What's the difference between a Leaven and a Starter?

This video answers the question many beginners have -- "What is the difference between a Leaven and a Starter.
This video is an excerpt from my 5-part series, "The Sourdough Journey: Beginner Mistakes and Tips."
If you found this video helpful, please subscribe to my channel, The Sourdough Journey.
Thank you!
Tom Cucuzza
The Sourdough Journey
Cleveland, OH

[@ronsusi5307]

First time trying to bake sourdough bread. Followed several different recipes and had various degrees of success, but really enjoyed your 5 part video on the process. Learned so much and yes I guess I have been making a few mistakes along the way. Can't wait to bake my next loaf sticking more closely to what you have demonstrated. Great job, keep it up.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@HeroicDoseOfFilm]

I'm really enjoying your videos! Keep up the good work!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@21johnsviewtrrce]

yet again another helpful clip Ty Man nice

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@nicolehazelett6766]

Hi Tom! Trying to find a video from you on how to make the Leaven, which will included the amounts in grams of starter/flour (what combination)/water, and the steps after.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

I don't have a video on that. I have some information on my website here: thesourdoughjourney.com/faq-starter-preparation/

[@thesourdoughjourney]

If I need 200g of starter/leaven for a recipe, it depends how much time you have to prepare it. I like to prepare mine overnight, so I'll use 20g of starter, 100g of flour and 100g of water. This makes 220g of leaven, of which I need 200. If I'm making it the same day, I'll just do a 1:2:2 or 1:5:5 feeding of some of my starter and it will be ready in about 4-6 hours.

[@troy5659]

Hello and thanks for all your great info, I've learned a lot. I'm making a new starter with a leaven at a 1:1:1 = 150g. after feeding, it's not doubling at all even after 24 hrs and after 4 days of feedings, the most it has rosen is half way. I'm using the King Arthur Bread Flour at 12.7% protein. What do you think is the issue? Thanks

[@thesourdoughjourney]

As long as it is rising, it doesn’t necessarily need to double. Some mixes will double and some will not. Especially if you are not using any whole wheat in your mix. It will be a thinner wetter mix and won’t show the rise as much. Still can be as strong. Just doesn’t show the rise as much.

[@troy5659]

@@thesourdoughjourney Thank you very much, I'm having problems with oven spring / high hydration and since the leavan is not doubling I'm thinking that's the issue. I'll keep at it, so it must be my method.

[@bomarciniw]

Thanks!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. Also check out my new website for more information. thesourdoughjourney.com

[@bomarciniw]

Learning a lot from watching your videos. Appreciate your efforts. I have high expectations for my next (second) sourdough loaf. 👍

[@bomarciniw]

@@thesourdoughjourney familiar with your website as well. Thanks.

[@marcospicolo1]

Quick question: can I use my starter (if I have enough) directly into the dough, or do I still have to do the levain?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

You can use your starter. There are subtle differences between using the starter vs. the leaven, but they both make equally good loaves, in my experience.

[@corteltube]

Curious..I tend to love the more sour flavor...is it possible to get that more tangy flavor?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

More sourness usually comes from longer fermentation times, not necessarily the amount or sourness of the starter/leaven. Go for longer proofing at lower temperatures.

[@corteltube]

@@thesourdoughjourney got it...thanks....

[@klaskristian1]

Whats your ratio fotr the leaven? Is it 1:5:5 or what? And please can you do a vidro how you maintain a starter that is kept in the fridge?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Leaven is about 1:10:10. I will make a fridge maintenance video.

[@klaskristian1]

@@thesourdoughjourney ahh, god dammit! The fourth dough in a row that got overfermented. 3 hiurs into fermentation it became a sticky mess impossible to handle! Normally i bake loafpan breads of overfermented doughs, but now i wes that sad and frustrated that i through it into the compost. Something i regretted afterwords. I had taken out a piece of the dough to see when it rised. 3 hours in, the dough was wobbly and looked aerated, but the sample piece had nor rised more than say 10% I decided to cut of fermentation and shape it for coldproofing and realized that the dough was sticky and not handable. This is so frustrating! The levain looked good,better than it have been doing the last month. But something is very wrobg with it. I have really tried to strenghten it by feeding it mire frequent, but it does not seem to work. It rises veeery slowly. I decided to make a new srarter,but i had to try one more thing. Feeding it with raisinwater to introduce more yeast before i call it quit! I have been thinking today why my starter is so weak and i think i have came up with why. 1 year ago i knew very little of starters, byt followed a recepie from a famous swedish baker. It said that i should feed it daily with 50gram water/flour so i did. But it did not say anything if discard!! So i just fed it. I had it in a really large jar, and when it was active i read other recepies that said i should discard, so i started doing so, but i now think i made the starter weak by not discard. But i did not know that back then and this recepies just said to feed it everyday

[@barrychambers4047]

I think it's more of a difference between a European name and a U.S. name. In fact there are plenty of more names for this wild mix of yeast and bacteria. They are all really one and the same, though.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks for the feedback.

[@teter129]

Clear as mud . . .

[@thesourdoughjourney]

That’s the best I can do. 🙂

[@rebeccamcgill5043]

Can starter and levain be used interchangeably?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Not always. It depends on the type of flour required for the leaven. If the leaven is uses the same flours as your starter, then you can use it. But sometimes people keep a rye starter for example, but if you are not making a rye loaf, you wouldn't want to just use a bulked up rye starter. That is the primary difference. There are also more subtle differences (for example in the Tartine recipes). If you use your starter as your leaven, you are using an "old" starter which usually has a high acid load which can effect fermentation and flavor. So some recipes call for making a "fresh" leaven from your starter so you are using a "younger" version of the starter in the recipe. It is less acidic and less sour that way.

[@rebeccamcgill5043]

The Sourdough Journey wow, thank you for the response! I’m having a hard time with my loaves keeping their shape. I feel like my dough is fermenting too fast and is somewhat runny by the end of bulk fermentation. I’ve followed the Tartine process other than I’ve been using my starter and not making a leaven. I will using leaven instead! 🤦‍♀️

[@thesourdoughjourney]

@@rebeccamcgill5043 It is worth a try. My dough has been behaving oddly the last month or so. I believe some of it is due to the flour shortage. Some of the flour out there is not properly cured and is causing some inconsistencies (fast fermentation, low gluten, low water absorption). I upgraded to some higher gluten flour (13.5% protein) and am seeing more consistent results.

[@rebeccamcgill5043]

The Sourdough Journey interesting! I was having decent results until the last couple weeks. Maybe it’s the flour! I’ll keep trying. Thanks again!

[@melaniejakobs5574]

Do you throw the left over leaven into your original starter?I think I screwed up my starter by doing that.My first loaf was great,the last two not so much.Starter is not doubling.I misread the recipe where he says..this will be your new starter.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

You should be able to add your leaven to your starter without harming it. What most people do, who keep a separate starter, is just reduce the quantity of the leaven you make to 200g which is the quantity required for the recipe. And maintain your starter separately. That has always tripped up people. Robertson discards his prior starter and uses the leftover leaven as his starter. This is a way to keep a “young” starter which never builds up acidity or sourness. But only the Tartine “purists” do this method, in my opinion.

[@melaniejakobs5574]

Thanks for the reply...trying to get my starter back on track