Should England Panic? | Rugby Pod Analyse England V Springboks

[@nicholaswoodward8191]

As a South african and Springbok fan I think England is currently a team with huge potential, certainly got the players. A bit of fine tuning and I think they could be right back up there.

[@dougsaunders8109]

I agree, I have enjoyed these Autumn Nations games more than any other games, bar World Cup semi against SA, in last 2 years. England we’re in the fight for these first two games bar Saturday when the Boks always looked like they were going to win after 60mins

[@randomlyfactual1943]

What is really frustrating about playing this England side is that somehow they get you into the kind of match they want to have. I don't know exactly how they do it, but it feels as if we couldn't execute any of our new fancy Tonyball type stuff. It sucks to play against and absolutely that is a compliment to the English team. I know their fans aren't loving the run of losses, but ALL of them could have been wins had one or two things simply went right on the day. A couple of lucky horseshoes fixed above some doors should do the trick 😅

[@mjribes]

Another South African here, and I 100% agree. England is only a few percent off being really dangerous. Things will click soon, and then they'll be real contenders.

[@th1886saka]

Other than Marcus Smith, possibly Earl at 8 at his best, would any English players start for South Africa

[@tombutcher3021]

@@mjribes England supporter and I agree. However our managers selections and backs attacks coach who has no history at this level, His selections of players who are out off from but favourites. the odd tactics of attack turning defensive. This must be regressive in approach. All our losses come down to Borthwick and selections, replacements and timings. Arm chair pundit so feel free to attack me........

[@henrymilleruk100]

Really like Jim’s first comment here. We currently don’t have the right to be expecting to topple some of these teams based on our team on paper. Just being England isn’t enough.

[@yeayou1221]

Ya honestly if you guys had beaten Aus I don’t think you’d be talking about any of this.

[@henrymilleruk100]

@ and it is completely fine for Australia to also have an excellent game that day too. All credit too them.

[@yeayou1221]

@@henrymilleruk100 100% that’s the best the wallabies have played in probably 2 years. They’ve found something and are looking dangerous on this Northern Tour. I also think England have had some sparks of brilliance and won’t be surprised if they shock Ireland and France next year.

[@davidmarsh5274]

Jim talks a great deal of good sense re England

[@Shandyboy8612]

Agreed it is a fair point, but its the soft tries we concede, if we cant beat SA and NZ at home when they have an off day it is concerning and Borthwick needs to be called out. If it wasnt for the genius off Smith it would be a lot worse.

[@CraigMinnie]

Guys you talk about England been ranked 7th .Thats where Sa were ranked when Rassie took over the springboks and it was a bleak time in our rugby history. The current England team are not far off from beating the top teams .They need to settle on what style of rugby they play , i thought the kicking game strategy worked well against the boks.Problem is are you going to swop and change with the fullback to play different styles .England need to be fixing the scrum its been a lot better lately, decide on a defensive system, and build a strong bench that has a impact .They definitely got the players to do this .Sa, nz, Ire all have a distinct style and they only change and adapt tactics if the opposition are stopping them from playing that way .

[@JasonPurll]

Stop bigging them up

[@CraigMinnie]

@JasonPurll I am a hardcore springbok for life . The boks won but were poor against England and Scotland. What game were you watching if you think we brutalized them.We never used our forwards enough , when we did we made ground all the time .I am not talking them up at all .

[@Gilan4983]

I don think Borthwick is nearly as innovative as Rassie, and certainly not as charismatic. It looks to me like we are trying to copy SAs game plan from the last cycle, that’s never going to win us a WC

[@johnnybravo8736]

@@JasonPurll Sounds like a Silverback talking 🙂

[@waynerockman1242]

That's why big Jim people will feel it's too early to call as to who will take the 2027 wcup because look at what the Ausies are doing in the Northern hemisphere

[@TeflonCraig]

For all the talk of South Africa's size and power, just remember, if Cheslin Kolbe was English he wouldn't get picked for being too small.

[@davesmith826]

SA have the smallest backs in world rugby. Their forwards are actually lighter than England's and New Zealand's. Skill, not size, determines the outcome.

[@migyman321]

@@davesmith826and strength

[@simonjeffs75]

​@@davesmith826the boks success is based on their bomb squad. They just have more international quality forwards than the other teams. There is no drop off in their play and this allows them to go for the full 80 and take advantage of other teams dropping off. The scotland game was a prime example.

[@Stvalgore89]

​@@davesmith826they know how to use their bodies in contact though and that goes a long way. You can look at faf as a prime example, short guy but he's so powerful in the contact. Pace and power are worth a lot more than size and weight

[@merciagysman1869]

Not true there are many small one’s playing for England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Marcus Smith,Femi,Danny Care during his time the list is long

[@sley39]

Listen to me...its Johan van Graan! Its between him & Cheika both is already in the RFU system on club level, but I think Van Graan is ur guy!

[@BertFlashman]

What has van gran roved I’ve Borthwick

[@Willhhoward]

His contract is up 2029, going to be expensive to buy out

[@schalkkymdell5941]

Best rugby podcast by a country mile. I can listen to it for hours.

[@JustinMulder1]

To be honest, coaching does make a huge difference. One of the reasons for SA strength is Rassie, when we had Rudolph Strauli we were rubbish with the same players that then went on to win the 2007 world cup with Jake White.

[@Hiltok]

Eddie Jones's Wallabies 2023 vs Joe Schmidt's Wallabies 2024. Chalk and cheese. The difference wasn't immediate. It has been built over the past five months. And it isn't all about the head coach, Schmidt himself, but also the quality of the assistants that Schmidt has drawn to him compared to EJ having no one with any track record wanting to work with him - EJ did have a good scrum coach but had him coaching the lineout instead.

[@mhoppy6639]

@@JustinMulder1 that’s a very very good point. And remember England lost 76-0 to aus not a huge time before 2003 win. I do think that borthwick just hasn’t quite got the insight and coaching nouse that Rassie a couple of others and yes even Eddie before he started believing his own press had. Whatever that X factor is Borthwick just hasn’t got it. Sorry Steve. I would like to see O’Gara have a crack at the England job. There is one more factor. I know it’s a cliché but you _do_ need that nucleus of 6-8 worldies in your team and honestly I not sure we’re quite there yet with this England team. That’s the other thing about gatland v1.0. He had a core of generational Welsh talent in his earlier squads. These guys are young with potential but I don’t see the same levels as before there. Great pod guys.

[@Wolf-hh4rv]

Ja we have had to endure terrible coaches for most of the last 30 years, Jake Nick Rassie good--the rest total BS, should have been ball boys

[@Afrosaxonn]

Steward was great!

[@peterp9918]

Completely agree about the lack of experience in the coaching team. Selection to be a national coach should be based on a track record of success. Wigglesworth may end up being a superb coach but what has he ever done to prove that the can coach attack at any level, let alone international. I agree that El-Abd's appointment looks sketchy on paper but I'm willing to give him time to introduce a new/updated system, but the fact that he's one of Borthwick's mates does raise the question of whether there's anyone in the camp who challenges Borthwick's views.

[@henrymilleruk100]

@@peterp9918 I agree for me Wiggy is the main change I’d like to see. He can stay but I think we need an attack coach with pedigree. And to be fair I feel like our strength and conditioning appointments have also been stop gap appointments. El-Abd had like 2 weeks to get going I’m prepared to give him more time.

[@johntaylor3448]

Great insight and honesty. Hard to disagree with anything they said.

[@PrimalBlue-l6o]

As an external England have just played NZ with a point to prove, Australia that is starting to jell, and SA that is trucking along seamlessly........and the scores are close. Keep things in perspective. England is there or thereabouts!

[@alistairhowes9805]

I've been coming back to the pod recently for the constructive, honest perspectives from you both and bigs. Love that you listed the best 8 teams in the world and just forget about the country of France

[@1095ByMattRickard]

Thanks, a great assessment of the game and current situation! ...Big Jim - please straighten that rugby photo. It's tampering with my OCD :)

[@evanh8749]

Now that you pointed it out... Can't stand that crooked picture 😅

[@1095ByMattRickard]

@@evanh8749 🤣

[@notenoughstones3873]

Englands record against the Top 4 teams over the years, except for Eddie’s first couple years as coach, show that they have not been up there with the best for a long time.

[@MaxPowerPT]

Very true, the Australia game should be the only worry - and they are improving leaps and bounds. I actually think that England over performed against the All Blacks in these 3 games - in a year or two probably it won’t be as tight. If they won one of these games the narrative would be very different.

[@andrewturner5449]

Jim is bang on.

[@Wolf-hh4rv]

SA here- England has a great Blits - but no sweepers, no scramble -- thats technical and then attitude

[@walterstevens8676]

I really enjoyed listening to this because it sounded a lot more logical and intellectual than any of the other ex-player podcasts. Often this one is a lot more jokey but I prefer the more serious conversation.

[@jupitorious7925]

Exactly with one thinking he's David Brent

[@randomlyfactual1943]

So you're saying it's a Goode podcast? I'll see myself out 🚪

[@walterstevens8676]

@randomlyfactual1943 the best Anglo-Scots product ever

[@ruanniemann1678]

Bok Supporter here, that team on Saturday was a few smart decisions away from beating us. It was a LOT closer than the scoreline suggests

[@tigerclarence1248]

Was talking to a good bok mate before the game and he said it be a close call I laughed at him and thought we get spanked , but he was right . The boks are going through a golden era at the moment just hope England catches up with the young talent coming through the ranks .

[@lonwabiso1]

It took the Boks 13 games to get the defence right. It feel like England is not playing together. It will come.

[@jacquessnyman8321]

Talking about succession planning. The Springboks have played 50 players at test level this year. Already getting players bedded in to go for number 3 in a row.

[@randomlyfactual1943]

Saturday it will be 51!! 😅

[@TP1988]

The lack of senior coaching experience is just bizarre. It’s weird. Who would pitch that at such a union? And who on earth would approve it? My God. And it’s a 180 from the initial team he put together, so clearly not what originally was the plan. Incredible.

[@kemuse1]

It's literally nothing to do with the coaching. The players aren't as good as SA or NZ, and probably just about the same as AUS

[@sambingham1196]

Borthwick hasn't got the minerals to lead a top-class coaching ticket. Otherwise, coaches would be staying.

[@rob.1]

Lancaster, Farrell, Rowntree, Catt were very inexperienced when England coaches, and they got the boot. I would have loved to see how those coaches got on later in their careers.... Maybe give them time. There isn't really any other option.

[@TP1988]

@ I don’t disagree, I’m not saying they have the players to mix it with SA or NZ or FR. But they also have picked a weirdly second rate or at least unproven set of coaches

[@Gilan4983]

When Eddie was sacked Sweeney promised us the best coaches, Borthwick just isn’t that. I doubt he can really succeed at the top level because he just isn’t innovative enough. Post WC he could have this team in any direction but we’re just following SAs old game plan. That’s never going to win stuff on a regular basis.

[@stjudetheobscure]

Why did Jones leave so suddenly and so soon? Anyone who’s left a large corporate suddenly or been fired, knows that it doesn’t come out of the blue. Borthwick, both by results and in person, appears to be struggling. You can’t keep mouthing platitudes when you’re on a losing streak. You have to address the issues in public, take responsibility (that’s why they pay you the big bucks), and explain (roughly), how you’re going to address the results. It seems evident that England’s weakness is in defence - and so we arrive back at the first question asked…

[@jamescooper9583]

Told to go and given a huge wedge and and handshake,then the job in Japan for again a huge amount

[@billbonnington7916]

I would disagree with one thing Goodey, Smith is brilliant the more the phases build, a fragmented backfield for him is like a birthday and Christmas all in one, and he excels, but we don't have any set plays from first or second phase in the way top teams do. We never looked like breaking a line from first phase in any of the three games. Jim, we expect England to be able to beat anyone at home. The players are good enough, the top Premiership teams play scintillating rugby as good as anywhere.

[@joshdnorris1994]

I think you've nailed it on the head there, I have no idea what Wigglesworth has done as attack coach as I don't see any purpose in what they're doing! If we can find a style to tire out defences then my god will Marcus be licking his lips!

[@davidpeters3857]

😂😂😜

[@clayton8944]

The top teams in the Premiership do play play scintillating rugby , but only because of the inform players , Oghre , Blamire , Iyogun , Opoku-Fordjour , Fasogbon , Tizard , Batley , T.Willis , Hill , Pearson , Porter , Anyanwu , Atkinson , Ibitoye and Hodge to name a few , why are these players not being selected ? .

[@davidpearn2484]

Well jimbo I'm putting 20 pound double on Australia to beat Scotland and Ireland 😉.

[@Gilan4983]

Although it hurts I can accept we are 7/8th in the world rankings. What I cannot accept is that the RFU and the coaches seem happy with that and want things to continue as they are. I’d prefer to follow the Aussies lead and get a new exciting young team together and start building for the RWC now

[@henrymilleruk100]

@@Gilan4983 I would argue in some ways - that is happening there are a lot of new players involved and clearly more young faces lined up on the horizon. Steve may be doing it a touch slower than media want but I do genuinely think that is happening.

[@Gilan4983]

@ maybe, but with the position we’re in now I’d just go for it. So many exciting young players coming up. Just start blooding the front rows and centres

[@nickg8571]

I was sat in a good mid high position behind one of the try lines and thing that really struck me time and time again was how quickly England became disorganised when play broke up. We just didn’t seem to be able to get reorganised and then were always scrambling to get back in some sort of structure. It is however a bit strange that the games immediately following the announcement of the enhanced EPS squad for only a handful of players results in such poor performances - wonder if there is underlying disharmony…….

[@janhbhugo5085]

Keep Steve ! He is good for all the other teams on a positive note!

[@Jofuish]

Watched the south african/nz coverage of our games. They are more positive about us than our own press. Feels like we are missing 10% but getting rid of Borthwick isn't the answer. Leicester were rough for a bit when he came in too

[@teachingvietnam1931]

Correct 👍🏼

[@clayton8944]

But how would they feel if it was the Boks or All Blacks performing as England are .

[@derrickozoemelam5058]

Do you know where I can watch rugby games live or on a stream I’m in the USA ?

[@walterstevens8676]

Correct. But perhaps it's easy to be positive and philosophical when it's not your team 😂

[@schnickeringhen]

@@clayton8944 I dunno if our ABs have really been THAT much better than England. I think you guys should still feel some positivity about how they're tracking - they have looked like a great side at times.

[@SHUTUPNOWW9360]

As a South African, the last 20 minutes, I didn't feel England were gonna do anything... especially when we went down to 14men...England got worse....and springboks defended well under pressure.....England sucked under pressure

[@atoms-to-atoms]

are you psychic boet?🤣

[@glaw5ter]

Australia started in a worse position than England but have dramatically turned it round. Why is that?????

[@Benboy1980]

Totally, we just didn’t step up. I think we were in the Bok 22 five or six times when they were a man down and we just stuffed it. They didn’t even ship it out wide!? Stupid errors at the line out and unforced errors. Hard to watch at times. The hardest part is that there were really good moments and it felt like a great contest at times, then we reverted to type. I don’t think it’s unfair to say we had an ‘opportunity’ to at least draw level in the last 20, but it wasn’t good enough

[@SHUTUPNOWW9360]

@@Benboy1980 yea

[@davos4268]

Agree, the Boks defence went up a gear

[@clayton8944]

As a fan , I don't expect the squad to be beating those ranked above us , especially with this coaching setup and their selection process . Why are we still selecting the likes of Cole , George , Cowan-Dickie , Genge , Stuart , Spencer , Slade , Ford , they may have all the experience yet they still lost . Why are we not using these Autumn internationals and the Six Nations to build for the future with inform younger players like Oghre , Blamire , Iyogun , Opoku-Fordjour , Fasogbon , Tizard , Batley , T.Willis , Hill , Pearson , Porter , Anyanwu , Atkinson , Ibitoye and Hodge to name just a few .

[@christopherwinters18]

Goodey looks broken...Stay strong mate.🍺🍺

[@jayfarthing]

Spot on views there. Definitely agree with Jim that us England fans need to manage expectations against the big sides we've played recently - dwelling on the fact we've lost so many games on the bounce when Australia aside they've been the top teams in the world isn't going to benefit anyone. Defence definitely looking the issue, I think Andy is spot on about the new defence coach. Losing Felix Jones is one thing, but replacing him with someone with so little pedigree is a shock, hadn't realised the replacement is the coach from a team in the bottom of the second division...

[@SeanLarkan]

Bear in mind that a lot of Bok fans, despite all the Rassie-love & hype, feel strongly that a few brilliant individual players & moments aside, this Bok team & coaching group have been disappointing to the extreme this year; repetitive avoidable handling errors, haphazard lineouts, avoidable penalties & cards aplenty, caught out defensively too often for comfort & that overall we’ve gone backwards, comparative to the ABs, France, Argentina & even the Aussies.

[@martinridgley6945]

Regardless of their coaching ability, picking the best 23 players would help. Alternatively, we look to the future and bring in a lot of our young talents - is Steve the man to do that? Would the supporters accept defeats if they could see where we were going?

[@barkerk100]

Who saw the England A/Aus A game? There were stand-out performances from: 1. Dingwell, who ran hard and regularly made ground post contact, and distributed very well. Straight back in the first team. 2. Porter, who was a very lively 9 that gave quick ball to his backs much more than we are used to; start with him and keep Spencer on the bench to close out. 3. The 19 year old Pollock who was the undoubted man of the match and, if England played Tom Willis at 8, the combination with Chandler Cunningham-South would add real bite and balance to the back row; 5. Curtis Langdon, the overlooked hooker with scrummaging bite and a great all round game. Start with Cowan-Dickie and finish with Curtis.

[@dulls8475]

Those England A players who are essentially our ex under 20s will become tired journeymen competing for game time against foreign imports in clubs that have no interest in supporting the England team. If they really excel l the French clubs will snap them up, and then they cant play for us because the RFU are the democrats of Rugby union. I bet you at some time in the near future Marcus will go to France for the big paydays. At the end of the day they have to set themselves up for life, not for England. Funnily enough we are missing Owen Farrell as the counter to Smith. Rather he came on than Ford.

[@garymorin4813]

​@@dulls8475 so what's your solution then. By the way Saints can put a very strong all England qualified team

[@dulls8475]

@@garymorin4813 My solution is only England eligible players play for the English clubs. Thats the start. The coach being able to tell the clubs where to play the England contracted players so they play in the spot they need for the England tea. It wont happen so i have no solution.

[@garymorin4813]

@@dulls8475 Thank god it won't happen, I happy to limit the number non eligible players, say 4 in the match day squad. The top players bring a lot of experience and skills to share.

[@dulls8475]

@@garymorin4813 I know it wont happen and England will stay a mid table team with occasional visits into the top 5. So players from abroad could be on the pitch making up nearly a third of the team on playday. If you note all the top teams dont have many if any non eligible players in there club or super 12 franchise. Look at NZ, Ireland and SA. Have no idea why you think the England club system is any good for the England team.

[@hippo5346]

During my playing days - albeit at a low level, I always believed that if you get to the final 20 mins , and the scores are close - winning or losing will be decided mainly by character and will to win . The fact that England keep losing tight games is a big worry . Either the players don't want it enough, or they haven't bought in to the coaching ethos . I suspect it's more to do with the latter !

[@jamesmallin7147]

The one thing I noticed is that very few are highlighting Marcus Smith liability on the high ball. Numerous times were targeted and found wanted.

[@Burninglash]

Appoint Felix Jones as your head coach . You already paying him. He has more experience at the top level.

[@SeanDitchfield]

Jim please straighten that picture, it’s doing my head in 😂

[@paddyanglais91]

That double charge down was schoolboy rugby.

[@Hiltok]

That came from slack reffing in the Prem where JvP (and other scrummies) have been getting away with sloppy handling at the base of rucks. When George asked about EE being offside, the ref relayed the TMO's response that he'd checked and the ball wasn't under the leg of the last man in the ruck so when JvP had his hands on it thinking he could take his time, it was effectively out before he even lifted the ball. Once that was explained, there were no further charge downs.

[@paddyanglais91]

@Hiltok interesting insight, cheers

[@JabulaniUK-me6eg]

From the Telegraph. Daniel Schofield On Sunday, statistician extraordinaire Russ Petty came up with a doozy: in the past 20 years, England have won just 27.3 per cent of their matches against teams who finished the year ranked in the top four. Steve Borthwick’s record is a pitiful one win in 10 - against Ireland in this year’s Six Nations - yet this is hardly bucking a trend.

[@ianeveratt7273]

Brilliant analysis , agree about Cheika as the person for the job

[@jeffreykgatitsoe627]

I must say that England is not too far from the top 7 but I love when Jim said that the players and the technical team need to be honest and upfront with each other when players and management aren't meeting expectations or aren't up to scratch. Rassie and his management team as well as players have a rip at each other when things aren't going well. England also needs to build player depth because importing players from other countries is clearly not working as much as people would like to think it is.

[@davidmarsh5274]

In terms of the gap between club and international rugby, as an England fan who lives in France I'd say that arguably three of the top four club teams in Europe are French (Leinster being the other).

[@MaxPowerPT]

100%, Top 14 on another level.

[@tonyjforder]

Agree that expectations have to be adjusted. There are 5 consistently better teams ahead of us right now - SA, NZ, France, Ireland, and Scotland. Beyond that we're no more than on a par with Argentina and Australia. We are where our performances deserve to be. From No 1 going into the 2019 World Cup to 7th now is depressing but it's the reality.

[@nicholasfallowfield4379]

I think a top director of rugby would help. They can provide some wise counsel, hold the coaches to account and importantly play the key role in recruiting subsequent coaches.

[@alexcunliffe3432]

I've no issue in saying that the top 4 are Sa, Nz, Ire & Fr, then it is around Scot, Arg, Aus and Eng. That is the way it is. Why nobody ever questions why the RFU rules out some of its strength in depth with the lunacy of not picking players based overseas.

[@TheCryptoSniper]

SA, FRA, NZ, ARG, IRE, SCO, AUS, ENG, thats the order for me. IRE were lucky to get the home win and would lose in Mendoza, less of a controversy than it sounds, IRE are fading a bit, AUS could be back forth soon too. SCO may be better than IRE this 6N's

[@marlecmarine5393]

Absolutely spot on England deserve a better coaching team. World class head coaches produce world class teams. The single biggest task job the head coach has is to create the environment for your coaching team to flourish, when your two top proven coaches walk away something is very wrong. Steve Borthwick is dedicated and hard working, but socially awkward, can barely speak to the press, he is dour and uninspiring not the qualities you want in your leadership. England won the the world cup in 2003 because Clive Woodward was the most open, forward thing and inventive coach in the world at the time. Rassie Erasmus turned the Boks around in a year, Joe Schmidt has done more or less the same with Australia, Steve has had two with no progress......

[@9Charcot]

Right on Goodie....Not a great fan of SB but IMHO he is not the biggest issue. The England players deserve proven, top level elite attack, defence, forwards, and skills coaches with winning credentials at International level. it inspires confidence and belief from the players. Appointing Joe El Abde is like appointing the local pub team coach director of rugby at a Premership club.

[@vjt2705]

As an Aussie I support your plan to get Cheika and wait for his boys club to rack 50 plus internationals - look at how many Waratahs got picked test after test on the back of winning super rugby in 2014 well past the Tahs glory days…..

[@paulwake7454]

They are not far off being an amazing team in my opinion, save this comment gents “we will win the six nations” 😊

[@pheasantplucker6117]

What that old chesnut

[@dougclark9921]

If they fix some things, this team feels like it can be a top-three in the world and a six-nation winner. If they don't, and I'm not sure they will, I can see us coming 6th in the 6N and sitting at 8th or 9th in the world.

[@schalkkymdell5941]

😮 I am thinking Scotland or France

[@mariuspieter]

You guys hit the nail on the head, let's not miss the obvious, if you don't have a world class defense coach, then don't be surprised if your defense is also, like your coach, less than world class

[@simonhague2674]

Agree with you boys, Borthwick needs to bring in an experienced guy into his team and I also think having a Captain that comes off at 60 mins when we are losing every game in the last 20 mins...

[@dannywimpey2879]

When you play a champion team, you need to be able to adapt during the game when your plan doesn't work. Experience will help that. Keep the faith

[@smithshaw1151]

England needs to return to the fundamentals. Player attitudes are a significant issue, with too many players overly focused on themselves.

[@skillsofWow]

Most coaches aim to enhance their chances of victory by choosing players who can best execute the timing, spacing, and running patterns of their systems and processes. Various sports and teams, each exhibiting different levels of athletic prowess, at all levels, will invest differing amounts of time operating within their strategies. However, in all closely contested games that truly count, the winner is consistently the team that demonstrates the greatest creativity when their systems are being overwhelmed by opponents. But, even when we know this, when significant losses happen we tend to pay attention to modifying the systems and the athletes involved, rather than tackling the root cause -the fact that when the player's systems are being overwhelmed they can't adapt to create more space and time to execute basic skills. Players are dependent on systems. By equipping players with the skills to break free from machine-mindedness, they can transcend from drawing their timing, spacing, and running lines from within their systems to drawing their timing, spacing, and lines of running from the dynamic relationships between each other. When players are good at this they can make it seem as though time has slowed down as they collectively execute intricate maneuvers they have never done before and create those moments of Wow that lead to greater success in tightly contested competitions. Performance transcends systems, and processes into relationships of connected, flowing humanity.

[@andreraubenheimer2430]

That comment about borthwick not having quite the amount of experience is true and also yes they play like a team with two year experience in coaching

[@ACDV_OKDISFINE]

Ai guys this is so sad....England's demise....but the Eng players still have this arrogant bravado. Thank you for the honesty. PS SA was playing at 60% capacity. Albert RSA

[@Barrackas]

Finally!! Another update on England. Its been to long!

[@mcc5901]

I would not say that the glaringly obvious problem is the defence. It has to improve but it is something England can easily fix. The bigger issue is ball carriers not breaking the gain line and not offloading along with a lack of flare and attack on the wings. Those are the real issues at hand and have been for quite some time, probably ever since Jonny May left. We started to see some brilliance with Ben Earl but even he has fizzled out or has probably been coached not to ‘go it alone’ England A certainly play a different rugby to the national team

[@andrewabrahams7900]

At 11:00 Jim made the point was made referencing mediocre opponents/bench...this is exactly why the conversations has been happening around getting the English in the URC and possibly South Africans out. It also shows why the New Zealanders and Australians has not looked the same Internationally immediate after we got booted out the Super Rugby franchise. I could be wrong though.

[@jeanm27]

Previous weeks everyone asked why Smith was replaced before the end of the game, but this past weekend, England left 2 players on the bench. If you cannot use your bench effectively to make a difference, then you must ask some serious questions. Springbok bench is (as I heard some comment) a get out of jail free card should the starting players run into trouble.

[@neilgraham12]

Goode loves Smith "a revelation" give me a break, and hates Ford. Smith has a spark but that is clearly not the correct recipe atm for controlling and winning top-tier test matches.

[@andrewpiearcey3440]

England have had success at the U20 for some years now. These teams often have a shorter prep window and so the coaching has to be spot on. We have produced U20 teams that play with pace and tempo and are current World Champs and also 6N champs. They play exciting rugby. Why can we not translate this to the senior teams? I think that is a fundamental question to ask. Should we not just promote Mapletoft and his crew to the seniors? I think, at least selection would improve. I think it would be too late for the 6N but it would be good for the WC2027.

[@stephenpeteranderson]

Cheika would be the smartest move of the decade.

[@Aluszn]

That man us good indeed

[@davos4268]

No thank you, Cheika is a baby

[@glenlazarus8110]

I'm a firm believer of players that can bring their BMT to every game. Perhaps the Boks are able to do this to every last man. They are a hungry team and you can tell from their demeanor and by the way they individually perform on and off the field...they're a team that wants it more than other teams !!!

[@Macron87]

Try Steward at 12, Freeman at 13. This opens so many options.

[@JanBouwer-l4b]

As a bok,south African,i look at Russie and he smiles as a coach,your coach looks like he is always popped he's pants

[@fatneck2008]

pooped*

[@danielticehurst-kg6zt]

Great discussion about defence and limited management achievement not just experience. Wigglesworth attack coach??? On comparing England's players with SA's (and others), isn't the conclusion simply that England have too few players to write home about. Most don't have the skills to deliver more than they already are. The bench?

[@eversor10]

The Solution is adding even more coaches A saying about cooks and broth comes to mind

[@dgbourdon1325]

Having said all of that chaps....we came close to beating Nz, and arguably should have, Aus came down to a piece of brilliance from Aus, and SA, we should / could have won that. Two gifted tries to SA....Let's get some perspe ctive!

[@cliffardgerber3830]

😂

[@peterjones9938]

If Leicester are Top 2 in March, and Eng disappoint during the 6ns. Inevitably it will be Cheika. The guy is a winner. Top coaches don't make the difference in coaching basics or strategies. But in belief. HE does that.

[@expressoevangelism80]

The team seem to start with a mindset to play in bursts of 20 minute flashes. When they attack with the ball, they do not run with commitment, as if they are going to run through the opposition. When we had Billy running through defences, there were other angles of attack which we could develop. Surely our team should go on the pitch wanting to play a full 80 minutes and if that changes, well that can be worked out at the time.

[@hdg0pc70]

Who selected the head coaches. The RFU, are at fault. The Scottish Union did the same with Gregor Townsend, he won 1 club competition, and is made Scotland coach. This is the best group of Scottish players for 25 years, yet we're are so inconsistent. It was only recently that Scotland won 2 Six Nations games in a row. Another theme I see is not taking responsibility for losing games. If you listen to the Kiwi, or Irish coaches. They accept they got something wrong..

[@MikeSmuts]

🇿🇦. Jeez guys. England is a bloody good team. You made it to the semi-final of the RWC, to the final in the previous tournament. The AB'S and a on-the-day exceptional Aussie team inched past you in extra time. The Boks' scoreline against you flattered us. It was a difficult game to survive. Lighten up. You're up there with the best. In fixing something that's not actually broken you may just ruin things.

[@ashleysoudah]

yeh but defense is not good enough at that level. too many gaps around ruck and blitz is inconsistent.

[@expressoevangelism80]

Good team⁉️ I’m sorry but good teams don’t continually get beaten in the last few minutes. They have some areas of good quality skills, however their mindsets do not play out a full game with the necessary commitment and passion.

[@TP1988]

I don’t think it’s the fans who need to reset expectations against SA and NZ tbf, it’s press who always talk as if England ‘should’ be at that level. But Jesus they have the players to beat Australia, to beat Scotland, to more often play like they’ve been practicing.

[@jonathandavis8599]

the problem is they practice against England B team and they are rubbish.

[@GoldenbanjoDJ]

I'm not English but I don't think there's a need to panic. England aren't in a position yet to be expecting to beat New Zealand and South Africa 'just because'. No team should ever 'expect' to beat NZ or SA. I don't think you panic when you lose to 2 of the best teams in the world in the first 2 games you've played together as a team this season. They beat Ireland last year, who were ranked #2 at the time I believe. No team in the top 6 should be moaning when they only just lose out to each other.

[@CebisaShabalala]

From a SA supporter… England shldnt let go of their coach, they a very good team that jat came against a better team

[@grahamhetherington9756]

Borthwick is the elephant in the room.

[@KallousKiwi]

English bench, especially front row are old, it's a theme for the home nations. Bringing old guys who are slow, have little to no chance of making impact and look as tired as the guys who come off. Dan Coles should never be in that team. Against the Boks he came on, scrummed a few times, flopped on a dozen rucks. How does he get a pass. This is his player rating: 18. Dan Cole - 5 Played 21 minutes, arriving just after Pollard had put the Springboks in front, but couldn’t make a momentum swinging difference. Compare that to other teams where props are affecting penalties at the scrum or clearing bodies (not flopping on rucks).

[@busheditor]

Goodey hits the nail on the head with his opening..... an experienced head running the England team....that is what is lacking..... plus some poor defence.....

[@iambeowulf9325]

The fact England can’t select their best players doesn’t help due to misguided RFU policy. There are 8’players currently in France that would walk into the starting 15. The Borthwick appointment is just another Johnson / Lancaster appointment again. The RFU never learn.

[@JohnSmith-vy4lh]

i AM AN ENGLISHMAN , AND VERY PROUD TO SAY SO, BUT THE UGLY SIDE OF COMMERCE AS GOT A VERY DAMAGING GRIP ON OUR GAME. THE OLD FARTS HAVE TO GO, BUT WILL CARLING WILL HAVE TO WAIT ANOTHEO 30 YEARS IT'S SEEMS.

[@barkerk100]

Yep. Makes sense. But why did it happen in the first place? Who put Borthwick in this position? I feel sorry for him. He is an excellent number two, but he so clearly does not currently have the necessary communication skills or experience to be the head coach, yet. While he may be learning on the job, England are regressing.

[@kev63inuk]

Andy been touch heavy with his points. Do agree in part with lack of experience with coaches but we let go Lancaster Farrell after 2019 and look how they learnt the next few years. Maybe Andrew strawbridge can step up. As for saying Argentina ahead of us Borthwick outdone them twice in last World Cup , once with 14 men. And wasn’t Cheika the coach then . No leave it as it is till after the six nations . Still believe this losing games business with the bench is purely the fact we lack 2 or 3 quality players. Jack Willis and a revitalised Karl sinckler would strengthen that team .

[@christopherdarby1043]

A couple of years ago, people were saying that the Premiership should be ringfenced because it made teams risk averse and wasn’t conducive with developing skills. You’re you’re saying there’s no jeopardy in the Premiership which is part of the reason why England aren’t winning games. Make your bloody minds up.

[@mikec2505]

I’ve said it so many times since they left us, but Steve B, Richard W, Lord Kevin of Sinfield and Tom H should’ve stayed with Tigers for another World Cup cycle. They’d have had far more experience and we would all know whether that League win was a one off or whether they were actually the real deal.

[@unikittythegamer4515]

Fair enough, England have not had a great month. But remembering where they were pre WC, I think they over delivered against expectations in the WC, and losing to All Blacks & SA, beating Ireland, Wales and Japan is not a bad run and is just the trajectory they’re on. As a Kiwi I want to criticise England, but I wouldn’t panic yet.

[@derrickholmes2586]

South African observation: England played far better than the scoreboard reflected. I was relieved at the final whistle. My 2 pennies worth.

[@TheJunglecrab]

Jim got those Guinness eyes

[@petes9524]

Glenfiddich! He's a Scot Boet.

[@mattpotter8725]

We need the English players playing in France to be available to be selected to have that strength in depth, it's as simple as that. It'll never happen but without them we will continue being where we are right now, with moments of brilliance and losing games thinking we were in that game there is hope, but there not enough game after game.

[@revenant2979]

Dont look so down Big Jiim, you have a Culcutta.Çup to retain in 2025. As a Saffa I love to watch the Six Nations. Rugby is drama in real time for men of all sizes and backgrounds.From SA.

[@BhengzIn80days]

It’s hard to see what England is really good at the moment, perhaps it’ll come with time. Their attack has improved & looks really good at times, they have a very iffy defence, no dominant set piece, below par kicking game….they need a more of an identity, and they don’t have that right now.

[@888young2]

No Andy please not Cheiker. We want O’gara!

[@whitebear5405]

I feel like England fans (including myself) have the issue that England under perform regularly due to negative and boring tactics. In the prem teams pass to the wings and attempt line breaks. International rugby isn't all kick it and chase it. NZ for many years have shown us there is another way to play the game. And yeah England with the finances, a domestic league, centralised contracts, world cup winners should want to beat all teams.

[@EdLo3]

Too harsh to blame El-Abd. He's only just come in and is part-time basically. He needs more time. Equally as much as I like Spencer, he has not got England going forward at all. JVP didn't have a good game either but he does snipe. Mitchell's stock has gone up big time. Personally I would go Mitchell and then Randall off the bench for the 6Ns. Our big issue is in attack. We need an experienced, world class attack coach. Mike Catt would be my pick. We are relying solely on Smith's and Manny brilliance. I have not seen Freeman or Lawrence picking lines.

[@kenrehill8775]

Sticking up for Joe, he was defence coach at Castres when they beat everyone to win the top 14 in 2018, equally weren’t Oyonnax in the final of the Pro d2 at the end of the 2023 season and semi finalists the year before? They went up to the top 14 in 2023, with Joe as head coach. I’d say his record is pretty good, and that he just doesn’t have the finances behind his club. Put Newcastle against the top pro d2 teams and see what happens.

[@championlehlohonolontulini9957]

Developing depth will take time. The English should allow the team to develop otherwise you won’t have a winning team.

[@daviddunn6460]

Surely loosing three Premiership clubs and players in the Top 14 limits the depth of the squad? Plus we lost many experienced players in the last 12 months , nearly as tough as the Wales job !

[@ianbetts4435]

Make Underhill Captain. He's the only player in the forwards worth his place.

[@markjames4926]

We get it Andy, Joel is Steve’s mate.. but you don’t to say it every time….England don’t have the talent in the locker room, that’s in nearly all positions including the coaches. England need to look at Australia, where they were and were they are, and how they achieved it… we need to find the talent

[@MeiA-h9r]

The scary thing is that England are not getting out manned in these loses - they’ve stacked up physically but I just think they don’t have enough talent on both sides of attack and defense. Just not talented enough and I don’t know how you fix that when the players are just not good enough

[@Danimal13]

Borthwick needs to go, time and time again he makes the same mistakes, it’s completely unacceptable, to keep saying “we’re learning from losses” and then do the same thing again which lost you the game is idiotic, all he’s done is pick his mates on the pitch and on the staff, it’s a complete mess and doesn’t stop there it goes all the way up to the top of the RFU, England rugby is a shambles