These EVs are depreciating by 4% PER MONTH!!!

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‪@EdBolian‬ shares some unexpected market insight on the values of high end electric cars.
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#VINwiki #EV #ElectricCars

[@VINwiki]

Get 10% off your first month of therapy at betterhelp.com/vinwiki.

[@CoreyCat4]

EVs are not the answer, but viable alternatives to driving so people who prefer to drive will enjoy it more than they would when everyone's forced to drive.

[@JWooden271]

That was one heck of a sponsor segue

[@guywebster8018]

What happened to our cartrek Christmas this year? 😢

[@pietreins]

Petition to have an Ed Bolian market analysis every month please! this was really useful

[@carrot_exe]

Ed Bolian and Doug Demuro teaming up for market analysis would be extremely cool

[@Matt_B0309]

This comment needs to be pinned

[@invictusaeternum]

Just here saying I agree.

[@nitegrip908]

Agreed! This needs to be a monthly VINwiki!

[@kylem2010GT]

There is a KZbinr "Fourwheel Trader" and that is his wheelhouse. Keep Ed telling interesting car stories.

[@ashp5406]

Like Ed I also got into 5 year old GLS (getting out of warranty) and tried to compensate with third party warranty, but after getting estimate on leaky ac lines by dealership looks like betterhelp should also be part of the warranty

[@gilberttorres8]

Any European car is garbage

[@sesshomarudogdemon7794]

If I waited a month longer to sell my model Y it would’ve gone from $60K to $30K

[@theaterlightman89]

I was able to pick up a p85d for 24,999 and got a 4k tax credit, 21k for a car that goes 0-60 in 3 seconds isnt bad

[@fromalandfarfaraway4192]

Before the Covid Pandemic we have seen depreciation of at least 40% within the first three months for any combustion engine car here in Germany. Now we look at used car appreciation, for my car, in 2015 purchased as 2months old at 50% MSRP, now valued at 40% MSRP with 210.000km on the clock due to a depleted used car market.

[@francoisfranceschini7947]

At least 40% depreciation in the first 3 months? Sounds like a tax problem, cars dont lose 40% value in 90 days

[@raghuveer8137]

Seems to be a german problem. Even by tax accounting standards, ICE vehicles lose only 20% a year.

[@fromalandfarfaraway4192]

@@francoisfranceschini7947 cars did lose 40% in 3 months and it has nothing to do with taxes you should differentiate the depreciation in market value of a car and depreciation when applied on your P&L statement. Two different things. Company vehicles are depreciated in 6 to 8 years, depending on type of vehicle for tax purposes.

[@fromalandfarfaraway4192]

@@raghuveer8137, cars did lose 40% in 3 months and it has nothing to do with taxes you should differentiate the depreciation in market value of a car and depreciation when applied on your P&L statement. Two different things. Company vehicles are depreciated in 6 to 8 years, depending on type of vehicle for tax purposes.

[@epi2045]

Best car I have ever owned is a Ferrari F430 60th Anniversary. After 3 years of ownership, it appreciated almost $50K. Basically paying me $1,400/mo to own it.

[@VINwiki]

Get 10% off your first month of therapy at betterhelp.com/vinwiki.

[@jamesbambury]

This is one of the better videos you have done in a while, I love the mix of entertaining and informative content!!

[@acarguy3562]

The value of EV’s can be traced back to the early Prius’s and other Hybrid’s. Battery replacement cost’s, out of warranty repair costs and parts availability have killed the resale value of out of warranty Hybrids. EV’s will be the same moving forward. The general population is not ready for large repair bills that essentially ground the vehicles until fixed. In the ICE era, minor repairs were able to be done relatively inexpensive in comparison to repairing a Hybrid or EV. Now, if the center screen goes down, you loose most of the functionality of the vehicle. So you HAVE to spend the prevailing price just to drive your vehicle. So these new EV’s and high technology vehicles will be essentially bricks when the cost to repair them becomes too much. Imagine paying $1000 to fix a 10 year old IPhone…. Not going to happen.

[@SnappyWasHere]

I feel sorry for anyone who paid way over sticker for any car in the last couple years, I think that depreciation is gonna get bad over the next year.

[@mexicanspec]

Don't feel sorry for them, that was their decision.

[@mylesgray3470]

I just bought a Tesla model Y last summer and I’m SO SO glad I waited. Saved like $20k in losses over a couple years. Now it’s a $50k car, only slightly higher than the average car sale place in the US leaving a lot less downside. Will still fall like a rock, but it’s closer to the ground.

[@chiplangowski3298]

@@mylesgray3470 - I bought my Model Y last summer too. With tax credits, it was actually less than the average car. It is the people that paid $80k plus a $10,000 market adjustment for a F150 or Dodge Ram that will be way underwater once the rebates return to those.

[@Atlas.X9X]

I have to give you props for sharing your experience using Better Help. Nicely done.

[@Wesley-rn7oc]

He was paid to read a script. I've heard 50 KZbinrs share the same experience.

[@chiplangowski3298]

I have two EVs. I measure the actual purchase price the amount paid minus the tax credits. For example, my Model Y was $50,000 minus $12,500 in tax credits for an actual purchase price of $37,500. Depreciation is what the current resale value is subtracted from that actual purchase price. Too many people want to subtract resale value from MSRP or MSRP plus some nebulous "market adjustment" premium that was paid when the model was first introduced. Commodity cars are an expense, not an investment.

[@kevinamayne]

Just wait till they’re in need of their first battery service. Wonder what happens to the value then.

[@lavawolf666]

well also there is aproblem, the battery life, the most of the car value is on perishable part

[@veno8mm]

Please consider using an in video ad progress bar please.

[@ShonTolliverMusic]

The more depreciated the car is, (typically) the more miles it has, and the less serviceable use you have left. As a car approaches 120K+ miles, the maintenance expenses double. So now you've bought a car with less drivable miles left on it, no warranty, and lots of maintenance.

[@generickwyjibo]

Ok, that is the best segue for an ad read I've ever heard.

[@nowayout20042003]

EV markets the world over is crumbling, we’re seeing the same here in Europe. People want petrol & diesel cars & thankfully are snubbing EV’s thank god

[@DanielPearson1]

Value, worth, and price are not exactly the same. If the VALUE of a car is $9,500, and it sells used for $9,500, that's pretty normal. But if it was originally worth $10,000 and priced at $10,000, that's 5% depreciation. But if it was originally worth $10,000, and the manufacturer priced it at $90,000, that's not depreciation, that's just stupid.

[@1st_Gen_Life]

So within a year a lot of the people who bought brand new EV cars are already under water.

[@MattH-wg7ou]

This ultimately comes down to "you will own nothing and be happy" like so many other top down pressures.

[@jstogdill]

I buy and keep my cars for 10 or more years. But if I were to buy an EV right now it would be on a three year lease. The technology is changing quickly and the battery pack longevity remains a little bit unknown.

[@rightwingsafetysquad9872]

Unless you buy a Tesla. Then the technology hasn't changed in 15 years and the battery longevity is extremely well known.

[@jstogdill]

@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 Fair point. Not to make it a thing, but as long as Musk owns Tesla I will never buy one.

[@dannysdailys]

This whole EV thing is a big joke. Our biggest problem is figuring out a way the throw them away. And what happens in the states that use road salt in the Winter? Brine is one of the most corrosive and conductive substances out there. These things are going to start burning up is what they're going to do. Then what????

[@SaarlaneKretiin]

man, its like no one saw this coming(it was super obvious)

[@user-ben45]

Calculating depreciation using original MSRP at the time the vehicle was purchased is less relevant for new buyers than calculating depreciation using current MSRP. The second is more likely to be representative of depreciation that new buyers will face going forward - and will likely have a greater effect on new vehicle purchases. How does the current analysis change using current MSRP's, at least for Tesla. With Plaid, for new buyers, the question is can Tesla drop the MSRP another ~30% on top of the drops they already took. I doubt it. The real story is the unprecedented drops in Tesla MSRP (and reversal of unprecedented dealer MSRP markups) and how that will affect buyer behavior going forward.

[@georges9402]

There's no such thing as a free lunch

[@GabrielKlute]

other issue driving prices down right now is that interest rates are high.

[@jasonpatterson2143]

You need to do collaborations with Fourwheel Trader. Dude is the master at depreciation analysis.

[@wjkalana100]

Electric cars will depreciate at accelerated rate until the technology becomes mature enough so 3 years later you won’t feel like you are owning a brick. Cell phones used to be like this in about 10 years ago but now it’s not the case anymore. For electric cars it will take about another 10-20 years until the technology to be mature enough so cars can hold their value better.

[@bedlambikes]

The EV government "fueled" hype has been exposed. About time.

[@ozarkliving7263]

Exactly

[@Bob_Smith19]

Not fueled by the government. Paid for w/ your tax dollars. The people buying them are getting free money because of you.

[@sergiogarcia9822]

Let’s see the collections appraisals with updated market prices

[@chassdesk]

Always a buyer at some price point for plaid, tycan ect.

[@jerome2844]

The Jaguar I-pace is the best used EV car in this moment

[@Busyhandman]

We got to get Ed on Jay Leno now

[@N.A.82]

The car market going down is the best news I’ve heard in WEEKS!

[@Miata822]

People hate the high interest rates but cutting ridiculous markup is actually what that is for. good to see it working.

[@TMartn3]

Yes and no, you do realize if people loose large margins the economy will hurt across the board.

[@tylerbraud5960]

You understand car prices are a flag of economic strength and if they crash then the economy can.. think 08 housing crisis

[@zadianvwhgaming]

@@tylerbraud5960 08 housing crisis was caused artificially lol

[@aclark9869]

​@@zadianvwhgamingshhhhhh nobody got time for that.

[@clam_baked]

Tax credits for EVs are absolutely killing the used EV market especially in the first year.

[@RobbaKeef]

I'm pretty sure they are offering tax credits on certain used EVs in the United States now.

[@clam_baked]

@@RobbaKeef Not at the federal level although there are some state incentives for used EVs depending on the state, your income, and many other factors hidden in the fine print that makes it all very confusing. (Colorado is a good example)

[@RobbaKeef]

@@clam_baked I double checked and found this "Pre-owned all-electric, plug-in hybrid, and fuel cell electric vehicles purchased on or after January 1, 2023, may be eligible for a federal income tax credit. The credit equals 30% percent of the sale price up to a maximum credit of $4,000." fueleconomy.gov

[@Bob_Smith19]

How about no tax credit and let the free market decide the winners. I don’t want my tax money going to purchase any vehicle.

[@joshuagibson2520]

A gimmick is a gimmick is a gimmick.

[@Ultimatebubs]

If I bought a Ford "Mustang" Mach-E and had it drop in value by 30% in a year, I'd be depressed as well!

[@VINwiki]

Good news! BetterHelp is ready.

[@m1k3vroom]

You do realize that amount of depreciation is not much above normal. There are not many cars you can buy that will hold their value a year later. 15-25% is the average and over a 5 year period the average value lost from the retail price is 60%. In general cars are not a good investment for most people.

[@HAHA.GoodMeme]

@@m1k3vroom *Laughs in Toyota*

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

@@HAHA.GoodMeme bz4X? Yes, i'd laugh. This thing is just hilarious.

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

@@m1k3vroomcars are not a investment.

[@sparkkie804]

You know you're doing well in life when your buying Land Rovers as they go out of warranty lol

[@VINwiki]

Or really poorly, just depends on the perspective!

[@FriendlieGhost]

I buy my land rovers with a CPO. Apparently I’m not doing that well in life yet. But hey, I have a Range Rover 🤷🏻‍♂️ Btw. What they say is true.

[@sam0wings]

@@FriendlieGhostwhat do they say? That they’re terribly unreliable and expensive to fix? 😂

[@chir0pter]

Huge flex tbh if you maintain or restore it to new

[@mexicanspec]

No, you are just giving up on life.

[@SharpblueCreative]

MacMaster in the U.K. paid £120k on a Porsche Taycan EV nearly 2 years ago. He recently had it valued because he’s sick of the charging infrastructure here being crap. £40k was the best offer.

[@carlgarrett5142]

😫

[@KingLarbear]

Yikes

[@bigal3055]

That's not quite accurate about the £40k being his best offer. He did get a "significantly" (he's still looking at an even more significant loss though) better offer shortly after that forty grand offer. That being said however, Lee's financial situation with his Taycan is still every bit at dire as you quite rightly think it is. For anyone who doesn't know what has gone on with Lee's ( The MacMaster) Taycan, Lee and Geoff Buys Cars did a valuation on Lee's Taycan through WeBuyAnyCar in the U.K, who are notorious for offering way, way below market value (then knocking thousands more off high enders for every single minor defect) and they did indeed get a valuation of about £40k. Lee took it to a Porsche main dealer not long afterwards though, hoping to be able to get rid and into a Cayman. I haven't seen an update vid from him yet on when he's going to sign on the dotted line, but even the Porka main dealer was confident that they could significantly improve on WBAC's offer. Lee's Taycan is a high miler (relatively speaking), so it was below the market average, Porsche are never going to give you the best price you could get if you shopped around, or sold privately either and I can't remember the exact offer he got to part-ex the Taycan in for the Cayman without going back and watching the video again (I think it was either bang on 48k, or a mid-low low 50something), but even with the improved offer, it still wasn't enough to cover the extra he needed at the time to buy the Cayman. I got the impression he had made his mind up though, but just needed to find some more cash from somewhere to cover the extra the Cayman would be to drive it away. Either way, that is a massive depreciation on the Taycan over just two years. Seventy grand! And that's in proper money too. I'm not sure what the exchange rate on the dollar is at the moment, but that can't be far off a hundred grand USD, for the rest of the world to understand just how far down on its arse the U.K eleccy car market is now. As if that wasn't a big enough kick in the bollocks for him though, in the video his current monthly payments on the Taycan came to light too... and they were north of £1200 PCM. 1200 quid a MONTH! On a 2 year old car that's already scoused you for 70 grand before you even list it and then is still only worth around 50k now, has cost you just shy of 30k in repayments in just two years and in the best possible kind of hypothetical scenario now open to Lee if he sells today, at absolute best will see him walk away with about twenty grand in his pocket. I mean, on a £120k car, that's already pretty devastating. The actuality of it in the real world though, it's going to be a much, much bigger financial leathering for him. I don't know what sort of deal, if any, he got on interest payments when he got that Taycan, but let's say that even if he got a 0% interest deal over a typical three year term (which I guarantee it won't have been, even with the near zero percentage base rate a couple of years ago) and even if his Taycan doesn't depreciate any further (which I guarantee it will) and even in the hypothetical dreamland of a zero sum down payment (which, with a Porsche main dealer, I guarantee it wasn't), when he comes to part-ex it on another car at the end of three years, he's likely to see a net £0 return on that Taycan. In reality, on top of what he has already paid on a car that he'll see zero return on, he'll be lucky if he's not out of pocket to the tune of an extra 20-30 grand by then with further depreciation and another 12 month of finance repayments with real world interest rates, minimum. Even by cutting his losses and ditching the Taycan now, if there's an early repayment clause for the outstanding term in the finance agreement... and there's a pretty good chance there will be and an even better chance that with the way that the Taycan is depreciating like a rock and Porsche already can't shift the Taycans they have on the lots now, they will hold him to it... he's still going to lose his arse on that car. If he has put a down payment on the car, which in the real world, I assume he has, and with it being Porsche, I don't imagine it would have been a never ending "£99 upfront.This weekend only!" offer either, I wouldn't be surprised if there's at least another twenty grand or so out of his own pocket that's just gone up in smoke there too. For all the difference it'd make to Lee's return on that car, even if he sells it today and even with the best finance agreement the world has ever known, it might as well have had a £150k+ screen price when he 'bought' it... on a two year old car that's probably worth less than £50k today and falling like a stone every extra day that he keeps it for. Right now, from the financial point of view from Lee's perspective, that two year old, £120 grand car is literally worthless, if not already a net loss. Given that it lunches tyres at three hundred quid a corner every 8 months and it's depreciating faster than you could ever hope to even recoup through saved fuel costs over the couple of years he's had it too, it's not even got the "Ah, but it's cheaper to run" argument on its side. Honestly, two new rears at £600 a pop every 8 months?! That's about how much I'd spend in peccy in 8 months, my car wouldn't need two new boots at the end too and my household eleccy bill wouldn't have increased any through charging the bloody thing every night either, as would neither my insurance premium, which are now also on the rise for E.V's here. In real world, day to day running cost terms, it is literally cheaper to run my also two year old petrol C-Class (that came out service just last month, for £ree for the first three years on the deal I got, with still 4.5 mil on the original tyres). It cost more than half of what Lee's Taycan cost to buy, it costs less to run on a day to day basis and if I sold today too, where as Lee's best case scenario is that he'd make £0 return, my worst case is that I'd walk away with about thirty grand in my pocket, or about twenty six to twenty seven on a part-ex. I appreciate that there's a world of difference between a Porsche and a mid range C-Class, but that's not in any way a validation for the size of the bollock that Lee dropped and the subsequent financial kicking that he's inevitably going to get after he 'paid' £120k for something that still had all the practicality issues and severely lacking support infrastructure that E.V's for half the price also encountered even then, issues that were already starting to dampen people's enthusiasm for them two years ago. Man, he's had his pants pulled down and been royally spanked there!

[@kabob21]

@@bigal3055 I have no idea why you think anybody’s reading this novel about some random dude and his Porsche EV’s depreciation

[@bigal3055]

@kabob21 If 7 or 8 paragraphs is too much for you, you wouldn't be able to handle a novel.

[@Miata822]

This is a unique time in the economy. Doug Demuro had some detail to flesh that out today from his hands-on dealing with the market in all high end cars, not just electric. It seems that EV are getting all the press about falling prices, but your recent Porsche 911 doesn't have the trade-in value it had just six months ago either.

[@deanchur]

JayEmm on Cars released a good video about a week ago on Porsche depreciation as well (UK-centric).

[@Miata822]

@@deanchur I saw that. On Tuesday Bloomberg had an article about the collapse of the luxury watch (Rolex, Patek) resale market. I am sure there will still be a luxury product market, just not so many people willing to go into debt for those goods.

[@squid_fish]

I’d be depressed if I considered buying a Mustang EV SUV

[@EdBolian]

The crazy thing is that a lot of these sold at the peak of the market with dealer markups on top.

[@donactdum6635]

Hey man, I know this is a really rough time in your life what with Rob’s passing. But you should rlly stop using BetterHelp as a sponsor, like ever. They’re an awful company.

[@bradleyhanlon]

Got an early reservation for a Lightning XLT. I drove it for 3 months and surprise! I was disappointed with the decrease in range while towing. MSRP increased 3 times during my ownership so I was easily able to sell for what was the adjusted MSRP. Not what I intended to do, but glad it worked out. I’ll by another EV one day, but probably not a truck

[@ICKY427]

ya unfortunately electric isnt really suited to hauling. basically, gas engines are so inefficient to begin with, that when you push them hard they dont really lose much. you might go from getting 25mpg to 20. but electric cars are REALLY efficient, so when you ask more of it, you pay for it proportionally.

[@Rapido20]

Get the cybertruck

[@lincolnmarklt]

But didn't you know? Didn't you look into it before you dropped 100k? I knew they would be crap. Wish I still had my 6.2 limited.

[@BevanWard]

yeah, they will be good one day. Maybe another 10 years in battery tech

[@kabob21]

@@lincolnmarklt They’re not crap. Just well-suited for certain activity like commuting and not so for others.

[@MrROTD]

Low mileage 10 year old cars are the sweet spot but hard to find.

[@MrJturner74]

The problem is the infrastructure can't handle a changeover without bringing a few nuclear power plants online in every country.

[@MitchM240]

The problem is dealers will not accept the new reality. I was told by a sales manager that they would rather sell at a loss at an auction then give the customer a good deal. The eco is nuts!!

[@MrMadvillan]

it may be the same for real estate; a developer would rather have empty units, write off the loss than face the real market value.

[@BeenNoticing]

Love how everyone is sticking to "the market isn't ready" instead of just saying "people don't want them". Its just that simple.

[@MattH-wg7ou]

Yup thats the truth. Battery pack degrade, charging hassles/infrastructure/etc. Fire hazards. No thanks. We just dont want an EV. Thats why they have to mandate them. If this werent the truth there would be no mandates, it would just happen. And more efficiently.

[@charlesmoss8119]

The worst thing is tax take being spent to sell private owned companies cars to private people. Cars should sell on their merits. Instead we had cars being marked up by a demand fuelled partly by tax pounds (I’m over the pond but it’s the same shtick) which of course isn’t visible in the second hand market where ‘real’ money has to pay.

[@beamdriver5]

What I'm hearing here is that if you're looking to get into an EV right now, a used E-Tron is a super great deal. If I had to get a new daily for the missus, that's what I'd be looking at, although I'd have to worry she'd forget to charge it like she forgets to charge her cell phone all the time. I wouldn't buy a new EV right now. I think the technology is growing by leaps and bounds and the EV models you'll be able to buy in five years will be so much better than the ones you can buy now that there will be enormous depreciation.

[@allegorx58]

Sorry to break it to ya bud, but she doesn’t forget to charge her phone.

[@someonethatwatchesyoutube2953]

You’re wrong about the “technology growing by leaps and bounds” though. It’s not and the people who believe these falsehoods are similar to those 1940s Germans awaiting the “secret super weapon” that would save their asses. 😂

[@scottcochrane638]

Just go get there one there great fun mate

[@lamarshealey3332]

Great take. For most people if you want to keep one of these vehicles for only 1 to 3 years only just lease it 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@peterga3658]

those prices are wield . ppl will pay 130 140 170k to buy a regular looking sedan . wow....

[@lordjoshr]

I know the Teslas have gone down $55,000 for a new one finding cheaper ways to make them which is part of getting something new, but I wander if the others have had new prices lower, because plaid X was $150,000 but now $94,000 so of course who would by used when new is less

[@bryangilmer671]

Tesla’s price slashing changes the relative value proposition for all 1-year-old electric cars

[@johnsonrepp]

My favorite guest on vinwiki is Ed.

[@Alex_49_YT]

My problem with EVs is the fact that batteries lose range over time. This is because a chemical reaction in the battery releases electrical energy and if you put a current through the battery to recharge the reaction is reversed, but in chemical reactions you never get as much useful product as possible. Something's always lost. Therefore I'd never buy a used EV, or an EV at all, because the good old combustion engine does not lose range like that. It might suffer if it's worn, the efficiency drops, but not as fast or as dramatic as with EVs

[@tekdomination8909]

That and also the battery degrades as it ages, regardless if it’s used much or not.

[@johnhender]

Buy a used EV is a huge risk - it is like buying a financial Hand grenade - No one tells the truth about the Battery lifespan, The battery is where the value is the car around it is basically worthless

[@opykanoba8367]

Free by 2 years time

[@ibrahim-iby4262]

Your maths is worrying

[@akilh340]

I think they're joking

[@woodyholland9865]

Plug in electrics makes no sense to me. Not enough charging stations to make them useful for traveling. I bought a hybrid Ford Maverick and get 40 MPG and i could sell it now for $5K more than I paid.

[@CatChase957]

I bought a Tesla Model 3 performance... in 6 months it dropped 20k lmfao. Nothing else is good in the class, but I need to get rid of it for the sake of my sanity

[@87ricer]

It's a spoof to make ev affordable to sway the switch to ev

[@loadedhot1034]

The problem with the EV market is there isn't enough charging stations. They put the cart before the horse and no one can charge them. I live in a town of 30,000 people with a Dll University of 7,000 students and there is 1 charging station within 50 miles of town, and its at a hotel for guest only.

[@jasono2139]

Wait until you see the price for electricity at the private ones that aren't free!! 🤣 I literally skipped recharging my PHEV at a museum because it was cheaper to run on gasoline than recharge the battery... and this was when gas was $4/gal!

[@MrDmitriRavenoff]

Nobody want a used EV because they dont want the cost of the inevitable battery replacement. It might not happen for many years but I wouldn't want a car that needs a new "engine" every 5-10 years.

[@mystic316]

I bought my EV a bit too early given the recent massive price drops, guess I’ll just keep it use it as long I can.

[@mattmayo3539]

As someone who solely buys used cars. 3-5 years old has generally been the standard. Love the phrase “looks like you won the lottery in…” we’ve always felt that way.

[@VINwiki]

Where do you think the EV market is headed?

[@somethingfunny6867]

in the toilet. billions wasted and will take 2-3 big players out when the bubble bursts.

[@Goobnav]

Dear Ed and the gang. The EV Market is dead, just like back in the late 70's when Carter tried to push it. The Ramcharger, perfect example, its a hybrid, not a complete EV, Toyota is more focused on hybrids and not really going deep into the EV fray, not enough infrastructure and the "Infrastructure" bill has no real incentives for making the grid bigger and better for EV Market. Dead and will be completely dead by 2025. The tech and grid are not there and it'll take at least 2 decades to get there at best.

[@raven2785]

Well, I'd say get your rocks off now by buying a big 8 cylinder fast and fun car while you can. Regardless of whether we like it or not, the truth is oil is running out and if it wasn't for fracking, we would be paying more like $8-9 dollars at the pump today due to how limited and controlled oil production would be. So the battery EV is here to stay, while the fun gas car will probably be relegated to a luxury for rich people.

[@sethjennings1045]

DOWN. I think more and more people are realizing that after the cost of admission to EVs combined with all of the practicality compromises that come with it, the value is just not there. I just got rid of my Model Y and went back to ICE. It's so much better.

[@Ultimatebubs]

Probably not good in the short term for every auto manufacturer making EV's who isn't Tesla or Kia. They all seem to be struggling to put out decent 1st generation products at a reasonable price.

[@deltas4764]

These EVs are Mobile phones on wheels. Haven't seen much of a difference in 2nd hand Smartphone and EV markets.

[@ozarkliving7263]

People are realizing what a giant pain in the butt electric vehicles are.

[@jasono2139]

*some... it all depends on how you use it. For a commuter car, they wouldn't be too bad... as a long road trip vehicle, absolutely not!

[@Nat3d]

Great video! Coming from a 24 year old who was very interested in EV at first I say nay! Make Hybrids but keep petroleum products handy

[@greyson194]

the great leap forward for the auto market 🤭 EVs are the greatest example of wanting cake and trying to eat it too. state side lithium mining or the whole industry is robbing Americans blind

[@sarahdell4042]

EV are being crammed down our throats. Endless journalists are being paid to shill them even. I personally feel everyone who wanted one has one, and inventory isn’t moving like manufacturers hoped. Love to see it

[@Bob_Smith19]

Johnny Liberman takes offense and being called a paid shill 😂

[@sarahdell4042]

@@Bob_Smith19 Ha! He’s one of the worst, and his crowd of endlessly shaming anyone who doesn’t live in CA. Yet they all bow to the feet of a pedo and name drop him any chance they can.

[@patrickm4566]

I couldn’t agree more.

[@Kal47]

should've bought a lexus

[@ZSPZay]

So glad I didn’t buy a Mach-E, tried to buy one when they came out and they were 10-20k over sticker on the east coast when they came out. Got a deal on a TLX Type S at MSRP instead and I couldn’t refuse. Glad I dodged that depreciated bullet 😅

[@diggingattycho7908]

There is no future in EV's even if the government never steps out of it. There is only one reason they exist, to limit your travel. That's what a great number of people in government want.

[@Bob_Smith19]

15 minute cities are the same. They want you in a cage. People think this is all conspiracy theory but the writing has been on the wall for a long time.

[@mplewp]

Im not spending upwards of 20K in car repairs . So dear politicians you can keep your ev crap . My 730D is going very very strong 😇 and 1000km range in 2 minutes :P

[@Meowface.]

Story in the news recently of a guy with an electric Kia It was out of warranty by a few thousand miles, had some problems Took it to Kia dealership They handed him a quote for $50,000 for a battery replacement 50k to fix a Kia Yea, he scrapped it

[@germanstudent06]

I remember seeing a Leaf with 10k miles go for less than $5k and all I could think is "how bad is that thing!?!"

[@sasukesuite1]

Range is like 50 miles in the winter lol

[@jasono2139]

​@@sasukesuite1for real! The battery range of my PHEV gets cut in half during the winter.

[@RobbaKeef]

Anecdotally, I bought a used BMW I3. Drove it for three years for my business and wrote off the mileage. Then sold it. After some rough calculations, I figured I made money driving that car after it was all said and done.💰#goodforme

[@jasono2139]

Considering used i3s were going for $15k... it wouldn't surprise me! 😂

[@RobbaKeef]

@@jasono2139 was a 2017 wRex was $26k w 10k miles

[@gonzoprius3589]

Now I’m curious what the market is for year old hybrids. How are they stacking up against Ev’s?

[@somethingfunny6867]

it ranges depending on how hybrid they are.

[@KrustyKlown]

Hybrids depreciate a lot, because used car buyers care MOSTLY about the price, not the fuel savings. It's a good used car value considering the huge gas cost savings.

[@raven2785]

Well, from personal experience I can tell you they're hot. I tried buying a hybrid last year, I couldn't find one for the life of me, and most dealers told me to just get a new model instead. So that means one of two things: 1. They're selling out almost as soon as they're posted on a dealer. or 2. Most of the hybrid owners are keeping their hybrids (with good reason with gas prices nowadays) and that's creating shortages driving up demand.

[@Bob_Smith19]

@@raven2785That was a year ago. The market is completely different today.

[@mylesgray3470]

@@raven2785Demand for used hybrids is extremely high and has been for a decade here in Seattle, especially Toyotas. These are the cars people buy for ride share and delivery to make a living so competition is always high. My Prius is 10 years old and is still worth about 40% of original MSRP with 150k miles.

[@pearldrums92]

Loving my ‘17 Chevy SS. Nearly depreciation free.

[@andrewkeith5]

Everyone seems to be overlooking how the vehicles are wildly overpriced in the first place - that’s the real problem. The manufacturers have been milking short supply for 3 years and it’s finally coming back to bite them. People have been buying EVs on some false hope that they’ll make back the absurd amount of money they’re spending, but very very few people will save the crazy premium in the time they keep the vehicle.

[@CharlieBam]

Yeah it's happening in other assets too. When interest rates were low, there was a shortage in everything. Now that rates are higher, there will be a surplus. Or at least less of a shortage.

[@jasono2139]

Especially when PHEVs have most of the benefits of an EV with none of the drawbacks... and they don't cost a fortunate to buy (and most qualified for the stupid EV tax credits!) 😂

[@haredr6511]

There’s also the fact that the power train of a well-maintained ICE vehicle can last decades and hundreds of thousands of miles. The same cannot be said for a BEV. Good maintenance will not stop the deterioration of the $20k battery pack. Dropping 40-50% in the first year makes sense, because when they hit 5, they’re basically worthless.

[@jasono2139]

@@haredr6511 I wouldn't call the battery part of the "power train" of an EV anymore than the fuel tank or fuel injectors is part of it in an ICE. Otherwise, you don't seem to have any clue about EVs if you think they're "basically worthless" after 5 years... Tesla batteries are supposed to only have about 10% degradation after 10 years.

[@haredr6511]

@@jasono2139 Actually, I’m highly versed in battery performance and how they’re integrated into EVs. Your 10% degradation happens almost immediately, basically within the fist year, assuming the vehicle is driven easily, on flat land, and in nominal temps. The batteries are massively over-designed so that the consumer can’t use even close to its full capacity when new. Capacity is slowly released as the vehicle ages so that the degradation isn’t immediately apparent. The batteries in EVs are the same as in your phone and laptop, BUT in a much harsher environment that degrades them even faster. It’s inherent in the chemistry and impossible to get around. Go lookup a 5yr old EV. Again, basically worthless. The market is fully aware of the problem, and until there’s full transparency on battery health for used BEVs, they will depreciate massively. You’d never want a BEV from AZ, FL, ND, MN, or any other extreme climate, or one that ever went to the drag strip, or one that was used routinely for spirited driving, or one that was ever put on a so-called “supercharger” station. The market has to assume that all BEVs experienced some of these conditions, and the $20k battery will need to be replaced, hence the depreciation. Oh, and FYI: fuel injectors ARE part of the power train, as they’re integral to the engine.

[@mytunes2922]

NewsFlash! ! Most people who purchased a new car in 2021/2022 suffered huge depreciation due to crazy dealer markups....and that applies to gas and electric cars!

[@artmchugh5644]

I would rather die walking for gas for my Porsche than have one of those slot cars in my driveway!!!!😊😊😊😊❤😁😁😁🚘🚘🍺🍺

[@JohnnyLightningV10]

Soon the battery replacement will be make these cars worthless. Dealerships will be like battery is dying you have to pay us 2k to take the car just for environmental expenses. Its coming folks

[@affordableadventuretours]

They tank by 50% in a year. I work in the industry and dealers don’t want used EVs. The used EV market is garbage.

[@tarnantula]

I’m taking the 10 year old used Honda over the EV everyday regardless of miles and incentives

[@jongib6096]

Honestly, nobody cares, I wish people would stop making videos on EV

[@LearningFast]

Almost no 36 month leases have a 64% residual anymore. That was true many many years ago but not even remotely close to true today. All cars whether they are EVs or ICE will have in the low 50s for residual for 36 months. 24 month leases may be in the 60s but not 36 months for almost any car.

[@MrJkenney485]

I just got an email regarding a car I sold in March. It was a 22 Tiguan and showed a valuation loss of 25% in a single month. September to October dropping from 18,800 to 12,200. It's not just EVs

[@theairstig9164]

Transport fuel demand is falling off a cliff. I think these facts are related

[@recoilrob324]

I think it's only going to get worse when the insurance companies start getting in their real world costs and adjust their premiums accordingly. Somewhere I saw $4000 per year to insure a Tesla? This push to EV's is going to show how stupid Washington can be...at all of our expense.

[@bradley624]

Model S or X people are paying 1700-2300 every 6 months in some cases. I’m at $939 every 6 months .

[@pjeverly]

I'm wondering about the car insurance prices as well.@@bradley624

[@mexicanspec]

In time insurance companies will refuse to insure electric cars with the type of batteries they have today. What will that do to the market?

[@My_Old_YT_Account]

They're supposed to release cars with a new type of battery that's highly unlikely to cause such fires in a couple of years, I expect that's when older ev buyers will get shafted by insurance companies

[@chiplangowski3298]

I pay less than $1500 per year to insure my Model Y.

[@alexsystems2001]

I think though you also have to consider the people market and the confidence in what they are buying. If you buy a brand new gas Mercedes S-class, someone wouldn’t be as afraid to buy it second had because there is a high likelihood the engine is good and if anything someone can bust out their borescope and inspect cylinders and stuff like that. However with the EV, just like your $150 car battery, their big battery could be good one day and bad the next day no matter how much maintenance you do and you could be on the hook for a $15,000+ battery. I’ve had many many car batteries fail prematurely, I’m sure it could happen to EV’s and there is no real way to know a cell will burn out. The cell could test fine today and you charge it tonight and bam the battery has bad cells and your range is cut short. So someone with money is going to overlook the used EV’s and go new and someone who is not as financially well off would probably not be willing to pay the big price tag without huge discounts for a used EV.

[@GXKid06]

Every audi etron gt for sale has a lemon buy back title.

[@snakeeyes9246]

Every single one? That's hard to believe. What proof do you have?

[@My_Old_YT_Account]

Damn, it's almost like you shouldn't buy a car named shit in French (no joke, put étron in Google translate)

[@bruceharkness4497]

MacMaster did a recent deprecation report on his Taycan. $120K new, now worth $40K. It dropped $11,500 in the last month.

[@jasono2139]

$40k?! Where can I get one?? 🤣

[@Cilu27]

I'm driving a lot of kilometers each year (in Denmark) and here it makes a lot of sense getting an EV if you like me drive a lot due to various reasons. So I am looking forward to about a year or 2 when I will be able to pick up one of those highend luxury EVs for about half or a third they cost new with below 50.000km :D

[@mexicanspec]

You must have a lot of extra time on your hands if you drive a lot of miles in an EV.

[@nervotica7991]

Your comment does not make sense - what do you call "a lot"? Km's?

[@daexion]

@@nervotica7991 Says the troll.

[@Cilu27]

@@mexicanspec since Denmark is small my longest total distance (so back and forth) that I drive is about 500km. That means I just need to do one charging break which suits me fine since I usually get something to eat or hit the head in that time. Then I usually have enough to get me back home where I then charge it full for the next day.

[@Cilu27]

@@nervotica7991 I drive around 40.000km per year which is a lot for a country like Denmark.

[@LearningFast]

I wouldn’t buy any EVs right now. Lease them because leases can get the $7,500 tax credit in some cases without any of the income or price restrictions. Leasing protects you against depreciation.

[@btt449]

This is not an EV problem, it is a problem in the whole car market and well as some other markets. 21/22 had huge MSRP increases. 23 has been a huge sales slump for everything as people feeling the effects of everything costing more and interest rates booming. So now you have new 23/24 being discounted at prices lower than MSRP of a 21/22 which in turn drives down the used residual values harder than normal.

[@squidishtendencies1523]

This just goes to show that MSRPs are out of control. Had the cars been more realistically priced from manufacturer, the rate of depreciation wouldn't have been so sharp. Not to mention people just don't want the e-cars.

[@dj_lord_tucker]

Not to wish tears on Ed, but I wonder how much the man has spent in repair costs for his personal cars ov e r the years

[@VINwiki]

That's a great question. The answer is clearly a lot but still much, much less than if I had paid more to purchase cars that had warranties. It would take time to tabulate but I would estimate it at about $200-300/mo on the daily driver cars. Timing chains on the SC Rover and some higher ticket items on the GL63 have been the only big hits.

[@SR-ry6hs]

I follow your recipe Ed, buy just out of warranty. Be my own warranty like Freddie T, and have fun watching the new luxury cars drop like a rock in value in 12-24 months 😁

[@GraveUypo]

wow, you're courageous to buy landrovers as they go out of warranty. i had two, both exploded their engines. i wouldn't touch any british cars with a hundred foot pole now. also cayannes, not really known for their reliability 😂

[@b127_1]

As far as I'm concerned, its a good thing that the prices of these very expensive EVs are slowly dropping to the point where normal people can afford them. And its helping the average consumer at the expense of people buying very expensive new cars. Gotta love me some trickle down economics.

[@Bob_Smith19]

The rich are getting out and into new cars and the poors will be stuck w/. Artery replacement costs. Lots wrong w/ that picture.

[@b127_1]

@@Bob_Smith19 Expensive parts and repair bills are coming to most modern cars unfortunately. Look up ford's 5600 dollar tail light repair. That was a gas F150. Not a fun day, I imagine...

[@jasono2139]

The only issue is that you're not going to get to buy something that nobody was interested in buying (at cost) in the first place... unless the government is the one doing it and forcing tax payers to make up for their losses (looking at you USPS). Nobody is going to be able to produce a Model 3 at Chevy Cobalt prices... never going to happen.

[@theaterlightman89]

Im looking at getting a p100d in a year or two with the lower price point, thats a good thing for me

[@-Multor-]

What that market analysis shows me is he following: MSRPs are way too high ompared to the average income of potential customers. They can´t get the advantage of acquiring a new car. So they aim at the low end of the rane of the car they want. Two thing might help: Lower MSRPs or higher average incomes. This way, the vehicles become more obtainable, regardless of incentives.

[@Bob_Smith19]

Longer term loans, that’s what’s been fueling it for this long. Seven year lease on a car w/ a five year warranty.