What Is Going On At England?! | Rugby Pod Dissect Drama

[@73BigMC]

Dan Biggar makes all the difference to the Pod. Measured and intelligent.

[@davidkelly790]

He's a brilliant addition. It makes a difference that he still plays as that gives him a different insight to Andy and Jim. It can depend on your age but it some people might find him easier to relate to? Either way, it's a good trio.

[@alistairhowes9805]

I'm listening again cuz of bigs, great shout

[@Camcolito]

Seriously? He talks a lot of shite if you ask me.

[@davidbroadley2983]

Ha ha ha ha. An opinion that is best not shared.

[@MrAgbxl]

He's such a bore who drones on about the south of France at any given opportunity

[@RUGGARUGBY]

So glad this pod is back. Missed hearing the views from each one of these pundits ✅ Dan Biggar adds so much to the pod. love from South Africa

[@EnglishVeteran]

For a a long as I have played Rugby and since, there Is always the feeling that THE RFU are at the core of problems within England Rugby.

[@adamvanderriet9669]

It was pretty much the same with SA Rugby, until Rassie - it took the absolute collapse of the Springboks under Allister Coetzee a couple of years back for them to have no choice but to get their dirty paws out of the running of the game itself, giving Rassie and his staff the free reign to start fixing things. And the results speak for themselves 🤘

[@EnglishVeteran]

@@adamvanderriet9669 Thanks for that. I hope we can eventually do the same 🤞🤞, but I am not hopeful. The RFU force us to sing a Foreign Anthem!! The British Union Anthem! We are English not British!!! FYI, the British occupied England in May 1707! We hate them as much as you do!!

[@MartinFromIowa]

@@EnglishVeteranwould the English anthem be Jerusalem like at the cricket?

[@EnglishVeteran]

@@MartinFromIowa yes it is. But the English Cricket Board used to play Jerusalem but recently were playing the British Union Anthem in the Test Matches vs Sri Lanka

[@carlscholtz7842]

@@EnglishVeteranI reckon that if the RFU start chasing someone with a big profile like Farrell as head coach, they might be able to instigate some change. Whereas Steve I think might be a bit of a yes man. Only way to build player depth, is to let some of the big name players go play abroad and have their big salaries covered by foreign clubs, which will open space for all the talent coming from under 20’s to get some proper game time in the Prem clubs. There’s so much talent in the Eng under 20’s that seem to disappear through lack of exposure to 1st team rugby

[@Zarzu-yx1kw]

This is a perfect combo of Goodey, Big Jim and Biggar.

[@user-zy5eb1sc5q]

'Biggs'

[@W0nderer]

When Rassie Erasmus took over at Boks, Mzwandile Stick was from the previous coaching squad and was expected to leave. But Rassie retained him and said he had good ideas. Then he brought in Jones and various other coaches. After the world cup he brought in Brown And Flannery. And as Chasing the Sun shows, these guys have a voice in the coaching team. Even for the players, Rassie says the number of test caps are irrelevant, if you have a good rugby point, make it. Borthwick and Razer could learn from this.

[@colettefleming6858]

That would be brilliant if Felix Jones ends up joining Ireland.☘️✨️

[@jonathandavis8599]

they could use someone there that got past a QF.

[@johncannon3411]

its nailed on he goes to Ireland, probably as Andy Farrells replacement, congrats to the Irish on nabbing both Aled an Felix, they have stiched us up a kipper

[@SmcdMcd-d2k]

@@jonathandavis8599 didn’t Dan just beat the world champions again in their own backyard

[@nigel8484]

​@@SmcdMcd-d2k Clearly it's not about a sneaky dropgoal. The actual goal is to get to a final.

[@SmcdMcd-d2k]

@@nigel8484 a sneaky drop go what is wrong with you like this is a level of defence that only children behaviours they lost to Ireland again I don’t really see what so hard to understand and also yeah the goal of course is a world championship but also there’s other goals in those four years and also it’s also a goal of the team to be testing negative for doping which the boks fail every single year. Oh and by the way they couldn’t even score one try against Ireland in their own backyard not exactly world champion behaviour

[@ProffessorJamesMoriarty]

When FJ speaks Rassie listens, When Deon David's speaks Rassie listens, when Mzwandile speaks Rassie listens, he's exited entitlement as a coach shows you how a collaboration of ideas works together.

[@brynjones3530]

Probably poor logic to assume that because SB is having the same turnover that EJ had that SB must be the problem now. Look for what's consistent! The RFU

[@IverKnackerov]

Nope. Losing 1 coach is unfortunate. Losing 2 is careless. If they enjoyed working for SB, the RFU wouldn’t be an issue.

[@brynjones3530]

@@IverKnackerov have you never had a job where you like your manager but hate your company?

[@DerekChaplin-mu1gc]

Not sure it's a work ethic issue with FJ. As per Rassie, no one works harder than Felix, amazing analysis etc etc. Me thinks it's my way or hiway with SB. Very sad for England rugby!!

[@SmcdMcd-d2k]

It’s wild if his work ethic is being questioned. I wouldn’t believe that for a second

[@06alepea1]

So why did Aled Walters agree to join England?

[@W0nderer]

​​@@06alepea1it's tough at the Boks from a work intensity perspective. Jones Walters and Nienaber all needed a break.😢

[@LordDuke-v7e]

Love this Pod. Class banter. Love from SA.

[@neoserve8656]

With Bigs joining Jim and Goode at the Pod, it can only become Bigger!

[@samuelbemister2247]

I would love the RFU to study what happened in the cricket to see if they can learn anything. England Cricket went from absolutely woeful side where tentativeness and fear seemed to surround the whole camp, to one where confidence and fun and happiness playing the game now seems entrenched. They don't always win but you can't argue they aren't in a massively improved situation.

[@Gilescowdemdem]

Sinfield is a legend and clearly has the respect of the team, HOWEVER, when he did have a more core role across the defence it did not work, we all saw that, so I'm not sure why we're rehashing this conversation. Maybe he's now learnt the system Felix brought in but I also think it's important to have people with fresh ideas to continously evolve the style of play. Keep Sinfield as an inspirational leader, if he wants to stay, but no way should he take over defence again

[@StanWilks]

Was he our defense coach during WC23? We only conceded nine tries. Considering that and how we finished third, I personally think he did a good job. But maybe you're right. Inspiration? He's got that in spades. A new direction needed for defense.

[@AZJZ97]

@@StanWilksEngland’s plan in the RWC was very simple though. It was built around defence and kick chase. With how we saw England evolve in the second half of the 6N to the summer tour, I don’t know if KS is the best option.

[@thesearhub2023]

Great to see you guys back again👍

[@StevenBenjaminAuthor]

Just a correction, cos you guys were saying Felix is one of the best defensive coaches... but at the Boks he was not the defensive coach, he started as a man manager and opposition analyst. Jacques Nienaber laid the foundations of the defensive system - thats his main area of focus

[@romainviry3185]

AS a french I'm telling ya that Shaun Edwards is getting his french passport very soon, we're not allowing him to leave ;) He's got good money, a great environment and he likes the players (and back). Shaun is ours now ^^

[@PatrickKelly-lz3pv]

As soon as he gets tired of eating frogs legs and craves a Sunday Roast he will be back.

[@TheDdvd1]

Edwards is an absolute legend .. hope he leaves france ASAP.. 😂😂

[@timtam6442]

SE was born on the wrong side of the tracks for the snobbish RFU.

[@brynjones3530]

@@romainviry3185 aye till wales come calling again

[@romainviry3185]

@@PatrickKelly-lz3pv he has probably tried and enjoyed lemme tell you ^^ basically chicken wings but smaller. His contract is unbreakable til the next world cup. Then his children will not want to leave ever. So, no really, find yourself another lad and good luck with that mate. See you in Twinckenham (my bad it's Allianz now) next spring ;)

[@benhartley2280]

Biggs has been a hell of an addition. Love hearing him

[@Farron6]

Well Aled Walters was at Leicester wasn't he with Borthwick so they already knew each other. Jones and Walters worked together so the latter would have let him know precisely what the crack was with Borthwick and how he is and what he expects. The only factor what is a key change is the RFU, the old boys club yet again ruining the game in the country is where I'd point the blame.

[@W0nderer]

Come on Jimbo, can't abandon the Boks now. Best team in the world.

[@BertFlashman]

I swear Andy Goode chats absolute waffle. Felix Jones has never been touted as one of the worlds best defence coaches. Perhaps he could achieve that title but he was the attack coach for Ireland.

[@davidpeters3857]

Totally agree,he also seems to have Eddie on the brain

[@douglasdejager8450]

Biggar is a legend. From a Bok fan

[@PhillipAlcock]

Apart from the pre-kick routine he used to go through 😂

[@douglasdejager8450]

​@@PhillipAlcock you mean the macarina? 😅😂🎉

[@IverKnackerov]

Losing 1 coach is unfortunate. Losing 2 is careless. Buck stops with SB ….blaming the RFU is just scapegoating

[@SolarMumuns]

How is it careless? SB didn't do anything

[@jack-xz7px]

Welcome back guys …great pod and Biggsy a great addition ❤

[@garygavin857]

Borthwick is a dour workaholic, so great for Eddy. Lets not rubbish Steve for being a focused man. But its a team game & some people are the glue. The vibe , that human heart. Sean Edwards is a rugby person through & through. Can Borthwick adapt his role to accommodate Sean is the question. I still think England need a front man. These problems were predictable.

[@kwaailight]

If the management style chases quality personnel away, what good is spending oodles of money to put another quality defence coach into the same situation?

[@philipboothroyd1416]

To be honest I think this is inflating the issue above and beyond what the situation merits. At least in the case of Aled Walters, he had been working for Borthwick for 3 years at Tigers before opting to join him at England so knew exactly what he was like when taking the job (ditto Wigglesworth and Sinfield). And actually 4 years is a decent run, not a sign Borthwick can't hold on to a coach. I struggle to believe Felix doesn't like Borthwick's work ethic, far more likely that he sees Sinfield's decision to stay affecting his role going forward - or just doesn't see eye to eye with Borthwick, which is a shame but going to happen sometimes.

[@johnhanson5943]

The public school types ruin most things - including rugby - even if they invented the game. In South Africa the game is a game of the people - and the snootiness was left out. This explains a lot of the appeal of the game and success in South Africa. My direct experience of growing up in both countries.

[@neilcarpenter2669]

Aled Walters had worked under Borthwick while at Leicester so his methods couldn't have come as a surprise while Felix Jones is supposedly a tremendously hard working coach so the narrative being put forward about Borthwick being a slave driver doesn't hold water in fact Jones's reasons for leaving don't make any sense at all, they might have had some validity in the past but they don't have much validity now. They are both good at their jobs and it's disappointing that they have chosen to leave however they aren't the only good coaches in their respective fields so it's up to the RFU to replace them with similar quality.

[@MrCravendish]

RFU has made it hard to work in England

[@kenrehill8775]

Everything is hard in England, not just rugby.

[@henrymilleruk100]

The double exit has been so painful as an England fan daring to dream after the later Eddie years.

[@lukeperks1915]

I like the idea of the Exeter defence coach to replace FJ. Already spent a season implementing a blitz defence with Slade and IFW. Seems the best man to pick up where they leave off.

[@SolarMumuns]

Makes sense actually

[@lukeperks1915]

@@SolarMumuns ahh so the RFU might give that option a miss if it’s a ‘makes sense’ option

[@wynanddewinnaar2217]

Felix coming back to South Africa 🎉

[@seamus9750]

In the present winning setup I doubt if there's a place for him...would like to see him as a provincial head coach in SA.

[@SmcdMcd-d2k]

@@seamus9750 I think the reason he went to England in the first place is because he wants to be closer to his home country so I wouldn’t be surprised if headed towards that direction

[@StaalBurgher0]

Very much doubt it

[@MosesMatsepane]

@@SmcdMcd-d2kYeah he sited that he missed his family and wanted to be closer to home, that’s why he headed back to Europe. He must join his home country.

[@SmcdMcd-d2k]

@@MosesMatsepane cited * and that’s what I have been saying

[@davidfife-nm7uy]

There was also good people under Eddie who loved his no bullshit attitude

[@davidpeters3857]

Lots ,Goodey seems to have Eddie on the brain at times

[@eltongood2474]

Big up Dan but a lot of waffle regards Aled & Felix leaving. Cmon gents, ears to the ground & get to the truth...

[@Tarrimaster]

My dream is for Felix to come back to the Boks and take over head coach with Rassie going back to Director of Rugby.

[@christopherburgin5881]

Biggs is a class act. England progress is good but limited. They should have beat the AB's best chance ever gone. Very disappointing.

[@CraighJonas]

Welcome back gents.🍻

[@petrusvanderMerwe-o9k]

a good coach should give sidekicks freedom

[@JonathanSmalley-x9w]

Felix Jones' arrival and dramatic improvement in our attacking game a coincidence?

[@timtam6442]

Borthwick used to work for the Optical division of Pilkington. He was in charge of talking their glass eyes to sleep

[@beau_geste]

I really thought this was going to be yet another boring talk-along. But it was good listening interlaced with good humour. I did a LOL from 8.53 to 9.03 on “the easy part of defence being tackling…”! I can’t get used to liking Dan Biggar. My default mode is to hate brilliant Welsh fly halves except when they are playing for the Lions!

[@jonathandavis8599]

"Top 3" ...lol maybe in the 6N yes.

[@SmcdMcd-d2k]

They clearly said top three financially, which is correct I’m pretty sure it’s Ireland France England in terms of financial stability or maybe France Ireland England. They didn’t say top three in rankings

[@barrysheridan9186]

Disappointing to hear England’s coaching is in turmoil. Not a surprise of course, it is always complex with England.

[@MelRussek]

Felix to ABs! He announced he was leaving right after a few beers in NZ.

[@johncannon3411]

always talking about Eddie.... ffs

[@davidpeters3857]

Exactly,every player I’ve listened to seemed to love Eddie

[@MrKelso85]

I love Dan and it’s hilarious because everyone hates him as a player

[@darrenleroux2034]

Where there is smoke there is fire, SB has definitely had a role to play in these coaches leaving……

[@user-nk1kp6ou9o]

Felix didn't state directly it was an unstable environment - he hasn't spoken publicly since leaving. "...... sources close to the Irishman claiming that was due to him being "unhappy with the unstable working environment"." Not refuting that is the reason, but it hasn't come from him definitively yet.

[@johannrugby3811]

No doubt Lee Radford from Northampton Saints should become England's new defence coach.

[@johnhanson5943]

Anybody can look good as defence coach of the Boks. It’s not the coaches, it’s the overall system / country / society / culture / school system.

[@murrayjohn8608]

How come Exeter Chiefs Omar Mouneimne didn't enter this conversation.

[@marlecmarine5393]

Get Dan Bigger into the England set up....If top men are leaving the England set up then Steve has to take responsibility for losing these important men and change himself to make top people want to work with England. The most important job before any head coach is to manage his people and create the best environment for them to thrive in.......

[@AD-zcvnt]

Suspect it's role commitments vs family in Dublin. That’s why he left SA, as she missed home & that's understandable. B & I Lions is likely & a rethink. Maybe SA again, as this part of the world has gone to shiz

[@elliotlee3845]

Has Big Jim had a tuning?

[@carlosl-f2433]

Felix will go to British Lions

[@Jack-qv5ru]

I still think Steve Borthwick is the man to take this England side to the next level.

[@janhbhugo5085]

England should have won at least one game in New Zealand ! You were the better team !

[@Bob-kk3hc]

Walters and Jones will both be in the Irish set up v soon

[@ConorOLeary-rl4bs]

I thought he left because he was made defensive coach once employed as it wasn’t the job he initially was given and wanted to

[@MiniMatthew]

I think it could be that Felix has more international experience than Steve so it could be that he felt aggrieved that he might actually know more but he isn't in charge. Know what I mean? Also I think you're being very harsh to Borthwick. Everybody thought it would essentially be box kicking under Steve but England look the best they have since 2019 under him... His performances speak for themselves for me.

[@sebclement6253]

I think Jones was only ever going to work with Eng if Aled was there. I think Aled left for family.

[@Formakiwi]

Eddie Jones gets a shitty rap from England now, but his tenure as head coach is still the most successful run they've had since 2002-03.

[@markcarey8178]

Give Shaun Edwards a call...

[@owenfarmer4197]

Sean won’t come back to England. Keeping a coach who doesn’t want to be there seems bonkers

[@MurrayLeckie]

All Blacks have never had a Coach that is a foreigner and that's not going to change!!

[@DavidPonting96]

Boys can you get the new captain of the prem champs on?? Furbs

[@omgim0nfire425]

I don't think it's Steve I think it's the board and likes of bill sweeney

[@hafidkouloun6405]

No big deal! Did South Africa drop in form because of FJ and AW have left them? No. FJ citing an "unstable work environnement" sounds outlandish. Didn't he know that before joining England?! Does he suddenly no longer rate Steve Borthwick as capable coach? May be appointing "low-key" assistant coaches would help more than these so-called "best" whatsover coaches.

[@malcolmvanhilten125]

Seems to me that the guy doesnt know how to lead people. Losing two incredible coaches is a real negative point on the boss. I doubt either coach were lazy as is the sub text in this chat. My guess is SB doesnt know what he really wants and is constantly changing the goals and objectives. Working long hours is not the same as working effectively. Eddy Jones has already proven that in this set up.

[@SolarMumuns]

SB led Leicester to prem title, England to a semi final, Sarries to success, Japan to beating SA. Reckon he knows a thing about leading people

[@1112-g1x]

rugby is a complicated game

[@mojophunk]

What did Dan say about the Rand 😅

[@lunga188]

You gents are not being entirely honest with yourselves about Steve. If Steve and Rassie are both married to the job, then how does Felix stay in South Africa for almost a decade and leave the England job inside 12 months? Making him stay is not wise, let him go on garden leave.

[@davidbroadley2983]

Was Borthwick a successful captain? So why is he going to be a successful coach?

[@MorAodhan]

It is the Eddie Jones circus 2.0.

[@JohannesJoubert-ms5sz]

South Africa...There are no better as Rassie ..Whe will for the next 10 years no 1 team in the world .

[@cceffect]

We need Rob Baxter at the helm - from a Saracens fan

[@andreemurray7039]

Great to see you guys back great show how about razors ex number 2??

[@matchfactoryman]

FFS he’s doing that pathetic lousy imitation of Borthwick again

[@optimadev1371]

Old style management, same as Eddie! It’s only rugby, learn to be a better manager/leader

[@Lezzyboy87]

Why do league players make such good union coaches?

[@aramanon]

Eddie loved throwing a hand grenade in and making boys uncomfortable but the amount of work being done and money spent doesn't match the talent being shown on the pitch. Winning should be fun shouldnt it? Why can't England do it for more than 5 minutes spells? Nothing fun about England rugby since about 2006

[@davesmith826]

Jones can't come back to the Boks - his defence systems would clash with Brown's attack systems! I think he goes to Leinster to replace Cullen as Director of Rugby OR takes on the head coach role of a tier one or high tier two national test side. He'll be a success whatever he does. He's the real deal.

[@admiralbenbow5083]

Shaun Edwards.

[@ryancheeseman4688]

Where you oaks been???

[@888young2]

Hi

[@Mojo16011973]

You need ROG

[@sachinbangaru737]

Defence pour quoi. im ded 💀

[@optimadev1371]

Borthwick is still managing in the 1980’s He needs to update his thinking, or he’ll just burn more coaches and ££ In commerce & industry manage complex issues, tasks and businesses without working so many hours, and expecting others to do the same. The world has changed, doing anything because Eddie Jones did it, is a recipe for failure

[@BS2Dos]

Playback at .5 speed for amusing drunken Rugby Pod.

[@robsargeant4737]

🍻

[@yancowles]

Ah, many talkings but nothing enlightening. Repeated expression of the phrase 'unstable working environment' but we can all do that in our heads if we want to.

[@ronanfurlong1362]

Has anyone mentioned the possibility of Felix Jones working out his notice period with Andy Farrell ..... at the Lions? Having said that, now that Simon Easterby is acting head coach for Ireland, we now need a defence coach for the AI's and 6N .... Who knows?

[@derickpetersen3967]

Make Felix head coach, call him back. England looking better already why take a step back?

[@SmcdMcd-d2k]

Felix wanted to leave . He obviously doesn’t want to stay

[@atoms-to-atoms]

Australia should grab him!

[@SmcdMcd-d2k]

@@atoms-to-atoms I’ve a feeling he wants to be closer to ireland that’s why he took the English job to begin with

[@AW12-W]

Eddie Jones MkII is exactly how I see it.

[@JackP-dz1sp]

Nice not to have Haskell on and cry baby Marler

[@Sbu_Phakathwayo]

Or maybe the coaches are not hard but the English folk are softer than usual? Ignorant statement on surface but it can't always be the same case

[@mariusmarais9750]

Can promise you all, Tony "ball" Brown and Jeremy "Irish Luck" Flannery must watch out, they can easily become beer alcoholics and fat on the weekly break away BRAAI with Rassie. 😂🙈 ( Felix "Happy" Jones is a solid guy and coach, highly structural and loved by the players, adds tons of value, can down a beer, .... pity he left England🥺 )

[@SmcdMcd-d2k]

Do you think a coach from Ireland doesn’t know how to drink beer? Don’t be so ridiculous. Also, there’s more than one irish lads on the boks coaching.., there’s 3 now

[@newmenewme5697]

​@@SmcdMcd-d2kYeah Rassie turned them all into world class coaches.

[@SmcdMcd-d2k]

@@newmenewme5697 am no because they were hired because they were great … and rassie only took over as coach this year

[@newmenewme5697]

@@SmcdMcd-d2k No doubt they are great. But it was rassie who made them who they are as coaches, in fact if it wasn't for rassie the would still be unknown because nobody else would have given them a chance.

[@SmcdMcd-d2k]

@@newmenewme5697 No one else will give them a chance oh my God did you get into an accident this morning and get brain damage? You did know their CVs before they went to South Africa. Also again Rosie only became a coach less than a year ago. He wasn’t to coach under these guys .

[@callumgowar]

Borthwick sounds like a doos!

[@AC-hu3xk]

Felix is not the best Deffence Coach ....JB from SA is the best.

[@extremesportsify]

1st

[@cornedenecker1636]

Tell me your life is fucking shite without telling me your life is fucking shite🙈