we NEED to talk about joe alwyn AGAIN before tortured poets

[@theswiftologist]

The video episode of my podcast, Evolution of a Snake, going through these playlists in EVEN MORE detail is up now for your viewing pleasure: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bpurnIqArdimeKM

[@MelodieRoehrig]

I’m still not over her going from “Something wrapped all of my past mistakes in barbed wire” on Folklore to “Where's that man who'd throw blankets over my barbed wire?” On Evermore. Such a huge breakdown in a short amount of time. Should have known.

[@Joannachin]

Maybe this shows how their relationship changed the dinnamics all the time. One week they were loving each other, in the other fighting

[@anjad.3656]

Folklore/Evermore were both written and produced in 2020 which was a time of reflection for a lot of couples. The isolation or your partner as your only contact has been a catalyst for a lot of dysfunctional relationships to end. Basically, if your relationship was on shaky grounds to begin with, it's much easier to disregard the conflicts when the two of you still have their own life, work, friendships, family stuff going on... All of that came to a halt during 2020 for a lot of people. And a lot of relationships that were just dragged along before, ended.

[@burhanh08]

@@Joannachin DYNAMICS*

[@Joannachin]

@@burhanh08 olha, eu estou me esforçando para me comunicar com vocês na língua natal de vocês, me perdoe se eu escrevi uma palavra errada, da próxima vez eu vou me lembrar como os gringos são mal educados. Abraços

[@Mrs.Currie]

I noticed that lyric 'tie' right away but didn't necessarily think of the Evermore one as autobiographical...guess it was.

[@absayaya]

why she ate she= joe alwyn ate= days are numbered

[@alt._.syed17]

Oh joeover

[@belle14915]

it’s so joever

[@Tom-vj3sp]

why joe alwyn days are numbered?

[@etienne275]

@@Tom-vj3spthe heirloom turkey roast on the 19th

[@AGayCupOfJoe]

Onika bugers

[@123brunasdo]

I simply cannot get over how happiness and evermore were about a stalling relationship and someone who’s already seeing past the break up stage, imagining themselves crossing over that bridge of sadness.

[@shoshanaloomer]

Just got finished with the newest EOS episode and immediate came to this video, we are NOT ready for this album

[@emmar557]

Hi Zach, I was wondering if you think Taylor and Joe would have broken up way sooner if the pandemic wouldn’t happen. And do you think the breaking point for Taylor was when Joe didn’t show up to the eras tour opening night?

[@SullyDunn]

Still getting over the fact Hailey and Justin outlasted Taylor and Joe. Who knows maybe they’ll stay together forever

[@zibbernautinbookspace]

Can't believe you said Hits Different is fictional!! That's such a joever song to me Dx

[@sarahloveday9246]

Honestly, I’ve been waiting all morning for you to make this video.

[@m.tomlinson]

I think that Question is about Harry Styles tbh

[@user927-w3h]

One question: if Taylor was talking about her doubts and a potential wanting to break up in folkmore and midnights, how did Joe not notice? Like I get if he didn’t listen to her music but surely one of his friends said “bro Taylor wants to leave you”

[@karen9av]

I think it was easier for him to stay in the relationship. I think it could either be a) He wanted to avoid the drama of a very public breakup or b) He still enjoyed the life that came with dating Taylor Swift.

[@user927-w3h]

@@karen9av true

[@laramorrison5973]

it sounds like they had broken up and got back together several times "when I meet the band and they ask do you have a man, I can still say I don't remember"

[@Mrs.Currie]

Well I'm sure he noticed.

[@GraceZhang-z4l]

"Where's the turkey-- gobble gobble?" LMAO THAT HAD ME BAWLING

[@oxbrandimaexo]

Been dying for this video from you at the very moment these playlists dropped 🎉👏🏽

[@cassandral.5840]

TTPD is an ink pen album for a reason. Shes not erasing or glamorizing her words. She means what she says. 🤍✒️

[@BrnntToast1115]

Your response time is actually so wild. These playlists basically just came out and you’re already boots on the ground and done.

[@Javilex27]

We love his work

[@noahshighlightreel]

The devil works hard, Taylor works harder, but Swiftologist works the HARDEST.

[@katlantas5674]

I can't stop laughing at the fact that LOVER is on the denial playlist. Somehow to me, that is the biggest clapback she's ever done. She isn't saying (yet) "man, this guy hurt me", she's just like "all that shit I said before about the end of all the endings, I was delulu and you can forget about it" lmao

[@jillsarah7356]

HAHAHA

[@aaliyahfoster2705]

All the wedding first-dance playlists are shaking

[@Im_Julissa]

Tay's delulu lol

[@taracat7723]

Folklore, Evermore..unsurpassed .Joe right there

[@swaggyleemiller00]

@@aaliyahfoster2705no its fine, theyre still love songs even tho shes realizing in hindsight that she was in denial

[@karen9av]

I also wonder if staying in that relationship for as long as she did had something to do with her desire to have a successful relationship. She’s mentioned it several times that she has this need to prove people wrong. And one of her biggest criticisms from the general public has been the inability to have a stable relationship. Part of me wonders how much longer she stayed in that relationship because she was afraid of having a public break up again.

[@aquajewlz1]

That’s such a good point!!

[@SanjanaChejeti]

yeaaa, i think it was also her trying to prove to herself that she can be in a forever relationship

[@snowytiger]

I don't know to me it always seemed as if she was more into him than he was anf maybe that was the main problem. So much of the relationship was very hidden so I don't believe at all that it was to prove other people wrong. I think she's just a hopeless romantic. And since he treated her like a normal person and didn't care that much about fame, that probably was what she needed and wanted at the time.

[@CMarie2415]

And once you've invested so much time, you don't want to give up if it is salvageable. I think the breakup was long and slow because she really wanted to try to find a compromise that met both their needs.

[@angelamarie4137]

I think this also. She didn't want slayed by the court of public opinion over her dating life again. We all know that hurt her.

[@New.Romantics_13]

I clicked on this video faster than you could say sabotage

[@helloheyo4ever]

Hahaha same!!!!!

[@onlyonecaca]

😂😂😂😂

[@Augustine0899]

honestly betty on the denial playlist makes sense - she has always maintained that the apology works and betty takes him back and imo thats denial

[@dramaminedream22]

I also think it makes sense because James is in denial the whole song. Even though he says he is sorry, he still says a lot of backhanded stuff. He’s giving a backhanded apology and I don’t think he really believes he did anything wrong, but is mad because he got caught and lost Betty. It’s a song showing they should just stay broken up, but they both deny that.

[@lkcullen1918]

"If you kiss me will it be just like I dreamed it, will it patch your broken wings?" 👀

[@Augustine0899]

@lkcullen1918 well it clearly didnt patch shit 💀

[@musicandmania]

Newb here but I know just enough, sometimes... I always had a strange sense when she said that Betty takes James back.. its almost like that was a story she wanted herself to believe. Which struck me even more strange because she herself wrote the story. So she wrote this story of a "love triangle".. no, James cheated that's not necessarily a triangle... And then Betty takes him back? Not very "Mother" of Betty........ idk, I kind of always felt like she was in denial about a story she wrote herself

[@musicandmania]

Which, implies... She might have based that on a more nonfiction example than one of pure imagination.

[@Elizabeth-ez7cl]

In my opinion, hits different, is not fictional. It is 100% about the breakdown of their relationship and how there were huge fights, she thought he was leaving and had no idea how she was going to get over him but he would come back. “catastrophic blues. Movin’ on was always easy for me to do. It hits different cause it’s you.” The reference to blue is a dead giveaway away it is about Joe and it used to be so easy for her to move on and date a new man, but with Joe it is very hard to leave. Also the line, “I used to switch out these Kens” referencing how long their relationship was together. The end of the song the man comes back and she hears him put his key in the door, but this relationship has made her so crazy she thinks potentially it is someone coming to put her away in a mental institute. She also mentioned in the song that she is his “argumentative antithetical Dreamgirl.” Literally calling out that they are incompatible. Conveniently, this song was also on the target edition, and was only available on the CD for months. I think this was a move to not bring much attention to the breakdown of her relationship, but was still putting it out there.

[@purplebutterfly314]

Also "dreams of your hair and your stare and sense of belief in the good in the world, you once believed in me" harkles back to all the times she blames herself for their fights, like on afterglow or peace.

[@singingwithbecca]

Couldn't agree more

[@Clara_taylorsversion]

💯

[@RT-yg9cv]

Gurl where you been? We’ve been knowing hits different is about Joe. 😂

[@natalieg4225]

​@RT-yg9cv it was swiftologist who believed it was fictional.

[@juliagee8896]

Just speaking as someone who has been in a similar relationship (ugh), I think it's definitely possible, and actually very likely they were together when Midnights was coming out. The message I get from these songs is that the relationship was an ongoing battle, and I think it was probably punctuated by periods where they fell apart and then ended up getting back together. She was probably writing Midnights during one of these turbulent points in their relationship ('The Great War' maybe?), but then at some point while putting the album together they end up working it out. And so a song like You're Losing Me gets taken off the album and put in the vault where the public can't see it, and a song like Labyrinth is put in. In Labyrinth she begins the song in immense pain, seemingly going through a break up ("I'll be gettin' over you my whole life"), but in the chorus it's "oh no, I'm falling in love again" and "I thought the plane was going down/how'd you turn it right around?". She thought he'd lost her, but he turned it around somehow and won her back. But when you're in these cyclical relationships there is both the joy of starting over again, but also the dread and fear of 'oh no, is this truly a fresh start or am I just restarting the same cycle?'.

[@elisabethpatterson9417]

Yes I agree 100% It really sounds like a toxic relationship, "I can change, things will be different this time", "What more do I have to do to prove I love you?" relationship cycle etc. Sometimes it's like a rubber band you just have to stretch and stretch it until you finally break free

[@recklessmermaid]

Yes, even the contradiction in the line, “oh no,” does not sound like the joy of rekindling a relationship. It more so gives “oh no, here we go again”

[@teresal1039]

Agree. When you are in these cycles you reminisce over past relationships, losses, wins, and vulnerabilities…which is what Midnights represents

[@sunshineyrainbows13]

Perfect explanation. Labyrinth makes this clear

[@urgirlhanoo]

well explain!!!! and im agreeing with you

[@hibaabdulla6687]

“A single thread of gold has tied her to the most perfect turkey on the farm “ ohhh zack 😂😂

[@kelseybowman5463]

I’m dead 😂

[@chrystalnyan-5285]

folklore & evermore were never fictional, i always thought it was weird how everyone just accepted that they were, ofc she told the public that, and i would go as far as to say that the folklore love triangle probably has feelings and a true story behind it, sure she exaggerates and uses metaphors but it will mostly always come from an emotion and experience by her. like who honestly listened to songs like peace, tolerate it, the lakes and did not think she was communicating feelings she felt with joe in quarantine. also i kinda like how midnights makes more sense with the additional information.

[@saturnthemirrorball]

I never got how people said folklore/evermore was fictional?? she literally talked about how the songs are very deep to her & she relates to them in the long pond sessions. I get things like the love triangle & the no body no crime stories being fictional but the whole of the albums? the songs are very much from her heart & are written about her life.

[@allofyourbestfriends5417]

people think it’s fictional because she said it was lol

[@digitaldorothy]

I’m glad “auto-fiction” is a thing 😉

[@reneesmith983]

I'm mostly a Chieftie and I figured that out. Those lyrics were way too personal.

[@pozegnaniezmorzem4081]

Well, I didn't think "Tolerate it" is about Joe because first of all he's not "so much older than her". In fact, she's a one year older than him. Second of all why on earth would anyone assume back then that she's unhappy with him?

[@Danielle-ef6ed]

“Well he’s chuckling, and you’re not recognising” 😭💀

[@Ty-mu7gl]

Zack did not hold back on this one

[@dudesnowman]

😭😭😭

[@pavilova29]

“Snap out of a low period getting a new man. A pattern that is still repeating itself” TEA 💀

[@iwantabird]

And so accurate

[@mariakarolina7753]

The only thing that gives me a bit of comfort is that she was already in the grieving process way before it actually ended, so it's not as if she was freshly off a relationship and into a new one, it just appears that way

[@purplebutterfly314]

Taylor does have a tendency to move on quickly, but bearing in mind that she wrote you're losing me in 2021, her and Joe were already on the rocks for a long time before it officially ended. It was probably one of those situations where it's a slow death and you grieve the relationship while you're actually still in it and once you break up you're DONE and ready for something new.

[@hejti3894]

@@mariakarolina7753 her whole ˝i have never ever been happier˝ moments with ratty seems like she was still kind of in some sort of shock

[@maciedixon3983]

People are being very harsh on her. She’d already mourned that relationship and rebounded with Matty. For now her and trav are okay. And I honk until it’s over or there are very very obvious signs which I don’t see, we should try to keep her in mind and refrain from dichsssijg ti too much

[@annabanana9892]

“The rain is always gonna come if you’re standing with me” to “I was midnight rain” like :( she really said “I AM the rain now”

[@cottage-core_]

screaming and crying and kissing in the rain

[@gaylenwoof]

My prediction for TTPD is this: The themes will be more nuanced, complex, and mature than anything we’ve seen so far. It won’t be “I hate Joe; he’s a bad guy; he did me wrong…” I’m expecting more like “This was fated to fail - like a Shakespearean tragedy - neither of us could give what the other needed; for various reasons, the seeds of our discontent were woven in from the start.” Some songs will capture moments of bitterness where she blames him for his contributions to the tragedy, others will capture moments where she blames herself for her part but, hopefully, the overarching theme will be something that will surprise me - and everyone - something that only poetry can evoke - but I’ll take a stab at it and suggest (in words/concepts that she almost certainly won’t use, but I suspect might be operable in some weird way) “Jungian shadows, archetypes, unconscious meaning-seeking, individuation…” forces playing themselves out. I have no reason to think that she has any academic understanding of any of that, but I think she feels these types of “psychic dances” occurring and understands them in her own way - which is where the poetic expressions will kick some ass. Bottom line: It won’t be “Joe=bad guy” but more like “I learned some deep and crazy shit from my experiences with Joe.” Of course, I could be completely wrong. Maybe he cheated, abused, etc. and things will take a more stereotypical “he done me wrong” turn, but my intuitions are suggesting these more “mystical” dynamics, so I’ll go ahead and put my money on the table, just for the thrill of it.

[@peacenik5958]

wow...very well said

[@allofyourbestfriends5417]

i rlly hope the albums like this😭

[@Saphia_]

I really hope that's the case.

[@shineekute]

this aged like wine

[@kaylagreat4969]

wonderfully said

[@alexbebout7791]

The Netflix movie Taylor referenced is actually “Someone Great”, a movie about a woman reflecting on the demise of her 9 year relationship with an emotionally avoidant man that finally ends when she chooses her career 😬

[@nikkiknack]

W E L L

[@KendallVH]

My favorite lore ever is that the director of the movie wrote it based on the song clean and then Taylor saw the movie and wrote death by a thousand cuts. That’s why she played them together as surprise songs

[@graciekinsey2735]

SUCH A GOOD MOVIE. And looking back… so relevant to taylor’s situation…

[@giuliabonechi1864]

Well… That’s revealing.

[@meghandeshetler]

The heirloom turkey found dead in a ditch

[@ellieh0397]

I'm so sorry but I don't understand what heirloom turkey is,can you explain please?

[@peachythoughts542]

@@ellieh0397the heirloom turkey is a channel inside joke the means joe alwyn so joe is the heirloom turkey

[@nivedya_raj]

Heirloom Turkey a.k.a Joe Alwyn

[@hanalise546]

What is an heirloom turkey though? 😅

[@ellieh0397]

@@peachythoughts542 yeah, what does the phrase mean though?😂

[@Syldiggs14]

Us girls with empty cups and no change to give the snakes would certainly appreciate a video version of the pod

[@ameliadavis1979]

It is on KZbin too.

[@GrapefruitPizza]

Apparently you don't need premium Spotify to listen to the podcast, you can listen with just a free Spotify account :)

[@swiftafboii]

A crumb of the video version for this old blind lady👵🥲

[@originalparafan]

Yesssss please

[@kelseybowman5463]

YES PLEASE

[@justink5000]

I think Hits Different is very obviously about Joe!! She has dated him for 6-7 years, of course some part of her will feel devastated when this integral part of her life is over. Hits Different is about being very acquainted with a breakup - "old familiar body ache", as you pointed out - but how fundamentally different it feels when you have shared your life with that person for so long. In comparison to Joe, every other relationship in her life was basically a fling. "This is why they shouldn't kill off the main guy" - he was the main character in her life, her muse, and he left a gaping hole when he left. "I heard your key turn in the door" - a hint that this song is about somebody that she lived together with - again, that's only Joe. (Is this a hint that Joe continued to live in her home even after they broke up? Like he couldn't find a place on his own? LMAO 😭) "I could still melt your world, argumentative, antithetical dream girl" - this describes again perfectly the exact same relationship dynamic that you laid out in this video! "They say that if it's right, you know / each bar plays our song, nothing has ever felt so wrong" - hints that she has long thought about if breaking up with him would really be the right thing to do, and finally decided YES it is, but when it actually is over, she still feels conflicted because such a huge part of her life has suddenly broken away I could go on and on!!! Hits Different is one of my favourite songs off Midnights, especially after I understood that it was about the Joever breakup, the most complex breakup in the taylore! It is also so campy and fun and not self-serious. It's honestly so great.

[@delfi__arts]

I think the "maybe it was her" in the great war also speaks volumes about "insisting that friends look at each other like that". Even if there wasn't cheating involved, I bet there were moments where taylor wasn't feeling seen, but felt jealous of his interactions with another woman or women. I've also been thinking about illicit affairs being a way for her to express her feelings about having to hide her relationship from the world and how bad that made her feel, hidden in the lens of being the other woman

[@Mrs.Currie]

I am curious about Taylor working with Matty Healy during the midnights recordings, then dating him. Overlap maybe again but who knows.

[@Fucorii]

Not me reading this after Joe Alwyn's deleted scene of moaning Alison's name got leaked 💀😭

[@odaraperazzorodrigues4245]

@@Mrs.Currie people refuse to discuss the overlaping involving taylor, joe and matty. The prefer to pretend it doesn’t exist.

[@friendlynpc14]

Personally, I always understood "her" as being the same as "ego" in this situation, sort of the personification of Taylor's ego as a woman. But this makes so much sense and I need to know if that's what she meant now.

[@Fucorii]

@@friendlynpc14 it could have a double meaning. Just like "Oh my god, who is she? I get drunk on jealousy" from Blank Space. It could be interpreted as her talking about another girl and getting jealous of her OR it could be about herself that she becomes another person with her jealousy to a point she can't identify herself.

[@jasmindheureux4841]

Bejeweled really was the clue for me that sth was wrong with her relationship. The band asking if she had a man and answering with 'I can still say, I don't remember' really got me thinking. So when they eventually annonced the break-up I wasn't that surprised...

[@absolutetwaddle]

Yes. Bejeweled was really when I was like 👀

[@EmilyGroceJ]

Question was it for me. The "does it feel like everything's just second best after that meteor strike?" I was like "... Uhm... Say what? Either Joe has confidence of steal in both their relationship and himself or there's something a mist here."

[@SanyaTheShe]

Same! I've been having those thoughts for a while befores, but as soon as I heard Bejeweled I was like oh, they're done done, it's gonna be over soon. I kept it to myself though, it was still a time when everyone loved Joe and was eating up the whole "I'm writing pure fiction" thing

[@juliagee8896]

I was like...is this about Calvin?? Because if it's about Joe, YIKES

[@ia490]

Me pretending it's nothing back when Midnights came out: 🤡

[@lins_z2]

Not the “princess and her Turkey” LMAO sounds like the worse Barbie movie ever and I love it!!!!

[@marciarocapupuche2343]

Was looking for this coment 😂 That line was gold lol

[@nightingale74]

the way I SCREECHED!!! BOOTS ON THE GROUND REPORTING THANK YOU ZACH!!

[@dagmare.6357]

A song that isn't talked enough about is The Alcott!! That also tells us so much about their relationsship and there is so many references to the color gold

[@hibaabdulla6687]

Agree!!! The Alcott and renegade. 2 songs with so much to unpack that she cleverly hid under the nationals.

[@Mrs.Currie]

Yes that song and renegade slipped under the radar a little bit and they're so good.

[@absolutetwaddle]

The Alcott and Renegade feel like evermore b sides I don’t care about logic they just do 🤎🤎🤎

[@GrapefruitPizza]

The guy from The National who sings it said it's about him and his wife lol...although it would be juicier if it were based on Joe and Taylor.

[@edensylvester13]

@@GrapefruitPizza yes and that's definitely important to know, but I think Taylor was clearly drawn towards it for a reason and infused her own emotions in too

[@splishness]

As soon as the playlists dropped last night, I was like, 'I need Zach's opinion on this. I bet it'll be up tomorrow morning.' You didn't disappoint.

[@tefu3621]

Sameeeee

[@originalparafan]

Same here

[@daniellelevine9638]

“if I were Joe, I would call the cops” 🤣 I love your one liners you just casually slap in there

[@saima.nijhum]

I said it before I will say it again. She blasted her love in FIVE ALBUMS!!! He wouldn’t even utter her name in public. The math is off.

[@Mrs.Currie]

That he didn't utter her name was seen for years as a praiseworthy thing.

[@laramorrison5973]

he is just a private person, you can't hold that against someone. He doesn't/didn't owe the world or her fans anything, especially as they read into everything so much, it's better to give absolutely nothing and protect your own peace.

[@rosecoloredbby]

Um yes and no. On one hand, it's obvious she's the type of person to show her love like that, and probably expects whoever she loves to show it that way in return. On the other, he doesn't have to prove to complete strangers anything about his relationship, and he doesn't owe the world these grand gestures just because he happens to be dating a celebrity. If anything I think this just shows how they weren't compatible in the end. Two different people with two very different personalities who want very different things. Just the way it is. Also, five albums? Rep, lover, folklore, evermore, and.... midnights? Midnights is half a breakup album 😭

[@jasmine-mg4er]

everyone defending him saying hes a private person but.. not being there when your partner is receiving aoty (which you literally have credits on) and not being there when they get an honorary doctorate is just insane - even his parents were there

[@laramorrison5973]

@@jasmine-mg4er again you don't know these people, maybe he was filming something, maybe he just didn't feel comfortable going. Taylor didn't go to his movie premieres either. You can't read into something you don't know anything about

[@kellikocha7733]

I was right about Lavender Haze being about denial and Taylor trying to convince herself that she doesn’t want or need marriage

[@bastetowl3258]

or she could just not want to go the traditional route and just wants to focus on her career and dating around. not every woman wants to get married or have children

[@kyoka1528]

​@@bastetowl3258Exactly! The fact people try to insist every woman does it is just so ignorant.

[@HarshaUdayani]

@@bastetowl3258 but then she literally said she could marry him with paper rings. so maybe she wanted to have a married life with him? like she literally dropped a hint for him and he still couldnt pick it up?

[@walkingtheline1729]

@@bastetowl3258 she was literally saying take my hand in willow and talking about having his child in peace. I think she wants some aspects of married life and family probably not the whole.

[@hanzib31]

​​@@bastetowl3258 Of course not....but she went from "I'd marry you with paper rings", literally writing what sounds like wedding vows in Lover, and "I'd give you my wild, I'd give you a child"....to "that 1950s shit they want from me", was quite a shift. I think it's natural to question what happened there.

[@alexandrite61]

It's such a strange thing to me because it seems like Joe probably genuinely did love her - the version of her that he saw in private, the version that ran away with him and not wanting anything to do with fame, just Taylor, not Taylor Swift. But anyone who knows Taylor knows how unabashedly she is about wanting success, recognition, and of course fame. You can't have one without the other, and since he met her during a time when she needed to not be Taylor Swift, then followed by Lover which was when almost everyone (including Taylor) thought her appeal was on a decline, and then the pandemic happened, he probably got to be around the first one more. Then, she started achieving career peaks again, which gave her the chance fully became Taylor Swift again, and he couldn't reconcile with that. Looking in the grand scheme of things, I wonder if Taylor and Joe would have ended up together if snakegate hadn't happened, because it seemed like it was that very event that tied them together (Taylor herself also toyed with this idea a bit in invisible strings). It drove her into hiding and crafting a more private lifestyle, and as we all know now, Joe's private approach to things while much appreciated during the harder days, was also one of the things that broke them later on. If she hadn't been forced into all of that and Joe had to be with her in the public eye the way Travis does now, is that something he would've done?

[@Joannachin]

I think theres indication enough that Joe was dealing with mental health issues, so was she so I imagine it must be complicated to love someone so much and still find it difficult to be together, probably that's the reason they stayed together for so long

[@ayomidedareabel5525]

Taylor has said in past interviews that her relationship with joe wasn't ideal for her but that she'd compromise if that is what her partner wants. Honestly I believe they were in a situationship for a long time during the rep era cause there are a lot of songs where she begs for commitment. Either way sha I hope her and travis stay happy together

[@tay_rizul]

@@ayomidedareabel5525Can you expand more on “her begging for commitment”?

[@darlinlopez9260]

@@Joannachin But when she was being attacked back in 2017, hated by half the world, Joe was there. How sad it would be if when he fell into depression she just left him and that's it. Nobody knows what happened, or it was just a normal breakup, Joe no longer wanted to be with Taylor, nor Taylor with Joe.

[@darlinlopez9260]

@@ayomidedareabel5525 I hope this relationship makes her happy, but being honest and analyzing Travis with his infidelities, even a reality show to find a partner (which in itself is a big red flag) In my opinion Travis is super happy with Taylor's fame , has even released products with his name, there is nothing wrong with it. But it feels like he's using Taylor's image for profit and sooner or later it gets complicated.

[@nextstop-everywhere]

I love Taylor but i dont think she knows how to communicate in her relationships. At her big age shes still writing about guys not knowing how she feels, things breaking down, ect. I know she spent the 1989 era single but i think she needs to spend even more time single, getting therapy, chilling out so she learns how to behave like an adult in her relationships.

[@autumnjames7950]

She has stated she feels like she is stuck frozen at the age she got famous

[@nextstop-everywhere]

@@autumnjames7950 sounds like a job for therapy. She can't stay an adult teenager forever.

[@soude85]

@@nextstop-everywhere Oh you would be surprised how many people are. It is what it is, you can’t force people to behave the way you find it appropriate. You can’t expect people to “just grow up”, that’s like telling someone who’s depressed to “be happy”. Arrested Development can have many reasons and there’s no easy “fix”.

[@LadyAuston]

“Exile” and “tolerate it” told me everything I needed to know about their relationship.

[@absolutetwaddle]

This

[@edawhat3737]

tolerate it isnt about joe

[@LadyAuston]

@@edawhat3737you keep thinking that

[@scatterbrain8202]

joe literally wrote the first verse of exile

[@ultravioletpisces3666]

@@scatterbrain8202um… that’s not better

[@will9784]

we applaud you for all these emergency videos

[@annaphallactic]

I always wondered why I fell so in love with Swift's work after my divorce when I had spent my entire life previously being an insufferable hipster, and this video explains it well: my marriage was also a drama triangle. Thanks Zach, let me know where to send my therapy copay. 😜

[@annaphallactic]

I also suspect that Midnight Rain is about both Joe and Taylor Lautner, like she's conflating the two men and creating a fictional love.

[@lilaboxx]

Now that you're mentioning exile, I'd like to point out that there's this lyrical parallel between exile, maroon and you're losing me, in exile it's "holding all this love out here in the hall", in maroon it's "you were standing hollow-eyed on the hallway " and finally in you're losing me it's "now you're running down the hallway and you know what they all say you don't know what you got until it's gone"

[@adrianneziri4522]

You’re right and in Coney Island too ( were you standing in the hallway….). I didn’t catch this one but it totally makes sense!

[@nikkiknack]

If hallwaywalls could talk lolol

[@shar3859]

and in Hits Different "I heard your key turn in the door down the hallway"

[@betty_taylor13]

I think the hallway is a liminal space that Taylor uses to symbolise distance

[@lilaboxx]

​@@betty_taylor13 That's a very good point

[@arinalemmer4637]

After listening to Evermore for the first time I genuinely thought they broke up. I mean... Coney Island, Champagne problems, Happiness, Tolerate it??? I was surprised when I found out that no, in fact, this was not a break up album. But it was a "crumbling relationship" album looking back. I think she was still right where he left her, while considering it might be time to go.

[@feflorees]

a) we’re SO NOT ready, this album will unalive us b) heirloom turkey is so dead c) the video version of the podcast would be awesome!

[@ameliadavis1979]

It is o KZbin too.

[@blakeberrrry]

Ppl hate you bc you hold Taylor accountable but I rly respect you for that

[@palomathereptilian]

Clicked immediately! I got so shocked when I saw the playlists, I was waiting for your analysis! 👀 This is gonna be great, the heirloom turkey roast will be amazing lmao

[@palomathereptilian]

My birthday is in a 14th, will call it a Fortnight now

[@thischickkej]

i'm completely off of social media now, so you are literally my news for taylor messiness

[@CVB6]

A song that is a warning sign for me has always been Right where you left me…yes it is written from a perspective of someone much younger stuck in time… it something about this song is very heartbreaking to me. Taylor has always been able to move on, inspite of her relationship she was always able to move forward with a new goal… Right where you left me felt like she is completely lost, she has no idea what to do or how to pull herself out of it…she was just stuck…and that always stood out to me…also why I love the song so much…because she was not confused, just lost or stuck.

[@chrystalnyan-5285]

i think the age gap narrative in tolerate it fits so well even for her and joe is because of their hierachy dynamic

[@zkxnkj534]

This. She looks up to him. "I talk shit with my friends. It's like I'm wasting your honour". I also think she just added in the age detail to throw people off, bc she wasn't ready for the world to know in case they worked things out

[@watermelonwhiskeyy]

im sorry but the word viper in one of her songs reminded me of you and how much you moral policed/influenced people to hate on joe and rhat she's someone who could be silenced babygirl shes the most powerful woman in usa and world i dint think someone can be silenced like that im glad taylor sift herself called you out that you all are just dressed as empath and are like the 5yo who do not want mommy to have a life

[@regulusthestar]

really, ttpd sucked & it really showed who taylor is as a person (outing joe's depression & saying that was the reason they couldn't be together & then seemingly emotionally cheating on him too, was too shitty on her part- speaking as a person who was a huge swiftie & has only started to distance myself from her to break parasocial relations after travis's appearance) but this album was a big deal breaker for me. joe doesn't deserve this hate- & even if he did some wrongs, he still doesn't deserve something as bad as this (death threats & all). it's time people stop blindly defending taylor because homegirl has had 12 (13th going i guess) relationships. people better start seeing it's her fault too, 12 unsuccessful relationships isn't a joke. either it's her bad choice in men, or her toxic & "me! me! me!" behavior. she may be self aware but not like she tries to fix it because she thinks it's cool being an "unhinged girlie" (besides, you're a 34 year old woman for fuck's sake, stop calling yourself a "girl" & start taking accountability for your actions) i feel bad for joe

[@purplebutterfly314]

A lot of the turkey stans use the argument "he loved her at her worst!" to defend him and ok, but what about loving her at her best? How about loving her once there's no enemy for them to fight and nobody for him to save her from? When she's on top of the world, breaking records and selling out stadiums? The man couldn't even name his favorite songs of her, he always seemed like he was almost embarassed to be with her and publicly claim her. She was always the one jumping through hoops and sacrificing her own career to cater to him when nobody pointed a gun at his head and forced him to date a famous person. You're spot on with the drama triangle comparison, it seems like their relationship was always doomed if there wasn't some enemy for them to battle against, whether it was her cancellation, the media and the public interest or Taylor herself. Even though this was hurting her, he always turned a blind eye to it because it suited him and he didn't seem willing to compromise on anything. I think Joe only loved Taylor the person and not Taylor the superstar, but you can't really have one without the other. The constant praise Travis Kelce showers her with now really exposes this contrast. We don't have any songs about Travis yet to know if they connect on a deeper level and it's still a bit early to know if they're in it for the long haul. But no matter if they get married or if they end up fizzling out soon, I think this relationship will be important to show her that she CAN have both and doesn't need to dull her shine or sacrifice her career in order to have a loving partner.

[@v_loves_books]

@jamiefowler4036 I don't see it that way. He didn't outwardly show he was supporting her achievements or her art, and that's an important part of her too, it's her career. Again, idk if he's just a really private person or whatnot, maybe he was supporting her in private.

[@karen9av]

@jamiefowler4036but the thing is you can’t love Taylor (the person) without loving Taylor Swift (the artist). Taylor Swift, the artist, is the thing that makes her happy and proud, it’s her job, it’s her dream and it’s everything she wanted to be since she was a little girl. She temporarily took a break before rep, but she came back to it because it’s a big part of who she is. And in this case if Joe wasn’t accepting of Taylor Swift (the artist), it was never going to work out. A big part of a relationship is support and respect, but he didn’t love, support or respect a big part of her.

[@ayomidedareabel5525]

​​@jamiefowler4036the man literally said he didn't want to be associated with that part of her world, never showed up for her at award shows, acted like he was forced to be at her concert, called making music with her like making sourdough bread. What more proof do you want that proves that man didn't want to acknowledge her career and achievements. I agree with not sending him or his co stars death threats but if the man couldn't even pretend to be the good bf in public how bad would it have been in private. There is a reason none of her friends like that man

[@PinkAnxmal]

Absolutely unhinged, delusional and parasocial thing to say about two people you don’t even know

[@rosecoloredbby]

"I think Joe only loved Taylor the person and not Taylor the superstar" funny because in typical romcoms, the famous archetype character usually wants someone to love them for them and NOT their superstar persona lmao.

[@mckayaitch7335]

“Now if I were Joe I’d be calling the cops” lmao😂

[@emilyrose2895]

Tbh I’m kinda nervous that TTPD isn’t going to be as groundbreaking as we think it will be. She hyped up midnights in the same way… and it was good, but it definitely didn’t live up to what she promoted it as

[@sassy6498]

I don't think she is selling it as a groundbreaking , but it is the first break up album after Red so there is a lot of expectations. I think this is an album she needed to write and release and she is not that bothered about being experimental or different. This is her getting all out so she can move on .

[@Nadine-sb3gh]

When she hyped up TTPD to be groundbreaking at all though? She's not even promoting it other than its breakup album

[@emilyrose2895]

@@Nadine-sb3gh just the cover and the over-dramatic marketing with each variant having another dramatic black and white cover with a different saying on it is really amping people up for a “folklore but only autobiographical” masterpiece album. At least that’s how I see it through people’s reactions. But for me, if it’s going to sound like a Lana del rey album, like the song titles do, or an album of “your losing me”s it might not be my cup of tea.

[@Nadine-sb3gh]

@@emilyrose2895 its on you and your expectations then, not by design or coming from Taylor or the marketing herself 🤷‍♀️ not sure how all her covers are groundbreaking at all. Just good marketing. Its not that it wont be great or groundbreaking but so far she's not selling it as more than its breakup album. If its not really good or subpar we shoulnt blame it on her 'she selling it as groundbreaking album and im disappointed its not' just saying.

[@phoebeel]

I can totally see that. I'm a bit scared about that too! To me, midnight's overall fell flat, I only really love the Great War because it sounds like folklore material. Folkmore was her best work and I didn't feel much listening to the new songs. Where are the deep feelings? She might actually return to those deep things now that she's free to tell all. Or maybe she's become so hyper corporate that she just wants to sell as much as possible and thus puts out a random album because her fans will literally call her farts a masterpiece. I love Taylor but I am a critical fan, and I see so much fanaticism in her fans. Everything is always the best thing ever, she's now made up to be the best musician of history when she's just ONE of the best ones. I totally saw midnights winning aoty as a sell out on the Grammy's part.

[@PaulManaloto-t8k]

"please don't be a stranger whose laugh i could recognize anywhere- well he's chuckling and you're not recognizing. 🎤🌚" PLSSSS 😭

[@alanlovisi6501]

i truly see “hoax” as the most revealing song about their relationship… the part when she sings “but what you did was just as dark” breaks my heart because it seems like she really put him in this altar when she feels like she needs to praise don’t matter what but then the person breaks everything down with some really dark situation that i can’t even imagine what it is. I have some suspicions, especially after “bigger than the whole sky” but i’ll keep them until TTPD comes out

[@michellechaneldungo7370]

I'm thinking that the "dark" is the same as the sleight of hand = skillful deception = cheating :( tell me if you agree

[@Ty-mu7gl]

It also might've been a failed marriage proposal or maybe even something to do with a pregnancy. If “Bigger Than The Whole Sky” ends up being about some kind of abortion or miscarriage in her life, I am gonna crawl into a ball and cry for a long, long time

[@zkxnkj534]

I bet it's cheating

[@zkxnkj534]

I think it's possible she had a miscarriage bc of the movie "Who's afraid of Virginia Wolf" and it's connection to TTPD, but that wasn't the betrayal. I think Joe cheated.

[@zkxnkj534]

Also, another line that makes me think of a miscarriage is "I looked around in a blood soaked gown and I saw something they can't take away" (hospital gown?!!!) from You're On Your Own Kid.

[@user-jd9qn2yc4z]

Amazing video as always! I also think it’s interesting to note that in tolerate it she sings “where’s that man who threw blankets over my barbed wire?” I think this could be referencing invisible string, where she sings “wrapped all my past mistakes in barbed wire.” I know the wording isn’t exactly the same, but barbed wire seems like a very specific thing to keep bringing up. And then of course in DBATC we have “paper cut stings from our paper thin plans.” The fact that this lyric and the song paper rings co exist on the same album is kinda wild to me and is a big red flag. It provides a window into how rocky their relationship really was.

[@lmn977]

I'm curious about something and wondered if a more seasoned Swiftie has a take. Do you think this return to the breakup album, at this point in her career, will be more ambivalently received than when she was younger? What I mean is: previous albums were a young woman/girl examining her relationship with an equally/more famous/sometimes older guy. But this one is gonna be a full grown billionaire- with a famously ride-or-die fanbase, incredible PR team, absolutely global reach, journalists scared to question her- using her massive platform to tell her side of a necessarily two-sided story. She can portray her ex however she chooses and, deservedly or not, he'll never be able to respond in kind. To me, however little connection I feel to him as a person, that feels like a charged power dynamic with potentially complicated ethics. This is a sincere question, I'm really curious to know what more informed fans think!

[@dessieangel1021]

Yeah that’s honestly where I feel icky as well. There is a power dynamic there. But to be fair, she had to sort of hide herself for him. I was hoping that she would go fictional. But this is a 6 year relationship

[@soude85]

Music is art. You can’t put restrictions on it, just because it’s subjective, unflattering or inconvenient. Her art made her famous and to expect her now to stop being an artist because she’s influential, is hypocritical at best.

[@Eragon2679]

​@@soude85they didn't say that she shouldn't be allowed to make art. They just pointed out the power imbalance between a billionaire popstar that's loved by millions of fans and a "jobless turkey" (as the people here seem to like to call him). He received death threats from her fan and she knows she has some seriously crazy people stalking her that might think they would do her a favor if they harm him. The promotion really left a bitter taste in my mouth, dven more than the album itself (which was mainly about Matty Healy it seems).

[@Ty-mu7gl]

The colors she associated to Joe and herself are also pretty fucking telling. She's gold, he's blue. She's shiny and eye-catching and expensive, he's obscure and meditative and maybe even permanently sad. I remember being so confused at Paper Rings-all fine and dandy and then she says “I'm with you even if it makes me blue”??? Like?? Why are you with someone who makes you blue? I also feel like she wanted this one to be “the one” as a big middle finger to the press and the haters who said she was incapable of that. Then again, looking back, it was all doomed because her business, like you said, cannot be separated from her identity. Not only because her work is self-referential, but because she hasn't had the chance to build her identity around anything else... We're talking about a girl who probably started taking media training before age 14. That surely must do something to you and how you view yourself-at the very least, I think it probably merges your sense of self with your work in a way no regular person could understand. Her life IS her work. Before she started in music (which isn't a long time anyway), the only other label she had time to identify with was the outcast/underdog one because of her experience in school. So now, in the present, the superstar label and the underdog one really make for an explosive mix of this insanely famous person who somehow never feels 100% safe or normal. Before Joe, she always openly rejected the possibility of hiding away or keeping her relationships a secret because it made her feel abnormal or like she “was running from the law”. So of course we should've known, but hey. Also, during the Secret Sessions, there were so many stories and anecdotes about Joe that made me raise an eyebrow. Like the one about how Taylor was stuck in a cycle of reading the bad press about her and Joe took her phone without her knowing one day and literally deleted all of her apps. Like?? She thought it was this amazing act of love and it might've been, but also ???? Who are you to do that? It might've helped her but it's still disrespectful and condescending in a way. And this is a bit more nitpicky maybe, but it also felt funny to learn that their friends often called them “siamese cats” because they did everything together. Like, cute, but also... that does not sound very healthy? 😬 Idk anyway, I was still a believer and my heart still shattered when the news broke 😭😭 Not my friends checking out on me as if it were my relationship lmao

[@zkxnkj534]

she is not gold. their love is gold. he is blue, as well as gold

[@samantham.5178]

I always thought “Hits Different” may have been about a secret break in Taylor and Joe’s relationship

[@rosecoloredbby]

This is pure speculation but I'm 90% sure they broke up (or took breaks from each other) and got back together several times during the 2021/2022 time. If not several times, at least once

[@dudesnowman]

omfg haven't watched yet but your podcast ep that just dropped had me FED. i am obsessed with you only able to speak in taylor lyrics and madeline making progressively more serious threats to the turkeys life 💀

[@ParkerR5678]

Her putting Renegade on the bargaining playlist makes me so happy

[@anna-sleeps]

Next album better be an academically structured monograph on why Joe felt better than Tom Hiddleston to her because I just can’t get my head around it

[@mifnp8887]

I really like Joe. I hope Taylor doesn't do him dirty on this record.

[@streets_aheadd]

zack the level of sense you talk with is literally a dying art. 💀

[@Sherlocked.Loki-Swift]

I'm honestly so proud of myself that i never liked Joe Alwyn and I always had concerns. I'm so proud of Taylor that she's starting to realize the truth of the situation and stand up for herself. Secondly 100% irrelevant butTom Hiddleston is so much better looking than Joe Alwyn and i can't stand that Taylor couldn't see that 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@manvidikshit74]

I also think the anxious avoidant attachment styles dynamic would also explain a lot of what you said here, Zach. Esp the anxiety she is hiding in her lyrics, his withdrawal and non communicativeness, her feeling fed up of his avoidance, his running after her only when he realises she may actually leave. Interestingly, anxious avoidant pairings usually do not work, and end when the anxious partner has reached the end of their rope. This sounds exactly like Taylor to me.

[@Mrs.Currie]

Yes 💯

[@datuangela]

I feel like Taylor is anxious avoidant attachment style and Joe is avoidant attachment style.

[@LornaLens]

Anxious and avoidant lover album... Loving him ruined her life. I could never understand the attraction except for the fact he looked like her. Gorgeous. Other than that total opposites in most ways. She needs to feel normal. The dodging and secrets take energy. Draining. Anxious attachment in the limerance state. It was an obsession, the red flags get ignored, delusion of the control. Sex is addictive, the rollercoaster ride. But it makes you fill sick, you can't eat and you get off or die. Reclaim the land. Shimmer. She didn't lose anything she learned. She is still a poet. A mastermind. I always love your vids Z. ❤

[@brookelouise1561]

I literally just finished the podcast episode and now I get to watch this? You're feeding us so well 🦃🦃🦃

[@lilaboxx]

I think maybe Labyrinth could have been added in too because it also seems to show some cracks in the relationship... Theres also an interesting parallel with you're losing me, the "you know how much i hate thst everybody judt expects me to bounce back just like that" to "I'm getting tired even for a phoenix always rising from the ashes mending all her gashes"

[@mirandakruse5434]

This is the most thoughtful, intelligent, well said breakdown of a thing I have ever heard…what a spectacular analysis full of deeply relevant information we should all be paying attention to in our own lives…this could quite literally be a collegiate Psychology lecture

[@mirandakruse5434]

Also, “if I was Joe, I’d be calling the cops” I almost peed myself 😭😂

[@epiphanyedits]

taylor constantly victimizing joe awlyn has really backfired on her. now she's giving us hints about how he wasnt that good to her, but many swifties refuse to believe her because she constantly wrote about how amazing joe was.

[@shar3859]

it makes so much sense if you think "why would Taylor write honestly about bad parts of her relationship while she's still in it," like that's basically guaranteeing a breakup. so we only get hints, consciously or subconsciously, sprinkled throughout her songs and it's only after a breakup that all the bad aspects emerge

[@tvil8]

I love that she's with someone that is secure enough to field the annoying questions that will inevitably come when the music is released.

[@zkxnkj534]

finally, a man.

[@aquajewlz1]

Such a good point

[@darlinlopez9260]

HAHAHAHA, it's hilarious, Travis has a terrible history with women, it's clear that he's a cheater and it's obvious that he wants to talk about the most famous woman of the moment to profit. And if you mean that Joe and her were private, it is because you clearly forget that Taylor was hated, harassed by the paparazzi, by the press, she had even already broken up with other couples because of that level of persecution.

[@darlinlopez9260]

@@zkxnkj534 Wait a while when it comes out that he cheated on her,

[@Swiftie287]

Zach, the way you so casually say “turkey” amid your insanely eloquent analysis and commentary kills me every single time

[@concertvids_and_mashups]

25:25 that grit your teeth and dont say anything approach in conflict seems like an english thing, unfortunately. coming from a british woman this is very irritating and have just failed in a relationship with someone who seems to act a similar way to the way you describe joe as acting when in conflicts

[@levaithen2.0.75]

Heirloom turkey gets cooked every Thanksgiving but April 19th he will be COOKED.

[@KendallVH]

Such a portrait of an anxious-avoidant relationship. Only someone with an anxious attachment style could write the kinds of songs she does… it’s why we love her and feel so much empathy for her❤

[@laclochard]

I've read this before and I'll say it again. Please stop with that pseudoscience of attachment styles. There is no 'style' there. The dude made her anxious. Do you see her anxious with Travis now? No, she is extremely relaxed. Thank goodness we can compare now.

[@regulusthestar]

@@laclochard is she relaxed with him or with the publicity & exposure she's getting? we haven't seen them ever without camera's being pointed at their faces. besides, not like joe had chained her. she could've left

[@soude85]

@@regulusthestar 😂 How would you see them without a camera pointed at them..?!

[@KendallVH]

@@laclochard That's because Travis likely has a secure attachment style-- Joe was likely avoidant hence her anxiety was heightened. It's not pseudoscience it's psychology. The point of learning about them is to learn how you can heal them-- the easiest way is by being in a relationship with a secure person.

[@KendallVH]

@@soude85 She is a diaristic songwriter, it is pretty easy to know her feelings about stuff.

[@lobomarcela]

I died at "well he's chuckling and you're not recognizing" 😭

[@stella07031]

SAME

[@epiphanyedits]

something i really dont like about the swiftie community is fan accounts posting about how they miss joe. or how they hate joe. or how they love travis. or how travis isnt a good boyfriend. or they post about harry, taylor, john, jake, any of her lovers/exes. 'swifties' is a TAYLOR SWIFT fandom. attaching these men to taylor, arguing over whose better, crying over joe, hoping travis is taylors end game, etc etc. is giving women arent interesting enough without men at their sides. if you wanna cry about how much you miss joe awlyn, go cry with the joe alwyn fandom. oh wait, you cant find one? hm.

[@ayomidedareabel5525]

Wishing she's happy in a relationship that actually benefits her now both personally and in a career sense isn't a bad thing. And honestly I like Travis because of his personality I kinda relate to him to in a way. Regardless you can't really separate Taylor from her relationship. I do agree with the people that go overboard with it e.g the ones cursing her to be pregnant while on tour

[@epiphanyedits]

@@ayomidedareabel5525i dont really care if someone is like "i hope travis and taylor are happy while they're together!!" im more so talking about the people that think they get an opinion in her relationships. like the swiftie accounts that post about how they hope travis and taylor break up because travis isnt good enough. or how they miss joe and he was a better boyfriend. theres also swiftie accounts that ONLY post about taylors love life.

[@tay_rizul]

“Oh wait you can’t find one” 😂😂 I’m dead 💀

[@Mrs.Currie]

Best comment 🏆

[@i.8231]

couldn’t agree more. they are soooo annoying

[@justwonder1404]

Ok but Joe Alwyn contributing to his own breakup song is kinda epic.

[@zkxnkj534]

I sometimes wonder if he actually did or she just credited him bc she quoted him or for some other reason

[@justwonder1404]

​@@zkxnkj534she doesn't seem likely to easily give away credit for her work. If she really felt the need to do that, that would be a huge red flag about that relationship in and of itself.

[@laramorrison5973]

I have always thought that Evermore not getting as much attention by Taylor was very telling. So many songs on it seem to reflect a very rocky time in her and Joe's relationship even despite Taylor saying they are fictional.

[@karimari79]

I think there is a hint to the relationship being over during the pandemic because in Your Losing Me, she says, "We thought a cure would come through in time, now I fear it won't".

[@dreamchaser7603]

„The most perfect Turkey on the farm“🤣😂 Why is it so funny? How did you come up with heirloom Turkey concept? That’s iconic 🙌🏼

[@that90skid67]

I believe he said Azalea Banks coined the phrase and he thought it was apt

[@walkingtheline1729]

I wonder if the folklore love triangle is the story of her and Joe getting together. Betty(taylor) dancing with tom and choosing Tom over Joe then Joe goes off and has sex with a girl(august) taylor can't really be mad at the other girl because her and Joe were in the talking faze so August is more sympathetic then in cardigan is the after math and them coming back together.

[@darlastarbuck]

I listened you to Peace earlier today and realized for the first time the lyric is 'your integrity makes me SEEM small', not 'feel small'. I wondered about that.

[@aletamagliocchetti1773]

my denial is telling myself that gorgeous is about tom hiddleston instead of joe because joe skeeves me out sorry oops

[@annaolsson5441]

Agree

[@Mrs.Currie]

I thought at first that Gorgeous was about Tom. H. When I found out it wasn't I was also in denial because I like it better my way.

[@Susiehighschool]

My gosh, I’ve watched so many videos about TS & THIS one made me feel like I actually understand her & SEE her truly now, both the good & bad. The human, the superstar, and the girl who just wants to be loved & seen for all of those pieces. You’ve prompted an immediate binge of all your content ❤❤❤

[@shar3859]

If you loved this video you'd also love "Taylor Swift's Fame & Anxiety: A Deep Dive Through Her Discography" where he talks about Taylor and her psychology throughout her public life

[@sirsimonthesentry4787]

Joe & Gigi did a photo shoot together. Gigi invited them both to a party in April before the Met Gala, so she met him there first.

[@sassy6498]

Yes and I think Taykor is the one who got him into the Met Gala bc she was hosting it that year. Which is why in " Mastermind" she said nothing was accidental when they later found each other at the Met Gala .

[@sunshineyrainbows13]

She said only a million times that she met him in a bar 😂

[@sirsimonthesentry4787]

@@sunshineyrainbows13 yes - at The Nice Guy restaurant/bar at Gigi’s party in LA on the 29th. Most people believe they met at Met Gala but she met him 3 day’s earlier at Gigi’s party. Then they had dates/go out at some dive bar in NYC once they started dating.

[@emmmma143]

As a long time fan who was 13, in the TRENCHES for this woman in 2016, and watched all of this unfold, i am SO excited for ttpd. I just know girlie has so much to say. She had to create two incredibly deep albums about stories based on her relationship issues rather than about the issues themselves because she was still with him but she isn’t anymore. I NEED a truly, as you say, “going rogue” song. She better give us the juicy stuff

[@tinamardt7734]

Excited to see people finally acknowledge all the red flags in Betty… I know where it went wrong - goes on to blame Betty for making him cheat, blames August for picking him up, says Inez can’t usually be believed, says he’s thinking of Betty whilst sleeping with August, calls her friends stupid, turns up uninvited to her party after cheating on her…. Yes he triggers me! Hahhaha

[@myamygdala7]

It blows my mind how good you are at piecing together everything we have so far. Thank you for the effort you allways put into these videos, Zach!

[@notcxle2663]

I feel like this album is going to have so much clarity in Taylor's life, something that we haven't seen in a while. Because 1989 through Lover was more simply laid out, and folklore and evermore were fictional. And if the writing even holds a candle to Red I'm deeply interested in this.

[@MandiNiday-pi9do]

As soon as I saw these playlists dropped, my first thought was “I can’t wait for the swiftologist video about this”

[@ceciliarogers5287]

Spot on!! You didn't mention Champagne Problems - maybe the protagonist in the song is speaking from Joe's perspective, he's the one who didn't want to marry her. They wrote it together and most of the other songs they wrote together are (under the surface) about their relationship.

[@kristinadavis1726]

I saw the playlists and prayed for a swiftologist video

[@darraghcollins1374]

“Well he’s chuckling and you’re not recognising it” lmao 🤣

[@joseawebo]

I love how your bias against lover made you contradict A LOT. You have nice points when talking about Lover, the problem is that in your opinion Lover is an inauthentic record, child bops exclusively, too staged, and not real because it pretends to only talk about their perfect love..... BUT THEN you exemplify why that is not true. Of course, Taylor being in the honeymoon stage is going to protect Joe, but the traces of conflict were always there, on false god (which everybody agrees is more like a sensual song rather than a kid's bop but whatever), afterglow, Cornelia Street, cruel summer. For me lover is the more realistic view of love that Taylor has given to us.