The Office's Jan - Victim of a Toxic Workplace

Go to NordVPN.com/thetake and use code THETAKE to get 68% off a 2 year plan plus 1 additional month free. It’s risk free with Nord’s 30 day money-back guarantee! | We tend to remember Jan Levinson (Melora Hardin) where no one wants to be: at rock bottom. But The Office’s unhinged antagonist was introduced as a reasonable professional, a serious woman who did her best to manage Michael Scott (Steve Carrell) - a task he doesn’t make easy. The most consistent part of Jan’s journey is Dunder Mifflin, a deceivingly hostile workplace that suffers from a serious misogyny problem. Jan’s story is really a kind of cautionary tale about how offices treat their female employees, and how internalized cultures of sexism can often have traumatic effects. Here’s our Take on how toxic work conditions led to Jan’s eventual downfall, and why a supportive environment is crucial to any woman’s success.
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[@yogawithkassandra]

✨Queen of collapsing in on herself like a dying star 🌟

[@cuandobajalamarea]

she’s so real lol

[@tamjidhassan7324]

​@@cuandobajalamarea hm,, lol!!

[@Aerojet01]

I don't think she's a workplace victim. This is cynical feminism. I agree, she's a very competent and smart person, but she appears very sensitive and allows her emotions to rule her head. Even men have to tolerate jerks. That's life.

[@DeathnoteBB]

I always hated how Jan got shafted as crazy and Michael was narratively pushed as a “lovable goofball”. He was always emotionally manipulative and extremely unprofessional.

[@DeathnoteBB]

@@MsDoIIy I was thinking more people like Jan and Pam who were constantly harassed by him only for _them_ to apologize to _him_

[@janwouter5215]

Uhm wait what, it is integral to her character. That's like saying I hate how Kelly got shafted as talking too much and being self-centred.

[@itzumiv]

exactly, Michael should've been fired aaages before she got fired. Definitely double standards.

[@sammillward62]

Yes. He is constantly acting sexist (to all the women in the office) racist (toward Oscar Kelly Darryl and Stanley) and homophobic (Oscar) and sometimes fat shaming (Phyllis Stanley and Kevin) and ageist (towards Stanley Phyllis Meredith and Creed), not to mention that he constantly harasses Ryan, and no one calls him on any of his behavior, and when they do, it never sticks.

[@janwouter5215]

@@itzumiv at least micheal got results

[@konraddygudaj257]

"I am taking a calculated risk. What's the upside? I overcome my nausea, fall deeply in love, babies, normalcy, no more self-loathing. Downside? I date Michael Scott publicly and collapse in on myself like a dying star." Jan

[@trinaq]

The absolute best Jan one liner, of all time. It basically sums up Jan's entire personality, in a nutshell!

[@konraddygudaj257]

@@trinaq I think so too.

[@aproxamillionwasps474]

It’s the best line because the latter does happen lol

[@studiostyx7075]

One of my favorite lines from that show.

[@djohn4904]

watching that play out in real life..... it's as scary in real life as the office.

[@aliz.5305]

I remember feeling rage for Jan when Michael would not stop harassing her after their kiss. He continued to push and push and push, tell everyone more happened than what had actually happened. At one point, I felt like he was almost cornering her. During the meeting in NY, the other regional managers were calling her names and dismissing her and Michael defended her and said that she is his girlfriend (which wasn't true) and one of the regional managers uses it to humiliate her to get the subject of him failing to do his assignment changed. And then she kisses him after he defends her to Wallace by saying she has integrity and is professional. I was frustrated with Jan for kissing him but at the same time, I don't fault her. She was deprived of respect.

[@lb-yo8ro]

Yes! I remember feeling and thinking the same

[@BigGiantMonster]

Me too! Michael was the worst.

[@QuirkyShiny]

It was actually quite triggering for anyone who has experienced this type of sexual harassment. Often harassers don't see their behaviour as harassment. I had to turn of the show and take a few deep breaths when I first saw it.

[@Caneladorada]

Michael was toxic as fuck, and these scenes are just done for the lolz, but she is deeply humilliated. She deserved more.

[@walkz007]

@ULGROTHA I wanted to start a binge watch that's not going to happen,I tried HIMYM last week I couldn't even get past the first season,this is the problem with growing up,when I was a kid these shows were fantastic ,what happened🤣🤣

[@hugo59208]

Jan is totally a victim *dinner party happens* She's a monster

[@UCLAdrummer]

@@katherinealvarez9216 She was in therapy. One of the jokes when they found a camera on a tripod in the bedroom was that Jan watched her and Michael have sex and discussed it with her therapist.

[@jessicahartgrove6931]

I guess that makes her the devil 😈

[@hugo59208]

@@jessicahartgrove6931 just a woman with terrible taste for candles

[@beepboop756]

@@jessicahartgrove6931 you shouldn't joke about that

[@iamV10010]

@@UCLAdrummer yeah that psychologist should have their liscence stripped! Advising a patient to indulge their self destructive tendencies is one thing, but encouraging and watching homemade sex tapes to help Michael "improve his form" is downright wrong.

[@pigpjs]

I have seen people like Jan (women and men) who give too much to a corporation that does not value them. If they get laid off like Jan did, they crumble because they put too much of their identity into working for that particular company rather than their career itself. The ones that leave on their own accord end up being more fulfilled because they were able to do the introspective work to realize they need to leave.

[@carlamolina695]

Absolutely

[@the-ironclad]

It’s the same way that makes a person break. When you care about someone too much but they don’t even acknowledge your existent and you keep trying, you lose your shit. Jan is someone that’s misunderstood and victim of the workplace. That is still not an excuse to thrash everyone around you, especially those that are trying to help you.

[@saintpauligirl8269]

Spot on!

[@zoivelazquez9682]

The actress had to do different shows as well so they had to write her off somehow and the best way is to making her look bad, it wasn't there choice, the actress has a job to do.

[@Viny2196]

I was always annoyed by the fact that they turned one of the only few career driven women on the show into a crazy.

[@milegimenz9102]

True :( she was one of my favourite characters

[@squashfei8907]

What about Karen?

[@toughtitties7426]

Exactly

[@SleepIntoTheDiamondLife]

@@squashfei8907 she remained career driven as she should have.

[@cherchehacknostale]

She still succeeded at the end

[@beatrizmaldonadovargas4659]

Next video: 'Bob Vance, Strategies for branding yourself'

[@ecb3828]

OMG YES BOB VANCE VANCE REFRIGERATION

[@cyberhexxcin]

What line of work are you in, Bob?

[@AFishNamedBob]

You have a lot to learn about this town.

[@cyberhexxcin]

@@AFishNamedBob bob vance bought it for me in metropolitan Orland

[@AFishNamedBob]

@@cyberhexxcin smells like it has notes of real pine.

[@karrihart1]

Let's not forget David Wallace gave Jan's former job to Ryan over the way more qualified Karen, further enforcing the corporate sexism. And I would love videos on Phyllis and Stanley.

[@ecb3828]

Omggg you are so right!!!! I didn’t even consider that fact!

[@louis-stephane1391]

@@ecb3828 Ryan had a plan tho. That's why he got the job

[@treemarie213100]

Excellent point.

[@kalamari1611]

I think it was the fact that Ryan went to college that gave it to him

[@darbycheek2475]

Ryan had a masters degree in business....

[@AllenMQuinn]

Melora is such an underrated actress. She should have gotten an Emmy for the Dinner Party episode. Can't believe she wasn't ever nominated.

[@Gemnist98]

She was nominated for Transparent at least.

[@AnnVo]

Agree. Her performance was superb

[@dr.little7311]

Not many people could pull off that weird dance Jan does but she makes it hilarious.

[@Dayneishadavis]

@Catalina C. me tooooooooo! Lls

[@iamV10010]

She's also a great singer. H She has some vids on KZbin.

[@marilima9986]

If you ever worked in a toxic workplace, you get Jan in another level

[@MisBabbles]

Oh yeah...

[@stopbeinginsecure4786]

Yes especially the sexist ones. You become like one of the guys, even if it’s not who you are.

[@marianmoncayo5996]

Totally

[@b.d.j.2818]

I worked in a toxic workplace just last year. I was transferred to a different department due to some restructuring and I was placed on a team where literally everyone was female including the manager. I'm a quiet person that keeps to myself, I exchange pleasantries with people from work but I'm a bit of an introvert and I don't really care to hang out with people outside of work. So these women would meet up at a bar down the street every friday after work but I always politely declined, bars arent' really my thing anyway because I dont drink. Well apparently that made me "difficult to work with" and they started making shit up about me being creepy simply because I was quiet and kept to myself. My previous team was about 70/30 men and women and I never had any problems with anyone. HR didnt' give a shit about what i had to say, if these women said I made them uncomfortable then I had to go. I really liked that job too. Seems to me HR only cares when women come to them with problems. Luckily my new job is mostly guys so I have no issues at all, I still liked the other job better though.

[@georgiaoliviia]

Michael was toxic and childish at times

[@Beep974]

I met Melora Hardin at work once, she bought ice cream from me, she was so kind and tipped well. Queen shit.

[@justingomez9600]

Dairy Queen is not shit maybe overpriced and a little mediocre but definitely not shit

[@nandinibhandari1838]

@@justingomez9600 lmaooo she didnt say it was, 'queen shit' means melora hardin is a queen and the stuff she does is queen like

[@dae-nnylusuhh2039]

@@justingomez9600 r/whoosh

[@justingomez9600]

@@dae-nnylusuhh2039 you think I’m the one who was wooshed here? lol

[@joshuaespinoza2117]

@@justingomez9600 you kinda were but I won't say more :p

[@dddddddddddddddd6368]

Was really sad when she had the seminar with the other women in the scranton branch and they just went and talked shit about her affair with Michael, where's the support?

[@curbowman]

They simply couldn't respect Jan for having an affair with Michael. Usually, a woman "date up", i.e. prefer men with a higher status than hers. Jan did the opposite by dating Michael, someone who was a step down the corporate ladder. As a contrast, the rest of the women dated up: Phyllis married one of the wealthiest business owners in town, Angela was in love with the best salesman of the branch, and Kelly was with a college-educated guy. So, what kind of man can a higher executive woman like Jan date to get some respect from other people? I'd suggest someone from a different professional enviroment: a sportsman, an artist, a journalist, a self-emlpoyed businessman... but let's be honest: Jan needs absolute control of her man, something that's not healthy for anyone involved.

[@iamV10010]

Where's the support from other women? Oh I guess there isn't any because a boyfriend/guy friend/crush/ other women considers that woman conventionally attractive so she is now an enemy to be taken down.

[@shrutikaanand7587]

@@curbowman I don't know if you're being sarcastic or are you seriously giving this advice?

[@shrutikaanand7587]

Unfortunately that's how you become the "cool and unproblematic" woman. By not noticing sexism and putting down other women.

[@studiostyx7075]

I don't know if it was intentional, but I feel like that was what the episode was trying to show, how the women in the office were all pretty basic in their ambitions--marrying, owning a nice house--but that somehow that made them better than Jan...? It was a confusing message, if there was one at all. Jan was definitely punished for doing exactly what men do in the corporate world.

[@Crimson28]

“Why is this so hard? That’s what she said. Oh God, what am I saying?” - Jan Levinson

[@1MegArbo]

Sorry, but HR is there to protect the company; not the employee. The Office was WAY too accurate for me. LOL

[@timothyernst8812]

Was tempted to post this myself. HR does not walk a fine line between being the employee advocate or being the company advocate. It walks a boulevard of being the HR advocate. It inserts itself into everything like cancer, and only causes problems, never solves them.

[@LittleHobbit13]

Seconded. I've literally had to go to HR with things *they* wrote as unacceptible in the workplace and they still sided with the people violating their rules because it was the easier way to address the issue. 100% HR protects the company interests, not the employees.

[@expensivepink7]

100% lol

[@magnificmango336]

A lot of people say The Office would never come out today, because its jokes are too “edgy” and “non-PC.” But the reason why they are humorous and work is because the “joke” isn’t the joke. It’s the person (usually Michael) who tells the rude joke that is the one we laugh at. Michael’s Chris Rock routine isn’t funny. But seeing him so oblivious towards how awful he’s being, much to the ire of everyone around him, is absolutely hilarious.

[@wurdnurd1]

I think the comment about The Office not coming out today refers to the original British version. The American version was positively tame by comparison.

[@binarystar300]

The Chris Rock bit was hilarious, don't care how offensive it is

[@rishabhanand4973]

binarystar300 the original Chris rock bit is hilarious. Michael doing the Chris rock bit is not. (Well maybe a little) Michael doing the bit while completely oblivious to how those around him are reacting is hilarious.

[@MisBabbles]

I just can't get behind the idea that it wouldn't be made today. These people are still in our workforce. I had a supervisor who was Michael, but without the charm. I worked with a Dwight. I worked with a Gabe. Real. People.

[@nellymartinezcorona3539]

I think people who say this are just closeted racists/ misogynist/ jerks/ etc I am very sensitive in some subjects the show plays with, but as someone said before, the mean stuff are not the jokes, the joke is that the person delivering it is a jerk and everyone knows it. So after all this time I still like the show because it always made that very clear

[@lydiafayre9806]

It always frustrated me so much that they basically sacrificed Jan's characterization on the altar of Michael Scott's likability.

[@studiostyx7075]

It's kind of the upside down of the Fridged Woman trope The Take discussed the other week, how a man's character arc often depends on the woman's demise.

[@pablosanchez5294]

The actress had to do different shows as well so they had to write her off somehow and the best way is to making her look bad. Either that or the writers petty asf they did the same to Andy when he had to leave to shoot the hangover 2. They ruined his character development the last season

[@zoivelazquez9682]

The actress had to do different shows as well so they had to write her off somehow and the best way is to making her look bad, it wasn't there choice, the actress has a job to do.

[@lydiafayre9806]

@@zoivelazquez9682 How do you come to the conclusion that the best way was to make her look bad? And follow up, do you think that would have been the best way for Holly too? Like, when they wrote her off for a while, was it okay that they did it in a way that left her likable?

[@nont18411]

Raymond Holt would eat Michael Scott alive. Hell, even an idiot like Jake Peralta would eat Michael alive easily.

[@AveryTalksAboutStuff]

Such an underrated actress. She was fantastic in Monk and Tower of Terror. 😊

[@sumilal5108]

Don't forget threat level midnight

[@pinkattics9708]

And The Bold Type!

[@AveryTalksAboutStuff]

@@sumilal5108 Yes! 😂 Threat Level Midnight was the triumph of all who worked on it. 😉

[@BigGiantMonster]

She was on two episodes of Quantum Leap

[@jemmacurran1715]

She was originally cast as the love interest in Back to the Future, but when Michael J Fox replaced Eric Stoltz, she was let go because she was too tall opposite him.

[@Choshako]

This video gives me the impression that Michael himself was what led to Jan’s downfall, not Dunder Mifflin, though it did contribute to it. Jan seemed really put together until she got mixed in with Michael, like she became a worse person for having dated him.

[@hodorhodor85]

She did! She only dated him after her psychologist pretty much told her to indulge in all her most self-destructive tendencies for a while. Quite tragic, honestly

[@CurseTheCosmos]

That’s definitely what happened. She was depressed after her divorce. Michael saw that as an opportunity and latched onto her like a leech. All that was left was the awful person she turned into after they broke up.

[@iamV10010]

@@hodorhodor85 yeah and can we talk about how her psychologist needs to never work in the field again EVER after encouraging and viewing Jan and Michael's sex tapes to help him improve his form? Good lord that is unethical and gross. Also Jan is a sexual abuser.

[@mattdold6060]

I agree insofar as Michael was the catalyst for Jan's downfall but he was not responsible for it. Michael was a loving and devoted boyfriend to Jan (at least at first). If she collapsed in on herself like a dying star that's because she is psychologically messed up because she resented Michael because she always felt she could do better and was settling and that made her ego fracture into The Queen and The Princess. Michael was just the sweet but lowly guy at the station. They could have been happy together but Jan never really respected Michael which then made her not respect herself for dating him and then she self destructed for having no self respect.

[@bigwilly43729]

Michael was her rebound, but he didn't see it that way. We find out later that he doesn't seem to know what a rebound is. Once her power & authority is compromised at DM, she exerts it on him, who is so desperate for a meaningful relationship that he will just put up with it. Once he gets his support group (the female office workers), he finds the strength to break up with her, until she is able to manipulate him again with the breast implants. Long story short, Jan was destined to fall given everything that had happened in her life.

[@AF-kv4yc]

My fan theory : Jan's terrible psychologist prescribed bad antidepressant, wich did not mix well with her birth control and alcohol consumption resulting in a major mood imbalance.

[@studiostyx7075]

I 100% support that theory.

[@pamelaamyotte9940]

This is happening to me right now. lmao

[@awkwardnerd.]

Sounds stupid

[@bigwilly43729]

She should have went to see Dr. Richard Nygard.

[@zoivelazquez9682]

Yes, that makes sense.

[@collinmiller4721]

We want characters who succeed at being feminist, and there’s certainly a HUGE need for characters like that. But somehow I’m more drawn to the feminist tragedy of characters like Jan or even Betty from MAD MEN. These women are a part of the system that keeps them down, and we see this effect them negatively, even to the point of destroying their relationships. I think tragic characters can sometimes even teach us more about the truth of where we are and what we need to change than characters who succeed in pushing social boundaries.

[@divyasasidharan2960]

For motivation that is good but in reality I have to harden up to be at the top The most that would happen is put an act of being warm n smile like female politicians do more than their male counterparts but will be twice as stone hearted as male counterparts to be able to drive through that alley !! Even if we don’t see failures very evidently of all female solo leaders that’s there in various degree

[@juanacosta47]

I think that, as with any character that represents any historically oppressed population (being women in this particular case), we want them to overcome the power structures that actively makes them struggle, but this positive examples (which work as exceptions to the rule) do not have to mean in any way that the structural issue (whether it be sexism, racism or homophobia) has ceased to exist. I mean, we have real life examples of women overcoming male-dominated, misogynistic workplace environments. Yet, their success has not stopped those workplaces from being misogynistic. Media pieces should reflect that reality.

[@nathy0308]

Or serena joy

[@AngelikDevill128]

Christina Yang. She was my favorite feminist. Never apologized for who she was and became successful.

[@slavemperor9581]

Suffragettes and emancipated women from the end of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th century. Several films were made about them. They achieved what they were fighting for - legal egalitarianism for women, and they disbanded because fight was over. It's just that they were in favor of a complete ban on abortion, so they may not fit the current feminist narrative.

[@dinha10ok]

Michael: doesn't work DM: ok Jan: doesn't work DM: ok, you're fired

[@lking1540]

Jan had more to do, she was management.

[@agpartytime]

@@lking1540 They were both management, Jan was just higher level management. But Michael still managed an office full of people, so it still matters if he doesn’t do his job.

[@lking1540]

@@agpartytime yes, but his employees had their own stuff to do, his job was just making them do it. Jan had branches to get done, that's a big job that has more repo cushions to deal with. Like the difference between a puddle and a pool. One can get away with more, look at jim, he was able to get away with more than michael would.

[@agpartytime]

@@lking1540 Jim was only in charge of himself (except that brief period when he was co-manager). Michael was always in charge of an office full of people. There were multiple instances where everybody had to stay late to get work done that Michael procrastinated and refused to do. His poor work ethic had a direct impact on the whole office. Just because he’s in a “smaller pond” doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be held accountable just like Jan was.

[@lking1540]

@@agpartytime yes, and he got away with a lot more stuff. Yes, but it was just one office, even if he kept doing bad, which he did it still wouldn't have made that big a difference on the bigger scale. Yes, but in the corporate world they usually hold the people at the top accountable first.

[@bisexualichigo4227]

Dinner Party will always be one of the funniest Office episodes for me. How Jan enjoys a song that’s basically about her since she did stuff with the young assistant. 😆

[@cyberhexxcin]

You took me by the hhhaaanndddd

[@yehboi6646]

Maaaade me a man!

[@cyberhexxcin]

@@yehboi6646 that one night!

[@neutrus]

You made everything alriiiiight...

[@cherchehacknostale]

Didnt lile this episode thi

[@mansishukla6779]

As much as I like the office, this fact - that all the women in the office who worked for career growth and were shown to be capable and focused were turned 'crazy' or 'controlling' later on is something that I can't help noticing - its true for both Jan and Karen. Karen seemed like a sensible, grounded character until the merger and then the whole Jim Pam angle ruined the character. It even bothered me that Ryan who was a temp and had never made a sale was preferred over her for Jan's job. Same with Jan and the character's weird relationship with Michael. Characters who are more or less unambitious like Erin or Pam were framed in a positive light. To be clear, both characters achieved tremendous personal growth, but they weren't the sort who took their work that seriously or had any clear ambitions relating to it. It seems they really turned Jan into an unstable, heartless character to make Michael more likeable - when the show started out Jan was doing the best she could to manage all the different branches and her character arc was ruined for a reason I still don't understand.

[@user-uu7fe9wi2k]

I don't think Karen was a villian, she was likable for the whole show exept when she singled out Jim when they destroyed the printer, assuming he was there to see her was a leap and kind of mean, but excusable because of what they did to the printer. And she is redeemed from even this little moment of being antagonized when Pam and Michael come to her branch and she does not resent Pam and is happy without Jim.

[@user-uu7fe9wi2k]

Also Nelly was ambitious and ultimately redeemed from the bad person she was when she came to Scranton.

[@thebignacho]

What about Carol? Or Phyllis? The show is a sitcom and is supposed to exxagerate reality. And women don't usually seek status as much as men. And thats not "sexism" thats just our different brains.

[@kiadimundi3610]

How was Karen ruined exactly? She got pissed of at Michael and Dwight for destroying her printer and at Jim for helping them. Also, wasnt part of Pam's arc about being more ambitious?

[@nont18411]

Also the only one who’s in the wrong in Jim Pam Karen saga is Jim (yet nobody ever blames him). Karen was rightful to be jealous and “controlling” because Jim was her boyfriend and Pam wasn’t wrong to confess her love to Jim (even though she made it awkward by doing it in front of Karen) because that was just her speaking her mind. Jim, on the other hand, couldn’t keep his mind together and treated Karen like trash.

[@xavierperez6845]

What’s really messed up about Jan’s character arc at Dunder mufflin was that she was held accountable for her actions while Michael Scott who had done worse things was never truly accounted for by his actions. Jan was a product of her environment. There are no excuses for her actions but the environment that she was in played a large role in her outcome.

[@Gretaisworking]

Honestly, Michael should've gotten the same treatment. He was just as terrible a person, but somehow it ended with him being lovable and seen as silly, despite him being one of the worst people on the show. What happened to her character was unjust

[@edengallagher1044]

and there were countless times they should've fired Michael

[@riripari2042]

I think we all agree that he should've been fired many times over only for his antics to be excused because his branch does so well and the higher ups thought it was because he was a good boss and leader. He was never even officially fired the one time he was let go was by his own willingness to quit only for him to later on get his job back when he managed to start stealing the company's clients.

[@nekrataali]

I think the Michael never faced consequences for the same reason Meredith was never punished for sleeping with that guy in exchange for monetary benefits: money is enough for Dunder Mifflin to ignore sexism and unethical behavior. Just look at Ryan. He should have never been allowed anywhere near the company after embezzling all that money. But his behavior was overlooked because DM wanted to buy out Michael Scott Paper Company.

[@riripari2042]

@@nekrataali I agree. The company at the time was on its own trying to keep afloat and save money however they could so of course they'd turn a blind eye to what Meredith was doing and rarely ever punished Micheal for his numerous actions. The only time I can recall him getting punished was when he had to go to anger management for spanking his nephew. It doesn't even seem like a real punishment. It was just a punishment to him because his counselor for the whole process was Toby. The guy ran the most successful branch they had and they didn't know how his branch was able to continuously be that successful so naturally they'd be hard pressed to make any large changes.

[@QuirkyShiny]

YES. He didn't earn his happily ever after, it felt so cheap

[@dangermenatwork]

I never realized how terribly Jan was treated until it was all compiled in this video I guess we can say the same about the real world, where most sexism is overlooked just like this

[@SunlightGwyn]

Everyone was treated badly. This is a comedy show. Michael was abused by Jan in a toxic relationship that she controlled but nobody calls that sexism. Jan also made insulting remarks about Pam. Jan is responsible for her own actions, non sexism.

[@frnk708]

@@SunlightGwyn jan is responsible for her own actions but she definitely dealt with sexism at work and the video is saying that it's possible that that contributed to her downfall

[@zoivelazquez9682]

The actress had to do different shows as well so they had to write her off somehow and the best way is to making her look bad, it wasn't there choice, the actress has a job to do.

[@zoivelazquez9682]

@@frnk708 No, just stop.

[@frnk708]

@@zoivelazquez9682 I’m allowed to have my opinion on it.

[@bethania591]

I don't remember the episode or the season, but there's a moment in the show where Michael says something along the lines of "me and Jan have a safeword for when things get too intense in bed, although she seemed to not be able to hear it when I said it". Which means, Jan continued to have sex with Michael even after he told her to stop. That was rape. This, and many other behaviours Jan exhibits - videotaping their sexual encounters so that she can scrutinize Michael later, pushing him to do things he doesn't wanna do in bed, proposing PAYING him hundreds of dollars so that she can sleep with him - were abusive. I know, Michael was also disrespectful to her, but never to the point of being rapey. And I think it's interesing to analyse how sexism played a big part in turning her into who she is. But downplaying her abuse to go with the narractive that she's just a victim is just not cool.

[@ellencoleman4604]

I mean... he was abusive too, and I don't think he deserves a pass just because he was too stupid to realise how abusive he was. I don't condone her actions but at that point the only control she had over anything in her life was a sexual control over Michael (he got back with her after a boob job and clearly stayed with her for the sex and out of guilt despite not liking her as a person). He also had sex with her when she was drunk, talked about her in sexual terms to all his colleagues, stalked her, ignored her pleas to stop, sent a topless picture of her to a friend without her consent which then 'went viral', and had sex with her after she told him she was doing it to be purposefully self-destructive. And the previously mentioned guilt meant he was self aware enough that he knew what he did was wrong, but he never acknowledges or apologises for it.

[@collinmiller4721]

My favorite office character. She’s so layered and nuanced. I love her complexity and the vulnerability that weaves in and out of her dynamic strength.

[@maze2253]

Same!

[@TheMarymarley]

I wish this analysis had dug deeper into Jan's abusive behavior in her relationships. This video seemed to frame her behavior as damaging and toxic but pulled back from directly naming the abuse. I suspect it's written this way because The Take wanted to push back against the tendency to interpret Jan as a monster, but a reading of her as a person who became abusive partially in response to her environment can still name that behavior as abusive. In fact, correctly naming the abuse would help people to recognize how women can also be abusers.

[@alinatahir8326]

Omg totally agree!

[@picklesthewise]

Jan and Michael were a toxic couple, even before "Dinner Party", and it was because of both of them, not one more than the other. Michael got his happy ending after breaking up with Jan, however, and she got shafted, which was essentially the show's way of saying it was her fault. Not something I agreed with at all.

[@QuirkyShiny]

Yeah. The show really rewarded Michael despite minimal character growth.

[@jess9722]

i feel like Jan got a happy ending as well. She’s successful working at a newspaper? print company in what appears to be an executive position and she has her daughter who she always wanted (her wanting kids led to a divorce of her first marriage). she’s still insane and predatory (dominating young guys like Plop) but she got her happy ending

[@picklesthewise]

@@jess9722 That's also true! She didn't find success with the company or love, but success takes many forms and it's all good if she's happy.

[@thebignacho]

Hes our lead, she was a side character. Michael was a fan favorite, I doubt audiences would enjoy seeing Michael die alone in a cardboard box at the end.

[@picklesthewise]

@@thebignacho No, nor would I. But Jan deserved just as much of a happy ending (by show standards, ala everybody else) even if she and Michael weren't good together.

[@manasvisharma4990]

Honestly, I had never thought of this perspective. I really liked her in the beginning. As you said, staying in an environment like that normalizes it, watching the show normalized it for me. Now that I think of it, I can see the spiral and where it started. It's really sad to see men in the comment section defending Michael, who, undeniably got better over time, but was definitely super problematic all the time. Your channel has done it once again. Love your video essays so so much. XOXO

[@thebignacho]

People defend Michael because he is funny. Jan isn't, she's grounded and realistic so when we see she's a weirdo it hits different. It has nothing to do with "sexism" people just don't like her.

[@nont18411]

Michael: feeling lonely and always needs attention because people left him out as a child. Also Michael: always harasses Pam and left her out in many occasions.

[@DemiRonin]

She has a kind of Charlize Theron vibe.

[@user-mb9nm7bq5e]

I said the same thing, my mother in law did not agree. But they look the same 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@KaraLinkonisart]

Just a mention. The point of the money episode though was that it was Michael’s terrible spending habits all along that had caused his own bankruptcy. Jan actually calmed him down and said she’d get through it with him.

[@milegimenz9102]

Yesss. It wasn't her fault

[@melissawellington9924]

I really liked that episode

[@mattdold6060]

I would say it was definitely Jan's fault. Michael didn't have money troubles until Jan started spending his money and when Michael was getting apprehensive about the price Jan said "It will cost what it cost" as in she had no consideration for the financial burden of the purchase because she was placing it on Michael. Michael even says that Jan was treating him like an ATM but I will acknowledge that Michael is also a liar so I'm not saying that him stating that makes it necessarily true.

[@stuffwithsoph8264]

@@mattdold6060 Yes but no, Oscar makes a chart to see what Michaels money is going twoards and it's mostly useless junk Michael bought for himself. Jan was wanting practical stuff like furniture without knowledge of Michaels debt. It's definitely Michaels fault.

[@mattdold6060]

@@stuffwithsoph8264 That's a good point but Michaels spending was never destructive (albeit stupid) before Jan showed up. Jan has very expensive taste, from wanting a Porsche instead of an economical car to considering Chinese food to be her cheap suggestion. I think its unfair to act like Michael isn't at all responsible for his money, he definitely is, but he never had the kind of money troubles that he faced before Jan started pressuring him to spend money he didn't feel comfortable spending. It really is both of their faults so I don't want to make it sound like Jan was the only problem

[@JennaLeigh]

I get that you wanted to really illustrate the effects of a toxic workplace- God knows I've been there. HOWEVER- Jan was very much an abuser, no matter how she became one. Painting her only as "victim" completely undermines the people she abused and the fact that women too can be abusers.

[@razkable]

everyone defending her has forgotten her role in season 9..she basically rapes plop...and won't let him go ...thats next level crazy

[@JennaLeigh]

@@razkable yes! That is SUCH a great point! Because she had the "entanglement"(wink eink) with Hunter, I always thought they wanted to portray her as the "insecure cougar", preying on younger men....but they way they wrote/portrayed it felt more rapey than anything else.🤷

[@sortofanoakyafterbirth3661]

But but but she becaaame that waaay because of toxic maaasculinityyy and the paaatriarchyyyy. 😆

[@creativename1590]

yea she was horrible to michael during their relationship imo.

[@Joe_Parmesan]

Yeah - I think it was mainly a move forced by the writers, rather than the work environment shaping her behavior. It seemed more that they wanted to make Michael more palatable as a romantic interest, though it was also effective at creating a funny (albeit, dysfunctional) dynamic. Steve Carell and Melora Hardin played off each other so well in Dinner Party - one of the most popular episodes of the show.

[@JabariMarshallCreations]

Day two of asking The Take to do a video on Toby Flenderson. I feel like he has an “interesting” history behind his calm and boring demeanor

[@MrIansmitchell]

Like quitting the clergy?

[@JabariMarshallCreations]

@@MrIansmitchell exactly, like when it was too difficult for him to enter the church for CeCe’s christening

[@QuirkyShiny]

I wouldn't watch that Take

[@JabariMarshallCreations]

@@QuirkyShiny why not, you never know what could be described about worth Toby flenderson

[@Gemnist98]

Two words: SCRANTON STRANGLER

[@PDeeVidoes]

I still think parks & rec is much better, but I do appreciate them trying to convey real situations of women in offices. Sad that the misogyny wasn’t really addressed by the end of the show tho. Michael just meets someone who accepts the misogyny

[@sonorasgirl]

Yeah that’s cause you’re not a woman (to the guy above). (To PM) I liked Parks and Rec a lot better too - the ladies were much better developed and quirky while being healthier. And it’s harder to enjoy watching your own harassment post work for fun :/

[@mikerivera373]

Holly doesn’t “accept” his misogyny. In fact, throughout the show, he never acts demeaning in any way in regard to her, and the only “inappropriateness” comes from being overly affectionate (which Holly is actually receptive to). And when Todd Packer starts saying negative things about her, he immediately gets rid of Packer. You also notice during his relationship with her that he gradually begins to act less like Packer and more like Holly, indicating that he found someone who pushes him to be better

[@kohlcooke8789]

im not sure holly has to accept his misogyny. He seems to be better about not being sexist around her. Like he legitimately respects and adores her and wants her to not see him as a misogyny-driven guy. Whereas with jan it seems to be more of a sexual love and not much of anything other than that. I think holly really does change him, at least to some extent

[@mattdold6060]

​@@mikerivera373 Absolutely correct. All of Michael's sexism is derived from his insecurity with women. In fact, deep down Michael loves women. He can just be an idiot about them but Holly makes him feel secure with women and that causes him to behave more genuine.

[@josefinebliss2801]

Agreed even though I cant stand the actress who plays Ann and Karen and she has a bigger role in Parks and Rec but I think it's more entertaining.

[@sappitytap82]

Jan was always a more interesting character for me than Pam. Her character arch was equal parts fascinating and horrifyingly tragic.

[@studiostyx7075]

Pam was a Mary Sue, and I was glad whenever the show pointed out that that wasn't necessarily a good thing. Pam never took chances unless she was super-enthusiastically pushed by Jim and everyone else, and while she was smart and kind she really had nothing else going for her, not even her art which we're constantly reminded isn't that good :-/

[@Kaos.Theory]

i was told I am too sensitive, because I didn't like when the guys used the phrase "we are raping this software" in order to express it's misused. ... so, i really wanna show this my nearly all male colleagues

[@janwouter5215]

Rape is literally the term for it.

[@cyberhexxcin]

I........ Who the fuck uses a term like that? (Well, I can imagine anyone who's tone dead and insensitive) but imagine playing off a real life trauma and backpedaling by saying someone is too sensitive for calling you out on your bs😐

[@Kaos.Theory]

@@cyberhexxcin I am working in IT, this explains I think all

[@janwouter5215]

@@cyberhexxcin I am not saying anything but that it is the correct term

[@Kaos.Theory]

@@janwouter5215 it's not .. and you are perpetuating rape culture by insisting it is. You are making women feel uncomfortable and you are giving other men the idea that it is okay to use this word lightly

[@greciabarraza4986]

“In the past year ive gone through a divorced, identity theft.” See Jim? Identify theft is not a joke.

[@rebeccaxia350]

When I was in college I thought Jan is a crazy boss lady. When I started to work, I began to feel sorry for her. Not everyone can be Karen or Jo Bennett, sometimes certain company/industry just doesn't work for you.

[@wattoucheng]

The whole Jan arc in The Office (from a cold/toxic and succesfull manager to an emotional and unstable wreck after her firing) illustrates (if you take away the clear comedic exaggerations) the struggle and pitfalls that women face in a career-driven enviroment, even in small/medium sized companies like Dunder Mifflin. Although not in the same level, I was the associate attorney for a partner much like Jan: smart, successful and somewhat toxic. Although she was never mean to me (and in fact she treated me nicely), she could sometimes be a mix of Jan/Charles Miner-toxic to her female associates. In the end, after losing some of her clients to another partner (law firms are, imo, the top places for backstabbing and toxic behavior), she had a mini breakdown, decided to quit and sue the law firm (like Jan). I was surprised (and happy) when Jan resurfaced as a top level manager for another company while also being able to care for her daughter. It was a nice sendoff. Also, Melora Hardin did a fantastic job in this role!

[@razkable]

i found the mike jan stuff cute and funny and while holly was done well i never liked how she was basically made to be his soulmate and had to be crushed by a.j. first to accept him and how jan was made out to be wrong for him just so he could have a dream scenario like jim and pam..it felt forced...

[@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254]

This is why I liked Parks and Rec more. Can you study: the Southern Belle, the Ice Queen, the Wallflower, Overprotective Dad, the Overbearing Mother, the Working Mother, the (Un) Happy Housewife/Karen, Disabled Tropes....

[@Platos-Den]

You cant compare the wanna be parks and rec with The Office. Absolutely in different leagues in talent, writing and character depth. I mean common!!

[@anaj835]

We need the Karen video.

[@slospop1125]

let me guess April's the Southern belle

[@djervalevy9784]

Lol Karens aren't happy housewives

[@missj794]

@@djervalevy9784 That's why she put the "(Un)".

[@saragustafson8238]

Okay, but in the context of this video, Jan saying "don't date Holly' is actually the best thing she could have done in that moment. Like, she's kind of strong-armed into having A Public Moment with the guy who more or less ruined her career and the one thing she puts serious effort into is asking him not to ruin the career of another attractive, ambitious woman. Hell yeah, Jan. Hell. Yeah.

[@agpartytime]

Oh my god you’re so right. I never thought of it that way. I always saw that moment as her being jealous of Holly and trying to exercise that last little bit of control she had over Michael, but when you look at it through the context of this video you see that Jan probably sees Holly as an earlier version of herself. She doesn’t want Michael to do to Holly what he did to her. Oh my god that’s crazy.

[@QuirkyShiny]

I never thought of this angle!! THANK YOU for adding this layer to it

[@purplewine7362]

yea because jan was the real victim in that relationship, right? numbskulls

[@kath1017]

Here's the thing. I liked Jan. I don't see how Michael was such a lovable character. I was annoyed by him 90% of the time.

[@mankytoes]

It's a bit worrying, because she's outright abusive in their relationship- she pressures him to do sexual things he isn't happy with, she bankrupts him, she smashes his stuff, cheats on him and treats him like a pet (having him sleep at the end of the bed). Imagine if a man on tv was treating a woman like that, do you think you'd like him?

[@kath1017]

@@mankytoes Michael did this the majority of the time to just about anyone in the office, in some way shape or form. You'd think from being in this type of relationship with Jan would change him or make him a little self aware.... It didn't.

[@kath1017]

@@mankytoes Don't get me wrong he didn't deserve to treated that way. I still like Jan. She's not completely irredeemable, she's complicated like most people.

[@harmoniousdisciple]

Could you do a video examining the tropes of crime films like Casino, The Godfather, etc. and how they glamorize a certain life as well as their use of gender dynamics? And another one on Brokeback Mountain’s analysis of masculinity

[@smiljka99]

Yes please and thank you!

[@toughtitties7426]

Yessss please yes

[@kohlcooke8789]

I kinda disagree that casino or goodfellas "glamorize" the crime, but yeah, they should totally do vids on those!

[@beatrizf9563]

Up

[@QuirkyShiny]

I feel like KZbin might already have one or two videos on these subjects

[@shannonyan8542]

Jan and her craziness was the best part of The Office imo

[@AxxLAfriku]

Don't talk to me! I am famous! Don't dislike my good good GOOD videos! Don't talk to me, dear sha

[@batb1844]

Harsh truth: Jan doesn't represent girl power just like "At the top Ryan" doesn't represent success and boy power. Feminism isn't about allowing women to do the same manipulative acts towards men and women, especially women, but about ending the whole act of taking advantage of other employees (in the corporate, capitalistic world). That being said, she is defiantly a victim to corporate patriarchy and sexual harassing that eventually have killed her aspiration towards big career goals, but that sure doesn't justify her toxic behaviors, which is what I'm highlighting here.

[@harinijayasankar8884]

Have you noticed how 3 female characters - Jan, Karen Fillipeli, Angela were dumped the very instant they got imperfect. But, Michael has been crazy and annoying from the start and nobody cared. Same goes to other male characters - Dwight, Jim, etc. . Angela was criticized when two men fought for her - Andy and Dwight. Even Pam was criticized when Jim and Roy fought for her. . But when Jim dumped Karen over nothing for Pam, he was called a stud.

[@rpb4865]

Nobody cared? They were dumped to you know? Why do you think he was single in his 40s? Angela dated both of them at the same time without telling either?? That's her fault!! If it was a guy it would have been his fault too!!

[@mikerivera373]

Angela was the one who dumped Dwight. And she was beyond “imperfect” when she lost Andy and Dwight. She was having an affair and was incredibly manipulative of both. She 100% deserved criticism for that. Jim didn’t break up with Karen for anything she had done, it was just that Pam was always the better match for him, and he realized he was still in love with her and emotionally ready to be with her again. It sucks to be the Karen in that situation, but she probably shouldn’t have stayed with him after she realized he still had feelings for Pam. Also, no one criticized Pam for how she handled the Roy and Jim situation. Beyond that not being a “fight” (Roy attacked Jim while he was with Karen and was pepper sprayed by Dwight), that entire situation was entirely different from the Angela-Dwight-Andy triangle.

[@Mibbitmaker]

Exactly. Also, Jim wasn't being considered a "stud", just that the fans were happy Jim & Pam were finally a thing. How he split with Karen was actually the second time Jim was shown to be a bad break-up (his cold, random split with the former cheerleader in "Booze Cruise" was the first). And the show didn't let Jim off the hook for it, since Karen had the chance to give Jim his comeuppance when he was caught being with Michael and Dwight when they sabotaged her branch in "Branch Wars".

[@harinijayasankar8884]

@@rpb4865 Well, whether he was single or not, Michael was still loved as a character by the audience, even though he was offensive most of the time.

[@studiostyx7075]

Hi, welcome to how the world treats women vs men. (But seriously, you're absolutely right.)

[@beautyrush2323]

I love how this humanizes her. At her best I looked up to her, at her worst she was my favorite comic relief 😊

[@Gemnist98]

I never interpreted Jan’s actions as the result of a toxic workplace. They were the result of deep-seated emotional problems, where she felt the need to dominate in everything she did. She tried to suppress them in her job and marriage, but my theory is that these very problems are what led to her divorce. And without the tether of marriage keeping her together, these problems were allowed to surface, using the desperate, relatively mild-mannered Michael as a means of exerting her control, and floundering her job (including committing statutory with Hunter) to the point where David Wallace had to fire her. Jan only gets better after Michael severs all connection with her (Threat Level Midnight aside), as then she has no one to control aside from her daughter. To be clear, Dunder Mifflin’s corporate life does appear to have been a haven for toxic elderly men, but Jan never seemed to be directly affected by that.

[@75aces97]

Yes. DM was definitely a dysfunctional workplace, but Jan was part of the dysfunction.

[@QuirkyShiny]

I think there's room in this analysis for both, in fact, I think the video mentions this.

[@hollywoodshopaholic]

Well-said. As someone who is also high-strung and high-maintenance, I think Jan had self-esteem issues to begin with that led to controlling toxic relationships and her downward spiral. She needed to be in an environment that propped them up, but the sexism and unprofessionalism at Dunder-Mifflin only served to expose them. I'm glad her character left the dysfunctional environment behind so she could work through her issues in a more welcoming environment (the hospital seemed like a peaceful workplace, as indicated by her dressing in softer, muted tones over her usual sharp black suits).

[@dorcaswg5726]

It’s the way I’m only in college but I’ve literally trained myself to become numb to misogyny , misogynoir , and racism in multiple workplaces because it’s just the way things are. My goal is to get to a point where I only work because I want to not because I need to. It’s clear that I’m going to have to build my own table and work environment to avoid this kind of mess.

[@QuirkyShiny]

My sister's in tech. She's the only woman in her large team, and has just been promoted to manager (a role she earned years ago, she was actually performing a lot of the management duties for the guy in the role before her, carrying the damn workload) and is really really struggling with her staff resenting being led by a woman. I've seen it in action and it breaks my heart. I've noticed that she has also trained herself to become 'numb' like you describe. To make things worse, we're WOC, so this 'coping persona' of numbing herself to misogyny/misogynoir has been one we've been forced to adapt over our entire lives. It's exhausting. GOOD LUCK TO YOU - seriously, I hope you find success and are able to work 'for yourself'. Kia kaha, wahine

[@mildymorbid]

There's a lot of things I find inaccurate in this. Like saying Michael and Jan both are inappropriate but only Jan gets fired like it's sexism but the show repeatedly points out that Michaels branch out sells the others by far showing that Michael is still being positive for the company but Jan, stops doing her job all together before It and saying it's the men's fault she's like that anyway is taking away her agency and responsibility for her actions and while you backpedal it towards the end you're still suggesting it. Everyone is a victim of their circumstances, they still are responsible for actions.

[@artisticbeautybyhanako6801]

"Deeper self esteem problems can't be solved by dating someone who makes you feel better about yourself" I mean, you're not wrong but ouch🥺

[@zzzzzzz906]

They did my girl Jan wrong! But crazy Jan is hilarious too...

[@RandomSkyeRoses]

While Jan was poorly treated, no one told her to be abusive to Michael, sleep and with a teenager

[@AdamG1983]

Fun fact: 7:41 When Kevin says "MMMMILF", you hear John Krasinski laugh in the background

[@josefk7437]

Jan's career trajectory seems like a foreshadowing of Ryan. Ryan was a millennial tragedy who suffers burnout and goes on a downward spiral after Jan left.

[@razkable]

everyone got weirder and funnier as the seasons went on..its what happens with shows...its had to write stories without some depth..the boring workplace environment worked for about 1.5 seasons ..then they decided lets start going out there more...by the end everyone is being promoted leaving and coming back to the office left an right when they feel like and it stopped feeling like reality and more like a show

[@rabsaque]

I used to believe sexism was all just feminist bs but i remember last company i worked on, i was hired as a senior web dev to make everything better in a team of only women devs, took me just one month to make a huge report of everything that was bad with the company's system and multiple web pages then i was asked to make another report on all the solutions fot those issues, took me a week they approved everything i suggested immediately to this day im not even sure they even read my report, then the leader of the dev team took me to her cubicle took an old report made 6 months ago and asked me to read it, it was everything o told on my report every little thing this girls knew what was wrong all along but never got permission from management to do anything and i withing 2 months of comming to the company got permission to destroy this company if i wanted i really felt sick about it didn't knew what to do tho then quarintine stroke and that company being a tourism company went bankrupt so at least i was able to witness exism in the workplace myself. Later i discovered even more shit like one of the research Project Managers was known for harassing intern women and even tried to abuse one during a Xmas party all company ever did was to warn every woman through HHRR to stay away from that guy and to handle any problem with him out of the company but he never lost his job. So yeah sexism in the workplace is a thing and i found it in a really sad way.

[@lewisfraser4153]

I've always said that Ryan and Jan were chewed up and spat out by the vortex of Michael's insanity. He was more like David Brent than people like to remember.

[@razkable]

david too

[@callalilly4743]

Jan would have thrived anywhere else.

[@hillarymaxson4451]

I know there is less material to work with, but I would also love to see a video on Karen. Jim was terrible to her. He dumped Karen, who was a strongly motivated and successful individual, to date Pam, a woman he felt like he needed to constantly motivate and manipulate. To me it seemed like he wanted to date a woman he needed to "fix" or save instead of dating a woman he saw as his equal. In the last season, I thought that Karen would have been the kind of partner who would have been supportive of him starting his own business. She probably would have made it more successful. Karen also didn't get the job at corporate, even though she seemed like a way better pick than Ryan or Jim, the preferred candidates. At any rate, I love Jan and the dinner party is my favorite episode! I also prefer to rewatch Parks and Rec, as Rashida Jones gets all the love she deserves

[@Luster21]

I think the only reason Ryan got the job at corporate was because he had an MBA in Business, and he had an idea to try improve the sales of the company. Ryan’s promotion is a good example of why employers shouldn’t value degrees over experience and results. As for Jim and Karen’s relationship, to be fair to Jim he was in love with Pam for years. It wouldn’t be easy for anyone to just drop those feelings.

[@QuirkyShiny]

I'd watch one about Karen, and other sidelined characters

[@nont18411]

The reason people barely mad at Jim because the other male characters in Scranton are terrible to Pam. Michael always throws Pam under the bus and sexually harasses her all the time. Dwight was rude to her. Creed, Toby and Kevin loved to sexually harass her. Ryan was being Ryan while Jim, Jim is the “nice guy” to her so what he did to Karen was completely forgivable, according to the entire fanbase of this show.

[@Joe_Parmesan]

I don't believe that 'needing a woman to "fix" ' was the reason why Jim wanted to date Pam. He fell in love with Pam early on, but after being rejected, he did his best to try and move on, even physically moved to a new city and state. When Jim and Karen moved to Scranton, he should have mentioned to Karen that he had a major crush on Pam, but he chose to bury the feelings instead. That's not a crime or anything, but it ended up hurting him and Karen in the long run, especially since that information got to Karen from a third party (Phyllis). In the end, Karen 'lost' Jim, but she made out as a major winner: first, becoming a (successful) branch manager, before becoming a wife and mother. She even conducted herself well upon seeing Jim again (and after Michael and Dwight broke her copier), while she and Pam buried the hatchet, since Karen was truly happy in her life.

[@batgurrl]

Dinner Party was the funniest cringe packed episode. It gets more extreme with every moment❤️

[@janwouter5215]

Victim of her therapist

[@ayeilak5]

Great video can do the sassy sexy Hispanic men and women stereotype in movies and show please. It Hispanic heritage month thank you 😊 🙏 ☺

[@genevieveowusu885]

Hoorah! They should! I feel like the media and history books "other" Latinos, Asians, and Native Americans, so much so that it's normalized..

[@ecb3828]

OMG YESSS

[@ecb3828]

@@genevieveowusu885 totally. 👏

[@genevieveowusu885]

@@ecb3828 Yeah, it's really dumb.

[@PrincessLioness]

Who’s your profile picture?

[@rishaa682]

it is pretty amazing that Jan got fired but micheal never did

[@ThePiedraGomez]

The whole character and a lot of the show are just misoginy. I don't think the "lady boss" ending as a calculating crazy asshole was intended as a "cautionary tale" but rather as a sexist caricature imo

[@thebignacho]

Yeah just like how Ryan became a drug user and got fired for corporate fraud, and ended up in a bowling alley. Yeah the show is definitely just "mean" to wamen☹

[@ThePiedraGomez]

@@thebignacho not what I said and not the point, buddy

[@thebignacho]

@@ThePiedraGomez No I think it is buddy. Its not "sexist" to have her be crazy.

[@ThePiedraGomez]

​@@thebignacho No, it is not. I'm not saying the show is only "mean" to wamen. And I don't think the fact that Ryan end up like he does is relevant to the topic at hand, which is the specific portrayal of one of the characters, turning her into what I think is (probably inadvertently) a sexist caricature. Which is what I said in the original comment. If you disagree fine, i don't care. But your comment was: not what I said and not the point. Buddy.

[@thebignacho]

@@ThePiedraGomez I think Kevin is sexit caricature as the fat, unattractive guy. My point is everyone in the show is a caricature so why are you complaining that the women are too?

[@inflorire]

I hated what they did to Jan. She was cool and they just turned her into a the cartoon her sexist colleagues painted her as. It ruined the show.

[@lincolnretzlaff6644]

it did not ruin the show

[@user-uu7fe9wi2k]

I don't think it was colleagues plural, it was mostly Michael.

[@zoivelazquez9682]

The actress had to do different shows as well so they had to write her off somehow and the best way is to making her look bad, it wasn't there choice, the actress has a job to do.

[@jadziawynter9241]

Can u do the witch trope with the characters from The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, especially Prudence

[@slospop1125]

Jan deserved better

[@thefollowingisatest4579]

A lot of good points, but unfortunately I don't think the show actually felt the same way. Once they reveal how sexually abusive Jan is, including such things as the example you showed and violating safe words and then shaming the person who used them, I find it hard to care as much about her situation. Also, when she had the power to help the women under Michael Scott, something that desperately needed to happen, she didn't really give a shit unless it affected her and corporate directly. She may have had it harder than her peers, but she is still part of management. She also engages in union busting.

[@studiostyx7075]

I agree except she did try to help the women by actively looking for promising corporate prospectives at the Scranton Branch, only to be called a whore by Angela and informed by Pam that she just wanted marriage and a nice house. The women at the Scranton branch, with maybe the exception of Karen, didn't have a lot going for them so Jan gave up. In the meantime, Jan was constantly on Michael's case about his lowkey sexual harrassment of the women; she just wasn't at the Scranton branch 24/7 to monitor a grown man who should know better.

[@thefollowingisatest4579]

@@studiostyx7075 I would argue that firing Michael would have solved at least one problem. Also, helping women only when it is beneficial to the corporation (as in recruiting them deeper into the corporate structure) does nothing to solve the problem. A lot of the stuff she talks about is also deeply out of touch, which while that might be a spot on interpretation of corporate "empowerment" seminars, doesn't endear her to me.

[@reythejediladyviajakku6078]

Double standard is a common thing with women and it’s frustrating. No lady wants to be held to a double standard nor should they have to be

[@dkowalski10]

Thanks for addressing the sexism in this show. It is a great show but I feel like no one stands up to it

[@thebignacho]

Maybe bc its a comedy and snowflakes shouldn't watch it if they take everything seriously☹

[@danielled8779]

I think it was just bad writing LOL. Jan’s character shift was so random and unnecessary.

[@studiostyx7075]

Exactly. I feel like the writers wanted to keep her on the show but didn't know what to do with her, so they just pulled an Andy Bernard.

[@alyssapinon9670]

@@studiostyx7075 I was so sad about both of their character declines 😞

[@waynerembert3116]

Except, she was always unpleasant.

[@AlexandraBaggins]

You should make a video on Parks and Rec!

[@Reva-mz8yl]

Schitt’s creek too!

[@Chrysyyyy]

OMG, I wish y’all would have left the part where they flashed Angela’s outfit after Pam said “no one dresses like that” 😂😂😂😂

[@josefk7437]

Being a cautionary tale makes her a lot like Ryan. So does being hard to sympathize with, being a bad employee, being a product of her environment, being unpleasant to be around, and becoming as toxic as the environment she is a victim of.

[@samedz3966]

THAT ONE NIIIIIIGHT! (one night) YOU MADE EVERYTHIIIIIIIIING ALL RIIIIIIIIIIGHT

[@celaestisamory1834]

14:03 "Michael's relationship with Holly after he lets go of Jan suggests that the best predictor of a lasting connection is having important things in common; a shared sense of humor, comparable values, or simple warmth and appreciation for one another offer a much more productive basis for love than loneliness, frustration, or proximity." Da-oka-DAMN, did you HAVE to speak so LOUDLY?! 😭 I am hand lettering this shit and framing it 😭😭

[@Blargshark1231]

Wow, super interesting analysis. I had never considered that her toxic behavior was driven by embedded sexism in the workplace, but it seems totally obvious after watching this video. Really nice work

[@thebignacho]

No I think its bc she had an affair with a 17 year old assistant, maybe that's why

[@jordachejordan90]

I never knew the show portrayed workplace gender roles so accurately. Now I see why 'Office Ladies' said certain scenes get shown during workplace training.

[@jeanbutinfrench]

I would really enjoy a video on Holy, and the effect she had on Michael, most portrayal of women having a effect on a man usually shows the woman as a bitch and manipulative (see jan) but holy was a good influence on Michael while not being a pushover

[@QuirkyShiny]

Yeah, it was real nice of the show to gift Michael a beautiful, eternally patient woman to fix him. Really proves that all crappy men need is the love of a good woman dropped in their laps. Amazing how she was able to get him to do a complete 180 on his past behaviour in just a few episodes.

[@srami004]

With this analysis, I see that Michael is more of a man child. Feel bad for Jan.

[@rishaa682]

you seriously didnt see him as a manchild watching this show? what is wrong with people

[@iceyshmicey1214]

@@rishaa682 sure but i think it’s more like, michael is framed as a lovable goof while jan is framed as a crazy bitch if u know what i mean?

[@srami004]

@@rishaa682 Never watched the show. Don’t insult until you have the facts. Take that as a lesson. I subscribed to this channel because I admire most of the content.

[@rishaa682]

@@srami004 my bad

[@rishaa682]

@@iceyshmicey1214 hes a lovable racist sexist goof that constantly crosses people's boundaries? okay

[@CamJames]

She was actually one of the directors/writers too. One of the reasons I love this show. Ryan, Jan, the worst characters were big parts of production.

[@Darm0k]

Melora Hardin was not a writer or director on The Office. Mindy Kaling(Kelly) was a writer and directed 2 episodes.

[@jlrob85]

“AT LEAST HE’S AN ARTIST”

[@user-nt8bo1kj6q]

OMG,Thank you!Finally. Jan has been butchered throughout the whole series by everyone. She rurvived it all and did the best she could. She's my hero.

[@brandonkloesel7108]

The money thing might be a little unfair. It was both Micheal and Jan making bad financial decisions.

[@BigGiantMonster]

Wait so her toxic work environment is to blame for her downfall and a supportive environment is crucial for a strong woman to succeed in business? Is nothing her fault?

[@BigGiantMonster]

Not to nitpick but she had her flaws. She was manipulative with Michael and she was extremely self-involved. The fact that she slept with Michael was her biggest mistake. She contributed to her own downfall by at least half.

[@QuirkyShiny]

I think the video is pretty clear on the fact that nothing excuses her behaviour, it's just a good, deep look at her character. It's like those videos about the complexity of the Joker or Walt from Breaking Bad for example. Just a more in-depth look which explains a bit more about what forms a villain.

[@BigGiantMonster]

@@QuirkyShiny You can think whatever you want. I'm quoting directly from the video

[@juliakay6204]

We all know HR is a necessary department at work but hating HR was something I could relate to when watching the Office. No one likes being policed at work and HR tends to attract people who like power and policing. They tend to set themselves up for or are perceived as being the enemy.

[@corrupt_insomniac]

Jan Leeeevensoooon in the mornin’ baabyy

[@castform45]

I never thought of it this way. Thanks for posting this!

[@TS-yy6jb]

I work in the automotive industry and women in senior positions are spoken about behind their backs exactly like the video described , female empowerment sadly still exists in text books

[@robchuk4136]

I always loved when Jan popped by in the early seasons. Her facial reactions to Michael Scott are probably the 2nd best after Jim's.

[@studiostyx7075]

Yeah, I almost wish they had kept her as that kind of character who occasionally, as Michael put it, "comes down from Mt. Olympus" to check in on the Scranton Branch. I know that wouldn't have provided Melora Hardin with a lot of character development, but they could have figured out a way to reveal more of her backstory and personality without tying her to Michael.

[@ashishgangshettiwar5615]

Jan's narcissism cannot be blamed solely on external factors. If dealing with Michael and work pressure were the reasons then everyone in Dunder Mifflin would be a narcissist. Jan had unique issue to face but so did most people (Karen, Andy, Dwight). I had some sympathy for Jan in the first few seasons but there is no excuse for her toxicity in the end. Ultimately, she aint a victim she has mostly has herself to blame. I just hate people trying to defend narcissists.

[@louis-stephane1391]

She is a women. And we are on a feminist channel. You do the maths

[@rishaa682]

they addressed all of this in the video, i guess you just commented without watching the video 😂😂

[@rishaa682]

@@louis-stephane1391 again, another person who comments without watching the video 😂

[@louis-stephane1391]

@@rishaa682 i kinda did. But one : the title, two : my comment was actually on the content of the channel in general

[@ashishgangshettiwar5615]

@@rishaa682 I watched the video and i know they spoke about it but the title is very misleading. It gives rise to the overall sentiment which is mostly defending her actions and blame shifting

[@mirandadarling1745]

This is truly excellent and needed commentary

[@vincentbuscarello1357]

A crossover with Leslie Knope slowly drawing the inner child out of Jan (maybe she became a sweetums exec or something?) would be too wonderful and wholeseome for this world.

[@amyclarke6176]

i always got the sense that the exaggerations were false on the part of the documentary crew as they found their favorites michael jim pam etc they made the obstacles to their happiness out to be more villainous than they were - even when they were bad they showed them in the worse light possible. i saw this as the reason for the flanderization of other characters - the crew didn't like ryan so when he started acting destructively the documentary went out of the way to show only the bad actions of his. obviously the writers changed how they wrote characters and to try and get more storylines they turned to exaggerations but in universe these massive personality shifts could be explained by the documentary crews bias presenting itself in what they showed, when they stoped filming people post scraton, how they edit, what questions they ask in talking heads etc in the documentary. after all almost all documentaries are bias irl so no doubt the offices in universe documentary would be bias- they already show clear favoritism the jim and pam as they're some of the only people the crew interact with, additionally by the final season the crew admit they are only there for the personal relationships of the office so no doubt they'd film/edit in ways to highlight these relationships for better or worse.

[@isabelleoh-criner6697]

In the last episode Meredith says she was getting her PhD and it was never mentioned in the documentary 🤔

[@amyclarke6176]

Isabelle Oh-Criner that’s what I mean by leaving things like that out (till the last episode after the doc aired) the doc crew could make the staff seem more one note as people so the people that do get multiple amounts of personality shown seem better in comparison Think how all reality tv is fake but not as extreme

[@mollspice7]

tan almost everywhere. jan almost everywhere.

[@conversacionesconmipadre]

What a great actress and an incredible character. I adored Jan from the beginning to the end and found her character compelling. Of course, only a great actress could have played her and her many, many layers of complexity and humanity. She is what millions of women suffer in the workplace.

[@amyc.6115]

I'm so glad you all profiled Jan's character. I actually came to this channel not to long ago hoping you had.