This changes everything for virtual composers :\

[@monoverantus]

No worries, I'll just generate paying clients with AI too

[@RunarLundvall]

xD

[@Maplefoxx-vl2ew]

@@RunarLundvall this changes absolutely nothing for virtual composers.. i know you just doing this for views with your clickbait title tho, sorry if i'm coming off rude, i'm not trying to be.. I just am kinda upset so many ppl promoting udio as "the next big thing" it's not.. it's not legal to claim anything it creates as your own product either. that's why it is free. they are covering their own butts.

[@RunarLundvall]

@@Maplefoxx-vl2ew Not rude at all, I welcome discussions wholeheartedly. It's not about Udio specifically, but the technological advancements we are facing. What Udio does was unheard of just 9 months ago. Let's watch the development and see where AI and samples are in another 9 months :P Going to be very interesting to see how the whole discussion of copyright will evolve too.

[@sturlestrausslisaethcomposer]

Im really glad I enjoy the creation process as much as I do, and I feel sorry for those who compose for a living😢

[@RunarLundvall]

Yes, the enjoyment-aspect is crucial for both my creative process and wellbeing, to be honest. But this is happening either way - and I'm not gonna sit around and act like it's not gonna be a part of the game in the future.

[@ttttiiimmy10bit]

I wonder if each thing it produces can be truly unique ?

[@ttttiiimmy10bit]

i had it make a few club bangers and they were really shit, so i feel a bit better for the time being.

[@RunarLundvall]

Luckily that is my impression most of the time too! Nowhere near the coherent output I expect from it.

[@JohanSamuel]

Yes, I'm sorry to say that this actually sound really beautiful, both in composition as well as in sound. I'm trying to learn film/game/trailer-music composing myself, and have invested quiet a lot of time and money in courses and sample libraries and so on. It is still just a hobby of course, but it sure does take some of the fun out of it. The time and effort to learn a craftmanship seems less and less important. I wonder though how this sound is achieved? I mean... to me it sounds maybe even better then most sample libraries and virtual instruments. I guess it does not "write" the music line by line and "mixes" it, rather than just forms the soundwaves and frequencies it has learnt to use. But I have not a clue... does anyone else know?

[@RunarLundvall]

I feel this - spent tons of time and money on gear and practice too.. I wish I could tell you details on how the software works, but I have no clue myself unfortunately. Maybe some other users can join the conversation with some enlightening details

[@fverrieres]

Sorry but it's not beautiful at all ! even the sound and the composition : it sounds like a casual film game trailer composers. The question is: do the AI can reach the best composers in 2 months 2 years or 20 years ? nobody can say that and if the best composers are able to integrate AI, then everything will stay the same with a world with very bad casual, bad casual, good, and very good composers like before AI

[@RunarLundvall]

@@fverrieres I disagree, I think it sounds better in terms of sonic qualities and spatial placements of instruments, than most mockups I hear. The biggest downpoints for me are the obvious faults in composition, the structure and the shortcuts.

[@fverrieres]

@@RunarLundvall yes i agree chords changes are not correct sometimes mainly for contrapuntic rules … Even the violon lead is a bit hiératic on intervals. Ok for mix if you have good speakers i have only headphone

[@JohanSamuel]

Yes, I can agree. Even me, with not much musictheory knowledge and untrained ears understand that this isn’t a masterpiece by any means. But compared to what AI music usel to sound like not that long ago (feels like 15 minutes ago) this is a giant leap. And most of the listeners/users this is aimed for (not top tier composers) probably won’t really hear that much of a difference. Or care about the difference. 😕

[@zaharishtonov]

It’s all right. I can feel some gaps compositionally and some unnatural pauses that an orchestra won’t do. Quality of “samples” otherwise is among the best.

[@RunarLundvall]

Yep, really agree with that! I wish I could edit those stems and tweak some MIDI :P

[@zaharishtonov]

@@RunarLundvall - It’s probably just a matter of time until they make that available. At least the stems part. Then it becomes a real tool for composers!

[@RunarLundvall]

@@zaharishtonov That would be sooo helpful! :D

[@zaharishtonov]

@@RunarLundvall - So, it turns out that you can do stems! Don’t know how but I just found out that it is possible!

[@RunarLundvall]

@@zaharishtonov Inside of Udio??

[@handznet]

It is fascinating tool but you cant create anything coherent, it always generate something different, subtle changes are not possible BUT - if someone make and AI that will convert midi / sheet music to this sound quality, creating practically realistic sounding mockup based on notes you wrote, that will be finally what we were waiting all life. No more nerving with limited sample libraries.

[@Vivaildi]

Udio is reviewing the idea of midi export...

[@Vivaildi]

I use it to get themes. Udio is very good at themes when you prompt it properly. Actually it generated one that i listen almost every day because it is original, epic, the melody is original, etc. Of course, it has taken lot of time to generate each part, as i wanted the track to take the directions i had in my mind, but it delivered something so good that it could easily be in at least a video game as a theme. I am a musician for 20 years, it hurts me so bad. I have the feeling my soul is being ereased by AI. What makes us unique if anybody can do anything ? I toy with it, and maybe will re-arrange some tracks i've generated with Udio. I try to live already in the future not to be has been. History always keep going, it never stops, nothing we can do about it. The most impact it will (and has already" will be on the global labor market. Millions of jobs will be wiped out in the next 3 years. Note : the tracks you generate on udio also are the property of udio. They have all rights to use it too. ALSO for your tracks if you upload one track on their platform to "put a voice on it" or anything else. Copyright is now an issue, i think there will be so many chaotic times concerning copyrights in the next 2 years that it will disapear or we will have to insert our DNA into each track as a watermark. Imagine if one day Udio decides all tracks generated on their platform are their property. They'll get billionaires just with content id strikes.

[@amarug]

I hate AI ........... (PS: I am literally an engineer myself, I make music for fun and relaxation and I am already p*ssed off. Can't even imagine how pros must feel)

[@RunarLundvall]

Yeah, seems like a rough ride ahead in certain scenarios. However, I will not act as it's not a thing though, better to embrace it and learn it from the beginning. I'll continue to write with samples the "old" way, but will probably include certain AI elements in my workflow when the time is ready.

[@fverrieres]

@@RunarLundvall yes ! i'm exactly on the same position and very curious to watch your next videos on that ;-)

[@RunarLundvall]

@@fverrieres Nice, i think we will see that approach from many composers in the upcoming months!

[@orctimusprime9029]

Scary man. I agree it's a tool we can use, i just hope it doesnt take jobs from artists. The ideal utopia would be ai working on the mundane aspects of life so humans can hone their artistic talents.

[@RunarLundvall]

Me too, man! AI can do expression maps customization and VEP-track assignments, but let me play my oboe in peace.

[@micheleduritto]

"i just hope it doesnt take jobs from artists" i mean, it has happened already with visual artists....so it is going to happen, unless we stop actively supporting it (just by not using it in any way shape or form) that is of course, or we actively try to stop it, like with things like data poisoning etc etc.

[@Vivaildi]

Taking jobs is one thing, taking the soul of humans is an other one. This is how AI will dominate and erease us, not physically, but mentally.

[@tobiaslandmann54]

Why is there just such a great focus on ai to create something that takes away our creative process? I mean, no doubt this is impressive but where is the fun if ai just generates everything for you?

[@sturlestrausslisaethcomposer]

Couldnt agree more

[@RunarLundvall]

No fun at all, actually :P Just impressive and scary. That being said, I will not act as if its not a thing, or just a fad. I can imagine AI elements being parts of the music making process in the future, and I want to join it now. But the fact that there are lot of problematic scenarios connected to this, I will not deny at all.

[@micheleduritto]

@@RunarLundvall "and i want to join it now" see, that is the problem, if you join it, then you are helping developing what is going to take your job away in the future, simple as that. "but it is going to happen anyway" if most musicians and composer don't join it, then it will not happen anyway, but if you think it is going to happen anyway, and that other people are not going to stop anyway, then you are fullfilling your own prophecy, you are the one making it happen, you are the one making it so that it becomes inevitable, not us, not me.

[@RunarLundvall]

@@micheleduritto I see where you are coming from and I fully understand that feeling. First of all, this is not my job. I will expect most professional musicians to try to stall this as long as possible though, and from their professional standpoint that also makes total sense. But to say that we can stop this gigantic snowball just from withstanding using it is not something I agree on. It's happening all over creative media, heck even in most IT-related fields. We can adapt or we can close our eyes. I'm gonna go for the first option.

[@amarug]

I am an engineer myself, who has used AI for over decade now, long before it was capable of doing the things it can do now. In an ideal world, we would have only used AI to improve health care, solve complex geopolitical issues, world hunger. Create a you know, Utopia, so that everyone would have the chance of doing things like art and music if they wanted to. Instead, we have more war, hunger and pandemics than ever, but at least we are trying to get rid of artists. You know, Dystopia. I don't want to be too dark, but it is just sadly the case that visual art and music follows certain patterns and there is a LOT of training data that can be mined online, so to flex their tech, engineers just used this "low hanging fruit". It's easy to impress everyone with it, get funding etc. Rather than going down the scary and messy path of trying to for example find better drugs to treat diseases (which is done as well of course, but not on the same scale). Idk where we are headed. I learned coding for years and years and for a long time I was the reference guy people came to ask for help etc. It felt good to have invested so much time into a skill and then it provided useful to others and being able to use it to help others made me feel relevant. Since GPT no one ever asked me anything. I also draw digital art and compose music for fun, but I really struggle to find motivation in any of the things I used to enjoy. Let's stay strong and try to think of these things as new tools and think of ways how we can use them but still put our own skills and ideas into play.

[@maestrospolzino]

I still think this won't end the work of those who compose. There is no doubt that this will DRASTICALLY reduce the possibilities of work in our career, but in the same way that the Industrial Revolution did not end the employment of craftsmans, I don't think it will end the work of the composer itself. And of course, there is a legal dispute about copyright surrounding this. As far as I've seen, the position of the USA, Continental Europe and Latin America is that there is no copyright for anything involving AI (which is a different position from the United Kingdom, China and India). Therefore, for commercial purposes, using AI means making use of works in the public domain in most countries in the world. I don't know if most companies will like to save money on this. But in any case, there's nothing we can do about this technology itself. I doubt they will simply ban the use of this worldwide.

[@RunarLundvall]

I think you're on to something very important here, vital to this whole AI-discussion. I was not aware of those copyright-differences, thanks for brining that to my attention.

[@maestrospolzino]

@@RunarLundvall You're welcome, Runar! In fact, I think the biggest problem for the future is proving whether or not a music was composed by an AI, since our work is digital... Furthermore, what there is no doubt is that this will really take away the work of those who compose music for databases (music libraries like Epidemic Sound), in other words: the vast MAJORITY of the composition work. But when it comes to films, games and advertising, one of the reasons why the use of this is not rampant is this issue of public domain (of course there are companies that use it, but not the majority). Therefore, we should be worried about this, but we don’t need to despair!

[@RunarLundvall]

@@maestrospolzino Another fine comment. The library music-aspect seems to be pretty crucial! Do you think this snowball can be stopped in any way? Considering international legislation, laws, public interest, economical consideration and general surge of AI-tech development these days?

[@maestrospolzino]

@@RunarLundvall It's very difficult to say, because on the other side there are China and India (in addition to the United Kingdom, which in my opinion, is on the "dark side of the force"). For these countries, the copyright goes to the company that made the software. So, in "theory", even if the public interest and international legislation are totally against the use of AI, nothing prevents a Western company from migrating to one of these countries (especially the United Kingdom and India) and making a film, game, advertisement, or anything else with these unfavorable laws. In situations like this, there is a direct international conflict regarding laws, and it is very difficult to reverse the situation. To some extent, this is more or less similar to the emergence of the Pirate Bay in Sweden. The entire world had strong copyright laws regarding the use of music, except Sweden. Therefore, it took YEARS for countries to ban the use of piratebay, even though it still existed. So, I believe that if there is a solution for us regarding AI, the path will be more or less similar to this, but as I said above, I think it is unlikely that a ban will occur (there is a lot of money involved), however, IF there is a reversal, one of the possible paths is this. Let's wait (and hope) for the best outcome for us!

[@RunarLundvall]

@@maestrospolzino I could listen to you go on about this for ages. Ever considered a podcast? Or maybe I should just interview you on my channel?

[@NikolaiMusicChannel]

Wow, yes, the future is approaching quickly! Very impressive AI generated music. Of course, the consequences of this we'll have to see going forward. I agree that we can't stick our head in the sand with this technology, even if we don't like it, it is here and will become even better in the future. Although, I do think there will be a use for human creativity and guidance, even with AI being able to render impressive sound files like this. I do hope this will be available as a more hybrid solution in the future, with more customisable use, where you can feed it midi or sheet music, and it can create quick and great mockups of your music, and quicken the workflow of arranging. If the end sound product becomes too good, I fear more for the sample libraries and studio musicians than the composers, as I do think there is a need for a human in control to deliver a meaningful end result, not just by text prompting and creating things in "the style of...". For example in film music, I would think it would be hard for an AI adequately interpret a scenes (real) emotion, subtext and nuances in a meaningful way. But maybe that will come with AI 2.0, who knows. And for live music, I bet people will still enjoy hearing live music in the future, with real people on stage, and I don't see AI taking over the live scene any time soon. But some integration here will surely come as well in some way. Exciting, a bit scary, but here it is no matter how we feel about it 😅I will either way continue to work on my compositions, learning the craft, and bettering my skills, as I do think it will still matter now and in the future, with or without AI integrated in my workflow 😊

[@RunarLundvall]

Very well said, man. I really hope your predictions are the way it will evolve!

[@EvgeniyBerlin]

I think AI will make us to valuate the "hand-crafted music" much more. Mainly because of 2 reasons 1. The AI generated music is just copying other people's ideas, because it's the only thing it can do 2. If everyone can log into the website and generate a theme, this makes the outcome less valuable

[@RunarLundvall]

These are very interesting thoughts to the whole AI-discussion! Personally I think professional will approach it as a hybrid, where they still craft original material, but use AI in certain scenarios because they can, and maybe also because competition demands it. Time will tell!

[@RicoDerks]

Insane 😮😢

[@RunarLundvall]

Let's start salmon-export

[@GavinNellist]

It’s really nice too, better than anything I’ve composed I’d say

[@RunarLundvall]

I feel just the same way.

[@GavinNellist]

@@RunarLundvall You are a great composer though so you should have no fears. All this is doing is creating noise, there is no score so an orchestra won't be able to play it.

[@RunarLundvall]

@@GavinNellist Thank you for your kind comment! I wonder if something like a audio to midi - feature will be able to work on such material in the future. What do yo think? It works already with single instrument melody/harmony but obviously huge struggles involved when trying to tackle a symphonic orchestra.

[@GavinNellist]

@@RunarLundvall you’re welcome. I think it will be difficult for something to identify the different instruments although not beyond the realms of possibility

[@CornelisJordaan]

But, it doesn't matter how good something is if it isn't interesting... my interest in these creations is near 0 haha. Give me a simple home-cooked meal from a friend any day rather than the perfectly blended herbs and spices in a perfectly cooked meal from some fast food restaurant :)

[@mysurf66]

😭 you said it

[@RunarLundvall]

Exciting and scary times :O