THESE AREN'T TOYS! - Sim Racing Safety Tips

[@mbm4481]

A lot of people laughed about the emergency stop button on my sc2 pro. A short demonstration cleared things up pretty quickly.

[@scottrowell2935]

What makes it worse is that crash looked clearly netcode based in that replay. Bad day at the office! Glad you're okay Will

[@boostedmedia]

Yeah the car definitely spun before physical contact based on the replay. But I’m sure contact would have followed shortly anyway.

[@alexanderunknown8605]

:DDD

[@bobmcl2406]

Hi Will. I was one of the folks expressing some reticence regarding stepping up to DD. Thanks for the acknowledgement, and especially thanks for sharing your thoughtful advice.

[@edreed5571]

What did you decide?

[@wheelgamersjack8339]

I have a fanatec clubsport base and I have the physical rotation of the wheel set to something like 300 degrees and adjust steering angle or steering sensitivity on a game by game basis

[@craiggallagher4461]

One suggestion - mount the E-Stop next to one of your knees so no matter which hand or arm gets caught up in the wheel you should be able to swing your leg across onto the E-Stop ASAP. Great video Will with many spot on points.

[@boostedmedia]

Yep. That’s exactly what we’ve done now.

[@craiggallagher4461]

@@boostedmedia just read a few other comments and saw one suggesting the same thing which you replied to 7 months ago saying you did suggest that in your video. Just checked and yep at 14:42 it’s one of your suggestions, obviously they missed it just like I did for some reason sorry, must be your quick talking :P

[@RaceSimCentral]

My mother had basically the type of injury you mentioned when she got in a real car accident. Never recovered full motion. Thanks for this. I've not had a DD wheel yet, so it's something I really hadn't thought about.

[@brettst01]

Thanks Will, appreciate the info. Slowly moving up into higher end wheel bases, and even with the CSL elite at 100% it is very easy to end a session where the thumbs are quite sore if you do not anticipate an incident. Appreciate the advice and the fact you are looking out for others with your experiences.

[@darwinwallace77]

The first my dad about driving race cars was never put your thumbs inside the rim of the wheel.

[@kevinmcneil1998]

Just picked up Simucube 2 and this is great information for a new sim racer.

[@rikone01]

Will, glad your thumb is feeling better. I am not using a direct drive wheel yet, but have taken your suggestion to jump into iRacing, and survived my first race in Rookies! I think your thoughts on testing force feedback with new cars in test situations is spot on. Great instruction!

[@vicioussid1967]

Know your pain Will did it to my wrist on my TS-PC . I think all wheels should be used with a little bit of caution. Happy racing.

[@danielwillems3795]

I have also had some moments with my TS-PC racer aswell. It is still quite a strong wheelbase

[@biffisgreat]

Same thing driving one handed on my ts-pc on a cool down lap, thanks iRacing, every freaking time!

[@biffisgreat]

@@danielwillems3795 can't imagine a DD wheel

[@biffisgreat]

I can't wait to hurt myself on a DD wheel, 3080 first though

[@pancake5830]

how? ive been using my ts-pc on 100% for 3 years, i never even take my hands off the wheel, ive had countless crashes, i have the steering range to 900 degrees, etc. 6nm isnt enough to do anything to your hands if you hold onto it. i cant imagine anybody hurting themselves on a ts-pc. ive literally crashed a redbull x2010 s1 car at top speed,(over 400 kmh) at the mulsanne corner, with my hands on the wheel at 200% force feedback, when i was 12! no problem. how on earth did you manage to injure yourself???(i am honestly genuinely curious, please tell me.)

[@The412P]

The only times I have come close to, or actually hurt myself with the DD, is during aggressive reversing/getting the car pointed the right way after going off. Not sure how to explain it, but if you’re not careful as the weight shifts when the car is transitioning from rearward motion to forward, there can be a huge spike-like force almost as if there is a peak in force around the instant where the castor angle on a shopping cart swaps, as the car’s weight and direction shifts instantly. If I have a lot of steering input going backwards and aggressively stop as I shift into 1st to get going again, the wheel can almost twist your wrist right off. So, be careful going backwards with DD! 😹

[@프레디khjfreddy]

I’d like to see two force options for the wheelbase software. One for the typical setting which adjusts the dynamic range and the second for the torque limit to prevent the wheel from producing more than certain amount of force. Not sure if this already exists but if it doesn’t, should be a nice feature

[@madzangels]

Definitely, I can't see anywhere for DD1 Fanatec settings or in Fanalab to do this...It should be the a fundamental safety feature

[@jeffreyford5541]

I've spent time with ice packs after same thing on my DD. I really watch thumb placement now as well. Whenever 900 degrees, it will spin VERY fast. Most GT cars I run 540, F1 at 330 w/ the exception of Monaco, which I like real tight at 300 pr so. Glad your ok. It is a surprise from hell when it occurs.

[@mrlang7818]

Thank you for uploading this video. Im receiving my DD2 next week so videos like this I fine extremely important and useful. Thanks again 👍 I currently own the Clubsport V2.5 base. I made the mistake of putting my arm through the wheel to press buttons whilst the car was rolling slowly towards a wall 🙃

[@briancollins6974]

Personally i never but my thumbs through the wheel i only ever rest them on the outer edge of the wheel. I find i still have just as much control.

[@johnwills1648]

I did a lot of 4wheeling and I drive truck for a living and one of the most important lessons I've learned is keep your thumbs outside of the wheel. You can learn how to maintain control doing that AND when you lose it your thumbs don't pay the price. That all being said I've had my fingertips caught by the spokes and it hurt but never so much that it kept me from driving.

[@emehcomp]

Although I don't speak and understand a lot of English, I enjoy watching your videos. Congratulations.

[@koofdome]

This is important info. New sim racers with big wallets go ahead and buy the best of the best premium gear, and think it’s a toy. These things are not toys. They are powerful motors with extremely realistic and strong feedback with real wheels (some wheels are literally out of an actual car) and these things can tear your arm off ;) but you’ll never get this much fun from anything else!

[@nicholascrow7405]

By the leg or foot is best, problem with having it by a hand is if the hand gets caught in the wheel...

[@ronsmith5572]

Well looks like your hand / thumb is feeling a bit better so that's good . I drove my 63' 2 Door Nova CHEVY II 327 S.B. Muncie 4 speed with a 9 inch deep dish 3 spoke steering wheel back in the 70's and had a couple fingers in the holes in the spokes of the wheel pulling in to a parking spot at maybe 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 or so M.P.H. and my front tire hit the parking curb and my wheel spun on me and that hurt like a m/f and that was at slow speed , I don't even want to think about how that would have felt at high speed even though it wasn't a parking curb for you that you run in to I know that hurt more than what happened to me . Lesson learned keep your fingers out of the wheel spoke holes or you'll loose'em in a very painful way .

[@jeroen.feelders]

After finding out I left my Fanatec CSL switched on after shutting down my computer I installed a master-slave power-squid. The computer is in the master and if the amount of current to the master drops below a certain level, power is switched off from the slaves. Effectively switching my Fanatec and monitor off after Windows-shutdown.

[@Zoom-Zoom]

Any thoughts on muscle strain? Maybe suggest a warm-up/stretch routine to your subs.

[@markstuart8401]

Had my DD1 wheel hit my hand a few times whilst pulling hands away, gives a nasty hit. Defo not a toy lol.

[@church493]

I already commented to original video. Imho safeguard in firmware to reduce max torque to not turn continuously more then some max angle without reduction of torque would be better solution. It won't limit lock-to-lock max angle, it won't reduce dynamic range or information passed with feedback or require to reduce max torque in general, it won't require settings configuration in software .. just simple "don't turn more then X degrees at max torque", or if game/effects still tells it to, greatly reduce torque after already turned X degrees to make it manageable/more safe. It will only reduce "crash realism", which together with injuries imho are not exactly asked by anybody to be simulated realistically for more immersion :). Depending on game people do risk more and drive less careful/safe exactly because it's game where one is supposed to not be ever killed or injured. And yes, other drivers are "uncontrollable variable". If there are safety nannies in cars, and if direct drive wheels are physically capable of injuries, why not implement electronic nanny in firmware to increase game-crash safety (while trying to reduce interference in "normal driving" effects)? Full 30Nm, full 900-1050dg rotation .. just with "FB TC" that will kick in only when crashes in game commands wheelbase of something too unreasonable/unsafe.

[@church493]

@@darknewt9959 surely pros can code up/test/release something better fit, after all, just a quick idea. And in my eyes some safeguard is better then nothing at all .. or then generic lock-to-lock steering rotation limit or overall FB torque reduction as of now, with cons of limiting feedback in some ways even during "normal driving". Airbags or seatbelts won't save one in 100% of crashes/accidents. Nor do electronic safety nannies in cars. But that's not the reason to not use them in cars at all, is it?

[@church493]

@@darknewt9959 Nothing of sort. Just a bit more safeguard code to firmware, which also in simplest forms should be much simpler to do then coding & testing other forcefeedback effects, which are supposed to provide closer to realistic feel of something that is purely subjective. Just extra code in wheelbase firmware inbetween requested effect from wheel driver to actual commands to motor controller, that backtracks steering motion in eg. last 1-1/2 sec, torque level, wheel position and limits according defined tresholds what commands can be passed to motor. eg. "if not already turned up quickly continuous 180dg with >15Nm - pass as is, if more, reduce by 5nm for every extra 5degrees, and if wheel hasn't turned even further then 10deg for next 2sec (should be safe enough to remove hands if needed) after safeguard has been triggered, then reset counters." (of course, these sample values are completely made up by me). Obviously, actual tresholds should be fine tuned so to ensure both safety yet minimal interference for effects that count as "normal driving". But i don't think it would be such rocket science for guys developing drivers/firmwares for DD wheels. They probably don't need even actual game to request wheel to do something, but can simulate such injuring requests directly in whatever coding/debugging software they use, which should quicken testing, instead of trying to crash in game several times. To me implementing realistic feel effects seems much harder black magic to code then relatively simpler safeguard/treshold check.

[@church493]

​@@darknewt9959 i'll repeat, that some safeguard is better then nothing. Some algorithm/limit that may reduce risks is still much safer then absence of it (even legal liability wise), especially for cases like Boosted Media experienced, when it was too late to let go hands of wheel or reach killswitch. Worst thing that may happen - tresholds monitored by safeguard code to be set too low and start to interfere with "normal driving" FB effects, which may put off some hardcore simmers, if it cannot be disabled. Well, if Fanatec implemented that extra procedure to remove limits on max torque at your own risk, then why not implement in similar way to switch off safeguards for such hardcore purists. Still, better then it's now, better then nothing, better then seriously crippling/limiting steering angle & feedback torque, and if current, even less safe, DD wheels can be sold and used, i fail to see how it would be not legal to make something more limited and safer then unsafe current products. What legal liability in real car world innovators in car safety systems had faced in past, that kept them from inventing and implementing them? Volvo had to go through courts to allow inventing/adding their 3pt belt to their cars? ABS or airbag inventors went through courts first too? Government have ever regulated what extra safety feature can be added on top of existing? No. They just regulate what minimum safety set of existing ones car needs to have to be certified for public roads. Nothing about if something better/newer cannot be added above that. And most issues came with stupid/overconfident in own skills/believing in some myths actual owners/drivers, that decided to not use those features (eg. buckling belt) or switch them off. Not with inventing/adding them. DD wheel makers already kind of have protected themselves from large share of legal actions with warnings in manuals and drivers and so on that "it can be dangerous, can injure, handle with care, yadayada". If they still can be sold as is, if DD wheels are still allowed, then just like with real cars, extra safeguards can be only applauded by gov-t, and if anything - in future they may request/regulate for every wheelbase to have such. Legal liabilities aside, i know that i certainly would wish for such safeguard to be there, and would see that as extra selling feature among competing products.

[@church493]

@@darknewt9959 Not everybody uses wheelbases at tarmac track sims only. For rally or drift that limit can be easily and often be hit, even limiting one for some maneuvers or robbing precision, if limit workarounded by steering ratio scaling. Simplicity of implementation of such 'rule' looks to me benefiting only lazyest hw vendor developers. And i'm still convinced that implementation of my idea is not THAT hard and way simpler then rest of coding/development work vendor staff has already done. And it doesn't even require any hw mods, just some coding by someone already tasked by development & maintenance of FW, and for endusers - just one firmware upgrade away. Why just fix bugs, or just work on enhancing feedback feel, safety seems important aswell to spend some time/work on it, especially if it may reel in potential new customers, that decided against DD for such potential issues/risks?

[@AugustinianThomist]

though I only watch F1 these days and would love a sexy looking f1 style wheel, i think I'll still get a round wheel with my dd1 to be on the safer side.

[@brettst01]

I did the same, can play any of the sims with the round wheel, and when I can afford and justify it, will get a F1 style rim. Don't regret the decision,

[@alec7568]

Even the weaker wheels can hurt if you're not careful. I managed to strain my thumb pretty badly when I was rear-ended in an online race using my belt driven ts-xw.

[@dominicrobinson4598]

Could you put the emergency stop button near you leg so you can hit it quickly without needing to use your arms? Just wondering what you think

[@boostedmedia]

That’s exactly what I suggested in the video.

[@mario_nuevo]

I have my emergency button in a place ready for pushing with my leg, just in case my hand(s) get trapped.

[@madzangels]

I can't help but think by the time you hit that button the damage is already done lol

[@mario_nuevo]

@@madzangels even when the damage is done, you would prefer to stop the motor by yourself ;-)

[@cantfeelthis3288]

Haha. Was one of those comments lol. Thanks for the follow up vid!

[@olawiktander703]

still have pain in my left thumb since i got hit by the wheel a few weeks ago. nothing seems broken thuo. Need to be faster letting go of the wheel.. :D

[@ActNasty5]

Balancing trying to save it and letting go is hard haha

[@BeautifulKrk]

Can the steering range be set on most direct drive wheels? I'm thinking about increasing the sensitivity of the steering (F1 like) and setting the range to 300°. Shouldn't that be enough to avoid injuries?

[@pally8868]

Super valuable advice - thankyou 👍

[@TrueKivan]

My Simucube 2 Pro is arriving this week and honestly I'm scared shirtless, I will spend a long time drilling those safety measures I to my brain before I go anywhere around its full potential.

[@TrueKivan]

@opticalslay3r783 Rock solid. Just works perfectly and flawlesly every time. Also I had no accidents, keeping my safety protocol. Feels just right and natural in FFB department too. I have zero desire to change or upgrade it.

[@andrew1977au]

with my experience in motorsport, you need to train yourself to rest your thumbs on the wheel not in the wheel for reasons like this. it can seem unnatural to some but it much safer, the time it takes to react and pull your hands is too long and ends up being too late. And also when is your next live stream???

[@boostedmedia]

Next live stream is next Sunday at 8:30pm AEST so exactly a week from now +1 hour

[@BuddyGraham]

How much Torque did this wheel have which injured your thumb just for reference

[@clawsmayhem7268]

Are those types of wheel easier to trap your thumbs? I've the porsche cup wheel same as Will has on the shelf. Not had an issue with that.. Yet

[@WilXuH]

Crashing a virtual car has never been so scary

[@eedoamitay3341]

Is there no way to have a failsafe in place? Like when it detects you get hit in the game it reduces the force by half or more?

[@boostedmedia]

Yep iRacing does that now as of a few months after this video was released.

[@aledmb]

having the emergency button positioned where you can activate it with your feet is probably the best tip here... also, no need to use 100% FFB... YOU ARE NOT INSIDE A RACE CAR.

[@ronsmith5572]

Yeah , still like to see that time race between you two , but don't want to see her get hurt doing it . But yeah that would be cool to see .

[@wegpiraatjochem]

Imagine going to the hospital and the doktor asks what happened and you say, I broke my wrist driving pretend cars.

[@boostedmedia]

😂

[@mustang43058]

Strain on the ulnar collateral ligament... I had my UCL rip off the bone of the base of my thumb and took a chunk of bone with it. That injury occurred from a rope almost ripping my thumb off but I have been super nervous about buying a DD because of the risk of reinjuring it. I only have about half the range of movement that I did before.

[@tauttechminusmanagedmusic3778]

Is there a similar lock-to-lock (bump stop) setting for Fanatec wheels? I can't find it on the V2.5.

[@SCVIndy]

Thx for the update and suggestions

[@legendarymark112]

Can you do this for the Fanatec DD1/DD2 as well? Bump stop without changing sensitivity etc?

[@vividpsychosis8222]

In f1 last night I found 360 to be too loose compared to how I felt it should be and when I watched f1 videos. I felt like 280 or so was perfect so a bumpstop of 300 would be perfect and reduce harm. That was scary to watch. I plan to have friends over to check out the rig and do VR racing for fun as well. Can’t be risky broken bones.

[@gurtana]

Would this kind of dangerous rim spin happen with a CSL Elite? And would you also recommend that with CSL Elite you always let go of the wheel on impact too?

[@HumzaT]

@ willford what do you have your max force and wheel force set to in iracing? And also what do you keep the slew rate at

[@DerekMoore82]

But what about drifting with a DD wheel? You're gonna always have that wheel spinning like crazy and you're gonna have to grip it when you go to catch it. Having reduced bump stops or letting go fully isn't an option for good drifting.

[@perplexer731]

Thanks for the tips about bumpstop and overall strength. That calms me down a lot. Now I can look forward to my Simucube 2 Pro! YEAH. .. if Ascher were a little more efficient in production with the new F28-SC. ;) Still getting well soon.

[@jyamas1382]

My girlfriend has a desk mount for her wheel and she always just puts the wheel on her desk if she's not using it. last week her pc restarted unexpectedly, the wheel callibrated itself and started rolling over the desk ruining her whole setup. controller, screen, pc... it's all damaged

[@monsterracingbear8399]

you have your thumbs on front of wheel facing up and not rapped around the wheel so they dont get court like has just happened to you. this is how real life racers drive to avoid this happening.

[@micktait8576]

Hi sim family im wondering if fanatec has fixed the issue of quick release movment

[@jackparkinson3029]

Can you not set an auto bumpstop so it matches the car in game?

[@Theodore96Fataliev]

hey Will, glad to see you are okay. so basically you are limiting yourself to the force provided by the sport ?

[@boostedmedia]

Essentially yes. But with the benefit of the increase in slew rate. Have a watch of my recent Simucube comparison videos.

[@tubzvermeulen]

Thanks for the video

[@thierrych2630]

I perharps do a mistake but first of all I never pilot with my thumb inside the wheel. Like that the wheel can do whatever it wants never blocking any part of myself. I just have to open my hands and it's ok. That's a baseline and I don't know why you don't tell anything about it....

[@Pr1meZ]

Thanks this video really helps me

[@olawiktander703]

is that bumpstop even available on a Fanatec DD?

[@JSmith73]

You mean a Fanatec DD, right? I have the same question now!

[@boostedmedia]

Not currently without adjusting the sensitivity also. Hopefully they add a seperate adjustment like with the Simucube. You could theoretically achieve the same thing by adjusting the maximum rotation in the FANATEC settings and then adjusting the in game sensitivity to suit.

[@olawiktander703]

@@JSmith73 yeah Fanatec DD, sorry, just so used to call it DD1 or DD2.. ;)

[@JSmith73]

@@boostedmedia with that and custom pedal output curves we'd have a real improvement in the software for sure. They're still ironing out more important gremlins though.

[@theauthenticsteve]

I pretty much found the opposite to this. When I first started using the VRS based on what I read and watched I got in the habit of letting the wheel go and like you hurt my hand. But now I tend to run my wheel at 20Nm and set the strength in game but when I anticipate a crash I hold on tight and since doing this I've found the wheel easy to control even at 20Nm spikes and never felt like it could injure me because I can over power the wheel at 20Nm. The thing about the normal crash mentality of letting the wheel go is in a real car not only do you have infinite rotation force possible but more importantly you have you moving forward to the wheel and in some cases the wheel will move toward you at the same time. So holding the wheel as you crash in real life can result in broken wrists and other serious injury that we are not at risk of in sm racing. This is just my opinion and I'll stick to it until I experience otherwise but I think it is better to hold the wheel tight and as much as I find racing at 20Nm tough for long periods, I don't find 20Nm difficult to manage. And yes I have held onto the wheel when it spazzed out and I don't have an emergency stop. No damage or pain from that either, I even let the wheel go with one hand and held it one handed during a 20Nm spaz out so I could reach back and shut it off. I'm no hulk, I'm an averge height and weigh just over 70. But I've also let my children use my wheel at 20Nm and instructed them they should either hold on tight or let go completely in a crash but suggested that I feel it's better to hold on tight. My youngest smallest son sim races all the time and 20Nm and deliberate crashing wasn't an issue for him. My adult son who is about the same size as me but doesn't normally sim race did struggle a bit with the wheel. I also took my youngest son karting the other day, for the first time. As we left one of the first things he said was something about how realistic my DD feels after driving a kart in real life.

[@boostedmedia]

I think the problem in this instance was I wasn’t expecting it. If I’d been heading for a wall I could have held it easily.

[@theauthenticsteve]

@@boostedmedia That's the hard one, an unexpected crash because ideally you don't really want to hold the wheel tight. I know now I really focus on people behind me and I do think I probably grip the wheel a bit harder now that I use a DD especially when there are other cars near me.

[@ndkdkdnem861]

Sure, congratulations.

[@theauthenticsteve]

@@Leynad778 Like I said, I have already been hurt and the worst crash was similar to Will and I did the same thing he did, it just caught my thumb. I've also driven the wheel at 20Nm plenty of times and when I did telemetry showed full force spikes including direction change. My thinking is when I drive at 20Nm I never felt in danger and never felt the wheel difficult to hold, it's just too fatiguing to drive like that continuously. So considering the only injuries I've felt have been as I let the wheel go I decided I won't let it go anymore unless I am letting it go long before an event happens. So far iRacing has been the most violent feeling title I have tried but nothing has been as violent as when my PC crashed. The crash caused the wheel to rotate at full force until it got to the stop and when it got to the end it violently bounced against the stop. I refused to let the wheel go because it was so violent I feared damage, I held it for a while as I waited for the crash to end but the crash kept going which eventually led me to choose to hold the wheel with just one arm while I reached back to turn things off. But in all seriousness when I got the VRS DD I have had a hard time understanding why people say a 20Nm wheel is hard to deal with and I really feel no fear even letting my son who weighs half my weight use my wheel at full force. Admittedly it's pretty wild watching him wrestle it in open wheel cars so we took a video for him to show his friends but when he tried it at full force he felt confident enough to repeatedly crash on purpose and was laughing the whole time. After he was done he was visibly fatigued like after a serious workout. I will point out I think a solid cockpit plays a role in this. The wheel felt more violent on my Next Level Racing rig before my profile rig arrived. I'll also point out I think driver position plays an important role, I spent ages getting my position (almost) perfect on this rig and can also report I have previously felt pain from a Logitech wheel after a long race because it was such a bad position. When I let my son try my rig at full force I actually completely rebuilt the rig first so it was suitable for him to use. There is a risk of serious injury with these wheels but I feel it is more related to the speed of impact than force up to 20Nm. Like with Will my most painful experience was when I was hit from behind going down the mountain and I let the wheel go but it still caught my thumb and at high speed. When I hold on tight the wheel can never achieve speed. For me I'd also say if I set my wheel to up to 60% max force which is 12Nm there is no way I'd ever have an issue by holding on because at that force I still have a tendency to overpower the wheel like I do with low powered wheels. I do however find 12Nm too fatiguing for long racing which is a bummer because I am faster with stronger forces but it's uncomfortable to race like this. So now depending on the car I set my wheel base to 100% so up to 20Nm is possible but I typically set the ingame force so the car I am driving produces forces of 8-10Nm at the wheel during normal cornering, it's a little slower for me because I still turn the wheel too much in corners but it is that happy medium of a strength that never fatigues me while still being strong and detailed. This does potentially leave me at more risk of injury because now my wheel can suddenly go from 10Nm to 20Nm and if that happened when I wasn't expecting it and the wheel was able to accelerate before I either gripped it hard or let it go there is a real chance of injury. I'm just providing a different perspective based on my personal experience with my DD. I understand the arguments people have made over the years on this topic and they seemed like the right advice until I tried my DD and the experience didn't meet my expectations based on what I read many times over the years. Once I thought about the situation I realised the same risk as a real car doesn't exist in a sim wheel up to 20Nm. 20Nm is a cap and real life forces can dramatically exceed this in a crash. Also in a crash there is no force related to our movement toward the wheel. There is risk and I do agree with things Will suggested in this video but I also think holding an up to 20Nm wheel in a crash is not a difficult task and anyone who thinks that strength is dangerous to hold should not use a wheel at all at that force as I can show you plenty of full foce spiking telemetry related to normal agressive driving in technical sections with curbs and direction change. And in iRacing you have ghost curbs/holes. There are certain tracks that have points on the surface that if you drive over them it feels like hitting a massive square gutter through the wheel. My advice is if you don't think you can hold your wheel when hitting an invisible curb at those forces, don't use that amount of force. I personally don't have an issue even when those have caught me by surprise. The only issues (multiple) I had were when I let go of the wheel and it caught my thumb. If this ever turns out to be wrong for me, I'll come back and adress it but I doubt it will ever be wrong. Many people have done the full force challenge and I don't personally think it is dangerous. And while I wish I was stringer than the average person, I don't think I am and my experience doing the full force challnge really was a disappointment because I've found 20Nm much easier to deal with than others made out in their videos. I'll go further and say in most games outside of iRacing 20Nm is the force I use because in something like PC2 20Nm still doesn't feel too strong, I'd go as far as saying a little weak feeling. I also should point out I use a 320mm wheel so at the same Nm force setting, Will using his small formula type wheel will experience a little more force than I feel with my larger wheel but my larger wheel would accelerate quicker.

[@theauthenticsteve]

@@Leynad778 Significant? I think we have different definitions. It is 12% stronger so at Will's 12Nm a 285 mm wheel feels 42.1 N or 4.293 kgf compared to 37.5 N or 3.824 kgf at 320 mm which would only apply if I actually limited my wheel to 12 Nm but since I always run my wheel at 20 Nm in a crash my 320 mm wheel can see forces spike up to 62.5 N or 6.373 kgf or up to 48% more than what Will's max force with his settings. Additionally as already mentioned the 320 mm rim will spin 12% faster than the 285 mm wheel. Also I failed to mention my worst unexpected jolt was at the full force setting not my current setting. In my initial testing and use of the wheel I started at 12Nm, or 60% in VRS then went straight to 20Nm (100%) then back down to 15Nm (75%) and I actually used between 12Nm and 15Nm for most of the time I used the wheel. It is only more recently I have reduced it to 8Nm to 10Nm depending on the car with the most common setting being 10Nm now as I will start endurance racing again soon. For me with the VRS wheel no unexpected jolt has come close to ripping the wheel out of my hand even at 20Nm. And like I said I've seen people saying those things but I don't understand it, sure I have good forearm strength and grip for my size but I'm not a big guy and wouldn't consider myself to be exceptionally strong but I just can't relate to these statements. 20Nm is a fun strength for me but it's does fatigue my muscles with extended use and I would never want to do a double or triple stint in an endurance race at 20Nm, for reference I did 9 hours of driving in the Spa 24hr. On the other hand 12Nm is still possibly too fatiguing for an endurance race but also still too weak and anything below 15Nm I find I lose time to bad sim driving habits like turning the wheel too much. In your case your wheel can spike to 25Nm at a full force setting so perhaps that would be different for me but you didn't say you run it at 100%. I'm kind of hoping with more use I get stronger and can drive at 15Nm all the time because I find that's about the point where I'm mostly not turning the wheel too much however at 15Nm I still sometimes turn too much. I never turn too much at 20Nm.

[@TheJuno106]

Happened to me going from a G29 to a CSL elite! Jealous of the DD wheels but that is not going to happen on a Playseat challenge!

[@Night_Diver81]

Ive got the Playseat challenge too mate... I'm ready for a proper rig.

[@aqulex84]

Yo Will. The Discount Code from Trak Racer isnt working anymore. European Website says its expired. Will you contact them and check out if thats true and maybe can be reengaged somehow. Iam planing on spending over 1700 Euro on TR gear next month and 5% would be huge then .

[@boostedmedia]

Thanks for letting me know mate. I’ll ask.

[@aqulex84]

@@boostedmedia thx man. That´s great. but why the last for letting you know. Sorry iam from germany and probably dont get all those english sayings right :D

[@boostedmedia]

Sorry mate. That was an autocorrect fail. Was meant to say “thanks for letting me know”. I’ve emailed them.

[@aqulex84]

@@boostedmedia haha. Okay. "Damn you, autocorrection" I got those problems as well with it. But i just thought that might be a special saying i just dont know ;). Its always possible in the interweb since were all around the world connected these days. Have a nice rest of the weekend man and keep up the great content. Love your videos

[@boostedmedia]

Should be fixed now mate.

[@ActNasty5]

Even my weak little g29 has grabbed my hand or fingers when im in vr and i just think how it could’ve been bad lol

[@jackbritt2424]

I kid you not, I sprained my wrist in a skip barber crash on my DD2. 💀🍑

[@ActNasty5]

Rip

[@baflabies]

Iracing has an awful crash ffb scaling! Even tho if you sett ingame ffb settings to low, It will send out 100% signal inn crashes. And lowering the nm inn true drives gives strange scaling inn some cars i feel. So i found that slew rate and req filter is a rly good way to get away from the over brutal kicks the wheel gives at crashes. While still give a natrual ffb feel. But we all know its all subjective :P And maybe even placebo :D

[@UGHaydzz]

They should put a feature in that disables ffb in a crash

[@baflabies]

@@UGHaydzz Yeah or at least be able to adjust it. I guess they want people to be nervous about crashing. But no need to get an injury from a simulator IMO. I find it strange they still haven't tuned down the crash ffb. i know u can adjust stuff like that in json file inn rf2 ac , acc. But can we do that in iracing? if so I want to know

[@medovarszkyzoltan9255]

You can set ffb on crash in Dirt Rally 2.0 for example.

[@HumzaT]

What do you keep your slew rate at

[@philclarke7712]

Come on guys...you all harp on about wanting realism. Thumb snapping is part of the sport. I honestly think you should have someone stood behind you with a plank of wood just on case you role a single seater. Thwack!

[@boostedmedia]

Lol!

[@JJ_Khailha]

Why can’t the devs simply code protection into the software? I’m no expert but once a car is no longer recoverable, simply reduce all forces to a safe level?

[@1992jamo]

What sort of buggy game is that? How it realistic for the wheel to have a fit like that just from a spin before any impact?

[@robertsummers753]

THIS IS NICE TO KNOW ............THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@racekiwi]

Anyone who has raced real cars knows not to wrap their thumbs inside the wheel. It takes a bit to learn because it's not natural coming from driving road cars, but you'll get there. I can still hear my driving coaches yelling at me "Don't wrap your thumbs!" = problem solved.

[@ThatAverageMTBer]

I'm honestly curious why do F1 drivers put their thumbs in the wheel?

[@simonolsen9995]

Just because everything you said here was true, doesn't change the fact that if you don't stick your thumbs through the wheel, they don't get broke. Plenty of comments to that effect in the last video. Perhaps some of your younger viewers (and unsuspecting wives) might benefit from you sharing those comments too.

[@boostedmedia]

I can’t drive with my thumbs on the outside. My hands just slip even with grippy gloves. I’ve never seen real life POV footage where a driver using a formula wheel had their thumbs on outside either. But for sure it would be safer. No question about that.

[@razormx3253]

@@boostedmedia You're right Will... Check onboard footage of any racecar and every driver has his/her hands through the steering wheel... You have to, to "brace" the wheel going over hard bumps/kerbs or the wheel will just jump out of your hands... And to simon... Why do wheel manufacturers specialy sculpt the wheels so your thumbs can very comfortably wrap around the steering wheel...

[@whiteandnerdytuba]

If it wasn’t a toy, I wouldn’t be here

[@bsmracing6592]

Good, and never play Forza with DD wheels.

[@superisaac3303]

hi!

You really seem surprised by this. Man you are doing SIM racing for so long, you should've known this is a realistic scenario. Even a g2x wheels can break your thumb or wrist if you are not carefull. The other thing, gloves are a silent killer here. You can retract your fingers easier without them, I'm sure. Watching your previous video a couple of times you can notice the force of the wheel is too much for you, take it down a notch. Other than that, keep on rocking!

[@blairwalton4456]

All of this could have been easily avoided by holding the wheel properly and not having your thumbs through the wheel

[@razormx3253]

Uhm... No... Look up onboard shots of racedrivers and ALL of them have their thumbs through the steering wheel... If you don't do that the wheel can jump out of your hands by hard bumps/heavy use of kerbs...

[@blairwalton4456]

@@razormx3253 It may look like they have but their thumbs are sitting on the thumb rest witch most people including some wheel makers now days call the thumb locks "most" pro drivers are trained not to put there thumb through the wheel for this exact reason

[@ActNasty5]

Blair Walton i read thats more for rally drivers but im not sure

[@zorrothebug]

You made two points what you could have done, but you didn't mention the most important one, so many users posted under your first video: NEVER WRAP YOUR THUMBS AROUND THE WHEEL. Put them onto the outer rim but do not stick your thumbs into the wheel.

[@boostedmedia]

I find it impossible to drive with a formula wheel without putting my thumbs through the wheel and I’ve never seen footage of real racecar drivers with their thumbs on the outside in these type of cars. Only for drifting and rally.

[@Alex-ck4in]

"these arent toys" Mmmmmmm sure thing big boy 😂

[@f1fan853]

So you had your thumbs in the wrong spot and settings not set up correctly. As somebody on KZbin you really need to learn correct settings before instructing other people on how to do it.

[@boostedmedia]

Isn’t that what I just did? Lol

[@joelyoly5929]

Certainly are toys

[@boostedmedia]

Watch out everyone. We’ve got a badass over here!

[@deadmanwalking1930]

If so then why are you here watching videos on toys ? Or it is that you really want a DD wheel, but mummy wont buy you one?

[@paulkelleway8032]

If you turn forces down in the game it doesn’t matter if the wheel is set at 100% in it’s profiler, crash effects will also be turned down relative to the other effects. What you are saying doesn’t make any sense because you are saying that if you set in game FFB to zero, you will still get effects when you crash? The fact is you don’t need a 27NM wheel because you are paying for 60% of motor strength you will never use, so you may as well flush your hard earned down the shitter! It’s the same as buying a PA system designed for a football stadium and putting it in your bedroom.

[@boostedmedia]

That’s not what I said at all. I said the aim should be to set the force feedback to the maximum amount of dynamic range you want to feed while driving, and that I’d it clips when you crash that’s better than having the dynamic range reduced when driving or having massive torque spikes when crashing.