How Darth Revan Was FINALLY Killed - Star Wars Explained

[@MichaelDouglas-24]

I love how now every picture of revan with his helmet off has Keanu edited in, I seriously think he would be great for a Revan role. Sounds like the entire fanbase does

[@thereturnofdarthcaedus]

i seriously agree with you keanu reeves would make a perfect revan in film but will it ever happen

[@walmartpimp2]

While we are at it I want Emily Blunt to play Bastila Shan, and Sydney Sweeney to play The Jedi Exile.

[@MikasaAckermann831]

honestly about to comment this. everytime I see a mask less revan it's Keanu

[@thereturnofdarthcaedus]

@@walmartpimp2 good casting choice tbwy thats a very good casting choice and wise one at best

[@thereturnofdarthcaedus]

@@walmartpimp2 i wanted adam drive to play jacen solo/darth caedus and i want my favorite actress from rogue one to play jaina solo man that rogue one movie was far better than the entire sequel trilogy if they cant get my favorite actress to play jaina solo my second choice would be daisy ridley to play jaina solo

[@NeilTheHippy]

"Revan was power staring into his eyes was like staring intro the heart of the force. Even then you could see the Jedi he would slay etched on his soul." Kreia

[@dodywidodo9433]

Staring his eyes is breathtaking

[@MuhammadUmair-gh2kk]

@@dodywidodo9433 no you’re breathtaking!

[@dodywidodo9433]

@@MuhammadUmair-gh2kk it’s fixed then, Keanu Reeves is Revan

[@NightBane345]

Anakin/Vader might've been the chosen one of the force, but Revan was the power of the force incarnate. I think both of them was closely matched, key difference, was that Revan was able to go his own way, in a manner of speaking, while Anakin was always held back. If both reached their potential, nothing holding them back, I imagine Anakin would win, but as they were before their death, I'm fairly certain Revan would come out on top.

[@the_SolLoser]

Hard to say as Anakin/Vader also learned a lot from Revan's holocron. At least that was the story. Who knows what's been changed and retconned now.

[@shaneludwick2139]

I agree Daniel, good observation 👍

[@shaneludwick2139]

@@the_SolLoser Revan's holocron? I knew most Jedi/Sith leave at least one behind but I never heard of Revan's. Where is this sourced from? Book, show, cartoon, etc. I'd like to know more if you had the time.

[@lewismiller870]

@@damaskholdings9140 "wasn't held back" my guy, he was just a piece of flesh in a robotic machine. No arms and no legs, ofc he was held back by this fact

[@fab0527]

Revan would 100% win, every time. He's beyond what Vader can ever achieve in his life. Revan was literally the force itself. No light or dark side, just pure force. Vader would get slapped around so bad. The only person who can even come close to Revan is Luke. Just like Revan, he too was the force itself.

[@charlestownsend9280]

Technically this isn't the end of revan, he did return again in the final battle with vitiate, appearing to the outlander and previously to darth scourge, helping the outlander survive on their journey through the minds of those infected by vitiate (including satele shan) and he was among those who appeared at the end to help defeat the sith emperor once and for all. It's noted by satele afterwards that revan has fully moved on now that the threat of the emperor is no more.

[@dar-nakkallig]

Yes, but Revan at that point is dead... A spirit... Thusly killed is accurate...

[@obsidian2404]

@@dar-nakkallig you’re never truly dead when you have become one with the force. You’re effectively immortal. Revan didn’t die he just lost his physical body, he is otherwise everywhere.

[@entropy417]

@@obsidian2404 Revan has found ways to transcend his flesh limitations

[@vrblacktongue68]

I don't play video games I read, slowly. I just read that Cade Skywalker had a twin named Raven Skywalker.. Darth Raven Skywalker. That didn't happen.. unless it was reconned and .. possible bc I have not been reading.. actually Lucas was the only one I ever forgave for fuckin up the cohesiveness of the Expanded Universe that is now called Legends.. EU star wars lore.. and now with Disney, I knew Disney was go crazy with new content... I'm exhausted, my choice to .. idk..look at star wars or don't look at star wars. I wanna give up and watch star trek instead,.. I swear I'll will leave my star wars behind ..... Well maybe not.. .. I like to know when it's fan fiction or was it Lucasfilm approved... I'm not gonna pretend that I don't still love all the characters I started meeting by reading novels.. I read some the original marvel star wars comics before the second movie was released.... , Crazy people at Skywalker ranch or wherever they do this meeting of the geek brain ... canon and then noncanon.. Dark Horse has star wars again. I'm happy about that... And oh, peep this,.. my husband pointed out that Boba Fett never made it out of the 3rd installment Sarlac Pit... Ha ha.. I get confused now... Moooshy brains and all. If I don't make sense, it's bc I refuse to proofread... And ya, if I read it next week. I would just admit I have no idea what I was typing about... Not a clue.. I need another shot of Vodka, and that's your fault. Awesome.. pretty damn groovy. And my husband is Keanu Reeves. ... Yep...

[@umbreon6920]

​@@vrblacktongue68 So your saying Book of Boba Fett is fake?

[@ReturnToNothingness32147]

Thats why darth Revan is my favorite star wars character. His story is so interesting because he was able to understand both light and darkside of the force. He can also wield both powers💪🏽

[@jorelb.acosta2121]

Yea but the Dark side dominated tbh the only reason he was a temporary Jedi was because of the memory wipe if it wasn't for that he would of stood a Sith Lord.

[@romelcurtis8652]

I love the fact he hated him so much he wanted to bring him back to life just to kill him again!! Revan is f-ing EPIC!!!

[@SteveCowlishaw]

I'd prefer a series of stories with Revan as the protagonist, like Mass Effect. Not sure about an ending but I feel that he should've started a new Jedi Order after the fall of the one following KotOR2.

[@dildobaggins2759]

Ime not sure about a series they dont have the same mmmphhh as the films do in Star Wars, unless it was animation as they can really push the boundaries with that. With Revans story it could easily be a three part film if not more. That will be a huge moment for Star Wars fans and i cant wait.

[@vitorpereira9515]

It took the best of the sith empire to take him down. Not even the Dark Council or Malgus were a match for Revan

[@alsimmonshellspawn6021]

He was in a weak state too

[@vitorpereira9515]

@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 Indeed. In his prime i wouldn't had stand a chance, but even in his weakest, he was one of the strongest.

[@galenstar21]

You forgot the dread masters

[@shaquantucker7463]

That battle was tough and he beat me once

[@vitorpereira9515]

@@galenstar21 They were second only to vitiate, or even they together matched him, because they were powerful sorcerers and his powers warped space itself. You remember those vortex in the dread palace?

[@ashlahoyt5728]

4:02 in SWTOR you are apart of this strike team and opon Revans death he says - "And in the end, as the darkness takes me, I am nothing. Now I know how you felt, my friend." every single time I hear this I tear up a bit. Some may say Revans end was handled poorly but I think it was well done, just maybe in the wrong medium. The expansion Shadow of Revan is still very interesting and fun to play it just that some parts are very tedious and the story revolves around the outlander with the resolution being kinda dissatisfying.

[@mattberg6328]

I have heard about this before; however, I appreciate you going into further detail with just how divided Revan was and his methods for responding to Valkorian and with his duality. Would you be willing to cover Sith Alchemy or how the Jedi transcend into the force, just other lesser known abilities (one of how Naga Sadow took a Supernova and used it as a weapon would even be awesome!)? Thanks! Appreciate these in depth look videos. The Kaminoan Jedi video is one of my favorite so far. :)

[@kindasupersonic7114]

Darth Revan's story is so awesome to read, and an awesome character! but at the same time, so sad and heart-wrenching.. indeed, a Greek tragedy.

[@danelamoreaux4166]

Revan is my favorite SW character. Also,you didn't mention Meetra Surik helping to keep Revan strong. Side note,Revan had a cult that lasted at least 500 years later.

[@the_SolLoser]

The cult of Revan still survives... 😎

[@nightlight8285]

so the dude lived around 800 years???????

[@Aliaz93moneyfingerz]

Metra Surik is my favorite star wars character but how she died was sad

[@Jack-qm4ut]

It's theorized that the Knights of Ren in the sequels were an ancient order stemming from mixed Mandalorian + Sith cultures. It's feasible to believe that the Knights of Ren had evolved from the Revanites, the cult that followed in the footsteps of Revan.

[@adamwade6243]

So the Hollywood Actor who plays Neo from the Matrix was Darth Revan's true identity all of this time?

[@the_SolLoser]

If there was a Revan movie trilogy about 10 years ago, it would've been a perfect fit.

[@carth266]

The matrix isn’t real it’s just the emperors mind Reva... I mean Neo

[@LetsGetitBoah]

Now you know why Keanu ages so well.

[@hahauhavcrabs09]

Always love revan lore

[@jorelb.acosta2121]

So at the end Revan basically remained a sith the whole time. The only reason he was temporarily a Jedi was because he lost his memory if it wasnt for the memory wipe he would of stood a Sith Lord.

[@obsidian2404]

Keep Revan immortal at this point, may he live for centuries and out live our childrens children and their children as well. Revan is the best Star Wars character of all time no contest.

[@mineofilms]

Revan's story really needs a complete breakdown. Just my opinion but 4 parts should do it, unless I missed something. It has been a minute since I went into the lore of any Star Wars since the Rise of Skywalker... Part I: Being the life of Reven up to the events of the original old republic game. Part 2: covers the original game and all the speculation of what happened to Revan during the 2nd game. Part 3: Star Wars The Old Republic Revan Novel. Part 4: What happens here at the end but immediately after Star Wars The Old Republic Revan novel. IDK. That to me, seems to cover the life/death of Revan. By far a more interesting character than any of the Skywalkers put together.

[@hawkeyeguy1723]

I like that they gave him a Purple Lightsaber before you click the video! Every time I played knights of the Old Republic I would use both a Purple and a yellow Lightsaber!

[@carth266]

Same lol

[@chadflanaganCFC]

I honestly love how they sorta ended Revan's story,and while ik they'll (Disney) will never do a star wars series based around Revan I feel like his story is something that needs more in canon exploration as this stuff would be a genuinely interesting concept to watch unfold

[@1991jwp]

Revan must be one of the most complex and interesting characters in all of Star Wars. Adapting him for the screen wouldn’t be easy. People seem to be pulling for Keanu Reeves to play him but, although he has a good look, he’s not the right actor for it. His most successful roles have been very blank slate characters without much depth like Neo and John Wick. Revan needs a lot more than that. The good thing is that Revan does not have a canonical appearance because he wears the mask, so you can cast literally anyone so long as they can portray the charisma, power and gravitas Revan is meant to have.

[@snowfox22]

100% agree. He would be absolutely terrible playing as Revan

[@ramzcoldlampin5460]

I know everyone pictures and loves the image of Keanu playing Revan, and I totally support that. But another name I would submit is Robert Pattinson, especially after The Batman.

[@MADMAXWORLD.TV.]

I hope Keanu Reeves lands the role as Revan soon before he says something similar to Hugh Jackman, about reprising his role as Wolverine. "Totally. Honestly, Marlow, if seven years ago that had happened I’d be like, “Oh yeah!” but I knew it was the right time for me to leave the party-not just for me, but for the character. Somebody else will pick it up and run with it. It’s too good of a character not to. It’s kind of like, you’re on your way home and your friend rings you and goes, Oh, dude, a new DJ just came on and the music is awesome, are you going to come back? And you say, Sounds good but… no. They’re fine with someone else." - Hugh Jackman But I still have hope he _will_ reprise his role as Wolverine in the MCU.

[@TheThrashingBurton]

I loathe this ending we were given. I can appreciate the loop being closed for Revan, but I loathe this ending. He had to die, yes, the true sacrifice of a redeemed hero, but what a lame ending.

[@ipotombilstorm]

Great vid 👌

[@sethdominickortiz]

I think we can all agree that Keanu reeves should at the least be asked to play revan in a future movie or show that will probably come to be In The next ten years A lot of real life problems to face and then we may have a good show we need to keep trying harder out here for our lives and others

[@Sekulture]

Revan's spirit remained after that as he also took part in the final assault on Vitiate through the force itself

[@knifenest7229]

I want to see a live action Revan with some strategic retcon to keep it interesting.

[@hancockjason8758]

Keana reves should play him. I think he would nail the role.

[@shaneludwick2139]

Forget Anakin, Luke or Leia, Revan was the true Chosen One. I REALLY hope Keanu gets the role. With his acting chops I see great things.

[@revaniac]

I really believe that revan wanted to use his thoughtbomb on vitiate, because except Ysalamiri, this would be the only technique to stop vitiate. And I believe that revan invented this technique especially for the use against vitiate.

[@1qplayer626]

Interesting. He actually transformed the nathema Ritual into the thought bomb to use it against its creator tenebrae

[@EverythingHomeTheater]

Wow. Need a movie of Revan. Interesting stuff

[@Cyberjjc]

I find Revan one of the most interested Lore stories available. However, I am very much interested in hearing more about Lord Scourge too.

[@tarzankom]

Anyone else think Revan looks kind of like Keanu Reeves?

[@seanbuch8015]

I'm voting for revan as the g.o.a.t of star wars

[@dildobaggins2759]

No bro that will always be Annie my boy!

[@Spooky_515]

@@dildobaggins2759 Vader/Annie gets his ass kicked all the time. Luke had little training and manhandled him, kicking him down stairs all the while trying not to fight. When Luke finally gave Annie a taste of chosen one power, alls Vader/Annie can do is attempt to back off before being knocked on his ass again minus a hand. Almost begging Luke to stop by reaching out with his stump

[@DSIrocker]

I feel his constant tug of war with the light and dark side is so convoluted

[@DMBLaan]

This wasn't the last we heard from Revan though. He'd return again as a spirit to help destroy Valkoian/Viciate's original body, Tenebera

[@bitkower]

What? Master Oteg wasn't in the strike team that freed Recan. He was the admiral of the fleet that was attacking the base from space to split the Sith's focus to allow the strike team to get to him. And Revan wasn't kept alive those 300 years by the pain, you're thinking about Vader, Revan was kept alive by the Sith Emperor who was using him as like a Force battery, as well as to access information from his mind. And consequently, Revan was also able to access parts of Vitiate's mind and influence him to delay the inevitable Sith invasion of Republic space. It was for the loss of that influence that Revan was not entirely happy about being rescued.

[@andy2200]

Raven was a man of focus, commitment and sheer fucking will.

[@ronjon7942]

Wait, I’m confused (again). Near the beginning - 1:50 - you mention it was Valkorian that imprisoned Revan, and that while Revan was in stasis for 300 years, he held Valkorian back from invading the galaxy with the Eternal Empire. But I thought it was Vitiate that put Revan in stasis for 300 years, and that Revan, through their Force link, held Vitiate (and the Sith) from making war against the New Republic. Didn’t Vitiate take over Valkorian’s body and the Eternal Empire) much, much later, well after Revin was released from stasis, and was ‘half-killed’ by the Imperial strike team

[@jaykay6074]

REVAN NEVER DIED: SPOILER ALERT: HE BECAME AN ACTOR DOING B RATED COMROMS before the matrix, then used his knowledge of the force to become John wick

[@damienedwards6726]

Groovy. It makes me curious about whether the Old Republic game also gave the ultimate fates of Bastila Shan and the other characters from KOTOR and KOTOR2.

[@jordanelza8806]

0:08 to 0:29 Correct. Revan is the perfect representation of a balance of light and dark. He is the perfect Grey Jedi, as well as one of my personal favorite Star Wars characters ever. He has a unique story, and is just amazing and interesting in general. He’s arguably the equal of Anakin/Vader, as they have very similar stories and are both very powerful in both the light and dark sides of the Force. Both characters also have two separate identities (in a way:) Revan with Darth Revan, and Anakin with Darth Vader.

[@snowfox22]

Finding out you're Revan in Kotor had me absolutely shook as a 10 year old

[@ejrodriguez2656]

I have to thank you completely, this was an amazingly incredible ending to my number one all time favorite Star Wars character. For someone who was famous not just as a Jedi but a Sith as well Revan deserved an epic ending. 😇👍👍👍

[@awoods1035]

He needs his own movie series with Darth Bane

[@Rob-el8ti]

Revan didn't die and never will

[@nostalgiaemeraldtablet]

Legendary, but definitely just now falling in Love with "Kriea the Philsohper"

[@GoldenBoy152]

When are you going to make a part 3 to “What if Qui-gon Jinn trained Anakin”???

[@BrandonTurner11]

I'm newer to the books and deeper lore. While I love Star Wars lore, could you list the books, games and other sources with each of your videos to be able to read/study/ learn more?

[@jshirlee]

Great vid!

[@jamerejones560]

I would love revan to come back but I also think what he’s done is also so incredibly good with me and I don’t want any of that ruined lol

[@WebHeadMike]

It almost feels unceremonious as an ending

[@rmjx.]

Finally, John Wick decided to stop cosplaying Keanu Reeves

[@johnlevonitis8136]

Revan is the only True Chosen One of the Jedi and the Sith'ari of the Sith.

[@Exaris79]

Kyle Katarn could possibly had a similar situation with the Hidden Valley of the Jedi. Both Light&Dark Side Force Ghosts empowered him and while he might not had a split personality, he did had a unifying character that resolved both light&dark side persona of his character at the end of the game. Even if he ended up siding with the Dark Side, it wasn't that his character was a dark sider but more of a means to an end. The same with the light side game ending of his character, he accepted his dark side persona as the situation demands in defeating Vader&Palpy and didn't want the hassle of running an empire or being the new Sith Lord since tradition demands that he trains his own replacement that will someday crave his position&kill him. Also there's another Gray Jedi that regularly do spirit transfers to a new clone body but isn't a light or dark sider in Legends of the modern era. Could his next clone be more focused on the light or dark side. If he can do a spirit transfer, then he has no problem becoming a Force Ghost. He's probably been a Force Ghost at some point&just decided life was more interesting than being in the ascended realm of the Force with the other Force Ghosts.

[@Whytho-dude]

i could easily see this becoming a move or long TV show, would be amazing

[@edwardwilson7459]

Imagine if he HADN'T ascended at the end. Spreading his knowledge as the only character to ever be 100% faithful to both sides through his life. The kind of force user that BALANCE would make him. The kind of order his impossibly unique viewpoint would produce.

[@t-rex3092]

I love Star Wars lore, especially the Old Republic... Sad that I only get excited about old news told by my old favorite commentators.

[@Timber_wolf85]

There REALLY REALLY REALLY should be a movie about Darth Revan and Keanu as Revan.

[@revanknight3202]

Could he have won if his light side had agreed with his dark side to kill valkorian, combining the two halves, but on the terms that they move on once this is finished?

[@iloveliljar]

the best to ever do it.

[@andrewschreiner2752]

I own both of the Knights of the Old Republic Video Games on mobile but I have the First one on my tablet but my tablet needs to be updated so sometimes my saved games won't load and usually when that happens I have to completely restart the game

[@LastSon]

Bro the biggest, Ah that makes sense would be if Shmee was a descendant of Revan. Her child wasn't fathered, but conceived by the force and her fleshly bloodline is that of Revan himself, creating the Chosen One!

[@sonictemple2925]

It is a shame we haven’t seen Revan on the screen yet. I believe everyone would want to see this.

[@jakegarcia6143]

this would make an amazing 3 part movie series

[@Gormsy]

I love SWTOR

[@CoolPandaTheMovieNerd]

I love that you used Keanu Reeves as Reven. He was always my fantasy casting if they did movies or shows based on him.

[@kdougherty4012]

There's more, Revan did not become one with the force after being defeated on Yavin 4, he did not until Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorian was finally defeated for good and completely in Echoes of Oblivion

[@grayfox1471]

I think sometimes authors cling too much to beloved characters, that they write them into a horrible existence just to have the ability to pen one more adventure for them

[@natsucadogan]

While I wish Disney kept all of the old and pre-republic era stuff, one of the stories I wish they kept the most was Revan’s story. I mean, he went from a Jedi to a Sith to an amnesiac that learns of his Force affinity to a Jedi that is then split into two separate personalities and completely separate people after over 300 years of torture. So cool. With Disney’s bs, all we have now is that he’s a Sith Lord and it’s so boring in comparison.

[@subhadeepdey3111]

Revan is power , it's like staring at the heart of the force.

[@1Peace]

The problem with George Lucas' Star Wars Expanded Universe versus J.R.R. Tolkien's Middle Earth, is, even though the Expanded Universe is 25,00 years long, it is not as full or complete as the history of Middle Earth. It is so redundant and remedial. Whereas the Middle Earth world covers the world before time, with whole and origin complete historical stories of *ALL* the main and sub characters.

[@DailyHistoryBuff]

that fcking robot before revan killed me like 20 times before I noticed I had to actually click on those thingys before killing him.

[@wildcaveman5310]

I heard Revan once killed 3 men in a cantina with a pencil.

[@thatdudedave4654]

If a old republic era Star Wars movie ever comes out I would like Keanu to play revan he just looks perfect for it

[@AnnieLeonhart500]

He could spilt himself into two was learn from vitiate. Vitiate could control multiple voices in the same time.

[@roberterlandson8234]

I guess one could call Revan the master of the force since he has command over both light & dark

[@joemama7163]

This is how you create a convoluted mess of a potentially great story.

[@wynnpimentel4438]

This is why they should make this into a movie. With Keanu as Revan.

[@robertagu5533]

Imagine being so BAD BOTH of someone's legendary alter egos. Decide that you need to die an even the evil side alone is willing to bring you back from the dead... Just to kill you.. wonder what was DARTH Revan's plan in the event this Force User Scitzophrenic who's OTHER personality agreed with him actually succeeded in bringing Vitite back AND killing him again?? Does he repeat the process? Kill Vitites ghost? If Revan an "x" could destroy Vitites body an spirit why'd he not just do THAT instead of resurrection (.i.e. " the long, hard way, around")? Quite alot of interesting questions here this brings up

[@onlyjwalks5321]

I appreciate the conflict of his life and story. but think the character itself is such an awesome character that it deserves much better execution and endings he kinda becomes a throw away character that always loses in the end

[@gabemesa3921]

This story is really cool though. I didn't know Darth Reven's story.

[@landonlacy1954]

If a tv series about Revan was made and made by competent producers and directors who actually give a shit about the Star Wars we know and love. I think it would be the most popular Star Wars series ever and get Star Wars fans excited for the future of Star Wars again. Because let’s be honest. Right now there just isn’t much to be excited about for anything that Disney might bring us in the future

[@estebanpardo5804]

Can we please get a multi season show of Revan on Disney+ or a new Trilogy of films about Revan and the Old Replublic?

[@anariel_peredhil91]

Was it already mentioned that Revan was showing up again for the last time in a later Story Arc in SWTOR?

[@davidlane4493]

Light side righteous, Darkside bogus. Be excellent to each other and party on dudes...

[@chrisarriaga7408]

Someone start a petition for Keanu to play revan lol

[@MS-tm2gp]

Just curious, is there any tie between Revan & Windu, beside they both had a Purple Lightsaber?

[@vicentterraneo306]

Purple Lightsabers are commonly used by people who use both light and dark sides of the force. Revan mastered both the light and dark Windu has a unique fighting style that basically redirects his opponents dark side back at him

[@sobreaver]

Very interesting story !

[@Nero_D_Blaze]

Okay now I knew revan was powerful but to split himself into two halves is another thing entirely. And you know in a way anakin and revan share a lot of similarities which just goes to show that if anakin has a truly good teacher he would have reached revans level

[@galacticwarriorcode]

I want to see a new video about Bastila shan's life with and without Revan

[@fredrikmagnusson6469]

Where can i find the music used in this video?

[@katx9697]

I would have loved to have studied under Revan, during his rejoined phase.

[@fedupwiththetimes6413]

Did I miss when Revan became Darth Keanu?

[@TemporaryChannelName]

nice a swtor video

[@derektorres6260]

I still want a real KOTOR3

[@dioniciolombera91]

Let make an online petition asking Disney to make an Old republic film starring Keanu Reeves! I’m sure the community would all agree to this

[@paulbunion5836]

Revan movie 🎥 would make a great Star Wars trilogy. I would be way to happy with that love action story.

[@0102alexander]

It seems some stories are to complex and extence to go into movies or even tv series, am l right?

[@Stuff8522]

Imagine being so Intune with the Force that it literally tears you in half. Then, for shits and giggles, it proceeds to take your entire persona and split it in two as well as your force powers. Hold on, we ain't done yet. Let's take your soul and decide that each part is equally balanced in power and that each part should receive equal power. Now let's assume that each part can communicate with each other, but only only on a subliminal level. But wait, let's assume that each part is capable of taking Darth Vaders entire plotline and making it irrelevant because you are trying to figure yourself out while also able to reduce both the light and dark side to fundamental idiocy. Now you find out that each half is a whole and that you are one with the Cosmos. I'm sorry, but who decided that this is the character that we should skip out on? Disney couldn't even.