This Avoidable Mistake Has Damaged Forza Motorsport

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

Quite enjoy doing the odd online race in this , though 60fps is crap and the lack of lock to horizon cam filter is pure motion sickness - I think forza is way better to drive than GT7 certainly more dynamic and fun to drive better FFB regardless rest of the game is not ready and i think only gets a pass due to console gamers being so accepting of being treated badly by publishers due to a lack of choice.

[@MarquisDeSang]

I don’t get it, I race online at 97 FPS

[@KalElRedK]

@@MarquisDeSang What is your monitors refresh rate? Because I read that the fps cap increases with higher refresh rates.

[@JPKelly-xr7tr]

"...gets a pass due to console gamers being so accepting of being treated badly by publishers due to a lack of choice." Nonsensical statement. Gets a 'pass' from who, exactly - ? By this metric console gamers are indirectly responsible for the issues you outlined (which I agree with) because of lack of choice in game titles - ? The responsibility for bad game design rests solely with publishing companies / developers - not - the consumer. The consumer is responsible for due diligence and making informed choices when purchasing titles. The only way to break the current video game business model is for consumers to stop pre-ordering titles.

[@MarquisDeSang]

@@KalElRedKI have a ultrawide 21:9 144hz

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

I think we generally agree to be honest. Games gets a pass from console gamers that have no other racing games to play and have been told over and over again by publishers and marketing that 60fps is a great smooth and modern experience. The bar is way lower on console than it is on pc so developers (publishers) get away with more even though publishers can still make huge profits and probably more profit by not lowering the bar. Yes console gamers buying games that are progressively worse are responsible ( second to publishers taking the piss) the only way things change is when there is massive backlash from it like for example with the most recent battle field game. though fact is BF games got worse and worse mostly due to EA being able to lower the bar exploiting the less critical console market. Its like how mobile games can be super crappy due to average user being super young kids that don't know anny better and can be exploited to buy keys and microtransactions for utterly usless soless things. @@JPKelly-xr7tr

[@LeoDavidson]

They have to do this when the publisher's demanding a version that can be sold for €100, even if the game is trash. Whole industry needs a reset at this point.

[@alandanielsaucedo5066]

It’s all up to us, we vote with our wallets.

[@disinque6961]

​@@alandanielsaucedo5066unfortunately there will always be people that pay anyway..... and the publishers will blame it on the dev when they cant sell the games at ridiculous prices then the devs get fired

[@LeoDavidson]

@@alandanielsaucedo5066 I'm doing my part! :D Heh. But seriously, I probably would have paid that much money if it was a good game. I'm in the mindset that I've spent so much on sim-racing hardware that there's no reason to be cheap with the software. Only if it's actually good and worth playing instead of another game, though!

[@robinv1485]

That's the thing with simracers, they are the whales of these games. You can literally make them pay 100x more than casual players. So even if they are less and a more niche market, it can still be profitable. As long as you do it properly with quality content both will be happy. But nop, they aren't doing it. Tbh voting with your wallet won't work. Idk why people keep pushing this narrative, gaming has changed forever. You have other similar industries you can take a look at to see what happened on the long term when they became more business and less art form, the most close to it would be the movie industry. There's people that wrote whole essays on this and predicted exactly how gaming would be today, 20 years ago, just because it's that obvious when it's a repeating process throughout different industries. The minority just can't have an effect on it anymore. Just how movies turned out to release crap after crap with the occasional golden egg every few years, that's the reality of gaming now as well, the golden years are over. Products made to make money, projects that are run by people out of popularity or nepotism, not talent, etc. That's already a reality and it's bound to get worse, not better. @@LeoDavidson

[@whateverfffs]

An avoidable mistake is getting to the point after 4 minutes.

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

There is no point

[@whateverfffs]

​@@GamerMuscleVideosFair enough.

[@MarquisDeSang]

The main problem is that all my wheel settings (input settings) key map get lost every time I boot the game.

[@ROLLINGFANATICS]

Sad part, same thing happen with fh5 , and that issue took almost 2 years to finally fix . I really hope this isn’t the case here . So annoying booting up a race just to be sent into the wall for no inputs

[@MarquisDeSang]

@@ROLLINGFANATICSI had the exact same problem with rFactor2, AMS2 And Project Cars

[@MrKrampyHands]

I only have to re input steering that's it everything else stays

[@OutLanderUSN]

This is a fundamental problem across the industry. Too many devs are being made to do too much and they can't place enough focus on any one aspect during the initial dev cycle to make it enjoyable, but the money hungry suits keep pushing it because we as a community keep buying the shiny turds despite knowing they're shiny turds, so the suits have no real incentive to change what is happening because they're fleecing the herd regardless.

[@neilsimmons9582]

I bought but returned

[@Metsudo82]

Car leveling has killed my desire to play this game completely (and I'm a massive forza fan). Last night, while online with my friends we wanted to have an A class rivals event. I had to waste 3 hours unlocking not even all the upgrades just so I could take my S2000 to A class. Every time we want to do anything like this, we have to waste multiple hours driving in circles just to do what would have taken less than a minute in all the previous games. I refuse to waste hours of my life every time I want to even just TRY a build on a car. There ae 500+ cars, that's what 1500+ hours just to be able to try building the cars (i.e. not even time tuning, just unlocking the damn right to even try a build!) This game will be dead in months if this doesn't change. Custom community events are effectively dead.

[@kireta21]

Luckily for me game was on gamepass, so I didn't buy prem edition right away, as I did with every Forza before, only to discover a grindwall that ended up killing my motivation to play.

[@marquisegoodwin2481]

Agreed.. I just hope we get frequent updates to keep up with our complaints..

[@noemfie]

Agree with what you saying , enjoying MP way more than SP in Forza Motorsport atm , there are many bugs and things that can improve as well , but what gives me hope for FM is that I kind of see it as a racing platform like when iracing launched , there won't be another FM game in the next 8 years or so , so the developers have a pretty decent base to build on from now going into the next few years just as iracing been doing for plenty of years now. Expecting(hoping) for many physics updates, gameplay changes, AI improvements, new cars and tracks to be added in the coming years.

[@benn87]

The problem with the forza career is that this bonding with a car doesn't really work as the developers have advertised. Before you have fully upgraded a car, the championship is already over and you need a new car for the next one. And I certainly don't run a championship several times just to upgrade one car.

[@bosneb]

The new upgrade system also takes any personal flavor out. In old Forza games I would tend to try to dump as much weight and put tires on as my first upgrades. Some cars would require more power and not as much weight reduction/tires, and I had the meta game of figuring that out. In new Forza, every car starts with 1 level of exhaust and air filter, as that's all you can ever afford, then pretty much identical upgrades to every other car as I progress because they all unlock at the same level gates. It is quite dumb and boring.

[@benn87]

@@bosneb In the second championship, I already caught myself not upgrading my car directly, but saving the points because my preferred update was not yet available. That's really stupid.

[@revanthvadlamudi]

​@@benn87 You can remove parts and recover all the points back to use for different parts. You don't need to save points -- the more you level a car the more points you have to allocate to whatever parts. It works okay but you get points too slowly, and it's a miss that we don't have more parts that are unlocked by default to begin with. And some upgrades just cost absurdly high points.

[@HollisonHusky]

Woah, woah. WOAH. Now I can be patient with many things. However DO NOT start insulting chip shop mushy peas! They are sacred, they are hallowed, and they are a god tier extra to ANY fish and chips meal. They even improve the often mediocre SAUSAGE and chips, being able to smush a load of peas on top of a dried out sausage with bad quality batter makes even the worst made, and even the sausage that's been sitting in the cabinet all day taste so much better. You sir, are on very thin ice, and I advise you bite your tongue or mind your words when you are talking about such a sacred side piece! If you want to take a dump on anything from a fish and chip shop, it should be the beans!

[@BOKtober]

Forza Motorsports multiplayer is how GT7 multiplayer should be structured. In GT7 there’s only 3 different races for the whole week, you only qualify once and you can enter the race with that time for the whole week. Forza Motorsport has 3 categories with 4-6 races each, plus qualifying for every race each time

[@scottd7222]

Let's see how populated they are in 3 months

[@simracingchannel7691]

I really like the track rotation. Keeps it refreshing instead of lapping the same circuit the whole day.

[@hammer86_]

That's a good way to fragment the community and have small grids.

[@simracingchannel7691]

@@hammer86_ you dont get to choose the races/tracks they rotate. The weather and time of day is random to so really allot of variation

[@tdurb0]

I love your analogy of fish and chips 😂 A teaspoon of sewage in a barrel of wine = a barrel of sewage. Also I’m drinking Earl Grey today. Do I win £5?

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

You win the glory of tea sipping

[@jamesp1389]

Hahahahahaha I cracked up

[@chedhead3278]

Clearly the avoidable mistake is letting GM play your game. Ban this man immediately. And drink coffee.

[@lefttoe6969]

My mind/heart/ass is torn... I do enjoy watching your videos while slurping macchiato armed with a few drops of amaretto...

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

I bought a coffe mechine so i let you off

[@lefttoe6969]

@@GamerMuscleVideos I have installed my brand new Jura machine literally an hour ago :D

[@FreakyLeek]

My free jumbo sausage that I did not order with my fish and chips was a turd?! Ah dammit

[@th3orist]

Diablo 4 would be another great example of how you simply add so much crap to the game that it becomes tedious and boring.

[@Daz555Daz]

What's weird is that iRacing which is focused on the pure online experience has also managed to craft amazing single player AI that as far as I can tell most players don't use much.

[@vstaritz]

No one really uses them because you have to purchase a subscription to play them. When you do that you might as well just do the multiplayer. iR could really work on their monetization model. It's pretty egregious to me that i own a ton of iR content and have been a intermittent member for close to decade and i can't enter a single player practice or AI session with my purchased content without having to pay for online services. People who really enjoy AI racing spend most of their time with the legacy sims like rF2 or AC.

[@SupernovaeTech]

​@@vstaritzAgreed iRacing should have a pseudo RaceRoom style model where it's free to download but you have to pay for all additional content. Unlike R3E I think iRacing could turn charge for multiplayer. The main reason I've never gotten into iRacing is that I can't access any content over paid for without a subscription. If you could face the AI without a subscription I'd be far more likely to buy into the ecosystem.

[@TheRobphobos]

Well said GM ! The parallels between AAA games and film/tv is the same. Once the money berks are involved, it quickly becomes diluted peepee. I won't bother installing FM8 as I only play sim racing in VR however, I like what you explained in regards to their online racing aspect. They did something similar in the past with FM5 or 6, it was really good fun.

[@simracingchannel7691]

I play sims in VR in the sim rig to but this game is perfect for playing on the couch with the controller. I am having tons of fun playing it like a simcade. The controller works really well.

[@RotGoblin]

These are the rants we follow GM for... Also, down with mushy peas.

[@Wizerud]

Mushy peas is literally warm green shit. Correct.

[@mitchell-wallisforce7859]

The problem goes deeper. Forza Motorsport being a list of features rather than a cohesive experience isn't just its _own_ problem. It's EVERYONE'S problem. Burnout 3 gets more love in a day than FM8 will ever get on its day of days because it had a vision. Gone are the days of games as art - art with a goal or a vibe or a story to tell. Welcome to the era of games as a profit device. Add this to the list of bodies desecrated by capitalism...

[@clarkduffy7573]

Oi, I live in Birmingham!

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

My condolences.

[@angryginger791]

This is a marketing and sales tactic that works especially well with video games. You cram a bunch of crap into a game and make it look great in trailers and ads. Then by the time anyone figures out that it's trash, you already have their money. To keep them from returning it, you promise them DLC and updates to fix what is missing or they don't like. Then the return period expires and it's up to you to decide if you want to follow through with the updates or not. Everyone knows this, yet people still pre-order games and buy on day one. That may have been necessary when games came on discs or cartidges, because they actually sold out, but now it's just impatience. If you want better games, vote with your wallet.

[@channelvr1293]

Luckily I'm not a idiot subscriber so I muted the video so I couldn't hear you ranting about fish&chips...etc.... so I put my own voice over this video....much better 👍😉

[@iulian2548]

This goes for most games these days. ACC for example needed more than 3 years to come up with an acceptable physics engine, and it still lags behind rF2 without assists. Most games nowadays are launched in beta phase.

[@bernardausterberry9795]

For the most part I agree on all counts. I'm in the work on the AI & career camp. Mostly because racing against humans is like banging your head against the wall, it only feels good when you stop.

[@JallyTee]

If you play on PC and have a wheel I would highly recommend rFactor2 or race room, you can find some genuinely good online racing

[@kinghell9061]

Has there been a lot of great sim/ish/cade games I've missed that is warranting all this negativity on Motorsport? Or is this just the new YT click meta? Having played and bounced off PC2, Grid, GT7 etc this seems to be easily the best attempt yet to fill that middle ground. Looks and feels best, inspite of itself and the 'issues'. The major issue is the car levelling, it is at odds with everything else in the game. The AI needs work in areas, lighting/gfx are flat in certain conditions, and more tracks are definitely needed... but these should all get fixed. If they can get the levelling system out of peoples way, so folk can focus on the multiplayer and rivals, then all will be good. I mean, that's all these games are after the first 2 weeks anyway, career just breaks you in.,, and tbh career is fun enough, set your own challenge and go. it's a car game, what other car games careers are doing something different? What more does it need to do? Race, do more racing, race some more... all very convenient, as that's why I'm here. If improvements are made and tracks drop every month or 2, I will remain very happy with FM.

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

The fact that lots of modern driving games are worse than racing games from 10+ years ago certainly warrents people not just bending over and accepting it. No its not a "you tube meta" pointing out very obvious issues with games , the youtube meta for making money is being overly positive and sucking up to publishers and the fan bases of games as that makes way way way more money than being critical. the concept of paying 50+ for a AAA title published by a platform owner that still needs updating to run stable , save settings, have properly working AI and just be a basic game , is prity mad. But look how accepting of it people are , they are treating MS as if they are a small Indy studio, no wonder the publishers don't care and treat the players like free alpha testers.

[@kinghell9061]

@@GamerMuscleVideos Maybe I'm just not as sensitive to the problems you mention, but I don't think that's it, as the criticisms you claim could be levelled at any game of this type, to much worse degrees, they're just what these games are. In terms of how broken it is, FH5 multiplayer was borked for months on launch (if I remember right). In FM I can race multiplayer, save a replay, watch it and see all the cars abducted by aliens. A game that's completely playable at launch is hitting a high bar these days, and this one does that. I'm seeing a game that is already the best game of its type (Grid, GT7 etc), at launch, definitely with some issues to improve on. What I don't get is why the knives are out big time for the smallest things, for non-issues or issues that have persisted forever in racing games. I'm not seeing anything that is 'horrendously bad'... I only see car levelling as a decision that was implemented 'horrendously bad'-ly, some bugs, an AI that needs to get smarter in areas, and a some graphical misstep here and there. I'm not saying don't expect more or not to make the criticisms. I just think the criticism are more than a tad hyperbolic and are becoming the whole story. I genuinely don't see problems to attribute words like 'horrendously' to, the game is good... it's great!... but maybe I'm not seeing what you see, another dude mentioned passing all the AI cars off the start line at the hardest difficulty, that sounded batshit implausible to me. Either you are both waaaaaaay better than me, and I'm sure you are both better, I'm only pretty good, emphasis on pretty, or your experience/AI is different some how. Regarding negativity clicks - They certainly are a meta throughout media. Facebook is built on them, Twitter and the mainstream media/IGN survive on them... not saying it's you, just asking the question due to not understanding the hate boner... semi. I'm an infrequent GMV viewer, but I have appreciated your reviews in the past. Balanced and amusing.... like a gibbon on a tightrope.

[@marquisegoodwin2481]

Agreed GM.. GT Sport set the Bar for Sim racing multiplayer.. iracing’s problem is, there are far too many options, leaving most of the Contant neglected for what people believe are popular disciplines like the notorious GT3. I really like how GT sport and Forza give you a few Car discipline options and track rotation is more frequent.

[@torque2802]

Agreed, too many racing sims these days are just lifeless sandboxes. Lots of cars and tracks but no structure to actually use them. BeamNG sorts this with scenarios to use them and more racing games need to expand on this idea. It's not about how much content you have it's about how you use it. I'm glad ACC succeeded because it shows you don't need every car class from throughout history to make a good game. You just need to do a core thing really really well, and give people a built in platform to compete with

[@burdineestep4224]

Like f'n Hot Air Balloons, been to 200+ live races all over the world and NEVER have seen One. Haven't seen a "turd" on a fish & chips plate either - but a " great" example. Keep up the great work. Got a cuppa right now.

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

balloons are next gen get with the times old man

[@VariantAEC]

Gran Turismo started this. Circuit racing in street-legal cars. 200 cars, yes, the first Gran Turismo had over 200 cars! They started that. Wet track racing, dirt racing, racing at night... all on PS1 all in GT1, GT2 introduced dirt races to the franchise. Snow and rally racing in GT3 and 4 introduced drift events. GT5 introducing drag racing dynamic ToD and weather with GT6 adding more premium quality cars, moon driving events (seriously), and improving their rendering engine (which was already top notch) by leaps and bounds. GT Sport stripped everything back to focus exclusively on competitive online racing. GT Sport's single player campaign had all the depth of GTHD Concept on PS3 (if anyone - besides me - remembers that free demo/game). GT PSP was a glorified companion app for GT5 and had a better single player campaign than what GT Sport launched with! But GT Sport wasn't GT[insert number here], it was a different game with a different focus. Meanwhile GT7 brought most of GT4-6's stuff back, we can race in the dirt at night in the rain as the clouds, sun, and stars slip by overhead. We have drag and drift events back, too, all on better-looking tracks with the best racing game rendered graphics on consoles at native 4K 60FPS (in gameplay). All that while GT7 enhanced its simulation engine even more allowing wind to affect car handling and performance. What is Assetto Corsa: Competizione's excuse? Small team; way less time to make game. ...That's at least an ok excuse. What is Forza Motorsport (2023)'s excuse? [T10 defense force left the chat] That's what I thought. Formula 1 has focused on F1 racing (for the most part) and that's fine. You don't see WRC pushing many new modes and NASCAR licensed gamss aren't covering Indy car racing (often, I swear there was one game). The point is, FM is a GT clone it came later as Xbox was still developing and the big wigs saw GT was really successful so they formed Turn 10 which created Forza Motorsport by design.

[@marquisegoodwin2481]

for anyone who reads this, is there a fix for multiple USB devices? I have a DD Wheel with separate paddles, and a separate wheel.rim. everything registers when binding each configuration.. once I’m in game I can do everything but shift gears, look left and right and I can’t change the camera view.

[@theoracleprodigy]

Agree 100%. Even watching your video I was cringing on how often AI bumps into you and other cars. It seems better than it was in the past but still bumper cars... So often games are trying for the feature list and not focused on just making a good game.

[@marcowong1436]

This virtual steering wheel doesn't even rotate around the center 😥

[@xX_Gravity_Xx]

That's just sad.

[@rainey06au]

Fun fact.. Many cars actually dont. Some are angled and offset.

[@marcowong1436]

@@rainey06au But not this car 🫠

[@brilongenecker]

Just watching this it looks like the cars drive like they are on ice. Maybe it's just the visual, but looks like the cars are just slipping and sliding constantly.

[@SingleRacerSVR]

HEY GM!!!, what's with the opening line "Hello Beautiful Tea-Drinkers". What about us ugly coffee drinkers? (ohhh, hang on, maybe that's just me?). Anyway - you can't go discriminating on half of us KZbin'eit's, so get your act together please Mr GM, hahahahaha. Great rant by the way, expect for the fact that is doesn't now sound like a "game" I'll be purchasing any time soon. ; (((

[@Lovi07]

Bald man rambling for 13:49! My favourite kind of video.

[@vstaritz]

I don't think FM8 is actually a fully thought out game. Not in the sense that they didn't do a good enough job with the design, but in the sense that it was not actually meant to be at all. At least not in 2023. It doesn't take 5-6 years to make a slight revision of multiplayer systems that heavily rely on established design already, and then some modicum of graphics and tech development, accompanied by severely cut content of which a large portion is ported. It's aggressively average. Like it's meant strictly for complete newcomers, or they are operating with the mindset that FM fans have been left dormant for all this time and will happily just take a downgrade for 69.99 and be fine with it. The reality here is this game is probably a 2 year job, with a skeleton crew that is otherwise busy with who knows what else. It's fodder for Gamepass to justify it's incoming price increase and no effort was put in it. They're going to react at some point "addressing the criticism" and say that it's a "work in progress" and will get support for 10 years or something to appease the rabble but really there's no good excuse for this product in this state. Forza Motorsport 7 was delisted from the Microsoft Store in 2021, make of that what you will.

[@dodge33cymru]

This is what killed the Project Cars games IMO. Very ambitious, tried to do a load of things but couldn't complete them all and/or make them all work together.

[@lavachemist]

I'd feel better about the game if the out of the box FFB made any sense at all. The Advanced Input menu seems like Turn 10 decided to offload that particular part of the game development onto the end user, because most players will be on gamepad anyway. Your reward for spending your free time doing Turn 10s job on the game you spent $80 on is inconsistent FFB that ranges from just okay to terrible, depending on the car/track combination.

[@forzatesting]

I actually think the single player campaign in FM is worse than GT Sport’s campaign, which was essentially a bunch of random races patched in well after release. The multiplayer could be good but the penalty system is awful. It also took me three attempts to do one race today after the game crashed each time I got into a lobby. This game isn’t finished and should have been delayed.

[@jackmakackov7077]

If you think your Birmingham is bad come across the pond to our Birmingham......

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

Nah your Birmingham won't be as gray and depressing. Only good thing in Birmingham is swimming in the canal with the hope you snagged on a trolley.

[@EvilijoUK]

Both ACC and f23 can easily be set so I max my 165hz UWqhd monitor, meanwhile this even when set to lowest graphics won't run more than 80-90 Really poorly optimized this is

[@ronholmesuk825]

I totally agree - well said!

[@wesprescott4756]

I love the fish and chips reference lmaoo

[@Rapid_GT]

Forza Motorsport 8 is actually structured very differently than GT Sport or GT7 and there's more daily races, GT7 hasn't nowhere near been fully utilised, PD are fckin lazy and it's a p*ss take tbh.

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

I think they are both bad though in that the single players in both are way worse than games from 10+ years ago.

[@Rapid_GT]

@@GamerMuscleVideos Yeah single player on GT is terrible agreed, however they did trial Sophy A.I. which is probably the best A.I. a sim has ever had, I think there's more of that come in GT8 probably, Forza seems far more arcade like than GT, between the 2 games there's a great sim to be had, maybe Turn 10 and PD should collaborate and maybe they could fix both games 😂

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

@@Rapid_GT the Sophy ai is a total insult though , "hay guys we have this ai that would make the game actually fun and work as a game like you would expect but it's just a demo and no it's not in the actual game so thanks for letting us just advertise to share holders , bend over and give us more money thanks" Imagine other games doing that lol FPS having no AI showing a demo of AI that's realistic then removing it lol

[@Rapid_GT]

@@GamerMuscleVideos It did cross my mind the thought of players being used to test Sophy A.I. which they literally were at a live event, then they implemented some challenges in the game a while later, the biggest insult for me is GT7 multiplayer / cars / tracks / daily races are all copy n pasted from GTS, there are some tracks they just never use for Dailys at all, it's frustrating because every player can see it could be the best jump on and play sim out there, the problem is GT doesn't know what it's supposed to be, a car collecting game, a single player or multi-player, it does all 3 things badly and PD want you to play it how they want, they never listen to players, there's zero feedback or communication and currently their servers are fcked! A part from that it's great 😂 rant over.

[@TrueBlade-1889]

Worst part of Career, is the paltry 120 races. And worse: as you max out your car (by a full 80 PIs) ... you get shoved into another 5 race series with a different STOCK car ! "Car Builder" my ass. The only part that looks half decent is the final Class Series. But why not have Seasons, where you do 20 tracks with each car ? How hard could it be !??

[@neilsimmons9582]

I enjoyed Forza Horizons 5 because it wasn't attempting to be a sim, just a really fun game and it wasn't to be taken too serious. Motorsport though is claiming to be a bit of sim, however they're soo many sim racers that are much better. I would have rather for them to have 50 very detailed vehicles with great physics as opposed to 400-500 cars that I'm only going to drive 10 percent of them. F1 series for instance, the physics aren't as good compared to other titles with similar cars but I still play from time to time because it has a niche.

[@mattrickl06]

I don't mind the career to be honest but it is completely ruined by the AI which is like racing against drunken teenagers outside the White Hart on a Friday night.

[@dylan538]

spot on fella and honestly its true for most AAA games these days of all genres

[@Hellknight27]

So, if being a subscriber makes me stupid, being a member must cancel that out, as two negatives make a positive?? I R smart!

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

You have achieved 0iq a painless state similar to that of being a corpse.

[@LeeFall]

Am I crazy or are there no lap time leaderboards for each track?

[@togera77]

am I the only one that is annoyed at the Porsche's steering wheel for not having its rotation point WHERE IT SHOULD? which should be in the center of the screws and not between the bottom of the porsche logo and the bottom screw…

[@danielhaynes9646]

Agreed. Look at something like AC Competizione. A good number of tracks, a decent number of GT3 and 4 cars, amazing feel of racing and good multiplayer. On paper the game will sound crap and this is where marketers with no understanding of what gamers want step in and take over the development

[@MarcoVeraccio]

ACC is a different category of racing though. Forza Motorsport doesn’t compete with it, but rather with GT7, Project Cars 2, F1 etc. and does so very well imo

[@valrond]

ACC didn't even have working triples when it came out. And the online outside of LFM and private leagues is a joke.

[@pktrsho6055]

I absolutely love a good fish & chips! i make mine with non sweet tarter sauce and buttered garlic broccoli instead of the mushy peas and WOW!

[@Nockspielt]

Project Cars 3 would be a better game , if it had boxing stops and small tuning options, 100%!

[@SuperDRAY88]

Does anyone know why my wheel when turning wants to continue turning in that direction? It’s like the complete opposite of what it should be doing…?

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

sounds like you need to reverse the ffb , you can make the ffb stregth -100 in the wheel settings :)

[@fahada1921]

I’m actually drinking tea right now!!

[@rainey06au]

The new Forza game has just reminded me how good FM7 is.

[@BrotherO4]

Someone has to do it. Sorry to tell you… but no many of these decisions comes from Developers as well.

[@EmmieFloding]

The problem with the approach you suggest is that Racing games are already far to bare bones as game. you can jump in and drive online against other people and have a good time but they are so damn alike. You can have GT3 cars at silverstone or spa in countless games and it won't be anything special. IMO the problem is that racing games tend to half arse anything outside of the primary gameloop.

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

the problem is that racing games tend to half arse anything outside of the primary gameloop. - thats the point im making , IE make the game loop good and then ether do stuff seperate to that properly or don't bother dont half arse it and pretend that its actually not half arsed. they cant have it both ways.

[@JallyTee]

Turn 10 hyped up this game on their media channel and then the game didn't live up to it, that's what pissed off a lot of people. They just lie and they know the backlash will be drowned out. I don't feel other titles did that so we knew what to expect.

[@MumonguGaming]

Brick on standby, not required. Look forward to the next one

[@soundfx68]

I was literally glugging tea as you said it 😊

[@seebarry4068]

Thing is that simmers will be happier with a couple of disciplines executed well, than ‘every-discipline-ever-made’ in one title. We even buy titles like IOM TT with one track. I know there are other tracks, but honestly who cared?

[@robdotcom71]

Teadrinkers? Anyone who asks me how I have my tea, I tell them down the sink!

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

The swat team is on its way !

[@laughinggravyuk]

Standing ovation for "filthy pea eaters". That is all. 👍

[@ClarenceThompkins]

The race fuel is useless if they allow you to dump fuel before race and tells you exactly how many laps the fuel takes. Fix that and I'm sure races will be even more exciting. Minus tire wear, it still feels like you're going around a track until you finish with not too much strategy.

[@bobbyQQ]

I just want to listen to GM rant about sim racing for hours and hours a day. Am I weird? Lol

[@neblolthecarnerd]

I will say singleplayer isn't really the thing to point at here. Singleplayer is 110% necessary for a game like this because no matter how much convincing you may try to do most of the audience will only be there for the singleplayer. Ultimately ranked multiplayer even though it usually contains the most hardcore fans is a niche. If anything the singleplayer statistically should have more focus on it than multiplayer. For example 36.3% of gt7 players have finished the "career". Wheras only 17.7% have done a single sport mode race (honestly higher than i thought). Info is gathered from the trophies associated.

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

You missed the point of the video , it wasn't that games or this games should focus on multiplayer it's that a game should make sure what it has is good. But yes with a Forza game you would expect single player to be decent or the focus as that's why most people generally buy and play Forza games for.

[@weswheel4834]

Give peas a chance!

[@LudwigBeefoven]

Racing game developers are software companies. The issue you are describing is a software industry wide issue.

[@117johnpar]

If this was an online only game I wouldn't have thought for a single second about buying the newest title in a franchise I've spent the majority of the past 15+ years playing. I also just disagree that this was somehow split in terms of focus and features to the point of ruining other parts. Much like with Halo infinite. MASSIVE chunks of modes and features have been stripped from older games for this release. Leaving such a bare bones single and multiplayer for them to solely focus on. They ALREADY have their hyper focus and concentration on the product they made, And they still botched it massively. That on top of the fact T10 is one of if not the biggest racing game studios in the world. And they are outgunned in content, polish, and design inspiration by literally everyone else with this title. All that to say. I disagree that they should have narrowed their focus, as they already have and shouldnt need to with their size and resources. It may take another 30 years of bad games for people to comprehend this concept. But a massive team of unenthusiastic and/or incompetent developers that lack a clear vision can spend 30 years making a game and it will always be crap. It could be the most narrow of focuses, it can have the most hands'est off'est of upper management, it can have a trillion dollar budget. Doesnt matter. Games today, especially in AAA have 3x as many people working on them, they take 3x as long to make, are made for consumers with a much much higher ceiling for computational performance, and they have access to much better software tools and industry knowledge that had to be created for those that came from 15 years ago. Yet every massive studio is taking over a half decade to release a cheap feeling, buggy, cut down, unpolished, unfinished, product. Its not the 'higher ups'. Crazy though, but those higher ups havent changed in the past 20 years, If their names changed then certainly their motives and methods sure havent. You think they didnt have just as much of a 'business first' mindset back in 2000-2010? The often scapegoated businessmen haven't changed in the industry. The size and quality of the teams that actually make the games from the ground floor has changed massively. In both the scale and the type of people who do it.

[@playmaker5601]

"Tell James to defend like a Lion!"

[@JallyTee]

This is the most elaborate video to say Forza is a big greasy turd and I couldn't agree more.

[@Tj930]

To be fair, speaking from a Lean-Agile Software Development perspective, it's probably NOT the technical people messing things up... It will be the Product Owner, Product Manager or Stakeholders (ie Business People) Now, the way around this is by using what they call "Hypothesis Testing" - they have to state the problem they are trying to solve; this "solved" state has to be Testable (ie these tests have to be falsifiable, ie they can be failed), and they have to make predictions about what "fixed" would look like and the benefits it will bring. Doing what's easiest/most expedient is not necessarily that... Nor would, say, be putting a 'diversity person' in charge who hates motorcars and computers 🙄

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

Yep I agree , its normally a disconnect between the Fans , Development team , Publisher / money people and the fact each group doesn't really fully understand the realities of each groups needs and goals and where the compromises and focuses have to be. I think this is why often having a slightly moronic despot style business leader can actually work or often does work , because despite them being a bit of a tit at least everyone is focused on a single specific goal with direct oversite on that goal. The other solutions that seem to work well is very small dev team / indi dev team or Very flat structure dev team that is comprised of skilled workers that are also given time and responsibility.

[@Tj930]

@GamerMuscleVideos Yeah. Agree with most of that (although I might prefer my Product Owner to be more of a visionary than a "despot" 😉 lol). But this way of working is built entirely out of feedback loops; so, if you have a problem that isn't getting addressed, you have a broken feedback loop. Simple as... So, in this particular case, building totally the wrong thing / unwanted functionality means that these assumptions are not being checked frequently enough with the customer, if at all ; every iteration (typically every 2 weeks), the current state of the Product should be put in the hands of the Stakeholders / Users / User Representatives to validate those crucial assumptions... Wait too long, there's nothing we can do about it!

[@andrewcurtis4568]

0:33 Dude, I can't even spell CLEVER.

[@k.dickie8972]

GM, I agree with your evaluation of the sim games and the feature creep that is added without real solid development. But I disagree with your evaluation of the source. I think the communities /enthusiasts are constantly asking for features, before the sim is completely developed and I think this is the real source of the distraction. Probably one of the reasons why initial releases seem to hold so much promise, but end up diluted as the game evolves. The developers don't really finish the first thing before they start working on the next 5 features the players have been asking for, thinking it will keep the community happy. One of the hardest things to accomplish in life is to really polish a job off, most become too easily satisfied with "good enough" and as we have seen any additional feature development always causes issues, degrading the original to some extent. Once this expectation/degradation loop gets started it becomes very difficult to fix all at once and gamers simply call a game crap and look for the next "shiny bauble". I think the communities need to realize the how important it is to properly evolve the product and encourage/support developers to "polish" before moving to the next "10 features" they think they need to enjoy the sim. But TJMHO.

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

The developer has the responsibility to know what can be done and what is actually a good future or not , the vocal community people asking for stupid things that are normally gimmicks and things they wont actually want to play for more than a few hours should just be ignored. That's litrally part of running a business or making art , the artist / producer / creator has to know whats good or bad themselves. I mean you probably can make some products based on what a user base wants but the artist would still need to know how to execute that in a way that actually works and is good. a AAA game sold for 50-100 should already be polished , the idea that players have to pay top price and then sit around for a game to be made to work at a base level and the fact people accept that shows how bad things are. its fair enough for an indi game or lower price or base feature game to be polished over time , not a bloody AAA game published by sony / microsoft / EA

[@k.dickie8972]

@@GamerMuscleVideos I agree the real responsibility rests with the developer. It’s just frustrating that so many ‘dreamers’ get so vocal in many of the forums raving about new features, before a sim gets all the initial bugs worked out. I think some should look in the mirror and realize they are part of the issue.

[@k.dickie8972]

I enjoy your content and your humour. I like how you aren’t afraid to tell it like you see it. Keep up the good work.

[@steelin666]

*Wrote this comment in hurry after hearing you praise ACC, as I had to go out. Went back, and you actually commented on a few of those points. I blame your bait&switch narration, and definitely not my premature objection. ACC is definitely guilty of that focus dilution and ticking off features you're talking about. In fact, it may be one of the most guilty sims in that regard. First - they added "career" mode that's not even an actual career mode, but a misnamed campaign mode. And they did this again, after doing the same thing in Assetto Corsa. It's absolutely garbage. Second - they added multiplayer ranking, but without the infrastructure and organization of competitive environment. A third-party service is dominating their multiplayer, but a feature "ticked off" regardless. Third - the overbloated physics needed not one, but TWO overhauls to get to a state that can be considered realistic driving-wise (and still has some issues). This is one of the biggest simracing sins - judging physics by how complex they are, not by how driveable and compelling they are. Physical tyre models are considered a must, even though they often end up being complete bollocks when compared to old, proven empyrical tyre models, because someone messed up one line of the spaghetti code. And that worship of complexity is how ACC ended up being worse and less realistic than quite dated at that point previous Kunos sim, Assetto Corsa. Fourth - GT4 with it's absolutely rubbish BOP that makes it unusable outside of fun races or using some of its cars as one-make classes. Otherwise, a completely unuseful class, because they don't care to fix it. Fifth - "GT America" with half of tracks missing...

[@Coffeecafe5091]

I’ve skipped getting this , decided it was not worth £80

[@speedgoat7496]

Wow I live in Birmingham and am drinking tea lol mate are u in brum?

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

At least that's only 50% bad , fortunately I don't live in Birmingham but have been a few times and as a result am deeply scared.

[@speedgoat7496]

@@GamerMuscleVideos you accent is so familiar I was convinced. So disappointed with Forza man, played for the first time this morning, Spa with the 80s F1 McLaren, the game from bumper cam looks like a 90s game. Spa ain’t built right lol Also I’m a programmer, not games, but totally agree… management and agile and feature creep lol

[@thijsazerty692]

* sips his tea *

[@romandulce999]

There is no Nissan GTR GT3 in this game... (((

[@ryanmccormack2458]

In all fairness, at least Forza Motorsports career mode is playable. I bought GT7 less rhat a month ago for the single player and I played it twice. Gran Turismo sport actually has a better single playe mode. This is my 1st Forza Motorsport and although its far from perfect (nothing like Gran Turismo 4), I to think I will continue playing the career mode. After all what other options are there?

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

GT7 is guilty of the same thing , i mean both FM and GT7 are really shoddy in there single player and are taking the piss out of there fan bases. The sophy AI being only showed in a demo / tempry mode lol and FM saying they will update AI at a later date is just insulting to be honest.

[@valrond]

@@GamerMuscleVideos No. GT7 "career" mode, the cafés, is very different. You don't do races there. You always start at the back and have to come back and take the first place. That's it. I finished it when it came out, I was waiting for races where you race cars from a standing start, all together, with similar speed. That didn't happen. It happens in Forza, although the IA options are too low, 5 is too slow for me, and 6 is too fast, and you pick where to start, instead of qualifying. Other than that, they are proper races.

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

Yes I have completed gt7 , problem with Forza is the ai is still rubbish you ether massively beat them or they massively beat you , There are racing games from decades ago with better AI than forza. SO in both cases the single player is uninspired monotonous grind rubbish. @@valrond

[@ryanmccormack2458]

​@@GamerMuscleVideosI've been playing Forza most of the day for the 1st time. (I didn't want to pay for the VIP edition as I have Gamepass). It definitely needs the AI tweaked. Also the penalties need to be fixed. I've been rammed numerous times only to receive a penalty for the luxury of being rammed off the track. They also like to turn into your car but obviously they don't get penalties. I've also noticed the AI cheating. Cars which are slower at accelerating, beating my car on the 1st lap. Only for me to slowly catch up over the course of the race. The mess of games is commonplace in all Genres now. Games are never released in a finished state. Although I have a lot more hope for Forza Motorsport finally getting a decent career mode over time, than Gran Turismo ever getting a decent single player mode again. At this stage Gran Turismo should just remove Single player from the game.

[@SuperrHands]

Not a fan of Fish 'n' Sh!ts

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

so bad lol

[@SuperrHands]

🙃@@GamerMuscleVideos

[@mr.justice4976]

I have to disagree with that. Even though the career mode is certainly something that needs to be improved and expanded in the coming months, it is somehow very satisfying and relieving to have a manageable amount of series and races in the overview (reminiscent of the good old 15-20 hour PS1/PS2 games). I never liked the overloaded 70+ hour career scope that many racing titles have. To be honest, completing GT5 & GT6 to 80% was a total waste of time in my opinion. A story would just annoy and turn me off, most likely soap opera quality as seen so often in racing games, stay away from me with that crap, come on. Upgrading cars worked very well for me and was satisfying too. The AI is aggressive but ok for now. No doubt plenty of room for improvement for both. If I understand you correctly, the conclusion is to ditch the career mode and just release the online part, like GT Sport did? That was a disaster, don't you remember? No, I agree with Turn 10's decision to implement a career mode, even if it lacks content and needs work. It is crucial for a console racer like Forza. And I also think because the mode is so "empty", you enjoy the driving experience even more and focus on the elementary like (new) physics, atmosphere and graphics, which is really good imo. Purged of the unnecessary "content" burden is often not such a bad thing, which is basically your message :) Started Forza today with the pad and it was just the best racing experience I've ever had with a gamepad. I will switch to the steering wheel later. A real step forward has also been made with the soundscape. FM has delivered a damn good foundation for a Simcade-Racer as a basis for the developments to come

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

Your comment really doesn't make sense 1) the ai is anything but agresive in this game I don't know how you are driving for it to seem agresive. 2) the single player in this if you are actually playing to complete or level up cars or upgrade them is litrally the biggest grind in the history of all singe players 3) cycling the same exact format of races but changing access to them every month or so is really not giving people more manageable amounts to do. 4) realising a AAA game at full price that needs core updates shouldn't be acceptable in the slightest. 5) you are a modern publishers dream customer , how bad would a product need to be for you to not be happy with it ? Not saying you or anyone can't enjoy Forza or any game I have enjoyed some massevly broken and totally crap games in the past , but that's selerate to being objective about good and bad components of something and being aware of what is good design / a coherent product.

[@mr.justice4976]

@@GamerMuscleVideos No, releasing a AAA racing game platformer in 2023 without a career mode as you suggest it, THAT makes no sense. GT Sport proved that, that's why PD updated it several times to add a mode. Turn 10 knows this, Polyphony Digital knows it too. Apparently some still don't know though. To me the AI acted aggressively in some cases, i didn't say its driving or driving skills itself are aggressive. Anyway, that wasn't the point I was trying to make at all. As said, AI needs to be improved according to what i noticed in many tests, although i did not witness it myself and had no real issues with it so far. It is still a step forward, which many seem to forget. But actually it is not really worth mentioning whether it is aggressive or not regarding your main point of criticism. No, for sure i'm not every modern publishers dream customer. Microsofts Game Pass release policy can be called a modern gamers dream customer service though, because you do not need to pay the full price in order to play the game when it is released. No first party game released day one on Game Pass is a full price game, especially not a first party game. You simply NEVER have to pay the full price to play the full version of a Ms game at release date. I didn't had to pay anything as my subscription was still running, at least no additional costs besides the one for the subscription. Therefor this is not an argument. My demands on games are actually very (very) high, and Turn 10 made a very good foundation, so they definitely delivered in the first place. If they would have messed up the physics, controls, graphics and performance, THEN the game would be broken. I'm referring to the Series X version, the PC version seems to be very broken in terms of performance, which is the biggest thing i would criticize. The AI needs to be improved, yes, but it is not so bad you can call the game broken. They did not deliver in the second, the content, SP design and motivation possibly, but this is the easiest thing to add afterwards. It's clear that Turn 10 will change or optimize pretty much everything about the game in the coming months and years, so that it may not even be comparable to the release version. Please keep in minde that It's not Forza 8 (i had to learn it too :D), it's a service product, whether you like this concept or not is an another debate. But because it is, it's inappropriate to criticize missing or not really good content at release as much as you do.

[@danielhaynes9646]

Bit like Starfield. 1000+ planets to explore, with about 950 of them being barren with no reason to visit.

[@glitchinthematrix9306]

its the worst racing game i ever bought. Im so dissappointed!

[@seebarry4068]

2:18 unless it’s manure. Or the world pooping championshits.

[@MuntyScruntFundle]

Never mind this, it's so full of bugs and stupid decisions I really wish \I hadn't bought it. I never expected a full sim, but for all the shouting they did about having the most comprehensive tyre model ever, they should have been able to make a car fell something like a car. And for F sake, remember my F'ing settings!

[@perhapsjames_]

mushy peas enjoyer

[@HellRainGod]

no vr no sim, they left it just another racing game, you know yourself if you enjoy vr, we can get lost for hours driving around in circles 🤣

[@TMERUNNR]

I'm going to go find my damn Brick!¡ Lol.. and then drink some sexy Brit tea!😅

[@AimingAtYou]

I want the dullness. No cone challanges or other stupid filler crap. And NO, road cars is why we play forza!!! I would never want them to prioritize race cars over road cars! They should have both, but prioritize road cars! Basically, I dissagree with basically everything you said about single player, this and GT7

[@H3lkat]

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeese stop steering under braking, it hurts and makes me want a flavoured coffee for comfort.

[@MeMyselfandEye127]

I cant wait to read Metacritic tomorrow

[@AlexBarregon]

With respect, GM, not everyone wants to play multiplayer games. So what do you do, make a game for single play and lose those who want online games or the other way around? You could lose revenue (for your next project) and alginate a proportion of players (potentially having your next project undersell). So you compromise and try to engage as many players possible from both camps. I enjoy both game modes in FM it is a great game. Like you I am an ex-developer. Respect.

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

You missed the point of the video. At no point did I say "games / forza should only be multiplayer" the point is IF a game did ether good single player or multiplayer or X good then they should go with that and not do X + a bunch of buggy unfinished rubish , in the case of FM they did multiplayer well so they should focus on that and then add single player when say they have AI that works at a basic level or single player thats at least on a par with games from 10+ years ago.. At worst a mode in a game should at least be acceptable and if its a AAA game from the platform publisher then really it should be at least as good as the last game in the series. People are often talking about FM as if its an Indi title or the developer massively innovated with other aspects of the game , or if it was some budget alpha test or something. The irony with FM is that you would expect them to do single player as a focus more than anything else.

[@cisco150]

I wish this had VR

[@Nockspielt]

Ive played it 2-3 days long, now im done, really. Its not that good....Forza Motorsport 7 was better. The handling is a bit better here, but just a small bit. The ffb still is shit, like ever bevore.

[@kaiying74]

You don't like a shit fish supper?

[@jimmybobby9400]

Overly harsh on this game IMO

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

How so ? My videos are to be honest far to kind , if this game was an FPS it would be getting ripped to shreds like the last bf game did. - locked low FPS in multiplayer - game doesn't remember settings on reboot so you have to rebind equipment every launch - AI that doesn't attack or defend and is worse than ai in 10+ year old Forza games - constant crashes and game hitches - very bad erratic performance - inconsistent quality of content and large amount of totally reused content - lack of content - terrible default car setups - terrible default ffb settings - ridiculous grind single player that has an absurd level up system to access upgrades - iratic penalty system in multiplayer that makes no sense - cars warping and jumping in multiplayer - tire ware is absurdly high - cars float all over the place - curbs / suspension causes cars to go into large slides