THIS is Ruining all of Your Favourite Games.

[@SadToffee]

Thanks For Showing Up! If you've had the chance to watch the video I'd love to hear your thoughts on it! I did my best to put my persuasive essay writing skills and my skills in content creation together and I think it came out quite well! Also, I have been made aware that Vision Score DOES show up on the scoreboard, my bad for the mistake there, at the same time, I don't think this detracts from the point too much.

[@causeinsanity2386]

Congrats man, excited to see it

[@Gaming_bug_guy]

Can't wait sir!

[@Ponchovy]

Bro I loved this video, thank you for making it

[@alecride]

As a new player to league (less than a year) this is such an brilliant video. I've played Apex Legends to Masters multiple times, another game that's integrity doesn't exist and frustration is consistent. Really brilliant takes on mindset and attitudes

[@SadToffee]

@@alecride I appreciate it!

[@StubbyTheGiant]

>pick unranked queue >look inside >rank

[@adri745k]

*plays unranked* *top frags* "Waaahhhhh you're smurfing waaahhh" My fucking bronze ass : I mean sure if you think so

[@GFMarine]

​@@adri745kI remember years ago I played ranked once in Rainbow Six Siege and I went 15-1 by complete accident, after that, I never played ranked again but my K/D stayed like that on my profile and every unranked match I did good I got people calling me a smurf or if played poorly I got called a troll for throwing the match, it got pretty annoying after the 15th time.

[@TheDiamoniteG]

plays unranked qp in ow2 *hidden MRR*

[@roadrider720]

What should we add in an unranked mode?? OF COURSE WE SHOULD ADD AN INVISIBLE RANK.

[@Raikos100]

Honestly, should make so ranked ppl can't join unranked. Your fault for being good, you are forbidden from ruining the new players fun.

[@janefkrbtt]

truly the real answer is, stop playing competitive games to relax.

[@BENJA021100]

yep just play for fun, no one cares about you kda

[@ender_z4nd3r83]

Is impossible when games without competitive have sbmm, feels the same way as a RANKED on a RANKED only game, and even worse

[@AliceLoverdrive]

Alternatively, stop playing "casual competitive" and go join some LAN tournaments, it's heaps of fun!

[@janefkrbtt]

@@ender_z4nd3r83 if it has sbmm it's competitive. simple as

[@tionodese8110]

Bro heard "not competitive" as "not well balanced" he, just like the creator of this video, has never heard of a single player or cooperative game.

[@GUyGuyManManPerson]

"i wouldve put r6 gameplay here but i dont wanna play the game anymore bcs it sucks the joy out of me" **puts league footage instead**

[@reyalfa18]

As a player of both, R6 does suck the soul out of you harder lmao

[@z3ntropy]

I've never met anyone who enjoys league.

[@xentionX]

@@z3ntropy If i had to choose between R6 and Leauge? i enjoy League way way way more, cause R6 went full brainrot and became a shitty arcadey FPS instead of staying true to its original tactical shooter roots. League is simply league with basically no changes when it comes to the core gameplay.

[@z3ntropy]

@Mafilovely bot

[@z3ntropy]

@Mafilovely chatgpt needs to be stopped

[@tkhilker4696]

In 2009, on MW2, one of my friends said something that has stuck with me and holds to be true to this day, team based shooter games (especially CoD) aren't actually team based games, they're free for alls with certain people you can't eliminate.

[@ghetoknight7801]

and sometimes, just sometimes, you steal those people's- ahem I mean you trade your teammates, not letting their efforts go to waste!

[@mryellow6918]

Basically only cod

[@Alloveck]

I just don't get why nobody intentionally, explicitly designs games like that. From the ground up, build it not as a team game, but an individuals who just happen to have a common victory condition game. A game built for people who want the complete lack of worrying about coordinating with anyone else that you'd get from strictly 1 on 1 play, but want more than one target in the entire map. A game for people who'd totally be all over 1 V 6 in theory, but just aren't abnormally good enough to actually solo 6 other players at once in practice. People there for their own glory and satisfaction only, the rest of their "team" is just there to balance out the fact that there's more than one enemy out to potentially kill them. Because in all honesty, that's the only sort of team dynamic I'm looking for, at least: a core foundation of the purely selfish spirit of free for alls, with teams that exist simply so that only half the other players are actual threats, thereby yielding a happy middleground between the emptiness of 1 v1 and the overwhelming chaos of a true free for all.

[@uwuowo214]

​@@Alloveck Team fortress 2 is entirely what you just described. Go play TF2 community servers.

[@ballerrr273]

@@Alloveck I was reading this and also thought TF2 lol. Usually the only times that you are "coordinating" is an uber push or a push at the last 30 seconds of the round otherwise it has that constant 1v1 feel

[@Samuel-jn2oc]

"it's time to relax" *Boots extremely stressful game*

[@MaplePome1]

"you wouldn't understand"

[@Pandize]

I don’t think people mean relax, they just mean have fun. Which is relaxing in a way after a serious day. Improving, doing well, or even seeing where I’m lacking is fun for me. I like seeing “oh I’m aiming too high recently.” It’s the mindset you’re in, it’s not other people’s fault you’re not enjoying competitive games. Mute the toxic ones, and go for ace every round. Find why you can’t, and try again. That’s the fun part.

[@skullkid_gaming3312]

*Boots Elder Scrolls online*

[@MorningNapalm]

"Boots" :| RIP O/Ss.

[@kraagnjilwulf1413]

It's only stressful if you let it be.

[@CrazyDoodEpicLeaves]

"Gaming isnt fun anymore" people after realising that maybe the reason theyre not having fun anymore is because theyre playing the same soul-sucking competitive game 24/7.

[@cesar6447]

And I'll die playing it. My soul is not mine anymore

[@pomegarnet1618]

​@@cesar6447 it now exists solely to fuel this unending cogmachine

[@alyasVictorio]

These same people who though there's no fun in video games as a whole (even Nintendo exists for reasons) are worse than a hypocrite we all known IRL tho-

[@ceu160193]

It's because games now are made for sweaty types. Even ones that supposed to be fun get reworked into that direction.

[@whyudoit4009]

Win-feel nothing Lose-the voices come back We live in a perpetual purgatory we cannot enjoy, we should uninstall

[@TraxisOnTheLines]

"Like their teammates are obstacles to be overcome rather than people to work with." As a League of Legends player, I am now extremely defensive, because my teammates are obstacles and I refuse to acknowledge these mutants as anything else.

[@Kilrathi95]

I know you're making a joke, but funny enough, League of Legends' interactions were actually what made me realize I had to slow down or stop playing competitive games until I was in a better headspace. The game plus my own poor social skills made me so toxic that I actually questioned my life choices and said "Yknow, this ain't it." Thankfully, even 13 years later, I'm still playing games, PvE and PvP, and can gladly end any match with "GG WP".

[@davethescrub858]

​@@Kilrathi95 funny to hear you say that (first bit) - I was a toxic little bastard online because I had a shit life at home at the time and took my anger out by making other people angry about the things I'd say. After some real-life hard times shit, a break from Call of Duty, and a whole lot of life experience - I no longer had the desire to be a negative interaction people had. There's enough nasty people and problems in the world, I'd rather be remembered fondly and dearly. Life is too short to be surrounded by negative shit, because it slowly draws you into the void.

[@LoraLoibu]

@@davethescrub858 Being nice _feels_ nice

[@Kilrathi95]

@@davethescrub858 So, so true. I resonate with that, man. Sorry to hear about the first part; but I'm glad you came out stronger.

[@allancoelho6905]

​​@@Kilrathi95 cheaters make shooters a living hell too, being paired against a cheater stack almost every game, played a cs2 game yesterday against at least 3 guys using some sort of soft aim, like an aim assistance, they had terrible movement but god like aim, their gameplay felt wrong, once I noticed that, called my team out and someone took the lead while I only needed to kill the opposing team, focusing on takedowns of 2 to 3 players, hinting a flank, and allowing my team to retake site every round Ended up 22/16, didn't carry the game, that was my 2 really good random teammates retaking site almost every time, me and my friend ended up top fragging on flanks, attempting to remove enemies from site

[@mrsentrybuster]

My ass on my way to play Plants Vs Zombies for the billionth time since 2009 instead of playing a multiplayer game:

[@JotaroKujo-ip5wb]

PvZ gw1 and gw2 was peak.

[@BerutaKhaos]

The only correct option

[@yakopc6600]

When your favourite game is a competitive game, having fun is becomes something you chase rather than some passive gain

[@SadToffee]

Sometimes. but at the very least, I find the journey of improvement to be fun itself. I know a lot of people end up chasing after ranks or other things and that can definitely lead to a bad experience.

[@7fatrats]

@@SadToffee I watched the entire video, but i feel like your problem is one of mindset. A lot of gamers get lost in the weeds about competitive games being toxic, with no fun way to play them... meanwhile, we see content creators who can play the game in fun but stupid ways and still be able to have fun with it. It is not fun to lose, and its even less fun to spend forty minutes doing it- but you are absolutely focusing on the wrong aspect of a game if the reason a match is good or bad boils down to "we won" or "we lost". lets be honest with ourselves- when you get mad enough to quit playing a game for the night, it isn't because of one bad match. it usually comes from multiple losses, some of which mediocre, some of which were rough... but the end screen where it says "you lose" isn't the part that frustrates you. you are mad at your team, the other team, some stupid bullshit mechanic, the nerfs/buffs that happened recently... think about it. All of these excuses can be easily swept away once you take on a different mindset. The mindset of wanting to learn. I want you to, whenever you die, verbally state the thing you LAST did before you died for an entire day. I do not mean "I used ____, why didn't it kill them?", I mean in the most clinical terms, attempt to describe what the last mistake YOU MADE. No matter the situation, you WILL come up with a mistake- by taking actions at all, you guarantee that a round will play out differently from any other action, and thus a mistake WILL exist. It could be forgetting to cam out a room, simply being sloppy with your aim, or even just forgetting that a character has a certain ability. If the entire genre of fighting games have been having this EXACT "problem" since their inception, maybe it isn't the videogame's fault. Maybe, you just expect your team to consistently outperform you. That isn't fair to them.

[@batscove]

@@7fatrats I like this approach, though sometimes it's hard to find an exact mistake in games with so many variables. Sometimes you just are in the wrong place at the wrong time and you had no way to foresee it.

[@sonoda944]

@@SadToffee i want to improve at fighting game, but everytime i get 0-2'd by what game describe as "similar player skill" opponent for 9 times back to back, each by different opponent, really makes me feel powerless, stupid, dumb idiot who cannot learn from anything. I know i have skill issue, i want to improve, i put my limited free time to practice, feel confident that surely it wins me some game, it does not improve jack shit, demoted for being so shit at the game, i spiral into despair. why do i try if i cant improve. Why do i play game if it hurts me to play. Why cant i learn anything. Why do i exist. Why. Why. Why.

[@ninja666gaming]

@@7fatrats the whole point of the video is talking about how this is a mindset brought upon by bad game design

[@robsemicolon]

So what I’m hearing is, everything competitive multiplayer games get wrong, the sport of volleyball gets right perfectly.

[@Gigalisk]

I would have said Ice Hockey tbh.

[@mega17]

@@Gigalisk Ice Hockey literally has a culture of being highly aggressive and encourages contact with opponents. Volleyball is almost pure teamwork, even with rotations so players cannot get complacent.

[@mega17]

Having watched Haikyuu, YES!

[@jackbishop8610]

​@@mega17And yet the less aggressive Hockey gets, the more toxic it gets. We see the same thing in a lot of games. Also Black Ops 2 gets everything right because nothing matters but skill and fun, and it's not balanced like a deaf girl on side of a teeter totter like a lot of newer games. When someone flames me on Blops 2 I just shoot him with my KSG.

[@morthim]

it litterally is the best team building game. if you find yourself in management a varient of volley ball is litterally the best sport you could choose.

[@Rainbowhawk1993]

Single Player gamer to multiplayer gamer: “Wow, sucks to be you.”

[@anitacrumbly]

lmao they love pain and anger

[@Cepterman]

I used to be singleplayer only, but then I found the cooperative shooter Deep Rock Galactic. Since then I am identifying as a Dwarf. Rock and Stone.

[@scrittle]

Competitive players will point out the obvious flaws in multiplayer and then go back to playing it to repeat the cycle. They may escape the death loop someday.

[@SaturninePlaces]

@@Cepterman To be fair that's probably the second furthest thing from a competitive multiplayer game. Great choice but I doubt it scratches the masochistic itch these guys have.

[@Mirekluk]

@@SaturninePlaces Depends. The game is great, no doubt, but if masochistic itch is what you want, then no oxygen hazard 5 run is what you want :) It has option not to scratch it though. Not possibility, but an option.

[@SadGirlNoceda]

people being like 'just stop playing competitive games' but like. there are options in most games to play casual or competitve. but its seems in practically all games that even the casual modes are full of people whose nuts are hooked up to a taser and itll go off if they lose. go play the competitive modes if you wanna be so crazy jesus christ

[@machomanalexyt5736]

"Casual" mode in comp games like league or smite are just ranked without the rank points and bans

[@jcudejko]

Most games? No Not even close

[@givrally]

That's because those "competitive games" are called that because of their vocal competitive minority. There's more casual players than sweaty competitive tryharders, but by nature they tend to yell more, so they make more noise than casual "A few qp a day" players. Because of sheer numbers and the fact they get less free rewards, casuals also tend to be the biggest source of revenue. That's why Overwatch was dying before OW2, the changes had driven out the casual players and that created a vicious circle of toxicity which drove out even more casuals, until the toxically sweaty gamers were all that's left.

[@crash7976]

well, that's just the casual scene now, it's not like the early 360 days when majority of people weren't studying a game for a meta. Stopped playing pvp games 6-7 years ago, just want to play a game to relax anymore.

[@machomanalexyt5736]

@@crash7976 The passage of time plus covid along with the e-sports scene taking off into mainstream ruined everything.

[@alface935]

Fun Fact: There is no such thing as "Teamwork" in Team Fortress 2 But then! Some Woman came up in the Mic and say it: "Mission ends in 60 seconds" and now all of suddenly not only there is "Teamwork" but also everyone and Their Mothers became an United Hivemind that will keep throwing Their lifes away into the control point/payload as if They are all being controlled by just one guided intelligence This Phenomenon got coined and popularized as the "Public Push" or "Pub Push" for short

[@leaderofthenewbencrusades746]

The pub push is real

[@DualEdgest]

It helps that TF2 and other games of its age and older have more players per game. The more players there are, the less the lack of individual skill may impact the results. Can one person single handedly dominate a server? Yeah, but that's an outlier. Now games are smaller, so one person's lack of performance is amplified, rather than masked by sheer numbers. Couple that with the matchmaking system shackling you to games you don't want to continue playing, just leaves one to stew on negative emotions.

[@alface935]

@@DualEdgest True true

[@lenkagiminesrefrigerator]

I mean this is what in my opinion makes the team in tf2 feel real. You could have 12 people all doing separate things, and then the announcer says somthing and you have a world class push where everyone is fulfilling there role to a t

[@alface935]

@@lenkagiminesrefrigerator True true it feels Magical

[@Noname72105]

Skill based matchmaking contributes a lot to this feeling too. Simultaneously knowing that your opponents are formidable and wondering how the fuck your teammates made it to your rank is a recipe for disaster.

[@Kenionatus]

The thing about ranked is that it's only sort of SBMM. To a large degree it's time based match making. If someone has more time to climb the ladder they'll climb it further. Idieally, SBMM reflects your skill as a player and groups you with players of similar skill, at which point wondering why your teammates are always so bad is looking into a mirror and seeing an idiot.

[@Noname72105]

@@Kenionatus Even in the rare situation where it's working properly, it turns every game into a sweat fest. It actively invites you to optimize the fun out of the game in the name of watching your MMR go up.

[@rival3006]

Does apex ltms have skbm? I won one gun run game and had to face master players when I haven't played the game for 5 seasons

[@SubmittedAndReadable]

Games without SBMM can often have issues with reliability of teams and how sweaty the lobby is. To balance no SBMM you have to make the teams fairly large (e.g tf2 with 12v12) but for some games this doesn’t work. SBMM also helps with playing unoptimised builds as by playing them you will eventually be going against people with the same win rate as your unoptimised build. A lot of the issues with SBMM stem from communities that obsess over meta loadouts or shiny ranks, not the system itself.

[@inksword6029]

skill based matchmaking will never be as bad as engagement based matchmaking

[@jademonas]

i have yet to go "let me relax" and go play a multiplayer competitive game

[@BestofBiryani]

Hey i play comp games to 'relax' i mean not really its more of a way to have fun in free time and relaxing isnt the right word imo for playing video games(dont wanna go in dept on that rn) And i find it actually fun Mostly coz im actually good at the game i play while not being too sweaty and have(had) good friends

[@BestofBiryani]

I dont play comp games anymore actually but it was fun while it lasted

[@Knokkelman]

Yeah, right? I'd say most people just can't relax with something that has an average loss rate of 50%, me included.

[@defnotagav]

I have found relax is not the best word for what people enjoy about it. It's more like, going to work and getting that "good job today" feeling but about something you enjoy to then provide satisfaction-dopamine-stimulation- joy- relaxation. I personally say it's stimulating or rather just fun

[@markogjorgiev4912]

I personally relax when Im playing competitive. I love competing and playing for a rank but I can't stand the sweats that live for the rank. Can't have a bad game or even make a mistake according to some no lifers.

[@maxifire32]

Solutions for the scoreboard: 1) Make assits count as kills, instead of having one number for kills and one for assists, make both be counted under kills so there's no more assist discrimination 2) If the first one doesn't work, simply make each player only able to see their own kills and deaths and not other team members' K/D, but still be able to see the opponent's K/D, so they can only blame themselves if the team did well or not and still be able to see how good or bad the opposing team was Solutions for ranked: Make each players' rank dependent on their own performance and not the team's overall performance so their rank is not on the line as much

[@Peyton-f8m]

The announcers screams your death/enemy kills. You would have people counting. People would instantly die with no knowledge of why darius 2 hit them being 6/0 People pointing the finger isn't whats toxic, its the 2 factors. 1. Sion being 0/12 isn't the same as darius or fizz being 0/12. Sion isn't punished HARD enough for deaths because death timers aren't really punishing enough. 2. Darius being 12/0 isn't the same as zed being 12/0. Darius getting kills is funny, but makes sense as his kit is geared towards that. ZED is notoriously weak at all stages of lol and has been kept in the shadows intentionally. He has GREAT target access and lower kill power early to compensate. He just has more mobility. If he is 12/0 your mid laner is MUCH worse, and he is MUCH less balanced than 12/0 darius.

[@orfibous]

I would take that a step further. Make all assists count as kills in the game economy. Let me give you an example. For 11 years War Thunder combat and especially air combat involved around the idea that the last bullet gave the kill. You may have been having a 1 v 1 dogfight with enemy wreck his plane, set him on fire and a lead him in a 100% fatal path to crash towards the ground and disengage. That moment a teammate comes hits a single bullet and steals the kill, stealing you most of the research points you would get for grinding for the next vehicle. As anyone can imagine the flame was so intense up to the point people would team kill their teammate. After a very big community outrage for many problems the game had the developers set up a roadmap to fix many but not yet all problems. Now they implemented the severe damage mechanism where both the player who did the most severe damage and the player who gave the final shot, get the kill. And oh boy that was just great. People now just don't care, you get the severe damage and whatever happens you don;t care how many of your teammates dive for the the finisher. The same goes for league and other MOBAs. 1) He who gets the kill should not get all the reward. I.E a kill giving 300 gold should be equally distributed to all people assisting or maybe all kills/objective gold should be distributed to the whole team. 2) The reward must be bigger the more players contribute to the kill / objective. I.E Today a kill gives 300g If 1 player gets a kill the reward should be lower like 100g. And there should be a pot increased by the number of assisters . If 2 players contribute to the kill the reward for each should be 150g, if 3 players contribute 200g for each, up to 300g for 5 all 5 players assisting. The same should apply to objectives like turrets, drakes, barons but there should be a minimum reward for all players so that spliting makes sense a bit. That makes ganks, team fights and generally all gameplay much more team based. 3) An assist must be counted for many more reasons. Even being in the direct vision range of a dying enemy should give an assist since you affect the enemy's psychology, movement and many more. Granting vision on the enemy should provide an assist.

[@Zentailium]

Shared kills are such a good and simple additions to any game. If you did 80% of an opponents health you deserve the credit from it.

[@rockstermaniac]

As an Overwatch player I can confirm that first one doesn't work. Even if you include assists there's still usually at least one player who is contributing less but the reasons behind that tend to be more nuanced than they're struggling... And it's not like we're unaware that the assists are being counted... players comment on their kills like it's a metric of anything and immediately get clap back because the hero they chose is notorious for being able to do tons of spam damage so their kills total gets less respect. Instead of fixing the problem it just makes it even harder to glean useful intel from the scoreboard and makes it more likely that underperforming players will claim to not be the problem and belittle their teammates for failing to match an arbitrary output expectation. At least with assists on the board (like in Rivals) you can tell who is and isn't helping their teammates to secure kills.

[@pidge3618]

Hey so making player performance matter more for rank leads to nobody wanting to do anything because they dont gain from it

[@CyFed_Republic_of_Kaltovar]

*Talks at normal volume, adds musical transitions at 7 billion volume. Now my neighbor is yelling at me through the wall.*

[@didyoubringthemilk]

yeah this guy is so stupid

[@phmeeeeeeeee]

This video is so good, it's such a shame that the audio isn't balanced at all lol

[@mrindeed4339]

Ngl that shit made me jump, i thought it was an intentional jumpscare

[@didyoubringthemilk]

@@mrindeed4339 LMAO SAME

[@Earthboundmike]

Had to find a comment about the volume, cuz yeaaaaaaaa that was very jarring.

[@redtornado422]

I would like to bring attention to the game Dead by Daylight as a strong example of what not to do. That game is kind of unique in that it actively and openly encourages selfish play with it's mechanics and character perks. As a survivor, there is an entire alternate method of winning which revolves around your teammates loosing, which will allow you to escape using a special escape hatch. There is a perk literally named 'Sole Survivor' which directly buffs you each time one of your teammates looses the match by dying.

[@SadToffee]

people who run sole survivor are notorious for being mid at best. but you are right. DBD also has and has had a whole bunch of other issues with game balance and role strength. The very idea that for the longest time the Devs balanced the game to be the survivors being the strongest role rather than them having to overcome the Killer will always be crazy to me.

[@tonyth9240]

dbd sucks so much on so many levels, it's not even fun anymore

[@Corv_a]

@@SadToffee pretty good job so far

[@Reece8u]

Biggest issue with dbd is that it weighs mmr towards survivors winning. Survivors surviving half of games means they win more than half of games

[@ludox7178]

@@SadToffee If you looped the killer for 4 gens, still died and the guy who hasn't done anything all game escape by hatch... Was it really a "skillful" play? ~DBD dev

[@azuuku]

The ranked introduction part needs to be at least 30% louder.

[@fondbeebboop9705]

50% louder

[@SadToffee]

@@fondbeebboop9705 got it, i'll add them together and make it 120% louder next video.

[@JoshwaLaw]

​@@SadToffeelol gold comment

[@HeroTTMYT]

@@SadToffeethat intro is why I play fighting games. Every game I play with a team is composed of braindead bottom of the barrel bums.

[@HeroTTMYT]

@@SadToffeejust got to the part where you told your message bruh.

[@7erong3mas]

competitive game players when they tried a story game for the first time:

[@dragondogbark]

"Enemies of your progress" is such a hard line. I hope more people find your video, ive shared it to the chat room i run.

[@SadToffee]

I very much appreciate it

[@ShakerGER]

At which point is that line? I would like the onctext and I can't find it

[@dragondogbark]

@@ShakerGER Context starts at around 8:00 and the line is at 9:05

[@Furluge]

14:40 - You might notice old school shooters like Quake would show frags and not deaths on the scoreboard. The effect this had on gameplay cannot be understated. This would encourage players to be proactive and stay on the attack and not camp or play defensively. Later games started showing deaths, and also started moving toward things like respawn timers and or rounds and that's fine, but it definitely does encourage a more defensive and slower paced game style and in most cases I don't think it works very well. It definitely does get pretty annoying in team based games because some players who get obsessed with it often will prioritize their K/D ration over accomplishing objectives.

[@wibs0n68]

I literally experienced this on the finals few weeks ago, it's so infuriating. And says shit like "10 deaths, stfu" (with shit ton of assists) because they camp so hard not doing objectives.

[@butlazgazempropan-butan11k87]

​@@wibs0n68 idl why but the finals was like 10x more fun during open beta. Like a week after its release it just was too sweaty.

[@TheDoomerBlox]

As someone that grew up on those old games, I can still be found playing deathmatch in other games - and showcasing silly things like Most Deaths + Most Frags. In FFA deathmatch, you usually have agency over who you die to - so you can play to control your deaths, spreading them onto those less likely to win, sometimes even suiciding to prevent a rival from scoring. Not all deaths are created equal! This non-evident stat-quality also translates to other scenarios: You can win in "team-based" (objective-based) game modes with far "inferior" stats because the quality of those numbers is far higher than the "better" stats. An example being low frags, high deaths - but almost all your frags were you trading for the highest-impact player of the enemy team, and the non-trade deaths were you taking up more resources than the enemy team could afford dedicating on a wild goose chase. Yet they did, because (You) were a sufficiently big problem*, and so they lost to the rest of your team. Meanwhile someone doing ""the same role"" with much better frags and low deaths, was simply picking off the easy low-impact kills, and avoiding presenting themselves as a tasty snack to be chased. They lost, because the quality of their frags and deaths was much lower than mine. Lies, big lies, statistics. How being raised on "K/D Ratio" happened is a bit of a mysterious can of worms, but suffice to say that it's a very flawed worldview. * (in this scenario I am tastefully leaving out the fact that both players had similar damage output, IN SPITE of me dying and respawning 3x+ as much as my mirror image on the enemy team, so despite 'poopy stats' on the scoreboard, the perceived threat was very real)

[@wibs0n68]

@@butlazgazempropan-butan11k87 anything is fun in beta test (also same case with strinova)

[@LordofDestruction123]

This explains why "boomer shooters" like Unreal Tournament feel so much more fast-paced compared to modern CoDs... and why I barely touch fps games anymore.

[@Emi_Tempi]

"My team ruined the game for me." Is the primary reason I stay away from PvP and competitive games. If anyone is allowed to ruin my fun, then that would be me!

[@kotlolish]

True! My team ruined the game is a problem in any team based game. Even PVE ones. Though you look stupider in PVE! WoW raiding is a great example of "Putting a competitive edge" on something that doesn't actually have one. Aka "Highest DPS ratings" (wich was never a thing, but was added via mods intially) This put a compettive edge in a fully cooperative style. Heck FF14 Online also is getting this in their high rate raiding where certain classes would just be booted off the team or people throw on purpose cause "EW You are playing a DRAGOON!? Their max DPS is so low! I don't want to do it" And it sucks.. cause this competitive edge has also made people cheat in these games.. aka 1st world clears of the hardest raids.

[@Zack_Wester]

@@kotlolish yep remmber that. even worse in WOW okey if we got 25 semi competent player Doing a raid all whit gear of Green quality exept one piece been blue. the raid is 75% successful all comes down to if a fear cast by the boss causes the tank to die or not. the color scale higher nr better, Grey = 1, white=2, green=3, blue=4, orange=5. nope all memmber in the raid need to be super competent like they need to know the nr behind the game that the boss Fearshack does 312 point of fear. most player see fear and as it tooltip says low, medium, hight or total (312 points is medium). low is 0-100 point (not mention anywhere by the way). Tank can pick a tallent that says gives them low fear resistance. in 99% of the time knowing that Fearshack does medium fear damage or 312 is completely useless information. and that the gear requirement are full blue whit one orange item. success chance is 120% or so. Problem is now that a newer player that wants to join is not going to get in and learn the raid. First they will fail the 312 fearshack knowledge thing because rightfully so pointless 99% of the time. two they are wearing white whit a few Green items. and that should not be a problem whit a group full of blue gear. heck you know that group whit 75% sucsess chance whit just green gear they have a tradition to get one player or more to run whit Gray gear just for fun and they can still do it. then come the fact that SPEED RUN lets go go go. I remember that before every pull in the old days the raid leader that had done the raid before would do the tactic would tell how to deal whit the next encounter. yes that meant that he spend 1-3 min per mob group that the blue team would just blitz down. meaning that the raid took 25 min instead of 10-15 min. but the newcomers was a lot less stressed could learn how there class and roll and all that you know teamwork. the raid leader or one of the more senior member might even spot that a player is not using a ability or miss understanding how it work and correct them. they are not telling them to play optimal like doing a perfect spell rotation no but Like okey you got that tallent (not the most meta but it does work) but you have missread how it works, and I see that you forgot to cast X do you want me to tell you when its time to cast it. and can do that. [Create macro...] /say Player X cast Y now. put on hotbar.

[@PhySIcSToRM-it7oc]

Playing team based online games is fun if everyone just act normally. But when those toxic players join, they ruin the fun part and no one can prevent from this, because too many gamers act toxic. Forexample a teammate comes, if you help him, he says "Don't steal my kill, go away noob" and if you don't help him, "My dumb teammates are too noob, hate this." Then there's noway to play for fun with these type of players.

[@scoobertdoobert1774]

Most teammates seem to be in the middle from what I see, unless they actively stand in doorways on a game you can't walk through your teammates. Too many times I have died to grenades I could have gotten away from if doorway Dilbert wasn't looking the wrong direction in the most inconvenient spot possible to just themselves get shot in the back don't be a doorway Dilbert folks.

[@Zack_Wester]

@@scoobertdoobert1774 game needs a shovel pass team mate. like if someone is blooking the door I can press something to shovel myself pass them (slower then running).

[@Krilium]

I found that being polite and asking in a nice friendly way works 70% of the time. I think we all have a really short fuse when it comes to competitive gaming and we all have had the same negative experiences so we automatically assume malice from all our teammates. Breaking that cycle by being kind and friendly tends to work quite a lot. Failing that, you can slur them

[@name5980]

Pros and cons of this video Pros: -Informative -Clear points -Covers all important topics Cons: -I had to watch it twice to notice the pros, since the first time I was too busy vibing to the Yo-Kai Watch background music

[@joehudson7007]

I had to dip out half way to Jam out to lethal league music

[@FelisImpurrator]

I was listening to the Ace Attorney track at the start.

[@Ferrari255GTO]

​@@joehudson7007 no offense but listening to music is a thing man, just look up the name and come back later 😂

[@carrymycross6523]

Leagues autofill system is so broken it just needs to be rebuilt. Tyler1 has showed multiple times, on stream, where his entire team will be autofilled, yet the enemy will all be on role. I think Riot implemented autofill as a way to attempt to keep that 50% win rate, but hide under the "it's to lower queue times". I quit League 7 years ago due to what you mention in this video. After around season 6 or 7, it really felt like if I was solo queueing, everyone was playing their own game.

[@SadToffee]

I definitely have thought once or twice about quitting league myself, and I've gone long stints without playing. I didn't get to talk much about high elo specifically but having a lower pool of players can definitely exacerbate some of the issues I spoke about. Thanks for watching the video!

[@TrueMarko]

only in high elo...

[@existentiallamp]

i dont trust tyler1 to have a level headed take about league of legends. autofill is in the game because it reduces queue times. Yes riot wants you to have a 50% win rate. that is what skill based match making does. They do not need to rig matches against you to do so. If your winrate is greater than 50%, then you will climb and face better players until you do.

[@xygore0001]

​@existentiallamp at a certain point you can't get better opponents though, and all the system can do is give you worse teammates, or autofill them.

[@NewUser000NewUser]

To be fair,Tyler 1 is complaining often as fvck.

[@Amathyy]

How to be fine with competitive games. -dont care about rank or wins -take it with fun (especially with dumb teammates) -mute if toxic people affect you If you don't do that you are basically trolling your own mentality

[@membranealpha5961]

trolling your own mentality is a good one im stealing that

[@sonoda944]

but then why play games when theres no sense of accomplishment or feel of progress

[@CrazyDoodEpicLeaves]

How to be fine with competitive games: -Don't play competitive games.

[@skelebrosgaming2187]

​@@sonoda944 The sense of accomplishment is the moments in the match. Some people aim for high ranks and wins, some are content with the kills they get even if they lose. Accomplishment is purely subjective, and not everyone needs accomplishment to enjoy games.

[@sonoda944]

@@skelebrosgaming2187 then all the "enjoyment" is subjective too

[@thatexoguy6721]

Paladins nailed this aspect when it was still relatively new-ish. I queued with just my brother, he'd usually go tank or DPS and I'd go support as a little fox guy named Pip. The heroes were very customizable despite having fixed roles, and while Pip was an AoE healer, he could do damage and area denial too and do them pretty well, to the point that I could 1v1 most enemy tanks or DPS players with the right loadout. So while my brother was busy capturing and holding points or pushing payloads, I'd make sure that everyone was topped up on health, and I even did some limited roaming and flanking. It sounds stupid that a healer could do that, but the loadouts made it not only feasible, but also rewarding to do all of those at once. My favorite card in my loadout was one that gave me HP too when I healed my teammates, and it made my self-heals more effective if I wasn't in the splash. It meant that I never thought twice about healing a tank or DPS in the distance instead of saving the heal for myself. And there were tons of other things like that which made it an absolute pleasure to play a support that could also go on the offensive when needed. Then they started adding p2w champions and nerfed the f2p ones until the game wasn't fun anymore and it started being frustrating. I still yearn for that feeling of pure fun and bliss I used to get in that game, it was by far my most favorite hero shooter.

[@SadToffee]

Yeah Paladins was a weird one, I personally always liked full damage Zhin with some ammo buffs, the ability to dive one or two players and then billow away was really fun.

[@VarenvelDarakus]

as someone who studied game design for 2 years to become software tester and spoke with quite few people who worked in industry for 5 , 10 , 20 years , from videogames to software it would surprise you how much such things are deliberate design , i finished that school after 2 years+- who was 2017/2018 and even back then everyone during courses and teachers joked that "developer companies are hiering more psychologists now then game developers" , the amount of player manipulation i seen during courses would only rival politics propaganda. but honestly for me its tiering to even talk about it as most people i spoke dismissed it , or said "it cant be as bad as you say" , but things i seen made me bleak to a lot who happened in 2018-2024 years , companies chasing gold rush , "revenue never being enough" and gaslighting their players , even throwing them at each other for profit (players arguing with each other wont yell at company) , manipulating perception , Pavlov dog , sunken cost fallacies and more. i think game who i seen all you spoke in video and more is warthunder , who their psychology is peak of "abusive relacionship" who players then will pass onto new players

[@denofpigs2575]

I believe you, even if most people dismiss you. I know how that feels lol.

[@WhatIsMyPorpoise]

Yeah, there’s so many dark patterns in game design nowadays, and the philosophy behind much current game design often ends up touting those things as a good thing. Why on earth has “addictive gameplay” become something that sells a game? Competitive game really feature the worst of them, as they’ve been seen as the microtransaction cashcows of current gaming so every studio is desperate to try their hand and manipulate as many players into spending a lil extra money.

[@theglitch5386]

Also getting into the industry, and it hurts me to see so many good mechanics and so much valuable information get twisted to make money instead of art. Monetization systems that could lower the bar for people to start playing games become excuses to make unfinished messes. Ranked systems that could naturally push for incremental improvements while supporting varied experience levels are instead forged as chains to keep anyone who enters tied to them for as long as possible. We know what players enjoy and how to make it. There are just fewer and fewer studios willing to make things that way.

[@VarenvelDarakus]

@@theglitch5386 yes that was also painful , I'm glad steam and indie games exist tho

[@vcool122]

I'm not even working in that industry and I know about how they use the sunk cost fallacy to hook players and how some competitive games deliberatly pits better players that bought obvious store items against people that haven't bought anything to make them want to buy stuff. How can people say "it isn't that bad"? That's why I'm highly selective on own I spend my money in games.

[@taru3374]

for the spectating problem I think Intruder does it the best because of its inherent design not letting you talk to your dead teammates. When you die in Intruder you get put in a free cam that doesn't allow you to talk to your teammates at all but the other team and whoever else is dead so you get this like third person comedy look at the fight and it can be really funny instead of frustrating. It also helps that that game is not very competitive.

[@SadToffee]

intruder in general subverts a lot of anger with comedy. the banana peel being a very notable example of a game mechanic that should be frustrating but is instead funny, because how can it NOT be funny? it's a banana peel! Intruder really is one of those games that takes extra measures to remind the player not to take themselves so seriously. and it's very admirable for that.

[@escapegrass]

“Players will optimize the fun out of a game, it’s the development team’s job to save the player from themselves”

[@noyoucantsaythat]

This only applies when the devs aren't pants on head apes.

[@xolotltolox]

This is entirely unrelated This quote is about that if the optimal way to win isn't fun, then it's a problem with the game...

[@escapegrass]

@@xolotltolox Interesting take, I thought it meant optimization would take the novelty and excitement of the game out in favor of competition. Due to the standardizing of strategies.

[@TlalocTemporal]

​@@escapegrass-- And yet Factorio exists, where the entire game _is_ optimization, yet that's fun so it's great!

[@eadbert1935]

this is often used in RPGs, especially TTRPG do you make a roleplay character or do you make a min-maxed character? min-maxing can be fun, but if the game mechanics are focused on roleplay, maybe having a fun character to roleplay is better? also, i've heard it's one of the reasons they added turn limits to xcom. the optimal way to play was defensive, so they changed the optimal strategy by adding a turn limit and forcing aggression.

[@silverlight6074]

This randomly popped into my feed, and instead of following the trend of comments about competitive games (you can absolutely have fun and relax with competitive games), I'm just going to say that this reminds me of the *tragedy* that was Dawngate. Simply adding a whole system based on anti-toxicity would go so much farther than any other efforts.

[@Ludovianco]

Actually best comment

[@Peyton-f8m]

... it has that. Its an honor system and has bonus rewards, and tons of other things including honor points etc. The issue is lol as a core game design seems to function off of controlling the wins and losses of the player base at all elos with math/algorithms/personal vendettas. Its a game that feels..... off. And as stated is completely coded to make you hate your teammates if you lose. Every game. No matter what. Even if you go 0/10, you can bet yourself the enemy champ was probably gankable. I know as a support alistar who sometimes starts in the top bush to headbutt weaker top laners straight towers my darius/sett, its funny and effective lvl 1 cheese. I KNOW a morg bind in the same situation would be PURE destruction. So when I see a 30% hp yone under my tower as I am top leona/morg/annie/insert champ with cc 2+ seconds of hard cc... for like 3 mins. I know somethings wrong this game.

[@silverlight6074]

​@@Peyton-f8m It *eventually* got the honor system, sure. That didn't exist at all for the first several years, and it didn't reward honorable gameplay at the time I played it (from before Season 1 through to...I want to say Season 7). The problem with that being that it didn't start from there. League of Legends started off as a salt mine where you could only learn to play the game by trial and error, and there was very little consequence to being toxic and terrible. The honor system being added later is like trying to put a band-aid on gangrene.

[@trinstonmichaels7062]

You see I solve this problem by not playing online games.

[@BurninButter]

My favorite game doesn't even have multiplayer

[@hegotnoenemies]

Yup. Used to be only a PvP player. None of that shit matters to me anymore and now I just play RimWorld on the side as I write a book.

[@TemmieContingenC]

I take my rage out on my Rimworld pawns. Many deserve it, some don’t, but it’s either I bust a hole into my PC monitor or I give a slave peg legs and force it to work on making human leather furniture in my colony

[@BurninButter]

-3 Ate without table

[@unyin7721]

The real reason all these games are being ruined is because of the single-server matchmaking system. The best multiplayer has always been on bespoke dedicated servers, where a given community of players can create the atmosphere they want. You can have the ultra-competitive servers, the zone-out one-map-on-repeat stoner servers, the funny shenanigans servers, and everything in-between. A lot of the players on any of the aforementioned servers would hate playing with anyone from the other servers, and when they can choose to stick to themselves (and kick other players that aren't getting with the program), everyone is happier. Unfortunately most online multi throws all of these player types into the same queue, on the same server, which just pisses everyone off.

[@hertzwave8001]

but how will they milk you for skins and dlc if you can just make your own content?

[@unyin7721]

@@hertzwave8001 exactly... T_T

[@DudeDude-ou8mw]

Sayings like "given the chance, gamers will optimize the fun out of a game," show us that developers don't see different kinds of gamers. They just see gamer and think all gamers are the same.

[@FerwynaArianrhod]

@@hertzwave8001 Team Fortress 2 does both, and even resulted in its own player economy within it, it's entirely doable but you wont be likely to see it from companies like EA or Ubisoft

[@---wu2dw]

Dear god I miss the good old css days.

[@harlequinems]

My golden rule is "never play multilayer games outside of my real life friend group". No mass multi player games, no games you HAVE to be online for, no games where you have to rely on anyone you don't know. My gaming life is perfect 👌

[@olafthebear2327]

"PvE? Really? A man of your talents" "It's a peaceful life"

[@blacktigerace6687]

deep rock galactic will change your opinion about that rock and stone to the bone!

[@aneonfoxtribute]

Imagine not playing Hitman because it's always online despite being a solo game. That is unfortunately not a life I would wish for

[@Ixarus6713]

​@@blacktigerace6687 One of the only multiplayer games I can tolerate and even have fun in. Aside from the occasional jerk who kicks you because you aren't level 999999..

[@haassteambraker9959]

​@@blacktigerace6687tbf it helps massively to not have other players as the opposition. imo a lot of the stress in PVP simply comes from that. Real humans that know the maps better, have a greater understanding of how to play particular weapons/heroes, and a better eye. Enemy teams that coordinate better, communicate better, even as randoms. You feel like you can't do anything. You feel like your team isn't doing anything. The defeat is crushing. And unlike bots, where you can just say some value or another is too strong, you decide to start using the loadout of whoever just clowned you and still can't get those kinda games. Even if you are performing better, its not so dramatic that you start dominating lobbies. The victories are mediocre. Then at the end of the night, you see you have a W/L of 1.1. Better than a coin toss. An indication, meager as it is, that you were a positive influence on your team's performances in that session. And yet it feels hollow, because mediocre victories do not balance out soul crushing defeats. As for why you keep playing? Sometimes the stars align, the pins are set, and you finally, *finally*, bowl a strike. Top of the leaderboard, bulk of the kills are yours. You feel like a *god* and you so desperately chase that high ever night after.

[@RamiCrafy]

More accurate title: "THIS is ruining all of yor favorite TEAM-BASED COMPETITIVE games" Btw, loved the paper mario games background music :)

[@D4rkM00n1]

Unpopular opinion: You're playing the wrong games to relax, you need to try different games. Competitive games will never offer what you want. Your point is like: "I want to relax so I'm gonna go compete in the Olympics."

[@SadToffee]

playing to improve is just how I like to spend my time I don't know what to tell you

[@D4rkM00n1]

@@SadToffee That's fair enough my man, but you're never going to be able to relax playing competitive games. Took me 25 years to realize that :/ I would say, measure your expectations heading into competitive games.

[@abra-k]

imo they can be relaxing. It's like solving a puzzle, trying new strategies, figuring out counter-play of certain match-ups yada yada. If winning or losing is not a factor, then they can be fun. I'm not saying that I'm magically immune to that mindset (having fun bc of winning) and I am now never tilted ever. Just want to throw out there that a lot of ppl I met have the wrong mindset in competitive games.

[@branch7628]

​@SadToffee then your goal is to improve, not to enjoy the experience. Totally moved the goalposts

[@YaGirlGumption]

Yeah which is it. You wanna have fun or are you taking it seriously and improving?

[@nezunskyfire292]

Watching the League clips made me remember that you will always be a *recovering* League addict and never a *recovered* addict lmao

[@_piranha]

Not with the Vanguard update. Personally, i would have come back yet again, but them adding this garbage piece of bloatware that i do not want on my computer made me never install it again.

[@mir4924]

Haven't touched it in over 2 years now. No matter how much my friends pester me to reinstall it.

[@cynicle]

@@_piranha Same boat. Vanguard needing to run on startup... Destroyed any incentive for me to instinctively fire up that game on odd occasions or commit more seriously to it. Did you know Riot client needs to run at all times when you run [Xbox] Gamepass too? Even if you aren't playing a Riot game(That can be circumnavigated if you're savvy, doesn't stop it from being bullshit though).

[@nilly0052]

For real. I had a bad league addiction and quit over 5 years ago. Still the moment the footage came up my brain immediately fired with the desire to click that low health cannon minion to grab that juicy gold.

[@xfonikos]

the fact that i thought this would be a multi million viewed video says something. good job

[@SadToffee]

I really appreciate it! you flatter me.

[@vatum20]

It isn't, but I got a feeling it will be.

[@Multi1]

Weird, I thought the transitions were a little cringe.

[@kwarrior_49]

@@Multi1 i'd disagree, but even if you say they are, there's a good chunk of youtubers who do get millions of views that are far cringier than this could ever be

[@Litepaw]

Damn, it will be. Really interesting topic, thumbnail, and video title. And the algorithm seems to have picked it up.

[@Enderception]

Surprised you didn't mention how League is literally designed in a way that you can screw over your fellow players if you steal a kill. That's one of the most baffling things to me since it's so obviously anti-teamwork and is such a massive source of friction between players

[@SGT_Squid_Dog]

500 hours into elden ring and I loved every second, 5 minutes into tf2 and I want to uninstall my entire computer. Point is: play single player games for enjoyment, play multiplayer games for friends

[@Dr.Freeman...]

i play multiplayer games for enjoyment :P my only massive multiplayer game is tf2

[@stfuplease1051]

skill issue?

[@DesolateLavender]

TF2 is like the most relaxing game you could play for multiplayer. You just need the right goofy attitude for it.

[@TheDragShot]

TF2 is literally the most laidback PvP game out there. How the hell are you playing it to feel stressed? 😂

[@strangerinastrangeland3613]

@@DesolateLavender Nobody ever has said TF2 is a relaxing game, lmfao.

[@icetide9411]

I took a sip of water before that rant in the beginning. I quite literally had to hold my mouth shut with my hand because I was trying to not spit my water everywhere. The sheer RAGE felt so genuine

[@SadToffee]

Others seem to have believed it even harder than you did XD

[@Jedededededede]

Solution: Play fighting games. No one to blame other than yourself so if you blame anything other than you ability, you’re just a kid.

[@LungDrago]

Exactly. I've come to realize over the years that while a lot of the team vs team games out there are very popular, they just aren't good games for a solo player. League maybe makes some semblance of sense in tournaments with 5 player premades, but playing online ranked, solo, is just masochistic. I wish I realized it earlier or if I could retroactively change the hours I poured into MOBAs into Street Fighter instead.

[@xdeathcon]

Absolutely. I realized at some point while playing league only because my friends played league that I actually hate it and don't really like team games with randoms in general. I don't mind a team game where everyone queued together, but it's awful apart from that. 1v1 games are the best answer. Your wins and losses are all entirely based on your choices and performance as opposed to the other player.

[@RoadKamelot2nd]

Unfortunately, most of them can't be played unless you treat them like a second job and play EVERY DAY. I've gone through the experience. Played Guilty Gear XX #Reload (community-made online mode for PC) for a year and did well enough to have fun. Years later, I tried to play Guilty Gear Xrd, but the delay-based netcode made it REALLY hard. By the time it got rollback netcode, the game was nothing but grizzled vets who wouldn't even let you play. Tried Under Night in-Birth 2. Two months into release, there's already no shortage of Seth and Byakuya players who already have their play in and out and you might as well go make coffee while being treated like a training dummy in Mission mode. I love fighting games, but I love other games too. And fighting games are not playable online if you're not fully committed.

[@LungDrago]

@@RoadKamelot2nd I don't think it's a problem specific to fighting games, it's just a natural way by which any competitive game evolves over time. You will be just fine if you're playing a game versus people around your skill level. Unfortunately, that becomes harder as a game gets older. For obvious reasons the players that are still playing the game years after launch are those who have been playing all along and the casual player base by that point either got already converted into the core one or they disappeared somewhere along the way. In a way, you and me are both guilty of this self-fulfilling prophecy. The fact that we will decide to just go and play something else for a while is the reason why when we return a year later, we find the game is full of mostly smurf accounts and there aren't any players left at our actual skill level.

[@senri3125]

Balancing issues:

[@tranthien3932]

How to stop playing any competitive games. Step 1: Uninstall the game Step 2: Profit ...It's deeply saddened me that most people isn't able to complete step 1.

[@Ludovianco]

It's deeply saddening that people refuse to proof read their comments before posting its

[@BeastlyMussel61]

I miss when shooters were just that thing you dropped into and you could just rage quit with no consequences. Now every shooter is either a battle Royale or the most high stakes comp you've ever seen

[@Joaquin__]

"if u leave this comp game 5 minutes early because u died and u know u will lose then thats a 7 day ban and you are getting deranked 10x over"

[@jacquesdube6294]

@@Joaquin__translation to casual gamer : just go play something else. Which is exactly the problem if you want to play that f*cking game… Many games are like a marriage contract. If you can’t commits 20 hours a day, f*ck off…

[@Joaquin__]

@@jacquesdube6294 one of my friends has been banned on siege many times because he thought he had time to play a full comp match but had to leave early and i wouldnt really consider him a casual gamer this type of system to punish quitters screws everyone over

[@jacquesdube6294]

@@Joaquin__ I agree 100%. This corporate thinking need to change. Gaming is a business for those who provide games, not the players. You should not force players to play, just make good games that make them come back. It’s not like every match is a tournament…😩

[@machomanalexyt5736]

I think the real problem here is the nature and termperament of humans. The ones who are the most obsessed and dedicated with the most free time are the ones who will be at the top. Like it or not, domination over the weak is fun. We've been doing it for hundreds of thousands of years. We have evolved to do this to survive; which is why our dopamine activates when we get a "kill" (a kill can also just mean succeeding in any capacity).

[@Ratscallion_exe]

Team Fortress 2 rule of thumb: _Teamwork is rewarded, _*_*NOT MANDATORY*_* 5 self-sufficient individuals on the same team, is better than a group of 5 people YOUR FREEDOM, YOUR RESPONSIBILITY, you don't need to agree with others, you need to find common ground despite the differences and _PUSH THE CART FORRWWAAARRDD!_ (PTFO)

[@Ratscallion_exe]

@@SioxerNikita _THE OBJECTIVE_

[@Monster-39]

Good. That why Tf2 is still alive. Hopefully Summer Update is gonna be interesting.. well at least interesting maps

[@Monster-39]

​@@SioxerNikita Correct. But without Signature Tf 2 gameplay and lots of community servers with different gamemods.The game would be dead by now if Gameplay was bad and didn't have Community servers

[@Ratscallion_exe]

@SioxerNikita The reason why Tf2 is still alive, is that there is no game that scratches the same tastes of >old-school shooter movement mechanics >buggy Source jank engine that allows multiple techniques like Shield-surfing, Rocket Jumping, Sentry Rocket jumping, Enemy Rocket surfing, several backstab methods >Each class being independent on their own, and still doing their job well (The weakest supportive class, _The Spy_ HAS A GUN AND ABILITY TO SEE WEAK ENEMIES HEALTH on top of insta-kill backstabs and invisibility). Complete opposite of Overwatch strict team building compositions/quick-switching meta... at least 1 of each Tf2 class per game of 24 people... >Variety of original weapons and variants that change their original stats more or less, without making standard options too unreliable to use >9 Psychopaths with unique KZbin shorts to help characterize them >Casual Nature which doesn't have to rely on E-sports, meaning that both can co-exist (Fun first, competition later, but not in reverse) Why do people HATE the recent bot crysis, BECAUSE THEY CARE _"The opposite of **Love** is not **Hate** but **Apathy** " Ignorance, Negligence, Being Inconsiderate of details, Assumptions rather than certain facts Tf2 Players care, and they have both Love & Hate to spare, free of charge...

[@Monster-39]

@@Ratscallion_exe Man now you give me another reason to go back to Tf2. Will wait for summer update and play it

[@jestbag6001]

lesson to learn, don't play casual competitive games as a working adult

[@SadToffee]

XDefiant feels like the old days where you didn't have to sweat your ass off just to have fun so if you haven't tried that I'd give it a shot.

[@theycallmeklutchkid]

Bad take, same thing as saying "dont go fishing as an adult" or "dont watch football as an adult"

[@jestbag6001]

@@theycallmeklutchkid is it stressful to go fishing? is it stressful to watch- actually yeah, that one can get heated very fast

[@oashky]

Or just give up and play single player lmao BUT it gets like 2000% more enjoyable with friends.

[@ChristoffRevan]

​@@jestbag6001His fishing example may be wack, but the idea remains valid...lots of things people do for entertainment can become taxing either mentally or physically, but people still engage in those activities. I'm tired of this whole trend nowadays of people demanding for videogames to all become super casual...games should have their niche, and if you don't like that niche then don't play it. Take Tarkov for example, you get a ton of people whining about the difficulty, yet that difficulty is literally the premise of the game, to survive an insurmountable force.

[@entropy04]

1:00 Goro Akechi is that you?

[@EmperorOfApathy]

No idea why this video was in my recommended cause I don't play "I don't know what mental health is" simulators, but the rant at the start was so gripping I stayed anyway

[@jademonas]

same

[@scrittle]

His opinion acts on a common mantra in the gaming sphere that competitive is flawed and annoying. Competitive is stressful by design, all developers can do to mitigate it is reduce penalties on death, offer come-back mechanics, and use old-era competitive lobby sifting that pits pros & experienced & newbies together split equally allowing the experienced and newbies to learn off the pros. Censoring curse words, team-only voice chat, skill-based matchmaking and perma-death don't remedy this.

[@SeanCrosser]

​@@scrittle what kinda competitive matching is it that puts pros AND experienced AND newbies in one team?! What's the point of being ranked?!

[@scrittle]

@@SeanCrosser Get many kill - win :) You no need the gratification of been the best

[@xdeathcon]

​@SeanCrosser This is something that exists more in older games that are based around pick up games rather than matchmaking. You join a lobby, it fills up, and then teams are picked by captains or distributed by ranking. The rankings are still based on wins, losses, and performance, but it's more of just a number indicating skill rather than a ranked ladder system to be climbed. It helps a lot with improving, as well, since you can pay attention to what better players are doing instead of playing against other players that make awful choices and have bad habits.

[@erikmichels2695]

Another thing against score boards: Often, they dont show how much you helped the team, but how good you were by yourself. if you spent 20% of a match geting somewere were you can, for example, block off an entrence, you dont earn many points, but you massively helped your team.

[@DudeDude-ou8mw]

I've been in matches where the 0/2/0 was actually the key factor to the win. Completely on his own the entire game, constantly getting tag teamed, can't leave the lane, no one can afford to assist his lane, can't quite manage a kill on his opponent (opponent has a rock character to his scissors character), but barely dies from his short straw position and never loses the tower. The scoreboard says he's a truly awful player, but he's the only reason we won. A lesser player would've lost at least 2 towers and started the snowball against his team.

[@Venomx-nb1jr]

@@DudeDude-ou8mwI had 18 assists in Val today in a match and I had randoms asking me if I was actually peak gold, implying because I wasn’t fragging I was bad. Brother what the hell is that line of thinking? We’re winning the damn game. If you the duelist have 25 kills and I the initiator have 18 assists then what does that tell you? It’s like being mad at a point guard for not having 50 points when he has 25 assists. Bro you can’t score and get an assist at the same time. Someone has to take the shot and someone has to make the pass. Some of these kids have some serious brain rot.

[@theveganduolingobird7349]

I feel the major issue with league is it’s state of slow balling, it takes one death to literally ruin an entire game so when your mid laner dies once to a minor miss play the game can just entirely be fucked. This isn’t even a ranked issue if you die twice in draft or even god damn quick play the games over. I had someone unironically be toxic to my friend in bots 💀 There’s also something to be said about the psychological impact of games with wildly different play styles, almost everyone just hates a role either on their team or the enemy team. The same can be seen in DBD where a lot of survivor players just fucking despise killer players and vice versa while playing the same game. This type of dichotomy is even seen in loadout shooters where players who play a specific gun get hated on by others

[@boredomkiller99]

Honestly this is just an issue with League in general and why I hated it, often one early death in the first few minutes can mean you already lost the game 20 minutes later. Fighting games don't have that issue as you literally can turn the tide as long as your hp isn't zero and if you made a round losing move in the the first 10 seconds well the timer is 99 seconds and you will likely be dead in 20 so you don't spend 20 minutes waiting to die.

[@vladys5238]

unless you're playing gm+ it's not over from a death you just gotta play the wave and be careful. But it makes it a lot harder so given everyone around you is a similar skill level it is subjectively "over" unless you overperform and play more optimally. Many times the optimal play is boring especially when you are behind. So the game just gets more boring the better you get but losing is miserable.

[@vladys5238]

​@@boredomkiller99snowballing just gives you more control. Unless they are perfect the enemy will make mistakes being given that control the only difference is you have to play for those mistakes and you lose the control of the game which is why it feels like the "game is lost"

[@theveganduolingobird7349]

@@vladys5238 one death doesnt always lead to a loss but quite a lot of the time it can make a game reasonably unwinnable assuming both teams are relatively equal in terms of skill, if my mid dies to a zed and my support doesnt ward right, Zed could then become 3/0 causing the game to basically be over

[@vladys5238]

@@theveganduolingobird7349 yeah i've mentioned this. this game is a lot harder to play from behind making comebacks relatively unlikely because if you were good enough to carry it you prob wouldn't be in whatever division you are in the first place

[@MrLevaux]

List of Games that don't stress me out or send me into a blinding rage: Solo Games: 1. Skyrim (Am I wrong?! xD) 2. Sims 4 3. Spider-Man/2 Coop: 1. The Borderlands Franchise (Literally a Looter Shooter) 2. Bauldr's Gate 3 3. Monster Hunter Rise Competitive: 1. Mortal Kombat 1 2. Halo (Cuz I rarely played comp fr. It was story and forge with the homies). 3. Tekken 8 (I like fighting games lol) Visual Novels: (Indie) 1. Tri City Monsters 2. Error 143 3. Cryptid Crush The games we've been playing invites: 1. Strangers of varying skill levels 2. Trolls/unsportsmanlike behavior 3. Gacha Mechanics With the games stated above you're more aware of when you're ready to put the game down. But the other games have yall glued into your seat until you get a level of satisfaction you'll never reach at the cost of your happiness, wallet, and health. THEN you have to go back to work after that. "bUt It'S fReE!" No it ain't. It eats up all your time as much as possible in hopes you drop a stupid amount of money on it. No thank you. I'll replay Spider-Man ty. Honestly I should've known Overwatch was a trap cuz there was no story mode. They even admitted they wanted more people to play comp but don't have a story mode to when we want to take a break from comp. Custom ain't always all of that and all the other modes you are put up against people. OW is worst than souls games tbh and I think I'd rather play COD cuz "Team Deathmatch" doesn't require nearly as much teamwork. Everyone's a DPS and you only have yourself to blame for dying in most situations. The comments are right. Please for your own sakes pick up a different game as your "After work" or "No braincell" kind of game. There is no relaxation in a game where you have to communicate and micromanage other human beings.

[@DerpPickles]

I encourage people to look into some of the patents that Riot and other games have on using psychological manipulation and modifying game parameters such as crit chance or hitbox size to rig the outcomes in such a way to maximize player retention and in game spending.

[@Hirotechnics]

This comment needs more visibility. Big games don't care about your happiness, just extracting the most value from you.

[@kierahuskarl]

Bingo, I was agreeing with the video all the way along but we tend to fall into the false assumption that game devs even *want* to improve their games.They don't because delaying that dopamine hit and player satisfaction will always be more profitable than just letting you have your fun and move on to something else.

[@sathalel4084]

@@Hirotechnics good job you learned what capitalism is personally I learned this back in middle school.

[@seancondon5572]

Real life has taught me that, when put in team situations, the only thing I can count on is every other team member putting in ZERO effort while I end up having to carry the whole damn thing.

[@Grimith93]

uh vision score is absolutely showed on the scoreboard

[@SadToffee]

yep, I was simply a goofball

[@Grimith93]

@@SadToffee lol happens, tbh i play a lot of league idk why i feel like the only player who dosnt get tilted your vid was a nice incite to how people think

[@SadToffee]

@@Grimith93 I appreciate you for watching the video!

[@galliro]

​@@SadToffeeToo be fair it didnt use to

[@simedinson984]

​@@Grimith93nice to see a fellow non tilter, also the issue with vision score is it doesn't update until the ward dies, and also if for example a support sweeps for the adv to kill wards the adv gets the score

[@wolfy3356]

Part of the reason I avoid people when I play solo let alone talk sometimes is because of how toxic some communities get. There have been many cases where I am playing team support or even Top fragging on entries to site and my teammates decide I need to be tk'd, shat on, or outright mocked and bullied until the match is over. This goes with COD and many other team based games or multiplayer games.

[@SadToffee]

yeah, some folks are just wack.

[@DrownedLamp]

0:30 God is dead. Man killed God. Nerf the shotgun. God isn't even bothering to respawn.

[@IparIzar]

How can god nerf the shotgun if he's dead? I think we screwed ourselves with this one.

[@TlalocTemporal]

​@@IparIzar-- Dammit, who banned the mods?

[@No-Clipper.21rd]

Alright, hand over the phone lil bro

[@Kiserbaron]

God? Maybe ​@@TlalocTemporal

[@alaxt.6215]

Remember, nothing engages users quite like anger. The angrier a game makes you, the more likely you are to pick it back up or form an addiction. Game companies have realized they can make more money off you by getting you addicted to their games.

[@Nyla_Corvina]

Yeah... no the more angry a game makes me the less likely I am to touch it. Anger is not a fun emotion for me and if something makes me angry constantly the chances of me becoming addicted. Are subzero.

[@danielvieira5831]

​@@Nyla_Corvinathis the funny part, no one likes anger, but also, no one likes adiction, you do not need to like somenthing to get adicted.

[@denofpigs2575]

​@@Nyla_Corvina Think about how angry people get about politics and KEEP coming back to the same topics that get them pissed off instead of thinking "My mental isn't good I need to stop doing this"

[@XMaster340]

@@denofpigs2575 Politics doesn't really apply here. Because other than video games, bad politics will actually ruin your life (or your offsprings' lives).

[@Nyla_Corvina]

@@danielvieira5831 ...That's not how addiction starts. It starts off as something you enjoy but it can become bad for you over time. That is why people get addicted to gambling. They like the dopamine rush of the possibility to hit the big one so they keep coming back. Drug addicts like the feeling the drug they use gives them so they keep coming back. If you absolutely hate something being addicted to it is not likely at all. But if you enjoy the frustration and anger that comes along with said thing then yeah you might get addicted.

[@Masterho310]

Games that force you to rely on teammates are a real crapshoot. If you are playing with friends they are amazing. If you are playing with randoms it’s hell on earth. Especially competitive multiplayer games like league, overwatch, siege etc.

[@Axterix13]

The hell on earth aspect depends. In a lot of games, playing with some randoms is fun. It varies the game play, lets you make new friends, and so on. Generally speaking, a good time. But it is less efficient than playing with known factors, and so, the more the PITA vs reward factor is tilted toward the PITA side of things, the more you want to play with the right known people, rather than the unknown of strangers.

[@Masterho310]

@@Axterix13 All I'm saying is boot up league of legends and join a solo queue match and stream your game for me to watch. Over the next few hours you are not going to be having a very good time.

[@potatotaxi]

​@@Axterix13 Everyone says that until 6 junglers in a row don't gank their lane while the enemy junglers are consistently top buddies

[@Game-ne5nb]

Left 4 Dead 2 completely stomps this argument

[@buster7797]

​@@Game-ne5nbAs long as you don't play it on versus.

[@Mc_clorinde888.8]

as a splatoon player that rant at the beginning resonates all to well. all why contemplating why the mealie weapon does less damage than a weapon that can hit you across the map

[@kopz77]

Alot of these problems are solved by lower lethality games, games where retreating from a lossing fight is heavily rewarded while dying is heavily punished, your teammate pulls back from a lossing fight and regroups allowing time to heal. That is why generally headshot insta-kills are kinda annoying... you don't get a chance to pull back or react at all if you are unlucky. Long matches with short, low lethality engagements imo would solve a lot of problems, when your team is dying less and also getting less kills but so is the enemy team. the score therefor being based heavily on objective play and damage dealt - damage received.

[@SadToffee]

at the same time lowering the lethality of a game can really put a damper on both the fun and the interactivity of the game. when the end result of a situation is just Nobody dies, fights become near pointless if not completely so. as metagames develop in these types of situations the answer often becomes to not fight to avoid wasting resources. I don't think it's a bad idea to implement things like this, but it's a drastic change to the core of a gameplay system and can take away what players even came to the game to engage with.

[@kopz77]

@@SadToffee that is true but in a well designed low lethality game dying is still very possible it is just more often a bad decision then "oh i peaked a corner and a guy with half my ping shot me before i could even see around it" or in some of the worst cases literal rng death and low lethality doesn't always mean less intense or less fun fights, often it actually means more fun counterplay in said fight, cause it allows peaking to be lower risk letting you reassess a situation and it encourages stacking up with teammates cause you aren't going to get in a situation where you just get full team wiped by one guy unless there is a major fuck up by you or your team... it also allows for those satisfying comebacks from a team on the back foot more often, i wouldn't say every game should adopt this but games that market themselves as tactical shooters should favour this style of gameplay way more than they do. Of course i am basing this off of low lethality singleplayers games i have played compared to high lethality multiplayer cause i rarely encounter any true low lethality multiplayer games. It is definitely a fine balance between "i shot that guy 5 times in the head how is he still alive" and "i shot him in the head once and he didn't die, lucky bastard, let's make the next shot count" which is hard to get right when actually doing game design, but it is definitely possible

[@NKay08]

That's why I am drawn more to games with higher Time To Kill. I just don't have the twitch reflexes (at least in FPS games) to compete in games like Counter-Strike and as I am getting older this will only get worse. Somehow it makes me incredibly furious if I peek around a corner and get killed instantly by a headshot before I have even seen what is around the corner. It just kills my fun. In my opinion higher TTK allows me to express skill in other ways than just pure mechanical abilities and reflexes, but I can make more tactical decisions and learn the actual game.

[@RealLotto]

​@@SadToffeeTF2 is a really good case for this. The lethality of TF2 is much lower than other FPS games with classes generally having much higher HP. Most of the game's weapons also deal mostly burst damage with a noticeable delay between shots. All classes are designed to be able to withstand 2-3 bursts of damage with their base health, so for combat is usually more about outwitting your opponents instead of "whoever twitches their finger first wins", even if you are caught by surprise, you can still outwit your opponent. And since you can still take out your opponent with 2-3 well placed shots, combat still feel smooth and engaging. This is also why Sniper is so hated in the game, because in a game about close to medium combat with burst damages that do not cross the threshold in 1 hit allowing players to reasonably react to their opponent, sniper can just peak a corner and instantly delete another player from the fight before they know it.

[@LateNightHam]

Same thing with Halo. Halos ttk compared to other games is much slower with very few insta kills, sure there's the rocket launcher, sniper, and splatter kills. For the most part Halos combat consists of aim tracking because generally, engaments last multible seconds. I think personally a higher ttk allows for more skill expression, sure you might shoot first but if your opponent is better than you, they still might win the gunfight. I also think sandbox shooters are more fun because you and everyone else start with the same equipment, you have to find the sniper before the enemy does, that and power weapons can lead to engaging team fights because who doesn't want a rocket launcher? That's just my 2 cents tho.

[@theawesomest910]

"No longer participate in the round" This exact reason is why I rarely if ever play any games that no not allow fast respawns. We all die sometimes and when I die I don't want to be stuck as a spectator for the next 5 minutes watching my teammates have the fun I could be having, so I prefer games which allow me in lets say, 12 seconds, to be thrust right back into the action and continue supporting my team, actually having fun and not have a anxious feeling everytime I come close to death. Death being a mild setback or annoyance is way better than a hard brick wall preventing you to continue playing the game.

[@KhezuOnYourScreen]

Actually, Satan isn't the lead developer of League. The game is an act of God. He exists, and wants to watch his creations suffer.

[@KenKaneki2007-9]

Real

[@danielvieira5831]

only a all powerfull perfect being ever could create such a perfectly evil and toxic abomination.

[@biancasawbridgeworth1386]

step 1: be poor step 2: sucks to be you, the only free to play games available are all PvP step 3: I'm considering deleting my character irl

[@balikiller]

just pirate lol

[@Susanmugen]

Many free to play games are single player or cooperative. I'm having a blast in Lord of the rings Online. Most don't pvp in that game

[@coel5276]

warframe is pretty good and free to play, actually

[@candlestorms]

Just buy half life 2 and enjoy the few hundred free mods

[@dylanrice5617]

12:44. The way Splatoon 3 does assists is so genius. If someone makes an assist kill, both players who contributed to the kill get it listed in their kill counts. There is no separate assist stat. You both contributed to the kill, so you both got the kill. It incentivizes team work and doesn’t reward individualism. You both worked for something that benefited the team, so you’re both rewarded. It’s such a simple solution but it makes so much sense

[@vcool122]

Or be like me and play roller. Don't care about kills, my job is to paint the floor.

[@Venomx-nb1jr]

Destiny 2 does this as well. It doesn’t say kills it says defeats. I think valorant would be much better off doing the same thing. Can’t flame your bottom fragger then. Sometimes you can flash 3 people, get killed by blind fire or the 4th guy playing anti flash but then your team swings off you, trades you out and kills everyone else. Guess what, that round ends, your Reyna has 3 kills and you have 0. But who blinded them for Reyna? Exactly

[@Mickymicmike]

This is half true. There is a way to see assists separately, but it's something you'd specifically have to go look for, and by that point the game has moved on.

[@meikahidenori]

Team Fortress 2 has this 100% baked in with the medic class. Assisted kills are your bread & butter. If you're not top of leaderboard by doing it something is off 😅

[@fr34k09]

"it's time to relax" *plays a toxic game/stressful game* me: *just plays relaxing games to relax and plays said games if I want chaos*

[@daboss4318]

Reality is, that most of the time the only way to get fun in a competetive game is to take it from someone else. You can be as timid and kind, all about self improvement, but you WILL meet someone, who will simply decide to make their team, or you specifically, suffer, just in spite. You would be confused at first, but the more and more miserable things like this you will meet, the more your mental will be drained. So most of the players can only have fun from winning or hurting other people, with matchmaking, your winrate will lean towards 50%, so what are they gonna do in other 50% of the games I wonder?

[@catdownthestreet]

And this is the crux of the issue. These games don't encourage friendly competition at all. They just create environments in which players hate each other and can't recognize how miserable the game is making them/that the solution is to switch to a different game or take a break.

[@mastervorn3220]

my friend’s relaxation is attempting to p-rank ultrakill P-2 normally.

[@drmrpumpkin4]

I feel obligated to say, I love how you introduce topics like they are the final boss of a zone, I really love that kind of introductions every time I see them

[@Emerald29]

Theres a good piece of advice I heard in the past: "The only thing that carries over after the match ends is you and only you." Flaming your random teammates wont do jackshit at all, you will never ever meet them again after. All that matters is whether you learn something to improve or not after the game. So either suck it up and focus on winning to be better, or waste your energy and morale getting mad and improve nothing at all by being blinded by your rage.

[@SadToffee]

absolutely.

[@wisestman8080]

Or you can make friends (good players if you care about that), and let the randoms enjoy themselves. Why play multiplayer to not socialize and then complain about randoms, most fun memories in MP games come from the fact that you can play with friends or make new ones.

[@monchete9934]

If every team you're in sucks, then look at the common denominator. Because, if nothing was wrong with you, then the other team is statistically more likely to deal with the same shit

[@onemorescout]

You can’t hard carry in lots of these games so self-improvement has nearly zero impact. An exception: it’s been so liberating playing XDefiant and being able to just 1v6 the enemy team if I’m good enough to do so and being able to blame myself if I can’t.

[@flytelp]

That is not completely true. In high elos you will queue into the same 500 players if you play around the same time each day you play. In low elo, you see the same clinically hard stuck one trick players with millions of mastery points. Those same players are mentally unstable and just run it down when anyone calls them out. *cough* Arclight Icarus#NA1 *cough*

[@blacklight683]

0:01 no i dont think it sound familiar

[@godnaom9110]

Crazy this is your first video. The video was so well made I thought you were a much bigger and more experienced creator, but instead you are a fresh channel. The script, visuals and layout of all ideas are executed perfectly, well done!

[@SadToffee]

I appreciate it! I've been working on my next video and it should be out Soonish, So I hope to provide more quality content for everyone!

[@TainyaGaming]

Something I've learned from Warthunder is that teamates are just enemies in blue

[@aurorialgaming1935]

No matter what, NOTHING will ever compare to having a nice drink and some popcorn as I play a nice story heavy game.

[@corbanbausch9049]

Hell yeah! Playing through the Link’s Awakening remake rn and having a blast

[@SeaHorseOfYoutube]

K/D/A is such an obsolete metric for Mobas at this point in time, they legit have the technology to gage things like lane efficiency, vision contribution, pushing, healing, farming efficiency, total debuffs applied, etc to show a more real 'carry score' and 'support score'.

[@cynicle]

yeh the 'add-on' programs always give more detailed stats and overall scores, I'm surprised Riot haven't experimented more by making this available by default. They're actually removing the career stats page (citing underuse) and referring people to 3rd party website directly (with links) in the latest patch. It's odd as hell to me. Does the career page even take upkeep?

[@austinsgameroom]

i ancidentally started this video along side a boss music theme video, and thought that a angry rant was a part of the music

[@Invisifly2]

Looking at things from a "How could I have done better" rather than a "how could my teammates have done better" perspective is absolutely a way healthier way to approach things. This really helps remove toxicity from your own experience, if nobody else's. But sometimes you really do just have a teammate that is 100% -- absolutely, unequivocally, undeniably, and irrefutably -- an active obstacle to your victory. Such is life.

[@Venomx-nb1jr]

Yes, but once you adopt this you have to get 4 other people to do so as well.

[@kotlolish]

This is something I have adopted long ago in team based games... It backfires HARD. Cause eventually you are playing near perfect to your eyes, where you no longer understand what went wrong. I litterly had games where I was carrying my team and they knew it, then I made one tiny mistake wich lead into my single death that game.. after that we lost. Cause me being dead was enough for the oppenents to win the game. My team still said nicely played and thanks for trying to carry. So it had a good end. But this became a repeat offense. Where I playing near perfect to my standards and catching every mistake my allies made and kept the game relatively in our favor. Our lanes were decently pushed, we lost 1 tower, they lost 2 even though their deaths are 7 (all my kills) vs our 12 deaths (0 of them were mine) And still we lost cause.. eventually the oppenent adapted PURELY to fight me. And eventually they wore me down. At that point I was no longer saying: "What did I do wrong?" Cause... my oppenents were coordinating on JUST ME. They didn't care for my allies... I was the only threat since I kept wiping them 1 vs 5. So insted they ignored my allies every fight to kill me. And even if I brought them low and died.. my allies couldn't kill them even if they only had 10% health left from fighting me. They went down from 100 to 0 without knowing waht to do. At that point my mentality shifted from "What am I doing wrong?" to "How much do I have to compensate for my allies stupidity to even have a chance at winning?" I was still "IMPROVING MYSELF" but in a way that's toxic cause I wasn't playing to make my skills benefit just me.. but making my skills benefit the whole team. And while this sounds good.. it came from a place of malice cause... I was trying to get my allies to do something in the match. The moment I felt like "I couldn't" get us the win. I started playing to help everyone out...cause "my perfection is pointless" if my allies mistakes do not get patched. I have to "PLAY PERFECT" so the match is fair.. cause my allies sure ain't. Wich evolved into.. three play styles: 1: It's me and only me to push to win, forget my allies mistakes cause that will lose my only chance" 2: I am support and gotta keep my dumb ass allies from making mistakes or saving them from mistakes. Non of my deaths are my fault at this point since I am supporting THEIR MISTAKES cause the alternative is running away as a support and then they will yell at me regardless for not helping them. 3: It's my main charater and I can carry this game, I will play perfectly and fill in the gaps of my allies. I just need them to listen to me ONCE to win the game. And the worst part is... this toxicity got reinforced because of 3 being my most play style and thinking.. cause.. when these allies listened to me.. we won easily. If toxicity is bad and never works.. why did these play styles and thinking started giving me the best results? I wasn't winning trying to improve myself and where i went wrong. I started winning a lot more by being a toxic thinker, cause I became game aware more and more... I saw my allies mistakes BEFORE they even happened. Thus I knew what I had to do to avoid it or turn it favorable. All because I treated my allies like dumbasses.

[@ThatRandomDude204]

I remember a guy lambasting me for not having any kills and more deaths even though I was playing Tank ignoring the fact that the Tank I was playing "gifts" his kills to other players (meaning any kill you do is given to another player for buffs) he got lambasted by everyone and the enemy team when they found out at the end lmao

[@vcool122]

I see you play Ganesha in Smite XD

[@ThatRandomDude204]

@@vcool122 Yep, the aftermath was hilarious

[@Why_Blue]

Ive been playing Dota 2 for years and its weird seeing how much better valve is at dealing with toxicity. Dota has a communication score system that will take away your ability to ping things like cooldowns and items of teammates if it gets too low and will mute them in chat completely at the lowest levels. Also has a low priority pool that you'll be put in for griefing. Its not perfect by any means but so much better than what ive seen from when i casually play lol.

[@nathanielh.6711]

It's also very easy to abuse. Returning players start with zero bahavior score. People with high behavior score are not always have positive mental attitude. (you can get pretty good behavior score on turbo mode just pick some disgustingly strong hero and score 21/2/12 or something like that and even if you lose the game people don't really care so... farm the score on turbo) It's very easy to avoid losing behavior score while playing with premade team. (4 is good enough) It's also very easy to lose score when being matched with premade (yes they only have single team report but that's enough. Premades with most likely shift blame to alone player being matched with them. Even if you win the match.) I personally farmed like 1500 behavior score I needed for Max behavior score on turbo. The best farming method Also. Premute everyone that helps alot.

[@ventu7907]

As a new dota player the community is so much better than league

[@Why_Blue]

@@nathanielh.6711 behavior/communication score has been measured for years so returning players would have whatever scores they had previously There's no perfect system that will make players not be toxic especially in a competitive game but the system in place is better at discouraging bad behavior in a more effective way compared to league. Dota has voice chat, character voice lines that can play globally, sprays, taunts, high fives, tipping. Lots of things that can be used to flame but I've seen much more negativity in league and it's all been outside of ranked play.

[@Wafflecombo54]

But where’s the line where competition becomes straight hacking the game? But everyone wants to win 🤷‍♂️

[@The_DGO]

I love how helldivers gets around the ranked problem: they make you beat the previous difficulty just once, and you can choose whichever difficulty suits you.

[@Sorain1]

Now if only they implemented the lesson they'd already learned in the first game in the second: That forcing people to play a higher difficulty to progress was a bad plan.

[@Cepterman]

Same goes for Deep Rock Galactic. Highest freely available difficulty has a bunch of noobs thinking they are fit. Highest Difficulty is locked in the beginning and the teams have way more structure.

[@miguelangelus959]

The issue is thinking competitive games can be played to relax, just because they're games you like. It's in the name, they're not suited for that

[@goranpersson7726]

ye i kinda disdain the type of people who are like that. if you wanted a casual game why go play a competitive one? you're allowed to ofc but if you didnt want competitive dont get mad when that's what you get after specifically going to a competitive game

[@Dusk_Sarsis]

And here we have why I flatly refuse to touch competitive games

[@ElsaChan597]

Pretty much. A lot of people who literally play nothing but Multiplayer Competitive consistently gain the perspective that "games are not fun any more." As if those games are the only ones that exist... It's kind of sad, really.

[@sathalel4084]

@@ElsaChan597 I think needlessly shitting on someone for liking a genre of game you don't is dumb. If someone has an issue with the genre of game they play let them fix it... If suddenly your game genre of choice became unenjoyable to you and you complained about it how would you want others to react? The issue with this video is just that none of the issues he points out are the root or main cause of the problem. The issue with toxicity in competitive games is that they are competitive and human have fragile egos. Especially online.

[@ElsaChan597]

@@sathalel4084 I didn't mean to needlessly shit on people for liking competitive games, my main gripe is people who only play those always lump in gaming as a whole when making their claim that "games suck nowadays" It's like those video essays saying "Modern gaming is dead, old games were better" and then comparing a Ubisoft or Blizard title to Chrono Trigger or Super Mario 64, as if the AAA industry is indicative of games as a whole... Which deviates into another huge mess, because Nintendo games are consistently good, and that's "modern gaming"

[@wiggedsundew917]

"Yo to your right... to your right... TO YOUR RIGHT!" *doesnt look right and instantly dies*

[@entangledatoms7153]

Just a small opinion by me, but I think I find competitive games more fun when the things/people we play as has more/ a lot of HP. Like you don’t immediately die when you get attacked, and you have more time to use your devices(weapons).

[@Mooseshovel]

Competitive Games and their consequences have been a disaster on the Game industry.

[@SadToffee]

-If Kazcynski was a zoomer

[@FattyMcFox]

Ok, i had this one match way back in AvP2, that we just weren't workingman well together. One of the players lost his temper and got on mic to ream us out, then we found out that only 2 of the 5 players on the team, spoke the same language. We had a German man who sounded like someone's grampa, a Spanish speaking little girl, and a Korean who would only whisper. We started to Adjust by miming and motioning with our rifles to make plans. It was difficult, but we started getting better. The only person who didn't take as well to this was the other English speaker. He Started going off on his own and kept getting his head pinned to the wall by the Predator's speargun. We didn't win, not by a longshot, but the game became less frustrating. I also later learned that the Little spanish girl was swearing like a sailor half the time she spoke, but we didn't know that at the time. It is one of the most memorable matches, because we had to go out of our way to make connections.

[@cynicle]

God damn I miss that game. Use to LAN with friends and have so much fun with it. 1 pred, 2-3 aliens and 4-5 shit scared humans running around basically recreating the movies. It was beautiful.

[@meatball5598]

"... But this is my video, and I have the talking stick" I fucking love that, man.

[@zerotohero884]

A little detail about this, actually, more of a problem that i began to see on a game that is't much of a competitive, it was supposed to be a coperative, D&D You see, I Dm a lot, and i've being Dming for almost 15 years, the games are mostly about coperation ,the mage can do things that the Barbarian can't, the Warrior can do things that both of them cannot do and so it goes, each one having their cons and pros, so when they're alone, they might be strong on certain points, but have many weaknesses, while together, working as a team?, things change, they become a unit, dificult to deal with. On more recent times, on my last group, we had a younger lad joining the party, the problem is, the lad was completly obsessed with 'efficiency', two of the players wanted to repeat classes, they both desired to be mages but the Lad made question to call them both out, so the party only had one of each class on the party, also, he talked alot about 'Meta', what i have to call out, there is't a meta on D&D, again, all characters are different, some might have stronger begins, but all classes lack something. The point that i'm getting with this and the relation with this video, I think that this type of comportment, seeing the video, comes a lot of the competitive game desining, were this is clearily expanding to the next generation, at least, for my experience, there will be people that will believe that all games should be as competitive games. Amazing video

[@SadToffee]

Interesting Insight, I honestly have had a similar experience but I never thought about it that way.

[@The-Autistic-Strategist]

4:59 For me, I normally have the opposite reaction. “Oh, this doesn’t appear to be fun. Perhaps I shouldn’t have joined this server, and I’m ruining the fun for everyone else” Perhaps I’m too used to being hated, ostracized, and blamed for everything. When in reality, all I’m guilty of is being too logical, and incapable of perceiving most social cues. Or having poor motor skills, or slow reaction time. But when someone actually gives me a chance, and doesn’t immediately hate me before I have a chance to even attempt communication, I’m often complemented on how kind, considerate, patient, and intelligent, I am. (I’m taking their word for it, as because of how much I’ve been told that I’m an utter failure and waste of space, I tend to have a low opinion of myself. And not just in games, more often IRL) I’ve had some really nice experiences in sea of thieves, and deep rock galactic. Also I tend to be a “success of the group” kind of player. I play support, and care less about personal scoring, I’m a wonderful healer or sniper (more often spotter/sniper especially in the battlefield games) I just not that competitive. Don’t get me wrong, I like to win, but I’m ok with being in the background, I don’t need MVP)

[@mikeware5567]

You're going to think I'm stupid but - what if a game actually exaggerates the praise and haze that people get for their performance? For example, if you opened up the scoreboard and you saw, next to the last players name, "Smells like baboon poo", or saw next to the first players name: "The Big Cheese", it would sort of "lame-ify" the whole concept of praise and haze, reminding players this is a *game* and not to take it too seriously. It also might be fun to hear players wooping it up over being called the Big Cheese, starting up silly conversations rather than e-peen measuring contests Sometimes we need that funhouse mirror to look at ourselves and our actions in and realize that we're kind of acting ridiculously.

[@SadToffee]

I don't hate this idea, but it's a very fine line between the game itself shitting on players and the ideal situation of everybody realizing just how silly it is to yell at each other over funny pixels.

[@mikeware5567]

@@SadToffee Absolutely, the phrasing of the little quips would be SUPER important, and there will still be players butthurt by it no matter what you write. Thanks for the heart!

[@SadToffee]

@@mikeware5567 I only heart the comments I like :)

[@killsode4760]

Oh my god i would love to hear someone extremely excited over topranking and being "the big cheese". you're damn right, that would make it so much more enjoyable.

[@robrick9361]

Cool idea. The game could have a sweat meter for those at the top and a day job checkmark for those at the bottom. Guy who comes last is awarded a badge for having a social life.

[@Sharkamako]

A bit off topic but. I really love how you included the Yo-Kai Watch music in the background. It’s such a criminally under-appreciated game and it feels so good to hear it again in here! 👻⌚️

[@SadToffee]

hard agree.

[@DageLV]

I'm eastern European. Yestarday booted up valorant, joined ranked... Get thrown into dubai servers with insane ping, literally unplayable. I saw corpses shooting, flying guns, I shoot enemy 4 times but turns out he died with the first shot. Then my team started flaming me that I as duelist have 6 kills and they have 8,so I just chatted with enemy team

[@Mona-.-]

Can’t u choose ur own servers lmao

[@hertzwave8001]

@@Mona-.- idk about valorant but for alot of modern multiplayer games that use matchmaking its completely random unless you join off of friends

[@reyalfa18]

​@@Mona-.- yes, yes you can

[@sathalel4084]

@@hertzwave8001 you can in valorant this guy is just an idiot

[@TBDF12]

There really is a problem with a lot of players. Everybody watches competitive matches now days, so everybody takes gunfights like they're a pro instead of working with the team and getting advantages, so they just die and achieve nothing.

[@meikahidenori]

Competitive was great for Team Fortress 2 when it was done outside by the community. When Valve tried to add it into the game it was the worst decision they ever made.

[@StoneyKenobi212]

"This is my video, so I get the talking stick" lmfao

[@CERTAIND00M]

From the guy who says nothing but screams every time he dies, I'd just like to say I'm sorry. I thought I had push-to-talk on.

[@SadToffee]

lmao fair enough

[@FelisImpurrator]

From literally anywhere outside its community, League talk genuinely sounds like a completely different dialect of English. It's incredible.

[@hiush1]

I have some insights on the removal of the scoreboard idea. Darktide (the 4 player vs horde 40k game) doesn't feature the scoreboard that the older tide games had and what you worried about does happen, it did make it easier for underperforming players to just flame away at their team to protect their ego. Plus it also caused a lack of feedback at the end of matches on how you can improve, I installed the mod that readded the scoreboard just so I could get a better look at my own performance metrics. Also I think the lack of that information hampered the skill growth of the playerbase, as an example: I had to start posting screenshots of the modded in scoreboard of our matches just so a friend of mine _that queued with me_ understood that he was shit at the game, he generally had around half of the damage and kills I had and had a poor squad cohesion score (aka he didn't stay with the team and was prone to getting cornered and having to be rescued, which forced everyone else out of position to save his dumbass). Before I showed irrefutable proof he was shit and was getting carried he generally blamed his deaths on the randoms we queued with and didn't improve as a result. A middle ground solution could be to only show the scoreboard after the match is over, so people can't use it as an excuse to dogpile on the bottom fragger but while also giving us useful metrics to improve. It would make it easier for a bottom fragger to be toxic out of frustration, but fair tradeoff I guess.

[@SadToffee]

even a decision like this (which I had considered including) still runs into the issue of not being a strong enough change. the biggest Issue I could foresee is that Timmy from before still gets to flame, but at the end of the match he gets a sort of "comeuppance", and while this might feel good in a "fuck that guy" type of way, he'll still act the same way next game and the rest of the team that had to experience his BS, whilst receiving a moment of catharsis still had to deal with him in the first place.

[@VoidDustMuffin]

@@SadToffee I think there's a couple of ways to help with the scoreboard issue, and I'd like to build off of hiush's example of Darktide as I have more experience with that game than any PvP shooter. To start with I think arbitration away from the classic K/D/A setup would help, but giving players that feedback on how effective their strategies or tactics are is important to helping them improve their skills should they seek it out. Perhaps showing Offensive/Defensive/Support scores for each player would allow for people to see how they are doing relative to teammates while moving away from a singular focus on how many times a player dies or kills an enemy. Then at the end of the match a player is able to see a full breakdown of the metrics that contributed to each of their scores--things like damage dealt/killing blows/DoT dealt for offense, damage taken/damage blocked for defensive, and healing done/CC done/buffs dealt forming support score. With a game like darktide where you can build to buff allies and cc enemies or be a tank taking aggro off your buddies, having the different facets to the score tells everyone that while you're not top fragging, you're helping them top frag even harder, and the end of game breakdown lets me find out just how hard I helped them top frag, or if my aggro tanking was even effective. And while I've never played LoL, from the little I know about it that sort of breakdown of role scores just might help the players that aren't as good at PvP still feel like they're contributing. So we have an alternative now scoreboard and a bunch of nifty little extra numbers, let's make them mean something and give a little positive reinforcement for interacting with the system. A simple multiplier to the rewards earned at the end of a game, dependent on the cumulative score a player got across categories. There will always be a base reward, and the way such a scoring system works would mean they would always earn around 1.1-1.2x that, but if players are good teammates and well rounded they can earn up to, say, 1.5x, giving them a mechanical incentive to engage with the score system you implement instead of continuing to focus on K/D/A. And because the scores are arbitrary numbers and contribute to that number in an equally arbitrary way, you get to decide exactly what actions translate to a larger increase in score and therefore a larger increase in reward. You can make it so that getting the finishing blow on enemies is paramount to gaining rewards. you can make blocking damage the largest breakpoint. you can make how many times you dealt knockback to an enemy the main contributor. But with a mechanical weight to every action, you game players into choosing whatever behavior you want because they're searching for the most efficient method to grinding.

[@cynicle]

@@VoidDustMuffin I like these systems but they take a lot of work on the developer's side to keep 'balanced'. The gains from being a good player would have to be very minimal otherwise 'metas' form and can be enforced by players. For eg, If I could get a 1.5x reward multiplier for having a high score I'd personally then try to game that. Say having a teammate take damage on purpose consistently while I play a healing build with perks/equipment etc optimised for constant slow healing over time. Then I get this huge "damage healed" score because I'm constantly healing my team who are literally shooting themselves in the foot once a minute or whatever so I can power level my account. I've seen much, much, more degenerate strats than that healing example (some totally game warping). If there is incentive, players will abuse the shit out of the game for it (like Helldivers 2 premium currency farming for months before the devs patched out the exploits).

[@JushakF]

It's been roughly a decade since I last played LoL actively, but from what I remember the biggest indicator on what kind of game you're going to get was your own attitude. I have a friend who constantly complained about his games. Watching his games, he was throwing a lot of passive-aggressive stuff in chat. Guess what, he got a LOT of toxic games. I never liked playing solo much, but when I did, I tried to stay positive in chat. Turns out helped. I never had anywhere near the toxicity that a lot of my friends who were either silent or anywhere from passive-aggressive to toxic in chat. Turns out many of those people you mentioned that are just having a bad day, bad streak etc. aren't as quick to jump to flaming when they're reminded that their team isn't purposefully out to get them or triggering them when they're already frustrated. It's obviously not perfect solution and can get a bit tiring (hence I never liked solo queue that much), but I feel a LOT of players bring the toxicity they see with them to the game.