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#Yugioh #YugiohTcg #masterduel

[@JGdouble2]

"Judges this man shuffled his hand, without informing before hand."

[@grizzlybear6377]

Say hand again

[@TieflingKumasi]

Hand

[@doomoftheend]

this is getting out of hand

[@ChosenInterval]

Gotta hand it to Konami here for this ngl

[@TieflingKumasi]

A round of applause for all these puns

[@mojokawayo5619]

I remember someone tried this at a table next to me as a kid. Judges were called and they told him he miss-timed his activation and that technically he wouldnt be able to activate the card since it was already past the draw. He argued with them, called them some names, was promptly removed from the tournament and told not to come back to the LGS.

[@PolishSasquatch]

That's how this should've been resolved.

[@D-vb]

Deserved

[@tareqal-hasan4975]

​@@PolishSasquatchit's not that simple because it can happen where your opponent draws and immediately shuffles their hand when you're trying to activate the card, would be unfair to call that mistiming which is why they had to make that rule

[@Fart5353]

​@@PolishSasquatch risk getting sued 😂?

[@OGEdger]

​@@tareqal-hasan4975 Skill issue, honestly.

[@NolChannel1]

This happened once. The third round the judges got called for the same issue, they kicked the idiot out of the event.

[@redblood421]

Yeah it's a bad pokemon player verify I think his name is. He literally said on video and brag about it.

[@stonalisa3729]

@@asimhussain8716 He's a loser that starts drama over things that really don't matter like players using pkHex. It's very much a him thing to play a cancerous combo

[@redblood421]

@@asimhussain8716 yup that the guy. I haven't heard about him in like 6 years.

[@xMikeyHardyx]

@@redblood421funny you mention him, he called out Wolfey in a recent video. I wouldn’t dare click it and give him 1 view.

[@Trollingunicorn3]

No shot mf Verlisify of all people was doing this bs lmaooo

[@brianlauria]

not a technicality it's called SHARKING

[@3stepsahead704]

Maybe, but anything to stop that freaking annoying hand shuffle.

[@lifedeather]

Facts 💀

[@Thot-Slayer-420]

@@3stepsahead704 i'm going to shuffle my hand and you can't stop me

[@grizzlybear6377]

​@@3stepsahead704 Really? 😅

[@3stepsahead704]

@@grizzlybear6377 you bet!

[@qty1315]

The infamous Beelze/Red-Eyes loop would be a fun one to talk about if you haven't already. It's an infinite loop that's actually legal in competitive play, and it's one of the funniest interactions ever since if you summon Red-Eyes Flare Metal Dragon to the field when your opponent has Beelze on the field, Beelze and Red-Eyes will activate their effects until the Red-Eyes has inflicted enough burn damage to win.

[@Squiddys]

👀📝

[@avatarmufasa3628]

I mean, if an inifinite loop leads to a winning endgame, then typically it is legal anyways. But yeh, this was seen in practice

[@Xeno-The-Wanderer]

Does this apply to masquerade as well? As branded Despia have an easy way to bring beelze to the opponent’s side of the field

[@arielgutierrez8415]

​@@Xeno-The-Wandererit does not work with masquerade, beelze triggers when taking effect damage and masquerade forces your opponent to *pay* life points

[@Okami400]

Its a known FTK, but yes its pretty funny.

[@JGdouble2]

Side deck the card and make your opponent announce every time he draws a card to make sure he dosn't "accidentally" add extra cards

[@OneAndOnlyZekePolaris]

Side Decks are never on the table.

[@michaelglynn7010]

That’s the most rule sharking thing I’ve seen, but I’m not surprised people did this

[@NITESHADOWshouske]

If my opponent did that, then I’d banish his ass to the shadow realm😂

[@MarlonL0pez]

This happened to my friend once at a YCS in 2013. His opp sided this card to do this to people. The judges ruled in that guys favor and gave my friend a game loss to end the match.

[@Squiddys]

damn!! THATS CRAZY

[@lock_checker4342]

F

[@conundrum60690]

That judge was in the wrong. Unreversible game errors require clear and firm intent

[@SaintoftheHonest]

Yes, this happened irl. Unfun fact: Verlisify did this at an event and complained that they changed the rules mid-tournament for it.

[@PhilHarmon1]

That´s Verlisify, and i don´t even have to check if it´s true, because that´s EXACTLY what this furry is known to do. Nobody is allowed to cheat, except for him.

[@JollyGyarados]

Yeah, f that guy.

[@StevenMcSteve]

God I used to like his videos but then I got curious and asked him a question about Pokémon tournaments and he called me entitled and arrogant, literally just asked him a question and he started mouthing off at me and insulting me

[@herrdoktornapy6835]

​@StevenMcSteve verlis is right about a lot of things but he's such a snake. It's hard to take him serious

[@universebofficialchannel]

It's fucking crazy that he tries to scum every community he enters. Fuck verlisify

[@yuedarkangel1]

I'd say if you don't activate it at the time of drawing then you should just miss timing. So if the opponent draws a card you have to call priority before they add the card to their hand.

[@aleanddragonITA]

Exactly, you should activate it before your opponent shuffles his cards

[@OneAndOnlyZekePolaris]

Actually, it is before standby phase and after drawing the card. And you shouldn't be allowed to mix your hand

[@cannonballkuriboh]

Can confirm people tried this in events, it was not a fun time.

[@animegx45]

After playing other card games, I've come to learn that shuffling your hand is a give-away sign that you played yugioh.

[@killuahsmathetricks389]

Not really. Never played YGO but Magic the Gathering. And I am also "flicking" my cards. Just a fidgeting thing. No reason at all. I can also just lay them down face down on the table in fron of me. But if I have them in my hand its occuping them. However in mtg it wouldnt even need to be shuffled. The moment the card touches your hand it is considered not to be a repairable gamestate anymore.

[@benparker3224]

I never played Yu-Gi-Oh outside of some of the video games. I definitely got the hand shuffling from MTG also

[@MiamiMarkYT]

I’m too much of a moron to shuffle my hand so this wouldn’t be an issue

[@aleanddragonITA]

Yeah, like what's the point of shuffling your hands? If it's to place them in a specific order then i take at least 30~50 Seconds to do it And if he wait for me to do that then it's clear he did it on purpose

[@stuffs100]

Yup those are definitely MTG Judges

[@MattZaabadick]

This was more of an issue with time seal. People would activate it, make you forget it was activated and then once you drew a card they would call a judge. You had to keep a dice on your deck to not forget time seal was in effect.

[@DARKVEEMON1]

Now that Time Seal is limited and combo decks take longer turns this could be more actual than ever

[@polocatfan]

i mean that's definitely on the person who drew the card in that case.

[@schwarzerritter5724]

Definitely should be disqualified for using magic to make you forget.

[@aleanddragonITA]

Couldn't you just discarge a random card and say: "Can you prove this isn't the card i just drew?"

[@schwarzerritter5724]

@@aleanddragonITA Then you have caused an irreparable game state.

[@BizarreSummer]

verlisify backstory

[@Squiddys]

💀💀

[@BizarreSummer]

@@Squiddys Lmao he knows

[@Squiddys]

@@BizarreSummer "vgc is all cheatars" 😹

[@Blahblah-oo7lk]

​@@Squiddyshe has also gone on a streak to attack TCG players too.

[@mugiwaraLux]

Holy fuck did not expect verlisify hate here. Love it

[@ThePhoenixGang]

I remember one time I played a card that said to put my monsters on the bottom of the deck in any order. My opponent proceeded to cut the deck assuming it was a shuffle and created an irreparable game state

[@jacobwoodman4488]

That’s not irreparable if they are known monsters on the field

[@wilFluffball]

​@@jacobwoodman4488even if he can go through his deck to find them the damage is already done. The cards in his deck are no longer in the order they would have been.

[@bradywolfe362]

​@jacobwoodman4488 the deck was cut when it shouldn't have been. That's a game state you cannot take back without giving a player an advantage of deck knowledge

[@aarondoodlebug6945]

The monsters that are being put on the bottom of the deck might be known, but the order of the rest of the cards in the deck is not. While you may be able to make sure that the cards that you put at the bottom of the deck are the same cards in the same order. However, since you don't know what order tge other remaining cards were in, you can't guarantee the other cards are going to be placed back in the same order they were originally in before the deck was cut. Hence, the irreversible game state.

[@shadowtakamiki1]

This reminds me of why they changed mind crush. Mind crush would be too strong in the current game

[@3stepsahead704]

I liked playing mind crush in my dark world deck, fee discard and now I know my opponents hand. Sweet c:

[@Rncko]

@@3stepsahead704 Fun days.... but not after April 2019. (When Mind Crush and other game checking scenarios are now just one-sided verbal confirmation from opponent)

[@undeadinside3571]

Traps in general are too slow for it to matter anymore. Games last 1 turn usually. Tons of 1 card FTK stuff coming out lately. Player 2 doesnt even get a turn against gimmick puppet, the new XYZ (machine) stuff, or a certain volcanic snake-eye variant

[@polocatfan]

now the rules literally encourage you to cheat.

[@Steele47]

I was expecting pole position ruling, making your opponent unable to play cards cuz that would make an endless loop. (Before the rules revision of it)

[@DirtyOne83]

I played drop off years ago in a deck with don zalog and other discard effect monsters (hino kagu-shchi) and I tried to empty my opponents hand and drop off during their next turn. I was told I could not drop off after dealing damage with hino due to the timing of when my opponent discarded (start of their turn, during the draw phase but before drawing card for turn so Hino "misses" activation window??? Never got that sorted out.

[@YuGoTheSpeedSter]

Insane

[@Squiddys]

probably the most accurate word that discribes yugioh players xD

[@Mage_Nichlas_]

This wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) work in today's game. If a player intentionally allows their opponent to make a mistake that would alter the gamestate illegally(if this somehow counts) to then call for a judge would result in both players receiving a penalty(if any). Without being on like a stream match/intently watched by judges, it is far easier for *BOTH* players to cooperate with each other and not need a judge to explain to you the stick up your butt is unnecessary and inconsequential. Furthermore, calling a judge and demanding a specific penalty to be enacted on your opponent is not tolerated. The judge can give you a penalty for doing this. For casual play, tournament play, beginner/learner/test play, and playground Yugioh, it is a much better experience for everyone involved if you work together with your opponent to uphold and represent a legal gamestate and leave the "surprise tactics" for the actual game, not rigidly trying to fist your opponent with a rulebook. Only call a judge in tournament play for legitimate issues you and your opponent can't resolve legally, rulings for cards already played in the Chain, or reporting truly problematic behavior from your opponent(like actually cheating, consistently/intentionally not resolving effects/conditions to gain an advantage, etc.).

[@micspidi7855]

That's such a tomodachi game way for winning a duel

[@nunyabiznes33]

I guess this wouldn't be an issue when playing via apps, the most recently drawn card is added to the right of hand pile.

[@Mage_Nichlas_]

Although if that card(s) was placed on top of your Deck by an effect they would draw and shuffle the hand on the opponent's screen. I wonder how the interaction works and which goes first. Obviously it would still be the card(s) you drew so no change in effect but like is there a visual change.

[@codebracker]

I mean the apps would just know which card was drawn last

[@triforce9286]

That's why i announce draw phase before i draw "Draw phase?" "Okay" "Stand-by?" "Wait, end of draw phase, I activate drop-off! You shuffled your hand! I win!" "Nah, you missed your timing, it's "when", you can't trigger it at the end of the phase"

[@polocatfan]

yeah that's my opinion too. it's on the turn player to declare draw phase, not on the drop off player.

[@zanzax6438]

I love how you have a still frame of MAGIC GHE GATHERING judges on a yugioh video

[@corvusventure1362]

Nice, Spyro 3 music in the BG.

[@IndexInvestingWithCole]

That's weird you have to announce youre going to use drop off, because if you draw a quickplay like MST you could just activate it with priority before drastic drop off

[@tmgn7588]

mst doesnt negate

[@gianlucaherrera5472]

Since they’re counter traps I don’t think you could use a QPS against, only other counter traps

[@default_liver1641]

DDO has spell speed 3 while MST is spell speed 2 so DDO would take priority and MST doesnt negate

[@Gymantis]

It doesn't matter how fast cards are. Turn player priority means that the turn player get to activate MST before opponent activates DDO.

[@wranglingranger5113]

​@@Gymantisbut the opponent would be able to activate DDO in response and it would be chain 2 which would resolve its effect first before being destroyed also like everyone here has said MST does not negate effects after they are activated

[@unclefred3128]

This is one of the reasons why I'd never go to an actual Yugioh tourney. It's not people trying to win in their favourite game anymore......

[@Cr4z3d]

It's WAR

[@unclefred3128]

@@Cr4z3d It's a children's card game.....

[@ryanthecringeanimator9541]

Except that it is so much not a childrens card game that they made a new format to market towards children and even that isnt a childrens card game cause TCG & OCG players alike who are sick of Master Format migrate to that new format. Rush Format. ​@@unclefred3128

[@nmr7203]

This was always a thing, even back then at a local level. Playing YGO was never really fun, we just told ourselves it was.

[@shadenox8164]

@@nmr7203 They never said it wasn't, they just said this is why they'd never go to a tourney you know as opposed to playing with friends. A local tourney is still a tourney.

[@HieiZx]

Shout to Milano 😎

[@psyky]

Ah yes , much like the i activate woboku before you summon jinzo logic

[@tobito3100]

What the f*** man? I was just thinking of adding Drastic Drop Off to a different deck of mine.

[@thskater1]

I could bet on the fact that several conpetitive yugi players tried that. We're rule sharks to the finest 😂

[@ammazer1229]

Growing up my favorite alternative win condition was my cat coming onto the table we were playing on and deciding who wins

[@williampeete2473]

I've watch quite a bit of Yugioh they always stare are the card they drew.

[@Clownzombie]

I have PTSD when it comes to these cards. My friend plays counter fairies and would run both

[@DeweySizemore]

You know, there's a more modern way of using those two drop off's: lay both down with Temple of the kings active, then immediately play Card/Hand Destruction. You can chain both Drop Off's just as they drew their new hand.....What do you mean, that's a Toxic play?..

[@XLuxtra]

I love how it turns from OTK into FTK into NotK

[@Verlisify]

I miss my dropoff OTK. I won 3 rounds at regionals in 2009. Head judge came on the mic and live errata'd the announcement

[@Squiddys]

hi verlisify .-.

[@Verlisify]

@@Squiddys yo

[@ChueKhang001]

It happened. My opponent did this to me. Judge gave the same ruling.

[@seanfitzgerald341]

I'm confused - why would it have been an irreparable game state?

[@IndexInvestingWithCole]

players shuffle their hand after drawing as a habit, so you flip drop off and theres no way to know which card should have been discarded

[@parlor3115]

​@@IndexInvestingWithCole Why is this a thing, though? Shouldn't the opponent just cooperate and point out the card he drew?

[@weslleycavalcantegadelha3174]

@@parlor3115 "Never trust your opponent"

[@pavma7]

Yes but there is no proof he points out the right caard so the gamestate is fucked. ​@@parlor3115

[@DelothVyrr]

@@parlor3115 how do you know your opponent is telling the truth? They have to prove that was the card they drew and not some brick in their hand they'd rather get rid of.

[@tyronerock5336]

I use drop off in my vanquish soul deck, that shit be funny when they finally get one card in their hand and it goes to the grave yard immediately.

[@PiastTorun]

This is so funny. I could see myself making this an inside joke.

[@CreamerOfTheDairySquad]

They followed the letter of the law, the judges followed the spirit of the law

[@emotionalsupport]

Checking Draw Phase is no different than "on rez"

[@lynxfirenze4994]

That is a hilarious way to essentially cheat, but it's good that the judges apparently realised how dumb it was. Though I'd say that by waiting you've mistimed the activation

[@Trishula]

I think someone topped a Detroit regional doing this back in the day

[@PikachuODST]

Reminds me when this scummy guy I knew. He used Maiden of blue eyes "hidden ability" that's not even written on the card. Which is a real thing. I forget what it was but I remember it being bs.

[@PikachuODST]

He was scummy because he stole my Gameboy Color and Pokemon Yellow with the whole save file from me.

[@Lucarivyle]

People that use such methods to win should immediately be disqualified.

[@jokerofspades-xt3bs]

Somebody tried it at a local tournament, he was kicked out for trying to abuse rules to obtain victory

[@mrdude88]

Me: hey opponent, I just set drop off and I'm going to activate it on your turn. Opponent: Then I'll just destroy your face-down card with my set MST.

[@firby7341]

if the opponent already shuffled their hand, the moment to activate that card has passed. better be quicker next time lol

[@Alex_Iope]

That Spyro track rocks!

[@ZoroarkLover98]

I'd just rule that, if the hand was already shuffle, it's Standby Phase and the card missed timing. Sounds like less of a headache

[@hermeskino711]

I thought you were going to mention that friendship card where your opponent must shake your hand😅

[@fruitfulconnoisseur]

It would be simpler to have a timing ruling on the activation of drop off you would activate it before or right after ending your turn if you activated too late it will count towards your opponent's next draw phase not the current one

[@jacobexum9972]

That would be a sportsmanship error nowadays lol

[@Bob_Bob_B0b]

That Spyro music though.

[@TheYellowTuxedo]

“Ima make you discard your next draw. Don’t go mixing them up

[@OtakuUnitedStudio]

This is basically the same situation as the Yu-Jo/Symbol of Friendship combo, where someone complained a player could potentially do something disgusting to their hand before the handshake. That would mean either 1. Having to do something gross or 2. Forfeiting. The ruling basically said you only have to _accept_ the handshake, you don't have to actually shake hands. But far more importantly, the player trying that strategy would be instantly disqualified for unsportsmanlike behavior.

[@purplekey9330]

The famous level 1 dark monster, drop off

[@benjaminberkey2920]

Did anyone notice that kid from the anime was holding a piece of exodia?

[@usagifang]

It should be activated immediately when the opponent puts their hand on their deck during draw phase.

[@cesar1667]

A classmate of mine used to do that when we played at school. He waited for me to be like: - "ahahaha, now you're going to see my true power and..." - "Drop off!"

[@utroska]

Ah yes, telling my openent what my facedown is before even activating it.

[@jerap5760]

You activate at signal of end of your turn. Your end phase is complete. Enters draw phase for your opponent. Once your opponent draws from the deck. Standby phase is entered. This is describing activating the card during the opponents standby phase. Not the draw phase. Once the card is drawn it does not matter if you can identify it or not, you have entered standby phase. Standby is when you look at your card arrange it and so forth.

[@jerap5760]

You must play it as a reaction to the draw, or to the card that is allowing the draw (in the case of drastic drop off) if you wait for the cairds to have been added to the opponents hand, you will have mis timed your activation and would be moot.

[@Unbound_Selrahc]

Someone was so desperate for a win they had to argue with judges and win on a thrown out duel. How utterly sad and pathetic to be that person.

[@MrSimpsondennis]

I'm surprised that they didn't rule that Drop Off had to already be active before the draw?

[@tuongpham7609]

I mean, that’s kinda why people declare their steps.

[@Reverendld]

Happened in FL. Some scrubs were from my locals

[@DallyLama93]

Wait I thought you weren't suppose to shuffles the cards in your hand. Isn't that against the rules?

[@dougneon9550]

No you can shuffle the cards in your hand

[@shadenox8164]

Why would that be against the rules? Your opponent doesn't even know what you have in your hand anyways, which card you've drawn last isn't information your opponent is entitled to know.

[@RyanXHunter]

@@shadenox8164 maybe not now when the graveyard is just a second deck and no one plays hand destruction decks anymore, but back then when decking out your opponent and graveyard wasn't as usefull as it is now there were alot of cards that were used which you could take advantage off knowing the order of cards in your opponents hand, when it was a slow game for example you use a card that returns cards to the hand if the card was face up on the field and you returned it to the hand it's usefull to know which one it is in the hand so you know what card was set

[@GaussianEntity]

You're supposed to shuffle the cards in your hand to preserve private information lol. If you hold your hand in order, a deductive sleuth can figure out your hand with some degree of accuracy.

[@RyanXHunter]

@@GaussianEntity it doesn't make sense back when the game was slow though, with cards allowing you to look at your opponents hand, they shouldn't suffle the hand once the effect is concluded, if that was the case why do we shuffle the deck after taking out a monster for example with sangan ? nowdays it doesn't matter cause the game got too fast for it to matter, but back when the game was " i set a monster and two facedown cards and end my turn " it did matter

[@sensan257]

I remember a player trying this trick at a local the judge kicked the player out for being a problem.

[@vanesslifeygo]

This shouldn't have been okay for even 5 seconds wtf

[@percythemouse9073]

Drop Off would probably work well with the Reincarnation and Droll combo.

[@glacialshine4022]

Cloud Spires Soundtrack from Spyro YotD I hear. 😅

[@daponagegoogenburg807]

I personally think at that point they missed timing. You'd have to activate this before draw step or something

[@Arukea]

Spyro music in the bg

[@mrnoneofurbusiness7942]

so you say the official ruling now is i have to announce BEFORE i pass my turn i'm gonna activate drop off? *opponent activates mst in my end phase* somehow i doubt that. any sources?

[@joshuawoodring1697]

Youd think if they activate after the draw step it would apply at the next applicable moment

[@Kristjan0209]

Love how you showed magic judges

[@Squiddys]

XD

[@joshmcclung4647]

I used convulsions of nature with this combo😁

[@supersmily5811]

Wouldn't it just function after that draw, since it was activated after the draw was done?

[@ratchet1271]

Spyro music noticed

[@nyaknyaknyak]

and that's why I use Eye of Truth and Convulsion of Nature in case lol

[@gogol_nikolai166]

this thing will be op with card destruction

[@adunegaming3821]

Can i use card destruction and drop off to kill my opponents hand?

[@user-tk9nx2ho3f]

Diabolical!😂

[@PapiCito]

I would always say it right when they are about to draw. Because saying it before they draw means they can mst or hit the backrow at end phase amd thats messed up too.

[@hammythesquirrel7876]

Both say when The miss timing if adding the card isn't the last thing your opponent did

[@peb1840]

This better be worth my time

[@Chaoxide666]

They would have skipped the draw phase in that scenario no? And the card says WHEN not after. So you would need to activate it before they drew

[@stamossarris7969]

A card being used sinisteraly? That has never happened before... no 😂

[@benparker3224]

If the opponent already drew their card, surely that would just mean the they skipped the trigger right?

[@1slayer959]

How does this make you win by technicality? If anything it should just be an illegal play at that point, especially if you're knowingly activating it at a point that'd be impossible for it to work In fact, now that I look at it. Both cards, have the infamous, "when" word. This is the one time it'd be pretty clear cut. WHEN your opponent adds a card. Use the effect. If ya missed your chance. Too bad

[@shadenox8164]

Yeah, you should have to play that card when they're literally drawing. Unless your opponent is deliberately rushing their draw you should have plenty of time to decide.

[@GaussianEntity]

That's why the judges ruled it the way they did. Activating it at the very end of the previous turn also prevents any sort of confusion on the topic, especially for Drastic Drop Off which is difficult to chain to.

[@derricksteward4483]

This is why card shuffling in had should not be allowed unless information about the had is known, like after card reveals.

[@Spoopball]

It's 100% on the trap player's onus to activate the card at the correct time. (When drawn) not (after shuffled into hand).

[@indrakurniadi2012]

Drastic drop off finally i'll be able counter maxx c😂😂

[@dokushi]

Would've been a different story if they used that combo on dark world players

[@lucdelorme5923]

My first tournament as a kid I lost a game because of this!

[@Quonchon]

There is a rule saying that you are not allowed to shuffle your graveyard, just because of the "question" magic card