This Saab has a VERY serious GM problem!

It's a running joke to have 'Saab stories', and this 2011 9-5 Aero has TWO. One story will make you laugh and the other is a very GM problem that may make you cry. You've got to see just what's wrong with this car. Don't forget to check out @MrsWizardsWays for her great content.
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#errorcodes #saab #timingchain

[@capang9555]

I'm a SAAB mechanic by trade. Been an automotive mechanic for almost 10 years now. When GM took part ownership in 1990 things seemed to be okay, SAAB was able to take free range of whatever they wanted with their cars. The NG900 (2ND generation 900) is a testimony to it, a very reliable and dependable car. I've seen many go well over 200K, mine personally has 300K miles on original engine, turbo and gearbox.... Anyways, when GM took full ownership in 2000 that's when things really started to change. SAAB really fought for their individuality. But they're all using gm sourced parts. Build quality took a nose dive and reliability did as well. The 2nd generation 9-3 2003+ and 9-5 2010+ are a testament to that. Cheap build quality, horrible issues with the engines, electrical issues all over. It's really unfortunate. Now what a lot of people don't realize is without GM, SAAB wouldn't have made it by the year 2000. So we have some things to thank GM for. But at the same time they really fought to put SAAB in their grave in 2012. Anyways thanks for listening to my Ted talk.

[@BruceLudwick]

I feel like anything with the Ecotec is very sensitive to oil change intervals. My 04 Linear looks super clean, but the owners were good about it (dealer, etc.) and I am, too. Neighbor's NG 9-5 wasn't that way, but it wasn't well taken-care-of. Had to have a lot of the motor rebuilt, and of course the chains. Only big thing on mine has been the inevitable water pump. The electrical issues, though, as you say, are no joke. Just awful. Still can't figure out why my side markers (not the turn signals) don't work after we replaced the fuse box (which had to be done because the A/C wouldn't work...)

[@zzoinks]

​@@BruceLudwickI didn't know that fuse boxes needed to be replaced. I assumed fuse panels are relatively simple and can't go wrong unless they sustained damage, well I don't know much about them.

[@davidgetero9311]

As a Saan fan in the past, I agree. Drove a 9000 Aero for a while, and owned two 9-5 Aero, and of course when they worked were fantastic cruisers, but men, the build quality of the 9-5`s compared to the 9000 was disgusting. And the reliability was a disaster too. They have multiple design issues, starting with the oil sump getting clogged, which happens because they put the ridicule amount of 4L of oil for a 2.3L Turbo 250hp engine and for make it even worse, a faulty PCV system. The piston rings are also very weak and all of them, with the revised PCV system consumes lots of oil (1L every 1500km easily). The pistons are very weak, in intensive use they crack even with stock horsepower. The rpms surges in gear changes (in manual transmision) because the throttle by wire is just too slow responding. Also the throttle dies because the wires inside are "ecological wire" as in the 90's Mercedes, and you get the famous "limp home position". Timing chains are not a common issue but with +300.000km for sure they need replacing, and they are a engine out job of course, even with an engine not that large in a big car like that, everything is put in the most hateful way and there is barely space for work. And on the inside, the climate control unit is a complete disaster of broken plastic parts that are a pain to fix with the alluminium ones, of course in the case that one of the blend door axels haven't snapped, in which case you need to take out the whole dash. There are lots of minor things i'm not adressing here that are constantly failing and ends up driving you crazy.

[@capang9555]

@@BruceLudwick some people have good luck with their sports sedans. And they like to come after me like "I've owned mine for balh blah blah years and never had any issues" the thing is a single owner isn't really the best gauge of reliability for a car. Ask a dealer or a mechanic. The amount of sport sedans with major issues is outrageous. All that being said I'm glad yours is one of the lucky ones. As for the side markers. Make sure the housing isn't melted. The stupid housings melt and allow water into them and then it shorts out the socket for the bulb.

[@capang9555]

@@davidgetero9311 9-5s were def an upgrade from the 9000s in my book. They had their issues, but the 9000s had a lot of major issues as well.

[@bbqchef88]

GM crashed the brand. I drove convertibles for years. No matter the conditions I never felt more safe. They battled GM, as their engineers to fix the flaws. Just not enough money in their coffers.

[@markkrispin6944]

GM destroyed SAAB completely singlehandedly. .

[@pistonburner6448]

That's totally illogical and easily proven to be absolutely untrue: *_Saab themselves_* "crashed the brand"! Why do you think they had to sell to GM in the first place: because SAAB bankrupted themselves, just like they have been continuing to do ever since! How can you blame GM when Saab themselves when they were totally independent bankrupted themselves first, and then just continued on that same path? Saab made cars with a not good enough technical basis to justify a high enough price to break even, they instead used basic A-to-B car technical basis and then tried to add on little frills to justify a higher price but the customers weren't buying it. Then to make things even worse Saab engaged in ludicrous money-wasting projects one after the other! I'm not going to start educating you on all of Saab's history, you should read up on it. Those guys were absolute madlads for what they kept on burning money on!

[@650Max]

@@pistonburner6448 That's the _exact_ opposite of SAAB's ethos, they over-engineered so the car would do a huge mileage, even redesigning and re-engineering the GM base to improve longevity where possible.

[@danr1920]

They did, but not for lack of investments. They also wrecked all their other brands too.

[@jsun3117]

Why didn't Saab collude with Volvo the way Hyundai does with Kia? They would still be around, although manufactured in China but still be around.

[@Niro.C]

Last gen. 9-5 is a gorgeous car

[@vibingwithvinyl]

True. It still doesn't look dated, despite being a 13+ year old design.

[@greenfire919]

And rare...

[@FonicsSuck]

Looks like a Malibu

[@Niro.C]

@@FonicsSuck I think it shared the platform of the Buick Lacrosse, and the 2.8L twin-turbo V6 engine.

[@sts973007]

@@Niro.C not twin turbo , twin sroll

[@lordmartinofleithandcuddy6541]

THE NG 9-5 IS THE MOST BEAUTIFUL SEDAN EVER MANUFACTURED! I have recently acquired a 2011 Turbo4 Hirsch in metallic beige with essentially every option from factory. It is a stunning car and very fast for the engine size.

[@daveullens6517]

I own a 2011 2.0 diesel, 160hp, it's a pleasure driving it, and such a wonderfull design, especially if painted in a nice colour. I would love to see yours, because metallic beige isn't a factory colour I think. Anyway, in silver they don't look nice. I love the laser red, especially the only laser red sport combi is astonishing. With my 2.0 turbo diesel, I drove from Costa Brava, Spain, to Brussels suburbs, 1275 kms (792 miles) on one diesel tank, it was 5,3lt/100kms (for or brittish and us friends, this should be 44,38mpg) And it is reliable. The only bi problem I had, was the oil pump breaking around 190.000kms, but that could have benn caused by the guy I asked to change the oil having used the wrong oil. I should have made the oil analysed after it...

[@SombreroKnight]

I always loved the last gen 9-3 and 9-5’s especially the sportcombi . Sucks that GM gutted this brand.

[@red00eye]

I'm not one to defend GM but this time... SAAB committed suicide by repeatedly designing their own expensive parts like SatNav and axles that GM had on the shelf and wanted them to use.

[@Ce0ammer]

SAAB hade developed a combi and AWD in the 90s but GM kept a firm stranglehold on the SAAB technicians to make sure they didn't out do the Yankeeland brands.

[@Ce0ammer]

​@@red00eyeFlip that. GM should've let SAAB do more development and had them spearhead the whole thing. Then you would have a good satnav in all brands.

[@Beer_Dad1975]

@@red00eye Yeah, ultimately they were too kooky to succeed given the rapid pace of technology and legislation during the last 30 years - now it costs billions of dollars to develop a new platform to meet all the various safety laws around the world, so much needs to be shared with other brands and models just to make any new car viable - and if it's too kooky to appeal to enough buyers, even then it's not going to turn a profit.

[@dagrindzguy4250]

I had a 2009 9-3 sportcombi 2.0T...LOVED that car! Until it literally started disintegrating in 2018. Plastics, wiring, electrical...

[@huntertk9575]

I have a 2008 Saab 9-3 Aero with the same 2.8L v6 as the NG9-5 as long as you do regular oil changes every 5,000 miles the b284L and b284R engines are extremely reliable

[@canadiansaabfreak6530]

The 2.8 v6s in these were bulletproof. While the later ones did have chain issues, the ones in the 9-3 Aero are well known for being able to output up to 600 hp on a stock block and internals. My personal 2.8 v6 has around 470000 kilometers on it, and it drives like the day it left the factory. Some of the best turbocharged engines in the business if you ask me.

[@ryannylander1819]

Yes and keeping the oil fresh with earlier intervals really prolongs life on these timing chains. IIRC, the later 93 2.8 Aeros got some revised chains. My 08 is running tip top shape. Plan on being a bit more aggressive with maintenance as it’s making well above stock levels and runs superb. Love these 2.8s.

[@Vaigue]

I agree I’ve had 2 of these already and never had a failure with the engines. Just hot over 109k and my last one had 168k, both ran amazing.

[@AIRDRAC]

Thing is that isn't really an improvement over the engine it replaced (B234R 2.3 liter inline 4) - they pushed out 250 HP stock (315 measured at the wheels with Hirsch factory tune), and routinely went well past 300.000 miles, as well as happily taking 5-600hp on stock internals. And the B234(R) didn't have chain issues at all :) I sold my 9000 Aero with 476.000km on it with the Hirsch tune from day one, to a guy who decided to use it for trackdays, and upped the boost to get ~500 hp (probably more, but it all went up in wheelspin on the dyno around 500), and then crashed it going near 300 km/h. Thankfully he walked away.

[@ryannylander1819]

@@AIRDRAC Agree with your assessment of the original 2.3 T5 engine in that 9000, it was an amazing engineering feat, the car especially, and don’t think the following cars or engines, maybe the b204 T5, lived up to the mechanical potential of it, since the 2.3 T7 was a step backwards in terms of internal strength from the rods and pistons. Of course you could change that and you’re very near the potential of the original 2.3, the b234r in your old 9000, but IIRC the b234r block in those 9000s could handle over 1k hp, with other internals upgrades. Now, having had an 04 9-5 Aero with all the goodies except internal engine upgrades, and kept it at 330hp or so to keep the pistons (safer), and being an auto, the car was exceptional and reliable. What impressed me was the efficiency of that engine. 70-75mph on long trips with the AC running mid summer, just a tad over 36 mpg! Now, my current 08 9-3 aero, tons of power, well above stock, but can’t seem to Eeeck out more than 28-29 or so mpg. Where I love the 2.8 v6 more, the absolute smoothness (DD like) and sheer TQ. It has more robust stock internals to handle, what around 500-550hp with mods. Not too shabby, when considering where the last 2.3 T7 based engine left off. The simplicity of the old 2.3 I had however in that 9-5, I do miss that. Plus, unrelated to engines, the light and slightly numb steering in the 9-3 is my least favorite part of car. The 9-5s heavier steering I loved and made it a “driver” car.

[@andrewd.6072]

I knew something was off with this video, for what I recollect all saabs with the 2.8L turbo with the 250 and 280 hp variants were tough as nails so I was a bit flabbergasted by the 300hp variant being shit on lmao

[@texleeger8973]

I have a 2010 Saab 9-3 Aero with approx. 44.5k miles on it. It is fully loaded with all options except for the in-dash GPS. It's a New England car but does not venture out in our sloppy winters. I have had zero problems, other than a couple of winter mice. Very happy with the now rather rare and unusual car. PS I adore the last 9-5s with its Euro-elegant sculpting. And it is rather aggravating to see the seemingly horrible treatment this 9-5 received prior to visiting the Wizard.

[@andrewazzariti]

It's more than likely worth the investment on this one to address everything while the engine is out. These NG 9-5'S are phenomenal to drive. The headlights and taillights are big money on the parts market.

[@nathanielcrenshaw187]

This one's a hooptie, though. Fluid leak, no muffler, needs timing chains, the back bumper is damaged, etc.

[@theschiznit8777]

The GM 3.6 was the final stroke for this lifetime GM guy to say never again.

[@seanreber9064]

I've owned three Saabs over the years, and currently have a 2009 9-3 Aero XWD 6 speed with this same 2.8L turbo V6 with ~110k miles on it. It's been a great daily driver for the last 5 years but once it hit the 100k mile mark the issues start popping up left and right and the big issue for me is parts availability. For what it's worth I've not heard of any serious issues with the 2.8L engine in these timing chain or otherwise. I believe they are built in Australia by Holden. People love to tune them for big horse power as the internals are pretty stout. Most components you can get for Saabs today are made by some company calling itself Pro Parts Sweden that makes absolute garbage parts. I needed a fuel pump and spent nearly a year trying to source a junk yard fuel pump assembly to rebuild after putting 5 different Pro Parts Sweden fuel pumps in that all had critical defects that prevented the excess fuel pressure from bleeding out of the system when the car was driven and then shut off. Now I'm having XWD system issues and that was enough for me. I went out and sourced a low mileage Lexus LS430 as a replacement. It's a shame as the 9-3 was fantastic to drive and very comfortable, but I'm just not confident I'll be able to keep it maintained and depend on it. I wouldn't mind getting a nice example of an early 9-5 at some point. The quality really went downhill thanks to GM after about 2005 or so when the 9-5 got its first facelift.

[@ryannylander1819]

About two years ago the new factory OEM pump replacements are garbage, like you mentioned. Found out when I received one and sent that junk right back. Now running a larger 340 AEM (or aeromotive, I forget) pump I think. Very little modification to make it work and now supports big numbers. Hope to not have any issues with it since I ran the same big pump in my modded 9-5 2.3 aero without issue for 60k before selling. LS430, that’s a mighty fine car, love those. Incredibly reliable engineering there.

[@seanreber9064]

@ryannylander1819 Yes you can replace just the pump. The problem is the assembly contains an internal filter that's impossible to replace and the plastic of the assembly housing itself is rather brittle and degraded on most of these cars by now. My point being having no access to new pumps is scary especially with how finicky the fuel system is on these cars. Doubly so for the rare V6 XWD examples with the split fuel tank.

[@ryannylander1819]

@@seanreber9064 agreed and you make a valid point on the split tank, had forgot that fact. I think I used a new pumps basket so all was replaced, nothing left old and swapped in the larger pump. Not sure on the filter part. Also the aftermarket larger pump was e85 compat along with compat with our fuel systems being returnless. Think I’m about 3k miles now on this big pump without a hiccup.

[@marcusjosefsson4998]

Yup. Pro Parts Sweden is total crap! Parts aren't made in Sweden at all, they're made by lowest bidder in China, to poor specifications. I made the mistake of buying some Pro Parts for my Volvo. Never again!

[@BruceLudwick]

what country are you in? Just go esaabparts here or something similar. I've had good luck with eeuroparts, but some others have not. Rock Auto is actually great for Saab stuff, usually.

[@CaptainFeathersword]

I had a 2005 9-3 Arc....extremely fast and highly underrated....far and away the most fun car I have ever owned.

[@GuyChapman]

I am ambivalent about end-state SAABs. GM tried to wrestle them down to standard components, and the engineers completely subverted it, but the 9-3 and 9-5 were never as good as the glorious 9000. But every SSAB has glorious ergonomics, unequalled by anything else I ever drove, including my beloved 2014 Volvo XC70. Which also had Haldex AWD.

[@TheOzthewiz]

Ford also had the Haldex in their '05-'07 "Freestyle" CUV.

[@rapu4]

I gotta say, the early pre-facelift 9-5s, 98-01 iirc, are pretty damn good. That was before GM really got to gutting the 9-5, and I'd take an early 9-5 over a 9000 any day, except for the 9000 Aero, but I'd still argue that the 9-5 is a better car. The difference in chassis stiffness and handling is just insane

[@GuyChapman]

@@rapu4 I drove from London to Glasgow and back in a day in a SAAB 9000. Not a "long trip" by US standards, but 800 miles, 17 hours' driving. Loved it! I can't get over how stiff modern cars are, though, with glued body panels instead of spot-welded.

[@AlessandroGenTLe]

The 9000 was a joint frame that was used also in Lancia Thema and Alfa Romeo 164 (oh, and the Fiat Croma). All really good cars back then.

[@nuttycommuter3718]

@@AlessandroGenTLeyes, except Saab weren’t happy with the Italian’s approach to safety so made some changes!

[@gpcdiagnostics]

Hey Wizard- GM in Australia used the 3.6 in the Holden Commodore (As in Pontiac G8 and Chevy SS). They have the exact same problem and GM “Flashed” the ECU’s to dumb down the sensitivity of the DTC codes so that they didn’t start to come on till the cars were out of warranty (100,000km). Rubbish engine and the ECU’s were really prone to failure too!

[@claytonhayball4718]

These engines including the SAAB,were built in Victoria. Unless oil changes under 10k there were timing chain issues guaranteed around 180k mark.

[@laurat1129]

Finally, a Saab on the channel. My 9-3 cv will be 25 y.o. in Feb, driven daily and happily, and I love it. Not too familiar w/these late model 9-5s, though, or how much these have in common w/mine. The few I’ve seen on the roads here in MA are in much better condition than this one, which looks like it was neglected and sitting for awhile. Down in NJ, among his other Saabs and cars, Kyle Pancis has one of these from salvage, I think, that he’s restored on his own YT channel. Thanks, Wizard, for sharing this Saab Story.🇸🇪

[@BerraLJ]

I see them from time to time here in Sweden but they are not common, even seen a 96 and 99 recently but those are beyond rare.

[@nuttycommuter3718]

@@BerraLJmy garage had a 96 in and it’s the first time in ages I’d seen one up close and I was blown away by how pretty they are. Really something special. My first introduction to Saab was my dad’s 99 when I was 14. It’s was 1980s brown and had an economy gauge (instead of a turbo gauge), but had a 99 turbo 4 spd. After that I had Saabs ever since I passed my test

[@patrickbeggan1100]

I’m on my second 2.8 turbo Saab and have never had a problem with these engines. I’ve maintained them but they’ve been reliable regardless. Meanwhile in the last two months I’ve seen two 3.6 motors with disintegrated timing chains in the shop I work at. The two engines are definitely of the same basic architecture, and I’m not sure of the exact extent of the differences between them, but the 2.8t is a far superior engine to the 3.6. They can make good power, too.

[@andrewd.6072]

I’m not sure either but this issue wasn’t a concerne in prior model. 2.8L with the L and R variant (250 and 280hp) were bulletproof engine, they can very easily (with good maintance) go up to 400/500K kms without issues. The guy repeating over and over “saab story” is quite cringy🫤 just because some of this model were unreliable it doesn’t mean all Saab are trash Either way, timing chains need to be serviced every now and then, 4/5K to do it? Madening, at this point I would do it myself with a bit of time and effort And even the guy saying 30/40 hours to do it💀 At best it would take 10/15 Hours. This just shows how much mechanic are either incompetent of just try to squees as much money from us as they can. I can confidently say it takes not more then 10/15 hours ‘cause I know how to disassemble all of those parts that he mentioned being in the way, it doesn’t take more then 2 hours to do really, and how much time will it take to do the chain service? 5/6 hours? And I’m being generous here. As I said, 4 to 5K for this job is really good jock, it would be more around 1 to 1.5K in my opinion, that’s still a lot of money but not so much to say “then I’ll just replace the car”, the time and money he said they should take to fix the car is straight up stupid

[@saleenmav]

He just got some bad information from somewhere apparently. These 2.8’s do not have common timing problems and they have ZERO relation to the high feature 3.6 he was talking about.

[@andrewd.6072]

@@saleenmav as always, the only saab story about saabs are the mechanics that have to show just how much ignorant are about these cars💀

[@AeroGuy07]

07 9-3 Aero 2.8T V6 6spd. I daily drove it for 11 years and 175K miles. It currently has 177K. It's been dead reliable. Still on the original clutch, water pump, timing chain, power steering pump and a few other things.

[@simp_slayer69bruh46]

it’s getting to that age

[@sambear6079]

People don't know about the 2.8Ts and it's funny. Mine has just a tune with 320hp. About to add an 18g turbo, injectors and tune for 400+. If everyone knew about the power potential for these engines, the value of the 9-3 2.8Ts would shoot up in price. People are running big turbos without touching the internals with 550whp+.

[@richardcutts196]

The main argument against getting a different car (for 8 or 9k) because of a 5k repair problem is 'how long before the 'new' car needs the same repair?'. If you get this one fixed you at least know it will be good for a while.

[@Fishsticks187]

How would you know that? Something else could fail on the Saab at any time.

[@richardcutts196]

@@Fishsticks187 Yes, that’s true. You don’t know. The only thing you would know is the problem you had fixed should be good for a while. If you’re going to spend enough money to consider getting a different car maybe get a beater and look around while saving up for a Toyota or something else good.

[@ruley73]

I work at a GM dealership and have never seen timing issues with the 2.8L or 3.0L engines. It's always the pre-LGX 3.6L engines that have issues. This 2.8L turbo engine easily has the most complex coolant/heater hose setup I have ever seen on a GM vehicle. Lots of little hoses, tees, and fittings. The big plastic tee going to the upper radiator hose on these vehicles likes to break.

[@elmayimbe5094]

Yeah man, those early 3.6's were the worst with timing chains.

[@elmayimbe5094]

That VW Phaeton in the back though ❤❤❤

[@multivisao]

You mean 3y old under warranty GMs aren’t experiencing time chain issues? 😂😂😂 the 3.6 family is a headache…

[@ryannylander1819]

It’s funny you mentioned the coolant heater hose setup. I’ve often visually marveled at how much is going on there with that one on mine. 😂. Thanks for pointing that fact out about the 2.8s not really having that issue with timing chains. I do remember something though about the first ones in like 06-07 having a few cases, but normally always related to pushing oil interval changes too far out.

[@jamescanfield7251]

The 3.6 engine is a good road trip engine when new. They are smooth, get you up to speed on the freeway just fine, and pull hills well. It’s too bad that they have the reliability issues.

[@rossclayton2094]

My dad had a 1999 9-3 Turbo 5MT (when SAAB was still Swedish). Amazing car, felt like a rocket ship with the jet-inspired dash ("Born From Jets") and when the turbo kicked in, it took off. Great in snow even as a FWD. Unfortunately New England rust got to it and ruined the underbody, otherwise he'd probably still have it. He bought a 2006 9-3 about 5 years ago, but it just wasn't the same (GM garbage), and the auto transmission took a dump 2 years after he bought it, so he traded it in for his 2014 FJ, which he loves to this day.

[@kevinrhodes335]

Saab was half owned by GM from 1990, and they bought the other half in 2000. The NG900 and OG9-3 are based on the Opel Vectra and are basically GM products with a Swedish accent. I had a '95 900SET, and it was a very good car, but it had plenty of GM in it. I also had a 2008 9-3 SportCombi that was the only Saab I bought new. It was also a very good car. Both of them were better then the classic 900s I owned in terms of reliability and build quality, but definitely lacked character in comparison.

[@nuttycommuter3718]

@@kevinrhodes335I’m surprised you found the 1995 900 to be better than the classic ones. That 900, before they did the 9-3 hatch, is generally regarded as the worst car Saab made. They had to put an extra plate for revisions on it. The 2.0 litre H engine in the classic 900s and 9000s goes on forever

[@nuttycommuter3718]

Front wheel drive is better in snow than RWD.

[@kevinrhodes335]

@@nuttycommuter3718 For all their faults and neglect, GM taught Saab A LOT about how to properly bolt a car together. The NG900 still had the same motor as the 9000, just with less displacement. They also last forever - and they are bolted to a transmission that lasts as long as the motor, unlike the C900. They are much less rust prone and have a much better and far more modern interior, albeit with less space inside. 205HP vs. 160HP in the C900T. They definitely have some handling issues out of the box, but the "Viggen Rescue Kit" fixes that quite nicely. The motor issues didn't start until the OG9-3 when Saab/GM made a LOT of changes in the name of fuel efficiency, and increased the oil change interval which resulted in the well-known sludging issues. There was simply no comparing the reliability of the NG900 to the C900, and the NG900 still had a pretty simple electrical architecture - not nearly so reliant on the Tech II system as the later cars. I think in many ways "peak Saab" was the '98 NG900SET - it got a number of the things that were better that the OG9-3 got, like the hydraulic clutch, some of the handling fixes from the factory, but without the things that made the OG9-3 worse. Mine was a '95 but I did the hydraulic clutch and shifter linkage upgrades as well. Overall, it was my favorite Saab - and I have owned 2X '69 Sonett V4s, '85 and '92 C900Ts, '00 and '02 9-5 wagons (SE V6t and Aero) and the '08 9-3SC that I bought new in the GM fire sale in '09. C900s are fun cars, but they are also at their core a car of the late 1960s, given they are fundamentally a revamped 99.

[@nuttycommuter3718]

@@kevinrhodes335 I know my old mechanic rated highly the NG900 Talladega and I totally agree that the c900 is basically a 60’s car. I didn’t have an NG900, but I had a 1987 900 T8 and then moved on to 9000s before a break when I went back to an OG9-3. I’m on a 2006 9-5 now (non Dame Edna) and it’s wonderful (will be more wonderful in a month’s time when it has a couple of bits fixed and heated seats added!)

[@stephenmoncrieff2056]

I bought an Enclave that had a blown tranny . When I had the engine out to put in a new tranny I also put new chains and tensioners in (I'm a GM tech) . I've found that with doing the oil changes when it's due (oil life at 20%) , there is a better chance at prolonging the life of the chains .

[@Glenintheden]

I still got my 97 Saab 900 running and I'm still enjoying it as a daily driver, it runs well. There doesn't seem to be many of these Seinfeld generation 900s left; there seems to be more previous generation 900s, presumably because they're more collectible than the 900 generation I've got.

[@usmc29er44]

Is it hard to get parts?

[@Glenintheden]

@@usmc29er44 , While I haven't done much DIY on the car, whenever I've taken it into the shop, they don't seem to have any trouble finding parts when it needs a new part. I even had a whole new used engine put in last winter and they had a few engines to choose from.

[@skymuffn]

…still love my ‘97 900 Convertible. I’m in CA even with our weather, I only drive her every so often for I inherited a few amazing cars from my Grandparents and a great aunt so the milage is a lot lower at 49K

[@rogerwilco2]

I live the 900NG, but I prefer the old 900 for its immense interior space and great looks, and I prefer the first model 9-3 over the 900NG as it fixed a lot of the problems of the 900NG without altering many of the good things. It has a much higher crash safety rating for example and the handling is also tighter and more direct.

[@Glenintheden]

@@rogerwilco2 , Yes, I would consider a getting a 9-3, but there is one big problem with these old Saabs that I don't think was fixed with the newer ones; they are rather difficult to work on and no shops seem to want to deal with them either anymore. I recently ran into a hard starting issue this past winter with my 900NG that left me stranded at work twice during two cold snaps. I called a couple of local shops that specialize in European cars and both said they don't work on Saabs. So I kept tinkering with it myself after having it towed home. I think I narrowed it down to the idle air control valve and was able to get the car started after the weather warmed and doing much tinkering. Also, as another for instance, it's almost impossible for the diy'r to get at the alternator from above and I don't want to get underneath the car for safety reasons, so I have to hire a shop to do that and it was rather costly when I had the alternator replaced a couple of years ago. So, for my next vehicle I'm leaning towards something more common and easier to work on and if it's over my head any shop will be happy to work on it at a reasonable cost, maybe a domestic car such as Crown Vic or older F150.

[@snbrown100]

Nice to see a Saab at the car wizards. I’m bitter about GMs treatment of Saab though I do think gm did improve the transmissions. It doesn’t feel like a Saab without the 4 cylinder in my humble opinion. As a Saab nut I do counsel others not to get one as the desire to own them is a disease. Less of an issue now they are getting rare.

[@mikem5922]

Was waiting ages for Saab content! Excellent!! Love to see more!

[@5metoo]

I love the GM 3800s. I have 2 of them now. But I'm not sure they could've developed it further given the legislation and competitive pressures of the car industry . The 3800 had great low-end torque, great fuel mileage, and legendary reliability and longevity. But the government demanded more MPG (using arguably unrealistic tests) and the Car & Driver crowd wants a flat torque curve. Moreover, they saved 22 pounds by going from the cast iron block and head 3800 to the all aluminum 3.6. Only 22 pounds! But that meant they could load the car with 22 more pounds of features to fend off the competitors who were adding features. The 3800 was a sweet spot, but the government and competitive pressures made evolving it further impossible. Of course there is also the issue of the 3800 being a 90 degree block, but it was pretty small in fact since cam in block engines are remarkably short and narrow.

[@engineerisengihere44]

Thats something wrong in this video. The high value v6 (3.6) is a 60⁰ v6, its predecessor is the 3900, which before that there was the 3500, 3400, 3100, etc. The 3800 is a 90⁰ v6, it is a completely different design from the GM 60⁰s.

[@collin3800]

​@engineerisengihere44 pretty sure the High Value and High Feature are two separate engine families. The 3500 and 3900 in G6s and Impalas were the the Value engines, where the 3.6 VVT and this 2.8 are the Feature engines.

[@5metoo]

@@MrJMS814 - I know, but it was mentioned in the video. I think an engine with 4 camshafts is inherently problematic for anything but real luxury or high performance cars. The benefits of high flow are obvious, but putting such an engine in a car people expect to last without great maintenance costs is a fail.

[@billm6294]

Imagine a 3800 with the latest direct injection and cylinder head technology like the LT motors. Even more power and fuel economy!

[@elmayimbe5094]

Those early 2.8, 3.0, 3.2 and 3.6's you needed to really use high quality synthetic oil every 3K, not even 5K to keep those tensioners alive.

[@ryannylander1819]

The 2.8s seems to do fine around 3-5k intervals, even when highly modified, without issue. Again, premium quality full syn as mentioned.

[@elmayimbe5094]

@@ryannylander1819, I'm not a mechanic by any stretch of the immagination, but I do work on my own cars. Went to the mechanic for something and he had an early Acadia in there with the motor out. I said timing chain tensioners?! Mechanic looked at me crazy like...how did you know?. I told you I'm not a mechanic, but I know cars.

[@ryannylander1819]

@@elmayimbe5094 hey, I hear ya. With the older acadias, either the tensioners and chairs or it’s the trans on those things! Every stinking time. 😂

[@Nikochicoo]

1. It was designed and manifactured under GM, 2010-2011 It was still owned by GM. Basicly the same car as the Buick Regal 2. Job is about 10 hours, done it three times. But it's cheaper getting a whole engine with turbo, here in europe they are around 3500 euros new

[@XwSScout]

I literally swapped the timing chain on my ng9-3 Aero with the 2.8 2 months ago. Did it through the wheel well and it isn’t as bad as you think. Second time I’ve done it and it took me about 8hours, first time around 12. And that was the first time I worked on a car except for swapping a head gasket and maintenance. There’s plenty of room once u move some coolant pipes etc away.

[@BruceLudwick]

Yeah, but it has a removable liner. This doesn't.

[@asssiesgaming453]

@@BruceLudwickthis has one aswell lmao

[@jordankapsar]

I have a 2011 9-5 aero with 213,500 miles on it. The timing chains were stretched and the previous owner bought it from the auction, fixed em and sold the car to me. It cost the guy $4000 to fix. Its been a fantastic car since ive had it, but the GM really shows. Really happy to own the car though. Don't regret it one bit

[@SuperMcgenius]

I have owned 6 Saabs, my last was a Aero 93. I went for the 2 L and chipped it 245 hp/ 280 torque. The 2 L is easy to work on and lighter with many more parts available.

[@portermcsorley]

I absolutely love the last generation 9-5. It’s such a nice design. Has a nice retro Saab signature roofline, while almost looking modern even today. A 6 speed manual Aero V6 with AWD is a car I’d love to own someday, but sadly they only made a handful.

[@robertanna9964]

They were liquidated at the auction Saab held in Sweden in 2012. You actually could have bought the sport combi and imported it into the US.

[@portermcsorley]

@@robertanna9964 I was 13 years old in 2012…

[@daveullens6517]

@portermcsorley, as far as I know, the 2.8 V was only available with an automatic transmission

[@pistonburner6448]

Well, obviously that car requires mechanics working 9-5!

[@Misaniovent]

I love these cars and have a 2.0T. This is by far the most poorly kept Aero I have ever even seen a picture of, but they are good, interesting cars if taken care of appropriately. Both the 2.0T and 2.8T need preventative timing chain services. If I were the owner of this, I'd probably part it out...the rear lights in particular are worth a significant amount of money, about $1k per side and $2k for the light bar.

[@TheSleepingonit]

Wow

[@DeltaCharlie27]

I have a 2.0t and just bought a 2.8T and didn't know about the timing chain issues - what kind of preventative timing chain services do you recommend?

[@Misaniovent]

@@DeltaCharlie27 The 2.0T is not the same as the 2.0t and the 2.0T in the 9-3s, but I heard some scraping and rattling, took it to the shop, and they replaced the chains and guides. We had to have a machinist remove a broken bolt, too. That's a really common issue if guides are starting to fail. It was all done with the engine in the car and the price was not too crazy considering the work done. My car was driving well with no codes...just a noise.

[@DeltaCharlie27]

thanks, yes, I actually have the 9-3 turbo 4 (2.0T) and now the 2.8 Aero. Everything is running perfectly, but want to make sure it stays that way. Others have recommended diligent oil changes as well! @@Misaniovent

[@wernerdanler2742]

Audi uses the Haldex also. I remember seeing a video on someone servicing one. He said you have to change the fluid in two different places, and most people don't know that, so they end up doing it wrong. That is such a nice-looking car. Why did you not let Mrs. Wizzard give us an interior tour? I really wanted to see it. Does anyone make an improved non-stretch after-market chain for these engines?

[@JohnSmith-pl2bk]

Yes chains after 2012 were hardened OEM.....

[@kennorcott7074]

It’s a shame that the V6’s have their issues because these are very great cars to drive and to look at. I wish we got the wagon version

[@vibingwithvinyl]

I think only ~30 9-5 Wagons were ever made.

[@marknewman9430]

Yes the NG wagon is so good looking. Not sure if there is one in the states or not.

I live in Sweden, and I've only ever seen two of the wagon. Beautiful car though.

[@GoldenCroc]

​@As far as I know, there isnt a single wagon in traffic, anywhere. Are you sure the ones you saw were registered as normal cars?

[@GoldenCroc]

​​@@marknewman9430As far as I have heard, there isnt a single one anywhere, not just in the states. Production line and certification of them never started before they got shutdown. I guess some prototype/preproduction car might be out there, but in that case I wonder if its street legal in europe...

[@BC-eu3ks]

I had a 2002 saab 9-3 se for years. Got hit from behind at a stop light, and it was totaled in 2015. Miss that car. Was an awesome car.

[@Beer_Dad1975]

Same happened to my favorite ever car (Ford G6E Turbo) back in 2020 - every time I see one go by now I think I should get another one - problem is there aren't a lot of them, and they are in demand & hard to find one that is low mileage and unmolested - so are now a lot of money for was is getting to be an old car.

[@lindanelson8400]

When my sister and later her son were looking for a car they asked me (I'm the oldest of my siblings) what they should look for. Obviously I suggested a Toyota. My sister bought an Equinox, and my nephew bought an Acadia. Their cars are out of warranty now and they like telling me, "see, we saved money by not buying a Toyota and we haven't had a problem one". I'm just waiting for the other shoe to fall. They're going to have trouble, I just know it. I don't want to tell them I told you so. Meanwhile I'm still driving my 07 Avalon. Change the oil every three thousand miles, and do the other maintenance according to the owners manual. I've not had a breakdown yet. Love my Toyota.

[@805NAVE]

Avalons are very nice. I have an 05 Lexus ES, basically same car, currently at 314k miles. Never had a problem yet

[@lindanelson8400]

@805NAVE my Avalon only has 92,000 miles. Isn't even time to change the spark plugs yet. I'm keeping it forever.

[@suckmydingledong]

As a mechanic it's all up to the maintenance done by the PO and Current owner. I've had less trouble with my Peugeot 309 than any other car..

[@RobsNeighbor]

I saw this rise and fall of Saab at a dealership. Great video Wizard

[@TonyBasuro]

My mechanic says The LS motor stands for 'Lost Saab" Because the heads look like a Saab motor. So, thank Saab engineers for the greatest small block chevy, at least. This is pure conjecture of course.

[@marcloveall]

My brother in law got me into Saabs. I bought his 2002 9-3 from him, I understand GM owned them at this time but before they actually gutted them and threw GM trash at them (from my understanding) it has almost 180k miles on it and it really has been a great little car and very fun to drive even though i hate FWD cars, it shocked me the first time I drove a Saab as to how nice they drive.

[@BigNews2021]

You got one of the last Saabs to use the Saab H engine and their Trionic engine management control. After the 2003 year model they switched to GM engines and other components.

[@rogerwilco2]

I have basically the same car, a 2001 9-3 Aero. I think those are the best cars that Saab made. Practical interior, easy to drive, good ergonomics, and quick and sporty when you want. Mine is at 330.000km and I still do over 200km/h on the autobahn every now and then, but it handles curvy mountain roads really well to.

[@Anathriel]

That specific model of Saab is pretty rare, only about 10 thousands were made in total across all different versions of it. Even fewer of those were 9-5 Aero's so could be worth the money to fix it. That said it is a niche car, my father has one with the large diesel as an aero with a manual. Lovely car it has done about 205k miles and still runs like new so you can get a lot of life out of them. But there is some weak points, the rear underbody is really badly rust protected, barely anything so it will rust away and fall apart unless sorted out. We had the car gone over at about 198k miles, you couldn't see the damage but it was there. Lovely car to drive tho, probably done about 60k of those miles on it myself, runs really nice on the road and comfy seats.

[@dj_paultuk7052]

Saab actually got the designs for that engine from GM Australia at the time. (Holden). It was then gone through and upgraded for Turbo use. They can be tuned for very high power but yes the Timing chains and the Cyl liners remain a problem.

[@canadiansaabfreak6530]

not sure where you got cylinder liner issues from. That has never been a known problem on any SAAB engine except for the Isuzu 3.0L turbodiesel, and those were only sold in the EU.

[@apefullbarrel108]

I love all your videos. So much to talk about over a beer. Much love brother. I’m a licensed mechanic up in Canada. I get the struggle. Been there done that. Breaks my heart when customers don’t get it, and for the negative bs u must get. Especially from viewers . Love u guys ! Thanks

[@Saab900T]

The 2.8 motor is bulletproof. Most reliable engine ive ever had in a Saab and i kick the shit out of it. Don't trash talk this engine. It wasnt stressed in this application and you can get 300 or 400k on it with stock tune. Timing issues arent common if you keep the oil clean. Fresh plugs and coils.

[@aaryeshg.6526]

In Europe and UK (and probably for rest of the world as well), this engine and AWD system is shared with another car, Opel/Vauxhall Insignia OPC/VXR. It's fast and sporty like the rest of the German equivalents that it rivals, but it has one drawback, it's really heavy, around 1.8 tonnes. For 300 hp its a lot of heft lol.

[@teanshin]

Thats old gen engine, Vectra C had it as well. V6 with turbo, run by 3 timing chains. what can go wrong?

[@kclefthanded427]

At least it has a Aisin 6-speed automatic rather than the crappy GM unit. Still a big job for timing chains regardless

[@TheFatViking]

About 3 weeks ago I bought my first car, a SAAB 9-3 from 1999, I love SAABs. I would have never expected to see Car Wizard post a video about a SAAB only 2 weeks later 😄

[@rogerwilco2]

Congratulations! the first model 9-3 are my favourite. Especially if you have one of the feature rich models like the Aero or the Viggen. I love my 9-3 2001 Aero. Sitting at 300.000, just back from the garage for its yearly checkup and in top shape.

[@peterandersson6654]

As a Saab lover who learned the trade on them i would say its worth fixing it but its always the owners call. My wife had a 9-3 Aero some years ago and ofcourse the chains had to be replaced on it. I decided to do it with the engine in the car and it actually wasnt that bad. If i did one today i would drop the engine though. I hope you get to save this one.

[@patricknesbitt4003]

Judging by what I saw with the condition of that car it's probably a safe assumption that it's seen oil change intervals of 7000 miles or more and likely had low quality oil when it did get changed.

[@JT-qd4jh]

Makes me sad seeing the condition this thing is in. These cars are too rare and sophisticated to be beaters - shame.

[@Vincent-ke5zn]

Thanks to you, I wouldn't buy any vehicle with the GM 3.6 or the Ford 5.4 3 valve engine

[@johnb4183]

I had a Saab '99' that was solid as a rock , ergonomics were incredible. It was a real Saab .

[@jas4925]

The 8 to 10,000 mile oil change recommendation the gm oil life system doesn't help them last.

[@catfishakaAMC]

This is so sad. Such a cool car that's worth fixing from a rarity standpoint, but completely condemned by GM's inability to produce things that work. General Mess at it's best. I wonder if installing a reman engine would be cheaper than tearing this one apart not knowing what you'll find.

[@kennethmelnychuk9737]

Can one find a reman engine for this car now that it is no longer manufactured? Also, can one install an engine that is not a pos GM 3.6L?

[@PhillipFortson]

I will never buy a GM product.

[@rogerwilco2]

@@kennethmelnychuk9737 I know my local Saab shop puts some FIAT engine in these, not sure about any details.

[@southendparaquest]

I'm lucky enough to have a Saab specialist near to where I live. His pearls of wisdom for prospective Saab ownership; avoid anything 'V' !

[@Ben-bs4od]

v?

[@southendparaquest]

@@Ben-bs4od V6. You had the 2.5 V6 petrol and the 3.0 V6 diesel

[@fordTH7335]

Vice grips work great too and are almost always around any shop to hold hood struts

[@BurghAleAddict]

Had an 08 Saab 9-5 with the 2.3T. Man how I miss that car. Was a rocket from 30-80. Top gear actually reviewed this car and found it out-accelerated the Porsche 911 from this same time. Just a great cruising/daily car too. Ultimately it's biggest shortcoming were in its reliability & ability to work on it. It was one thing after another, and a lot of the issues weren't cheap

[@ryannylander1819]

The manuals coupled with that 2.3 engine were awesome… in that you could put more of the power down vs the autos once modded. Plus being able to add a aftermarket LSD was quite sweet too. And yes, they ripped in that mid range…. Passing was always where it was at!

I got the 2001 Aero wagon with a manual. 200.000 miles, and it runs perfectly. There's a lot of rust in the rear wheel wells, though...

[@zzoinks]

​@maybe you should give Chrisfix's diy rust repair video a watch, it might be an interesting and worthwhile diy project to fix!

[@hoppysport2872]

​@The first thing I did when purchasing my 2008 9-5 was taken the plastic off of the wheel wells. That's where the rust starts.

[@johnhinston958]

Had a 97 9000aero with 2.3 turbo. 100 pounds lighter than the 9-5 and ran like the wind .my favorite car of all time

[@scottimusgarrett15]

Too bad that GM murdered SAAB.😢 Thanks, Mr. and Mrs. Wizard, for another entertaining (yet ultimately depressing) episode! ✌️❤️🙂🇨🇦

[@labourlawact7826]

GM themselves are rubbish.

[@julianbrelsford]

I was lucky enough to ride in (and drive) a 1980s Saab that belonged to my friend. The Saab 900 turbo from the pre-GM era was a really cool car.

[@waterzap99]

Gm didn't kill Saab. Saab management killed Saab. If they weren't in such a bad shape they would not have been sold to gm.

[@LongIslandMopars]

​@@waterzap99That's right. It's a shame Saab let themselves get to a point where GM bought them. Kind of like when Ford bought a stakes in Volvo and Jaguar.

[@normt430]

​@@labourlawact7826Saab had it's best sales year in 2004 under GM. They were ahead of Audi with SUVs.

[@SuperDirk1965]

Bought my last Saab just before Saab were taken over by GM. Never bought another one because I wanted a Saab, not an Opel.

[@GH-oi2jf]

I know what you mean about Saab being ruined by GM, but I am ok with Opel, which GM owned for a very long time. My first-gen Cruze is is an Opel (they were the lead designers), and it has been a good car at an affordable price. I think GM made a mistake selling Opel recently.

[@WilliamHaisch]

4:33 Thank you for showing the three timing chains. My mechanic told me my Traverse 3.6L V6 had three timing chains and I just couldn’t picture it.

[@TEC_Stuff]

I would venture a guess that the lack of proper exhaust gas pressure from the hacked off mufflers is not helping with the car throwing engine codes.

[@rogerwilco2]

Indeed.

[@Freighttrain-yd4fz]

When ever I hear gm 3.6, I think junk. The fatal flaw of these engines are the oil fed timing chain tensioners that NEED good oil flowing through them to work properly. But unfortunately 99% of people do not keep up with the regular oil changes resulting in timing chain failure. There have been a few cases I have heard of these engines getting to 200,000 but that was only because of they changed the oil like they should have. The fact is the 3800 was to good for Gm and they wanted an engine that would be cheaper to produce and break a LOT more often, more money for them. They knew that people don't change their oil regularly enough so and they took full advantage of it, GM does not care about people and what it will do to their bank account. They just want you're money plain and simple.

[@Solo-vs2vk]

I work at an oil change place and I see Chevys come in every day with no oil on the dip stick, they’re complete junk. You’re correct the owners suck too, they all do 7 to 10k oil change intervals

[@Beer_Dad1975]

Same with pretty much all automotive manufacturers now - they have all bought hard into the planned obsolescence school of capitalism and want you to buy a new car every 3-5 years and the old car to end up on the junk pile as soon as possible after that.

[@DFX4509B]

To be fair to GM, at least the 4.3 LV1/LV3 V6 should be as reliable as the Gen V V8 platform on which it's based, also, I would think the LV3 would've been a better match to the Traverse/Enclave/Acadia both for the pushrod design being more compact and thus theoretically easier to fit in a transverse layout than a DOHC design like the 3.6 HFV6 uses, and since the LV3 is torque-biased, it would've made easier work of moving those SUVs' 5k-lb girth around. As an added bonus, the LV1 deletes AFM vs. the LV3.

[@philbrutsche8928]

99% of these problems are caused by insufficient oil changes, poor quality oil, or both. I'm pretty sure these things use Direct Injection, which will just make extended oil change intervals even worse.

[@DFX4509B]

@@philbrutsche8928 Early HF engines (eg. the 3.6 LY7, any of the 2.8s) were port-injected. Alfa's variant of the 3.2 was DI though, but as far as GM is concerned, DI didn't come into the picture for that engine lineup until the 3.0 LF1, and didn't get equipped on 3.6s until the LLT going off the wiki.

[@Aardvark49]

Pretty easy to see what happened to Saab #1: Owner drove the car into the dirt and did no service. It’s toast. Crusher comes on Tuesday.

[@JohnSmith-pl2bk]

Replace engine with a good parts engine. Cheaper than an overhaul. Now original engine is out, replace chains with hardened OEM ones (hardened as OEM after 2012). Replace parts engine with overhauled one when necessary...

[@Tomservoca]

I had a 1980 900 Turbo from new. Paid cash and drove it off the show room floor. Had it for 12 years and about 100K miles. It was was a blast to drive, fast, comfortable, and roomy. I always lamented when GM took it over. They ruined the brand.

[@mlieser1230]

My first SAAB was an 80 900 Turbo. Engine had a bad turbo and a rod knock. I rebuilt the engine and 5 speed transmission. Drove that car for years. The 79-93 (94 Convertible) were the pinnacle of SAAB. I've was involved with SAABs as a tech and later parts counterperson from 87-97.

[@rogerwilco2]

I prefer the first model 9-3, but the classic 900 is my second favourite Saab model. Such a great marriage of utility, ergonomics and fun to drive.

[@michiganman4398]

My wife had a 9-3. That thing was an absolute nightmare to work on. The electrical system was insane how it was wired.

[@o_o-_-8639]

If I could, I would buy this saab and fix it, sure it isn’t much saabness to it and the v6 has a lot of issues, but these are rarer and rarer, sad too see this happening to this 9-5 😞.

[@rogerwilco2]

Indeed. This was always a rare car and will likely be very very rare soon.

[@madrew2003]

Yup. Run away screaming from ANY of the high feature GM V6s! The auto transmissions coupled to the AWD platforms are problematic as well.

[@ryannylander1819]

The 08+ I believe got a revamped Valve Body. Very few complaints from 08 on with the Aisin Auto. Quite powerful too in taking high hp and TQ figures. Change the oil in those boxes too with the correct oil, and it’s not the same oil used in the 5 speeds in the 9-5 2.3 aero aisin boxes.

[@justmy2cents_]

Gm really had an opportunity to compete directly with the likes of BMW, Mercedes and Audi but instead they ruined it by cutting corners & being less adventurous with Saab unfortunately! I owned an original 1997 Saab 9000 cse turbo 5 spd & it was one of the toughest vehicles I've owned until it got totalled being rear-ended on the interstate! Saabs were always considered quirky for their odd designs & interior features like the ignition being in the center armrest area & their ac vent design, cup holder,rearseat fold down ability & their turbo engine's which all added to their appeal along with a very comfortable & quiet ride! My 9000 could surely move out when pressed with that high output turbo! GM didn't think this process through entirely & the brand suffered two losses! Rip Saab you certainly deserved better!

[@roberts.3712]

If it wasn't for their size and the stupid U.S. government bailing them out GM should have been history by now. Courtesy of the U.S. taxpayer.

[@markleggett3944]

The thanks we get is more of the same.

[@jdrancho1864]

The $50 000 was the sticker price. Before long, dealers were discounting them by 50 percent to as low as the mid-twenties, just to get rid of a car that had no backing from GM or Saab.

[@brycem0]

Australia got this via the Holden Commodore. Heard one coming down the street and it sounded like the engine was trying to self-destruct itself....

[@oscargeorge1]

An attractive design, let down by GM in every other way. On the other side, this car seems to have been abused.

[@markcieslikowski2284]

So one of my 2.8 AEROs has 177,000 miles and my other one has 155,000.... Both run Great.... when should I expect problems??? 250,000??

[@Sirius90125]

at any time

[@claytonhayball4718]

if your oil change history is over 10k intervals . They sludge up and stretch the chain if oil not frequently changed. Same issue with same motor in Commodores in aus

[@markcieslikowski2284]

Clayton, Thanks ... Yes oil should be changed ... I do the same in all my cars. I have put another 5,000 miles on each Aero... so far so good!

[@marcf6806]

I’m glad that all of my Saabs are pre-GM, before the company was gutted. 1973 Sonett III 1990 900 turbo convertible 1997 9000 Aero

[@Rekuzan]

You could always drive it off a cliff in Alaska on the 4th of July...

[@merrillfrank5428]

The turbo-4 engine in the 9-3 and 9-5 is far more reliable and easier to work on than the 3.0 turbo V6 in this or the 2.8 turbo that was an option on the 9-3 Aero. The 2.8 in the 9-3 is fairly tight, to the point where excessive heat can impact the brake master cylinder and booster. Otherwise these are great cars, even for GM since they are based on the Opel platform. There was an interesting theory discussed on TTAC when Saab was flailing around and GM was trying to get rid of it. The theory was that GM wanted a European brand to compete with Lexus and BMW so why not just buy the shares of Saab. What they failed to realize was that they already had upscale brands with a few models such as Cadillac and Opel that filled that niche. I always thought Subaru should have purchased them since they were already building the 9-2 model based on the Impreza. They could have marketed them as an upscale Subaru.

[@nekite1]

I had two og Saab 9-5 cars - a 150 bhp 2.0 SE and a 2.3 Aero. Superb engineering and both total highway mile munchers. Really comfortable and built like tanks. The Aero went like a stabbed rat when needed. Embarassed a few BMWs and Mercs on the highway.

[@normt430]

I had two 2000 9-5 Aero's, one wagon and one sedan. The sedan had Stg lll Nordic tune would stay with an 2000 M5 from 100 mph on up! Fun car!

[@nuttycommuter3718]

Unfortunately I couldn’t get an Aero with the mileage I wanted when I bought my 2.3 9-5, but I have since swapped the turbo for a TD04, the brakes for aero spec, the suspension for aero springs/bilstein dampers and put in a D088 intercooler and then had it all re-mapped to make it work well together. It can be scary fast when it wants to be.

[@magnusfranzonuvebrant9519]

Never seen that model in Sweden. I bought my 5th SAAB two years ago, a 2002 Swedish 9 5 with 250.000 miles on it. I am the second owner and about to break 280.000 miles. Love 9 5.

[@nigellopez6410]

I've been waiting for a SAAB. I have an 02' 9-5 linear w/ mods and 117k. Love it. I think the best are 01' to 05'. Maybe I'll drive it through Kansas when I move to Texas next year.

[@notsolegitgarage2967]

I’ve always wanted this car

[@kobra6660]

Saab was a great reliable company untill gm ruined them

[@shadowthesi]

SAAB ruined themselves by running themselves into bankruptcy. GM actually saved SAAB and kept it going for longer than it would have otherwise.

[@1jbunceiii]

My parents had a 1980 Saab 900 turbo with a stick shift, was white with lime green interior....had its issues with turbos going. But loved it as a kid.

[@steveshoemaker6347]

Well it is just a Sad Saab story.....Thanks Wizard & Wife 👍 Old Shoe🇺🇸

[@christurner6430]

A sad Saab sob story even....?

[@igorgrebenevich428]

I have a 2009 9-3 aero with the 2.8 with 185k miles and various people on Facebook with over 250k miles. The timing chain issues boil down to did people change the oil on time and did they use premium gas as required.

[@mikem5922]

Agreed, my 2.8 9-3 Aero always got 5k oil changes and premium fuel at half a tank. I sold it at 200k just because I wanted something new. Amazing car. Fast and smooth.

[@canadiansaabfreak6530]

nailed it. Those 2.8s hate late oil changes and regular gas.

[@ryannylander1819]

Spot on. Low interval changes with high quality oil. These Saabs love it. They will last if the engine hasn’t been neglected.

[@znorc]

25 hrs and engine out? No way. The Saab-specified time for changing the chains is 7.8 hrs and it's with the engine still in the car. I'm not a professional mechanic and I've done this on a 9-5 I had a few years ago. There's PLENTY of room to do the chains with the engine still in place. With that said, I'm glad a Saab finally shows up on this channel. It was long overdue.

[@user-zl4kj1vz7f]

GM wanted to build Saab down to a price and cut down on long term quality and safety. Ford did the same thing to Volvo - engine and parts quality went down the crapper in order to make loads of profit which backfired on them badly. In western Europe there's a saying -"If you want to destroy a great and reliable car brand -then let the Americans buy it".

[@marcinboo]

I owned a 2006 9-3 for 14 years. 4 cylinder turbo with stick shift. Loved that thing.

[@WildWhiteFang]

So I came across a 2008 Saab 9-3 aero convertible with the 2.0 turbo with 54,000 milesfor 6000$? Is that a good price for that car?

[@mikeeyg1977]

2.0T is a good engine and barley broken in with those miles.

[@tpwman801]

That's a good price. 08 Aeros only have the 2.8 V6 though, make sure of the engine. If it is not a aero, and is a 2.0, make sure to do a cold compression test before buying, since 07-10 2.0 engines sometimes had faulty intake valves that cost $$$ to fix.

[@EdsonMKingKarzo]

just reached 190k yesterday on my b207r no mechanical problems at all, its a good deal.

[@unicorn_vhixx]

Second comment is correct

[@laurat1129]

Depending on the condition of the car otherwise (does it have repair records, and does the cv top work?)… I’d bring it to a mechanic who knows Saabs (plenty still out there), then go for it.

[@janibeg3247]

I almost purchased a Saab but then a friend told me that her Saab spent more time in the shop than on the road.

[@CrimeVid]

I have a friend who has one as his everyday driver, a 9-3 sport combi. The only problems it has had so far is electronic ancilliary gagets becoming obsolete, like the GPS and music centre. That car was and is magic !

I'm living in Sweden running a 2001 Saab 9-5 Aero 2,3T with 320,000 km (200.000 miles). that's a wonderful engine. It's still pushing 250hp and they should have stuck to it. I also drive the wizard's other favorite, Ford F-150 with the 3 valve 5.4 Triton. Great truck, I love it, but I'm super worried about it getting the phazer issues or valve issues.

[@JohnSmith-pl2bk]

Oil, oil, oil. Change the oil regularly if not obsessively...

@@JohnSmith-pl2bk That's the plan. It's quiet now at 100.000 miles. And the entire truck is in great shape.

[@CheshireTomcat68]

If you buy a Saab, you know how to fix cars. Very satisfying to keep them going. A Fiat engine on a GM platform is a challenge for a grown up. That more modern thing you have, god knows.

[@cinthe3]

I always wanted a 9-5 wagon. Glad I never pulled the trigger.

[@Vincent-ke5zn]

My brother talked me into buying a POS SAAB and it turned out garbage

[@cinthe3]

@@Vincent-ke5zn dang, sorry you had to waste on it. They sure were interesting, but not long lasting

[@Vincent-ke5zn]

@@cinthe3 you learn from your mistakes and experience, the school of hard knocks

[@grahamcutress47]

Is it weird that i needed your voiceover, it was getting late and the minimal sounds coming from my telebox meant i kept dropping off... i dont know how to say this other than your dulcet tones keep me away 😂😂

[@jrfish007]

I had a 2006 Saab 9-3 that blew a strut under warranty. Took it to Saab and they had to call Sweden to figure which strut to put in it. Apparently there were 23 different struts for that year and you couldn’t track it down with the vin alone. They actually took the strut part way out to read the top of it so they could order it, put the bad strut back in the car so I could drive it while we waited the 4-6 weeks for the new one to come in.

[@BruceLudwick]

For what it's worth, esaabparts has fixed a lot of that. You just do a VIN search and it's pretty easy. Or, just do Bilstein B4s and be done with it.

[@josueelombre931]

Is it even worth buying any Saab nowadays?

[@canadiansaabfreak6530]

All I own are Saabs. between the 2 I have now, they have 700000 km collectively.

[@pistonburner6448]

No, because people who own the remaining ones still value them so you can't get them cheap enough for what they are, parts supply and their price can be an issue, etc. etc.

[@sammolloy1]

I believe a 900 with a 16v non turbo would be a good car. The image is not one I’d feel comfortable portraying. But if the shoe fits, by all means wear it

[@shadowthesi]

Everyone claims that GM ruined SAAB, however no one asks why GM acquired SAAB in the first place. SAAB went BUST! SAAB ran themselves into the ground and GM actually bailed them out. SAAB would have died in the 90s without GM.

[@lillexus5589]

Strange how people only get to hear one side of the story indeed, Saab was pretty much doomed even before the take over.

[@TorquilMcLeod]

Exactly. GM was then forced to sell the brand as a condition of the 2008 bancrupcy bail out.

[@laurat1129]

@@TorquilMcLeod And the reason they got rid of Saab (and Pontiac)... Buick is big in China.

[@atticman4275]

Sweden suffered from an economic downturn too during the 90s, so they also offloaded a lot of its assets like Volvo too.

[@robertanna9964]

I actually rented a 9-3 diesel in 2009 while traveling in Europe. It was sublime, even in the dead of winter. I always thought it was such a shame we couldn't get them here in the US.

[@lawy3077]

Had two OG 9-5s that were great. 2.3T was 🔥

[@newcarpathia9422]

They only sold 50 of this generation in Canada. Good luck finding parts for that if you were to do it here! I had a 2007 9-5 Aero. I called it the psychotic girlfriend. When it was fun, it was loads of fun. When it was not, it was scary. I had it up until it was 12 years old and by that time, at 200,000 kms, and it was a repair a month by that time. I sold it when the first problem I had with it reappeared. "Oh no," I thought. "I'm starting all over again." Some of the design choices on that thing... yeesh. They put the air filter under the front bumper, which you had to partially disassemble to get to it.

[@labourlawact7826]

Gosh, that's terrible. I bought a new Nissan Sunny in 2000, and it now has 450 000km ,and runs like new. 😊 No rust, doesn't burn oil, and still in mint condition. Mind you, this car was built before the fatal merger with the rubbish Renault brand.

[@newcarpathia9422]

@@labourlawact7826 Oh yes, you couldn't pay me to get a Nissan these days. I have a Hyundai Elantra NLine now. That 7-speed DCT transmission is a bit of a wild card. I hope it holds up. For now, it's a hoot to drive.

[@labourlawact7826]

@@newcarpathia9422 Yeah, I'd be a bit cautious with the DCT. Fortunately, I only drive manual transmission cars, like most people here in South Africa. Good luck with the Elantra. 😁👍🏻🙋🏼‍♂️

[@newcarpathia9422]

@@labourlawact7826 For the record, I do not regret for one second buying that Saab. I also don't regret selling it. It was fun while it lasted. :) For the Elantra, sadly, they only sold the manual in the USA, not Canada. Could I have gone down there and gotten a manual? Yes. Would have cost a lot more. I did the numbers. The Canadian Elantra NLine has more features and costs $4500 less. Go figure.

[@labourlawact7826]

@@newcarpathia9422 😁👍🏻