The Future of English Rugby | Rugby Pod

[@owenbrash1750]

The biggest problem in player development in the UK was on show with the flippant comments made during this video, the Idea that its acceptable that a player will have to basically go to a public school or accept they're not going anywhere in rugby is archaic and is the exact reason why england are behind the southern hemisphere and many northern hemisphere countries in player developmemt

[@tyronematthews7480]

It's a shame that we still do not recognise that the pathway for non-public school boys and for all girls is broken. We recognise that it's a late-development sport, but no open trials anywhere. No formal club scouting programme. No formal scouts, except 1 at Harlequins. Speak to Grassroots people, and we do not believe that the pathway works adequately. RFU sacked Fletch and Rusty when they were doing a great job at age grade level. Mr.Mapletoft is a great guy, but the RFU are still messing it all up.....

[@davidholgate123]

The pathway from state schools for most of our main sports is practically non-existent but that's a government caused issue, although I do feel sporting bodies could do more to help... There's no doubt though, that government policy in state schools over sport in general is a massive negative for UK sport.

[@mhoppy6639]

This. This. And this. I’ve been banging on about this for ages in comments and it feels like calling into the dark😂 “Not everybody can afford to [go to private school]”. Which is actually the vast vast majority of kids. I played rugby at my comp but it doesn’t seem to happen to the same extent anymore or at least with the same ability in the schools to ID talent. I hope the RFU can back up this stuff they’re talking about with some decent investment and also commitment. Secondly the relationship with the clubs and national teams needs another look.

[@tomtrousers]

@@davidholgate123 can't help agreeing with you here but I also can't see how even a well funded state school can compete financially with a private school and the resources they seem to be able to throw at a small group of students. The ACE college system seems good but, as Mapletoft says, each club has maybe a couple of college links but many more private school partnerships. There is no doubt that huge amounts of talent is simply never being identified or exposed to rugby as an opportunity and many that are seem to be snapped up by the private schools on scholarships thus compounding the issue.

[@nealweightman3086]

@@tomtrousersdo they still hold county trials at school boy levels

[@glennaston2412]

I guess you can say it’s a government issue but state schools generally just don’t bother with any real inter school competitive sports programs. Some schools do a good job but that is entirely down to the head teacher and / or the games staff. The government or local authorities could mandate that schools take part in such programs but it doesn’t happen at the moment. Interestingly, in our area ( Essex / Herts) the best schools academically are also most often the best at sports. At club level there’s no formal pathway whatsoever for kids to progress into county / academy level rugby; it’s entirely down to the individual coaches, some bother, some don’t.

[@tesstickle1963]

Unless i went to RGS or John Hampden(both grammar schools)not a single state school played Rugby in my area growing up, not even one PE lesson was rugby at my school in 4yrs. School is about learning, every term or year you study a different topic yet in PE was the same for me, 4yrs of football(dry day) or basketball(wet day in the hall) State schools are always quick to praise or talk about ex-student who went on to great things in sport yet they did bugger all for them in regard to teaching them that actual sport. Growing up i despised grammar schools, but it was jealousy. If i have kids i think id do all i could to get them there or even go private. Great pod! Rory

[@mhoppy6639]

@@tesstickle1963 we alternated rugby /football with basketball but that was a looong time ago (I finished A levels in1991) it was beginning to wither on the vine even then. A shame.

[@carpusbarsum]

We were in a rugby league town but the PE teachers were from all over and didn't know the rules and wouldn't learn so we just played soccer at school. We still produced a couple of top RL players beacuse the local amateur clubs were strong...but they missed out on loads of kids who would have been good at rugby but ended up playing for Preston North End reserves instead.

[@Zeeshan-ep1og]

I've lived in a small town of 3000 in S.W France for 30 years and you can't imagine how many people play rugby starting from 6 yrs old you're almost not part of the community if your children aren't part of the club

[@tyronematthews7480]

We are also talking about size again!! Look at France and New Zealand, if you are good enough you are good enough, not how big you are!

[@06alepea1]

The France u20s are enormous. Most of them have 10+ Top14 caps.

[@dgoodall]

What are you talking about? france and New Zealand have huge packs especially front row!

[@aidanmasterson50]

@@06alepea1true! Englands also.

[@wot4922]

Facts. We see that in SA as well.

[@truthbetold8233]

France chooses every gigantic lock that's available to them. NZ fielded two 140kg props... They have two 1.9something centers, reliably

[@brianbarbarich1401]

Rugby is so strong at school boy level in South Africa. Private and public schools provide a continuous stream of talent.

[@davidwalker2402]

It’s also laden with drugs with schools players being banned on a regular basis.

[@MeiA-h9r]

Are you accusing minors of taking drugs??? Are you taking sir?? How would you know??🤔🤔🤔

[@ziyaadhjulius2645]

@@davidwalker2402 Hey when your country follows SA and actually test heavily for such things due to the money and prestige involved in SA school boy rugby only then do you have the right to point fingers. No other country does this at school boy level yet everyone throwing stones.

[@brianbarbarich1401]

It is found amongst schoolboys and schoolgirls worldwide, and amongst amateur and professional sports people worldwide. One reason why schoolboys in South Africa make the headlines could be because of our testing protocols in place. Could be some other countries do not follow strict testing protocols, and schoolboys slip through the net and go undetected. I doubt it that doping usage is only amongst South African schoolboys, and no other schoolboys worldwide are associated with doping.

[@wot4922]

One can't tell one what works for us if one doesn't want to listen, unfortunately. You keep living in your little bubble​@@davidwalker2402

[@arnodk2852]

Seeing as you guys were talking about it, that is pretty much the reason why teams like NZ and SA are dominating, rugby isn't just a private school sport in those countries.

[@colinrice6580]

Born 78 proper working class state school in east London and i can tell you Rugby was played Zero times weren't even mentioned in our school. Why i dont know, we had some big guys in our school as well that went with basketball instead.

[@MeiA-h9r]

As A South African - we can’t stroke ourselves because we having this period of success and tell the world that we have it correct cos we don’t We’re lucky that the rest of the world have not streamlined their resources to rugby development yet like England could be doing in the same way that it does with football. Here at South Africa still need to do a better job in fixing the infrastructure where we have a large talent pool at youth level but not enough professional teams to retain all of them. It’s backwards and even our women’s game and the infrastructure there is still in its infancy and way behind to England. We still need to do more - especially in the Amatuer level of the development

[@OscarOSullivan]

As a Munster and Ireland supporter I think South Africa and Ireland got a lot right with professional club rugby. Using long established provincial teams.

[@TP1988]

Such a shame the As game is on Premier Sports instead of streaming on KZbin or something

[@Exostars77-A]

When post- Apartheid South Africa decided to create access to the Sprinkboks from African and non-white communities with established pathways, the British press - with one or two notable exceptions, were up in arms about it. Look at South Africa since, and currently, back-to-back world champs with a big number of non-white players. England need a similar programme for inner City kids. You have your own Kolbie and Williams, there in comprehensive and Inner City schools. If you only showed the organisation and commitment to find and develop them.

[@Benboy1980]

Spot on!! Totally agree. We have a huge wealth of untapped talent int he Uk

[@RD-jb3vi]

They won’t because the tog dogs smirk at state schools as it’s for posh boys I’m afraid

[@daradare1856]

These teams all have feeder schools whether it’s Wellington College,Sedbregh,Harrow,Dulwich,Trinity,Kirkham , St. Joseph’s,Radley and etc. Most of the time if you do not attend these schools an all boys grammar school with a rugby history. It’s unlikely academies coming looking for you. Let’s not even get started on how much talent is missed up north

[@stuartnorman8733]

My son Has been playing for his club from age 5-15 Nepotism is ruining kids rugby So many kids have come and gone because the coaches kid’s always play and are usually captain as well Listened to the other parents say the same at their clubs

[@johnhanson5943]

If he could coach England seniors? Perhaps, they win more? A Bok supporter first and Eng second. Eng under 20’s played with imagination, ambition, freedom and a positive mind-set. They served their World Cup success.

[@AJP-kf7wq]

if a kids family cant afford boots, gumshield etc, how can they get to games? its not just financial though, being able to get your kid to club training and games isn't always possible from a time perspective, this is why state schools need to have a league in each area where kids can stay at school or get to games via school, that may level the playing field a little, but at least there would be an opportunity to be spotted by clubs, local and professional to help with their development. When i was at school, Milton Keynes had a school league, with all schools fielding teams, now, they cant fill two teams from all of the schools combined.

[@davidstrand9106]

I did go to a rugby only state school back in the 1970s. That school had its playing field built on for expansion. So, no more field sports?

[@marcdaniels9079]

Or sold for housing to line the coffers of the school in general

[@nickc4033]

@@marcdaniels9079 if it was a state school, they wouldn't have seen the cash - it would have gone straight back in to the government's coffers

[@pheasantplucker6117]

Arendse and Kolbi are two of best small players in the world. Why because of their pure speed. Which the boks have built their game around.

[@OscarOSullivan]

As a small player myself having a smaller and shorter profile makes you harder to tackle.

[@marcdaniels9079]

In the case of Kolbe he is also freakishly strong and both have electric footwork. However neither of them can do what Jonah did because they are half the size. Also SA only just started to use their backs in the last few years.

[@jonny-Arborist]

Pains me to say this, I hope Japan give England a proper tune up next weekend. Maybe then the RFU will get rid of that ridiculous appointment that is Steve Borthwick. The man is dragging England backwards. Poor coach, Poor tactics and zero self ownership. If he stays, Italy will beat England in the 6N.s and we will be winless. They whole coaching set up needs replacing, while we’re at it, get rid of that un flushable turd Bill Sweeney!!!!

[@WayneMorgan-u9p]

Dont be so pessimistic, you have an abundant wealth of talent in England which just needs tweeking. Eng will beat Scotland at twickers and will comfortably put 30 plus on Italy and the Welsh in Cardiff. To claim they will lose to Italy is just silly. Be greatful that unlike us Welsh, you wont be the whipping boys for the next 3 or 4 years. Get real mate, England have great players, its just a question of time.

[@jonny-Arborist]

@ Wayne, I agree with you in part mate, my frustration is evident. My Frustration, England haven’t moved on from Eddie jones, we’ve appointed a jones mark 2 who is completely out of his depth. I feel for you lads too, it’ll be tough against the wallabies this Arvo. I’ve been a regular visitor to Cardiff from Cardiff Arms park onwards. Awesome Rugby fans, Awesome craic win or lose. Go well today 🏉✊

[@marcdaniels9079]

@@jonny-Arborist They really have moved on in many ways. The problem now is the defensive system which was Jones’ baby doesn’t work for us as eloquently described by Will Greenwood. So we leak tries and knacker our players for good measure.

[@10gimp39]

Realistically when did a academy coach go to look at a kid at club or state school Their time is limited so the best use of that time is going to watch private school games And until more funding is put into scouting talent so many kids will slip through the net

[@anthonywebb4484]

Great for England RUgby

[@naughtiusmaximus5057]

You could throw all the money in the world overnight at state schools, but why would they - and young people - invest in a game they know little about, especially if they already have established, popular sports in their schools. Have any of the recent test matches been widely available to watch or even advertised on mainstream TV?

[@davidkelly499]

Rugby just isn't that popular in England (even less so up here in Scotland). That's the first thing that needs to be worked on, push the great things about rugby and get kids watching it. When you get that then you will get them to play it.

[@iallso1]

Here in New Zealand, the pathway is through the High School/College system. I just had a look at 42 players who are either in the current AB squad, or would probably be if they weren't injured or overseas. They attended 28 different High Schools/Colleges. Some of the schools will have fees to attend and some offer scholarships for kids with sporting potential, but Fletcher Newell studied a Rangiora which would be a Comprehensive School in the UK, and is in a provincial township. If a player is good enough, they will get developed and will have opportunities.

[@williammcdermid2892]

Rough diamonds from state schools, it's this bigotry n snobbishness that keeps state schools away from rugby

[@mhoppy6639]

I noticed that. It’s unfortunate that there are almost certainly many many kids with the ability to be stars going unnoticed in state school. People talk about the size of the player pool in England but are blind to the immense potential that’s sitting there overlooked.

[@TP1988]

I imagine he probably more means that prospects from private schools have had access to amazing coaching and facilities which others may not, rather than anything classist. But I agree it’s an unfortunate thing to say, not least as that attitude is still a problem in English rugby and words matter from these people

[@johnmitchell2269]

More prejudice than anything else.

[@dulls8475]

It is the other way round. Comprehensive schools would not want to play Rugby as it is seen as a non lefty woke sport.

[@Tarzanonspeed]

Guys he’s not being bigoted. They’re talking about potentially talented people who haven’t grown up playing rugby every week like you do in private schools. Physical or skill diamonds to make into good rugby players.

[@grahamriley8124]

Is there a 12 in this generational talent? Because how much do we need a 12!

[@julilu423]

Olly Hartley is probs the main hope at 12 - can honestly maybe see them turning to some of the talent in rugby league as well but that would require the RFU being able to spend money.

[@pietsmit5587]

Plus a 1 and 3

[@Whoknows-zu2eb]

Sean Kerr. Was great in the u20s World Cup, but he's more of a play maker than a direct runner.

[@mrm1884]

So basically you want to do what south africa rugby is doing. If you look at this current team of players, they are from different places in south africa (about 40 % of them outside top rugby schools). Now the competition is so high that even if you think going to a good rugby will make your chances better will not because they are also scouts outside the prestige schooling. Talents do not come from money.

[@thecuttingsark5094]

PE teacher here. Went to private school, taught PE in state school, have coached rugby in a private school. The quality of coaching in a private school is actually worse. The coaches are not PE professionals. Private schools however, play sport whereas state school PE does not have the competitive element or anywhere near the number of hours of participation.

[@trimad6128]

It’s a lot to do with the lack sport curriculum in state schools where past governments have focused more education than the sports field which is ridiculous in my opinion

[@OscarOSullivan]

Or selling off playing fields.

[@RobSmall-c8d]

Rough Diamonds!! Is that all Comprehensive schools are producing? Come on. Sounds like a Private School comment.

[@tesstickle1963]

Somebody show Borthwick this please😂

[@nojosm]

Do we look at other sports ? top ten sprinters in the country, basketball players, rugby league in the north of the uk Etc etc ?

[@andreemurray7039]

School rugby is slowing down club rugby membership is down my son packed it in because he hardly got any game time and England aren't worth the ticketprice anymore

[@andrewturner5449]

England A whats the point. We keep hearing about how many good England players we have,were the evidence,when was the last time England won a game well.Proof is in results not podcast words.Time for English RFU to get rid of this stupid rule about having to play in England.Take note from English football,you play in better league you become better player.England rugy fans need to start protesting about the state of the England team,we deserve better .

[@clayton8944]

Why are England not using these Autumn Internationals to build now for the Six Nations/World Cup ? , why are we still selecting the likes of George,Cowan-Dickie,Cole,Genge,Itoje,Isiekwe,Dombrandt,Spencer,Ford,Slade,Stewart,who are past their best or just not consistently good enough . When we have the likes of Sela-Fasogbon-Oghre-Blamire-Tizard-Batley-Willis-Hill-Pearson in the forwards and Porter-McParland-Smith-Atkinson-Beard-Anyanwu-Atkinson-Ibitoye-Elliot and Hodge to name a FEW who are in form in the premiership not being given a chance .

[@brizzleb-n2r]

Money

[@davidboyle1193]

Borthwick out now

[@nsd_respect]

Borthwick in now

[@davidboyle1193]

@nsd_respect why

[@mcc5901]

The A’s play running, attacking rugby. They have spark. They have what the first team is lacking and what all the southern hemisphere sides have always displayed. The problem with England is that the moment the A’s get into the top team such ambitions and desire to play running, attacking rugby, this will be coached out of them. It has happened before and seems the English way, I’m afraid. I can’t countenance the idea of playing rugby and not running the ball as often as possible and avoid kicking the ball away to only allow the opposition to run it at you. It seems such basics

[@normanbarrett1307]

If you are someone like me that supports any team playing against England, even the Wallabies, you need to prepare yourself for disappointing results to become more frequent.

[@loftyboi]

Off topic but the match last night… did NZ not want to win? Why go for posts when losing and less than 10mins on the clock. Strange decisions…

[@PhilipDaniel-cg3qw]

Good Discussion! It looked to me that the SA tries were mostly down to simple bad tackling. Covering flanker missed the SA scrum half. Dreadful. Stewart missed a few tackles. Charge down error. Colbe cross kick. Even if you get out jumped you should nail the catcher and drop him. At that level it’s fatal. SA exploited it and cut holes through England. Thus defeat…..

[@professorX1983]

Would to see someone tell Kolbe and Arendse they are not big enough

[@marcdaniels9079]

They are the EXCEPTIONS along with DMac and DuPont but all of these players are genetic freaks for their size.

[@RugbyGuru-b8f]

There are 5 reason for England's nonperformance: 1. No proper grassroots system in place. 2. Premiership rugby has regressed. 3. There are no proper tight 5s talent. 4. A management and coaching team in in disarray. 5. Very inexperienced coach with a chip on his shoulder. Appoint Michael Cheika NOW!

[@Hucksss_92]

He completely skipped past the question about state school participation, gave no tangible solutions and Goodey didn't press him on it - instead just said "yeah great that there's plans in place"... There isn't!!!

[@kevinbaxter7390]

Thee World Class Facilities access to A Wealth of Resources! Sports Science. Nutritional Science.Physiological Expertise. Actual Facilities. Yet 2003 we have literally stood still ,odd six Nations. Management and actually same to be said about English 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 football management,so so afraid to bed in new players ,zero experience,but know management imo want there possible mates to limp towards 50/80/100 Caps 🧢. Should not be relying on Cole .

[@stephenmcauley131]

Tom Shanklin says

[@BoksToBusiness]

Watching England kick away possession feels like Elon Musk making big moves with Twitter/X-sometimes it works brilliantly, other times… not so much. The reports of Musk's demise have been greatly exaggerated, like we've seen. He brought Tesla back from the brink, let's hope the same is true for England and Steve Borthwick!

[@mikeyt4243]

Why is it that all that under 20 talent you discussed isn’t being fast tracked into the National side. We hang on way too long to guys like Cole, Marler, Ford, Daly, even Genge and George (great players but..) If we were in France I suspect many of these players would already be cutting their teeth in the National team. Our problem is we are obsessed with winning ‘this week’ instead of winning RWC 2027…. Ultra conservative short sighted attitude.

[@janhbhugo5085]

Rugby needs at least 2 Captains Call Coupons ! I know the RFU will hate it but rugby needs to move on and level the playing field !

[@dulls8475]

Winning the under 20 world cup will not help England one bit. That team will be dispersed to the clubs where they will become average to good club players . They will be played out of position, fight for game time against foreign players from SA, NZ, Scotland and Wales. Oh and I forgot to add that if they are really good they will play in France due to our own goals right up their with the head protocols which will see less parents letting their kids play. So the future is not bright and i hope i am wrong.

[@davewolfy2906]

What you muppets have no idea of - how important is rugby outside of professional sport. Remember, life.

[@timtam6442]

If your kid is an elite player at 16 and goes to a state school with no rugby, then they are being let down by their parents. There’s not an independent school in the country who will ignore genuine talent and provide a 6th form place at a massively subsidised rate.

[@andyevans2000]

😂

[@bedtimewithben5802]

First

[@Jack-qv5ru]

Tap into underprivileged areas and schools instead of the same old pools of talent. some of these kids would benefit so much from the discipline and camaraderie that they might be lacking. I genuinely believe rugby would benefit in the long run.

[@BruceMacgregorCampbell]

Soccer can be played on a tarmacked playground while rugby needs a grass pitch - When state schools had to sell off their grassed spaces to survive, rugby had not a hope in hell. Blame your government.

[@mikeyt4243]

How patronising to suggest that non public school boys are « rough diamonds »!

[@williammcdermid2892]

Rough diamonds from state schools, it's this bigotry n snobbishness that keeps state schools away from rugby

[@armanrazaknazir5352]

They're stuck in this weird archaic private school way of thinking that every state school boy dreams of getting a scholarship to private school

[@carpusbarsum]

@@armanrazaknazir5352 Exactly. And pretty much everyone they know sends their kids to private school and it just seems normal. Mark Mapletoft says "not everyone can go to private school". Well actually only 7%😂.