the unusual state of kep1er

[@ButIamAStick]

I think the difference with ioi is that, ioi was short lived, so they following trends made sense, creating an identity for them wasn't necessary. Now, Kep1er has a 2 year contract, that is they will have many comebacks, and with that the lack of identity is counter productive

[@randomkid4783]

IOI is also just iconic in the way that they created the landscape for survival show groups to follow… so I think their legacy isn’t that of their music but of their impact

[@guinnmyahslaysstaymad]

@@randomkid4783 the fact that they weren’t rigged and fitted so well in a group also was iconic.I surely think that in gp999 people would have picked a group that would fit well togheter if we think about the first rankings but it was short lived when the 1 pick votings started and some people just sky rocketed while others left the rankings.Also cai bing was mnets biggest victim

[@randomkid4783]

@@guinnmyahslaysstaymad I never watched gp999 so idk much of these peoples names. But I do know that IOI was slightly rigged, but not as much as XI or IzOne

[@ButIamAStick]

@@randomkid4783 Yeah, thats the impact, being the first, so they didn't have the need to difference themselves from other groups like Kep1er

[@sabrinaleedance]

I don't get how IZONE their last temp survival girl group had such a solid and cohesive concept and they just kinda went amiss w Kep1er bc it makes me sad that I loved them at first and now I have lost interest. Hoping for better from them in the next year and a half hopefully ❤️

[@arijeanz]

i find it a little ironic that ive and lessera (along with a few other groups ofc) have gotten so big and have changed gg kpop so fast that they're actually somewhat leaving kepler behind. imagine if weki meki had gotten big enough to hinder izone's success.... idk i just find it funny.

[@lunarialoonatic]

Ugh stoppp I’m still salty about Weki Meki’s lack of popularity and being overlooked in the k pop industry. They deserve so much more.

[@avi3354]

@@lunarialoonatic i've been here when weki meki debuted. Everyone was anticipating their debut, but the debut song was shit. They could have done really well if they put more effort into their debut.

[@lilcherry]

@@lunarialoonatic they had it all ngl but their agency sabotaged them

[@safz15]

Their music is high quality & cant be compared to kepler

[@yaelrodriguez1701]

IVE is 00's pop inspired, Le SSERAFIM is simply pop (instrumental is lighter), nmixx is the different and unique type and NewJeans is western pop and too teen style. The mistake in my opinion, is the market. Kep1er is supposed for k market, j market, c market, western market, 3rd Gen Market (CLC former member) 4th Gen Market... Their public are so different with each other

[@girlwithluv-multifandom]

I appreciate you not just calling them “flops”, and having a nuanced take on the context surrounding the girl group landscape in 2022. Even as I Kep1ian, I can tell their debut was rushed and they didn’t take the time to work out their sound and concept. Which would have been fine if they were a permanent group, because they have time to evolve. But temporary groups should have a clear plan from day 1, since they only have so much time to catch the gp’s attention.

[@lunarialoonatic]

Not a kep1ian but I could tell too. And it’s like the company knew their mistakes after and tried another attempt with Queendom (which was just awful! They did good and all, but it’s obvious they were exhausted and clearly weren’t mentally ready to do another survival show- especially after their debut and promotions)

[@thewayifelt]

ahaha, this is because kep1er aren't flops at all. they may find it difficult to stand out because of how crowded the girl group scene is right now, but that doesn't mean they don't perform in big arena's in japan or that they barely sell albums. as i said, the bar has been raised so high in 4th gen lately with all the newcomers, but that doesn't mean that kep1er are failure's when if we remove their competition, their sales are still very good.

[@bellaiswijianto9807]

In my opinion, what makes ppl turning their head towards another group is bcs their cb especially song didn't meet fans standart. For me, wadada is a mistake, ofc it's catchy song, but fans expected so much more. Especially when the competitor (ive) had totally great debut, it's a hit. So ppl are disappointed, when UP appeared some of them are disappointed bcs they thought kep1er didn't suit the concept and the song is too childish. In my opinion, UP is better than wadada. I think at this point, a good promotion is located at the debut song and concept, also the consistency of the song and concept every comeback. If you have a good and catchy song, it'll attract so many fans, especially this group is already popular and gaining fans toward the survival show. Also, anyway kep1er aren't flop, they're doing so great in streaming and physical album, it's just that there are so many competitor shadowing them. But in fact they're doing so great so far

[@RG-wo6ms]

They don’t have a direction for the group..So they’re kind of trying all sounds and concepts to see what works for them

[@NelleBear]

@@bellaiswijianto9807 Yeah, and it doesn't help that Kep1ians (particularly a certain solo fandom) are literally dragging them down from within. What outside fan wants to invest in a group that their own fans call flops and trend disband constantly. Its such a negative fandom now (esp on Twitter) its hard to be a part of.

[@woodzanti3766]

kep1er is struggling because concepts matter more than before in the current state of the kpop industry, and thats something they don’t have in. it feels like snsd with how they didn’t have a fixed concept. kep1er would have probably hit big in 2014 or something but people do not want groups who are inconsistent and constantly changing anymore. they want someone who can balance both experimenting with genres while maintaining a consistent musical/artistic direction, something that kep1er failed to achieve because of wakeone’s lack of care for them

[@thewayifelt]

this is something i hadn't considered and is so true! back then you could literally just have no clear identity and do whatever and still be successful but now if you do that you might loose interest...

[@he2295]

Oh absolutely as someone following since IOI

[@girlsgenerationlittlemixbl7781]

SNSD'S case is so different with that of Kepler for sure. SNSD does different concepts but the songs are really good and iconic. Plus they have many strong vocalists, stunning visuals and the dance line is also remarkable making SNSD thrive even when they change concepts every cb. Those things I mentioned are what Kepler lacks.

[@havensohn3821]

Looking at gidle its not that kpop doesn't want changing concepts, its that they want something fresh but listenable. Kep1er does something that we've seen before.

[@yeonjunniee9419]

​@@thewayifelt

[@Deina7]

They definitely suits more of the MVSK or Up concept and style more than we fresh or teen crush. I also find that some songs are kinda generic, thinking producers are rushing songs not making a really outstanding and different sound. But I will still like them hopefully next comeback rises to the occasion.

[@thewayifelt]

i agree that screen time should not be distributed by popularity overall, but in the case of bahiyyih i found it a little ridiculous that she was one of the most talked about contestants every week during girls planet 999 and mnet would barely show her.

[@beatrix8308]

Even Mvsk, shine or the see the light suit them more than their title tracks

[@wanhanisah7718]

@@beatrix8308 oh Shine is such a great song!

[@QueenIrene4382]

@@beatrix8308 the way fans were BEGGING for a full version of see the light. They need an upbeat concept with strong dance. This teen crush, hard hitting does fit them but i don’t think it fits them enough. Whereas the members really shine (pun intended) with the other songs/ concepts.

[@toujours405]

Yesss. Mvsk should've shaped their sound and image.

[@swtvic]

i remember EVERYONE predicted they were gonna have a concept similar to a combination of iz*one and wjsn, elegant, girly and feminine, but a bit darker, sultrier and more powerful. it made perfect sense since they constantly pushed them to have a space concept. i don't get why they didn't implement that. mvsk is literally a perfect representation of what they should've been. a bit classy, a bit girl crush. most members would've fit it better too, unlike their girl crush concept which only like 4 members fit.

[@Jjangbunbun]

cuz Mvsk was a leftover izone song but yea they need more of this concept the members and fans also loved it

[@swtvic]

@@Jjangbunbun it sounds nothing like anything iz*one's ever put out💀

[@p.hhenry4454]

@@swtvic mvsk sounds similar to sequence

[@kidro8717]

mvsk is literally perfect for them, i loved it so much more than wadada

[@n4ttyyy]

If kep1er went with an elegant concept I wouldnt be a fan of them. MVSK is a good song but its too boring to be a concept. kepler is fine, theyre just not the #1 group in kpop and neither was izone

[@linzzzanity]

When we were all excited for Yujin to be in a group that was promoted well and already had a fan base, little did we know this is what would happen.

[@goldyd144]

Yujin is objectively doing much better, both popularity and financial-wise, in Kep1er vs CLC. Kep1er doesn't have Korean charts, and their success feels stagnant, but that's about it. It's disappointing that Yujin didn't debut in a record-breaking group like Newjeans, I've, or Izone, but that doesn't mean that she's not successful with Kep1er. She very much is.

[@ssua3035]

kepler's fandom never left the survival show mentality behind and are still looking at the girls as competitors, not members. the amount of solo stans is wild.

[@aangisbestboi3984]

solo stan’s are completely justified

[@claire4577]

@@aangisbestboi3984 except most kep1er solo stans are akgaes

[@aangisbestboi3984]

@@claire4577 i mean ok? hiyyihlights be minding our business until yall provoke us

[@mylovechoerry2233]

​@@aangisbestboi3984 bahi has truly the worst fandom.

[@aangisbestboi3984]

@@mylovechoerry2233 lmfao keep lying to yourself bud

[@marinaratherobot]

you’re absolutely right on everything about this video. kepler lacks a clear objective and concept, and it is clear w1 does not care about giving them that. they’re being so overworked yet still dont have proper promotions since wadada, no clear sound identity, a lot of fighting within the fandom... i wanna think theres still time for things to pick up and be better, but a lot depends on how the group is managed. thank you for this video❤

[@zipzapkpop]

There will never be another group like IZ*ONE. That media blackout for several months when the scandal broke out and then coming back stronger than ever, breaking records and pioneering the rise of girl group sales, really united the fandom like never before. Any other group wouldn't have been able to survive that, to this day even as a fan it still astounds me. Even the fundraising project after the disbandment was insane. I never saw anything like that in my more than a decade of listening to KPop. Imo the driving force behind IZ*ONE is their fandom and while infighting exists it was minimal and they are very protective of the group as a whole esp when the attacks come from outside. But with Kep1er i feel like more than their mismanagement, their downfall will be (or is) their fandom.

[@muhammadaymanhirmi3058]

Iz*one wiz*one forever🤗

[@Juno1992]

One of the main differences between izone and kep1er is the internal war between their respective fandoms. To some extent, wizones were more united into protecting izone’s name and legacy while with keplians, it feels like they are just praying for the group to disband already.

[@mmmk6793]

no fr they really remind me of gg in the way they just blew up after the scandal

[@muhammadaymanhirmi3058]

@@mmmk6793 girls generation?

[@A2kisses]

​@@muhammadaymanhirmi3058 yeah i'm assuming they're talking abt the jessica leaving scandal

[@SiriuzGrey]

I thought Kep1er was too big to fail. That though it wouldn't be as big as iz*one, it would still be considered a success. But Ive, Le Sserafim and New Jeans changed all that. The bar is now 500k physicals and thats just insane. Girl groups are topping chartz and getting PAKs like crazy. PAKs used to be rare. Now we have 3 songs by two girl groups getting PAKs in the same year. To be fair, Ive and Le Sserafim are not strictly rookies since half their members are Iz*one but this achievement is still crazy.

[@elithluxe7568]

Yeah these three groups really changed the bar for gg. It makes bg even harder to actually get sales and wins as gg are on top now. Netizens have been saying that unless it's a BTS comeback, they don't see any song charting as well or winning on music shows with how 4th gen gg have been dominating

[@ssua3035]

some kepler members also redebuted

[@theYouTuberfr]

@@ssua3035 huh

[@ssua3035]

@@theKZbinrfr yujin and yeseo were in groups before kepler so not strictly rookies either

[@theYouTuberfr]

@@ssua3035 you’re right i forgot my bad

[@merefinl6914]

It sounds hurtful, but Kep1er really doesn't have a concept that suits all of its members. I watched all of GP999 obsessively, and tried so hard to like their debut. Ultimately it fell flat because of how different the members are. What concept fits Hikaru, Xiaoting, and Yeseo equally? I really can't think of how you present these 9 girls together without blatantly obscuring any of them. And MNet clearly didn't either based on how little screen time some of them got. People were super divided over IZ*ONE's lineup after it was announced. They hated Wonyoung as the center and hated that members like Hyewon, Minju, and Chaewon were added over their favs. Not to mention how few Japanese members made it in. But I feel like their debut and comebacks proved to people that the right members had made it in, and that they all fit together after all. Kep1er hasn't won me over that way yet, and I don't know if they can to be honest.

[@guinnmyahslaysstaymad]

So you are telling me that both eunbi and wonyoung fit more into a group than yeseo and hikaru?In my humble opinion the rigging was wrong on so many ways and concept or not if you want to rigg a group then don’t make public votings at all.I.o.I was also made by the public but they all fitted togheter very well.I think that in this season the producers just weren’t as lucky as in the beginning and didn’t had the right mind of which girls they would push to get into the top.So many girls who were great were left behind after the 1st elimination due to the cell systems.

[@marinaratherobot]

idk, most of the girls showed a diversity in concepts in gp999, i think theyre all chameleons in that aspect. sound wise, vocal wise, thats a bit different bc yeah, their voices suit some genres more than others and whoever is choosing the title tracks for kepler doesnt consider all the members equally

[@merefinl6914]

@@guinnmyahslaysstaymad I mean, to be honest, Wonyoung and Eunbi continue to have a similar style even now that they aren't working together, so yes I think they fit more into a group than Yeseo and Hikaru. I.O.I was confirmed to be rigged as well, so I'm not sure where your information is coming from.

[@merefinl6914]

@@marinaratherobot The irony is that I did like most of the members while they were on the show, and I can see why they all made it in. The problem it seems like fans are having is that all of them being talented and versatile isn't the same as all of them belonging in the same group together.

[@guinnmyahslaysstaymad]

@@merefinl6914 produce 101 season 1 had rigging but it was minor and the top 11 wasn't affected by it only two random girls in the first elimination were rigged in and out .This was already confirmed a long time ago when they confirmed the rigging in the seasons but oh well i shouldn't expect people to actually inform themselves since its not really something kpop stans do but yeah.Both hikaru and yeseo are on the cuter side (their height)so they complement each other well idk about xiaoting but nako and for example chaeyeon had completely different styles and it still worked.Would be boring anyways if everyone was the same(btw im not a kep1er stan)

[@lavistelle6031]

You are the first one to speak the truth about Bahiyyih. Had Mnet given her a little more screentime to show her hard work and improvements she wouldn't be so hated now. Instead Mnet didn't want her to debut, they didn't even show her at all during the last episode hoping viewers would forget about her during live voting. I think the main problem is management and marketing. This group has the potential to be HUGE and many members went viral. Bahiyyih is super famous, even in the Top15 of most searched 4th gen female idols for 2022, yet she is given nothing to do. Hikaru went viral with her Purr performance during Queendom. Xiaoting went viral after winning the ballroom competition against other idols. Chaehyun is MC of The Show. Many members had their moments and Wake One couldn't utilize them at all to create hype. They even treated them poorly on Queendom wth. Not to mention they make them comeback in October when there is basically half of K-pop doing comebacks instead of waiting for November when there will be less groups. They couldn't possibly stand out against Gidle, Stray Kids, Mamamoo, Dreamcatcher, Le Sserafim and groups like Blackpink, New Jeans and Ive who are still going strong in October. It was suicidal and because of that We Fresh made zero noise. Their concept is a mess. The music is nice enough, but it's dated. Look at the girl groups who debuted during the last two years. Aespa, StayC, Ive, Le Sserafim, NMIXX, Billlie, New Jeans, not to mention other 4th gen girl groups like Gidle and Itzy, they all have peculiar concepts and bring something new, even if it's risky and it's not always liked by the public. For example NMIXX concept doesn't do well in Korea, but they have a massive following internationally. Kep1er is just copying others and taking the most unoriginal stuff. I'm sad because I stan them and I do enjoy most of their songs, but they can't survive against the competition. They will continue to sell lots of albums, but I don't think their digitals will improve if they can't choose a winning strategy.

[@ttc958]

If feel like she definitely needs more training and if she wasn't related to kai she wouldn't have made the final line up. I see her going solo after more training like somi

[@lavistelle6031]

@@ttc958 Everyone in Kep1er made it because they had some push or connection, except for Youngeun. Yujin was in CLC, so both the fans of her group and people who felt bad for their fate voted for her. Mashiro trained with Itzy, so Midzy voted for her (she was the second most voted internationally after Bahiyyih). Chaehyun trained with aespa, so Mys voted for her (it's no a coincidence she was the most voted in Korea). Dayeon got pushed by Mnet like crazy on top of the attention she already got for being the K-centre. Xiaoting and Hikaru got MASSIVE screentime and attention for being J and C centres and everyone was voting for them because they were the only foreign trainees that everyone knew. Yeseo too got a lot of screentime and good editing from Mnet and she was the centre for at least 2 songs, maybe even 3, I don't really remember. The only one who made it because of her talent and without Mnet's help or a powerful company backing her up was Youngeun, so I think it's unfair to only see Bahiyyih as the one who wouldn't have made it without help, because that's not the case. She didn't even receive any positive attention from Mnet during the show. For how trained she was, your opinion is valid. Obviously she could have trained better with more time, but I have seen trainees debut with worse skills, so I don't find it too bad. She doesn't stand out badly in the group, and that's the most important part. Survival shows are like this: you debut because you are given lot of screentime, or because you are already known, or because you come from a big company. It's a popularity contest, not a talent show. The point is to make a group with the most popular trainees, not the most talented. Until people don't realize this, they will continue to get disappointed while watching survival shows because they will expect the most talented to make it when it's not the case.

[@arijeanz]

as much as i think that the rigging in previous seasons was absolutely unfair (baekho being rigged out of wannaone), and how using trainees for drama even if they knew they were debuting them (chaeyeon in p48) was very inhumane, ultimately it's what made the show interesting. their control of the plotline made the show much more dramatic. and even the rigging contributed to the success of the groups imho. it's not a secret that chaewon was likely rigged into izone, but it's difficult to imagine the group without her now. she had the talent but not the popularity, and if the show had been "genuine" she would've probably been left to obscurity

[@sur_un_nuage]

i am more sure about which members were rigged out of wanna one than rigged in because there was a lot going on back then even before the rigging was confirmed later but i feel the same i cannot imagine wanna one without any of the members wanna one already had 2 main vocals it didn’t need a third and idk if baekho was rigged out in favor of sungwoon or some other member so like while it’s unfair it kind of wouldn’t have been the right mix if it were up to viewers alone the group needed to be balanced with vocalists, rappers and dancers

[@kimzmin]

saying that chaewon has no popularity during pd48 makes it look like you know nothing at all. she doesnt have that much drama, and yeah not popular internationally but if you really followed pd48, shes one of korea's favorites. her fancams always tops on naver and even top higher than eunbi who is really famous on pd48. her visuals and talent is something koreans love. and mind you, mnet always prioritizes korean votes. tbh its just the intl fans who think that chaewon in the group is so random when shes always have been making noise in korea

[@Hili313]

I think they should let the producers of the show have more influence. Like let it be like I -land for Enhypen was (not saying it’s perfect) but the public had influence but so did the producers. So you ended with a group that producers made sure they are satisfied with but still let public have some say in it.

[@teumetin9249]

i disagree with the part that chaewon was most likely "rigged into" iz*one. i know you weren't being disrespectful, but i just don't think it's true. i mean as most people already know, chaewon barely had any screentime in the show (which is also the reason why most people think she was rigged in). but i think that's precisely the proof to see as to why she wasn't rigged in... think about it, since she didn't have any screentime (despite her obvious talent and charm), it's clear she wasn't the show's and the producers' favorite. which means that they most likely can't be bothered to rig her in. if you say, woolim was the reason why she was rigged in, i think that's even more unlikely. eunbi was already a guaranteed member of iz*one as one of the most popular in the show, which meant that woolim already had a trainee as part of the final line-up... they really had no need for another especially considering they were already planning to debut rocket punch after pd48, a group chaewon could easily fit in had she not been part of iz*one. that's just my two cents tho... feel free to disagree also 😅

[@brennathecatlover4360]

I think jr was the one rigged out

[@kzajac2544]

In terms of timing, it feels like Iz*one fans aren't over iz*one yet either. IF this group was created to fill the void for fans who miss their favorite survival show group, they aren't missing them. They've just moved to follow all of those girls into their next step projects. They still have 12 artists (loosely) to care about, and now the members of those 12 artists. They're at caring capacity.

[@omurice6510]

I also think nmixx suffers the same by having an identity crisis, concepts and songs that just don’t appeal to the public. I’m honestly tired of the loud, teen crush sound, and having Ive and New Jeans is just so refreshing

[@radioactivevolt]

NMIXX case is weird cause despite the songs not gaining much success, everyday they get praised for their skills, more people start to stan them, they see the members interacting with their favs and the songs go somewhat viral inside the k-pop circle, people are starting to recognize NMIXX and I think that with a gp friendly song they can break big easily

[@coffeetoffee6589]

@@radioactivevolt We have the same opinion. NMIXX had lot of haters due to being labeled as the "failed new gg of JYP" or even called as a group with only noise music yet managed to gather a lot of new fans due to how talented the members are. This is my unpopular opinion but they might be the most talented girl group to ever debut in the 4th generation, JYP entertainment just need to wake up and create good songs that can actually make people love their music just from listening the first time. The girls deserve their first win.

[@noriawawa9073]

But NMIXX new song Dice charted better than kepler.Dice even enter top 50 on melon chart,and kpublic praised them for being so talented with their dance and live singing

[@veenaynay6578]

When I think of Nmixx I get sooooooooo upset because I HEAVILY anticipated them. I’m more of a Hybe fan, but they were a rookie debut I was very tuned in for. And it feels like JYP is literally squandering their incredible skills with nonsense music. I’m glad they have some fans who like them, but after watching Lily’s cover of survivor, I got sooooo excited thinking we were getting a gg that would give us old school rnb energy.

[@manuelrangeldiaz7515]

The difference is that people still have hope for NMIXX, his comeback had more attention than his debut, Kep1er has 3 comebacks each less successful than the previous one

[@OGseoulite]

Honestly the problem with Kelper isn’t the group itself. It’s the fact that MNET rushed to push another girl group survival show immediately in the midst of IZONE disbanding. If they waited for the wave of girl groups that were coming in like they have with other produce groups, they could’ve had more time to map out the show formula properly as well as create a proper group identity for the lineup they wanted. But as you said, they wanted their cake and to eat it too…

[@Non_ducor_duco]

Produce groups never had original concepts,they just had a good song to accompany a trendy concept of the time they debuted. Even the Izone elegant concept came up after Gfriend's and Apink's comebacks had made waves that year. And let's not get started on how undistinguishable X1 's debut concept was from 2019 bg debuts. The issue of Kep1er is that they don't have a 2022 trendy concept neither do they have any above average song to accompany whatever concept they are doing. The space thing is underutilized and it's a shame. A y2k sci-fi concept could have been their easy ticket to originality. But it's obvious CJ ENM doesn't care. Kep1er is just here to clean the dirt they left behind so other future groups can have a smooth career.

[@dxydream9967]

lol no, izone had a perfectly designed concept even before the debut, in bloomiz era one of the producers said that it took almost a year to produce their title tracks (Violeta and Fiesta) and you see, the “floral” concept wasn’t a thing in kpop before izone, so mnet just didn’t make a concept for kep1er

[@thewayifelt]

oooo i never though about that but it's true! it's not about kep1er starting something unique and new because as a temporary group they don't really need a concept with longevity. it could be that kep1er had to choose a trendy concept that wasn't played out yet, and sadly teen crush and space concepts kinda aren't something that brand new at the moment considering many girl groups have done it before them, so it doesn't help them stand out, especially as a temporary group...

[@zipzapkpop]

Idk about other produce groups bc I never really followed them, but IZ*ONE's concept being elegant is an oversimplification. With GFriend and Apink, like most of 2nd or 3rd gen groups, it's just another concept or trend that they try. But for IZ*ONE, releases were clearly mapped out from the * IZ series and the ONE * series (i stand by my belief that there was supposed to be another ONE * album, but they didn't push through w/ it so that they can release one full Japanese album). Other than concepts of elegance, flowers, and film, they also have the overarching narrative of destiny, fate, and dreams. One more thing is that they have their own identity esp w/ the title tracks from the get go (similar to Twice, you'd know it's their song). With Kep1er, CJ were probably going to do sth w/ the space concept at first, but then since they didn't care for some of the members that got in the group they just gave up since they'll still make money anyway. And the way they promote comebacks are honestly lacking! The girls deserve better.

[@arhamislami1910]

Lol no, iz*one own their concept too is floral at first trilogy with dance trade mark, they own their sound, they also versatile with every genre but still had the identity of feminine

[@adlihadyan7647]

@@zipzapkpop i agree with you. And about the ONE* series, i have same opinion with you, they suppose to have 3 ONE* album series. But because of the scandal (they're hiatus for long time) so there is no time to make ONE* last comeback

[@char5297]

babe wake up new felt video

[@sur_un_nuage]

kep1er is being discussed a lot lately and it’s breaking my heart and worrying me sure kep1er is fine for now in terms of like sales and fandom but i’m worried for their future in terms of group impact and individual futures

[@ndj9576]

None of the big companies Will recruit them like sakura and chaewon. Because they don't have the same impact like izone

[@sur_un_nuage]

what about bahiyyih?? she’s quite popular, i feel like any company would be lucky to have her she has a lot of fans (i suppose) idk if she’ll stay under ist

[@searchingforelris]

Really great video! I think you mentioned the most important thing at the end - Kep1er is not "flopping". They've sold over 700.000 albums this year & racked up hundreds of millions of video views. The standards have been raised enormously due to the explosion in worldwide popularity. Selling 100.000 albums used to be what selling 1 million is now. Also, one more thing: Survival shows were not the instant way to success in the past, it was MNET's survival shows that were like this. There were a handful of other survival shows creating groups like UNI.T and CLASS:Y that do not seem to enjoy the benefits of these programs as much as KEP1ER or previous Produce-groups did. Once again, thank you for the video - we really love your content! :)

[@xrrgr]

truth, there are several groups i didn’t even know were formed through survival shows or I keep forgetting. Even the big groups formed through survival shows that weren’t MNET but are successful are because they were from big companies such as JYP‘s twice and stray kids. MNET really ruined their own legacy by rigging out members that the public specifically wanted.

[@valeriamedina94]

As a fan of survival shows that weren't actually rigged (produce JAPAN is right there), yes, that's what happens when the company don't actually know who the winners are going to be. Both groups of pdjp are mildly successful and their fanbase is mostly people who watch the show, you really can't create a concept and plan beforehand if you don't know the winning contestants. Keptier just seems like the natural resolution of a normal survical show

[@giadabravi98]

I thont really follow thwm but from the little thata i saw the memebr of both groups seem to suit the concept pretty well, witch is not realy the case for Kep1er. Also I thought Both groups where doing good in terms of sales, INI even better than JO1. Also Jo1 recently had their 1 arena tour in Fukuoka and seemed full

[@savage_0217]

I dunno if we watched the same gp999 but from the start mnet already giving us a clear message who they wanted in the end by giving them some unnessessary screentime which many of us knew who's mnet's new poster girls. The only time they are not prepared is how Yurina didn't make it in the end when they thought everything is planned out according to them.

[@BeamingTaeng]

@@savage_0217 GP999 was playing faves because they couldn't rig the rankings. But it was their way to lead us to vote for who they wanted to debut, not to foreshadow who they had already picked. They obviously liked Yurina and disliked Hiyyih. Also, they angel-edited the shit out of Bora but she didn't make it into the final top 9. OP is right when saying they didn't know who was gonna make it. They wished for a certain outcome, but since they couldn't pick and choose, they couldn't curate a perfect debut that suited the members (like they probs did with all the P101 groups).

[@xrrgr]

@@BeamingTaeng Eh, they did this with every season of produce and it always worked. It also makes me scratch my head at why they rigged out the members of WannaOne and Izone when they were members that they gave a good amount of screen time too, like what did they expect? I think girls planet 999 is the only time this didn’t work. But they also always make concepts before the group has even been formed anyway.

[@teeo1067]

For that last sentence, I reckon relates almost majorly with ioi

[@Zarzar22]

Proof that companies choose better idol combinations than fans, and take into consideration a lot more than just what people think they want and instead know how to create a cohesive image

[@sablepuff]

thank you for this x( lately I've been feeling so bad for kep1er. they deserve a well thought-out concept and sound. they deserve so much better honestly

[@crstph]

“i feel like its an unpopular opinion within the kep1er fanbase to actually like kep1er” this is an excellent way to phrase it!! i well and truly do like all the members and songs of kep1er but while i have issues with their management, most kepi fanspaces ive seen talk mostly about what they don’t like instead of what we do. the happiest kep1ians are probably the ones who never try to actually interact with other fans online lol

[@Corie3269]

yes, that's me lol. I do leave comments on their MVs and stuff but that's it. Doing great.😄Glad to read from another kep1er fan who actually likes the whole group and their songs though.😊

[@2xcrzkxk]

They should have gone with the mysterious concept they had for MVSK. It really suited a lot of the members but was perhaps too mature for what they were going for. This is the problem with not rigging like you said. They have to put out songs that suit different members but not all & it looks incoherent & messy as a group, which makes it hard for the public to understand & latch on as a whole. If they had split the finalists into two groups I think one could have been energetic teen crush & the other ethereal, mysterious & sexy & it would have worked out more coherently. You all know which members work best in each concept.

[@jayus3978]

Idk why anyone takes this group seriously. I knew they would be a joke when the first elimination round was “ hey guys if you didn’t get screen time in the first two episodes then your cell is gonna get elimated 😢” so many talented trainers gone because mnet wanted to remove as many girls as possible. And then the judges never giving constructive criticism and just saying “oh her expressions are good 😮” it’s so obvious they wanted to manipulate the viewers and that’s why the fandom is divided like it is. So much of the fandom is still brainwashed and convinced this group will be successful. lol

[@angel-jp6wf]

i mean they are successful??? they just became million sellers a few days ago, not that it means much, but kep1er is definitely one of the more successful 4th gen groups out rn. even if they're at the lower end of it, they’re very successful with what they've accomplished so far

[@kpoppy9635]

@@angel-jp6wf yeah people put them down so much but they still have accomplished a lot for a rookie group. It's unfortunate that their predecessor was Izone (who could compete with Twice, a 3rd gen monster.)

[@giadabravi98]

The mentor comments where obviously cut by Mmet, Tiffany even said she was giving construcive comments but in the show was almost non existent. Like in some episodes i even forgot she was part of the judges

[@jayus3978]

@@giadabravi98 yes i know they were edited out. What i meant was that it was heavily influenced by editors and the shows demands. Because if they showed trainees who they didn’t want in the lineup getting praised and trainees they wanted getting bad criticism it would skew the votes too much. it’s why a lot of japanese trainees had no screen time, c trainees were evil edited , and popular members like Bahiyyih were edited out of the show. like when they had the final 18 girls she was the only one who wasn’t shown her audition tape and message from her family. that’s when i knew this group wasn’t gonna be sh*t 😂

[@anastasiagraham2418]

@@angel-jp6wf idk man selling a million is nothing these days. Both rookie and senior groups are selling millions left and right

[@sagwareul]

with iz*one, it was extremely common to see wiz*ones who did not watch produce and didn't care for it. produce was iz*one's child. meanwhile, kep1er is gp999's child. they struggle to bring in new fans with their music and concept and their stans are mostly pre debut. i hope the best for them note : i really really like your channel! stopped watching kpop ytb because of the lack of creativity / meaningful discussions in like 2020 but you bring something new to the table every time

[@chelleange1s]

if i was in charge of kep1er, i would’ve trained them for a good three months which would allow them to know each other + new content. i think i would’ve debuted them in may, even tho that’s a bit of a long time but. i also think i would give them a quirky concept that evolves into something darker & more elegant (kinda like what fromis has done if that makes sense)

[@eustolia]

the thing is with survival show groups it’s important to debut them as fast as possible or else fans will lose interest. kep1er were set to debut in december of 2021 which was just like 2 months since they were formed which makes sense why wa da da felt like such a rushed song for their debut. i think they should have intended their debut for january, as it ended up being, so they could have found a great song. waiting to debut them till may would be pretty bad considering they’re a temporary group and don’t have much time together. that’s like 7 months and most groups don’t even wait that long for comebacks

[@lungulavinia]

I'm very relieved that more ktubers are talking about Kep1er's problems and mistakes that wake1 made. Also happy 1 year since Kep1er was formed and happy 1 million sellers for Kep1er :)

[@itswhateverforme9385]

In my opinion Kepler’s music is really ‘outdated’ their music is just your typical ‘loud girl crush’ music and a lot of groups that have been successful this year such as new jeans and Ive, their music isn’t as loud as your typical 4th gen gg music. I think that is what changed. Edit: I also noticed that groups like Aespa, Kepler and Nmixx aren’t doing as good in the charts this year because the gp doesn’t seem to care about experimental music anymore. But they are still good in album sales, at the end of the day that’s what matter the most.

[@pr3ttyhijabi]

This! Feel like they would have been more popular in 2017

[@camiilagomez15]

Aespa isn’t doing well in charts? They’ve gotten an all kill 😭😭

[@eita7353]

i agree with you but aespa is doing pretty well.

[@bemyhope5059]

Idk what are you talking about because aespa got a PAK and peaked at 3 on bb200 this year lol and just got they are now a million seller

[@Emeraldnicki]

THISSSS

[@residentevil4life]

You say that Kep1er fans unlike IZ*ONE fans are constantly fighting since none of the members were rigged into the group but to be fair when they first announced the lineup for IZ*ONE I remember a lot of eyebrows being raised with Jo Yuri ranking so high and participants like Kaeun not making it and from start to finish there was disappointment over the way the J line members were treated especially Nako who was given very few lines despite standing out for her vocals. In general tho while there were small rumbles here and there the fandom remained fairly polite even at the worst moments during the Produce scandal.

[@gui9217]

thats true, but wizones were slowly becoming more and mote united after the first comeback and that's not happening with kepler's fandom. even though they're in their second comeback the fandom still have the same energy in fighting since the debut

[@thewayifelt]

i'm sure there was aftermath as all survival show's are messy, whether they are rigged or not. but i think once it was revealed that produce was rigged, the atmosphere of girls planet 999's and kep1er's fanbase has been so torn and intense because of it. i mean iz*one stans may have fought a few times about the show and the group, but kep1er's stans trend for their own fave group to disband. usually after the debut, people accept the line-up and move on, but still to this day i see kep1er's stans wanting bahiyyih to leave or dayeon. like alot of what happened on girls planet 999 hasn't been put to rest, meanwhile iz*one's fandom fights where never on this level.

[@TheOrangeAce19]

Wiz*one's united for good during the hiatus and that actually helped so much with how IZ*ONE's legacy is maintained. The rigged apologists got stronger as the day progresses, that's why people love IZ*ONE for what it is. It also helped that IZ*ONE basically treated 2020 as their bitch.

[@Lulexiaa]

Yeah but all that fighting was definitely over by their 1st comeback. Kep1er fans are STILL fighting to this day and its been a year since they were formed.

[@TheOrangeAce19]

@@Lulexiaa it also helped that everyone in IZ*ONE had a very specific niche to fill in the lineup (whether be it in promotions, advertisements, or daily life). Kep1er has this vibe that just makes it difficult to root for them. It also does not help that they do not have an identity

[@sabrinaleedance]

In my opinion the best Kep1er song so far is their first bside MVSK 😅

[@sabrinaleedance]

Unless they change the format 180 I don't think Mnet is going to have a successful survival show anymore but what I'd like to see in Kpop is the return of companies hosting survival shows for their next groups. Nowadays every group is very very selectively curated by entertainment companies, unlike JYPs shows Sixteen and Stray Kids Survival Show , tho they weren't so popular I feel like if maybe it was someone besides JYP and hosted solely online, it would be pretty interesting. (one of Hybes labels perhaps!)

[@umlikewhocares]

I think iland 2 (hybe new girl group) will happen soon…probably next year

[@kpoppy9635]

@@umlikewhocares yes I'm so hyped for I-land 2!

[@charliewright468]

I think the other great thing about companies running survival shows is that if trainees don’t make the lineup, you can at least rest easy knowing that they’ll still be a trainee in that company. HYBE Japan just had a survival show for their new boy group (which I also think was rigged but I digress).

[@bill_396]

@@charliewright468 Glad to see somebody else discuss the new HYBE Japan boy group, which I agree was very obviously rigged. I still cannot comprehend the purpose of having public voting if it was going to weigh so little in comparison to producer evaluations. HYBE is very bold for letting this information (basically a blatant admission of rigging) remain accessible to public via the andaudition website.

[@hellobye7697]

U predicted Hybe’s R U Next

[@ShelbySerendipity]

i think one of the big issues with kep1er is one that both wakeone and the fanbase share- its that the girl group that they envisioned in gp 999 does not exist. there is no global group with equal members from korea, japan and china. there is no teen crush, hardcore group. certain popular trainees did not make the lineup. the kep1er that came out of the final votings is obviously not what mnet had in mind or they wouldn't have posted the interim voting tallies before the finale- basically begging fans to save certain trainees. wakeone would be much better served taking a look at the members who they do have and building a concept around all of the girls that suits their individual and collective talents. even if the lineup isnt what they initially envisioned- thats over now. if they didn't want bahiyyih or yeseo or mashiro it doesn't matter anymore. they have those girls- they should use them for the betterment of the group as a whole. especially because those girls made it into the group out of voting- so we know they have people who are interested in them and/or liked them enough to vote them into the group. their popularity is an advantage to the group as a whole. i just think that if this group is to move forward- it is only going to be if wakeone gets their heads out of the sand and into reality. Kep1er is a group with many popular and talented individuals and they need to showcase that rather than still continuing the gp 999 narrative of pushing some and neglecting others. this is their group. these are their members. they need to embrace that rather than promoting kep1er as the group they envisioned before gp 999 ended and the lineup was set.

[@ri6037]

i also find it so odd that bahiyyih has no lines or anything in kep1er. i don’t stan them or keep up w them but i thought they would give her more as she’s one of the most well known members of the group. it’s just so odd to me why wakeone doesn’t give her anything more than a few seconds of adlibs or something

[@mellow_doodle3998]

Well if you watch girls planet 999 mnet and CJEM doesn't really like her or fond of her to be honest maybe she takes over the spot of other trainees which they want to debut so they not really care about her and want to give her exposure no matter how much popular she is and second her voice kinda don't fit kep1er title track to be honest in some slow beside she have line that's it.

[@merefinl6914]

I think they just don't believe that she's marketable in Korea. She has a mostly international audience, and I think that proves to MNet and WakeOne that she isn't worth investing in long-term. I think they probably rejected her company's requests to push her during GP999, and have no obligation to push her now. Other members' companies probably did make a deal with MNet, and so they get more of a push in the group. That's a theory at least.

[@goldyd144]

@@merefinl6914 Bahiyyih had no company to back her until a few days before the finale. Mnet couldn't reject an offer to push her because she never had one. That's why the nepotism claims for her never made any sense to me. She gained popularity from Kai's name, but she maintained it afterwards on her own or with her own appeal (despite what antis might tell you). Mnet likely didn't want to deal with someone with minimal training who only has name recognition to really give her an edge. They mostly used her last name and face in advertisement for views, but paid her dust in regards to screentime during the show or the work she did behind the scenes during the competition. Chaehyun was in a similar situation, but had at least the previous experience of being a famous SM trainee and being the most popular Korean contestant on the show, so she had more appeal although Mnet clearly wanted Bora to be in Kep1er.

[@wonderlucky1912]

Hi! I noticed that Bahiyyih along with other Kep1er members receive more vocal lines in their b-sides and covers compare to their title tracks. •The only Kep1er title track that I can think of that Bahiyyih had some vocal lines was in Up!, she ranked 8th place in line distribution. •Bahiyyih had the 2nd most lines in their Japanese debut b-side Daisy, 3rd in b-side Good Night, 7th in Girls can’t turn me down, 7th in Dreams. Please let know if I missed any songs when she had more vocal lines than ad-libs. Thank you. ***Many of the Kep1er members deserve better line distribution especially within their title track songs.

[@anti_fragile]

As a VERY casual listener of the group I honestly forget she is part of the group when I hear the songs. Going off of her performances from the show I can understand giving her less lines- she isn't god awful but it's clear she's not very trained- but to this extent seems a bit much. She gets a lot of screentime in the M/Vs and I have heard her voice in a couple of bsides which leads me to believe the company is trying to pander to her audience more but like... in a way that won't get them dragged online more than they already are

[@inubrother3524]

I watched GP999 to relieve my broken heart after my most loved ult iz*one d-worded (I was there since the release of Nekkoya), but the way a new fanwar erupts in the fanbase made ult-ing Kep1er quite hard. Kep1er was indeed my ult since debut but after the release of Up! i never really gave much attention to them anymore. I still loved We Fresh and Troubleshooter but my hype for them back in First Impact isn’t there anymore. I do miss iz*one and i have accepted that no gg will ever fill the hole iz*one left in my heart. I still love post iz*one groups tho but having 12 members in separate acts is difficult to manage

[@mikellyartisan1384]

Sadly, it’s obvious who WakeOne favors in Kep1er when you compare their current screen time to who was favored in GP999. What has also caused a divide is that this favoritism didn’t change when they became a group. Bahiyyih and Xiaoting were given little screen time despite being incredibly popular internationally and still have little lines in their current songs. Tbh, I didn’t even know who Xiaoting was until the debut lineup but she’s definitely top 2 rn. Meanwhile, Dayeon was GP999’s main character (especially during the Ice Cream episode) and she usually has the most lines/screen time now. Despite that, she placed in the middle in voting and I would say she’s moderately popular, definitely not as popular as Bahiyyih, Xiaoting, Hikaru, or Chaehyun, despite all the attention Mnet/WakeOne has pushed for her to have. This has caused a lot of resentment with fans because it’s extremely obvious who is favored by the company. It’s not very equal or fair. Yes, they have a concept issue (I am not a fan of We Fresh, but I liked Wa Da Da and Up), but more so they have an incredibly biased management issue. They love to bait us with having Bahiyyih in the trailers and YT cover, then she has like 10 seconds of lines/screen time in the actual MV. If they keep this up, I feel sorry for some of the girls because I would bet that half of them will go on to be reasonably successful after Kep1er disbands and the other half will fade into obscurity when they re-debut.

[@ChenCrystal99]

The fact that some "Kep1ians" are on the Dayeon and Bahiyyih hate train annoys me and it concerns me as a Kep1ian who supports OT9 no matter what I stand by them since they were formed a year ago. At first, I wanted some of my GP999 faves to make it but in the end I accepted the lineup just the way it is.

[@Keropiskpop]

I just realized that there are not many soft/ballad concept in GGs anymore

[@Yukheyy]

Tbh some didn’t get in that not only would’ve fit better but also are more trained/talented, some felt so rushed to be put into a group , not to mention that some probs only got in cuz of them being known …

[@sr_echo]

You already mentioned it in kep1er's falling behind, but it still blows my mind how unfortunate their debut's timing was. The shadow of the last produce group was stretching over them as izone members redebuted (looked it up, ive literally a month before kep1er and yena's solo two weeks later!) and they had to find a space to fit in with the rest of peak 4th gen ggs. No wonder kep1er is seemingly struggling to keep their head above the water. I can't completely write them off yet though. Kep1er still has plenty of time to hit the mark, and it's just a matter of when...

[@anetasz7759]

Not to mmention that wake1 doesn't even promotes the members individually. I wasn't a fan of iz*one but I watched some reality shows where the members were appearing so I naturally knew about them, but with Kep1er? No solo activities, no fashion weeks (even in Korea) where nowadays a lot female idols attend and gain popularity (e.g NewJeans Hyein attended Diesel show), no solo dance/cover videos on their youtube chanel (dance vids on tiktok at best, and now Bahi did a cover and posted it on fancafe - WHY NOT ON A OFFICIAL YT CHANNEL?), again no reality shows... it's so annoying. The girls are gonna disband and I can see only couple of them holding their popularity that they have now and I HOPE I'm wrong...

[@space-age-bachelorman]

keeping bahiyyih's stage name as huening bahiyyih and not just bahiyyih or hiyyih (which she said she prefers) feels so icky to me, there's no reason to keep the huening except for her relation to huening kai, which i hate bc the focus on who her brother is really takes away from her talent, its clear they're keeping her as a name (i found it most obvious in debut) because she barely had lines and they're really not harnessing her talent as they are the other members. every other problem i have with kep1er has to do with wake one ent. or mnet, mnet and wake one clearly didnt think through the fact that they actually had to debut a group and their debut felt super rushed, and their comebacks also seem very close together compared to other groups. i also remember seeing online kep1er perform in sydney at hallyukpopfest and they had to bring their own luggage through and had less security that TO1, a boy group under wake one who are way less known, had more security and had staff to take their luggage. which really shows wake one's priorities and where they want to promote

[@xx_thisisnothappening_xx3421]

She doesn’t have talent it’s why they let her in. They needed to make foreigners look bad so they added in Bahiyyih because she doesn’t fit and isn’t at the same level at all of the other girls

[@space-age-bachelorman]

@@xx_thisisnothappening_xx3421 if you genuinely think bahiyyih isnt talented then thats insane, she keeps up with all the girls well and itd would be easier to see how talented she is if wake one actually gave her lines

[@xx_thisisnothappening_xx3421]

@@space-age-bachelorman she doesn’t that’s why they don’t give her lines lol. In GP999 no one really wanted her because she didn’t keep up. She was consistently at the very far lower ends of the skill spectrum compared to so many other girls. She was 100% rigged in solely to make foreigners look bad

[@webuiltthepyramids3446]

​@@space-age-bachelorman 'she keeps up with the other members well.' just means that she is less talented than the others and that it's harder for her to meet the expectations

[@vesavius]

Without the connection to her brother she wouldn't even be in the group so it def makes sense to keep the name.

[@vemarqui]

found this video under a tweet and i think this is a well thought out and nuanced take on kep1er! i personally think kep1er has a distinct genre + style of choreography in their title tracks, but visually (concepts) i don't see how they stand out from other 4th gen ggs these days. if they weren't a group from a survival show, i doubt they would warrant this much attention on the first place. and as someone w/ 0 spoons to keep up with them, thanks for opening my eyes on certain things from idol survival shows!

[@julijulijulijuli]

suscribed!, some people are saying that Kim Dayeon is the reason why kep1er is flopping... mainly because wake one is doing concepts to suit her. Also, some argue this is the cause of Chaehyun's and Bahiyyih's neglect in the group in terms of lines, because it seems that Dayeon is the center, main rapper, main dancer, main vocal etc. Personally I don't think Dayeon has any fault in this, and I don't hate her at all, but it was evident that the reality show was rigged in her favour, especially when they made several trainees to go to Dayeon's home and made them write emotional letters to her while she was working with her group at a potato farm and sang some trot to the aunties there (considering she was the only Korean member in Snake Team). Also, don't forget her feud with Cai Bing, which was staged by mnet... The Kpop landscape has changed a lot in 4 years, groups can't go anywhere without an unique concept or good songs, and kep1er... kind of lacks both. Also, in terms of popularity in Korea, We Fresh only has 2k hearts on melon... its literally the level of nugu groups. And the messy feud between fans doesn't help at all, Bahiyyih is the face of the group, some people only know this group because of her, call this nepotism I don't care, that's a fact. I really hope W1 can solve this issue, but a divided fandom is not good news for any group

[@abc-vl6pr]

yeah it was so annoying like dayeon is a victim of mnet using her for a dramatic story as well of her being an underdog in the beginning of gp999 with her demo stage not being put in top 9 and the mentors saying they knew she was gonna rise ranks so thats why (which is ???? if they thought she was gonna be top9 anyways why didnt they just let her EARN IT) and then how she kept getting praised for ice cream performance but didnt win … im guessing they wanted to make a loveable “idol” for koreans to grab their attention which worked i suppose bc she got carried up into the group by korean votes and shes the 2nd most popular in korea… but their staging of dayeons story backfired with international fans because now she gets bullied so much for something that isnt her fault and shes literally so young still too..

[@zee6671]

actually, the thing that you say “strategy to push her” during gp999 was not beneficial for her, according to sources, it was done not to bring her up but to bring her down to add more korean trainees to the final line up. Mnet is not stupid, as well as wakeone, to like choose a single membet as the inspiration/main focus of an entire group, Especially that because of what theyve done, she has been getting so much hate. You may not hate dayeon but I know that you somewhat dislike her for putting all the blame in her. Come on, she’s not just the only girl crush in kep1er and also not the trainee who gets the most lines as well, people just notice that she has more lines because they hate her even if other members really have more lines. This is their concept because this is what their company is choosing. Guve the members a break and stop blaming them. I also think that it’s the fandoms fault why theyre kinda low

[@Kpop-c5o]

@@zee6671 The push in GP999 made her to Kep1er. Her votes in international is low, that can't make her debut. She needed alot of Korean votes. The push gained hates from international fans but also gained votes from Korean fans. Without it she wouldn't have debuted. They even wanted her to be the centre because she is Korean. They thought she had more chance than Chaehyun. The push episode is the same episode for Cai Bing's evil edit. Everything was planned. Cai bing is the sacrificial lamb for her spot. Anyway not her fault but Wakeone and Mnet. She should redebut under Wakeone so all the sacrifices of Kep1er will be worth it.

[@labelly6271]

@@zee6671 just curious about what the sources are? I see so many fans say "sources" but all I've been able to find are more theories by fans

[@miyelleSEJI]

One thing that bothers me (and I will preface this with the fact I am a WIZ*ONE), is the statement that the IZ*ONE members were all chosen for the group before the show began. This is inaccurate and a flat out lie. In the legal proceedings for the rigging case for Produce, Mnet stated that they had chosen the lineup the night before the finale. So while IZ*ONE ultimately was rigged, I want to point out that Mnet most likely had 15-20 girls they were interested in, and decided based on what they’d seen of them throughout the show/who was gaining popularity. For example, Nako was given nothing the first 2 episodes, and only became highlighted after her performance in the group battle at the end of episode 3. Kaeun on the other hand was CONSISTENTLY given screentime from the beginning of the show and confirmed to be rigged out of the group at the end. My best guess with this is that they were interested in her for the group but then saw she didn’t really match the image of some of the other popular girls, and thus removed her. It’s a pet peeve of mine, but we need to stop perpetuating this myth that IZ*ONE was fully rigged from the start and none of the show actually mattered because if you actually followed the show at the time, you would see why that’s not the case. Thanks for reading my TED talk :P

[@pr3ttyhijabi]

Ur right they were also looking at the korean public opinions. Cause i remember knetz started saying during the final episodes. That kaeun was to mature/old looking next to most of the girls on the show. And if leader type should be in the group that there first pick was eunbi. Lowkey feel like that's why they rigged her out cause of looks and that they already had a leader type in the lineup.

[@giadabravi98]

the only things that Nako had at the begining was umping from F rank to A and then nothing until the group battle.

[@Forget_menot]

Rigging happened because rigged girls company give bribes to producers of show, those girls aren't epitome of talents has their fans claiming.

[@jayninemushroom1740]

I was looking for this comment, cause i was confuse with the video part talking about izone members being rigged as a whole when that's not the case since most of the articles reported that the line up was rigged on the finals

[@thylionheart]

I didn’t watch GP99 even though I knew it was going on, so I’ve gone in mostly blind and just taken their new songs and MVs at face value. And honestly? I really enjoy their songs, title tracks and b-sides alike. I think they could be tighter with their overall concept but I can’t deny that I’ve enjoyed each concept they’ve played with. I also think each member is a good performer and stands out when they’re on stage, though a couple have stood out a bit more than others in my eyes-but that always happens and part of it is just my own personal taste. From what I’ve seen, I think what might kill the group faster than their need for a cohesive concept is the fanbase being so divisive. The fact that the hashtag # DisbandKep1er was trending last week because of solo stans is really, really toxic and it’s going to turn the fanbase further against the member they’re stanning-when it’s not her fault at all. It may even cause ill feelings within the group itself toward that member and it’s not helpful for that member at all. Can you imagine how much guilt the member is probably feeling, knowing solo stans would rather her not be in the group she worked so hard to debut in? There’s no guarantee she’d be picked up by another group, no guarantee she’ll get to keep being an idol. And to care so little about the rest of the group…it’s so sad to me.

[@missserenity1090]

Agreed

[@zoee16328]

Well said!!

[@Multifandomgirl1499]

Who's member is that since I don't have Twitter?

[@cobaltbluemaru]

@@Multifandomgirl1499 perhaps Bahiyyih,, she has a lot of hardcore solo stans

[@woroldan]

@@Multifandomgirl1499 Hiyyih

[@RenaG]

I don’t blame them not knowing what to do with this group. The lineup is very very weird.

[@hollyhampton8654]

Thank you ❤ this made me feel not so alone in just loving Kep1er for what the are

[@keropphia]

sheon lucked out 😭

[@wonderlucky1912]

Hi! Sheon is now in a girl group named Billlie and they have an interesting concept/lore. Highly recommend Billlie’s discography.

[@keropphia]

@@wonderlucky1912 yepp that’s why she lucked out… by losing top 9 she got into a grp that suits her (and seems to be more liked in kr)

[@wonderlucky1912]

@@keropphia I wish Billlie had more recognition. I think they are starting to after Gingamingayo and now their last comeback of Ring Ma Bell.

[@MikuHatsune159]

I agree that we don't have an eye for creating groups, plus the thing is we don't get a say in the music that's getting created for them anyways. So even if our chosen girls/boys make it in these survival shows, the company can ruin their chances by not marketing it correctly or giving them just forgettable music.

[@VC-cx8gf]

this might be an unpopular opinion but i think we are underestimating the brand power of produce 101. i think if mnet waited for the scandal to die down and made the concept of gp999 under the produce name as season 5, they would be bigger than they are now. no other survival show imo has been able to catch the same public interest.

[@LightCosmos]

The way some people in the comments are basically saying that rigging the results was better or that they should go back to rigging it is actually fucking crazy 💀 it also shows how these people completaly missed the point lol

[@AnABSOLUTEBarbarian]

The thing about Iz*One you really encapsulated perfectly in this video is that people get caught up in the fact that they were a “rigged” group. But upon reflection I think we must acknowledge- they were a CURATED group not unlike the standard for groups in K-Pop. Especially girls groups. Call it a double standard, but the look, chemistry, and concept for a girl group has to be harmonious or the fandom won’t buy it. I remember thinking it was nearly serendipitous that they were doing an elegant, fairy/angel, concept and every member of Iz*One had an otherworldly, ethereally vibe about them. I assumed they catered the concept to the winners. Finding out the final group was selected was a betrayal…but made so much sense. It also made sense why JYPE chose Twice instead of allowing international voting. Enhyphen I think is going through a similar situation except possibly messier. Where there’s a lot in fighting and solo stanning within Kep1er’s fandom, Enhyphen has that PLUS bullying allegations. Produce was my favorite TV Show and I didn’t want to see it go away or get transformed into GP999. I love survival shows but really Iz*One and Twice have been the only highly successful acts that have emerged from them and Iz*One disbanded. I almost think they need to have a concept planned and then ask audiences if the contestants fit the concept and to vote on that. These shows traditionally looked for versatility for idols that can fit any concept they want to roll out and change with the times. But in general I think companies need to look ahead. Look how saturated the market became with space concepts…instead of finding idols that can change with the times pick concepts that can evolve and ask survival show audiences to select based on that. And change the concept each season. But the current format is not sustainable.

[@kaelynsmith1242]

I always say groups formed by voting that aren’t “rigged” usually don’t do well for several reasons. When companies are picking groups they add people who each have a specific role to fill, members strengths make up for others weaknesses, the sound and look good together,etc when fans vote it’s always going to be a disaster mainly because fans don’t take into account a line up that would be marketable but just about their favs

[@mitzy8182]

the fact thar mvsk is their best song and it was on their debut album but not as a title track ugh, so close yet so far! i can't help but think that if their executive team had made the simple decision of choosing mvsk instead of wadada as their debut song, history would have been different for them. i personally think their edm sound suits them but it's like their team isn't fully committed to it and they're scared of it not resonating well with everyone so they light it up and try to make it cute but it doesn't work and it ends up sounding...childish? cartoonish? if they didn't take it too seriously, it could work, it did for up, but they insist on giving them "badass" concept when the sound and lyrics , honestly, don't match😭 i hope they commit to either one or the other and let them grow before they flunk. i genuinely like the girls, they deserve more

[@m0thhhhhhh]

thank you for talking about the Bahiyyh situation factually. So many people are either Bahiyyh haters who claim she didn't deserve to debut and was rigged in, or die hard bahiyyh fans who try to deny that she gained most of her gp999 popularity for being Kai's sister. In reality she was just the victim of mnets manipulation like you said

[@aangisbestboi3984]

hiyyih gained attention from kai tho, not fans

[@xrrgr]

@@aangisbestboi3984 that’s what they said.

[@emiiuu21]

its kinda sad seeing them being screwed over like this since theyre my ults. Watched gp999 and have been rooting for 7/9 members throughout the show and basically everyone I hoped to make it made it, Im not sad about the lineup I love all 9 girls so much. i just hate wake1 for what theyre doing to them rn

[@CrisOnTheInternet]

To start Kep1er should have been 3/3/3 because I don't see the point of having the same amount of contestants of each country to only make the foreign line 1/3 or the lineup. Second I think they give too much spotlight to a certain member, leaving behind others. Third the voices sometimes are so auto tuned that's hard to distinguish who's actually singing. Fourth, what happened with the concept? I mean naming a group with a physicist name should have a special meaning.

[@thewayifelt]

mnet was also sneaky for this

[@lejardindegarden]

i think a huge reason of kep1er's not-so-great-success is the fact that mnet still believed that they had a monopoly over survival shows. But after produce s2 aired, there was an abundance of idol survival shows- too many; from 2020 to 2022 there was probably like 10 shows that aired. the idea wasn't fresh anymore and fans were probably realizing that fan-picked groups aren't always the best. The ratings for gp999 were rock bottom and had no big exposure the korean gp which was a huge disadvantage. Even CLASSy, despite their survival show being quite popular, isn't charting all that great. mnet thought kep1er would have automatic success no matter how prepared or underprepared they were, but the public has moved on from survival shows, temporary groups, and unprepared/under trained kpop groups. I'd say that's why groups like NMIXX, whose music isn't gp friendly, is still thriving because of their great skills and groups like ive, lsfm, newjeans are also thriving because their music has a special colour.

[@powerpuff4ever]

Since you brought up IOI, I actually think Kepler not being _more_ like IOI is actually part of what’s gone wrong. Like you said, people are good at voting for their favorites, not necessarily voting to create a cohesive group. It was a bold move for MNET to have a more transparent system for GP999, and I think that was a good move, but I also think they should have gone back to the 10 month contract length. IOI not having a cohesive identity didn’t matter because the emphasis was on just getting in time with them. Basically, as long as they could comeback with a song that fit current trends during each season, it was going to rise because the emphasis was the group, not the music. Kepler is a group of girls who don’t necessarily compliment each other in terms of what styles suit each member but they’re still able to pull it together to appear cohesive. That’s the perfect recipe for a group that can hop one trend to another throughout the year and deliver something strong each time with different member emphasis. Something else kind of off is because of how GP999 was formatted and edited, the relationships between trainees weren’t emphasized as much and the voting of course had a lot of people hyper focusing on individuals instead of trainees that got along naturally. IOI and Iz*One had so much emphasis on the dynamics and relationships within the group and the thing people recall most actively is the “sisterhood” aspect of that apparent closeness. People don’t really talk that way about Kepler though because the show didn’t build it up and there’s still all that frustration for other members within their core fandom because their management won’t budge their concept.

[@carolb.3500]

thank you for this video! you addressed the issues surrounding the group eloquently. i agree kep1er has been in trouble since day one because of their poor management, but personally the fandom not having moved on from the survival show mindset after a year is what makes stanning kep1er so HARD. kep1ians still spend too much time arguing instead of enjoying the girls' music and content, and that holds back the group too :(

[@nabicore]

this video perfectly summarizes my feelings for kep1er

[@chunksfunks960]

I love that you ended this on a positive note about Kepler and weren't being completely negative because its so common for the fandom to claim to love and support kepler but end up lowkey hating on them

[@shatakshimishra7400]

Everyone till now question Bahiyyih. But also have guts to question other members entry who weren't in top 10 and 50% Korean weightage system that changed the whole game. Chaehyun ,Youngeun Yeseo, Dayeon, Mashiro including Bahiyyih wasnt sure. But Bahiyyih debut was sure because of her fancam views. Have guts to question Mnet . Instead of targeting all your frustrations towards one girl

[@kpoppy9635]

The only two who wouldn't make the line-up according to equal voting were Dayeon and Yeseo. The reason people questioned Bahiyyih is unfortunately due to her celebrity brother. That doesn't change the fact that she would have made it regardless if voted were equal or not.

[@shatakshimishra7400]

@@kpoppy9635 that was until the final mission was announced that changed the whole game

[@kpoppy9635]

@@shatakshimishra7400 they told us in the first ep that would happen though. People act like the rug was pulled out from under us but the host said that it would be a one-pick free-for-all in the finale in ep 1.

[@shatakshimishra7400]

@@kpoppy9635 nah because of that . All the hate was focused towards Bahiyyih.

[@kpoppy9635]

@@shatakshimishra7400 I'm just telling you what happened. I feel sorry for hiyyih but that doesn't change that those were the rules originally set up.

[@lillysthoughts4402]

It’s so painful to see the girls ultimately take all the crap for everything about their group that isn’t working, because we all KNOW that none of this is on them. All of them are super talented girls with bright futures ahead of them even after disbandment I’m sure, but “fans” of the group keep sabotaging their own members. I’ll never understand that because it was not their choice to make it into the group or not. They all saw an opportunity, took it and Mnet decided who will make it. Pitting the members against each other or excluding members will only hurt the whole group and the image of both them and the fandom and it’s so unnecessary, but I’ve seen it so so often on social media it’s disgusting… Kep1er’s fandom is probably one of the most toxic ones I’ve ever experienced in Kpop and I think this is only going to get worse with time, seeing how the management favors some members. Hoping they get out of this hellish cycle together, but I have low expectations unfortunately :(

[@GIGI-bi3hi]

Agreed! Can’t help but feel bad for them 😢

[@thk9462]

The reason for izone success was because they debuted peak kpop, ioi had short contracts, wanna ones after math is typical for boy groups as it’s harder for them to succeed among the gp. The reason why kep1er now isn’t as popular is because Koreans don’t trust mnet, but the success of boys planet will definitely bring all the hype back. Produce groups are literally made to become nations groups and they DO, girls planet voting system was also very weird and I think boys planet will be more successful as it’s closer to the og produce system. Kep1er is just fucked cause wakeone/mnet is being experimental with them instead of following the formula for every other produce group

[@erlinar7113]

For me as non fans kep1er and dont watched gp999,when found wadada..the song not my style,childish song,noisy song.i cant see/feel the harmonies of the member,lack of aura,charisma?..i only can feel xiaoting's aura,charisma and i tought she's the center but not.i dont watch produce x 101 too..but when found flash by x1,i can see/feel their aura,harmonies of the member.the song is good too.maybe in the future,kep1er will have good song and concept that will make member shine before disband.btw sorry for my bad english

[@seonne7333]

I just released that Kepler reminds me a lot of WekiMeki concept-vise. They have good music but nothing outstanding that catches attention. They both don’t have a clear niche that they can claim or fit into. And just overall they give me a very similar vibe as a group. I can’t really put it into words.

[@MrTorterra10]

it's kinda sad that wakeone might just see kep1er as a way to earn sales until the bp999 starts airing, where they know they will have a huge cash cow 😭 they are rlly lazy at producing and when cjenm had off the record they would still employ the help of other labels like pledis for the creative direction like that's why izone was so good

[@pr3ttyhijabi]

Izone was kinda like passion project for pledis ceo. He gave them way more then his own ggs.

[@vanm.8130]

Aside from their music is I just noticed they do not appear in a lot of variety shows to promote their singles. Instead of Mnet placing them in another contest (Queendom) they should've let the members appear in variety shows to show the different personality of the members and reach a wide audience.

[@escritora84]

Love your videos! I feel bad for Kep!er - I'm not even a fan, but it's hard to follow Iz*One, even more so after all the Mnet scandals. They deserve better.

[@Charlz-sw6vi]

Yeahhh, I hope Keplians support Kepler like Wizone support Izone ... IZONE is already disbanded but they are the best group that ever produced by MNET, because even after the members already separated, The members keeps getting bigger n popular for example IVE n Lesserafim, the others Solo Members also successful... Fighting Kepler n Keplians

[@ni-kingtaehyunjkyoongs2758]

It makes sense that all other gg but kepler have a more cohesive style. Except for ive all of them were planned. Either the concept was planned around the member and for the members or the members were chosen for the group. We're talking about hybes and jyp flagship gg right now.

[@biencsj1768]

Yeah, it was noted that since mnt couldn't manipulate votes so he used other methods, anyone who knows about mnt shows and watches the show will realize that Xiating, Dayeon, and Hikaru would be in the group, constant praise for Xioting and Hikaru. . . . or the fact that a group of girls went to Dayeon's house and everyone who confronted her got an evil edit. The next ones they wanted in the group were Bora, Chaehyun, and Yujin, after them, Mashiro, Mya, or Yurina had a 50% chance of taking the other spots. It was noted that they hardly wanted other Chinese members in the group (maybe wen zhe because their edits were always good) like Ru riuqi or Yaning (who are currently the most popular in China), that they didn't want Bahiyyih in the group and that's why they tried to practically eliminate her (people noticed).

[@TheOrangeAce19]

The Centers of each country are locked in, that's for sure. They wanted Bora, Mashiro, Yujin, Myah, and Youngeun for sure. Chaehyun is confusing to me as she started out strong but got edited so poorly during the creation mission, her edit is not that of a main vocalist. Had they wanted Yurina, they would have kept her relevant, AT ALL COSTS.

[@kpoppy9635]

@@TheOrangeAce19 actually I think they intentionally edited Yeseo and Chae Hyun that way to get people pity vote them. Because after the scene with Yeseo and Chae Hyun crying, Koreans voted for them like mad! Even some international fans voted for them. They definitely wanted Chae Hyun in the group cause she was under Wake One. I think her mistakes are real and they played it up for the drama and to get people to feel sorry for her. It back-fired though cause some international fans questioned her stability as a vocalist.

[@TheOrangeAce19]

@@kpoppy9635 Yeseo cried? this I did not remember and I am surprised Wake One pulled some stunts to push Chaehyun all the way to the center. Istg this lineup would not have been such a problem if we had equal vote shares in the finale OR equal proportions of members OR the "X" mechanic plus the MTG locked in slots mechanic

[@kpoppy9635]

@@TheOrangeAce19 I disagree. I didn't like MTG slot mechanic cause only like 1 or 2 of each grade could debut. (And imo some of the group members were too young to debut.) And if half the group weren't Korean, kep1er would not be successful in Korea at all because Koreans are nationalistic. Also according to votes if it had been 3 of each group it would have been: K group: Chae Hyun Yujin Bahiyyih J Group: Hikaru Mashiro Yurina C group: Xiaoting Su Ruiqi Fu Yaning So no Young Eun or Dayeon...which means no Korean ACE and no mood- maker. Su Rui qi and Yaning both had scandals so they would have brought more drama to the group despite their skills. And no Yeseo...so Korean fans would have been mad she didn't get in cause Yeseo was also well-known in Korea, being a former child actress and idol. J-line is the only unproblematic line that most fans are happy with.

[@TheOrangeAce19]

@@kpoppy9635 Then the locked in mechanic would have helped: the only tradeoff is losing Yeseo over Yaning istg this would not have been a problem had Doah survived the 2nd round (the impact it would have to the rest of the season would have been dynamite)

[@Bambabababambam]

Bahiyyih had no standout moments in GP999

[@mang_gureum]

to a hater, yes

[@syaorantukishiro2655]

The O.O.O team mission in gp999 was really a trial of Kep1er to see when team 1 is going to be cohesive or not. 6 out of 9 debuted there excluding Yurina and Ruiqi. Then, the winners of each group based on KZbin likes were Youngeun, Hiyyih and Yujin.

[@shelbystrand5592]

Kep1er has a lot of potential but I agree with everything you said sadly, it seems like sticking to teen crush will be their hindrance since kpop is growing out of it.

[@DarreNFreakable]

Being honest Kep1ers problem it’s their company how they manage their members and everything Kep1er easily could use the multiconcept idea into their favor creating a storyline kind of a multi universe since They have a ton of centers (Yujin Xiaoting Chaehyun even Yeseo) You can have Yesseo in a soft concept as Utopia Xiaoting as a Sexy concept Yujin is great at elegant mature concepts and Chahyun can stick to a Teen crush concept. I don’t consider Dayeon or Hikaru as centers , they are good at killing parts and performance, but I feel the center has an aura that even without performance starting they drag you into the group. At the moment W1 realizes that old Kpop methods for girl groups won’t work on a group that was constructed by audience they won’t do anything with Kep1er and they ll become a generic group they need to adapt themselves. Also giving the deserved recognition to the members or go and create subunits better so people can appreciate their favorite members for example I know my bias in Kep1er is Yujin and Xiaoting but I feel I don’t get the content from them that I want to see especially Yujin so I have to settle with Dayeon but I feel forced to like her I know W1 is the culprit but still I don’t think they are creating a good career path for her at the end of Dayeon debuts under an other group that group won’t do well internationally just because of the image they created for Dayeon.

[@beatrix8308]

Exactly, honestly Dayeon is acc good and all but she's being forced the throat of the fans.

[@TheOrangeAce19]

Yujin would have been a great center for the group but they are not using her well

[@chelleange1s]

i also think one of mnet’s problems was the one vote system, it’s kinda crazy to me that they chose that system since xiaoting barely made it & if she didn’t make it then su ruiqi was gonna get in whom many viewers - alongside mnet themselves did not like

[@Hii_Miraa12]

Someone In the comments mentioned how the manipulation in pd48 (although mean and inhumane to the girls who suffered from it) was kinda what made the show morr entertaining. It kept us all on our toes, made the girls work harder, and the end result was simply more satisfying. Maybe if gp999 was manipulated, Yurina woulda made it, they coulda had another main singer (except Chaehyun and Youngeun ofc) Xioting wouldn't have been sitting at no.9 (cuz she literally did not deserve that at all) and the distribution between the K, C and J members in the group woulda been more fair. Cuz let's be honest, the voting was heavily influenced by the korean gp, and they were constantly only voting for Korean girls, despite whether the talent was there or not. 6:2:1 just wasn't good enough.

[@mindyourbusiness2403]

Doublast was SUCH a great album. the versatility really surprised me and i stream it all the time fr

[@03geebee]

GP999 really needed to make the final vote a top 9 pick. This would have likely created a well rounded group with an average of everyone's favourites. And included some contestants who would not have otherwise been chosen by the 1 pick vote. Shana, Wen Zhe (for the variety content), Suyeon & Yurina were clear stand outs in the competition who didn't make it.

[@TheOrangeAce19]

Had it been a top 9 pick, Yujin, Mashiro or Xiaoting would have been center. Something Mnet does not really want, although W1 would have been amenable with Xiaoting as a center

[@suckmyartauds]

I'm so glad Suyeon went to Billlie. Honestly I prefer her being in a permanent group, she fits in well, and Billlie is doing decent!!

[@NelleBear]

Or let the judges have a say in the final line up. It sucked that some members in Iz*one were rigged in......but lets be honest, Mnet knew how to create a good, cohesive group. Kep1er are just favorites from GP999 randomly thrown together. They don't all fit the same concept nor have equal strengths (like they are missing a strong vocal line).

[@TheOrangeAce19]

@@suckmyartauds more than decent actually, they sound more positively relevant than Kep1er

[@TheOrangeAce19]

@@NelleBear THIS. ALTHOUGH we cannot really rely on them to be fully competent in their duties as production would still rig these, one way or another. A combination of both judges insight and voting would have made a world of difference, we get a lineup that gels well together and a lineup that got in the group as fair as possible. Regarding missing a vocal line, HAD THEY STUCK WITH THE EQUAL NUMBER PER COUNTRY THIS WOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM. Imagine Chaehyun-Ruiqi-Yaning-Yurina AS A VOCAL LINE, THE POWER

[@korentaylor8508]

it’s really unfortunate that their debut was so rushed :( they deserve way better

[@ily3138]

i don’t get how people are still confused about what yujin said but she definitely enjoys kep1er’s bright/fun concept which is nothing like clc’s strong concept songs (such as helicopter and hobgoblin) like what’s not clicking

[@dagarou]

This is an amazing essay that puts masterfully into words a lot of my feelings, so I"m sad now 😂

[@goldyd144]

Kep1er is supposed to have a cosmic concept that's also versatile, kind of like a cosmic version of Red Velvet. It's not working because despite the girls' performance capabilities, being versatile on a survival show doesn't always translate well into an actual group. During Queendom, other groups constantly criticisized Kep1er because they didn't stick to their strongest concept where everyone shined, See The Light and MVSK. The Girls was a return to that, and that's where they were praised again. I personally think W1 should have done a cosmic concept similar to GWSN or Cherry Bullet - cosmic, charming, elegant, and has fitting (and in some cases strong) rap verses. W1 struggles to find the sweet spot where they can do the "cosmic teen crush that feels fresh" thing that they're going for. They misuse members who fit the bright concept switches (Yeseo and Yujin weren't used during UP, a concept that suited them), they use Xiaoting like JYP uses Momo (as a singer when she should be rapping), they go out of their way to ignore Bahiyyih and Mashiro who are capable and unique vocalists, and they're not taking advantage of Kep1er members by sending them for more individual activities and schedules (the burden falls almost exclusively on Chaehyun, and she falls sick due to overworking).

[@moonlight_latte157]

Throughout the survival show, Bahiyyih was only presented as the sister of Huening Kai and not as an individual contestant who has her own talents and aspirations. I feel like if Girls Planet presented Bahiyyih as an individual contestant and gave her more screen time, she might have been better received by kpop audience during the group debut

[@annamann8659]

True. I feel bad for her. She was only 17 and a massive corporation used her for clout and the internet blamed her for it. I’m just happy that she seems to be happy on stage ❤❤

[@jbeavers001]

I'm glad you mentioned the Huening B. problem. Like seriously, if GP999 gave her even the tiniest bit of screen time to show her growth or her skills, it would not have been a sh*t show afterwards. And the smart thing for WakeOne to do know if use her popularity to make more money, but they aren't even doing that!! I take that as a hint that they do not plan to make this group last. But there are honestly some gems in Kelper. Hikaru, Dayeon, and Youngeun are that terribly amazing.

[@antonylights7169]

Wake one should push bahiyyih and xiaoting more since they got the potential to make attention to the group. But they push the member they like instead, not hating on any girl, but they can make the group popular tho. With more songs like MVSK, mature concept will make their reputation rise…

[@boyphobe]

i think even know, despite being a team, the girls are still competitive with one another, in a way i find slightly unhealthy. the most recent example i can think of was when bahiyyih posted a cover to fancafe. following her post, an hour later, a different member posted their own cover (likely riding bahiyyih’s coattails because her cover was well-received). chaehyun, after this, also commented on bbl that she had actually recorded a cover before bahiyyih (she has ~4 official covers coming out on youtube, so i don’t know why she compared herself to bahiyyih). it’s very strange to me how, instead of complimenting each other on posting covers, they step on groupmates’ heels.

[@boyphobe]

bahiyyih explained on a live that she asked wakeone for MONTHS for permission to post her cover… meanwhile other girls in the group get official covers, or can post freely.

[@goldyd144]

Is this true? I follow a few people who are subscribed to fancafe, and post almost everything related to Kep1er. I hadn't seen anything like this come up, but they could be hiding it for the sake of the group.

[@lumia4443]

exactly! it’s not just the fans, the girls act like they’re still on a survival show.

[@n4ttyyy]

@@goldyd144 No its not true, these people are probably bahiyyih solo stans. Chaehyun has only had one cover with 3 other members predebut and recently went on that youtube show where idols sing as she is the main vocalist. Bahiyyihs cover was the only one uploaded to fancafe. The girls also post short covers on universe. they dont even have bbl😭

[@goldyd144]

@@n4ttyyy Sounds about right. The closest I could think of is Yeseo did a live stream where she sung a snippet of bunch of different popular songs and GP999 songs, but literally everyone in Kep1er does that, so I don't understand how that could be competing with Bahiyyih. As well, OP could potentially be taking the context away from Chaehyun's comments, if they even happened. Feels sketch. 🤔

[@stevenwright6533]

I feel Mnet always had plans to continue the Produce series even after the rigging so they simply changed the name from PD101 to GP999, got new trainers, removed the ABCDF ranks, changed the names a bit to be space theme, replaced the position battle with the combination mission and changed the signature female PD Pink color to Purple and went forward with that. But gonna be honest, I don't think Kep1er's title track were the right choice for them, I feel WAKEONE doesn't really care about them much since they didn't become the instant success they got used to when IZ*ONE debuted (but especially from Violetta onwards) I said this when they had their debut and will stand by this MVSK should've been their debut track 1000%.

[@peachicedtears]

it really feels like wakeone is trying to force a dying brand of title track while using bsides for exploration but they need to stop exploring bc they found a concept that works exceedingly well for them already. mvsk is to this day probably my favourite kep1er song and even in their FIRST ever performance of it they had an air of confidence. they really suit the icy cool concept and the concept of dreams and downtown on troubleshooter also work really well and is vaguely similar stylistically. that is imo the concept they NEED to pursue

[@ralfirvinlariba4470]

I thought that the concept that they will do is about galaxies or such. Like izone being aesthetic/diamond. But I'm disappointed with their concept now. I know that many groups doing the galaxy/space concept but they can do it with a twist.

[@cmartinez2998]

I feel sad for Yujin :(

[@ravenbelvrie2433]

Definitely agree with all your points regarding their current concept(s). When i first heard that they were going with a planet theme, i was really hoping they could kind of distinguish themselves with an "explorer" concept. Like I already expected the company was going to focus on just following trends, so i figured they could approach those trends through the lens of 'visiting different planets' and by making a lot of galactic and exploration references (so that hopefully it would be more cohesive/marketable). idk, does that make sense?

[@viviparade2199]

I don't know if its because I watched gp999 and learned to like all the girls individually before knowing the group, or simply because the full Kep1er lineup is just unbalanced and weird to begin with, but I just can't see Kep1er as a full-fledged girl group. I love them all, but the group itself never feels like a united, cohesive unit, I can always tell individual members apart. The literal ONLY time I have ever thought Kep1er looked and felt cohesive was with MVSK, so I really hope they try that again since it suited every member almost surprisingly equally.

[@lunacxx1330]

It’s hard to follow Iz*one & the company isn’t treating Kep1er perfectly

[@xsomili5501]

I watched the whole of Gp999 and participated in every voting. For my top 9 and top 1. I was so devoted. And yet when Kep1er debuted, i did not Stan... Because wth is wa da da as a debut song... The wa da da part irritates me so much that I dropped the whole group 😭

[@xsomili5501]

@leo exactly

[@tzxyuaesthetics9338]

i disagree that you should distribute screen time on the show based on popularity and i have always wished it was done more on talent/performance quality. girls like yeyoung and ziyin were excellent singers who got almost no screentime etc. it is a show, so i understand the need to balance it out with variety and heartwarming moments, but it's disappointing to see people who put in effort or the ones singing/dancing circles around everyone get sidelined to promote mnet's prechosen picks. though, to be fair i get that 99 girls were never going to get equal screentime and it needed to be done somehow !

[@NelleBear]

It was odd that Mnet didn't give more screentime to the stronger vocalists to try and get a better vocal line into Kep1er. (Something they are lacking rn.) It would be interesting in a future show to split votes not on nationality, but by position (rapper, dancer & vocalist) to try and get a more balanced final group in terms of talent.

[@archd1177]

@@NelleBear they definitely tried, if you watching the show , chebul bora probably the second people who get most screentimes after dayeon in the second till the last part of the show. some people just don't get the vote even if the PD clearly biased here

[@waywardevan]

i feel for kep1er, gp999 was the first survival show i watched live and by the end of it, mnet's past rigging made more sense. i don't agree with it entirely given the trainees who got cut (pls stan chowon and lightsum), but part of the issue is that kep1er is not a lineup that would be chosen for a typical group. the members have many talents but there is definitely overlap between them, and with concepts that don't suit all 9 of them each time, they are not being set up for success by any means. like youngeun introduced herself on gp999 with that iconic kick it performance alongside jia, but she has to pull so much weight as a vocalist in kep1er that we don't get to see that side. not to mention you wouldn't know that chaehyun is the center if you didn't watch the show lol. and i totally agree with your onomatopoeia point, you'd think the members can't sing with all the random sounds they are made to do, but that's not the case at all!! wake one is not doing a great job, but i do feel like the troubleshooter album is a step in the right direction for their image.

[@Guitargoddess843]

I mean I was really truly genuinely upset that Miru didn't make it into Izone-especially when I couldn't believe Hyewon made it-so I felt vindicated when I found out she would have made it without manipulation (and was surprised Hyewon did, too). But I would NEVER have fought anyone about it the way Kep1er's fans do. I even actively rooted Hyewon on and enjoyed seeing her improve - especially with her huge gap in ability! I like the other girls too. I was only kind of sore that even though Sakura won both the rigged and unrigged voting, everyone says Wonyoung won because she won the center position. Kep1er's shows that winning center definitely doesn't mean you win (poor Chae). But from the outside, seeing how Hiyyih is treated continuously is so painful. I don't even like Kep1er tbh, but I'm a fan of Hiyyih and her mistreatmeant only makes me feel more emboldened. I think she is talented and has a visual any group would die to have on their team and she has good presence (for what you can even get of it) and great charisma on camera. I also root for Yoojin because I want CLC to come back under a new company (they're technically not disbanded according to Sorn) and I want to see her get better treatment because she, like all the CLC members, is incredibly talented. It's sad to see her leading a group that has so many problems and a messy fan base. She deserves the easy street-an Izone Cinderella story without the rigging scandal. It's just so upsetting to see these girls get pretty meh songs and concepts while their fans seem to cannibalize themselves. It's also sad because among the new groups with confusing concepts and annoying songs, I kind of lean towards supporting NMixx more because their raw talent is so insane (Lily joins the ranks of the greatest singers in kpop-Wendy, Ailee, Taeyeon, etc. - EASILY with her incredible skill, range, and technique)... So yeah... Kep1er is just in a weird place. I wish they HAD leaned in on space theming. They could even have a sort of storyline like Loona or Alexa. You can also incorporate more fitting style concepts by having the girls lead their own sort of "style planets" or something. Idk. ANYTHING would be better than whatever they're doing now.

[@mylovechoerry2233]

Lol hiyyihlight are the biggest bully, most dayeon hater are hiyyihlight. Stop playing the victim.