Updating the Festool MFT3 with Benchdog Fence, top protectors and mini dogs

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi, and thank you for watching my video. I hope you enjoy it and I look forward to your comments. Cheers Andy

[@WasimBarri]

In actual fact, Andy, that 0.05mm is over 4 length cuts therefore you have to divide by 4 giving an error of 0.0125mm over the length of that rectangle which is under 5/10,000 of an inch which is a fantastic result. So your result is even better than you thought. So all your fences, holes and rails are perfectly straight, aligned and square. A better and easier setup than the hinged and not perfect guide rail set up from Festool. I'm convinced! What this has shown me that I can make my own mft top/bench using the parf guide system, which I already own and accessories from benchdogs and be miles below festool's price with the remainder going to extra guide rails, dogs, clamps etc. Thanks for showing this!

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+John Barr Hi John, Yes that is correct, it’s so long ago I learned that approach that I have forgotten the details. You can then also calculate the degree deviation from that point - I must go and look it up, hate it when Inforget things... BUT yes it is very accurate, and what I love about it is that I can position it anywhere on my MFT’s and get exactly the same result with no additional calibration - every single time. I am also convinced. Infact - I am going to replace that entire wall of MFT’s and the CMS with three MFT style mobile benches, one will have a built in function to take the CMS modules. With a number of Benchdog fences, top protectors, dogs and rails. Not sure I will use the Parf guide system, Benchdogs are about to introduce a new range of CNC tops - so depending on price point - I am thinking of using those. If they are price prohibitive, I will use the Parf guide system. I believe I can build this for a lot less than a single MFT and CMS base - and have increased accuracy and functionality over the MFT & CMS. I will keep one MFT for site work, but the CMS base and accessories and the MFT could well make an appearance e on eBay.... Thanks for commenting - talk soon, Andy

[@WasimBarri]

@@TheWoodgrafter Andy, arctan(.0125/length of rectangle in mm) would give that deviation but I'm sure its nearly zero. I was a maths teacher in a former life, now a woodworker. Love your videos

[@TheWoodgrafter]

John Barr So 0.00000946969697 degrees, I think we can take that as accurate enough...... 👍

[@WasimBarri]

@@TheWoodgrafter Not good enough!! I think you should give all your equipment to me!!!!

[@TheWoodgrafter]

John Barr Yes, I think you are correct. BUT I wouldn’t want to pass on this terrible performance - I know it’s going to be hard, but I will carry this cross alone. And take one for the team. Wish me luck. Andy

[@olivepressdesign]

Andy, this was a fantastic video. Thank you. Just what I was looking for.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi, Thank you for the comment and glad you found it useful. Cheers Andy

[@karlkjj]

I’ve just received my Benchdogs uk fence fantastic quality and Ralph thanks you for buying it .... great to buy from someone who cares 👍

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+Karl Jones Hi Karl, Yes I love the fence - and Benchdog.co.uk service is excellent. It helps that Ralph is also a keen woodworker in his own right - so he gets it. Talk soon Andy

[@ChristopherClaudioSkierka]

Hi, got some of the kit. The main bench dogs are good, but there is a bit of slack back and forth before you tighten it up so if you are not careful your cut line will be out by 1mm at an angle I estimate I have found with fence/track dogs(9.49). you have to make sure you push the track back or forth at each side so the slack is identical at both parts . I use a Makita track.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi Christopher, Is that slack in the track dogs - if so when, you tighten you find the design of the nut pulls it all square. If not let me know, I'll check with Ralph over at Benchdogs. Kind Regards Andy

[@ChristopherClaudioSkierka]

@@TheWoodgrafter Hi, no there about the guide rail dogs( track dogs), no I can not see some 'design' on the nut that pulls it square , tried several times. there is a little bit of slack on even if you push the track back on both of the dogs to get rid of the slack it will pull in a bit but then again it will not happen to the same degree to the other one. Perhaps then work better with festool and not with makita, no idea. So there is little chance ending up which a 90% cut. Its a nice idea and I think for non accurate work it might be okay but then again I may as well use the normal benchdogs since I really do not mind having 2 or 3 grooves on the worktop and use some scraps to hold up the track .

[@ChristopherClaudioSkierka]

typo 90 degrees not '%' :)

[@thomasheyse2651]

Enjoyed the thorough review. Gives a great alternative to the Festool rail system and frees up real estate.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+Thomas Heyse Hi Thomas, yes it is working well. So quick and easy. Thank you for getting in touch, Kind Regards Andy

[@markjervis8558]

AWESOME VID ANDY. LOOKING FORWARD TO THE MFT BUILD

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+Mark Jervis Hi Mark, Thank you for the feedback. Talk soon Andy

[@jasonlaverty76]

Great video, just started using a MFT slab with the guide Dogs plus B collars for my Bosch plunge saw and it really is brilliant at getting cuts to 90 degrees. Cheers for the clear explanation as to there uses and additional kit available. I have now subscribed and will spend a pleasant evening looking through your back catalogue.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi Jason, Welcome on board, thank you for taking the time to comment - and I look forward to your feedback. Enjoy your evening :-) Andy

[@yorckherzberg5628]

Hi Andy, your videos are always very good. I like also Festool. Many greetings from germany.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+Yorck Herzberg Hallo Yorck Vielen Dank für Ihre Kommentare, wie Sie feststellen können, dass ich auch Festool mag. Mit freundlichen Grüßen Andy

[@l.k.1011]

This is so cool. Thank you for the video and showing the features of the system in a very detailed way. Didn't know that, this fence exist till I saw it in one of Peter Millards videos. Only knew the ujk parf fence until now. But I have to say that I am more convinced (for the purpose I will using it) about the benchdog system. Maybe I am gonna combine the bench dogs for the fence with a standard aluminium profile... Thanks again!

[@TheWoodgrafter]

There is a new version of the fence out now, has a really useful "under track" support of you are track saw user. And since this video ALL Woodgrafter Subscribers get 5% with Benchdogs. Juts use the code THEWOODGRAFTER at checkout. Cheers Andy

[@l.k.1011]

@@TheWoodgrafter Thank you for your response, Andy! Just watched your video about the latest version of the fence. That really makes sense since I am planning to do most of my cuts with my track saw instead of a miter saw/table saw. Again, thank you! Saludos Lukas

[@Mart1st]

Hi just watched your benchdog video and found it most interesting as I’m about to enter the world of MFT and purchase my first MFT table top and am thinking of some kind slab idea, which would lend itself nicely with the products on you video. Thank you very much I really enjoyed it.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi Martin Not sure what you mean by “slab idea” but glad you found the video useful. I haven’t gone back to any of the Festool accessories since I went down this route. Cheers Andy

[@Mart1st]

The Woodgrafter Hi, the slab I referred to is just basically the MFT top idea, eg. Click to view larger image and other views CNC-cut-mini-MFT-slab-Alternative-to-Festool-MFT-3-Moisture-resistant-MDF thumbnail 1 CNC-cut-mini-MFT-slab-Alternative-to-Festool-MFT-3-Moisture-resistant-MDF thumbnail 2 Have one to sell? Sell it yourself CNC cut mini MFT slab - Alternative to Festool MFT/3 - Moisture resistant MDF

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Ah got it, Cheers Andy

[@FierceSleepingDog]

Nice video. You answered a lot of my questions.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Thank you Tim, Cheers Andy

[@robertpap6726]

Hello, When I saw you make your measurement for the 5 cut method I think I saw you measure the thickness of the 8 mm plywood. You need to measure the difference from front to back of the 5 cut off. Most people make the last cut off about 25 mm.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi Robert, I think it gets you to the same point, the fifth cut should be a parallel cut from the board as everything is referenced from the first cut. So measuring the off cut allows you to measure the error (compounded over the perimeter of the board). Cheers Andy

[@Mike--K]

Robert, I looked closely, and Andy is measuring the front and back width of the fifth cut, not the thickness of the board.

[@pauldavison7105]

I see one problem with the raildogs. The dog is only supporting the track at the rear where the channel is. But a scrap piece of stock would support the full width of track. Does this not allow your track to twist and flex with saw weight and pressure on smaller work ?

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+paul davison Hi Paul, the B collars ensure that the rail stays at the correct height - but narrow stock presents a problem. So I still use the scrap stock on very narrow pieces. Cheers Andy

[@k.b.woodworker3250]

Excellent video! Great job showing the system and what can be done with it. I was looking at the adjustable dogs that Peter Millard did a video on, but ordering them to the U.S. especially with shipping is above my budget. I'm hoping that they will get a U.S. distributor at some point, because I like the flat table protectors, too. In the meantime Precision Dogs makes a collar with their rail dogs, so I got those. They don't make the adjustable dogs that stay in the table. Pretty neat system, makes the MFT much more versatile.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+K.B. Woodworker Hi, and thank you for your comments. Yes the quad dogs look really good, hopefully I will have some to review at some point. I know Veritas do a Parf dog - I think they may be adjustable, I can’t be sure - but may be worth a look.they should be available in the US. Also Axminster stock some Parf Dogs and ship to the USA - but I guess that will be at a cost. I’ll check with Benchdogs to see if they are lining up a US distributor. I’ll let you know. Cheers Andy

[@normanboyes4983]

Thanks Andy.👍

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+Norman Boyes Hi Norman, thank you for the comment. Cheers Andy

[@bigmac1598]

You should reference William Ng for the 5 cut method

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+Big Mac Hi Big Mac, thank you, it was actually something I was talked many years ago for setting up fences on machines in a machine shop. I was an industrial apprentice electrician and used to be fascinated by the joinery shop and the various techniques they used. I am afraid Indon’t know William Ng (but will look into him) I saw one of the old guys doing this in the workshop and asked him what he was doing - he taught me the technique - there is much more to it than I demonstrated as he then used the offset to calculate how much adjustment to dial into the fence. That must have been about 30 odd years ago. Facinating technique, and a fascinating machine shop they made absolutely everything from scratch to keep the plant working. Sadly they seemed to have died out In the modern age. Talk soon Andy

[@christianpetersen1782]

Hi Andy, Just found you. I’m impressed with the full content of your video. Subbed! Am using Makita rails. Is it practical to use the B collar rail dogs with the bench protectors please?

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi Christian, Thank you for the feedback, and welcome to the channel. Yes you can use the B collars and the protectors. Just remember to add the thickness of the protectors to depth of the stock and it will work fine. Cheers Andy

[@anthonyavila6847]

Hi Andy, I love the videos! Any reason from switching from the festool rail to the bench dogs rail? Was it just because of the marking or is there another advantage? I appreciate the time you put in to create and share your videos!

[@TheWoodgrafter]

The main reason was the ability to use the fence dogs to clamp down the fence. I found that the Festool rail would lift if clamping something hard against it. Having said that the fence dogs work with the Festool rail as well. The fence itself does have the measurements that is an advantage and I find the flag stops slightly better. The Festool rail does have one advantage in that the thinner end section fits under the track and supports the wood. Benchdogs are about to release a product that solves this. Cheers Andy

[@anthonyavila6847]

@@TheWoodgrafter Thanks Andy for the detailed response I really appreciate it good sir!

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Anthony Avila Your welcome,

[@vileguile4]

At 24:45 there's a cut in the video at a very critical moment (you check the 5 cut challenge result). Why is that?

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Sorry. What is the question why I use the 5 cut method or why there was an edit cut at 24:45? Cheers Andy

[@markcopple2870]

This was very helpful. I would appreciate your thoughts on my idea: I have a bosch track saw. I was thinking about building my own MFT style table with a dedicated track just for the table. If I were to set the saw to the maximum depth of cut and then raise the track so the kerf went slightly into the table top then I would not have to worry about constantly raising or lowering the track. I could just place the work piece under the track, add a sacrificial piece above it to fill the gap between the work piece and the track and I would be done! What do you think?

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi Mark, Thank you for your comments, In theory the idea would work with one caveat. The rails use friction to hold the workpiece (on the Festool a black rubber grip on the underside of the rail) if you use the sacrificial stock in your design you would not have that grip so the work piece would slide. So you would have to add some sort of clamping option OR use a router mat (type thing) between your work stock and the sacrificial stock. My question would be why ? What is it you are you are trying to gain by this method. The easiest way is to build your table, then use a couple of dogs in the holes and then rest the rail against the dogs. That way it instantly adjusts to the stock height, allows you to cut into the table for tear out and also grips the stock as per the design of the rail. The only con per your ideas is adjusting the height of the cut. I would be interested in your response. Andy

[@markcopple2870]

@@TheWoodgrafter Thanks again for the quick reply. Keep in mind that I am new to track saws (two weeks) and have never used an MFT style table before. So my idea may be born out of ignorance than stupidity. What I was thinking was, instead of constantly changing the depth of cut on the saw, I could have it at a set height. then just put board(s) under it in the gap between the track and the work piece. The boards would be small (the width of the track). the number of boards in the gap could be approximate to fit the space. I would have a fence (bench dog) to push the work piece up against. my thinking was that it would be quicker to put a few boards (made for purpose) in the gap to approximately fill the void than to adjust the height of the track and the depth of cut. I would love to hear your thoughts! thanks!

[@TheWoodgrafter]

@@markcopple2870 Hi Mark, Track saws are cool, Not sure of the model you are thinking of or have, the one I have is the Festool TS55 and it so easy to adjust the depth of cut. I think it would take longer to find a price of stock to put under the track at the correct thickness.. What you are suggesting will work, but I honestly think you will lose a lot of the benefits of the track saw system by fixing it the depth of cut. And artificially changing the thickness of the board I think could introduce in-accuracies into your work (as things will skip). I would go for a bench dogs fence, two dogs to push your track against and then adjust the depth of cut on the track saw to allow for stock thickness. Super fast and super accurate. Why not give both approaches a go and see what works for you, there are many many ways in woodworking to achieve the same outcome. In this case, fast, repeatable, accurate, safe cuts. Cheers Andy

[@markcopple2870]

@@TheWoodgrafter Thanks, the more I think about what you are saying, I think you are right. with my idea, the benefits are far less than the risks. I actually have the bosch that runs on mafell track. So now I need to decide to go festool MFT or make my own. There is a guy in the USA that makes a MFT style track hinge for a bosch mafell track. It is really expensive though. thanks again for your insights I RELLY REALLY appreciate it!!!

[@TheWoodgrafter]

@@markcopple2870 I would make your own MFT top, I have a video coming out on that in the next couple of weeks. You don’t really need the hinge, just bang it against the dogs. Cheers A

[@duffleaver6108]

At 16:31 it appears that you will be cutting through the bench dog protectors because your cut is right on top of them.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

LoL It wouldn’t be the first time that has happened and it won’t be the last. I have a very nice collection of mangled bench protectors :-) I this case, I didn’t make the cut - but you are correct. Cheers Andy

[@adrianmcwilliams8717]

Hi, great, informative video, thanks for sharing. At 16:20 ish in the video, will you not be cutting into the bench protectors in that setup?

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+Adrian McWilliams Hi Adrian, yes if I made that cut, but that was just an illustration rather than a practical example. In reality, I still line up the cut between rows of holes to aboud that problem. Thank you for the feedback, Cheers Andy

[@ChinskiChat]

Just what I was looking for! Shame you never had the quad dogs though - would have been good to see them side by side in a real world scenario. Are the rail dogs really better than the Festool rail lifty thingy? They look to be a bit of a fuss compared if I’m honest ... And maybe another rail on the other side of the track with reverse tape measured from the outside blade edge - would also support the stock better ... Keep up the great work.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+ChinskiChat Hi Chinski, I find that the Festool rail clamps have play in them, the system tend to rely on the protractor for its support. I have had to many occasions where the Festool rails have slipped during use and knocked off the accuracy. So from that point of view, yes they are better as they are rock solid and don’t move. The only fussy bit is when you use the knobs to lock them under the table, but then they are rock solid. I like the idea of the second rail, especially on the two MFT set up. I will check with Ralph to see if it is possible to etch an inversed scale. Although could just turn the rail over I suppose. Thank you for the feedback. Andy

[@ChinskiChat]

The Woodgrafter Silly me - I should have been clearer. By rail I meant cutting rail (as opposed to fence rail). The Festool rail lift system for the Mft feels quite solid to me with no wiggle - and the height adjustment / support just seems easier than fiddling with rail dogs, no?

[@TheWoodgrafter]

@@ChinskiChat Ahh, got it - that was my first option to find a second hinge - so create a second cutting station. However by he time I realised that was a good idea I had the second MFT and no accessory kit. In the UK you can't buy that as a standalone item - and I didn't really want another protractor - so it became cost prohibiting to follow that solution. Yes it is easier than fiddling with rail dogs - until you come to move it to a different location - or want to use a different size rail - then the Festool system is way harder to move. At the end of the day - both ideas will work - so it depends what you have, what you are buying, what you are trying to achieve and how much money you have. Talks soon Andy

[@Shuttleworth68]

@@TheWoodgrafter This site in the UK lists the hinge (support unit) as an Item you can buy on its own, items 77 and 84. www.mtmc.co.uk/Festool-MFT/3-/-495314-Spare-Parts__p-94018.aspx

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Thank you, Good to know, the price for the two sub assemblies come in at around £120 plus the rail so looking at at around £160 for the second station. Kind Regards Andy

[@peterm85]

Just discovered your channel. Excellent advice and reviews! But I cannot keep myself from asking this: at 15:20, you were going to say "nipples" weren't you? 😆😆

[@TheWoodgrafter]

LoL, I had to go back and watch again, but yes there is a very good chance that was in my mind. No idea where nobles came from. Probably a cross between nipples and nodules…. Andy

[@sharifshahwan9256]

I was on the verge of making a generic MFT top with parf guide system and using a bunch of Benchdogs hardware after Peter Millard’s vids but then I came across a used MFT with all the trimmings. It’s great that there’s an alternative but it begs the question of whether buying an MFT (or two) is a waste if you’re not using the side rails. I know you wanted to get the space behind the bench back but aside from that, is there any advantage over MFT hardware for cross cuts? Food for thought. Another good vid, thanks.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+Sharif Shahwan Hi Sharif, Now that is an interesting question, I am beginning to think that the accessory kit is not something I would recommend with the Festool. However the profile on the side of the MFT is more versatile than a simple T track. Especially if you use it with the crown stops for attaching things (like the Incra fence). The protractor obviously gives you infinite angle adjustment for the fence in relationship to the rail. And the hinge on the rail is super simple - and if you use it all as Festool design than it is bang on accurate. As the Festool system hangs of the side of the MFT (as opposed to sitting on the MFT) then you have a wider cross cut than with the Benchdog system. Like anything - it depends on what you are trying to do. I needed the room back, I wanted to be able to quickly put my cutting station anywhere on the double table, I wanted to be able to use my Incra fence in multiple ways, and above all I wanted accuracy in everything I do. So in a small shop (for me) I think the Benchdog system makes sense. Both systems have pro’s and con’s - now that would be a good idea for a video.... Thank you for getting in touch, Cheers Andy

[@Shuttleworth68]

@@TheWoodgrafter You can buy the Festool MFT side rail in 2m lengths if you want to make your own longer version of an MFT. www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/Festool-496824-4014549132067-Table-Profile--Mft-3-Tp-2000-La#FullDescription P.S. Another great video Andy, keep it up!

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Shuttleworth68 Hi there, yes I have seen the Festool rail but the expense is high even by Festool standards. Thank you for the feedback. Talk soon Andy

[@beyondutility]

Good video thanks. I was worried that the guide rail dogs might have a little play where they attach to the rail - does the captive nut there have any wiggle? IE could you attach the two dogs not in line with each other?

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi Fergus, I haven’t found this at all - and haven’t seen any reports of the problem. The way I use them is to leave them lose in the rail and fit them to the bench. Then tighten up underneath the table - that way there is zero play and everything lines up. Before you tighten them - there is some play so the problem you describe could potentially exist. Tightening under the table removes that problem. The captive nuts are machined to a high tolerance to allow for this. Hope that helps Andy

[@2smoothku]

Does this fence work with the CMS Mitre Guage?

[@barryirby8609]

Excellent content, Well done, Thank you

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+Barry Irby Hi Barry, Thank you for the feedback. Kind Regards Andy

[@eversleyowl]

Thanks for making this video, it was a KZbin suggestion and I have started watching some of your other videos. You now seem to only be using the MFT with other manufacturers equipment. As you said in another video the MFT is not compleyely rigid (hence you reintroducing your bench). You have also bought two MFTs to get sufficient work surface. With hindsight would you still go for 2 MFTs or would you consider making your owj custom bench using an after market supplied top with hole pattern, or even buying the ParfGuide system to make your own tops?

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+T Radford Hi T Redford, welcome to the channel and thank you for taking the time to engage. I wish we had hindsight before we started things :-) , and If I had then, no Inwouldn’t have purchased the MFT’s. I would have made three MFT style benches - probably the same dimensions as the MFT - but each a separate mobile module on wheels - so they can be configured in a variety of ways. The third module would also be able to take the CMS modules to give me flexibility across the router table, the saw table and a sending station. So saving money on the CMS table as well. Each one would have more storage under and a T rack to allow for clamping on the edge. They would be fitted with CNC made tops, with the usual 20mm hole Configuration - but would have an extra series of 20mm holes towards the back to push that fence as far backwards as possible to maximise the working area. The Incra LT positioned would be a definate addition as would the various Benchdog things Inhave been talking about. If I didn’t use the CNC made top - I would invest in Peter’s Parf guide system and make the tops. But for me the CNC top is the way to go. Actually I will be making this configuration for the shop in a future series, as I believe that is the ultimate set up for the small workshop. The hand tool bench will definitely be staying - and hand tools will be coming back into my workflow in the near future. Good question - and obviously you have read my mind. Talk soon Andy

[@slimcrna]

Thank you very much for your video series. I just got the whole kit and I am using your process to set the B collar height on the real dogs. I’m having trouble finding a good way of doing it if I am using the bench top protectors. Do you have any suggestions?

[@borstroem]

Hi Andy, I like the idea of having two MFT tables in line with each other. Have you tested whether the 20 mm holes are "in line" across the two tables? or do you do something special when "screwing/putting" them together?

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi Borstroem, Yes I have checked and they are lined up, I find that the connectors line up the two tables perfectly - the height needs a bit of alignment with the adjustable feet. I checked by putting the Festool rail across the two MFTs. Resting against dogs and then checked the squareness with a fence across each table in turn. Thank you for commenting, Regards Andy

[@mikefritz9318]

Just not happy with the fence setup in that vertical position. It leaves a lot of the material unsupported like when you were doing the 5 cut process. The Festool fence at least fits under the rail to provide more support. Have you thought about flipping the fence to the other position and would it fit under the rail? And I really appreciate your videos. Keep up the great work.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+Mike Fritz Hi Mike, I hear you, I still haven’t found a good solution for supporting under the rail. Yes you can mount the fence on its side and lock it to the table with the screws that come with the fence kit. And then it will slide under the rail. The problem is that it will only slide as far as the rail dog and then it catches on the collar. It will clear the dog without the collar fitted however - and as the stock supports the rail at that end not sure the collar adds value at the end. The rail is also 20mm thick so doesn’t really work for stock less than 20mm. The Festool rail is 12mm thick, but then I don’t have the scale. The Festool rail will also catch on the rail dog if the collar is fitted. What we need is a “thingymajig” that will sit under the rail and be about 3mm thick. It would have a square face that will sit flush with the fence face (in either orientatiaon). It will probably be a rectangle with a 20mm hole in it that allows the fence dog to pass through and a 20mm dog on the other end to secure to the table. Now that is an idea... Thank you for the feedback and taking the time to comment. Cheers Andy

[@lemech]

Hi, the rail dogs seem to fit a bit loose on the mft holes and there is no way to tighten them down on the mft. Did you try to wiggle the rail sideways with the 2 rail dogs in position to see how much of a tilt sideways (or error) you can get? Thanks.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi, I get zero play in mine, I have them secured under the table with a couple of M8 bolts (Benchdogs sell them) but any M8 bold with a washer will work. There is an 8mm thread in the base of the dogs for that purpose. If you don’t have that thread - then they may be faulty. Cheers Andy

[@lemech]

@@TheWoodgrafter Hi Woodgrafter, I am referring to the rail dogs and not bench dogs. The rail dogs do not have the M8 threads at the base.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Ah sorry, The way I use those is to put them in the rail and leave them lose. Put the dogs through the holes, then tighten them into the rail from under the bench. That way everything locks down with no movement. Cheers Andy

[@lemech]

@@TheWoodgrafter Got it. Thanks!

[@ZenoErwt]

Would this work for angles too? (at least 45 by using the grid? And perhaps another idea for doing other angles too?

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi Zeno, Yes that would work, just angle the fence across the grid. Works a treat. Cheers Andy

[@ZenoErwt]

@@TheWoodgrafter thanks for the quick reply! :)

[@ChinskiChat]

I’m deciding between these and the ujk part super dogs. The Parf come with an optional stabilising chamfer ring to be certain of square fitting (especially on taller dogs). Is square a problem with the taller super quad dogs I wonder? Have you been sent any to test yet? Would also like an independent review of the parf rail clamps :-)

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi, Yes I have seen the stabilising shamfer. That only works if you cut a corresponding chamfer in your table. I know a cutter is available for this - at the same price as a parf dog!. But to be honest - its the fit into the 20mm hole that gives the stability, not a shamfer. Both the parf dogs and the quad digs rely on clamping in the hole for the fit, and most normal dogs rely on a thread clamp under the table. I have used bench dogs for years on my hand tool bench and friction fit and the pressure of the workpiece holds them in place. I haven't got the quad dogs as yet - but will hopefully get some for review. I don't have a relationship with UJK so don't have any of those - but given that they are only around £22 i may buy some and go head to head, I am interested in the rail clamps - they are pretty cheap so will pick a set up and see what I think. Watch this space. Cheers Andy

[@ChristopherClaudioSkierka]

Hi there, yes I agree the cost seems ok - I am going for a makita based system for the rail and a 'private cnc made top not the festool mft one --- its quite expensive. May I ask you something please? your digital angle finder - what make/model is it, there are loads out there but most probably are rubbish. Thanks in advance

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi, Sounds like a good plan. A friend of mine just had a custom CNC top made for his shop. I must confess it came out really well - and less than a jig to make your own. So may be worth while shopping around. If you are in the UK I may be able to track down the details. I only tend to use the angle finder as a simple demo tool for KZbin - it's visual. It is not a high quality one just cheap and cheerful from Amazon. Cheers Andy

[@raysmith1992]

Just found you on KZbin and thank you for an excellent product review, I am interested in your MDT bench build as I am getting rid of my table saw and want to build a cutting station to complement my traditional workbench where I use hand tools a big 👍 👍 up 5 ⭐️ review

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+Ray Smith Hi Ray, welcome on board. The MFT will be coming soon - just collecting the bits and bobs and thinking through the design. Thank you for the 5 star review :-) Talk soon. Andy

[@raysmith1992]

The Woodgrafter I am thinking of putting a sacrificial piece of wood where the cross cut will be, which can be replaced, looking forward to tour design

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi Ray, I have seen that somewhere, it is a good idea. However, I would use the top as is, and when it gets time to replace, route out at that point and insert an MDF strip. That way you know exactly how you are going to use it, I now have at least 4 cutting position I use regularly. Thanks for the comment. Cheers Andy

[@jakesale6087]

I think at 16:30 if you had made the cut you would have an issue.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi Jake, had to go back and check. 😀 Apart from cutting through the holes it would have worked. It does look like the fence is sticking out of the rail - but that is one of the holes in the bench. Unless you have spotted something I have missed ? Cheers Andy

[@jakesale6087]

The Woodgrafter hello Andy, I think the bench top saves are directly under your cut line.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Ah gotcha - yes you could be correct. It wouldn’t be the first time I have cut through a protector. I am glad they are a soft material, otherwise it would have been (yet another) new saw blade. The strange thing is, the saw blades are twice the price of a new table top - perhaps I need to rethink table top protectors..... Cheers Andy

[@Sisu2280]

Anyone that has tried both... Should I sell the MFT/3 kit (except the track) and buy this fence set-up? Or there's not much benefit over the Festool version (if you grab the dogs?)

[@TheWoodgrafter]

The advantage of the fence set up is it take up less room behind the bench, so you can have the bench closer to the wall. The Festool version is super quick with the hinge action - if you have made the purchase in the Festool and aren't worried about the distance from the wall - then I would stick with the Festool. Cheers Andy

[@Sisu2280]

@@TheWoodgrafter thanks for that. Loads of people have had issues with the Festool system and getting square cuts.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

@@Sisu2280 Hi, like most tools it’s all in the set up, the Festool system doesn’t actually use the 20mm grid for calibration, so you have to tune the fences to the table. I have a video somewhere that shows you how to set up the Festool so it does give you square cuts. So long as the 20mm grid of holes is accurate, the Benchdogs style system is pretty cool proof. Cheers Andy

[@igorgi18011959]

Great Video. Well done. Keep doing. Thank you a lot .

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Thank you for the comment. Andy

[@plantbased2846]

The thickness of the board is not changed by cutting; only a tool like a thickness planer or thickness sander would change the thickness of the board.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi, Not sure I follow your point, I agree with you, but not sure why you have made the statement. Did I say it wrong in the video ? Andy

[@matthew359]

Hi Andy, I would like to share with you how I have 2 of my MFT/3 setup. I make use of two Festool fences with applied Starrett tapes on either side of the guide rail. I routed new 20mm holes farther back on the tables specifically to mount the fences using fence dogs while maintaining a minimum 24" cross cut capacity. What I've ended up with is the ability to quickly pop the fence off/on while maintaining square and because of the second fence to the right of the rail I have a repeatable offcut fence with its own calibrated tape for offcuts. Happy to share pictures if you provide a way to do so.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+Matthew Eason Hi Matthew, Thank you for the comment - yes I can see what you have done and it sounds like a good setup. I will be adding a second fence on the other MFT to give support for both sides of the rail and to also speed up setting up the second cutting station. I like the idea of a second set of holes so will look into that. You can always send photo’s to [e-mail] I would be interested in seeing what you have set up. Cheers Andy

[@Reefgc]

I recently purchased fence dogs and guiderail dogs as well as a new mft top. I can not seem to get a square cut from it! I have tried multiple pieces of extrusion and different holes for the fence dogs but no luck . Everything is tightened but does not cut square . Help!! 😔

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+Reefgc Interesting, have you checked the holes in the MFT, the Benchdog setup is only as good as the layout on the top. I know there are a lot of CNC tops on the market, and I have had mixed feedback on them - not always accurate. I obviously use the Festool tops, so everything is bang on. Tell me about your top.

[@Reefgc]

The Woodgrafter well, the top is brand new from Festool. I could maybe try to see if I can verify square of the holes somehow, not sure how to do that . One would think this system is so simple, it’s hard to mess it up.. the fencedogs do fit kinda loosely, how is that for you ?

[@TheWoodgrafter]

+Reefgc Hi, well if it’s a Festool top then that is not the problem, My fence dogs fit pretty tight, and I also clamp them from underneath with a couple of Festool 6mm (I think) knobs. So I have zero play in the fence. How are you fixing your rail to the top, are you using the holes or the flip down hinge ?

[@Reefgc]

The Woodgrafter thx for ur input btw! :) using the holes ! So maybe something is off with my fence dogs or top then, seems unlikely to me . I am also fastening them with the m8 bolts .. so doesn’t move after tightening.

[@Reefgc]

Also I check that there is no dust against the fence and the material has a decent straight edge to reference off against the fence . I hold it securely and have tried with clamps as well.

[@ChristopherClaudioSkierka]

Hi again those rail dogs I was on about- if you know of any one that want them let me know , they do not work well with my makita track, ps I did send a message to benchdogs about it - no reply . not really impressed but not all things are suited to everyone and I am sure he just over looked my message

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Hi, Send me a copy of the email [e-mail] Cheers Andy

[@ChristopherClaudioSkierka]

@@TheWoodgrafter it's was through their internal contract page..... Anyway why? I am just giving you some feedback. Its between them and me,so I would not send to a third party.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

@@ChristopherClaudioSkierka Just that I have a relationship and I recommend the products. So if they aren’t working as they should, I want to make sure the problem is fixed. Also Ralph would want to know as well. Cheers Andy

[@ChristopherClaudioSkierka]

@@TheWoodgrafter ..... going on I think the issue is the the black rubber/foam strips that give the track grip - they are just a pinch , interfere with these track dogs. I will see (if I can be bothered messing about) if I can remove and replace them changing there position slightly - that may solve the issue of that little sudden movement it does but then you still have to push back on both to get rid of the slack.i am surprised no one else had any comments about this , perhaps the strips are not exactly universal on where they are placed - a bit random give or take 2 or 3 mm either way. If the foam ends up being too wide then I could in theory slice of a little also.

[@ChristopherClaudioSkierka]

@@TheWoodgrafter please read my previous reply I just sent. I understand you well but too many cooks spoil the broth :) . If i solve it I will let you know what I did even with some images and if you wish to share with your followers you may do so if it should help any one else with this issue ....some others may have this issue and choose to suffer in silence. I think the Festool has no obstruction on the underside ,,i think not sure never seen the underside , just a guess. Thanks and good night

[@tnabbott]

Nice commercial.

[@TheWoodgrafter]

Glad you think so!