THIS is what makes Japanese Milk Bread Light as a CLOUD - 217

A Tangzhong is headsmackingly obviously EXCELLENT for our bread dough. Total Genious.
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[@mikewurlitzer5217]

Tangzhong has NEVER failed, for me, to deliver on it's claimed benefits. I've also used Yudane, similar but with boiling water added to the flour [same percentages]. Amazing how Yudane removes much of the bran's bitter flavor of fresh milled Whole Wheat and makes for a very nice soft, not dense, WW bread.

[@OrlaQuirk]

Thank you. I was wondering about Whole Wheat bread.

[@KnackFarmer-theanswerismeat]

I'll do a portion of ingredients 'yudane' method when I'm making brioche - takes it up a notch!

[@ogr8bearded175]

Be aware yudane should be a 1 to 1 ratio and not 1 to 5 like tangzhong. It should also be cooled at least 2 hours in the refrigerator, better overnight, to develop flavour.@@KnackFarmer-theanswerismeat

[@KnackFarmer-theanswerismeat]

@@ogr8bearded175 Indeed. I'm aware of the differences, good to highlight these for others.

[@sherrymiller804]

New baker, could I have a recipe for Yudane bread. I’ve never heard of Yudane or Tangzhong. I use fresh milled grains. I like Kamut but I have spelt, Einkorn, whole wheat berries

[@cory2300]

Finally someone who actually goes over how to apply this method to other recipes, giving the total percentage. I always struggled and avoid this because all that is ever listed online is the recipe in its entirety.

[@RuthSeltzer]

I make a tangzhong with water instead of milk for challah. Makes the challah super soft! Thanks for explaining this so well Jack! Love your videos.

[@deba2519]

I’ve been making Tangzhong sourdough bread for the last year or so, and it has been a game changer. No more breaking teeth on my bread! I use it to get soft sourdough cinnamon rolls as well.

[@pippawood1460]

Hey Jack....this truly is genius. I use my baking as therapy to help me ground myself through the ups and downs of life. I recently lost my best friend who passed away on Sunday. We had plans to bake together but he never made it so I baked this in his memory ... it was lovely to think of him as I kneaded☺️ and it tastes so sweet and soft. By the way when I have a soft dough like this I sit in my conservatory with my bowl on my lap and knead it in there with my Bake with Jack scraper. So relaxing and cathartic at the same time!! Xxx

[@mimmociaccio5470]

Thanks Jack i did not there was such bread.

[@JoannaSelvan]

I made this recipe yesterday but it is extremely sweet. Nothing like milk bread from asian grocery stores. I will dial down on sugar next time I make it.

[@sabahbubbler]

I wanna give a shout out to Seraphine Lishe on her mom's channel, Novita Listyani for an absolute mad gal breakdown on Yudane/Tang Zhong. Absolutely underrated channel. She talks a lot about ratio of water to flour of Yudane/Tang zhong, pros and cons of it. I myself wouldn't recommend 5:1 ratio

[@cindyburnes8226]

This right here. Novita Listyani has a fantastic video (and clearly researched this issue). After watching that, I now "understand" the Yudane/Tangzhong method. I used it in a sandwich loaf recipe and made the best bread EVER. Soft and delicious. I didn't know that home baking could produce such a cloud.

[@trishthehomesteader9873]

Thank you Jack!🙂 This kind of freaked me out a bit because tangzhong is almost what we used to make as homemade glue. 😂 Oddly, two days ago, I was watching other KZbinrs explain this. Nobody explains it as well as you do, Jack! ♡ Blessings always! 💜

[@nancybyrd2221]

I've made the Japanese milk bread several times. There is nothing like it! So glad you're spreading the word! I'm thinking it would be a good dough to use for your very awesome, addictive, fabulous cinnamon rolls! Yeah?

[@linneapetersson9520]

My favorite recipie for cinnamon buns uses tangzhong and is a 3 day affair. Day 1 make dough, batch proof in fridge overnight day 2, shape the buns, proof in fridge overnight, day 3 bake 😁

[@LesaBear612]

I love your enthusiasm! I’m anxious to try this.

[@gigidtx]

Sounds delish! Thanks 😊

[@suemerritt1679]

Love this! Thank you... Can't wait to try it! 🥰👍

[@MrDexcars]

Thanks Jack nice to see you back on form and all well this looks like an interesting recipe I’ll give it a go

[@konrai1972]

This is a super useful tip thanks

[@dreadnaught2406]

Greatly appreciated Jack! I was just happened to have some new flours to test out when I spotted this on my queue.

[@lievermorgen]

Good one Jack, Thank you!

[@pauldean9839]

Another awesome and informative tutorial Jack, thank you. I plan to incorporate that method into my next sourdough bake - pad and pencil at the ready for calculation and notes. 👍🏻

[@jvallas]

I make tangzhong (milk bread) now and again, but this video was still really useful because of all the explaining you do, and the percentages at the end so I can quit guessing at incorporating the tangzhong into other breads! Thanks so much!

[@gavinindar5021]

Thanks for the educational video...keep it up brother!

[@saburahma]

Wow thanks for the wonderfully clear explanation! I’ve always wondered how tanzgong worked I use it for my burger buns, you’re gifted that way!

[@zerozerotwo5543]

Yay! Your explanation about "Yudane湯種” is perfect! Thank you for educating us. Like your hair style!

[@chopsddy3]

Thanks again Jack. 👍 I’ve never seen anyone use it in sheet form. My understanding is increased. BTW, A few days ago, I found myself with nothing but my empty starter jar . I miscalculated, made bread, (I was kinda sick and out of it , but I needed some bread) and ended up with nothing but the dirty jar . I put some rye flour and water in the dirty jar and it boiled up and active in a few hours . 👍 Thanks so much for that info. It works.

[@andywilkinsonhull]

Just slicing a loaf that I baked 2 days ago. Amazingly it's still soft. Brilliant recipe. I'll be baking it again!

[@Cbbq]

Very timely. Will start this using this method and hopefully migrate it over to my sourdough. Greetings from Canada

[@kylemain4314]

Thanks Jack!

[@ericegli2738]

I look forward to trying this. I've heard of it for a while. Now you have me the background information, I think it worthwhile! Thanks.

[@gaylehobbs2001]

I have always been cautious of baking bread , but I made this and not only worked but looks just like yours !❤ And soooo soft Love Love Love

[@rsims42]

Thanks

[@graciekinkopf2007]

I've used Tangzhong in a past recipe and the buns were beyond soft. BUT armed with this new information and how to calculate tangzhong into any recipe, I can't wait to bake again tomorrow! Thank you, Jack!

[@Gnilesington]

Man, this video is spot on!

[@lynbowdell1823]

My goodness Jack, following you for 3years now and still learning.Thank you. By the way how do you do it you never age.

[@svi97]

Shall make because Bake with Jack ^.^

[@nancyshaaban1776]

Thank you Jack. Your videos are super amazing, you’re the only baker i’ve come across who teaches “the underlying principle”, so that we could really gain the knowledge and true skill required. I’ve struggles to no end with baking, untill I came across your channel. Your videos were truly an inspiration! So جزاك الله خيراً كثيراً🌷

[@loreleibrewer3803]

You smacking the ingredients out the window earned a like and a subscribe. Thank you for the informative and greatly enjoyable video!

[@peterbradney9159]

Bertinet used a proper white roux to add softness to the dough, in the army we did a cheat version called a Liverpool roux mixing a water flour slurry and adding directly to the hot liquid to thicken it like cornflour mix. Just adding flour could be problematic and go lumpy

[@my_stash]

Love tangzhong..Used it on brioche buns and it would turn up soft and fluffy.. I used to make a bigger batch of it and store it on the chiller for days..

[@dopapier]

I like your style. You seem like a cheeky chappy but your presentation is clear, very well organised and intelligent. Great stuff!

[@ronmcc100]

Great episode! Been wondering if you'd ever do anything about a Tang Tzong (?).

[@charleskings-road2087]

Hi Jack, this looks great, I am trying this out now, it is cooling while I wright this, though I must confess I wont be hand kneading my dough this time it will be a bread machine, but it should work. Hopefully the wife will like it this time instead of that stuff that comes from the shops certainly not my choice.

[@dkexp725]

A good reminder for me to get back over to HBC! Thank you for the enticement. I’ve been taking a break due to hot weather.

[@Bakewithjack]

Come on down DK :-) Try the Hazelnut butter :-)

[@user-kp6rp1fm1b]

Glad I bought an actual scale instead of measuring cups

[@Jim181059]

Thanks for the video Jack! I used this for my usual weekend buns . I used the same amount of dry ingredients with just extra water for the tangzhong. 5% of my flour was 25g so added that to 125g water, 150g in all. The tangzhong took no more than a couple of minutes, even with gentle heat, but I weighed what came out and it was only 125g!. As it was early, I thought I may have mis-weighed something so I did it again - cooking it for maybe just a minute where it was 2 or 3 before, and this time was left with 130g. My (long winded) question is; is this the amount that I should use in my recipe, or should it be the original 150g? As I had done two lots I made it up to 150g anyway and used that. The dough was very soft - a lot more so than it usually is - but manageable. The buns were great. Held the same shape as usual but were lovely and fluffy inside. I will definitely be using this method again!

[@gigi3242]

similar to a choux and a roux? very versatile, thanks for the info.

[@sharonpults1177]

Hello Jack!! After watching this video I searched for a hamburger bun recipe using this method. They turned out wonderful in taste and texture. Super soft. Here is my question for you. This recipe used regular all purpose flour. Will this tangzhong work for French bread if I use bread flour? I so enjoy your videos and tips for all of us. I'm happy to see your face is healed.

[@jklphoto]

Thank you Jack for continuing to release new content on KZbin..."Every Single Thursday" :-) Struggling to find a similar loaf pan to the one used here. All of our American companies like USA Pan, sell 1, 1.25 and 2 lb. tins, but they have slanted sides and are more squat than yours. And the Pullman pans are straight sides. What to do?

[@msinglinksgirl]

Maybe I missed it, but where/when did you add the Tangzhong to the dough. Of, course, I’m assuming you added it along with all the other ingredients, but I missed actually seeing it go in. One second it was on the side still in the plate, and the next second the plate was gone! Poof! Vanished! I’m a visual learner, so I backed up the video 3 times - maybe I had missed the addition. Hmmm… So glad to hear that it was a skateboard accident and not something like a brawl, or a car accident, or a tumble down subway stairs. But do be careful! The older you get, the more it hurts and the longer it takes to heal. Also, it will come back to haunt you years from now, like in your 50s and 60s. Believe me; I know. I’ve been a faithful follower of Bake with Jack almost from the beginning. Love everything you do. So helpful, so informative, so warm and friendly. God bless, young man, you and your family.

[@charleskings-road2087]

Seasonal greeting Jack, a follow up on my last comment. Well I was very impressed with the results, my bread machine (sorry about the bad language) turned out with this technique, a loaf that was soft moist and that stayed that way longer than ever before. I will be using this method on a regular basis and may be one day I will start to hand mixing my dough to follow the standards that you have taught me. Love the way your videos and the way that you deliver the content, always keeping one's interest :)

[@ggusta1]

1st off, i've used tangzhong successfully in several recipes prior to this one and this one today came out brilliantly, yes I followed this to the T today, only problem (well, I ran into 2 problems) but the two tins I have were too large for the ingredients so the loaves were a tad small. so I multiplied the recipe by 1.25. which yield an egg of 62.5 grams which I rounded up to 100g/2 eggs so I had to increase the flour from 712 to 762g (800g - 38g for the tangzhong) to keep hydration at 75%. I'll try that tomorrow. I'm still a novice, but today's results really came out well even with a couple problems. overcoming problems and still getting good results goes a long way to boosting confidence.

[@ronniesodhi2070]

A few notes on your bakers percentage. First, your Tangzhong does not add the exact amount of liquid you put into it. It is after all heated and cooled, so a bit of liquid will evaporate (you could test this, just weigh your cooled tangzhong to see how much has evaporated (it will all be water). Second, your Tangzhong contains fat, which is not considered a liquid (in terms of bakers percentages), and should thusly be subtracted. Third, your egg is no where near full liquid. Particularly the egg yolk is mostly fat, which - once again - is not considered a liquid. I'd wager your real hydration would be closer to 68-70 % taking the above into consideration. (All that being said, this is a great video, and I'm sure the knowledge shared will help someone!)

[@jvallas]

I'll still be ok, because I tend to add milk/water till it feels right to me! Highly unscientific, but it generally works out fine. 🥴

[@Ange_de_la_Musique]

I was about to say the same thing about hydration of the liquid ingredients. As far as I know, whole egg contains about 75-76% hydration, milk’s about 85-90% hydration & butter’s about 16-17% hydration

[@FlavourFool]

Yeah, probably about right. The difference it makes in handling though means you might well be able to get up to 75%. I definitely want to try this with only water.

[@lellab.8179]

You saved me from writig all of this. 😊

[@charlenecutler1678]

If you want to get real technical about hydration rates you also need to factor in the relative humidity and how it has affected the flour component. Grains/seeds store best at around 12%humidity, but flour stored in a home may vary greatly depending on relative humidity and how airtight the storage container is. Which is why a lot of older at-home bakers mixed their bread by 'feel'. At the ragged, starting to knead stage, flour would be added to the overhydrated dough til it 'feels right'. Hard to calculate exact hydration from that! Lol! But I learned to make bread in a dry prairie kitchen over 55 years ago...

[@medihakaya4593]

Excellent info. I have always wanted to know hydration ratio. Thank you

[@Bakewithjack]

You're Welcome :-)

[@mimmociaccio5470]

I often make a pastabrioche a sicilian semy sweet bread .

[@joannpelas5101]

Since I watched your video on the fundamentals of bread baking, all I needed was the recipe. Now it's all I make. Now if I could only tackle sour dough.....

[@crisjenness274]

I used Tangzhong when I make cinnamon rolls too. It makes the rolls so soft and moist.

[@Bakewithjack]

NICE work! cris :-)

[@rachelabel1262]

Oooooo, I want to try this today! Do you just add some cinnamon and sugar before you roll up your bread into a sausage?

[@ggusta1]

do you have a video on how to freeze, thaw and bake dough that has been frozen?

[@jimbonsf]

It's called a roux and it definitely makes the bread yummy soft.

[@Bakewithjack]

I've heard people call it a water roux, but it feels wrong to me. In my head a roux is flour and fat :-)

[@live_long_and_prosper]

Its the same as what people do in foam production to increase the resilience, sponginess. They introduce shorter molecules that can hold higher amounts of water. That affects usually the elongation and tear strength.

[@robjohnson8522]

So add old bechamel into dough! :) ;) I am suprised the Japanese did this instead of the French!

[@kookiemuncher257]

I think the chinese did it first, i’ve seen this on chinese bread recipes as well. Also the name sounds chinese.

[@maxineb9598]

​@@kookiemuncher257It's the "zh" that makes it seem more Chinese but "zh" is pronounced as "j" in China.

[@NZtechfreak]

The Chinese tangzhong came from Japanese Yudane (which also gelatinises flour, but instead by adding boiling water directly to flour).

[@charleskings-road2087]

Hi Jack, could you do a similar video using or comparing the Yudane method, very similar but without the cooking :)

[@arsulaksono881]

Great explanation… would this work with sourdough bread do you think ?

[@kmcte5]

I would like to see the tangzhong sheet you have incorporated into your bread mixture. I’ve made the paste before but am very curious about how this incorporates. Is there a special technique or more kneading involved? Please share

[@kuroinokitsune]

Time to try making this thing again ^-^'

[@kmy6217]

My seven yr old was so excited to make these. He’s slowly getting the hang of kneading. We’re at the second rise stage, so I’ll Insta post our success. ❤

[@zerozerotwo5543]

( from Japanese bread making web site) The best way to freeze milk bread is to slice (for round shaped one, separate each ball) →Wrap each slice (or ball) with a plastic wrap or aluminum foil→freeze in an air tight container or bag →Defrost either (1) in a refrigerator for overnight or (2) directly place a frozen slice in a toaster oven and toast at 200℃(400F) for 4〜5 min.

[@hjanetharper6805]

Can you work with fresh milled flour?

[@donaldduck9214]

Ευχαριστούμε!

[@gilbertmuirhead9035]

So as I normally make white bread at 75% hydration does this mean that I could now go for 85%?

[@brunoferoleto]

That's a real game changer. Unfortunately the flours we have here in Brazil are so weak that I have to take it to the hospital 🤣. Kidding aside the result was amazing. Thank you, sir.

[@smarouchoc7300]

So, I had a head smack moment watching this. I have a LOT of sourdough starter in my fridge. It is always at 100% hydration. So, I measured out 60 g of well mixed starter, added 45 grams of water, and 75 grams of milk, cooked as described in the video. It it currently cooling, and it's already 9 at night, so I'll probably bake with it in the morning. If this works out, seems like a great way to use up some extra starter 😁

[@charmcrochet6076]

Hi jack ! Is strong white bread flour is same as all purpose flour. If I use all purpose flour will I get the same results.

[@OrlaQuirk]

Strong white flour (bread flour in the US) is 12% protein or higher. All-purpose flour is 9-10% protein, up to just under 12%. The cheapest all-purpose supermarket flour I can find is 9% protein, whereas King Arthur brand All-purpose flour is 11.8% protein. If you happen to have a container of vital wheat gluten in your pantry, a little arithmetic will tell you how many grams of gluten to use in place of that much AP flour, to make it bread flour/strong flour.

[@mere_mort4l]

Do we need to account for the evaporation when you're stirring the flour with milk and water?

[@KR_SinSZ]

Hi Jack. Thanks for the recipe. I've made Japanese milk bread a few times before but it called for a "yudane" (flour scalded with hot water/milk then mixed into a paste, instead of cooking it) instead of a "tangzhong" like you have. So I'm wondering if you could do a video showing if there is a significant difference making milk bread between using "yudane" or "tangzhong".

[@NZtechfreak]

No, there isn't a significant difference. See videos comparing by Chainbaker and crazy scientific deep dives on the Novita Listyani channels for all you ever needed to know and more.

[@davidbrown3309]

Jack, like many of the respondents here, I'm a big fan when it comes to softening a dough using Tanzhong. Thanks for doing this video. If I'm not mistaken, you assume that your 125g Tanzhong adds 100g of water and 25g of flour to the recipe. Is this correct? It seems to me this assumption misstates the hydration because the Tanzhong has transformed flour and water into an ingredient with different (unique) characteristics.

[@gigidtx]

Just ordered the caster sugar; seems so much lighter and won't ruin my diet!

[@dominiccrimmings6925]

Caster sugar, FYI, is EXACTLY the same as granulated sugar but just less coarse so easier to incorporate into mixes - it contains the same calories etc etc etc. It's the same stuff, just finer.

[@caveymon]

Hey Jack, love this recipe! The idea is not new indeed, seen it used in a lot of chinese bao recipes (as in, it is compulsory to get those fluffy buns for char siu bao :D). Anyways, been wondering now: would this be applicable to a sourdoughloaf too? Swap out parts of the liquid and flour with this tangzhong? Asking you, so I don't have to experiment with it :D

[@wensuo7845]

How did you come up with the 30g of flour for the Tangzhong? Is it a percentage of the recipe you are going to use?

[@tanchau9394]

Hi yall, I keep trying to make the tangzhong into the rubber gelatinous as soon in the video and I haven't been get any results, it turns into the same mash potato consistency it was before. I did more tests with cooking it for longer until it started making a flaky skin around the pan or putting it in the fridge instead. Do you guys have any advice for me like should I cook at a lower temp or spread the tangzhong thinner on my plate?

[@giselsilva]

I would love to try this recipe but when do you add the tangzhong?

[@Bakewithjack]

With all the other ingredients when you mix the dough :-) HAVE FUN

[@giselsilva]

@@Bakewithjack thank you! I hope all is well and I also hope to join the club soon 😍

[@iluminameluna]

There's a young woman who has a PhD in dough. No joke. Here's her explanation as to why the 1:4 flour to water ratio is better for your bread. Just from my own experience, she's right. I started with the 5 times as much water as flour ratio too, but would get inconsistent results depending on how much humidity there was in the environs. With the lower water to flour ratio, the ambient humidity had less of an impact, for me. It might not be the same for anyone else. 👀 Happy baking, everyone! Peace ✌️ 🎉 Her YT channel: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l2OlmZhna9Cpeassi=nnkrjdgQAbHcQJEA

[@rosemary20001]

Just add whatever liquid you are using to the tanzhong in the pot to cool it, no need to dry it!

[@criswilson1140]

Thank you for doing the math.

[@uncoeur]

Could do a dry yeast to levain conversion.

[@wendylittleh3209]

I made this bread the other day came out beautiful but the only difference was the recipe called for all purpose flour. What difference would bread flour make??? Thank you

[@alf3553]

That sure seems like a lot of yeast, total weight 1207 grams using 15 grams of yeast. The rise was 2 hours each even with that much. Yes I made this & they were fantastic.

[@luzsamayoa2300]

Can i use it in a whole wheat 100% bread ?????

[@Peterthefatstormtrooper]

chef in my country finding strong bread flour /regular bread flour is considered fancy thing thats why costly (from a home bakers point of view) can we add extra gluten powder(is cheaper than getting the flour dont know the logic behind it being cheap) to ap flour to get the strong bread flour characteristics ? like for example ap flour has 9% gluten i take 100 grams ap and add 3gram gluten powder to make it a 12% gluten dough?

[@mangezable]

Interesting! Been trying to work out how it’s done for a long time. Will give it a try now 😊

[@pauldean5050]

Hi Jack - could I ask a quick question please - if I follow your % principles, could this potentially work in a donut recipe ? I'm thinking KRISPY KREMES texture....

[@NZtechfreak]

Yes, tangzhong and yudane methods work for donuts too.

[@tonimckinstry261]

Could this dough be used for cinnamon rolls?

[@amyli8636]

Is “fresh yeast” means sourdough starter instead of yeast?

[@dominiccrimmings6925]

I've a quick question, as it wasn't mentioned in the video: Can you make the milk/water/flour bit up to the point where it's completely cooled but instead of tearing etc you either put in the fridge or even freeze it? It would be handy to know if you can fridge / freeze it and for how long - cos I could make a larger batch as I have a very big frying pan, reckon I could make x4 and then cool on plates etc. Cheers Jack, another great vid. PS. I've applied for Masterchef 2024 and hope to use one or two of your quicker bread recipes in some of my dishes - if I do I will most certainly try and give you a shoutout on the telly box 🙂

[@Bakewithjack]

Nice one! GOOD LUCK! Don;t see why you couldn't freeze it :-)

[@jimkoss3318]

Fwiw, I use a tangzong of 2:1 water to flour with 10% of the total flour. From there I make variations. My suggestion is from kzbin.info/www/bejne/p5WyeaCaibmmaJY.

[@my_stash]

Freezing it might lengthen its life I think, probably a great idea .I've used tangzhong to make buns almost everyday. What I would normally do is make a triple batch of tangzhong (about 3 batches for 3 days worth of buns) and put it on the chiller .. It would last for about 3 to 5 days max.. However, when its color started to darken, I wont use it anymore and make a new batch .

[@shaggyrandy1264]

Like using leftovers?

[@rpastore5429]

Would adding a Tangzhong work with a basic bread recipe (water, flour, yeast, salt - adjusting the amounts of flour & water) or only with an enriched bread recipe?

[@NZtechfreak]

Works for non-enriched bread also.

[@karenclaud4616]

Would you mind going over the Chinese method? I think it’s called yudane?

[@NZtechfreak]

Yudane is Japanese, tangzhong is Chinese (and was derived from Yudane). I've used tangzhong extensively in the past, but after watching videos from Chainbaker and Novita Listyani now tend to use Yudane method since it's easier and produces the same results.

[@cookiegriffith7556]

Do you think cooked rice could be blended into Tangzhong??

[@orzellezro]

70 gms of castor sugar ? Is that to feed the yeast or does it create a sweet loaf?

[@Faavtro]

Oddly enough, last week I was just having a go at this for the second time, and despite the first being a success, the second attempt... did not want to cooperate. Perhaps this video will be my salvation? 😅

[@Bakewithjack]

Good luck :-)

[@user-mb1rc6ny5m]

But doesn't the water evaporate during cooking of the Tangzhong? I feel like the hydration rate is not that high then.

[@nkaujmoobleeg]

😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍

[@454Casull]

The Japanese call it yukone (yoo-koh-neh, neh as in “met”) which I think would be more contextually correct when talking about Japanese milk bread. Tangzhong is Chinese (and may or may not have been invented by them first). Also, the “zh” has a particular pronunciation which is not the same as a standard “z” in English.