This jet is a pain to play | Su27Sm | Warthunder

The F4-F ICE is next up!
I dont think is explained it well, but the Su27sm is pretty much held back by the R77 and its rare to find a situation that its actually effective in, but its hard to say what needs to be done to make better.

[@GeneralArmchair]

You were using the plane wrong, but at the end of the day the Su27SM doesn't do ANYTHING better than its NATO counterparts. Nothing at all. Right now NATO went from having the advantage in every metric except BVR missile (in a meta where it didn't matter because of strong multipathing), to them doing literally everything better. Your mistake was trying to climb to altitude and employ BVR tactics. It is unwise for the Su-27SM to do that for a number of reasons. The first is that you're simply outranged by a tremendous degree. Everyone who isn't using spamraams is outranged to the point where it isn't even fair. The second problem is target acquisition capability. You struggled to find the words to articulate the issue but noticed that you had trouble locking targets. The reason why is because the Su-27SM's radar is atrociously subpar for the tier. It is a challenge to acquire locks in TWS when the radar's refresh rate is so subpar and you can't even narrow the search pattern. The third problem that you didn't even touch on is datalink bandwidth. While NATO can babysit six to eight missiles in the air with TWS, you can guide two. You can't even boast a superior supply of Fox-3s since the F-15 can carry eight to your six. So basically it is foolish to even attempt BVR since they're better at you in BVR in every conceivable metric that matters. Instead you need to hug the deck and try to terrain mask your into WVR combat. Then fling R-77's at targets within pitbull range while always doing your best to be prepared to retreat back behind a mountain or into a canyon. You don't even really have the advantage here because NATO enjoys 20km ACM mode while Russia is handicapped by 10km ACM, but at least the playing field is more level. My advice for trying to acquire locks within that ~10-20km window is to either use PD SRC mode because it refreshes faster than TWS, or to try to first acquire the target via HMD IRST before swapping back over to radar for the missile launch. This levels the playing field a lot, but it's still an uphill fight since the Su-27's flight model is generally inferior to NATO opposition in a close range dogfight. But it's the difference between fighting with one hand tied behind your back vs just being tied to a post in front of a firing squad. I suppose the ONE field where you can do something that NATO can't is that you have the R-27ET. It's still useful in its niche but it is far from a meta defining missile. As for what can make things better: For one I can see BRs shifting, but believe it or not thunderskill suggests that the average american main is managing to faceplant with worse win rates than any other nation (bomber F-15s I bet). Introduction of the R-77-1 seems like an obvious addition in the near future to extend the range of the 77. Newer flanker variants will eventually help close the performance gap with the radar's shortcomings. MAAAAYBE the R-37 might be introduced as a higher BR version of the phoenix as an ultra-long range bomber killer than any fighter worth his salt should have no difficulty evading, but I'm not holding my breath on that one. I think they'd need to give us the Su-25 or Mig-31 for that.

[@farmatt6737]

Hey man, nice video, really goes to show how terribly one sided AMRAAM's are at the moment, the AIM 120 is just so much better than the R77. I really hope they do some things to balance them out, knowing Gaijin though, they'll likely do something that will only make things worse. Ill definitely be around to see the F4F video, good luck out there!

[@Arnkingable]

Remember the last months bevore the aim 120 ......the game was unplayable because of the su and ita r27...f16c was completely useless with the aim7m crap. Now the f16c ist one of the best planes. I hope gajin dosen't do anything 😂

[@farmatt6737]

@@Arnkingable , just because one missile is overpowered for a while dose not mean they should add another to the game. Russia having a quite strong missile dose not justify the addition of even stronger missiles to the US. I just want the game to be balanced, I'll always oppose the stance of "well they had a 'OP' Missile for a long time, now its our turn", its that mentality that destroys the game further. DO NOT forget that the counter play towards the R27 was much easier than that of the AIM120. This was due to the multipathing change which was added alongside the AIM120, which made flying on the deck borderline useless when countering radar missiles. Not to mention the fact that the AMRAAM capable aircraft are simply able to fly away from you after launching the missile, making hitting your opponent next to impossible when you don't have AMRAAM's. the Aim120 and the R27 meta aren't even comparable, especially when considering that some planes don't even have AMRAAM's, yet they still have to fight them despite being at a total disadvantage.

[@Arnkingable]

@@farmatt6737 ok to be honest i have to admit that i was just very pissed because of the r27 and you are right. Switching from meta to meta does not make sense and this ruins the game . So i agree on the multipathing change too. You are right the best thing is when the game is balanced. There are indeed some missiles which are better than others. But when one missile ist significant better its not good. Changed my mind because of your arguments 👍

[@farmatt6737]

@@Arnkingable Fair enough, as always have a wonderful day.

[@nomikomaryu5049]

​@@farmatt6737Okay but you can see his point right? That it's all of a sudden a problem when Russians don't have an op missile, however if they do have an op missile then it's okay.

[@alolanrichu1167]

Honestly, with the way the R-77's turn its not worth using them at range. They make amazing dogfighting missiles though with HMD

[@D00MerJohn]

You really have to use the HDN mode to go past 50 km with the Russian Radars. Then it just randomly stops detecting people if they fly a little bit offset. I've had nothing but bad luck trying to get the HMS to radar lock people as well. The ACM "ladder" mode is really hit or miss. This is the first patch where I really feel like the Russians suffer in the electronics department.

[@agidotexe7167]

No way the r77 will hit anything at 40+ km shot from mach1.1 also u would benefit from being higher up, 15k aint nearly enough, launch from 30k

[@rooostam2112]

I've seen enough after 2 min of video that u launch mid range missile from 40km ok bro😂

[@AstroGamer_da_real]

:)

[@MeanHereAT]

Bruh what am i watching?🤨

[@MeanHereAT]

Also the reason you're not seeing targets beyond 50Km is because you're not using PD HDN to launch then you use TWS.

[@narutofanz4]

So this is what top tier dog fights look like, this game sucks lmfao

[@adrian_ricky619]

Play sim way better

[@malithaw]

Skill issue dude. Use it for what it is which is a highly manuerable short to medium range missile. You obviously cant do BVR this thing. Just fly low to the ground fire these at incoming enemy mfs within 10km. Basically a radar R73 with a better range.

[@GeneralArmchair]

The AIM-120 is more maneuverable in game than the R-77. It is both the superior BVR sniper and closer range brawler missile.

[@SirSpamGaming]

even at 10km it misses

[@SalSal-om1en]

Buddy the trees are higher then the multi-path range

[@kerotomas1]

The R27ER dominated for 1,5 years. Time for something not russian to shine too….

[@TheHarbinger827]

Ideally a tech tree shouldnt have to suffer just so another can be good. In a perfect world both would have their strengths and weaknesses.

[@rixyl7475]

@@TheHarbinger827 Much like the R27ER and AIM7M, US could lock Soviets first so the extra range wasn't as big as people though. As someone that plays Both US and Russia I can actively say the AIM7M wasn't too far off the R27, the R77 is. I can use both F16ADF and Mig 29 and both are fun in their own ways. I can't say the same about the Su27SM, it's MUCH worse than what "the us had to deal with."

[@user-jy6cn3jy8g]

@@rixyl7475also 100m MP neutralized the gap between ER’s and 7M/F’s and while soviet planes technically had an advantage in BVR (again, meant literally nothing with 100m MP) - NATO absolutely slammed any soviet plane in VWR. In sim situation was even worse cause radars and RWR’s on these planes are simply the worst at 11.3+ br, the only exception is the 29SMT but… it’s 29SMT. Anyway, these planes at least had an advantage in BVR, rn these planes suck in VWR cause of awful FM’s and short range missiles that work only in rear aspect (otherwise getting one-flared), and suck in BVR even more cause of radars with update rates = 1 million years and that have only 50km range (technically 75, but it is in HDN modes that are bugged af) and missiles that have less energy and less energy retention than the R-24R and now we don’t have this 100m “free zone” to neutralise the gap between 77’s and 120’s which is HUGE The only thing in RB that saves the 27SM/J-11A from being completely useless is 12v12/16v16 and the only thing in SB that saves these planes is the fact that blue side mains just have no clue what they’re doing for some reasons (I mean there’re good players who actually know how to play these jets and because of that they have 4+K/D in any F-16/15/14, JAS39 or M2K/M4K but most players are just unbelievably bad)

[@thekirby53]

skill issue

[@TheHarbinger827]

wow, nice comment, very good criticism

[@thisbetterwork5]

Can’t reason with people who are coping