This Is Huge: Lightning infill AND Arachne in PrusaSlicer 2.5 Alpha, and more...

[@timschafer2536]

A deep dive into Arachne and slicing/ toolpath generation would be great.

[@stevenmcculloch5727]

I would absolutely love a video going deep into the math of arachne. Way too many youtube channels just cover surface level info, but I'm subbed to Lost in Tech for the rabbit hole adventures!

[@BrazenRain]

Yes! That would be content that I'd set aside time to sit down and pay 120% attention to

[@PlatinumCS6]

Yes please!

[@has6145]

do it

[@remcoburema4883]

Hi! I'm one of the original implementers of Lightning (in Cura) -- also helped implementing Arachne as part of the Cura team :-) I was surprised as well, as they previously said it would not be added, at least not anytime soon. However ... How they (Prusa) could do it (Arachne/Lightning) so quickly? Not a big secret: As they say in the release notes, most of the code was directly ported from Cura. -- That's why we're thanked/referred to so often in these particular release notes. Since our engine is C++, both of the files implementing these features where reasonably modular, and their entire code-base is also C++, it was ... a lot more possible (still not _easy_ of course, I don't want to imply that they just had to press a button or something) for them to do such a thing. Although this is a bit bigger than we're used to, this sort of thing goes back and forth in both directions. Remember the changed 'arrange on buildplate' functionality in Cura a good while back? We used the library that one of their devs made for it. We had to ask them to change the license though, which they did, in exchange for a better adherence to the 3MF-standard in Cura (something about the way we saved 3MF files must've annoyed their devs to no end) -- and a shout-out, which you can still see a remnant of in the Cura 'about' screen.

[@LostInTech3D]

Hi! 👍👍👍 So...to settle a discussion. Do you know why it's called lightning? 😉

[@remcoburema4883]

@@LostInTech3D Originally I called it 'Ribbed Vault'. Tim ('Bagelorb') really wanted to call it 'Lightning', and I went 'OK'. I think the idea was that it sounded cooler (that's what he told me anyway), so it's _mostly_ a 'it looks like lightning from up top' thing as far as I remember anyway. Given his sometimes subtle sense of humour and my love of puns, it's _definitely_ also a plus that it 'lightens' your model though :-D TLDR: I approve of both interpretations.

[@Rebar77_real]

Gotta love the open sourceyness of the entire community!

[@Sembazuru]

@@LostInTech3D I'm not part of either Cura or PrusaSlicer, but my thought is it was called lighting because of the dendric (branching) look of each layer of infill. I also look forward to any enlightenment we can get from Remco as an insider.

[@versus023]

You can tell us why they didn’t (prusa) add tree support yet?

[@tvathome562]

deep dive on slicing engines would be welcome I haven't seen anyone really cover it apart from collision avoidance .

[@J0nny_]

Regarding the terminology of "What would you call an alpha if not released" the correct terminology would be that it has been published. Published software has normally 4 Stages: Alpha (features will be added), Beta (Fixing Bugs), Release Candidate (RC) (Might be a final Release) and the Release itself.

[@truegret7778]

Go for it! Take a deep dive (as others have commented) into Arachne, please. It helps with the strategy, for me anyway, in determining the "best" orientation to print - producing a print with the absolute least amount of post-processing, shell count, layer height. Thanks! I have been using 2.4.1 for some time and really like it.

[@eraldylli]

All that is very promising. Let's hope possible kinks are ironed out and they become standard features soon. Great job.

[@LostInTech3D]

They're usually very quick between alpha and release!

[@DarrenGerbrandt]

Saw it a week or so ago and had to try it out. Printed a stamp I made for my wife for the soap bars she makes for her business, the lettering came out the best I have yet seen with any slicer. Will definitely be trying it out more in the coming weeks, so far the results are great even for an alpha.

[@nikoraasu6929]

You are slowly becoming my favourite channel with quick news or tips about 3D printing

[@LostInTech3D]

Thanks! Plenty more to come

[@Rebar77_real]

For tpu/e I wonder if just adding a basic pause during fussy parts, I said Fussy, would calm down any pressure build up. Nice they're taking everything into consideration. Lightning sounds better than inward sneeze at least.

[@carpenecopinum1665]

Great overview video! One thing I'd love for infill is some kind of "double lightning" infill, because I really like the general idea, but I had lightning infill fail a lot before, because in a big print it generates large "flaps" that are only attached at one side, so they are really prone to bending away and/or warping upwards and then the nozzle running into them even with moderate z-hop. So it would be great if we could have infill that has the same advantage of mostly supporting only regions where support is necessary, but also considers the stability of the infill structure by connecting every line to some other point on the contour of the layer.

[@mrendall90]

Yes please

[@TheMikolasZuza]

You seem to be reading every comment like a proper KZbin maniac (not at all speaking from experience). That was very nice! At Prusa, I tend to wait with the feature overview video till the final release is ready (for many obvious reasons). But I really appreciate you covering the alpha so soon after release. I need to find a good place on the web or in the documentation (I wrote the whole thing, humble brag :D) for 3rd party videos about PrusaSlicer, this would be an excellent addition to it.

[@LostInTech3D]

I appreciate the comments, and of course it would be an honour to be featured anywhere in documentation or otherwise, so please do! 🙂

[@jakefromstatefarm8545]

Why am I only now finding your channel? Love your personality and the way you deliver info.

[@tvathome562]

I've had a couple of edge case fails with new cura and prusa 2.5 , some complex vase modes /spiralise outer contour don't function as expected, and tubes with certain wall thickness's produce stuttering movement of nozzle head causing blobs.

[@LostInTech3D]

interesting!

[@djnaddy2339]

Just to double check: are you sure that the stuttering has nothing to do with the known problem of vase mode on some printers that use the power loss recovery feature of Marlin? If its on, try turning it off and test again :)

[@Dark0Storm]

Really looking forward to these making there way over to Superslicer.

[@dtibor5903]

Flexible materials like tpu can be printed nicely at absolutely constant lower speed (15-30mm/s) and with high acceleration(over 1200mm/s²) and moderate cornering/jerk(over 10mm/s) and no S-curve. Retract 7-10mm. Works with any slicer, roboust results.

[@imqqmi]

About those seams, I've always wondered why they don't implement a way to to not stop the xy motion when changing layers. A ramp would allow the print head continue moving and keep the pressure equal, ie no squeeze out on the seams and no retraction. This only needs to be done on the outer perimeter. In subtractive cam it's also used, ie in fusion 360 and vcarve it has options to ramp down or spiral down into the next pass.

[@LostInTech3D]

that would be a fascinating thing to try out at some point..

[@amt3dlabs875]

Nice update!!! I hope Superslicer updates soon… I like the “only one perimeter” in bottom and top !!! Gives a nice finish mainly in the first layer if it is cosmetic!! Can’t find this option in another slicers!!!

[@LostInTech3D]

I hadn't actually heard about that one, it does sound good.

[@spanny52]

@@LostInTech3D SuperSlicer is a community driven Prusa/Slicr remix I believe.

[@LostInTech3D]

Sorry yeah I meant the function, I've totally heard of superslicer. Although somehow avoided using it 😂

[@hermangaviria690]

Lets pressure the Cura devs to get paint on supports added.

[@LostInTech3D]

I'll mention it, but it could be something really hard to implement, with the way cura is written

[@GEHDunedin]

Definitely waiting for tree supports - the only reason I'm still holding on to Cura at present rather than switching to PrusaSlicer full time

[@Felipeh999]

I don't like the way Prusaslicer handles rafts as well. Rafts are rarely needed, but I have to use Cura when I want it.

[@PetriHail1337]

I love the Prusa Slicer and use it for all my Machines. I would like to see tree support. THAT would be amazing!

[@marijnvandongen4835]

"It fundamentally bothers to try to draw them" cracked me the fuck up 1:36

[@darrennew8211]

I can't wait until it's out of Alpha! I tried it out slicing some game board pieces that had narrow legs sticking out, and it came out so much better and so much stronger.

[@wolffin100]

Love these videos, definitely love the lighting infill in my cura , glad to see it in prusa, looking forward to prusa 🌳 🌲 🌴 support 😀 👍 oh yeah definitely gonna try it out 🤪💯👍👍

[@LostInTech3D]

Hehe I wonder why no tree support, maybe I'll nag them again about it 😂

[@wolffin100]

@@LostInTech3D please,,,please and Thank you

[@paulg3336]

A bowden tube itself ,stretches and tries to form a straight line, when thrust force is applied to the inner shaft. So the fact that it stores elastic energy applies whether the inner shaft is compressible or not. The inner shaft being FDM filament or a wire control cable.

[@FAB1150]

Ooo, that's the slicer I use! I'm pretty excited to try out arachne, as I "patiently" waited for it to come to prusaslicer. I can't seem to be able to tune Cura correctly for some reason!

[@Karavusk]

Can you even use these pressure features in combination with linear/pressure advance? Do you need to tweak something to make it work together properly?

[@LostInTech3D]

I'm sure I saw prusaslicer explaining that you can use both together, on their twitter account. It makes sense, it's essentially just a speed adjustment. So it shouldn't really be an issue.

Yes you can..the firmware method will simply have less corrections to do, or none in an ideal world.

[@kimmotoivanen]

They work at different levels. Linear/pressure advance changes extrusion in printer (including klipper host) for corners etc. where speed or direction will be changed, sort of micro scale. Slicer doesn't know how to do any of that, but it can at macro level smooth transition from line type (speed) to another.

[@henrymach]

One thing I'd really like to see implemented was an option to always keep movement in the same direction when extruding perimeters through all the piece. I mean, if you start clockwise, only do clockwise. If you start counterclockwise always do counterclockwise. Never mixing

[@LostInTech3D]

Yeah like monotonic for perimeters. Makes sense.

[@victortitov1740]

i don't think PrusaSlicer ever does perimeters cw. At least for me, they seem to be always ccw.

[@bubnikv]

@@victortitov1740 Exactly. All perimeters are CCW.

[@angelorf]

About the pressure compensation: ideally this would be implemented in the firmware. Just like linear advance adjusts the filament position for changing movement speeds, so should it also adjust the filament position for line width changes. It's kind of a chicken and egg situation, so we decided to implement the feature sloppily in the slicer first.

[@qabalah78]

Printing with lightning infil now. I can't get my head around it. It looks so efficient!! That's just as well because it's for a hotend assembly for my Phaetus Dragon SR effector. Every little bit helps.

[@coulterjb22]

Nice review of the new features. Do you have a video showing how a model can be exported after you've applied an infill pattern to it? I'd like to use the infill in parts of my model because I cant model a gyroid pattern.

[@Four-sc6gj]

Engagement. Also +1 on Arachne breakdown video.

[@glodigit]

I'd be interested in that deep dive Arachne video. I want to start writing a 5 axis slicer with this kind of feature.

[@LostInTech3D]

A five axis slicer! If you get anywhere with that, please keep me in the loop!!

[@JoshuaRilliet]

Les nouvelles options semblent intéressantes, pour autant je ne vais pas télécharger cette version Alpha mais attendre la version finale afin qu'il y ait le moins de bug possible, merci pour cette vidéo explicative ;0)

[@JBMetalShop]

I want some more play dough. Who cares about fascinating slicing mechanisms, I want more of that doughy fun stuff.

[@MAIKOMIO]

thanks a lot!!! so nice reverb

[@TechBrewGamer]

Definitely would like Tree supports and Arc Support in SuperSlicer.

[@Liz_ArdE]

If PrusaSlicer would just finally get tree supports, I would ditch Cura. That's saying something too because I love Cura and I have crafted an amazing profile in Cura for my non-Prusa machine but downloading 5.0 for the Arachne features forced me to update my computer to a newer operating system that is just a bit too new for it, it's having a harder time running now. I know they are working on tree supports and the lightning infill algorithm gives me hope but please Prusa my crops are dying!

[@Dark0Storm]

Yeah, I really don't understand how this seems to be not a priority for them.

[@NathanBuildsRobots]

4:05 only slightly disappointed that you didn't draw a butt Great new features to try out though. Pressure equalizer and arachne sound particularly useful to me.

[@LostInTech3D]

I'll do better next time 😂

[@sprkplg]

I know I would enjoy the hide seams feature. One feature I would love is being able to set a different temperature for perimeters vs infill. 🤞

[@prxrb]

to make pressure equalizer more visible, make external perimeters very slow (10mm/s) and internal perimeters very fast (100mm/s)

[@LostInTech3D]

That's exactly what I did

[@alexandermaddison8812]

hi just wondering what printer you used to print the small vehicles and at what layer height

[@NicolaFloris]

Can't wait for super slicer to implement all this

[@LoosiuFlying]

I'm banging my head why I had subscribed to This Chanel just now. Not right away after watching all the videos. Great stuff here. I can't wait to get this features merged to Super Slicer

[@JFBence]

Still no hole size compensation?

[@petercallison5765]

I could not get it to load. Said there was a null value in the ini file and to delete it. I did and nothing changed.

[@Dystrackshun]

Lightning, because it forks out like ⚡. I want 🌴 supports and Cura 5 refuses to run on my PC.

[@LostInTech3D]

Exactly, although in my model it looks more like an alien organism. Dead space infill?

[@Dystrackshun]

@@LostInTech3D shudders in Isaac

[@LostInTech3D]

Weird echoey UGH noise.

[@HoffmanTactical]

I'm glad Prusa Slicer is keeping up, so much less buggy then Cura.

[@LoosiuFlying]

What has dropped on me few days ago is how Arachne engine will cope with TPU materials in the context of the excellent research and knowledge sharing that You had made some time ago? What about pressure control ? Best regards!

[@LostInTech3D]

I'm actually halfway through an episode on that, but it kind of got _complicated_ so it is delayed a bit. It's still happening though...I think.

[@Super-650]

Re. seams. I still haven't found anything that works better than the Seam Gap function in Superslicer, at least as far as dimensions and bulging goes. Since I've started printing external perimeters at higher speeds to avoid VFA's the Prusaslicer implementation is kind of irrelevant now. Keep up the great vids, love them all.

[@henninghoefer]

Is this still the slic3r engine or did they swap it whole for Cura's? (that would explain why they got Arachne, lightning infill, pressure equalization (coasting in Cura) and better seams all at once)

[@LostInTech3D]

No it's still the slic3r engine. In fact you can turn the slicing logic back to "classic" if you so please. Definitely hasn't been changed to curaengine.

[@henninghoefer]

@@LostInTech3D Thank you!

[@NathanBuildsRobots]

I want to see a slicer setting that vase mode-ifys solid prints - not just single layer shells. Should be pretty easy to implement IMO.

[@bubnikv]

That is how it works by default. Drop in solid object and enable vase mode.

[@rembrantsworkshop]

I just downloaded this last night, it asks to import settings and profiles from 2.4. Changes do not appear to pass from 2.5 to 2.4, I believe they use different folders to save settings.

[@LostInTech3D]

Yes I believe so, nothing I did on 2.5 rolled back either.

[@bubnikv]

Sure, it is documented at the very top of the change log that alphas save their profiles into alpha directory, betas into beta directory to not mix with the release (stable) slicer settings.

[@MarkFraserWeather]

2.5.0 alpha 3 was released a couple of days ago.

[@LostInTech3D]

Hadn't spotted that, seems like a fair few bug fixes!

[@mscir]

Please do explain how Arachne works.

[@beauslim]

I'd really like to see something like "paint on seams" so I can tell the slicer where to put them.

[@LostInTech3D]

You can do that!

[@beauslim]

@@LostInTech3D Well son of a gun. Glad I brought it up!

[@TechieSewing]

2:09 No! Also maybe not try to reproduce this?.. And yes we want that pressure thing about squishy filaments.

[@Felipeh999]

Now they just have to fix whatever causes lithophanes to print bad and I'll probably never use Cura again! And while they're at it, they could probably make rafts a little better. Well, I guess I'll keep using Cura for lithophanes and prints with rafts...

[@LostInTech3D]

It's really useful to be fluent in both slicers, they each are good at some specific things as you say.

[@JeronimoStilton14]

@@LostInTech3D what does prusaslicer actually do better? So far the only feature that really was nice was the feature to take tons of parts and sort them into print bed sized chunks so you can just move plate after plate of parts.

[@Felipeh999]

@@JeronimoStilton14 Prusaslicer opens ans runs faster than Cura. That's the only real reason I prefer Prusaslicer. Cura does give me better results in specific cases, but when I want to print something fast, I just open Prusaslicer.

[@LostInTech3D]

Filament change, paint on support, paint on seams...to name a couple

[@victortitov1740]

for me: * prusaslicer works with touchscreen (cura does not) * in cura, i can't seem to figure out how to ensure modifier shapes are placed where they are supposed to. In prusaslicer, they just do. * (opinion-based) prusaslicer's print settings are far easier to understand and, * cura has better vase mode (in prusaslicer i get a horrible seam-like thing on sloping surfaces; cura still has it but it is much better)

[@SianaGearz]

Cura's Arachne engine was in development for a long time... odds are, Prusa's Arachne engine was in development for a long time as well. It's not something you bang out in a week or two i wouldn't think? And there's a lot of fine tuning and fretting.

[@j.g545]

they use curas engine

[@SianaGearz]

@@j.g545 Aaaaah you're right! I just looked, branch master_250 in PrusaSlicer/src/libslic3r/Arachne that's just CuraEngine verbatim. First dropped in on Jun1.

[@LostInTech3D]

Wow interesting!

[@davidjhyatt]

Subb'd for future arachne explanation

[@girenloland]

Cura devs if afraid of stepping on prusa feets, now prusa stepped on curas feets first, now cura is free to copy the prusa features like paint in supports, seams and so on

[@bubnikv]

They always were most welcome to do that.

[@1967friend]

I don’t think I would consider converting to this Arachne engine to be a universal win. When Cura 5.0 converted to Arachne I had nothing but grief with it. The tool paths and plotting was a mess! Sure it may be better in some use scenarios. But I couldn’t help but continuously run into its downfalls. For example, I like to print RC model airplanes. From the likes of Eclipson, plane print, etc. on previous Cura 4.X these prints ran flawlessly. With 5.0 (Arachne) the prints were a mess! Seam alignment was all over the board, and very inconsistent. It would generate on average 5-6X the number of retractions for the same parts. Very frustrating!!!

[@LostInTech3D]

You can choose to use classic mode in the settings, so don't worry.

[@joshuapicaro8726]

I would just want to know if Arachne would help me print my 28 mm miniatures

[@LostInTech3D]

Thats on my list of things to investigate! But yes, absolutely should.

[@colinraines395]

How do I download and install prusa 2.5??

[@LostInTech3D]

Assuming you're on windows, you just download the zip and extract it to any folder you want.

[@colinraines395]

It doesn't appear to have an exe file in it ??

[@j.g545]

now only missing tree support

[@JB-yu1vv]

Looks like a video about convert cura profiles to prusa slicer profiles might be interesting since these features look quite promising. (I don't mean converting the file, I mean like thinks that are called differently in prusa slicer or how to recreate certain options)

[@LostInTech3D]

thats a very much needed functionality!

[@Sembazuru]

I did this once (taking the profile settings from the Lulzbot edition of Cura and replicating them in PrusaSlicer) manually. There is definitely some feature loss as the feature sets between the slicers isn't 100% parity. For example, Prusa only has two temperature settings for filaments, first layer and the rest. Cura (at least that old version of Cura) had at least 3 filament temperature settings. A filament softening (but not melting) temperature used during initial nozzle cleaning (I forget what it was called), first layer, and the rest. I had been doing something in PrusaSlicer (I honestly forget if it was PrusaSlicer at that point or Slic3rPE), but it was implemented in the beginning gcode, not the filament profile. Speaking of gcode... the placeholder variable names (and syntax) between PrusaSlicer and Cura are completely different. This could be automated in a conversion program with a dictionary look-up translation for the names, but I'm not sure about the syntax or formulas. (Does Cura allow conditionals like if..then..else in the custom gcode? I honestly forget.) I don't think a bi-directional settings conversion program is impossible, but I think a bit beyond my personal coding skills.

[@vernonleeper]

Like the ability to hide seam better.

[@sausagefingers714]

its great when you run 2.5 on windows and it asks if you wish to copy your profiles over

[@henryhbk]

I’ve never understood why the seam isn’t in the infill given I could care less how many zits are on my infill… I am sure the is a good reason why it’s not done that way, just not sure what that is…

[@LostInTech3D]

Oh it's because every perimeter has an entry and exit point, ie a seam.

[@henryhbk]

@@LostInTech3D oh because even if I touch down on the infill I still have to come out on the outer perimeter… makes total sense. But they why don’t we see the “hop point” in vase mode or does it attempt a very gradual hop up to the next layer/z-height.

[@LostInTech3D]

It's... complicated 👍

[@GreenAppelPie]

Where’s the follow up?

[@LostInTech3D]

Haha, I haven't forgotten, it's just more involved 👌

[@zeekjones1]

dough examples!

[@henrymach]

How many developers do they have? Well, clearly they have enough :)

[@someguy5766]

I thought it was lightning because it can go fast

[@LostInTech3D]

hah, plausible!

[@smellycat249]

Yes to Arachne.

[@AlexSwavely]

"How did they implement Arachne so quick?" Per twitter, they leveraged the fact that Cura is GPL and yoinked the code...

[@LostInTech3D]

Haha indeed. Even so, though.

[@3sotErik]

I want a Paint Seams tool.

[@LostInTech3D]

In cura I assume? Because prusaslicer already has that

[@3sotErik]

@@LostInTech3D I didn't know that. I've only used PrusaSlicer a few times. Kinda hate learning new software after I've learned something else.

[@elyknavillus777]

It's very strange how the annoying sawing sound immediately becomes less annoying just from you acknowledging the annoying sound. As for the in-depth look at the arch thingy, my ability to comprehend would probably match your ability to explain, so go for it

[@LostInTech3D]

we're all in this sound together! 💪

[@GamesJames]

hey great video. consider adding timestamps. youtube really likes that and it helps get your video higher ranked

[@Tarbard]

I love your videos.

[@LostInTech3D]

thanks! 👍

[@yura979]

Nice

[@MichaelKingsfordGray]

"Slicers" do not allow the optimal spiral printing. They are fundamentally flawed.

[@BlackGymkhana]

Prusa? No thanks...