Belt Drive Vs. Direct Drive - Battle of the Five's

Our last few videos spawned the idea for this video. Which is better A direct Drive Wheel or a Belt Drive Wheel if they were of similar quality and strength. If you look to the sub 6 nm group there is one battle that could answer that question. The Thrustmaster TGTII wheelbase is rumored to have almost 6 Newton Meters of Belt Driven Power. The Moza Racing R5 base has about 5.5 Newton Meters of Direct Drive Power. How do they compare.
For this shootout we focus on the bases alone. I am using the exact same rig, pedals and setup out on track. Despite each company having a selection of rims to chose from, we are only focusing on the base, not the wheel rims.
Thanks for your continued support! You, The Pitcrew, are the reason we’re able to keep the wheels turning here at The Simpit. If you could like, subscribe, and share the video as well, that goes a long way towards promoting the community, and of course our appreciation is a give in. If you’d like to catch everything we’ve got going on, check out the links below. Thanks again, and we’ll see you on the track!
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#iracing #simracing #assettocorsa #thrustmaster #mozaracing #fanatec #ricmotech #directdrive

[@booth403]

THIS IS THE SIMPIT!!! Absolutely great video, absolutely loved this piece, one of the best for sure! Looking forward to more direct comparisons, these are truly consumer friendly videos!

[@MrBasjunk]

I have the old T-GT and dreamed about a DD for a long time. And finally tried out a fanatic DD and did conclude that the wheels were very similar. I could not tell the difference really only slightly so I kept my T-GT in the end.

[@magicsilence1]

Very interesting and incredible results🧐

[@GG-si7fw]

I love your testing standards; throwing out the fastest and slowest times and averaging the rest. Also, kudos to testing with a vintage vehicle to measure the nuance of the wheel base.

[@gregdoucet3721]

Great comparison and testing! I’d love to see a shoot out between the alpha mini and Moza R9 😀

[@franneeh4703]

looking forward to this too

[@peterwood2633]

Really interesting. The t-gtii really holds its own.

[@peterwood2633]

I have a t-gtii now and really happy with it. Fan does make noise but as soon as sound is on you can't hear it. You only feel belt notch if you go looking for it, spinning the wheel really fast for example

[@vtg1800]

@@peterwood2633 Good to hear that, I want buy T-GT II with playseat in winter 2024 and sure but PSVR 2

[@RacingBilliken]

Thorough and helpful video! Thank you for making this video. Moza wheels seem a bit expensive, which is causing me to lean towards the Thrustmaster setup.

[@RacingAnt]

Moza wheels are more expensive because they are made out of aluminum and carbon fibre, not plastic like the Thrustmaster rims. It also has a decent QR system that doesn't flex. The ONLY reason to spend the extra $$$ on the Thrustmaster base is if you're on console.

[@dannyadams5250]

Hello Shaun, great video. I have been considering upgrading to a dd wheel base from my CSL Elite for some time. However, after watching you videos, I have decided to put that money into upgrading my pc. Keep the vids coming and happy new year.

[@VishnuRajam4x4]

There is a very real advantage to having a DD. I’m using the thrustmaster TS-XW and have been racing with my cousin for the last 2 years. When my cousin upgraded to the VRS DD he was immediately 5 to 8 tenth’s faster. Another advantage is that you get up to pace much much faster with a good DD. Takes me 3-4 hrs to get up to pace but takes him only 30 mins. Don’t believe people telling you that DD doesn’t make you better / faster

[@natedagreat6704]

@@VishnuRajam4x4 that could just mean he’s better at driving

[@VishnuRajam4x4]

@@natedagreat6704 we were the exact same pace for 2 years before he got the DD

[@neilbezuidenhout9284]

​@@VishnuRajam4x4 FYI..... The difference could also be based on the talent/skill which he has over you. I'm using a t300 and there are people that use a dd and are not close to my pace..... But also on the other hand, there are peeps who are. The gear is not going to make you fast, seat time is....

[@nukedogger86]

Not shocked. Honestly if you are a good and consistent driver with one wheel, you will most likely be good and consistent with another. Many moons ago I did some testing between my G27 and my brother's T500. Once I got used to the higher ffb, I was running similar enough times and consistency. Upgrading wheels more or less comes down to feel and in some cases power, obviously not in this comparo for power. If you are looking for a new wheel, as in you didn't have one, this type of comparo really highlights what your options are like and what to sort of expect.

[@RacingWithChuck27]

Shaun, I’ve been in sim racing probably about as long as you. The DD is and has been one of the last high upgrade for me, and I’ve debated for a while. I bought a set of CTS(CST) pedals when they were the best around 2010. Had a t500 And several Sam Maxwell Momo rims. Became disabled 2104-18, sold it all. Came back and went with a t300. About two months ago, purchased Simtrecs from v3(not half as good as CST), 5+ tenths I’ve improved. The marketing on the DD bases they’ve done a great job, imo more immersive they’re not going to get the performance gain as a high line pedal, imo. I’m just not paying $2500 for a simucube & rim. Folks across the pond have been saying good things about the TM dd. We won’t get the opportunity to buy until March, maybe you’ll get your hands on one sooner. Good video 👍

[@simonoregan4744]

During COVID here in South Africa I could only get the TGT II locally. I was not disappointed. Seeing as I had an old T500RS previously and I had that wheel. I only had to buy the TGT II base. It was a no brainer from a price & supply & support standpoint.

[@jamesfranko5098]

I went from a t300 to a t gt and didn't feel huge difference. Maybe 10-20 better feeling. Nothing crazy. Seems like DD is hardly better.

[@reviewforthetube6485]

Something nobody will tell you is. Thede 5 to 7 or 8nm belt wheels feel stronger then 5 to 8 dd wheels. Just the way the belt and motor is pulling feels stronger then the way magnets react in a dd wheel. Ive alwyas understood why dd wheles feel better in the hugher nm range even if you were to lower settings a bit. For me it took about 15nm to truely undrrstand why dd is so so good not just in smoothness but the reaction and response and snap with that extra torque. Even if resucing down to 8nm its still worth having a 15+ nm wheelbase thats dd. If i didnt finslly get to try the stronger ones i would have stuck with my cswv2.5 because yes i liked it more then any 5 to 8nm dd wheel on the market. But I will say 1 full second is the difference between winning and losing many times over again. Lol But yes you wont gain times with either of these.

[@wagonet]

Great video. Love my r5

[@CrazyAboutVinylRecords]

I ended up buying the Thrustmaster TGTII, though I was seriously considering the Moza R5 bundle and Ras1ution 2 converter (I do PC and PS5 racing.) Ultimately it came down to me not wanting to have to fiddle with a middleware device to get things working on the PS5. The difference in cost was that the Thrustmaster was about $60 more than the R5 + Ras1ution 2 setup. If I only did PC racing I would have bought the R5 bundle. I don't think you can go wrong either way.

[@nflisrigged1395]

Thrustmaster makes AMAZING wheels . Even a t-150 is flat out amazing , my tspc racer I upgraded too , is lovely too. They offer a TON of wheel rims.

[@PageCrowes]

I picked the GT2 (open box discount) because Im only playing Gt7 with psvr2 and using next level racing hf8 thru simhub on pc thru ps5. The immersion is simply awesome my friends. The extra Immersion the wheel gives you for gt7 is pretty cool with the transducer and vibrations in wheel.

[@tmoshamo]

So the tl;dr is....if you have the tgt 2, dont upgrade unless it breaks, or you just really want a wheel rim thats only compatible with a dd base, or you just want to😎 thank you for the video shaun. Peace✌

[@jackr.749]

Hi Shaun, I hope you are well. Idea for a video, belt drive wheels vs DD wheels for catching slides. I went from a T500 to a Accuforce V2 Pro just about 3 years ago, the first thing I noticed was how easy it was to catch slides with the AF V2 as compared to the T500.

[@oktc68]

I noticed the same going from the TS-PC to the CSL DD, catching slides with the TS-PC was always very difficult, with the CSL DD it's instinctive.

[@FROOB202]

Want to know how sad I am? That car sound at the end of this video is from a 19Bozzy92 video featuring a Lamborghini Huracan leaving the pits at Monza, in his most popular "best of" compilation I think.

[@mr6291]

I have a CSW 2.5. I was able to try the CSL DD for a few days. I decided against buying the CSL DD. I could feel some improvements, but they weren't enough to justify me purchasing the unit. Looks like, if I do want to upgrade, I'll probably need to save up for a bigger upgrade (and I'm not sure I'd run the wheel at a much higher force).

[@oktc68]

Similar experience, I had the TS-PC, tried the CSL DD 8Nm, the difference isn't huge. I did switch to the CSL DD though, so my nephew could have the TS-PC. I tried the Fanatec belt driven wheelbases but didn't click with them but the CSL DD has much better FFB imo and seems to remove a slight amount of latency that is experienced with belt driven bases.

[@oktc68]

I had a TS-PC, it was (and remains) a solid and reliable bit of kit and makes more sense for the PC and is cheaper than the T-GT. I replaced it with the CSL DD 8Nm mainly so I could give the TS-PC to my nephew. To anyone getting into sim racing in 2024 I'd have to recommend direct drive though, definitely avoid the gear driven Logitech, (which is still capable) I only say this because if you find sim racing isn't your thing it'll be easier to sell a direct drive wheelbase than any belt driven base. Good pedals make more difference to lap times though.

[@TheSimpit]

For sure it's a great wheel, but I agree with DD prices in 2024, DD is the go to now.

[@roderickkennedy2192]

Hey, hope your well.

[@martymet]

possible shootout: t300rs (still a very popular wheelbase) vs csldd 5nm. price is similar. i think itd be interesting because everyone gives the t300rs high praises, and many give the 5nm fanatec criticism and recommend an immediate upgrade to the 8nm. but this may be a natural progression for many people moving from belt drive to direct drive.

[@SSmallwood]

i had t300rsgt after my g920. then last year i got the dd8nm, WOW the difference was bigger than going from the g920 to the t300! it was such an incredible upgrade. i tried the 5nm power supply as well and can say that the dd is still very much superior to the t300. but the 5nm is lacking imo, when you hook up the big psu it feels like its been unleashed. its even quicker to react, top speed of rotation is faster and of course the strength just makes it feel complete. now it has been just over a year since i got the dd and i crave more. i want to be able to get the feel of no power steering better than the dd can

[@Substance2020]

Had the logitech G25 for many years and wanted a quality upgrade but didn't have a clue and thought trustmaster were at the top of the game for wheels and so I bought the GT2. Was devastated when I unboxed it to find it as "nobbly" as the G25 when I expected nice smooth rotation. Hearthbroken when investigating DD and now stuck with the GT2. BUT maybe I shouldn't be...the FF is good, the build quality is there, it's 6NM is strong enough and it does the job while being significantly cheaper than the top DD wheels and with plenty of buttons and reasonably good looking.. SO , I dunno...still haven't experienced DD to tell if I should be crying myself to sleep or not but I will never like the nobbly rotation that's for sure. It's also got an idle high pitched whine from the mechanism which I don't appreciate.

[@PageCrowes]

be happy my friend. Dont forgot real cars are hooked up to rack and pinion with a belt (nothing wrong with belt drive). I myself got caught up on all the dd hype myself and played a very nice dd moza wheel that cost like 3k that didn't blow me away at all my friend. iTs just all the dd hype all over youtube and most of the reviewers having to give good reviews. Im loving my tgt2 with transducer my 3 different rims, tlcm pedals and next level racing hf8 haptic pad running thru simhub for gt7 just have to have both ps5 and pc on same private network to get live data. love the immersion in gt7 vr2 its the only way I play. When your tgt2 goes then you move to dd my friend.

[@dustincriddle]

Where are u getting these prices,

[@airtonaraujo3972]

I have a DIY BD steering wheel with a huge motor and reduction... it's hard to hold, never set it higher than 60% of force.

[@sergeyyakovlev9085]

Great review, but don't you think your expirience is high enougth to reduce any advantages/disadvantages of both wheels. I mean you can match lap times on super cheap wheels if you want. Another question is rookie will get almost same result on both of them?

[@jamesfranko5098]

He's getting identical lap times and saying they also feel incredibly similar so what other metrics are there to separate them?

[@sergeyyakovlev9085]

@@jamesfranko5098 you think everybody will get same results as he did?

[@jamesfranko5098]

@@sergeyyakovlev9085 yeah. From most comparisons I've seen people say there isn't much difference. I hAve a t get and I'm never going to upgrade. It seems pointless. It's excellent

[@DoubleAgent25]

He's far from a rookie dude lmao. Shawn's been around since you were in short pants.

[@MohammadMohammad-kl6yt]

Hello shown col IN my openion the Main object of using haigh sim racing equipments is to get a realestic feeling and closer to realety not to go fast if i want to go fast i well use the game pad

[@joonakankainen9352]

TGTII for 599€ is a good deal for PS5 GT7?

[@aztronomy7457]

As someone who takes my miata to the track regularly, belt drive just doesn't feel like driving a car. It feels weird. Almost like theres a delay in the wheel (T300 RS GT). The direct drive feels far more accurate. The amount of torque is sort of irrelevant.

[@nflisrigged1395]

My TS-PC Racer , 6.4nm Is so good to me.

[@Cicerots2Santiago]

os dois volantes são excelentes, no Brasil infelizmente são muito caros, o moza cerca de uns 900 mais barato, peguei o TGT II , mas se tivesse visto este video antes talvez teria mudando de escolha, mas já foi kkkk

[@ab8jeh]

R5 is a much better option, the quick release is amazing and is simply built better than Thrustmaster products and with less plastic. The only issue is the console thing, but really it's time to get a decent PC instead if you're thinking of getting a DD wheel.

[@robertcarr4172]

How on earth can a belt driven base feel quicker in counter rotation? Mind blown

[@kontoname]

Uhm... what do you mean? That is always the case as the DD doesn't have any gearing to catch the torque of a wheel once going. They also depend much more on filters because only few like the feel of a raw direct drive. That exactly is the problem around DD's - everyone just thinks "DD = better" which is simply not true. Traditionally it's like this: belt driven feels more filtered by design as the belt catches some of the raw ripple intensitiy. DD feels more sluggish due to filters and the lack of gearing, means the only component that can hold torque is the motor itself which also get's blown out by overlapping effects (much like a single membrane speaker which you ask to play lows highs and mids).

[@jimbonater]

I find it hard to believe. I have an R5 running with no filters and 100% wheel speed and it spins incredibly fast running the max torque output. You can set the speed to 200% which I haven't done as 100% is almost too fast. Even at 30% its very quick spinning.

[@Charzilian]

Direct drive kinda scares me tbh

[@natedagreat6704]

Yeah I’ve heard just getting bumped by another person hurts so bad And the fact that it has enough power to rip off your arm is Crazy

[@jimbonater]

That's one good thing about the R5 it might be able to hurt you if you are careless, but it would take some doing. The R9 could easily harm you as even the R5 with 5.5 Nm occasionally surprise's me and pops free from my grip and man does that wheel move fast!

[@slaphead90]

THANK YOU - I got absolutely butt****ed by the Sim Racing members on reddit, not that I actually care, for saying the same thing. God I hate sim racers, even though I am one.

[@caliginousmoira8565]

like guys, i just came for help or i just gave my thoughts/opinion ..... i don't even ask/'speak' any more i just read and move on...

[@bobk4438]

I know your feeling. I hate people.

[@voongnz]

Most are cool, but yeah the are quite a few shthead kids that gatekeep what sim you use, what gear you use, how fast you are etc etc. All arguing on who is the superior wannabe racer. I tend to avoid that reddit cesspool.

[@davebell771]

Hello Shaun

[@squashedflyracing2310]

Iracing has the worst ffb to other sims and probably would have been a better test iff say you done this test on AAC or Rfactor maybe dirtrally..

[@MrKingNica]

Actually having driving sneakers on while using a sim wheel looks so cringey

[@b9bot148]

Price wise the Moza is a bargain compared to the TGTII at $150 cheaper.

[@freekshow]

How can we rule out the fact that Moza rim has a faster look, while the TGT wheel clearly has down syndrome