They Might Ban Miraidon. But Why?

[@jimothycool]

Outro Music by Pete S - open.spotify.com/track/1x5XyA7jac3Hv8ha0ra76G?si=6aZiwsiVSPSCP1-Bq89b-w Jim's Good Mugs - jimothycool.com/

[@Jaydenlkm]

Iron jimilous

[@Junk_And_Junkets]

I think the link to the outro music is wrong? It brings you to a different guy called Kel James

[@gouthammahesh3298]

Zacian-c and miraidon are the kinds of mons i would have created when i was 10 or 11. Insane stats, great typing with unique STAB moves that do a crazy amount of damage with no drawbacks, compounded by an amazing ability that just buffs them even more. It's crazy to say that at least zacian-c loses the ability to carry an item, miraidon doesn't even lose that. Free 1.3x SpAtk boost + Electric Terrain boosting electric attacks with a 100 power 100 acc move. C'mon GF just turn it down a little.

[@MaahirMomtaz12]

Not even 1.3, it's actually 1.33. It's equivalent to the boost that Reckless gives

[@SolaricSage116]

I see both Koraidon and Miradon being nerfed like Zacian and Zamazenta to a BST of 650.

[@MaahirMomtaz12]

@@SolaricSage116 Or they nerf their damage boost from 33% to 20%

[@reallynotsogoldenisopod]

​@@SolaricSage116 Only if they're as OP in VGC, which is probable but never certain

[@nimbus7727]

It would’ve been interesting if it, like the other Paradox Pokémon, had an interaction with Booster Energy. Like you could either use Miraidon with an item and have a weaker ability, or use Booster Energy and have access to its current ability.

[@FarDawn-wg5sj]

Miraidon has invaded my home. I heard the sounds of a gas can and a motorcycle and investigated the garage to find a miraidon taking experimental performance enhancers. I cried "this is insane" before i was the start of their crime spree.

[@janner2006]

And you can't even pretend like it isn't there and go to sleep because it sets up Electric Terrain!

[@EnigmaticGentleman]

First time having a legendary Pokemon cause you financial harm, eh? Mega Rayquaza and Landorus T have been rampaging in my home province for the better part of a decade. At least we had some rest from Rayquaza back when Megas were deleted, but ever since they've announced Z-A Mega Ray has returned with a vengeance.

[@91Caesar]

I think ubers has 100% moved past the point where it is a proper tier that needs to be managed just like any other tier. The idea that it's a ban list first and foremost just doesn't stack up anymore. It's not just that bans have been accepted in the past, but there is even an Ubers Underused now, which emphasises how much the broader community cares about being aboe to play with these pokemon in a meta they can actually be functional in. That and the creation of Anything Goes creating a new space for 0 ban gameplay, where there is truely no tier management thanks to the absence of species, sleep, evasion etc clauses. Ubers is a mainstream tier on par with any other mainstream tier and should be managed accordingly.

[@Missiletainn]

I feel like the whole creation of Ubers UU was due to the Over management and strict banning of OU. Smogon for the next game should just start at Ubers and work their way down instead of starting at OU with Ubers nebulously above it, and trying to manage whats above and below it. It leads to this unhealthy over banning attitude which they have in gen 9.

[@Thund3rDrag0n12]

​@Missiletainn it's not smogon's fault that gamefreak keeps finding new ways to make pokemon ridiculously powerful. The desire for UUbers came from Ubers players, not from OU players At the end of the day OU is the standard tier of play and sees the most games played out of any standard format in a given generation. Starting at Ubers and working your way down would just add yet more powercreep to OU

[@azeria1]

​@@Missiletainnwhich Pokémon wouldn't you of banned then

[@azeria1]

​@@Missiletainnwhich Pokémon wouldn't you of banned then

[@jmcbango]

@@azeria1i say this any time someone complains about "overbanning." The gouging fire suspect is literally the first thats even questionable

[@calvinnguyen1870]

Don’t worry, guys. Legends Z-A will definitely introduce Miraidon’s perfect counter, Mega Clodsire, whose new ability will *kill Miraidon* upon entry

[@mentaloutonline9876]

nah bro Mega bidoof (not bibarel mind you) with an upgrade version of moody will be the first to not only counter Miraidon but will be the first to be ban from AG slas well

[@toolofthelord]

groodon primal

[@slimegante7663]

grudon primal

[@a_68_raunakroy97]

groudawn preyemul

[@CoNteMpTone]

Gwodong pimel

[@kamigami0299]

@@CoNteMpTonedewgong primal

[@danielendless]

Pokemon Z-A about to give us *Mega Blissey* Now with 230 SpD and Ice Scales

[@petrie911]

With the other 5 points used to give it 15 Def.

[@kefkapalazzo1]

Normal fairy type

[@roshanb8388]

Here's a funny calc on the speculated mega Blissey 252 SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-Attack Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ice Scales Blissey in Psychic Terrain: 93-111 (13 - 15.5%) -- possible 7HKO

[@_Rhatsody]

@@roshanb8388i vomited from how digusting this is. love it

[@GoldGuard]

@@roshanb8388Tbh I’m surprised it even cracks 10%

[@katieg1071]

I am a complete outsider to competitive Pokemon. I've been in love with the series for its ups and downs for over half my life, but playing competitive just isn't for me. I do ADORE listening to people talk about it though. You're one of those people. At this point I know more about Gen 3 OU than I know about some members of my family. So imagine me, never played a day of Gen 9 Smogon in my life, watching the community explode and things get suspected and banned every other week like some purgatorial game of Among Us. It's like watching a movie that's just a little too smart for you - you have a *basic* understanding of what's going on, and it's very entertaining even if you're not quite sure why everyone's screaming. In other words: Hi, non-competitive player here. I am eating popcorn and watching Gen 9 (mainly OU) go up in flames. Genuinely, I wish you all the best of luck.

[@itztaytay2]

There's 2 main camps of why mons are being banned atm, 1 is the classic "this mon puts too much strain on teambuilding" (like the current Miraidon suspect, the Archaludon OU ban, and as a gen 3 example the ability Soundproof forcing unoptimal whirlwind usage as an answer to full BP teams) The other main category is more exclusively a gen 9 issue, Setup sweepers that can find room to get off a move that makes them potentially sweep teams often thanks to tera. Annihilape (with bulk up and rage fist) and Espathra (with speed boost and calm mind) are good examples of mons that need to be contained quickly or else they snowball to the point of sweeping, and being able to completely change what they're weak to when they want make them much harder to handle. Tera is widely fondly viewed by the community and any support for action taken against the mechanic directly is minimal (getting 28% support for its ban this last community survey) so the bans will continue on for a while

[@angielada71]

I konw nothing about competitive i just like my Miraidon futuristic Ebike

[@wentoneisendon6502]

Groodon

[@jimothycool]

Groodon.

[@Bobopoes]

Groodon..

[@pineapple67734]

Groodon...

[@mrschrubelhupfyay6397]

Groodon....

[@bradyanderson1229]

Groodon.....

[@BossBoomBox]

The issues aren’t just the mons; it’s the broken signature abilities and signature moves that bust them. What’s Mew’s signature move or ability? Or Celebi’s signature move or ability? Sure.. Lugia and Ho-Oh got signature moves which are good, but if the moves came out in Gen 9 they’d be “Aeroblast, 110 base power, high crit rate and raises the users Sp Atk by 1” or “Sacred Fire, 95 power, 100% accuracy, 100% burn rate, super effective against Dark types”. And that isn’t even including a busted ability, or more like 2 abilities smashed into 1 ability.

[@ryans8081]

I wouldn't say it's the broken abilities as much as it is the insane speed creep in these past few gens. The reason why most boxart Ubers in previous gens had some degree of manageability, from Uber King Kyogre in Gens 3-5, to Uber King Primal Groudon in gens 6 and 7, was because they weren't very fast from the get-go. They had a lot of bulk and power but were often forced to take a hit before retaliating, and if you invested in speed you had to forgo bulk or attack power investment, but starting in Gen 8, they made Ubers that had respectable bulk, high attack, and outright insane speed stats. If Zacian-Crowned, Calyrex-Shadow, Koraidon, and Miraidon weren't so insanely fast, and were slower like previous box legendaries, they would be much, much more manageable, but that's not the case. It cannot be stressed just how important it is to go first in a game like pokemon, your speed stat literally makes or breaks your viability ~90% of the time. The only exceptions are if your other stats, typing, or movepool all suck (like Ninjask or Electrode, for example).

[@yungmuney5903]

Nah compared to Astral Barrage and Glacial lance, Collision Course and Electro Drift aren't anything that special.

[@ermindedic3706]

Their signature moves aren't that broken tbh, they are very strong, but nothing compared to stuff like astral barrage(120 base power no drawbacks) or surging strikes and wicked blow (guarnteed crits on a pokemon that hits through protect 😂)

[@lordoflocks8811]

@@ermindedic3706 well that are moves from gen 8...

[@danielendless]

If you're a Special Attacker who can brute force through Blissey, there's something wrong with you

[@henriquepacheco7473]

Part of the issue here is the Blissey nerf between generations, which makes Miraidon able to muscle past Blissey without needing a substitute since she can't even toxic anymore, but plenty of special attackers before have had ways to do it. Nasty Plot Gengar, for example, dominates the stoss/toxic/softboiled/utility move (aromatherapy or stealth rocks) set that was common in more recent gens, and so did subroost kyurem in gen 8.

[@fractalisomega9517]

Personally I like Calm mind Blissey sets

[@yungmuney5903]

Why frostbite should be in the game

[@Thund3rDrag0n12]

Adaptability Porygon-Z can OHKO max HP Blissey with Hyper Beam after a Nasty Plot

[@wonderfulrose477]

@@henriquepacheco7473MAKE BLISSEY GREAT AGAIN 🗣️🗣️🗣️

[@DerikMarquez]

They did it.

[@hurkahurk]

A nuance that I feel like you didn’t quite touch on is that primal groudon was on every team because of its insane role compression and versatility. Role compression can skyrocket the usage of a pokemon without it being a centralizing force, just like we saw with great tusk in early gen 9 ou. Often the opportunity cost of not using pdon/tusk in those situations was too high to justify. So, not only is usage not necessarily an indicator of power, it’s also not necessarily an indicator of centralization.

[@4x13x17]

And just like you saw Tyranitar in Gen 3 OU

[@rene9175]

Man, imagine if a Ground/Fairy type pokemon existed to counter Miraidon. This isn't sarcasm it would've been cool to have a pokemon to check this felonious future dragon. 😔

[@sams1000millionthaccount]

radical red milotic 😉

[@nigeltimothycruz244]

Even this wouldn't have been enough. Life Orb Solar Beam under Sun Life Orb Overheat under Sun With tera, mirai could pick the typing of either move and make them STAB Tera Blast Ice has also been used a couple times to gain bolt beam coverage

[@petrie911]

​@@nigeltimothycruz244 Being immune to both STABs means any decently special defensive stat spread can stuff Miraidon. A Ground/Fairy type Muk with an assault vest would either force a Tera or force it out, and unless you predict the switch you don't even get any damage on it. Ground/Fairy also sounds like a pretty good defensive type overall, so I bet it'd find use outside of checking Miraidon too.

[@nigeltimothycruz244]

@@petrie911 the supposed ground fairy wouldn't be an entirely self sufficient check to mirai imo. You'd probably need at least another pseudo check in case miraidon was packing coverage like the moves I listed, and another revenge killer like Scarf Korai, Zac, etc. Even without Tera, Mirai has many options against the ground/Fairy type. What's arguably stupider is that the set that got miraidon suspected to begin with is actually it's pivot set with HDB, arguably its weakest in terms of firepower. If you check the suspect thread which I emplore you to do, you'll find that even theoretically great answers like Ting Lu and Iron Treads often get used as momentum gains for the Miraidon user as well as being easily worn down by the spikes littering Ubers atm. Tldr: not even a Ground/Fairy is a one size fits all solution against Mirai, both in part due to its great coverage supported by sheer power, or it just spamming u turns letting said ground fairy get chipped by spikes while avoiding hazards itself.

[@yungmuney5903]

Or just add frostbite in the game or remove the unnecessary x1.3333 multiplier.

[@azeria1]

Almost single handley carrying future paradox reputation along with iron bundle

[@XParasiteOctoling]

It’s funny that people were saying that Koraidon was better than Miraidon now yet Miraidon is the one being tested first. I can’t say which one is better but it is interesting to think abiut

[@A_Hardy_Lopunny]

Koraidon is next, don't get it twisted haha

[@InkSams9386]

Koraidon is better,but has more set diversity and adds positive things to the metagame,while Miraidon is just electro drift goes brrrr

[@InkSams9386]

Maybe,but right now Miraidon is more valuable to get out than Koraidon.Maybe with the lack of miraidon a good counter that it's not Koraidon-specific(Great Tusk,for example) can arise and balance the metagame so Koraidon is not overbearing.

[@aaleven4728]

@@InkSams9386and most importantly. Koraidon checks are actually good Pokémon like Ho-oh and Arceus-Fairy that can do a lot of other things beside check Koraidon

[@H2Ocup]

Koraidon is more diverse, miraidon is more powerful. Koraidon cannot match the power of electro drifts from miraidon, but it is way more diverse so there's a question mark factor and can be used in a wider variety of teams. It's something like kinggambit vs great tusk in ou. Kinggambit is the more powerful one, but great tusk is wayy more versatile.

[@JP-cp9xn]

At this point they're gonna have to make an Ubers OU tier. Powercreep is crazy this gen

[@Oscar-ek2jx]

Technically regular ubers is an OU tier, since there is UUbers.

[@Shattered_Starstorm]

Eventually we're gonna have an Ubers for all the tiers: Ubers RU, Ubers NU, Ubers PU, Ubers Untiered, Ubers LC

[@SolaricSage116]

​@@Oscar-ek2jxThen Ubers should've had the tier above it below to AG. OUbers.

[@overlord3481]

​@@Shattered_StarstormAnd genesect will still be bad in all of them

[@SolaricSage116]

@@overlord3481 LMAO.

[@alex54152]

As I've always said, Miraidon Koraidon should be forced to hold the "sandwich" item to maintain their battle forms

[@brianliu4831]

“Gen 6 had balanced legendaries with designs other than brute force” xerneas and mega raquaza in the background

[@Verminator4]

I think the first example of a truly overbearing boxart legendary was most likely Xerneas in gen 6, people have forgotten how ridiculous geomancy power herb sets were back in gen 6 ubers. Even that wasn't on the level of what we've gotten in gen 8 and 9 though - at least geoxern needed a free term to set up, zacian crowned, calyrex-shadow and the dons just come in and click buttons for free

[@somebodyuknow2507]

Before ORAS released Ubers was the Xerneas tier. If there had been any precedent for AG existing (remember Mega Ray didn’t exist yet) I suspect it would have been sent there

[@fogwzu]

Say it with me guys: "This is Insane!"

[@rayanalfaraj8]

This is insane!

[@pineapple67734]

This is insane!

[@KJ-Castro]

This is insane!

[@nextella1652]

This is inane!

[@wezen89]

This is Insane!

[@Shattered_Starstorm]

Miraidon is the reason why people are afraid of advanced AI taking over the world in the future.

[@grrman]

They really need to get more tiers. There's over 1000 of these suckers now, power creep has gone way of into the deep end too.

[@josharcher2718]

100% I like using “bad” Pokémon in Nu etc but now chansey and gyarados are down in NU what chance do the old NU moms have next month PU and ZU will get crazy moms we need like 2/3 more tiers

[@grrman]

@@josharcher2718 Pretty much. It's actually ridiculous how they've not done anything to address that.

[@dylldj]

They Might Ban Miraidon before Gholdengo is banned from OU. This is insane, folks.

[@Thund3rDrag0n12]

Gholdengo honestly isn't even that bad. Like yeah it's good at what it does but there are more than enough Pokemon in their tier to threaten/check it

[@jmcbango]

Tell me you havent played OU in months without telling me...

[@waves9515]

Post elo

[@enderluckjarmg985]

I cant even tell if this satire or not are we srsly still complaining bout ghold or not

[@wonderfulrose477]

Kingambit

[@cyruscrompton8221]

Cover legendaries 2-7: I mean yeah they're amazing but they won't ruin the game 8-9: MAN WE CANT HAVE SHIT

[@esralper00]

They nerfed intrepid sword just to give a better version of it the new legendaries. An offensive boost on switch in on top of the offensive boost the terrain/weather also provides. (miraidon also gets stab boost on its terrain boosted move too). On top of that, the terrain setting also benefits absolutely bonkers pokemon like valiant and bundle too. Tera ghost encore valiant has become an amazing check to e-killer in the tier and ekiller not being able to keep miraidon in check because valiant which also benefits from miraidon has pushed miraidon to unprecedented heights. Honestly the only thing zacian has over miraidon is its typing, which is arguably the best type combo in the game, but other than that, I sincerely think miraidon is the most absurd thing game freak has released in conjunction with quark drive mons. Though I will say, it doesnt feel as overbearing as zacian was back in gen 8 because other miraidon as well as koraidon can check it, as well as calyrex-ice, which is super common in the tier right now and can survive a hit, set up trick room and ohko it and sweep the rest of the team under trick room. However, as a person that is not that high in the ladder (hovering around 1600-1700) I say bye-bye miraidon.

[@StickyTrap]

That’s it I’m busting out the Alolan muk again

[@danielotano8677]

Alolan muk explodes even with assault vest wym?

[@StickyTrap]

@@danielotano8677 it survives

[@danielotano8677]

@@StickyTrap still gets nuked in 3 hits even with max hp and max sp defense

[@muk_is_superior]

​@@danielotano8677 And 3 turns are *enough*

[@davidacus956]

I think an Uber-level threat is ban-worthy once Toyota makes a real life replica of it

[@jellybeans336]

primal gdon was centralizing but was also the glue of the meta like snorlax was in gen 3. op teambuilding glue and op teambreaking sweepers are 2 very different things

[@b1uezje]

funnily enough snorlax isn't even considered that good anymore in ADV OU.

[@stallsunguy3064]

I've gotten reqs with fashionable ease (33 games total + fourth try, first with a specific team) and all humility aside I think I've earned the rights to speak on Miraidon (sorry lmao). Miraidon's biggest problem in the metagame, in my opinion, is the fact that it's a nearly unstoppable *wallbreaker*. I've heard a lot of people complain that Koraidon, Basculegion with Last Respects, Arceus-Normal and Arceus-Ground w/Dragon Dance are better sweepers and that's true; but this is mostly Miraidon's fault. When these relatively broken cleaners and sweepers are PAIRED with Miraidon, they become twice as big of threats. This is because Miraidon applies absurd offensive pressure on every viable defensive Pokémom in the game and NOTHING walls it out. Even Ting-Lu, Clodsire, Arceus-Ground and Terastallized Ho-Oh are cleanly 1v1'd by any Miraidon set if the Miraidon player predicts properly. This, paired with the part where Miraidon has over FIVE viable sets with several variations for each of them means walling Miraidon is out the window. You CAN do it by heavily outplaying the Miraidon user, but we can't forget that said Miraidon user also has skill of their own, and if both players play on a similar level, Miraidon WILL wallbreak. And where does all of this come in with the other threats? Well, after Miraidon has blown the nearly-impossible-to-prevent hole in the opposing team, the other brokens after a single turn of setup straight up finish the battle off. It's as linear in practice as it sounds, and the only ways to prevent this outcome is to either do all of this first (roflmao balanced because both players can use it) or HEAVILY predict the Miraidon player nearly every turn. In short, checking the other broken cleaners and sweepers in the meta would be THAT MUCH easier without Miraidon's pressure on your team. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk 👍

[@a.v.y8331]

I think Koraidon has a pretty insane power level, but I don't think it's as bad as Miraidon. The average power level of Electro Drift is 100 base (133 x2 on supereffective), boosted by 30% on electric terrain, boosted again by 33% due to Hadron Engine, boosted again by 50% due to STAB, coming off a 135 base SpA. Putting that into perspective, that's equivalent to a 260 base power move, without counting stat boosts, items, tera, or effectiveness. Miraidon's power doesn't lie in its absurd damage alone, but in the fact that it's pretty much the most powerful unboosted wallbreaker to ever exist. Electrodrift spam breaks teams wide apart unless you throw out your ground type, and most ground types get torn apart by draco meteor. Its insane wallbreaking power is what allows its other sets to run so rampant, since you don't know what version of Miraidon you're getting. Miraidon wallbreaker gets OHKOed by specs bundle, but double dance miraidon tears bundle to shreds. Double dance is countered 1v1 against ting-lu, but specs miraidon with tera dragon beats up ting-lu. So on and so forth. Miraidon isn't a hyper-offense mon, even though its stats would lead you to believe so. It's the type of pokemon that has multiple different sets and multiple different modes, all of which are backed by its insane offensive power. You can run it as an offensive lead, a wallbreaker, a setup sweeper, an offensive pivot, an all-purpose offensive piece, or a lategame cleaner. The key is, these sets require different strategies and pokemon to address, and the strategies and pokemon they require are relatively niche, with few or no other applications in Ubers. The key point here, is that you don't have to build your team around Miraidon. It's just strong and hits hard and it forces your opponent to make concessions. On the other hand, Koraidon is a pokemon with more supportive potential and less offensive potential than Miraidon. That means building a team around Koraidon happens more often, and dealing with Koraidon has more applications outside of just dealing with Koraidon, since it means dealing with a strategy that centers a Koraidon. It's weird to think that dealing with 3-4 pokemon is easier than dealing with just 1, but when you build teams with certain strategies and playstyles in mind, and with countering certain strategies and playstyles in mind, taking down Koraidon teams is often much easier than taking down X team + Miraidon. It's the issue of scattered resources. If your teamstyle focuses on Koraidon as your sun-setter and offensive powerhouse, your opponent can play against that and form strategies around that. If your teamstyle has nothing much to do with Miraidon and it's just there to wallbreak and/or be an offensive powerhouse, your opponent has to spend resources on taking down your team's primary strategy AND somehow managing Miraidon in the process.

[@igeomagician]

I giggled at the skipping of gen 5 box legendaries lol

[@akshayy_xd]

The most broken thing about these two is the ridiculous 135 speed tier. Having two insanely fast box legends makes it so hard to prep for. It should have been one or the other, not both

[@yungmuney5903]

I don't mind box legends being fast as it adds more variety, Mewtwo is fast but is held back by being practically abilityless and mid typing, and Zamazenta is a tragic example. The issue is that not only they're fast, they just straight up have more firepower for no reason.

[@akshayy_xd]

@@yungmuney5903 I worded that wrong, I moreso meant the issue is that they have the same insane speed tier* so it's weird to prep for when they are both omnipresent

[@davialmeida4442]

Can’t wait for him to come to VGC. Cause, clearly, he’s very balanced

[@ric_bxrn]

Jimothy's Jamtastic Journey

[@yungmuney5903]

Jimothy's jumping jugulis

[@Culk-kb4fn]

Jimothy’s Jizzare Jadventure

[@MayHugger]

Man, out of all legendary Pokémon to get banned, why are 2 of them just a Dog with a sword and a future bike? Why couldn’t they at least have been cool or powerful lore-wise?

[@MaahirMomtaz12]

Just for clarification Koraidon got Scale Shot in DLC 1

[@BoneyGaf]

Unrelated but for some reason your videos on my phone give me KZbin premium perks of being able to play in the background or with the phone locked. So thanks. Makes listening even easier.

[@KiryuuYoshiya]

proud of my little guy for being an absolute nightmare of a pokemon. very good. you go miraidon. i love you

[@dastardlydwarf6909]

It’s miraiover

[@baller302]

finished and miraidone

[@ricardoludwig4787]

There is also precedent for exactly this having happened in national dex, miraidon was banned due to dedicated checks being hard to fit in a meta with more threats

[@IndiraDevi-yq6vm]

@jimothycool u should try ORAS Ubers.. Its a lot like ADV OU ... Xerneas in ADV Ubers have more like a million more sets than gengar in ADV OU... Ofc ORAS Ubers is fairly centralized with primal groudon being 95% mandatory but its also very diverse mon with like 6 great sets... Its very fun meta to play... Hyper offense is a bit crazy but Balance is incredible aswell...

[@jimothycool]

I like Gen 6 Ubers 😁

[@ratspew932]

It's kinda funny that Miraidon released in Pokémon Unite recently and people there are also losing their shit over how broken it is and demand bans in ranked. Which is... fair, the bike has like ~29% pickrate and ~54% winrate. So Miraidon is terrorising and raising concerns all over the Pokémon universe.

[@CaptainJLinebeck]

It's a testament to how busted Z-moves are that those caused Miraidon to get banned from Nat Dex Ubers already

[@ByrneBaby]

ngl, the power creep of gen 9 has really dampened the competitive integrity and team creativity that drew me into mons in the first place. It feels more like an arms race than a competitive meta with honor and sportsmanship.

[@sinteleon]

Ironically a more open metagame serves to make the metagame more closed.

[@K8aclysm]

Zacian -C getting a nerf to it's ability AND attack stat by a whopping **TWENTY** points and STILL being amazing is the biggest example of an overtuned pokemon that we have ever seen. Why did *anyone* think it was a good idea to give a regular-ass legendary pokemon a base 170 attack stat AND an ability that buffs it's attack on switch-in????? The only other pokemon that I think comes close to this is Urshifu, and that's *exclusively* in VGC where it just flat out ignores the rules.

[@SleepyDonnnn]

6:33 Are we just forgetting about the chokehold geomancy xerneas had on every format? Or was there a bunch of counterplay back then too?

[@Shadow-Joop-157]

If miraidon can be used in vgc the future paradox mons are going to become ridiculously strong. Most future mons have good offense but the problem is that Electric Terrain is very difficult to set up. With miraidon that is no longer a problem

[@itztaytay2]

Weather not overwriting terrain will also make for somewhat limited counterplay lol, we might see an even bigger increase in Rillaboom usage or even Prankster manual terrain to help answer it. Terapagos can also erase the terrain once w/tera but it'll probably be on the rarer side since it essentially requires to be tera'd, is generally much weaker than the boxarts, and doesn't have any team synergy.

[@Shadow-Joop-157]

@@itztaytay2 Iron Boulder will probably see much more use. The problem with Iron Boulder is that he doesn't have enough speed to make good use of his Mighty Cleave move. With miraidon that will probably no longer be a problem. Iron Hands and especially Iron Bundle mons that were already strong will probably be pushed over the edge

[@briangoulet948]

The miraidon suspect is interesting, because I think the majority of people recognize that koraidon is actually better then miraidon. However koraidon offers a lot more utility and actual value to the tier making it more fun to play while miraidon is not very divisive in terms of people disliking it

[@elianwyn]

I find it a huge bummer that Miraidon just unquestionably power creeps Zekrom in virtually every way considering it can even deal with Blissey and other special walls with the sheer power of its special STABs. I feel like game freaks devs have lost track of speed stats in particular. I don't feel like Zacian or the bike duo deserve or even look like they should have the speed stats they do.

[@Wayte13]

It almost sounds like the big issue isn't necessarily the brute force. It's the brute force on a mon that can also just "lol pivot" if you do manage to check it. You can't have raw power like that without the downside of commitment, because it needs to be punishable to be fair

[@jaimeXDgo]

While it's undeniable that Miraidon is insane, all the banning and sussing that happens every other day in Smogon is making me think those guys hsve grown too sensible. But yeah, back in the day, legendaries were made fun broken, not insanely broken. They're taking the power creeping incentives too far, it's like they think that buffed mons are a very reliable way of attracting fans of the saga who want the appeal of playing the newer stuff.

[@kayoh9364]

I used to dislike how Jimothy pronounced Groudon. But it grewed on me.

[@91Caesar]

I don't know much about the meta where Groudon primal was so dominate but I vaugly recall it had a lot of role compression going for it didn't it? It countered the a lot of the other top tier Ubers and if those top tier ubers weren't prominent then groundon primal probably wouldn't have been either.

[@drxavier1870]

What a coincidence that this happens right when Miraidon gets added to Pokemon Unite, another game where it destroys most competition as a high damage attacker

[@Seth_rs]

Agree wi5 you but minimizing how broken gen 6 cover legends is insane, geomancy xerneas was unmatched, then primal groudon came in and checked it but if it was in this gen that would be banned

[@hanswurst9120]

My slow af phone: Rhydon might be getting banned from Gen 9 Ubers, folks.

[@craniifer]

Top-notch thumbnail.

[@jesuisunstroopwafel]

I love how Iron Bundle was one of the best Miraidon checks by benefiting from the latter's Hadron Engine.

[@hiimemily]

Honestly, I've thought that Miraidon would be on the chopping block since the games first dropped, and I'm shocked it's taken this long.

[@eternalnos2179]

Petition to rename Anything Goes to: Trubers

[@apiratcc]

If Miraidon really get banned. Koraidon will follow soon enough.

[@pancakeandwaffle4849]

Koraidon being arguably better but escaping by being more support oriented:

[@sekaihunter9378]

Kingambit being arguably better but escaping by being more support oriented:

[@shearman360]

Iron Mugulus being arguably better but escaping by being more support oriented:

[@itztaytay2]

The big reason why this suspect is happening is because Miraidon's answers are ultraspecific and only really brought to answer Miraidon, thus adding a lot of strain on teambuilding and making it unhealthy. Koraidon is also incredibly busted but its best answers also help check other key threats in the tier like Zac-C and NDM, so it's a lot easier to account for, and it may still be too much lol

[@willl6317]

Personally, the fact that the majority of the future paradox pokemon don't have any ideal teammates outside of thundurus to set electric terrain has been disappointing to say the least. I've strictly played doubles in game on Violet and am looking forward to seeing a creative core come from Miraidon. As with all cores, there will be a way to counter it. Kind of like how we saw this Articuno-Ninetails combo win a tourny. In time there will be innovation in team building to make the Miraidon player question what they choose to do instead of just clicking electro drift and the occasional draco meteor to nuke everything. Thank goodness we aren't dynamaxing Miraidon. I have this strange feeling these Legends games will introduce us to new versions of our old favorite Pokemon that will provide new unique strategies. I've personally found success with Mirror Coating a Miraidon with Arboliva and OHKOing the electric lizard boi. I think the challenge is that we can Tera defensively and this is what makes it way more threatening. Playing in previous gens, it's crazy that I no longer have to guess if the opponent is JUST a grass type. I do enjoy the tera mechanic despite this.

[@kumoko3728]

At this point ubers isnt a banlist anymore

[@mintx1720]

The create a pokemon better than Kyogre but not broken challenge is literally impossible for gamefreak lmao Anyway I think without the miraidon speed tie, Korai will probably go with it too.

[@jmcbango]

Still speed ties with flutter mane 👀

[@mintx1720]

@@jmcbango In pracise korai doesn't care about this speed tie as much since korai's default tera type is fire, which does not help against mirai but destroys flutter and bundle.

[@ThisIsntAYoutuber]

If Miraidon gets banned… will Koraidon follow shortly after? Last time I heard both of them were considered ridiculous but Koraidon was slightly behind.

[@krest7575]

Koraidon I would argue is the better pokemon compared to miraidon but miraidon brings nothing good to Ubers, it’s just a really overpowering wallbreaker that makes ground types mandatory, and most of the ground types are not that good. Koraidon is a better sweeper and can be just as good of a wallbreaker with scale shot SD LF but koraidon has the best speed control ever in Ubers. Fast pokemon like fluttermane zacian deoxys A, scarf kyogre, miraidon or basculegion agility and opposing koraidon get checked by scarf koraidon, plus it has sun as a utility which not only activates paradox mins abilities or grass type abilities but also stops kyogre from wrecking Ubers with tera water rain water spout. Simply without koraidon Ubers would be such a mess even tho it is the strongest in the tier. Miraidon is very close tho and if you removed it from Ubers, the tier wouldn’t destabilise. But say you get rid of last respects and miraidon then it’s definitely good to ban koraidon to AG, as at this point any team can be run on Ubers without restrictions

[@aero6104]

Is an overcentralizing pokemon in Ubers really that bad? Hasn't this happened before without a ban?

[@broidkanymore-zc4lt]

primal groudon flashbacks

[@cadesummers5866]

Please king, I beg of you, theorycraft your own meta game- save us Jimothy

[@The_Jho]

We need ultra necrozma and the primals back, it’s the only way to balance the new ones and totally not ones I want back just because they were some of my favorite designs

[@AI-DreigonGPT]

Arceus really watched Miraidon deep in his eye and said "You were a mistake." 🥶

[@XC11301991]

Watch, Miraidon ban will just make Koraidon just be that more dominant and it will get tested for a ban too...All this still before Kingambit or Gholdengo get banned in OU.

[@JonTheGamerGuru]

I think Ubers should avoid banning if they can, which only speaks to how incredibly strong Muraidon is if they want it banned.

[@matthewhobelman7227]

Who gonna tell Jimothy about power herb geomancy xerneas?

[@kefkapalazzo1]

Zacian was the worst offender to me. Best typing, good enough moves, damn near the fastest thing in the format, damn near deoxys A attack that gets boosted every time it gets in, and too bulky for how strong and fast it was.

[@sreenaths6829]

It had 170 attack AND a free plus one attack boost at all times! It made Deo-A look like an RU mon by comparison lol

[@oracle0_]

I personally think it would have been cool if Koraidon and Miraidon got terastal forms. Like if it was the bike form in battle with a ~600 BST, and either drought/electric surge or the respective paradox abilities, but when terastalized they would get their signature abilities and their base stats they currently have, as well as changing into the “battle” form. This might make them more restricted, forcing a Tera to do really well. It would also make Miraidon much better than koraidon, as it would be locked into Tera electric, while koraidon would be locked into Tera fighting, or both could be forced Tera dragon to keep them equal, idk.

[@darko-man8549]

this pokemon was just like someone answered "yes" to "what shall we give this pokemon?"

[@LightningMcCream]

I believe it was BKC who said we might need to rethink what we classify as "Ubers" and "OU". The idea being that in Gen 1, Ubers was the ban list. Where now Ubers is not 1 but 3 different Tiers (UUbers, Ubers and Anything Goes) This generation has had powercreep like nothing else, the fact that Deo-S and Darkrai have fallen to OU should show us that maybe "Ubers staples" are actually just OU mons and maybe the insane amount of bans should have instead been bringing Uber threats down to OU. #MakeUbersABanListAgain

[@jmcbango]

Im sorry but I dont think mons like Palkia-O, Magearna, Chi-Yu, and some of the lesser Arceus forms are preferable for standard tournament play. I understand the sentiment, but what is the downside to how its being handled now? Theres a lot of bans? What does that matter if all of the bans have made the OU tier more competitive? The old argument was that the OU bans dont cut it in Ubers and fall into obscurity, but thats wholly invalid now that Ubers UU exists

[@turtlenator6249]

If I had to take a guess on how Miraidon (and/or Koraidon) get nerfed in the future, I imagine it would be either 1. Remove the attack boost from their abilities, or 2. Make it so they can only set the weather/terrain once per battle.

[@jayrome1884]

I'm not debating on the fact that current days box art legendaries are very overpowered in a 6 vs. 6 format, but I'm fairly certain that Game Freaks doesn't care about these considerations when they design their Pokémon, the official format is VGC that's what they have in mind when they design a Pokémon IMO. And you can't debate the synergy that the Gen 9 legendaries offer with the Paradox Pokémon of their respective versions, I think the end result is exactly what they wanted.

[@TheRealLifeNuzlocke]

I like miraidon. But it genuinely is absurdly powerful. Without tera It'll probably be fine in the future. But now there are too many sets and Tera types to account for.

[@MapleLunii]

This is insane.

[@MegaSpamziken1996]

Now imagine if they gave him Rising Voltage-

[@yungmuney5903]

Man that would really suck, having a terrain spawning Uber is such a sick idea, shame how GF couldn't just use the existing feature they already had in electric surge so instead they HAVE to go overboard with it cause they couldn't just help themselves with power creeping. Now the bike lizards just end up being lame cause 'haha click button and thing die' and the future paradoxes will have nothing else going for them anymore besides big numbers and booster energy.

[@coconut_tv0564]

I mean Miraidon is Ag in gen 9 national dex so it's honestly not suprising that Miraidon will be banned into Ag.

[@pointynives]

I am usually against the idea of banning from ubers but at this point there's so many pokemon in ubers and pokemon design has gotten that completely fucked that why not at this point?

[@urnanaman]

Me ride on these-

[@GeorgeDCowley]

1:50 Besides giving it an unusually low BST. Isn't it qu-ar-k? I think it's an accent thing. Miraidon's the first base form to be an Anything Goes candidate.

[@Lykon]

So ban it because you don't like using its checks? How is it different from DP Darkrai or Kyogre? I remember running Primeape and Shedinja to counter them

[@oscen335]

There is a difference between running a niche but genuinely good Pokemon to gain a unexpected leg up on your opponent and using a shitmon that cant even switch safely and will die to the other 5 members of its team

[@diegoxavier9107]

6:27 COUGHxerneasCOUGH

[@pnx073]

the fact that it also has u-turn instead of getting stuck with just volt switch tells you how much the devs want it to be overpowered

[@That_One_Guy-.]

Can’t wait for AG UU

[@GentlemanBones]

Ultimately, the game should be something that people will want to play. As long as we're structuring our own rules, then things that overly centralize the fan-created metagame should be taken into account, and when necessary, locked up for gamer crimes. Smogon can't take on-cart casual ladder from you, but they can give you a more fun alternative.

[@1020percent]

Decided to play with the calculator. Tera dragon 36SpA life orb Draco meteor from Miraidon always OHKOS 252/252+ AV Mega Ray 😂 obviously a nonsense calculation but that power level is absurd

[@GeorgeDCowley]

A super-effective move oneshots? Wow. I know it's Assault Vest, but still.

[@ellytrabread]

Pokemon feeling the need to give us a new Anything Goes member each Gen Gamefreak is so generous

[@aldrichunfaithful3589]

i dont play the format but every time i've dabbled in it makes me feel totally fine with banning miraidon, its the standard modern design philosophy where you give a pokemon one job but give it every tool it could ever want to do that while blowing through any counter, and in this case it's taken to such a stupid level that even similarly overtuned threats can't check it or even compete with its offensive pressure. the sad thing is that the roles these pokemon fill are genuinely interesting, they're fast wallbreakers where koraidon is a triple stab coverage machine who applies pressure to set up or wins through predictions with choice band, and miraidon plays for the classic electric spam nightmare where you wear down the ground type until your volt switch is unstoppable, i love that. the problem is that these pokemon have offensive stats and abilities that make kyogre and groudon look like jigglypuff, and every single potential counter can either be broken through with the raw power of tera, or gamefreak gave these mons exactly the tools they need to beat them 1v1. and as if that wasn't enough they have spectacular defensive stats and typings giving them many opportunities to switch in or set up. take scale shot away from koraidon, take miraidon's parabolic charge away, potentially ban tera, then take like 20-30 points from all their defensive stats, and finally just give them drought and electric surge instead of their bs, and now you have two spectacular pokemon who fill unique roles and add to the competitive experience, but that's such a stupidly long list of problems to the point where whatever positive impact they could've had doesn't really matter

[@Gold-Dango]

Miraidon shld be banned but i think koraidon shld just stay for a bit just to see if it is too centralizing. Miraidon is a threat with a lot of ways to beat so called checks like sub calm mind for blisseys etc, and calling for a miraidon check after knowing that you need a check for koraidon and zacian crowned is a bit insane

[@gamedominatorxennongdm7956]

The thing with Koraidon is that its checks are easier to fit on a team, Ho-oh for example could wall it reliably because the only reliable coverage for it is thunder punch, other than that most of your attacking Moves are neutral or not very effective, so unless you use the loaded dice variant and have managed to setup you're not getting anywhere.

[@kool-aidman6955]

They should remove the bike lizards’ ability to boost their respective attack and special attack stats while their abilities are active. I did the math, and hadron engine as well as orichalcum pulse give them an artificial base 196 in their respective attacking stats. To put that into perspective, mega mewtwo y has a base 194 in special attack, but it was locked into a mega stone and had clear, exploitable weaknesses. These abominations on the other hand have virtually no counter play. That said, lowering their power would be a great start.

[@jmcbango]

Itll probably happen next gen like with zacian/zamazenta. I could see a nerf down to 1.2x or less

[@toxic0470]

The number i got was 180, what maths were you doing?

[@yungmuney5903]

​​@@toxic0470 Actual stats, not base stats. They surpass the mega mewtwos.

[@toxic0470]

@@yungmuney5903 with their actual stats you don't get any comparable pokemon stat, so my question still stands just in the other direction, what kinda maths is the OP doing?

[@Mingha0]

@@toxic0470Abilities multiply the gain from EV’s, not just base stats. It’s why azumarill has an effect base 154 attack (or something like that,) not 100.

[@RealShades7]

Average gen 9 powercreep