This Character Holds the ENTIRE Star Trek Timeline Together...

[@OrangeRiver]

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[@justinhobbs8646]

time police don't exist without the red angel stopping control and once disco got modded in the future is where we see that suspectly that it seems bigger on the inside just like that time ship in enterprise that was from before time travel was banned oh and in any future trek in the early 2400s means we could see older versions of the prodigy crew

[@jaynedavies2757]

the time travelling storylines are wreaking star trek. they are boring and don't progress anything. please stop

[@markger1701]

Getting a message that the code cannot be used in my region, NJ, USA.

[@markger1701]

😢

[@claytonberg721]

That whole thing about Una being offended that she might a 'pinup girl' is meta and hilarious because Rebecca Romjin is an actual pinup girl.

[@yeenmachine206]

This implies pinup posters are still a thing in Star Trek. No matter how enlightened we get, some things will never change

[@DavidAnderson-m5c]

@@yeenmachine206 And it isn't her "chin" we're interested in.

[@claytonberg721]

@@yeenmachine206 People enjoy looking at beautiful people. I don't think that's ever going to change.

[@NeverDoneEver]

​@@yeenmachine206the fact that Mariner was unsure what Una meant by a pinup poster implies that the current definition was still in use in the 23rd century, but not the late 24th century.

[@xyreniaofcthrayn1195]

Star trek canon can be summed up to a potential Q quote: Where one sees a thread, I see a tapestry, where one sees a tapestry, I see a thread it's all a matter of viewpoint regardless.

[@marshallhuffer4713]

24:44 - what's funny is that Jerry O'Connell, who voices Ransom, is married IRL to Rebecca Romanjn, who plays Una.

[@TheSummer750]

Whoa, Holy Six Degrees of Wil Wheaton. He co-starred with Wil Wheaton in Stand by Me (1986).

[@StevenJQuinlan]

That certainly explains why Ransom considers her the hottest first officer in history😂

[@EleneDOM]

@@TheSummer750 And we can't forget Sliders.

[@ZachsMind]

Wow! Jerry O'Connell married Rebecca Romanjn !? That lucky bastard!

[@christopherstephenjenksbsg4944]

This video was DEFINITELY worth making! Thanks Tyler.

[@canis2020]

One could argue that it's actually "Shut Up Wesley!" who is holding things together.

[@gousmc1983]

Especially once he F'd off with the traveler! Lol

[@canis2020]

@@gousmc1983 too true

[@thefearhawk8805]

And I thought JarJar was the key to all of it. He was the funniest character we ever had...

[@Dancestar1981]

@@canis2020he returns in Star Trek Prodigy Season 2

[@canis2020]

@@Dancestar1981 that's my point. What has he said he has been doing?

[@davidponseigo8811]

I must say it is we or us , the viewers of Star Trek that is holding the Star Trek Universe together. If we stop watching and reading Star Trek and making or watching KZbin content about Star Trek than the universe falls apart. So I say it is us the fans that keep it together !

[@STSWB5SG1FAN]

And to that I should add that famous mantra from MST3K "... just repeat to yourself, ' It's just a show' and you really should relax".

[@gustymaat7011]

Don't let western headlamp anywhere near a star trek story

[@JohnDlugosz]

Ever hear of the novel _Redshirts_ ? In it, this idea is made explicit.

[@oldylad]

And it’s also fans responsibility to ensure that what the corporate overlords decide is good

[@andrewlonghofer]

My particular favorite theory to explain the timeline issues is partially based on the idea that the Eugenics Wars are a covert war happening in some kind of augment-led Illuminati factional infighting, and partially based on Pike’s monologue at the end of the SNW pilot: if it started as the second American civil war, that likely involved some kind of conspiratorial thinking. What if that conspiratorial thinking was a) focused on augments instead of Q-anon and b) actually right? Then Pike’s description of a blurring from the second American civil war into the Eugenics Wars into WWIII is a sort of unveiling of a veiled conflict. If the La’an/Kirk adventure in Toronto is its own little loop, rather than the prime timeline, that would take care of that. But also, the Trek timeline isn’t the real world timeline, and I’m okay with Khan being 12 years old in the 2020s *and* the Botany Bay launching in 1996 the same way I’m okay with the Trill getting spots and losing their forehead ridges and having distinct merged personalities rather than the host subsuming into the symbiont’s.

[@stefanberanek2589]

Endless numbers of universes and timelines coexist simultanously, never forget this! Great video! Thank you!

[@rmdodsonbills]

Considering all the time travel in Trek from TOS on, I'd say the nature of the Trek Timeline is "malleable."

[@DrewLSsix]

My go to assumption when considering all the major and minor continuity issues of the franchise is, every single episode or film can conceivably be in its own distinct timeline, like theres jo reason to assume that every week we were watching the same exact crew and ship. Season 3 episode 7 ends, and episode 8 picks up in an entirely different if very similar branch of the timeline. Thats why theres a James T Kirk amd a James R Kirk....

[@MrLoverThe]

Time travel happens in Trek so often I think of it as a time traveling scifi franchise.

[@JohnDlugosz]

@@DrewLSsix The middle name is retconned in a never-finished Fan Film in 2010. Set where Kirk is a student, he remarks to his roommate, "Ready is my middle name!" before going off on his prequel adventure. "I'll remember that!" responds Gary Mitchell. I think that footage was recovered or at least posted in 2014 by Friend of the Show David Gerrold. It's called "The Protracted Man".

[@CalebThomasMedia]

I think Prodigy Season 2 gives us the ultimate out- "Wesley did it." haha

[@canis2020]

@@CalebThomasMedia I just got there last night and when did he become Jack Sparrow? Even in Picard he was calm and reassuring. What the hell happened?

[@ikani1]

@@canis2020 in Picard he wasn't so much playing Wesley as playing Wil Weaton doing a cameo. Picard didn't really give him anything to do, whereas Prodigy did a good job of actually integrating a legacy character into their story. It worked well, I think!

[@STho205]

A lot of SNW is adapted from Orville. Their 1st season had a lot of the same base plots as Or ille S3 that same year. Like DS9 was borrowing from the 5 year outline of B5 that Paramount had studied for 6 months before "passing" on B5. Orville is The Kelley Show. She is the fixed point in time character that spawns everything in the show.

[@ryanhau1073]

I am convinced that the "Pin Up Poster" conversation in Those Old Scientists was a nod to Rebecca Romijn being a Swimsuit Model. Anyhow, I just realized that Romijn was in the X-Men Movies, an IP that touch on similar themes to the Strange New Worlds episode Ad Astra per Aspera

[@EleneDOM]

She was also central in The Librarians, which is worth checking out.

[@TDCinAZ]

I really like Number One, and Rebecca Romijn's performance is great, but I have mixed feelings on the episode Ad Astra per Aspera. They can't really analyze the nuances and real dangers of genetic enhancement because they've written the Illerians to be so directly representative of oppressed minorities. When DS9 did the Bashir genetic enhancement plot line, it was treated like the complex issue it actually is, and they had much more interesting things to say. I prefer when episodes connect some aspects of a Sci-Fi premise to historical/modern issues rather than make the entire premise an allegory (e.g. Measure of a Man vs The Outcast)

[@OrangeRiver]

I certainly think those criticisms are valid. I saw a lot of people tout "Ad Astra per Aspera" as the best Trek episode of the 21st century, and I'm just sitting here thinking, "I mean, it was fine" 😂

[@agzane268]

In the context of trek as a whole I think it makes sense. We've seen the bad side of genetic modification time and time again (khan, the augments in enterprise, the suliban, and dominion), so the strict laws of the federation are logical, but nonetheless the depersonal nature of federation law can lead to some peoples having their rights taken away for doing nothing wrong (as they were eager to do with data for example)

[@stopinventing1013]

Completely agree.

[@TheTransporter007]

Both Majel Barrett and Rebecca Romijn have portrayed the character outstandingly. Beautiful, spectacularly skilled actresses. We couldn't have asked for better.

[@Dragondude2525]

In my mind, Star Trek exists in an almost floating timeline where minor things are subject to change as every temporal incursion does manage to alter the timeline, if even in a minor way, but every time it’s set back to the so-called status quo there’s certain events that are maintained as having taken place, but might alter in some aspect to some degree.

[@Bionickpunk]

Every time the set designs change for the same dates, then we should consider it some sort of temporal change, best seen in TOS era shows.

[@TheRezro]

That literally is not a theory. Literally every series do not end in same timeline as it started! -Kirk most notable temporal "crime" was taking whales from the past. He has long list of crimes. -In TNG we learn that current timeline is result of saving Ambasador class. Picard also break temporal loop. -In DS9 Sisko must take place of historical figure, who play major role in history and is temporal anomaly himself. Oh, and Quark actually did create Federation, as his crash in Roswell lead to construction of Botany Bay. -In Voyager Janeway massively alter time, to shorten time of mission. And it isn't even first time. One of crew save Voyager from destruction in the past and Jeneway help in breaking temporal loop in the 90's. -In Enterprise Archer become major player of Temporal Cold War. Whole attack on Florida is a time anomaly! -Discovery prevent mass extinction event and technically alter future in Mirror Universe. -Picard. Technically in this case they prevent Terra Prime timeline. But which timeline was original? -SNW before someone say anything. Chance of date of Eugenic war actually align with stuff established in Voyager (where they forget that Eugenic War should happen in 90's) and actually align with Enterprise, which implied that Eugenic War was part of WW3. So whole thing with Khan actually plug massive plot hole. And TBH it sort of make sense that TOS actually take place in different timeline then rest of the series. Specifically Eugenic War prevent construction of Utopia Planitia and cause earlier colonization and lost of human culture.

[@Dragondude2525]

@@Bionickpunk not necessarily. They’ve said it time and time again that visual representation and style choices are just that. Style choices, unless otherwise acknowledged in-universe.

[@Dragondude2525]

@@TheRezro again, I was talking about every time they “fix” the timeline and set things right again, that even if things look correct or mostly correct, minor changes still affect the time stream in some way. I’ll pose a hypothetical example, not one from the show, you go back in time and accidentally prevent something from happening, changing your time line, but then you go further back to correct the issue, but your approach to correcting the issue is different from your original timeline. Maybe you stole someone’s hat for a disguise, and the owner of that hat needed to then buy a new hat, which took them somewhere they weren’t supposed to go in your original timeline, causing the most minor of changes… but all the broad strokes, the major factors of the issue all got resolved in the correct way to maintain the timeline. That, that could be a way of reconciling retcons in the narrative of a story. Oh this event was supposed to happen at 1pm on this day, but minor adjustments caused it to now happen 3 months later. Still happened, still involved a similar outcome, just slightly different approach to getting there.

[@TheRezro]

​@@Dragondude2525 Yes. There is even a fancy term for that. A hyperverse. Basically every major series do not end in same timeline as it stared. Of course I wish that creators would keep things more straight. But fans should not pretend that it always was not the case.

[@jarifauti4586]

"Have to call my agent on Kamino."

[@kurtsnyder4752]

Not only O'Brian who hates temporal shit, Janeway does also, gives her migraines.

[@jwurnig]

Which is weird because Voyager hit the reset button via time shenanigans more than all the other series put together.

[@JohnDlugosz]

What if migraines in humans -- which are legitimately still somewhat mysterious -- *are* caused by temporal shifts?

[@JohnDlugosz]

@@jwurnig Yes, I think that's lazy writing.

[@walterlyzohub8112]

It might also be possible the Illyrians were people who are colonists from the planet El-Auria. Making her like Guinan holding the time lines in place. Well the El-Aurian did travel so why not?

[@kurtsnyder4752]

Or the Els were the colonists.

[@Lee883]

Their depiction of the Gorn was awesome. Much better than a guy in a rubber suit, they had to change it. Considering they are supposed to be a terrifying enemy i think they got the look just right.

[@OrangeRiver]

I do think people complained way too much about their portrayal, yep lol

[@TheRezro]

@@OrangeRiver Even if it was not inaccurate.

[@kurtsnyder4752]

Saw the pre augment virus Gorn in that Mirror universe Enterprise episode.

[@TheRezro]

@@kurtsnyder4752 Gorn may have several sub-species. Grow up Gorn also start looking and acting more humanoid.

[@BCWasbrough]

While I love what SNW did to update and improve The Gorn, it does make Kirk surviving hand-to-hand combat with one of their captains far less plausible.

[@JohnSheffield1963]

My opinion of the mess of the Trek timeline is that laziness is a primary reason for it. In the TOS days they just pulled a year out of the air, because they didn't think it would matter, spawning multiple retcons. Archer and crew, along with the Temporal Civil War should have been treated as a bigger secret, so that it would make sense when TOS though time travel was impossible. The Gorn in Strange New Worlds should have been named something different, but one of the show runners just couldn't leave the guy in the rubber suit that Kirk fought alone. It wouldn't have been that hard for Kirk in Strange New Worlds to have not been read in about time travel.

[@dramonmaster222]

Number One is one of my favorite characters next to Captain Pike. Plus, I need to read these Star Trek comics.

[@knightspearhead5718]

With all the agents that influence our view of the star trek universe i wouldnt be surprised if some of the series exist in there own timeline. But we know at least some of them exist in the same timeline with references that are made like with Lower Decks mentioning the Xindi war

[@jasonscott7527]

Two time lines or multi verse , jj Abrams time line is all new trek . Paramount admitted this a couple years ago

[@TheRezro]

@@jasonscott7527 It from beginning was an alternative timeline. Though current series do not take place in it (even if they retroactively incorporated some elements).

[@MrZOMFGZORZ]

I haven't seen this spinoff and I don't know most of the characters or the plot, but I see an OR upload I click and like automatically. It is the way of things.

[@michaelhviper]

I feel that with Una's trial it adds to and also holds it together in another way. In DS9 O'brien says to Bashir that there hasn't been a case like him in over a hundred years. I'm starting to think he was referring to Una also being genetically engineered.

[@MrAndyBearJr]

One thing that I wondered about since the Enterprise episode with the Illyrians, was if Archer ever did anything to help the Illyrians he stranded three years from their home. Possibly mount a rescue mission to go back and fix their warp drive, or did he just forget about them and leave that ship and crew to fend for themselves? As a person of integrity, and honor, that should have been numero uno on his list of things to accomplish after ending the sphere builders threat to the galaxy.

[@beezelbuzzel]

Nice video man! With the exception of Lower Decks, I haven't watched much newer Trek. I like staying updated without having to put in the time, so thanks! Also, getting mighty close to 80K there fella. I hope more sponsors take notice!

[@samryan180]

Newer star trek has a lot more misses than hits.

[@TheRezro]

​@@samryan180 According to people who stuck watching only TNG. Trek for the most time has horrible first seasons! That is a rule. Discovery swing in in the middle of first season, has down in third, but overall is excellent series. Picard has slow first season but later is decent. Lover Decks and SNW are masterpiece, Prodigy is ok. What people complain about? Putting aside TOS (horrible last season and thing called TAS, plus that half movies is bad), TNG is really bad in first seasons. Only later ones are great. DS9 was overall great, though even its first seasons have issues. Voyager is bad through entire show, though save grace with likable crew. Enterprise first seasons kill the show! (Archer commit genocide and Tucker become pregnant) It actually become good with the third season, shamefully not many reach it . People who say that new shows are bad, have extremely selective memory!

[@timothylivingston4135]

I find it interesting that Phlox's people practice genetic engineering, but we don't see them in series set later in the timeline.

[@OrangeRiver]

Some show up in Lower Decks and SNW 👀

[@timothylivingston4135]

@@OrangeRiver I must have missed that. I will look for it on my re-watch. I thought I remembered reading something that said in the later timeline that Denobula is in the Romulan territory.

[@OrangeRiver]

Nah, as far as I can tell Denobula is a Federation world. IIRC, a Denobulan officer shows up on the Enterprise in SNW, and Federation-affiliated Denobulan scientists play roles in certain episodes of LD and Discovery :D

[@TammyBeth1015]

Here's something I noticed yesterday rewatching one of my old favorites and my mind remains blown: In Season One Episode 19 of Fringe, Peter and Olivia are interviewing a conspiracy theorist who, once convinced to talk goes on to describe fairly accurately the major mystery that the FBI team is just now beginning to become aware of - that Bell is trying to develop "super soldiers" like Khan to "protect us" - but then this happens- Peter says: "Khan? As in Wrath of"? Guy: "exactly" Peter asks "Protect us from who?" and the guy says "Romulans. Renegade Romulans from the future. Here to change the timeline" Then he goes on to claim to be Spock. I am compelled to assume that the writer of "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow" had this specific scene in mind while writing that episode. Otherwise the coincidence is too epic to be believed.

[@TammyBeth1015]

Presumably Kurtzman since he was a showrunner on Fringe.

[@JohnDlugosz]

Re 24:20 or so: Given that characters can be shielded from _some_ changes to a timeline, and Daniels by the nature of his mission will have experienced an excessive amount of time travel, I think it's fair to say that his person history does not match any one Universal timeline; rather, it's a patchwork of his original timeline and parts of changes that he experienced on his missions, plus changes that occurred due to time-travel that didn't involve him might not affect his personal timeline as it affects "global" time, if he wasn't "home" when it occurred and the change would affect his time-traveling ability. So, his personal timeline is actually paradoxical and can't be referenced to a single global timeline -- it requires multiple histories.

[@reallyjimreally8210]

I had never really thought about the time line of Star Trek. This video was very informative and entertaining! Thank You!

[@MrRurounismc]

Maybe you cover this and Im going to sound silly commenting half way through: but Prodigy season 2 also flatly states that certain events can be moved around a bit, but HAVE to happen to maintain the timelines. Which maps with the Khan retcon in SNW perfectly.

[@joeywall4657]

This was a lot of fun! The tangents are enjoyable, not distracting. And you do tie it all together at the end.

[@OrangeRiver]

Thanks! This is definitely one of the scripts for which I've been the most anxious about how people would receive it.

[@talideon]

Kovacs is Daniels, remember?

[@joseaguilar3323]

That's why I always say that it's better to see Star Trek as a series of generations rather than as a whole single thing. Gen 1 is TOS to TMP. Gen 2 is TWOK to ENT. Gen 3 is 09 to now. The Gens are broadly in continuity with each other but details vary

[@jahipalmer8782]

Okay, so, I think the "messiness" with the timeline is weirdly awesome. Like, it's hard for someone outside of the current timeline (us as viewers) to know what all is "real" and when it is real because we've seen it all. But for the folks in the shows, it all makes perfect sense and is regular because their individual timeline is just the way it has always been.

[@KingoftheJuice18]

Grammar (and pauses) save lives (and meaning). She really would be an incredible character if she was born "at the age of about 5 or 6." 3:25

[@OrangeRiver]

Haha really funny. You knew what I meant smh

[@KingoftheJuice18]

@@OrangeRiver 🤣😇

[@JohnDlugosz]

I laughed at that too.

[@michaellangwaller]

I think this video was well worth it. I look at the Star Trek timeline as described in classic Doctor Who, there are temporal nexus points that have to happen and they have to be big to make changes in the timeline, like throwing a large rock into a river may affect the flow of a river but not its overall path (Khan's birth being moved) whereas a boulder that is big enough to alter the river bank creates a new flow (Daniel's timeline and the Kelvin Timeline). Daniel's timeline occurred as the Spherebuilders were building dams in the time flow. The Kelvin timeline theory put forward also has some changes occurring well before Narada incursion and battle with the USS Kelvin either through the initial red matter trip "bleeding" deep into The Big Bang or the second red matter incident that destroyed the Narada actually sent parts back into The Big Bang, both could have changed early fundamental properties of the universe and creating branching timelines(one explanation for the warp plasma color change).

[@momokomiyafuji396]

When Space Seed was written in 1967, the 90s felt like the far future to them. And they had absolutely no idea that anyone would be talking about Start Trek and Space Seed 60+ years later. Due to Real Life some things need to be changed, like it or not. I'm perfectly content to subscribe to the sliding timeline key-events stuff. It's as good an in-universe explanation as any. That goes for the tech and look as well. I can enjoy the SNW Enterprise set without having a seizure over the bridge not being plywood, pile carpet, and gaffer's tape with control panel covers of wire-mesh from the hardware store. It's the feel it evokes that counts. The lines and contours of the bridge, the corridors, etc. follow classic TOS Federation architecture. And the things they DO keep are the important things. The hope the Federation presents, even though it still stumbles at times. The intelligence and camaraderie of the crew. The drive to learn and explore. To empathize and help. To try to be better. THAT is Star Trek. Everything above is what Abrams movies do NOT do, BTW. I would posit that the so-called Kelvin "Timeline" is actually a separate Universe entirely, like the Mirror Universe. ((instead of Spock's beard, the Enterprise bridge looks like an Apple Store)) Nero's ship and Spock Prime didn't just travel in time they went to a completely different universe. There are major differences between the Kelvin and the Prime that were there BEFORE Nero and Spock's incursion. Now EVERYBODY'S happy. Right? Right??? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@JohnDlugosz]

Yea, and if a high school or Community Theater Group were to produce _Balance of Terror_ as a stage play, the set would not have to look like a TOS Bridge museum piece reconstruction. It would be natural for the built pieces to look more modern in architecture and in function, with chairs and such sourced from inexpensive real-world elements. But the set would not have to look like the TOS set at all, to where people watching say "hey, that's the Enterprise!" when the curtains part. It could be designed like a modern warship bridge, and designed to work well as a stage play, without affecting the actual *plot* being presented.

[@supercrownjosie7732]

For awhile now I've felt that it isn't Modern Trek that broke the timeline, it's Berman Trek. which makes TOS the odd duck, not DIS/SNW/etc. I hadn't thought to frame it all around Una, though. clever!

[@BogeyTheBear]

Far be it from me to contest the notion that Rebecca Romijn is the center of our universe.

[@bdeas]

Star Trek's irrational hatred of genetic engineering is really crazy.

[@Bionickpunk]

Yep, and its kinda weird why other Federation planets would just blindly accept it, even though the prejudice comes solely from Earths own history.

[@TheRezro]

@@Bionickpunk That is actually bit inaccurate. They ban augmentation, they absolutely do use genetic cures and in fact hybridization demand genetic engineering. They just don't like when medics go too far with giving people wings and laser eyes.

[@christheghostwriter]

If by "really crazy," you mean "an interesting narrative device that helps drive plotlines and character conflicts in a fictional universe," then sure.

[@STSWB5SG1FAN]

The whole ban on genetic engineering thing should only apply to Terrans/Earth people, since it was only Earth that had suffered through the Eugenics War. Being an alien those laws shouldn't apply to her, unlike someone who was born on Earth or who is of Earth origins (like Julian Bashir).

[@christheghostwriter]

@@STSWB5SG1FAN why? What if the Earth faction of the Federation simply convinced the other member planets that Earth's view on eugenics (which is what we're really talking about here) should be widely adopted?

[@stevenewman1393]

🖖😎👍Very cool and very greatly nicely well done and very well informatively explained and executed in every detail way shape and format provided on Number One 1st Officer Una and on the Illyrian Species as a race of beings and on their various life styles with in their civilization; Anyways a job very wonderfully well done indeed Sir!👌.

[@jeffreyelmore948]

thanks for this video it clears up alot of the issues i have with new startreck and binds things together properly again thank you you changed my entire view of this franchies

[@jamespurcer3730]

I've just watched a mid-podcast ad from Apple that's about 10 minutes long. and it's so damned funny. A group of white collar employees are sent to Thailand to do business and it becomes an American nightmare that lasts for days on end. I have never seen an ad that was so long and so funny. Kudos, Apple.

[@BrianStevens1]

Also take in account Star Trek IV The Voyage Home where Kirk and crew go back in time to save a Humpback whale. Scotty giving the formula for the plastic piece that the used to assemble the tank to the hold the whales. That event also causes a ripple in the timeline as well when they returned

[@Turtle_ssbm]

I'm always so happy to watch your videos on star trek lore. You don't engage with the reactionary rage bait besides joke about it. And it's always interesting and well compiled.

[@tmutant]

You make all the videos about Star Trek you want, and I will watch them.

[@OrangeRiver]

I would hope you'll also watch some of my other videos :D

[@jamesy1318]

My theory (as we saw her absorb radiation to save Y'ann in S1) is that she will use her power to help save Pike from his fate. That way he can still be in right place at the right time but live without the horrific burns

[@OrangeRiver]

Ooo, that would be really interesting

[@peterlundskow4061]

I thought you did a very good job, explaining it all. Of all the series after Enterprise I think the current one is the best, thanks!

[@Supermunch2000]

To be fair, Rebecca Romijn is doing a great job as Number One, hence the interest in the character

[@carcrash1875]

Rebecca Romijn is doing a great job, period

[@VHVDRAGON]

As usual your videos are insightful, and so well presented. As far a theory, just figured SNW was an alternate reality adjacent to the TOS reality. Bit one thing is for sure ORANGE RIVER is the best Star Trek/SciFi youtube channel in all realities. I would live to see a scene where a crew member aboard the Enterprise is watching ancient videos of your you tube channel....

[@VHVDRAGON]

Make it so.

[@RichardOkerson]

In the words of William Shatner,” It’s just a TV show!” It’s ok though, I’m a Trekie too. Thanks for the video!

[@SeismicFrog]

Absolutely epic video. Super research and throws out some great thoughts. I’d never even thought of the 4 things. Absolutely brilliant deconstruct. Thank you so much! ❤

[@OrangeRiver]

Thank you!

[@ZachsMind]

The only constant in the temporal multiverse is change. There is no prime timeline. There are timelines in which those who observe their own timeline(s) and the amorphic nature of them, would want to improve their timelines and also protect them from any future adverse influence. What they fail to understand is that you can't observe timelines without affecting them. Just by going back in time, you change the timeline. It's not like everything that happens is meant to have happened, or that there's one static timeline and affecting that timeline breaks everything. TOS happened when it did. TNG did too. All the shows we've observed happened. I mean, this is all fiction so what difference does it make anyway, but when you're messing with temporal physics, everything that happened did happen, is happening and will happen, but they may not all sync with each other because we're not talking about one static timeline. We are witnessing bits and pieces of multiple timelines. They not only don't have to make sense in a singular static linear way, they really shouldn't! Frankly, every camera shot we examine inside each episode, could all be from different alternate temporal realities that just happen to look so much alike that we can't see a difference! The ST:The Original Series we got in the 1960s did happen, is happening, and will always have happened. However, temporal physics is so complicated, that by the time Star Trek Strange New Worlds syncs up with Pike's fate and Kirk's takeover of The Enterprise, we could examine episodes of Star Trek: Those Old Scientists! We could watch "the original Star Trek" in a whole new way! Perhaps we could just recreate the original scripts from the 1960s, or use them as templates to create similar but newly fashioned versions of the originals, or we could completely abandon the original series and start from scratch! Maybe The Corbonite Manuever happened. Maybe it didn't! Maybe it kinda happened but in a different way! Where we're going, there are no roads!

[@kennethepps3425]

I think there should be maybe a mini-series or one off film that just covers the temporal prime directive told from the perspective of the "time cops". The concept is that the time line has become so murky that even they can not correct all the paradoxes being created. Maybe built around the parable of the starfish: you can't save everyone but you save who you can. Could be an interesting story.

[@jesseszymcik3026]

That was great. I feel like Kirk, talking to Spock, in Subspace Rhapsody. I almost understood what you said.

[@johncunningham6928]

To quote my favourite Vulcan, 'Fascinating...' Having said that, much angst could be prevented by quotes from two other sci-fi realities: Firstly, it's all 'wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff', and secondly, it's a 'sort of general mish-mash'... Which, like a few coats of paint, covers a multitude of 'tins'(or sins)... I shall now stop with the obscure references... 🤪

[@Dragondude2525]

24:24 I mean I still enjoyed the video. It was just a thought experiment playing out and I’m happy you didn’t do what most people on KZbin do, which is act as if their word is the law which should be respected and devoutly believed in. You do a good job of attempting to interpret disparate thoughts into a unified concept while still acknowledging that it’s a bunch of unrelated narratives being forced into a shared continuity. Good on you and keep it up. There are definitely a ton of other trek-tubers out there that would’ve framed this as a “this is the lost trek timeline the woke left destroyed” or “the timeline they want you to forget” or something else. Good on you for not succumbing to such things. You always get my views and engagement for producing well thought out and well structured content.

[@DavidDart]

No. 1 BEST NUMBER ONR IN STARTREK

[@WilliamHaynesTV]

Another great video!

[@OrangeRiver]

Thank you!

[@lsporter88]

Absolutely Superb Parsing (as per usual). Always love your presentations.😎👍🏾

[@while_coyote]

I get they have to keep it in to remain canon with Khan and friends but Star Trek's anti-genetic-engineering stance is SO dumb. Heck, ALL humanoid races in the Star Trek universe are ALREADY canonically genetically engineered by the progenitors! It's just so stupid.

[@Naptosis]

Genetic engineering is far too dangerous. Just let little Johnny play with his Lego matter/anti-matter warheads in peace.

[@TheJasonBorn]

#1 is one of my favs. Both of them. Ad Astra and IDIC. This was a good vid.

[@clwho4652]

I prefect that at some point a Star Trek show will have some major history changing event that allows all shows afterwords to pick and choose what part of canon they want and don't want. As we in the real world go further and further into the future everything that has been said about the 21century will be more and more wrong.

[@Bionickpunk]

At some point they just have to accept that Trek wont be "our Earth but in the future" but "alternate Earth with its own events".

[@roncoleman1859]

This was a great episode! Thank you Tyler.

[@jaymzx0]

16:08 How did Ordinary Things get cast in Discovery?

[@Avigorus]

NGL I tend to headcanon that the alternate timeline was actually created by the First Contact movie if not even earlier, including all of Enterprise because of the way the Borg Sphere debris was found in Enterprise and then it had that huge time travel insanity plot. By the possibly earlier bit I mean it might include some other time travel events that theoretically influenced the past actually impacting this new alternate timeline instead of the original timeline, I'm on the fence about that stuff (like Voyage Home changes to the past before they returned to their own timeline or that DS9 episode where Quark and co were the Roswell aliens).

[@OrangeRiver]

As far as I can tell, First Contact is generally treated in-universe as a time loop.

[@jamoore2581]

Star Trek is the best show ever made. The show especially lower decks. The impact on culture and imagination cany be understated

[@robczeranko2054]

I never DC Fontana's book, but in The Cage it was implied Number One was a human.

[@DrewLSsix]

To be fair, human is the default status of any star trek protagonist, even in TNG Q was constantly testing himanity, nevermind all the aliens on the ship or that the ship belongs to a fleet that serves a government that represents mostly not humans .... Human centricity is seen throughout trek, its a wonder human passing races like Betazoids, Aldeans, Ba'ku, Ligonians, about 97% of all the aliens of TOS, arent all pissed off about either being ignored or being confused for humans....

[@robczeranko2054]

@@DrewLSsix Now I am interested in DC Fontana's book. I am wondering if she addressed this issue. Appreciate your response.

[@od1452]

I confess when I went down the rabbit hole in my darkest hopless thoughts ...all writers who screwed up the timeline should have been exiled with Khan prior to the movie. I found some peace just thinking every franchise of ST was its own reality.. but finally decided its a multiverse and we could be hearing the story from any one of them.. I am amazed that you not only have tried to understand and fix(?) the Timeline... your understanding of it astounds me but my understanding is at a Kindergarten level.. so thats probably not much of a complement . Remember like all tough jobs... Somebody has to do it. ! I thank you for your service. Number One is a wonderful Character . I love the cast and have been hoping for Pike's adventures ever since I saw the first few episodes of the original ST when it came out. . I prefer the New casts to have a deeper connection to the original characters .. .... if the reboots don't .. why reintroduce them.? .. Make new Characters.

[@Kelnx]

Was it worth making a 20 minute video? No. No it wasn't. But that's OK. I enjoy watching you nerd out on Trek. I'm not even a big Trek fan, but I still like your videos.

[@heyitsjefe]

Number One is awesome. Video definitely unnecessary - but completely welcomed! 😂

[@pistolp8037]

I really really hated the last and 5th season of Discovery. I felt it was rushed, had a lot of plot holes, and didn't tell an overall compelling story like seasons 1-4 did, despite what people may hate about what Discovery did to the Klingons, by altering their appearance slighty to look more aggressive. The only saving grace about season 5 of Discovery for me, was finding out Kovich, was actually secretly Agent Daniels. This for me proved what I long suspected from TNG and beyond, as TNG actually being the true "reboot" of Star Trek, making everything in TOS subject to change. I actually appreciate this, because the writers in TNG had far more knowledge and foresight, along with future series DS9, Voyager, Enterprise, and then the Kelvin timeline, before bringing things back to TNG with Discovery. So, in my eyes, TOS was more of experimental Star Trek, and not truly cannon, as everything that followed it fits in more nicely, if it never existed in the first place. Call me a heretic. But Star Trek is my favourite TV Series since I was a young child, but I never really got into, or believed the events of TOS, I always followed the Golden Age of Trek and took TNG as the starting point for TRUE Trek and not TOS. This is just my point of view and opinion. It also helps eliminate a lot of timeline issues that people seem to have that always point back to TOS.

[@schubertuk]

I've always been confused as to why large (or perhaps vocal) section of both the Star Trek & Star Wars fan community are obsessed with canon. I am a massive Star Trek fan - but I am far more obsessed with good stories that make me care - this (personally) matters so much more than whether it contradicts an episode I saw 20-50 years ago. I love ToS, I love Strange New Worlds, I love Prodigy and I like parts of other recent series - and the common thread is not canon -consistency or fan-service, but good stories. Canon-consistency or overt efforts to explain away canon-inconsistencies often loses me as a view rapidly as dull, unengaging drama-killing plot points. Still, your mileage may vary! ;-)

[@giovangciccareli1829]

Which timeline the Original timeline, the Kelvin timeline or the DSC-SNW timeline? And before you ask yes these are separate timelines as the EXACT SAME plot device that was used to create the Kelvin timeline was used in SNW season 2. Kurtzman wrote it and signed off on it being used a second time. So, yes it's a new timeline by his own rules.

[@OrangeRiver]

...the Kelvin timeline is its own separate thing, and no, the "EXACT SAME plot device" was NOT used in SNW season 2 😂

[@giovangciccareli1829]

@@OrangeRiver Time Travel by Romulans that wasn't reset. How is that not the same thing as Nero? Kahn and the Eugenics wars are moved forward in time 60 years and nothing changes as a result of that? Step outside Trek for a minute and use that same logic in Marvel. The events of the first Avengers movie is moved from 2012 to 2072 with no other alteration to any films or shows that originally followed it and nothing about the Infinity Saga changes. Does that make any sense? No, it doesn't but that's exactly what's happened with Trek and they all act like it doesn't matter just because they say it does. How do you watch SNW that says The Eugenics War takes place in the mid 21st century and then watch TOS that references the 1990s and claim its a shared universe? Kurtzman wrote this plot device in ST 2009 and it created a new timeline. He signs off on exactly the same plot device in SNW and it all stays the same?? What a joke of a writer.

[@OrangeRiver]

... That's not what happened lol. The Kelvin timeline was created via a red matter singularity and constitutes a separate parallel universe. This is stated in the film by Spock. In SNW, the timeline alterations are in the same vein as most other time travel in Trek, which treats the Prime Universe as having a mutable history. I'm not saying those two explanations standing side by side is very satisfying, but that is the difference.

[@marktaylor6553]

The timeline hasn't been the same since the we found out the Cybermen were the original iteration of the Borg, in a crossover. But you haven't covered any crossovers. The X-Men vs Star Trek (ToS) was an especially weird - yet excellent - one. Fun Fact: Everything in Doctor Who is canon, regardless of source, so all the crossovers are canon and the Star trek universe is thus DW canon. Tranformers are also DW canon, via the character Deathshead, so YES, the ST and Transformers universe have canon connections. 😛

[@soulstrong]

This was a very meaningful video!

[@allenporter6586]

I liked your video. I like SNW. Time Travel gives everybody headaches. That's why Steven Hawkings thinks it's impossible, all of Creation doesn't want a headache they just don't make Tylenol that big.

[@mcorrade]

this is why I subscribed to this channel. Ya baby!!

[@AnMuiren]

Great episode, you share many of my observations and thoughts, and it was good to hear them enumerated clearly with some choice clips as aids in referencing your points.🖖🏽LLAP

[@billtree52]

Yay got a cameo from Mariner ❤

[@colinleat8309]

"We don't have the time to argue about time! " 🤣. I agree the aligory has always been the most important thing about Trek. I'm also one of those Cannon stickler though. I like a consistent through line, that being said...I gave up trying to figure out the whole thing. It gives me a headache. 😂. 🖖😁🤘🇨🇦🍻

[@garygarrow2718]

My theory is that every time travel event in all of Star Trek has ripple effects which explain the constant retcons.

[@Animotions01]

Great lore video, thanks!!

[@OrangeRiver]

Thank you!

[@KingoftheJuice18]

Is NO ONE going to discuss the lore of 1 = Una = Number One = First Officer?!

[@twitchew]

i have been wondering at what point TOS would really be seen as a pocket universe or just an actual dramatization of the mission logs as told by Kirk. ( i.e. TOS events don't trump the more integrated trek that follows.)

[@danielshear2839]

I just keep coming back to one word.......beautiful

[@TwilightLimits-sk7kn]

i like Strange New Worlds because of the episodic nature. There is no season long story arc

[@AgentM79]

Modern Star Trek is not harming my 1970’s childhood in the least. I could care less about continuity errors pertinent to the dates of fictitious events (most of which will hopefully forever remain fictitious). Trek canon is rapidly approaching the 60-year mark. That in and of itself is AMAZING. Strange New Worlds is Star Trek living its “best life”. I love the show! I also love Lower Decks and Picard S3. The Kelvin Timeline, however, would indeed ruin my childhood IF I chose to acknowledge three crappy movies that otherwise had an excellent cast.

[@ComradePhoenix]

Re: "Why don't the timecops set things right?!" Some things are fixed points in time (including various acts of time travel). Things that *have* to happen so the status quo the timecops enforce can happen. We see proof of this going all the way back to TOS, (see: City on the Edge of Forever, Tomorrow is Yesterday, Assignment: Earth, etc.)

[@arthurdotson9579]

Thanks for the video. I have had thoughts on the Khan/Eugenics War timeline stuff for a long time, since growing up through the 80s and 90s and wondering how or even if they would ever deal with that. Also wish I could find out what Gene Rodenberry's thoughts were at the time he introduced this in the late 60s.

[@Heatx79]

Thumbs up at about 1:15 because you are going there again.

[@Sturmvapor]

Great video yet again! I do not believe that there is a real timeline in Trek... Roddenberry himself saw it as just stories about these explorers. But the way I see it if it has to be explained is that there exists multiple timelines, that are clearly demarcated: TOS, TAS TMP TWoK, SfS, TVH, TFF, TUC TNG DS9, VOY, GEN, FC, INS, NEM ENT JJTrek Movies DIS, SNW, PIC LD PROD You don't have to agree with this, but you can definitely see that this breakdown shows how things changed drastically either visually, tonally, or both. Some may say that TNG belongs with DS9, VOY and the next generation Movies, but it really does not. DS9 subverted the promise as to what Star Trek represented. It made the "future" gritty and far less ideological. Don't get me wrong, DS9 was excellent SciFi, but it was bad Trek. The other series that followed Voyager, tried to right the ship, but it didn't and couldn't as the pandora's box had been opened with DS9... And the next generation movies are all over the place, but they follow the logic setup by DS9 and VOY. Hell a strong argument can be made that the events after Picard was in the Nexus in Generations is all in Picard's mind... As once you are in the Nexus, you cannot leave... Regardless, excellent video as always brother!

[@jasonscott7527]

Star treks time line is more like a multi verse . All new trek follows the jj Abrams time line . That's why picard is so different from tng. Paramount has admitted this . Do you not know this ? It's pretty obvious.

[@OrangeRiver]

This is so extremely incorrect that it's almost like you're trolling lmfao

[@mudvalve]

🤔 Nicely thought out. An enjoyable watch. Thanks!

[@howardberman3996]

Yes, it was worth it! keep it coming

[@andrwblood9162]

I think it's stretch to say theres a whole timeline necessary just to explain Daniels' understanding that the 22nd century Xindi crisis wasn't suppose to happen in history. The idea that the Sphere Builders tried to invade in the 26th and failed, then travel back in time to do it again if fine to explain, providing acceptance of evading 30th century intervention. Like, think about the spatial anomaly from All Good Things. The entire existence of complex lifeforms in that Quadrant of the galaxy was going to be stopped before they started existing. Why was it Picard who acted instead of Temporal Agents? An in-universe explanation is that they didn't know it was happening.

[@MarekMoowi]

So much reaserch to make a video just bc Star Trek writers doesn't bother to keep continuity 😂

[@TheRezro]

Because it always was a hyperverse. It is hilarious when fanboys forget that.

[@petematthews9346]

Interesting, well though out, and well made video. Una is one of my favorite characters. Quick question since I missed most all of Enterprise when it originally aired. Was Procyon pronounced in the series Enterprise like pro-SYE-on, as you did in this video? The only way I've ever heard it pronounced during decades of amateur astronomy and working in science museums is PRO-see-on. Just wondering, not judging.

[@OrangeRiver]

I think in the episode it's pronounced the way I say it in the video, but I can't remember exactly. I honestly always said it the way you say it too, but I found out it's the other way :/

[@OrangeRiver]

Update: I'm an idiot, it's pronounced "PRO-see-on" XD

[@petematthews9346]

@@OrangeRiver when you said it the way you did I was wondering if I’d missed something all these years. I’m a firm believer in the Corollary to Murphy’s Law-if everything seems to be going well, I’ve obviously overlooked something. So I dug around and yes, the pronunciation is generally PROH-see-on. But…the name comes from the fact Procyon, which is also in Canis Major and rises just before Sirius, the Dog Star, and it Greek it’s Prokýōn, pro “before [the]” kýōn “dog.” Over the centuries the kappa k softened to an s sound. So maybe you’re just an Ancient Greek scholar! Cheers!!