This Scene Encapsulates Everything Wrong With Iron Man 3

When Iron Man 3 first hit theaters, it had a lot to live up too. Not only was the MCU moving along at a high rate of speed, but the Iron Man Franchise was at a turning point after the middling reception to Iron Man 2. Marketing a showdown with a storied comic villain in The Mandarin, fans couldn't be more excited. But one scene in particular quickly diminished any speculation that Iron Man 3 would be a turning point in the MCU.
#ironman #mcu #nerdstalgic
Written by Dave Baker
Edited by Paul Ritchey

[@archive6094]

Fun Fact: The idea that Happy's favorite television show is Downton Abbey was at the suggestion of Jon Favreau, who is actually a big fan of the series

[@patrickmcguire7896]

I also appreciate it cause I’m also a Downton Abbey fan

[@antona.1327]

Jon Favreau should've suggested to the director on how to make a good Iron Man movie, would much rather prefer that.

[@benwasserman8223]

Yeah… I still really enjoy Iron Man 3. Like the whole “fake America’s perception of terrorism to get away with your real agenda” twist- definitely held up well this past decade.

[@ottomattix86]

Maybe in a serious film. Not one messing with fans.

[@corbans5796]

It could have been really good if it had been executed well... which it was not.

[@timskully3496]

i somehow agree with all these comments

[@pezzz182]

Ok well this ain't a fucking Michael Moore movie bruh

[@Foreignerlin91]

But what about the actual terrorism that is out there? Not just the fake perception of it

[@zachryder3150]

The second trailer where it seemed the villain would actually be intimidating and unhinged was by far the best part of the film.

[@corbans5796]

Same with age of ultron lol

[@travistotle]

The first time you realize that The Mandarin is a fraud and a goofball was great for a chuckle because it was so unexpected and it subverted your expectations, but on further viewings, it kinda ruins the movie because they had nowhere interesting to go after that. That only works if you have an even more interesting villain to take his place, which Iron Man 3 doesn't. It reminded me of when they killed off Snoke in Last Jedi and it blew my mind, "They're killing off the big bad in the SECOND movie??!! I can't imagine where they're going from here!!!!" Unfortunately, it soon became clear that the writers & directors didn't either 😕

[@mikenolan73]

@@travistotle Yeah the Trevor reveal is funny in the moment but then the rest of the film just reverts to type and Tony faces off against yet another tech villain who has a long standing grudge against Stark over some perceived slight. The initial portrayal of the Mandarin made the film seem much more interesting as it suggested Tony would confront a villain entirely outside his normal "wheelhouse" of tech villains with a previous history with Stark.

[@GoldenBred]

@@travistotle based

[@MyZ001]

@@mikenolan73 Also, I liked the idea of Iron Man, a scifi/fantasy hero, taking on a real/current world threat. But, nah. Let it really be the guy who breaths fire cause he got his feelings hurt because he got ghosted by a billionaire😆

[@shangerdanger]

it's the plot from incredibles lol. kid gets rejected and is obsessed with revenge against a superhero that denied him.

[@Kanoog]

The main difference is Incrediboy worked and he worked well, this bait and switch for Iron Man is just god aweful hahah.

[@drifter4training]

And also kinda plots from dark knight rises and lethal weapon..

[@Natta44]

Also exact same plot for Mysterio in Spiderman Far from home, even did the big unveil 🙄

[@anon4854]

​@@drifter4training Because Shane Black hasnt ever had an original thought. He's best known for writing a buddy cop film in the heyday of buddy cop films.

[@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan]

@@anon4854 He didn't write 'a' buddy cop movie, he wrote 'the' buddy cop movie

[@miniair]

Killian wasn't upset he didn't get investment money from Stark, he was upset Stark just blew him off completely and made him wait on the roof like a fool completely embarrassing him and making him feel worthless.

[@chideraalexanderdex547]

So.....? He should have gotten over that by now It's not really that big a deal

[@Lil_Valor]

@@chideraalexanderdex547 what may not be deemed as a big deal to you could mean everything to another person

[@shripadreddy4852]

Bruh he never took the official appointment with Tony Stark, he just met him at the party. Lol

[@chideraalexanderdex547]

@@Lil_Valor yeah but it's still poor character motivation. Random people who go up to billionaires and successful men with ideas they have that they should invest in usually get similar or worse responses. Tony's was just extra cruel to tell the guy to go wait for him on the roof and not realizing that this particular guy was most likely going to believe him and most likely stay up there quite awhile before getting what should have been obvious from the start. That's on Tony but to decide to dedicate yourself to killing the guy is beyond too far, it's absurd. Especially since he is a successful businessman now and Tony has been through hell since then, he has no reason to not just let it go. He is arguably better off at the start of the main story than Tony so what else does he need? It's why it's hard to buy the guy as a legitimate villain. His motivation is baseless. What kind of normal guy devotes his entire life to messing you up because you obnoxiously turned his fairly sketchy business offer(his highly informal approach during Tony's leisure time isn't exactly professional) down about a decade ago

[@chideraalexanderdex547]

@@shripadreddy4852 exactly

[@johnsidney4147]

10 years ago, I would have 100% agreed with you. Over time, and after a few rewatches, this movie is nowhere near as bad as people say it is. It's not a masterpiece or anything, but it is a good movie. And I still contend that the problem with the Mandarin twist isn't the twist itself, but the actual scene of the reveal. The twist itself is actually brilliant, but even after this movie has grown on me, I still hate the scene, and I think if the scene wasn't so poorly handled, people wouldn't have crapped on the reveal, myself included.

[@dericplummer9272]

I think the twist and the reveal actually work pretty well. The problem I think is that Guy Pierce just feels really bland as the actual villian. If the movie gave us a character that was actually better the Ben Kingsley as the Mandarin it would have been great but Guy Pierce just felt like a step down.

[@travistotle]

I don't even think the movie is overtly all that hated, it has quite a bit of fans. It's just one of the more divisive movies in the MCU, there are people that really love it and people that hate it. I kind of have the opposite feeling to you though about the twist: I think the twist IS the problem, but the actual scene itself is pretty funny just because you don't see it coming at all. The twist itself is the problem because they didn't have anywhere interesting to go after that. If the Mandarin gave way to an even more interesting villain, people would almost universally love the movie. Instead, Guy Pearce's character is just bland, his motivations are flimsy, and he's just not compelling.

[@officialmonarchmusic]

If it weren't played for a joke, then it wouldn't have gotten on so many people's nerves. If the Mandarin guy wasn't a goofball, the scene wouldn't have felt like such a slap in the face

[@Kanoog]

@@officialmonarchmusic Now you make sense, I'm not over looking a bait and switch 10 years later because "Oh now it isn't so bad". As a long time Iron Man fan finally excited to see the Mandarin who turns out is just a bait and switch to a SNL skit, it's still F'n BAD. It's like a horrible prank if you ask me. Because it ruined the experience of Iron Man and the entire build up. This movie could have been memorable but now it's easy to forget.

[@officialmonarchmusic]

@@Kanoog Actually I am not a comic reader and wasn't TOO bothered by it myself, but it hurt the movie. I am just pointing out part of how it is a problem. How great of a problem it is... that's up for everyone to decide for themselves

[@silentbrothers1]

I think it was great for Tony's character arch. I think Tony couldn't have been the mentor to peter without the growth of this movie but also... Yeah like he had more character things to resolve that would have been amazing if they introduced the real Mandarin here. And although I think Ben Kingsley was hilarious here and in the ten rings, I feel like a better ending should have been a real villain that has tony basically face himself and his past.

[@MegaVidFan1]

For once, I disagree. I found that the Mandarin being a fake villain *deepens* Tony's struggles and strife. Wouldn't it be easy to have one single Big Bad Mandarin who Tony could nuke and save everyone? No, it can't be that easy. The real villain was literally created by Tony's direct arrogance and sin, sin which was still a large driving factor in the events of Iron Man 1. I think that Killian being the Mandarin, while yeah it does divert the comic story, makes Tony's story complete. He didn't start a terrorist organization, he created monsters.

[@Nick-up5wv]

That's what they were going for. However that's NOT what was delivered.

[@Yasuk3]

I've never had this take on the movie. I just saw it as everyone was ready to pin blame for attacks on foreign people not knowing the real terrorist was amongst us. And Killian was a perfect foil for Tony because he showed that a) that's what Tony could've been and b) how many other weapon businesses and the military were ready to step their game up

[@Rough_Estimates]

I still love *normal* man 3. It drove home it's not the suit it's the man.

[@edzim10]

Iron Man 3 was amazing, it perfectly showed Tony was Iron man not just the suit. And that reveal was for the best seeing what happened with Shang Chi

[@ryanhatesgirls]

Amazingly boring.

[@zaczane]

I would also add that the reveal wasn’t for “just a joke” it was planned out as a Gotcha!. And All Hail the King was more than Likely planned ahead of time which shows that.

[@ryanhatesgirls]

@@zaczane the director, Shane Black, said in an interview that most of the one-shot is a response to audience backlash. It wouldn't have been made if not for the backlash. So I'd say it you're just pretty wrong here

[@zaczane]

@@ryanhatesgirls oh okay well I never saw that interview. And if so that’s sad because it worked so well either way.

[@brokenregistry]

It was mid when I first saw it in theaters. But as the years go by, I consider it as an underrated MCU gem.

[@irem8513]

I agree with how twist affects the third act in general but I absolutely adore the twist itself. Mandarin in his original comic depiction is a terribly aged villain with serious racist prejudices. The white American play-for-the-cameras guy being the actual villain with an agenda only ages better as the years go by. And Tony's internal conflicts and emotional struggle still hold up in my opinion, especially considering Tony's entire arc in MCU. And Ben Kingsley is just so good as Trevor. Great video as always though, love to see different takes!

[@SmexyAsianGirls]

But that’s the thing, they pulled off the character without the racist prejudices before they turned him into a punchline. If that were the case where they felt he is too much of a stereotype, then they shouldn’t have used his character at all.

[@Theraot]

I believe the Ten Rings is the problem. The Ten Rings terrorist organization was established in the first Iron Man movie. And I bet you that any comics fans wanted actual Ten Rings with mystical powers, and a villain that uses them. When they used the name Mandarin without any of that, it signaled wasted narrative potential. At least in that sense All Hail The King and Shang-Chi did good on it. And to a degree the Avengers tie-in comic by using the Ten Rings as the excuse for War Machine not appearing in the Avengers movie.

[@DamonCzanik]

I feel that Iron Man 3 was a huge missed opportunity. They should have done a bit on "The Demon in a Bottle" storyline and have his PTSD drive him to being a full blown alcoholic as he deals with the trauma. Disney would never show one their heroes be addicted to any drugs because they're heroes. But I'd argue that's exactly why it SHOULD be shown. To show, these people are human, that they're not even perfect (just like us), and to show the terrible price that addiction can take on you, friends and family. A real teachable moment was lost. Robert Downey Jr. had his own battles with addiction, so he is a great person to portray it. It allows for wonderful real acting moments. And like most of us, we see Tony Stark's biggest enemy isn't the Mandarin, but himself. If he becomes an addict it robs him of his ability to effectively use the suit, it strips away his genius, destroys his confidence, and you see a pathetic man in need of help. It's a more memorable, and better villain than old hot hands. The only villain to defeat Tony is Tony. Sure, you can have the a big bad to defeat at the end (it is a Marvel movie after all) but the real villain would ne the one he already defeated. We didn't need a scifi bullshit techno virus killing him, we didn't need hot hands McGee, and we didn't need a British fake terrorist. We needed something real. We needed something that took everything away from him, without him realizing it. We needed... the demon in a bottle.

[@desert_hunter83]

Disney would have never allowed that 😒 but it would of been great to see in live action.

[@Xehanort10]

Tony dealing with how Avengers 1 affected him is out of place in a film where a supposed dangerous terrorist is just a drunk actor and the main villain is a vengeful nerd. Instead of finding a balance between seriousness and comedy and jokes that are actually funny the MCU writers think having a few serious moments in what are otherwise bad comedies is enough.

[@CosmicMapping]

Absolutely love Iron Man 3. Total fun rompfest with a heart and appeal to subversion. Love it

[@Elohist2009]

I agree with this 💯; Killian would’ve made a much more surprising mini boss to get in Stark’s way, leaving “The Mandarin” to escape, perhaps even for a future movie?

[@Fanciest-Hobo]

The twist would've worked 10 times better if Killian wasn't so underwhelming as a villain. Nothing against the actor but Ben Kingsley as the Mandarin was CHILLING. Like Heath Ledger's Joker good! And they bait and switch this terrifying presence that invokes the fear of terrorism for a business man with dragon tattoos

[@Omsmitten]

The Mandarin's build up didn't amount to nothing because of that scene. Everything that we thought the Mandarin was doing, and everything he believed was actually just Aldrich Killian's actions and beliefs. Effectively the scene reveals that Trevor was just the face of the Mandarin and the actual Mandarin was Killian. Honestly I think the reveal was supposed to show that a terrorist isn't always the arab-looking guy with the beard, but it could be the white guy with all the money.

[@XionLuis]

Iron Man 3 was bad? yes. But waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than anything marvel disney's been producing lately

[@Zombiesnyder13]

This is why I hate the MCU They turn everything into a joke

[@Comicbroe405]

Love Iron Man 3. Will always be an underrated gem imo.

[@pirateg3cko]

Amen.

[@scotteous]

Agree, my favorite of the trilogy.

[@demotional95]

💯

[@arnavtalwani_]

Personally, I don't think the Mandarin reveal makes everything "not matter," instead it serves to show that we never truly know who's pulling the strings, thereby adding to the whole discussion on American politics. Everyone *thinks* the Mandarin is Trevor Slattery, but he's really Killian, who's actually using the title of Wenwu. It's not an abandonment of that theme, but rather another perspective on it.

[@ApexPredator1000]

I remember playing Marvel Ultimate Alliance, and discovering the Mandarin villain - and all his power and lore. The 10 rings of power, the giant mech Ultimo, and being Stark's no.1 villain - described as having imprisoned him so many times that he started to forward his mail there. So when he was announced as the villain for IM3 - I was really hyped. I wanted to see Iron Man face off against his greatest personal threat, with powers he couldn't understand, and the personal conflicts such a villain would create, especially if they let him live on afterwards. The first half of the film, as you stated, really added into it. He was intimidating- the idea of him coming for Tony's home, just because he could, was powerful. But the twist takes that all away, as if making fun of the fans of that villain. Not only that, but takes away the momentum for the rest of the film AND undermines the cool scenes from the beginning. There are some great ideas in the film, but I can't bring myself to even rewatch it. Had the potential to be the best Iron Man, but easily my worst. Even with Shang chi; Mandarin was okay, a downgrade from his comic roots, but well portrayed otherwise. But it didn't matter because his archnemesis was dead, and they killed him off at the end anyway...

[@CrisisghostOM]

You put into words the feelings I had about the movie. It did have great things but that reveal and last part really made it a bad movie in my eyes since the first time after watching it.

[@bnkumar8836]

Yes! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 the Mandarin was supposed to a mental villain who exposed Stark’s hypocrisy of his contributions to the war effort. The fact that the movie made it look like the Mandarin was recruiting wounded soldiers was scary. I was beyond angry when I realized that more than half of the movie didn’t matter. Ben Kingsley’s Mandarin villain could have been iconic 🔥

[@getschwifty5537]

Well, there was still in fact a villain recruiting wounded soldiers...

[@Carabas72]

The Mandarin actually was recruiting wounded soldiers and actually does expose Stark’s hypocrisy. Your problem here is that the Mandarin was played by Guy Pearce and wasn't some Fu Manchu kind of character. The entirety of the movie matters.

[@bnkumar8836]

@@Carabas72 You’re right, he was actually recruiting. But I have no problem if it was Guy Pearce or someone else playing the mandarin. I dont want a fu Manchu caricature cuz that’s gross. my problem is the emotional whiplash that the villain was not who he was and the stakes didn’t matter. The villain was once again another tech villain ugh! I was hoping to see a villain who Iron Man couldn’t just easily punch his way through. Initially the movie looked promising like a battle of ideas, then it turned out to be another smash em cash em Disney movie.

[@bnkumar8836]

@@getschwifty5537 yep you’re right that was a typo. Good catch! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@Carabas72]

@@bnkumar8836 The Mandarin is a tech villain. His rings haven't been magic in ages. Also, Killian was not a villain Tony could just punch. That's not how it went in the movie. The Mandarin in the comics on the other hand, very punchable, usually. I am not really getting what you wanted out of this that wasn't in the movie. A movie that does not have any kind of plot twist? good luck with that.

[@stevendorsey4850]

5:19 -- _"The film actually does this alot. It likes to punctuate dramatic beats with jokes to soften the blow of a--frankly--serious and mature subject matter it deals with."_ You've perfectly described almost the entire MCU in one line. It's why I don't like it as much as I used to.

[@danielleblanc4660]

Iron Man 3 is one of the best Marvel movies, but that’s just me.

[@ryanhatesgirls]

Literally, just you

[@MNSweet]

I got you. Iron Man 3 and it's portrayal of the mental anguish of an anxiety/panic attack (difficult things, but they look similar) was very accurate and was nice to have in such a major movie. It's my favorite Iron Man movie for it.

[@whitehatstudios3616]

Actually a lot of people including myself

[@trentc7329]

@@ryanhatesgirls It is really good.

[@ryanhatesgirls]

@@trentc7329 good at being dull

[@cgarciahfcu]

IM3 didn't bother me because I didn't know much about the Mandarin, so I enjoyed the twist. But I do understand those fans who were bothered by it. I'm a fan of Batman, so I'd be angry too if they pulled the same twist with Joker.

[@rottensquid]

I mean, I'm all for variations. Heath Ledger's Joker is strikingly different than anything we've seen in comics, but that was his greatest strength, that he rebuilt the character from the ground up, rather than copying something already formed. But yeah, the way the Mandarin was built here was a tragic mistake that undercut the whole film, and the character. I get what they were going for. Had Ben Kingsley's Mandarin been what he seemed, he would have been a one-dimensional villain, a reductionist take on Osama Bin Laden, without enough insight into the world that creates a figure like Bin Laden. But turning a real-world villain like that into a comic book supervillain opens up a huge can of worms, the biggest, fattest one being bigotry against anyone remotely Muslim. Maybe a movie could have handled that with sensitivity, but not this movie. So I totally understand the choice of making this Mandarin a staged character designed around American fear and prejudice. But the choice of turning him into Trevor Slattery was the slap in the face, undercutting all he tension of the film so far with a cheap joke. And replacing Ben Kingsley's impressive supervillain with Guy Pierce's routine one took the wind from the movie's sails. Aldrich Killian, nerdy underdog turned handsome monster, is about as rote as you can get. And we get no insight into his actual character. He's just the answer to the mystery, the jack of clubs when we were expecting the king of hearts. His reveal didn't feel meaningful, just the needless elaboration of a mediocre story that we thought was going somewhere more interesting.

[@keeganmclean2017]

The idea of an undermining twist might have been a fun idea to play around with in Iron Man 2. However, undercutting the Mandarin, the themes of war and weaponry and terrorism, and the serious dramatic tension that had been building was an awful idea. People like saving the big stakes for the final film of the trilogy (see Ragnarok, Civil War, No Way Home, Infinity War/Endgame, etc…).

[@siljeff2708]

To say that the mandarin scenes in the first half doesn’t matter is being disingenuous. The whole point is he is a false icon for the people to look for while Kilian does his stuff behind the scenes.

[@JohnnyOrgan]

Shane Black + RDJ = Most of RDJ's best performances. Always love that combo. Despite some weak elements, it was all about Tony's overall character arc. And it was beautiful. I'm also a bit of a Guy Ritchie fan too and I liked his "Nutty Professor" or "Catwoman" type transformation. But yeah, it did all get rather silly towards the end. But the Iron Man suits were thoroughly enjoyable. All the Iron Man movies have major flaws, purely because they concentrate a lot on Stark's personal journey. Which thankfully ended amazingly well. So, yeah, we can bitch about the whole first few phases of these Marvel movies lacking certain ingredients. But ultimately? By the end of End Game, most supporters were delighted with the end of the arcs with the likes of Iron Man, Captain America and Thanos. You don't get that often with major franchises. Where most fans are satisfied with the big conclusion. Where it wasn't deemed too cheesy, not epic enough or lacking depth or clarity with most of the characters. I find it really hard to knock that journey as a whole. We may never see a success like it again in our lifetimes. For at Marvel, for me, the writing has taken a real nosedive of late. Nowhere near the character work it had before. I have a lot of faith in James Gunn as a creator. I don't have so much faith in the Warner Bros producer structure that like to intervene and re-edit movies on a whim days before release. Like some mental Vince McMahon.

[@davidmylchreest3306]

I like the twist. I think it drives home the point that we need to look past the foreign boogyman and closer to our own shores when searching for our real enemies. I think they were going to make Rebecca Hall's character as the real villain, before someone decided that no one buys girl toys, but Guy Pearce becoming the true villain because of Tony's hubris and attitude is solid storytelling.

[@garrettp7003]

I remember being in a catatonic rage when the reveal scene was playing in the theater. Also this was where Marvel started doing that constant deflating tension maneuver they've become known for. It was annoying then and it only became less tolerable as time went on.

[@SmeargleStuff]

I feel like this could have worked if Aldrich Killian was made more menacing

[@Thamometer]

So the problem you pointed out is essentially the issue faced by Thor as well? Interjecting comedy everytime there's a serious scene or everytime they're on the cusp of something too deep/heavy.

[@jas_094]

Whatever happened to Paltrow's powers?

[@MK1MonsterOck1989]

I remember when I saw it in the theater and when he said “I’m an actor” I literally said “wait what?” no joke that was my reaction to this scene!

[@mikomaxwell6313]

MCU just is dead to me. It’s so very sad

[@whimsicalstray]

They've made repeated mediocre decisions. I know there are plenty of fans that will defend all of them, and that's fine. I'm just not motivated to watch every new release anymore.

[@dericjames2018]

MCU ended with Infinity War

[@mickeymouse7726]

I've grown to love Iron Man 3 over time

[@tylerphillips503]

I just watched a portion of Iron Man 3 again last night and I still think it's high on the list of best MCU movies, especially one of the best for handling the comedown from a recent Avengers movie. The PTSD Tony had from New York, the variety of suits, him forming a bond with Harley, and other character performances make it a good movie, and I enjoyed the twist with the Mandarin being invented as propagand, although I could do without Killian calling himself the true Mandarin and leaving it as a myth. I'd critique that there is a whole lot going on and it really makes it into a comic book-level of action, and one thing that would be divisive is that the villain here is one that Tony created, which became a trope for too many more movies (Mysterio, Ultron, etc.) but this was one of the earlier times it happened (and chronologically the first time because of the flashback), so that's not a big issue.

[@highwind1991]

Nah, the twist was awesome and absolutely hilarious. Iron Man 3 works on its own. Even as a Shane Black movie

[@jaegerbomb269]

I hate Iron Man 3. It was just boring to me, the sides characters weren't properly utilized, Tony was emasculated, undercuts itself, and let down.

[@pixelsthered]

Nah, "I am the Mandarin! " makes sense to me. Kilian had that whole "anonymity makes me invincible" speech and then finally his ego takes over and he's vulnerable and whups bye

[@lukeluke333lukeluke]

I hate the twist but mostly because how good they did at selling The Mandarin. He looked like a real threat. Once they played it off as a joke. Nothing was threatening for the rest of the movie. It deflated the movie which is a shame because Tony character story line is really good.

[@arpitnayak18]

Sounds to me like the real problem was that Ben Kingsley was a little too good as the setup for the joke, and the punchline was therefore a huge letdown.

[@deykno87]

Wanted to walk out after what they did to the mandarin…. Could have used the mandarin as precursor to strange and magic…such a missed opportunity

[@lamborghinilover]

Hard disagree here. The threat of terrorism being a smokescreen for domestic political actors is far more interesting than “foreign guy was to kill us for the lulz”. And the villain’s motivation being a direct result of how pre-Iron Man Stark treated him fits the overarching theme of Stark questioning his personal identity.

[@getschwifty5537]

Yeah, the whole "the twist negates everything at the start of the movie" and "Killian saying he's the Mandarin is confusing" are... Just plain bad takes that display an almost deliberate inability to engage with the movie's narrative of homegrown terrorism at all (and it's not exactly hard to pick up on, hence why I feel like a lot of times it's down to straight up refusal to engage with the movie's message at a fundamental level). Sorry Nerdstalgic but this video, these takes, just aren't it chief. IM3 does have problems yes but I feel like a good percentage of the criticism it's gotten ever since it released are either in bad faith or say worse things about the so called critics than it does the movie itself.

[@estevangarcia1089]

love watching your videos. keep up the good work, guys!! 👍

[@Targetstrike]

at least we got to see the actual Mandarin in Shang Chi too bad he never fought Iron Man though

[@Bingo_the_Pug]

Iron Man 3 was awful. They used the same “lol I’m not actually in the armor” gag like 4 different times

[@ArchOfWinter]

I read this movie as a critique of the American military industrial complex of manufactured threat to fight unjustified war for profits. The Mandarin persona and cooping of the Ten Ring is used as a way to generate public sentiment for military actions. Sure the conflict ended up as a personal beef, but it still doesn't take away from this interpretation.

[@samuelmcl.9474]

I mostly agree. However, the issue is that with this movie (and many other MCU movies, particularly the Iron Man ones) they dance around the complex implications of the themes and dont see them through to a compelling point. They vaguely gesture towards something interesting and valid, but then comfortably evade having to make a statement or change any perspectives on those themes. Take for example Iron Man 1, where Tony decides to stop manufacturing arms and stop war profiteering. When he attempts to do so, his business partner effectively shuts him out of the business and attempts to kill him. The movie sets up for this commentary on how the military industrial complex is such a depressingly integral function of sustaining capitalism, and how endless war is needed to sustain this. Tony is literally earning money off of people’s deaths. Yet the movie then reduces these ideas down to two men in armor fighting each other. Tony never reflects on arms manufacturing and the ethics of the military industrial complex- his concern with the situation is as superficial as “the bad guys are using my weapons” without wondering why they are bad guys or how weapons production might exacerbate war as a whole.

[@samuelmcl.9474]

I agree with this video, and Id also add that Tony’s character arc in this feels incomplete. We see him as a man without a suit who suffers from PTSD/anxiety after nearly dying. He’s drawn into a repressive, solitary shell and continues building his suits so that he can feel like he has control over his life. The movie doesnt really have him grow for this. The “turning point” for him is when the little boy tells him to just build something. So he does. And then he somehow overcomes his anxiety and PTSD and infiltrates the facility, and then still ends up calling and using all of his suits anyways. There’s no development, and his arc ends where it started. The problem the movie posits is that Tony Stark realizes that even his fancy suits dont make him invincible, and he feels traumatized and anxious in the aftermath of Avengers. And the solution it gives for his character is to just… build more stuff.

[@miracufelix]

I agree that the fake Mandarin was kinda lame, but it gave some weird dynamicy to the film, because in the first one terrorists are the bad guys, but Obadiah was the Villain. So if theMandarin was real, it would just be the first movie a bit different.

[@saxenachetan1989]

I always felt that using Ben Kingley as a decoy was a masterstroke. Most moviegoers knew him. He had a series of good movies backing him. I felt had he actually been the Mandarin, things would have been ok but not memorable probably. I do agree that the Guy Pearce's character could have built better.

[@bjarnerost2002]

Maybe a weird thing to say but I find your voice so very comforting and soothing

[@edwardjones282]

I hate that movie. Nobody can convince me IM2 is worse than IM3. Just pisses me off thinking about it.

[@thepickle2535]

Could've had a villain on par with Thanos and given a reason why we need another Iron Man (with Tony being gone), because The Mandarin is still out there and he won against Iron Man...and the heroes can't let that happen. That whole movie was a build up to the equivalent of a fart.

[@chrismantonuk]

Good points, but I have to disagree with you on this one. Iron Man 3 was a breath of fresh air precisely because of that twist. The menacing, scenery chewing villain has been done and done and done…. for me the Trevor Slattery reveal gave this film a freshness and interest that is sadly missing from many other Marvel movies.

[@max4377jk]

Honestly, if this critic was out at the time of iron man 3, I would see merit on your points but tbh After all these years and the arc they gave Iron-man and how they used the fake mandarin and the shangchi film, And tbh the usage of Marvel Material is really well done

[@pictureperfect3211]

The love for Iron Man 3 is SHOCKING. Like i think that this is easily the worst MCU film.

[@garthyahudahandrews8504]

agreed next to black widow

[@a.KniteOwl]

5:52 is the BEST part of this vid! That's the point I've been trying to make about the MCU as a whole, that while something can still be funny and well executed, it kills the potential for what the project should have been. I think of this with Better Call Saul becoming too dry and dramatic for its own good. it may be well executed, but it breaks a promise and character arc and warps it into something it certainly was never meant to be

[@vistalover9607]

The commentary on this video is great and spot on, but the only reason why this iron man 3 twist sorta works in context is because the mandarin twist addresses the false propaganda of the war against terrorism and how reality is complicated. The cruelty of the world is real and absolutely is but in this case it was fabricated. The twist doesn’t work well story wise but iron man’s release time and context in the time is was released made it a very relevant reveal

[@mightybatillo]

Thor 2 and Iron man 3 are on the bottom of my list

[@SpiritLife]

I didn't hate Iron Man 3 like others seemed to... but we can all agree it far surpasses all of Phase 4 combined.

[@dericjames2018]

Yes easily

[@Antwannnn]

No. I can't agree.

[@actualnotanewbie]

Hey I loved Iron Man 3. It uses the end of The Avengers to kick off a character arc that runs through Age Of Ultron, Captain America: Civil War, and arguably Infinity War and Endgame.

[@jotunfalls4026]

Iron man 3 is one of my fav mcu movies, i don't know what I'm doing by watching this video..... oh well

[@dextermorgan4686]

Iron Man 3 is my favorite Iron Man film. I didn't know the comics, so I didn't care about the twist that the mandarin wasn't the real mandarin.

[@WasiuGiwa-ul4hs]

Ironman1 is the best Ironman movie as it is actually true to the Ironman character say this as an Ironman fan

[@Devil-Made]

One of the BEST MCU movies. Hands down. Shane Black is largely misunderstood, but celebrated at the same time. He does great work here. And the issues this movie raises are grounded and realistic. His addiction and PTSD are themes we just don’t see in the MCU anymore. I wish we had more complex narratives like this in current MCU movies.

[@koscokos]

I’m one of those guys who liked the Mandarin twist. I grew up reading vintage comics and thought the Mandarin was kinda lame, so to me that reveal was real funny. Yet, I still think the movie isn’t good. I just hated the way Extremis was treated with all those lame guys spitting fire from their mouth looking all silly… as if I was watching Green Lantern, of Fantastic Four, or some other mediocre superhero movie. Splinter Cell / James Bond Tony Stark scenes were cool though, and I really liked his misadventures in a small town with that little boy - so much Spielberg vibes.

[@antona.1327]

The entire movie was the worst scene.

[@Y2Jerms]

Ironman 3 is pretty low. Like bottom 5 with dr strange.

[@SzymonAdamus]

On the one hand, a well-built opponent is sacrificed for a joke. Which is a fairly typical move for Shane Black, who likes to turn upside down the conventions and stereotypes he uses. But on the other hand, the fact that Mandarian turns out to be a fake is a commentary on the commercialization and joyful celebration of war we see in the film. War Machine turns into a colorful symbol, and Tony Stark has to shed his armor and deal with adversity on his own, without flashy gadgets. Comic book nostalgia and naiveté are torn away like a veil, and their place is taken by (pseudo) realism. Which doesn't change the fact that the ending is weak. But this is something Marvel has problems with in almost every movie :(

[@kevinodonnell4094]

The man who built a bulletproof suit of armor (In a cave! With scraps!) finds himself with every big box store afforded to him in America and he makes... ...a glove... ...that shocks people... Genius billionaire philanthropist Tony Stark. Super intelligent futurist industrialist Tony Stark. He made a glove that shocks people. *That* is completely what took me out of the movie, right before we ever had the Mandarin reveal.

[@Jeicemeiser]

I feel like I am in a lonely camp all by myself in that as I was watching the movie the first time in theaters I found myself thinkint, "The Mandarin seems cool and scary and stuff but it's kind of a bummer he has to be the main villain instead of Killian." I felt like there was much more of a personal connection between Killian and Stark, and much more of a mirroring in who they were/were becoming. I thought, since the movie was more focused on Stark the person, a villain with greater stakes in Stark the person and Stark's company would be more fitting. I figured that since the Mandarin is one of Iron Man's most famous villains that Killian would eventually have to be sidelined and dumped and become irrelevant, which I thought would make for a worse movie. So not only was I quite surprised by the Mandarin reveal, I welcomed it and felt vindicated that apparently the writers thought something similar to what I did

[@cdnnorsedogdad5119]

The "Ha Ringo." line was a nod to the man the character was Originally written for Ringo Starr, but the producers, correctly, did not think that Ringo could play a menacing Villain in the MCU.

[@Oni1975]

It's a rather common trope of Marvel movies that they always subvert most of their more serious topics and moments with some disposable humor. It's enjoyable and humorous, but it undercuts any ability to take the movies seriously (as in dramatic quality, not general entertainment quality). I suspect this is why Scorsese made the comment about Marvel movies not being real cinema. They are good entertainment and lasting pop culture impact, but that doesn't mean they tell compelling drama. It's why there's still a place for movies like Logan and The Joker as "real" cinema.

[@danielsantiagogiron3833]

while i understand the feeling of Killion not being as much of a compelling villain as the mandarin seemed to be set up to be, i don't see this scene as the writers throwing away everything they've made. I think it was more as a way for them to tell the audience not every movie goes as we expect it to. When the mandarin is revealed to be an idiot, it's as if they mask of the villain is being lifted, showing us how it wasn't the Mandarin, but rather Killion was the mind behind this all along. But Mandarin, Trevor or Killion, what the villains did, the people they killed and the citizens they terrorized, was never actually denied. Shane Black is a director who loves subverting expectations, and that's exactly what he did.

[@rasmaster2111]

Naw, the twist didn't take away from the villain bc all the set up still applies to the main bad guy, we were just misdirected

[@radretro3777]

It was good. The real question is whether or not its a Christmas movie.

[@noahverstynen8091]

Wasn’t the best marvel movie but I liked it a lot from what I remember.

[@christophermoriarty3274]

I disagree, wholeheartedly. I probably might have thought likewise at the time, but I was wrong then, as this video is now. The reveal makes the film. The fact that The Big Bad Final Boss is just disappointing old Killian is the point. This might be the only MCU film Scorcese would feel isn’t your standard theme park ride ending in a blue sky beam. I didn’t like it at the time, but it will probably stand out in the long run as one of the better MCU films, precisely for all the reasons being objected to here.

[@don_dozee]

They say a hero is only as good as their villains and Iron Man should have a gratifying trilogy capper if only the MCU had held off on the jokes. So for me, the threequel lands in second place with the first still considered to be my best overall because it was tonally engaging and never lost a beat.

[@devonalomar9012]

"Racist wrinkles" Are you kidding? 😂

[@bendmadio]

I stil remember the let down, wasted opportunity

[@bboyyoung10]

I’m so stupid I thought he was saying Ardie Jay instead of RDJ I was so interested to find out who’s as this talented unknown actor

[@AmArtGraphics]

You know, this movie is prime example of what happens when people who claim to want “ different” or less “ Marvel Fórmula” actually get something different.

[@stephenevjen3786]

I thought it was one of the better twists in a movie. The mandarin in the comic book grew from outdated stereotypes, they could have done one of two things: lean into the mandarin as an evil guy from asia with technology he doesn't understand, or recast them as a white guy using the name (see Doctor Strange). This was somewhere in-between. It more looks at the stereotype of the past and says "who was projecting their fears onto an entire group of people? Oh right, us". We're the bad guy, in the movie. There's a villain who is 'the other' and we need to defeat him because he's evil! Could they have delved into real terrorism and how to root it out? Maybe. I don't think the movie would have narratively worked after the end of the first Avengers movie. We already saw Tony taking down hordes of evil military 'others'. Instead we get to see him fighting against someone using propaganda to cover up his mistakes. Killian uses an image to 'other-ise' the ten rings and holds them up as a great evil that will take the fall for any of his mistakes no matter how big or small, just so he can sell his extremis to the military. So it's not that Tony is fighting his 'evil mirror', instead we're seeing Tony confront his own mistake. It would have been nice to see the character growth of him understanding he made mistakes in the past and do his best to correct them, but instead we get some big fight scene at the end (Still a great watch). So I suppose I'll always say that I think Ben Kingsley playing the 'fake' mandarin was one of their best options. They just didn't give Killian enough screen time, hoping that the reveal would put all the blame and fear on Killian. It just didn't work out like they hoped.

[@flyingmatteo89]

Yayyy a new video! Love your format

[@Broba_Fett]

I wanted to walk out of the movie when the "big reveal" happened. I couldn't believe it was built up as a joke.

[@latch9781]

It also doesn't help the suits were downgraded to Tin Man armour. Spent half the film being either useless or misused

[@waltergutierrez1395]

Ironman 2 is my favrite movie of the MCU. Iron Man 3 is in the lower half for sure.

[@sgtDrumriX]

I have to disagree with this assessment. Not in terms of experience, but in terms of what the film is communicating. The film is clearly pointing out that these conflicts seen as far away and frictional between differing cultures, are actually the product of internal conflicts suggesting that such conflict is a manufactured motivation to fuel personal rivalries. Consequently, this implies Tony's biggest sins are of his own direct involvement, as opposed to the backlash from structural friction between conflicted cultures. As a result, the reveal that the mandarin is little more that a smoke-show, with it's resulting disappointment, indicates to the viewer that Tony's problem to solve was never terrorism, but fighting those who would fuel terrorism for their own ends. A much more measured response to the conflict, than to simply beat a figure head of terror to become a stereotypical white-saviour trope. This is to say that the film tells us not to focus our ire at foreign terrorists; we don't even know if they exist, but we do know locally there are people who would exploit others to get what they want, even if all they want is to settle a petty grudge from years past.

[@GotoMaki4Micah]

i do love how he stormed the castle and made the actor guy piss his pants. what it meant for the movie sucked but for a scene it was great.

[@Dats_Mark]

The thing I hated most about Iron Man 3 was 90% of the movie you get remote control drone Iron Man. It's just lame as hell to know Tony isn't even in the suit.

[@AWOL_ODST]

I still remember watching this movie in the theatres, loving it right up until the “Mandarin” reveal and saying to myself “watch the fuck is going on”. Absolute waste of potentially one of the best MCU villains ever and we get Guy Pearce instead…. Unbelievable.

[@SolidPeaks]

I disagree with the take that non of the building tension with "The Mandarin" mattered, I look at it as a subversion. we expected Tony to fight another foreign villain archetype but really it's about how Billionares use their resources to manipulate the media to profit. which was a path Tony was going toward before becoming Iron Man. he also needed to learn how to be a hero without relying on his suits.

[@danandtab7463]

my big question was did this actor dude know what was doing, or did he think he was on a movie set? the former seems more likely but he ACTS like he doesn't know the repercussions of his latest gig is real. Doesn't make a ton of sense, it's like they just wanted a big twist for the sake of a twist.

[@halosnakem6g28]

I call it the alternate ending where Tony doesn’t die

[@HarvestStore]

Great video.