This Calamity Is Absolutely Disgusting - Beyond All Reason

[@AidanNaut0]

Biggest take away here: If the enemy sea player isn't at their beach, you should be REALLY CONCERNED.

[@Nocturnalverse]

Yeah. The other guy needed to call "Missing Top", lol.

[@hewchy]

80% commentary, 20% reciting or trying to remember old unit names

[@NUBSAUCETV]

It is the Drongo way.

[@HonshuHigamori]

>Blow the front wide open with a 22 minute calamity >The frontliners just waffle around and seem to not know what to do for the rest of the game lmfao

[@grimmethymcbones8414]

Eh, I got my starting base wiped out by north navy. I had to start almost from scratch without T2 support. I got tanks out eventually.

[@grahamhill676]

To be fair, the calamity is crazy poweful. Whenever I play vs AI, the AI somehow have a good enough economy to have more than one.. And there's nothing you can do about it when it hits you outside of range

[@austinstoner1988]

​@@grimmethymcbones8414 gg still! Have you ever heard of total annihilation escalation?

[@shanerooney7288]

Consider building a nuke after the calamity rush. 24:03 , 27:04 , 27:26 , 29:22 ... Basically anytime the enemy has a mass of units trying to counter push, You can shut it down with the nuke.

[@Nocturnalverse]

Today I learned... if you are the air player... you really need to F'ing scout. And what AidanNaut0 said: "If the enemy sea player isn't at their beach, you should be REALLY CONCERNED."

[@christianresel8051]

yep, that should be a no brainer. Thats not to learn, thats BASICS.

[@QueenOfMud]

A single scout plane would have been a massive power multiplier here.

[@estavrionto6953]

Usually when that position goes eco instead of contesting water, the bases front and one behind are decimated by the enemy water player

[@HungryPunkr]

Very true and the Irony is that as a friend of Irish he usually runs a nasty navy/hover combo in that position. But we convinced him to try pure navy. It's just how it goes sometimes, its a game so better to enjoy it and not get mad.

[@grimmethymcbones8414]

Too be fair, I almost did get wrecked by north navy. I'm Bies.

[@howtoappearincompletely9739]

28:30-28:42 What an absolutely horrific chain reaction! It'd be enough to make you cry.

[@UrielXN]

That "its ok i win" were the most beautiful 4 words I've heard in a while. :D

[@andrewmillian6959]

Only suggestion to make this faster I can think of is to see if you can take advantage of the Pond from that position. Tidal's pretty good on this map and naval t1 energy cons are 10% more efficient than their land equivalent. Not sure if its worth the trouble though.

[@KAClown]

Definitely worth the trouble. Seaplanes would tremendously benefit this strategy.

[@BlackIndigenousPosse]

Typhoon was the Core torpedo bomber. Coolest looking aircraft in the whole game. Can't actually remember the Arm torp plane; probably because it didn't look as cool.

[@austinstoner1988]

I liked the brawler

[@Shindo13371]

I wonder if starting air factory or amphibious constructor in order to take the island metal would speed it up. It'd only be worth it if you get there early enough.

[@KAClown]

Part of why this worked this time is because the player in that lane was playing the usual "we contest the middle line" meta based on "lanes" whereas Drongo was playing a solitary "I build the Calamity and win the game" meta; if the player in that lane realized that the game was not being played then the player would have aggressively pushed in and at least tested that there were in fact dangerous defenses there waiting on the beachhead. Drongo didn't contest the northern island and didn't push out any units to do so because that information would have told the opposing player that there was a threat that can contest the water and cross to land, and it would have altered the player to what specific kind of threat they needed to be thinking about countering. By simply not contesting that island, Drongo lulled them into a false sense of security and superiority. That player had invested heavily into water on the basis of anticipating significant naval resistance in that "lane", and when they found they didn't encounter resistance, they doubled down on securing their position on an implicit bias or prejudice that Drongo was clearly making some kind of massive strategic mistake by not trying to take and secure the water on that map. Drongo won because they lacked information; a significant part of the strategy is that Drongo hid his beachhead economy with radar jammers. The information asymmetry allowed him to operate the way that he did as long as he did, and he won the game because of it. It isn't just a matter of the raw amount of resource per second that Drongo can pump out, but it is also a calculus of how many resources per second Drongo has to split to defenses or contesting arbitrary resource boundaries and territorial claims. Getting there early only has so much utility. A lot of the players in the meta right now are enamored with getting to a maximum of the territorial extent and immediately setting up a frontline then skirmishing until someone's economy breaks so they can push through. These are very fragile strategies with very marginal performance differences. Often, the players are sacrificing immediate econ development in order to expend resources to make units or move distances that otherwise could or would be put directly towards teching up construction and economic capabilities in the core base or which could be used to try to secure the inner core defenses rather than establishing some remote front. The major utility of the front in many different maps is that keeping the opposition at distance gives you time and breathing space to establish and expand your economy. On much smaller maps, rushing to the front is dubious in its benefit; if you take 8 v 8 and put the players on a very small flat all metal map then you'll see this play out and the strategies radically change; the front rush makes the most sense when you have low player density and very large spaces with low metal patch densities. A lot of my strategies are based on playing old Total Annihilation multiplayer maps where they function as challenge maps. One of my favorites is a large no-land map with no metal patches. The strategies that work in that case are very different than the no-land maps with metal patches or the land maps with no metal patches or the all metal land maps or... Point is that if you rush the first few minutes of the game to build a metal mine that is immediately blown up by the other player that also rushed to do the same then the marginal benefit is detrimental on a whole. The rush is only justified if you can establish the metal mines at a cost lower than the benefit which means they need to operate for a long enough time that they at least pay back all the defenses; if they don't even pay back all the defenses before they're destroyed then you paid to lose economic efficiency and effectiveness which is a losing strategy.

[@Sorain1]

A huge part of this, to add on to what KAClown said, is the lack of scouting by the north sea player. One thing that seems to be utterly missed by a LOT of players in replays I see is the sheer power of air recon. If even the slightest recon effort had been done by that player, they would have seen the defenseless state of Drongo's base and could have either realized "He must have a reason for that." or started applying pressure. Any hovercraft or seaplane to do recon with would have also revealed that information. The same lack of appreciation applied to both Drongo and his teammates. If someone on my team gets an early Calamity, I want to do recon on bases so they know what/where to shoot! How much shorter would that game have been if Drongo had pumped out a swarm of 50 T1 recon planes in 40-130 worth of production time and then tried a full map sweep with them spread out to get recon on where the structures were? Super early recon isn't a huge deal, but like radar coverage, being able to spot bases/infrastructure/anti-nuke/nukes is a huge benefit to a team often overlooked in replays even on higher levels of play.

[@jenHry-ng3pw]

​@@KAClown it was too long to read... Why this worked was Drongo was facing noob 1-50 games rating 7. He won the water but didn't adjust at all. However, i see this mistake even from rating 35 players. They win the wate, continue to build ships, their mainland colapses without any help from them and then they complain of the loss lol

[@AlexK-jp9nc]

Somebody has to stop this man he's becoming too powerful

[@codstary1015]

Scary part is the fact that many players outclass him. When u watch some of the higher levels play it's crazy

[@kriegscommissarmccraw4205]

You should add radar pinpointers too. The drift is pretty wild, might help your calamity

[@JohnHafner]

Mom, can we have Setons Gap at home? Oh hunnie, remember we already have Micro Gap at home!

[@KAClown]

Good game. 22 minute calamity is very impressive. I find absolute delight in watching you immediately take all that build power and immediately build a defensive chain to the beach head to take out the bot lab there. Your game after establishing the calamity is much like how I play my early to mid game. My one critique is something you sort of already saw and commented on; my highest priority besides immediately securing that beachhead and continuing expansion of the economy would be spamming static defenses for all my allies using that construction fleet. Securing the opposite beachhead where Mango and Samsonite are located would be second to securing the beachhead adjacent to my core. From my perspective playing either your position or 150Griffin or [pip]roadkill7117, my objective generally is securing my own economy, growing that economy as quickly as possible, sharing a portion of the economic gains to every player especially if I ever have you anywhere in my orbit, and once I reach a certain threshold of security treating that entire corner of the map and all my allies as my extended base and defensive line which means making sure there's no defensive gaps for nukes or air craft. If the game progressed much longer I'd be about setting up at least three calamities so that I have good coverage of the map, and I'd use the aircraft plant to establish scouts to guide the calamities. Usually, when I go for giant construct plane fleets like that I end up building batteries of air repair platforms because you can spam air and have them try to autodock for repairs to significantly limit losses of resources. Also, protip: that lake in the middle there that like no one uses? That could be a seaplane launch point. Construction seaplanes are BETTER mobile construction than normal construction aircraft; they have 15 build power more per seaplane than normal construction aircraft, and each one is a tidal generator (20 energy per tick each). In TA, there's a virtuous and vicious cycle you can pursue where you use tidal generators to boot strap into a scalable energy converter network (costing 1 metal and non-trivial energy and space) to get you to seaplanes then you start seaplane spam and feedback directly into all of that while teching up. It may not look great from the perspective of resources spent per unit of metal etc, but for mid to late game like with your calamity strategy, the initial resources don't particularly matter once you have the "build anything almost instantly and anywhere" threshold. Something I think you'd be well advised to do with this strategy is try it out but instead of going hard and exclusively for calamity take that same kind of economic superiority and immediately focus it on forcing all your allies to boom. You've figured out how to build the economic supercharger, and the calamity is definitely a good burst usage of it, but I think you'd be surprised with what happens when 7 people suddenly get plugged into that supercharger, and it just keeps growing exponentially.

[@Sorain1]

Agreed. Suddenly having someone gift you a couple AFIS and T2 Energy converter pack pushes basically anyone not loaded up with them already into a whole new level of production power. Throwing in a T2 con along with it to start upgrading your mexes is no slouch either. Having someone just, throw down defense in depth with AA, Anti-nuke, LLTs ect, frees up the other economies to do whatever while preventing some singular breakthrough or bombing run from devastating 2-3+ players and swinging the game's momentum.

[@ShadeScarecrow]

Holy hell, I don´t know what I was expecting that big calamity cannon to do, but I definitely underestimated it. Also, even though 90% of the unit and building names you throw out meaning nothing to me, this was a very fun watch :)

[@michaelbennett7561]

Nice to see a game of Forged Alliance played on Seton's Clutch.

[@nathandubois2531]

I laugh reading this hahahha

[@Goobilicous]

I've never seen this game before, but I was a big Planetary Annihilation fan and wanted to get into Supreme Commander. I might give this a shot thanks to your videos!

[@carlod5818]

if you try supreme commander remember to go for FAF, steam is pretty dead for that game

[@fluets5658]

All games good picks, don't forget ZeroK too!

[@grahamhill676]

I came from Supcom to this and its a difficult but fun transition

[@davidsirmons]

And as I don't play cor, I play arm, I've never gotten a 22 minute calamity...but I _HAVE_ gotten a 24 minute Ragnarok.

[@bluu.0111]

Someone tried this in last game, but I had air superiority and front was pushed in thanks to gunships. It got scouted and t2 missile seige got it.

[@lmao_nope]

Oh my, Seton's Clutch, I like this map.

[@tomd3264]

Is there a way to turn off super artillery like that? A standard slower firing long range arty would be ok, but the spam cannon seems game breaking at times. Lol

[@christianresel8051]

1. Its weaker by quiet a lot (the vulcan that is( Yea using the TA name as this game here is ACTUALY PIRATING) 2. Nah, Berta spam would commence and do the same realy, with more precision and power mind you.

[@professor_bar]

This is disgusting. I love it. I'm always amazed at how good you are at teching. Great video! As always, love the content!

[@HuehuehueWolooo]

Wait this is like bizzaro fever dream world SupCom Setton's that I would describe the next day to my friends as real and nobody would believe me?

[@PoldarnTrost]

I was one of the 3 BOO members watching the BOO 2 members on either team spectating that game. All 7 of us in the same Discord channel. This game was painful to watch. Quietly waiting for top team's pending Doom...

[@HungryPunkr]

As one of those members teamed with Irish I asked him what he was doing because i was frustrated but when he said he had it I stopped. However Pol, you're being an asshole here. Irish isn't new but he very good at taking criticism and learning. What you didn't say is that when we Spectate on Members on opposite teams we keep mum on the goings of the teams to each other. I had just watched Drongo's vid on this map a few days ago and i got to where his position was and didn't expect this. But this isn't a reg tactic, its a smurf/cheese that isnt reg play. Good on Drongo for getting it to work but it's not fair to Irish to criticize from the all seeing eye of spectate view. So how about instead of trashing our org-mate in the youtube comments you have the decency to either say this to his face or offer advice on how he could've done it better. On that note I apologize to carry this bit of drama into your comments Drongo, but I don't appreciate people I know dumping on my friend because of inexperience was a hilarious game for me and it was a blast watching it from your view. Definitely going to pick apart that replay and this video to step up my game. Also, a thanks in general because watching you has helped me somewhat improve my eco sustainability as Cortex. I look forward to more of your stuff. Cheers from the BOO lads.

[@PoldarnTrost]

​@@HungryPunkr I didn't mean to be offensive, I just meant it was difficult to keep my mouth shut spectating that game. I would have done the same thing in the water. After winning the water I would have reinforced it.

[@HungryPunkr]

@@PoldarnTrost Then maybe put that the first time instead of what you put. You may not have meant it that way but its the way it was taken by irish.

[@kevinstringer5994]

How does your build tab look like that?

[@howtoappearincompletely9739]

Why are those commanders "going boom" without being attacked?

[@kevintrigg3707]

I think sending a wave of ~15 observation planes out at ~26-30 minutes would have done great here

[@vinnata]

the first 10 minutes i tought it was TA escalation mod.

[@dragonflyer10000]

how do i go about finding teammates for BAR? i wanna get more into it and play with others instead of the ai. is there a reliable place to go to find poeple and or, clan like places?

[@MollyAndersen-p4t]

Really well known supreme comander map xD

[@bencruz563]

I have a single tear in my eye. I have not played supreme commander or anything like it since 2008. How big of a community playes this game? What kind of rig specs do you need?

[@dalton6108]

It’s crazy but you completely focused on your economy those 20 minutes and it shows. This was fun to watch.

[@9x18Parabellum]

Loving the BAR content

[@superchairbed]

Total Annihilation lives forever

[@jummeh]

Is there a reason why they changed all the names from TA?

[@austinstoner1988]

Copyright reasons

[@rudgesanders9268]

It was Mary Swanson in Dumb and Dumber. Then if she married Lloyd she'd be Mary Christmas.

[@telpon4868]

I don´t know why the algorithm send me here as I have never seen or played this game but I am not complaining.

[@killers31337]

If you can make 22 minute Calamity, you'd be able to get several juggers by that time, right? Would be interesting to see how it would go with juggers instead.

[@bajsbrev4651]

On my drongo bingo card I would put "pedal to the metal",

[@SteveAkaDarktimes]

I feel like 80% of all losses is due to not doing enough scouting.

[@menschalter1582]

So this game is basically Supreme Commander Forged alliance with some cosmetic changes? Or is it a conversion mod?

[@rakkel6061]

It's a rebuild of what SupCom was the spiritual successor of: Total Annihilation. Basically almost exactly unit for unit port with some balance changes.

[@dustyottenheim3364]

I would love a build order guide for this strategy

[@andypocalypse]

is this a new TA? it looks super defined compared to the original?

[@MaxRodFTW]

IT's totaly our beloved TA, broughtback to life !

[@christianresel8051]

pssst. We dont talk about this game basicaly STEALING and REUSING 100% TA ASSETS down to the LAST UNIT and just renaming them here! They should be happy that Bullfrog is lone gone and WG doesnt care about it (as they hold the rights and the game by now). Otherwise BAR would be gone by that point

[@wheatfield.]

Seton's Clutch

[@nicolasbertin8552]

This was very fun to watch :D Maybe tone down on the coffee and red bull so you can speak a bit less fast :D But very GG

[@austinstoner1988]

Hell yeah!! Hey drongo have you ever heard of total annihilation escalation?

[@michaelwade9073]

do this again but rush platys and only build them to overrun the water

[@penumbra4995]

Is this map inspired by the one from supreme commander

[@austinstoner1988]

Yes. Setons clutch 🎉

[@artyumdragstov8823]

how is that north sea not fucking with you

[@Blue_Fox1939]

I just love how Total Annihilation take all it's look from Supreme Commander Forged Alliance

[@austinstoner1988]

You mean sup com took it's look from total annihilation

[@christianstanton7033]

So it really is like Zero-K

[@sledgetype0029]

DRP can commit funny warcrimes with incendiary rounds tho

[@sglkh3r6f9h]

I do not play this game. I have no idea what is going on or the strategy. yet, I watched this completely

[@stareSimulVelCadere]

Lets see the guide!

[@NeinDao]

7:00 he talks about no one taking and iland he himself is not taking O_o

[@BartJBols]

Spamming the dolphin is horrible advice imo. Especially when the default water spam is either the subs or the torpedo cannon combo ships. Both will win easily against dolphins. Dolphin speed is tempting, but if the enemy just plays defensively you will end up losing time and time again they will build up with subs, and eventually be in your port killing you without being able to shoot back at that point.

[@PySnek]

You can counter the Calamity with EMP and nukes

[@harrisonhunter8823]

Love to see the build order!

[@davidsirmons]

You could always have TWO teams/coms working to built a calamity. Just saying. Nobody ever thinks of doubling effects in physics, projectiles, jet thrusters, radio waves, lasers, or RTS games.

[@grahamhill676]

The AI always do this. They'll put their economies together and share units and buildpower. It almost feels like cheating because humans won't do that as naturally as AI

[@artaniszraw2326]

Great game, but not a tactic to place your cards on your lane enemy being a newbie. Thats why it is important to play in lobbys with minimum rating. Otherwise its wild to see what is possible as eco :D

[@inquisitorthomasdefinitely536]

This map looks like satins clutch on supreme commander

[@Tentacl]

Honest question here, it's the first time I see this game's gameplay, how is it better than Supreme Commander? Looks REALLY similar.

[@TastySanchez]

Loving this commentary

[@timmietimmins3780]

I really hate your defensive plan. "if I get attacked, on the coast, I am just going to throw down a scorpion, which will defend me, and that will be it". No, it won't. What will happen is that the enemy will flow around you, and attack one of your teammates, and you will have a massive leak. I feel it's a major major oversight not to radar your front line. Sure, there are counters, but radar is basically free, and it would MASSIVELY help your team out to protect them if you do leak, which given you intend to defend with static defense rather than a mobile force, is extremely likely. You could even just build it in your base and have your air transport move it out to the front line, and it's not like you don't already have jammers to protect it. radar is free, and there is absolutely no reason to skip it, in any build. It just keeps enemies honest.

[@KAClown]

I mean he throws down half a dozen scorpions in the blink of an eye. Completely wipes out the opponent's entire wave. Then immediately proceeds to within less than 30 seconds turn his entire beach head into an absolute line of death such that he destroys the bot lab that got snuck in purely with static defenses and construction planes. That entire beach head has more defenses manifested on it and more solid defenses manifested on it exactly when they need to be than the entire defensive frontline of the middle. Your criticism about the radar is more or less sound, but at the time when Drongo setup the beachhead resources he didn't have the margins to spend; I do think that was potentially a fatal mistake if the north player had gone for any kind of units other than ships. Though the north sea and south sea players both ought to be utilizing seaplanes more than they do in these games. And if the north player had used ships + seaplanes then that radar wouldn't have mattered much but AA would have mattered more.

[@timmietimmins3780]

@@KAClown You are looking at this specific random chance, rather than the range of outcomes. - The attack, completely unscouted, happens to land shortly after he brings his air cons back from building his calamity, not while it is under construction. -The enemy has no scouting of any kind, and so he just walks right past 3 amexes and 15 energy converters thatare not covered by the defenses at all. - the attack is laughably anemic, because the guy launching it never took the uncontested mexes on the island or even all the water mexes, and does not appear to be tier 2, in spite of the attack being mustered past the 20 minute mark. Try this against a proper attack, I think it goes poorly. - There is no AA of any kind in the attack, in spite of the entire defense relying on mass aircons stacked on top of each other, and of course, many AA weapons do splash damage. -He starts building defenses, unscouted, BEFORE the enemy a-moves in, in spite of the enemy being on his beach for several minutes. This is pure luck. There is no timing being respected here, as it is not at all unreasonable for the water player to do a 25 pawn attack before the 24 minute mark. If this hits 2 minutes earlier, what's there? some air labs and nanos, and a single t2 constructor. And a whole bunch of chain reactionable nanos and energy converters. And he still lost 15 energy converters for 25 pawns, which isn't even a particularly bad trade from the pawns perspective. The defenses are not ready to be deployed at any moment, they are specifically being built at the 24 minute mark which is RIGHT as the enemy player happens to launch an unscouted attack. Try this 10 times, and I think 6 of them, this looks completely different. Especially because it's just not reasonable to leave sea uncontested and find that there are multiple unclaimed mexes on the sea side at the 24 minute mark.

[@KAClown]

@@timmietimmins3780 Like I said above, I grant that this could have gone worse particular if the North player pushed south very early in the game--but then we have to be talking about the counterfactual universe in which Drongo responded to that threat and that would be a very different scenario. So I am considering the range, and similar to how you consider me to be too narrowly focused on this one particular outcome; I consider you to be too narrowly focused on the specific range of outcomes you believe would have been likely in that counterfactual universe. One thing I am adamantly sure about that counterfactual universe is that it would be Drongo playing that scenario that we're specifically talking about inclusive of all the ranges we're considering, or if we're talking about some generic strategy consideration for some random player then we're at a level of abstraction that I'm not talking about or responding to. In that counterfactual universe, Drongo would see that attack from the beachhead down to where his defenses failed and where he leaks. Leaking is a lesser concern. Though chances are if his defenses did fail he won't just leak; the whole team would likely crumple; I don't consider that probable because the same reasoning and resources that allowed him to almost instantly erect several defense turrets would allow him to pivot the full force of his construction to other defensive or offensive strategies. The loss of the resources at the beach-head was ablative. By the point we're anywhere close to 22 minutes in, Drongo has long since gotten all the value back and then some from that establishment; it isn't worth Drongo to spend much of anything to defend it, and it remains down for all of a few minutes after that attack. Like again, theoretically you're making a somewhat sensible argument about strategic considerations and decision making between ideal players, but I find that particular theory-crafting to be both boring and frustrating. I was watching a player that commentates on these matches playing, and it was laughable to frustrating to see him blunder around; he had a true skill rating in the 20s but couldn't hold his basic economy together. A good chunk of the players in this game are playing under the influence of things and trying to have fun--which generally doesn't mean playing like an ideal player and specifically often means NOT playing as an ideal player and NOT playing against people playing as ideal players. Let me know if you play some games against Drongo and manage to make him leak significantly in a game that you or your team wins. I'd be fascinated to see how your strategic and tactical insights work out.

[@HauthyPiyces]

ay if this aint the good old setons clutch, even if its changed a bit.

[@colecook834]

A remake of selon clutch? NICE

[@Alexandragon1]

25:29 LMAO Thx for the video!

[@tonypringles2285]

why would anyone build a ragnarok if a calamity is cheaper longer ranger and does more damage then?

[@bigmaxporter]

This is my first exposure to this game, it looks awesome

[@austinstoner1988]

It is badass. So is the original total annihilation. There's probably 5 or 6 games inspired by total annihilation that are just as good.

[@Josephkerr101]

"that would be Drongo." XD

[@benjaminstoker4493]

Oh lord. Seatons has infected this game too now.

[@howtoappearincompletely9739]

Seatons?

[@abusethesun]

This game should have ended by 28min -- enemy had 4 dead players but you guys risked losing (e.g. red died) because everyone stopped playing once the Calamity went up. You should have gone right to bomber spam or frontline T3 to actually push the remaining bases. If they had better backline, they could have comeback

[@HungryPunkr]

In trying to protect myself, I ended up just being a trampoline for those shots to obliterate Nitsua. Lol, unforeseen consequences and all that.

[@KAClown]

@@HungryPunkr You did what you needed to do and ended up holding out for quite a while. Your team mates could have done better in terms of defense. A lot of these games I'm watching have me very perplexed about why no one is building backline defenses or they're putting up paltry and spotty backline defense. Like when I first started watching Drongo at the start of this month, I was perplexed by people being like "it's 10 minutes in, I need to get anti-nuke up." and I'm looking at their base as it's being hammered by grunts because it has no defensive line or a single laser tower or something like that. The meta seems to favor "all in on economy strategy" where players don't bother with defenses and just die the moment that a stray shot veers into them or the moment their forward team members crumble from insufficient logistic support from the backline. If the players were communicating and coordinating a lot better then people would be going for sub 20 minute calamity/ragnaroks etc as a team with unit spam being the gap filling measure. Unit spam wins a lot of games that are played in the current meta, but the current meta is being played in ways where its unsustainable and generally facilitates shortish games. World class teams of players would be ripping through all of this with stupid amounts of coordinated construction plane spam and superfriending via high-fiving economies. I'm frankly surprised by the number of longer and larger games being played by high rated players where they're NOT spamming nukes from the backline. Like sure, building one nuke isn't viable and anti-nukes are cheap, but if a whole team goes all in on getting to the point where they can spam nuke construction like they regularly are spamming T3 construction then you can hammer the current meta to pieces. Most players don't build enough anti-nukes in one spot to survive more than a couple nukes at once. If two backliners start sending out a nuke each then 2 nukes each then 3 nukes each... you'll get through every defense I've seen and it won't cost nearly as much as the unit spam I'm seeing. In Total Annihilation, the early game is balanced towards unit spam wins, but the late and super late game is always decided by exponential strategies which is not in general unit spam.

[@Sorain1]

@@KAClown Honestly the lack of coordinated "Push out an Early Advanced Fusion, then that player starts donating them out to rush to T2 economy for the entire team." from, say, nearly the entire back line, still confuses me. The first AFIS is such a massive jump in power production and the resulting jumps in metal production that I can't see how it wouldn't end up being a winning strategy over the individual eco setups I keep seeing. Yeah, it requires a little coordination/communication to get started, but provided your front line doesn't fold immediately, the sheer advantage of scaling faster would quickly be near insurmountable.

[@KAClown]

@@Sorain1 Part of what is going on is that the players don't exactly trust each other to win the game, and they're trained to 0 down their metal as much as possible; it is good for them to not have excess resources floating around unused. I suspect most players think they alone know how best to use their resources; I know that I'm pretty good at the theoretical stuff, but my clicking dexterity and retention of the minutiae of keyboard shortcuts is not great, and I'd rather not be microing units in combat if at all possible, so I'm more than happy to handle the econ booming and letting the combat players make unit production decisions. Another part of it is that most players are I think not terribly familiar with cooperative mechanics like this in RTSes. In the commentary and casting, most players are paying attention to who threw what units or who had a nice looking economy, but a lot of players are not noticing and commenting much on when a team wins because a player has done A+ econ strategy and set their overflow sliders down to ensure everyone is getting a share of the econ. A lot of the players don't seem to notice when the team is overflowing into each other resulting in wastage. And the interface I think could use some significant work for allowing players to see at a glance who is giving how much to whom.

[@PatrickMG19]

is there not any fog of war in this game? :(

[@howtoappearincompletely9739]

There is for the players, but the spectator's view has the fog off by default.

[@shadowmeister5432]

This reminds me of Zero-K

[@Yamototamto]

Is this new Supreme commander?

[@christianresel8051]

*spits* supreme fail? Nope, this the new Total Annihilation, also called the BETTER SC. Its sad and good that BAR lasted this long realy, but i dont see it having a big future.

[@crstnio]

This game looks incredible!!!

[@pallingtontheshrike6374]

dragons feel like a meme lol

[@HonshuHigamori]

>annihilates your enemy's base once it gets behind the front lines >is air so it can come from any angle >tanky enough to shrug off anything but the most determined antiair nice meme people sleep on dragons just because AA is so cost effective, but it requires a lot more AA to fend off a determined dragon attack than what'll work for regular bombing runs. otherwise the dragons just kill the AA then your base

[@AidanNaut0]

​@@HonshuHigamori thats nice and all, but good luck getting up and keeping the economy to sustain those dragons when up against players who know how to play.

[@HonshuHigamori]

@@AidanNaut0 he said in the commentary portion of a video about a 22 minute calamity

[@Retchmack]

Ahh I didn't quite realise how bad MrIrish start was for the sea. Although I guess its easy to get complacent if your starting spot doesn't contest sea. Also Nitsua should have scouted.

[@UBik0013]

(BOO)Bies my spirit animal

[@UnnLykley]

buzzsaw gaming

[@kamuishiru]

on the north island are no buildings over the full game =)

[@jasperskwar4824]

free to play Supreme Commander?

[@ParadiseSoMuch]

drongoo stop im trying to do it also xD

[@patrickwasp]

This looks like a budget supreme commander. Does this have a bigger player base?

[@deamonomic]

you do realize now you have to challenge yourself repeatedly to getting the calamity ever quicker, next time get teammates to help speed it up if they can, i mean what if the entire team was working towards getting one up (not solely but helping)

[@KAClown]

You can theoretically get sub 10 minutes depending on how much the numbers overall differ from TA. A lot of these games go the way they do because we're watching what are called PUGs (Pick Up Groups) in some other multiplayer games; this is to say that most of these players are casually playing the game together and are relying on the game's match making software or informal methods of filling slots in a game, and this is opposed to dedicated teams that work together, play together as a block, and train together. Drongo talks about what this ends up meaning in terms of tactics and strategies; for the most part, he's not relying on the team to do any heavy coordination with him, and he's mostly not communicating with them about what he's doing in large part because the overhead of that communication and the risk of things like information leaks in the communication channels means that it is more costly to his time and attention to try to get the team to pull together than the likely benefit. It would be fun to see teams speed-running various strategies like this and leaderboards for world records.

[@DoctorTaco]

So why are players self destructing their commanders?

[@MoonManPictures]

Seems like a very low elo lobby though. Doesn't seem quite viable

[@sapequinha1362]

Lo, Zero K

[@woodwyrm]

totes not Setons Clutch lmao

[@carlod5818]

o look its setons

[@Krathwar]

Why do people prefer this game over Supreme Commander? It just feels like a no name brand SC to me

[@Michael-ek2eb]

I still laugh at how obviously they ripped off Supreme Commanders Setons Clutch. Shameless copy.

[@TheBrDeath]

this doesn't seem like a great strat. this seems like a VERY imbalanced skill level between players. this might just be a supcom biased thought process. but you gave unopposed map control of your pond. and your opponent did nothing with it. did not secure the island eco that is easier for you to access or create ANY pressure be that on you their natural opponent, or on the middle bases. they just stopped playing when you had no navy. they saw you had no presence in the pond and decided to not keep pushing? ignoring defense to just eco boom at a front position is a wood league type idea that people have when they only play vs braindead AI. the second a competent pvp player figures you're neglecting offensive pressure for eco they will rush you. rushing a game ender is funny sure, but its still just a one-dimensional cheese strat that only works against noobs. maybe BAR is massively different. just looks like the playerbase isnt large enough for representative skill based matchmaking

[@svensk_elevsvg3322]

SETONNNNNNNNNNNNN

[@funchicko]

СЕТОООООООООООООООООООООООООООООООООООООООООООООООООООООООООООООООООООООООООООООООООООН

[@supersasquatch]

why so much antidragon hatred lol

[@Boomatic]

I love bar but lobby's are soooo toxic

[@Ace-gw4uk]

Remember this. This game will raise in popularity and then die for no reason.

[@christianresel8051]

Its not even remotly popular, only a basic minority that holds on to older day's with better games play it realy... IF it would be popular i would have known YEARS ago that this game exists, happened to see it 12 or so months ago, tested it, vomited because its a bland ripoff of TA, droped it. Thats how it went. If i want to play TA, i play frelling TA!

[@tonypringles2285]

these rts games where you have to be so zoomed out you cant see your people fighhting at so boring. i dont want to see a bunch of symbols on a map moving...