This Technology Could Revolutionize Winter Jackets

[@MyLifeOutdoors]

L.L. Bean Aerogel Jacket: geni.us/ns6eG Black Diamond Aerogel Jacket: geni.us/p4Kl3p Arc'teryx Down Jacket: geni.us/Sw63m

[@GerryHavican]

Any word on if the space insulation is going to come to a reality for us to buy in a winter coat? How soon before we can expect to see it on the market and how much do they think it will be? Thank you for your knowledge and time.

[@UncleGeorgeTV]

I'd like to add a special thanks to Fred for his sacrifices in the pursuit of science and better backpacking technologies Fred you're a true hero

[@MyLifeOutdoors]

He says “it’s all in a days work”

[@messagedeleted1922]

that rig you designed will have more use the more jackets you test. Over time the data set you create can be compared to industry data and subjective opinions with patterns in the data being used to either correlate the data or to tune you own rig. In the end the use of a test you devised yourself covering these articles of definitely kept me watching.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

​@@MyLifeOutdoors we will never forget!!!

[@togawearer2799]

@@MyLifeOutdoors Is there anything you won't promote, given enough money?

[@pogzie]

Thank you Fred.

[@MrCabimero]

11-52 percent warmer- that's a hell of a range!

[@Outlander34]

It's so wide it's almost meaningless.

[@Trenz0]

A range that wide is indicative of a lack of, or just bad testing

[@diotough]

Yeah, that range was already a red flag and indicative for marketing bs.

[@BrettBreeden]

Makes sense if you’re comparing it against different existing insulation materials, which appears to be what they are claiming.

[@gegwen7440]

They just forgot to add that down was !

[@cooseev]

I just want to say I really appreciate how concise this video is. A lot of other channels would've stretched this to a 21 minute mini documentary with a bunch of unrelated filler

[@cheesefries7436]

Hey you, yes you, the person watching this video. Your jacket is fine, you don't need to buy more stuff. Go out in nature and enjoy it.

[@zonderbaar]

😊❤

[@cestmoi7368]

lol - perfect!

[@whitebear6213]

LMFAO...So true! I still sport a 10 year old Salomon ski jacket and that thing is amazing. If you need new stuff that bad, go work hard for a sponsorship!

[@swobadass]

I'll still pick one up at value village 3 years from now

[@Username-xk9lx]

But I used to live in a place where the coldest it gets is 50 degrees Fahrenheit. Moved to a place where it actually snows in winter and can reach -20 Fahrenheit and my “warmest jacket” is just a fleece hoodie.

[@flybyguy1450]

"People who have quite a bit of money" Dude that arcteryx is like double the cost of the ll bean.

[@squidge903]

True. Arcteryx has also become a status brand lately too, so you pay a premium for them - tho arguably they have better tech and your dollar goes further than LL Bean (in my experience of gear with both brands.) LL Bean isn't about spending your money on quality of gear but more for the logo and what it 'stands' for to people who see it. North Face is the same these days despite previously being about top quality technical gear, and yes, Arcteryx is heading that way (also Fjallraven.)

[@thomasspotzl4240]

Arcteryx products will make you feel warmer and dryer knowing you are better than other people. A feeling you can only buy with money.

[@lolapplesauce]

I actually was going to agree with you but then I checked the links he provided to the jackets in the description and they're all comparably priced right now, but the down Arcteryx is on sale from 400.

[@nicolasbertin8552]

true, although I only buy Arc'teryx when it's on sale :D

[@cerberus0413]

@@lolapplesauce Only because the ArcTerex is on closeout on one single color. Even that one closeout color is $80 more than standard retail LLBean pricing.

[@aquanoun]

MLO solidifying its niche as the Mythbusters of Backpacking KZbin. Love these videos!

[@MyLifeOutdoors]

I’m honored

[@bluenorthern21]

Rates right up there with Project Farm

[@williampatrickfurey]

Loved the fact that you mentioned straight forwardly that you're not tearing the jackets apart. It would be a deal breaker for some watching the video for the most exact scientific purposes, so I appreciate your honesty.

[@roland_m]

It's so nice to see actual objective testing of outdoor gear. This video earned my subscription.

[@matthewbarber4505]

I agree, this was a really good test setup. I'm impressed!

[@Kevin-ib3io]

Interesting approach! The video is well done. I'd say at minimum you need a control though. Fred without a jacket so you could see how the heater behaves. Even better would be multiple measurements for each jacket. I definitely appreciate you buying this stuff so I don't have to!

[@UIairi]

Yeah, I question this methodology as someone who owns one of those chest freezers. They're like +/- 10 degrees before they kick on, meaning the freezer may not have turned on at all for the first jacket, just cooling it ambiently. If it reached it's +10 degree trigger temperature for the second jacket, it may have been working to actively cool the second jacket instead, and potentially to a considerably cooler temperature then the first even experienced in its hour. Running the experiment for far longer and averaging each hour would be the easiest way to account for this. I think, if you wanted to absolute BEST experimental conditions though, not only is a control needed, but I'd recommend leaving all of the equipment in the freezer for several hours to let it all come to the same starting temperature, measuring the temperature in the freezer itself at the start of each test to rule out any large ambient temperature differentials between the tests, and THEN turning the heaters on with the freezer unplugged to rule out any interference from the freezer itself. Then you could measure the amount of energy it takes to bring each jacket to temperature, and the amount of time it takes to bring each jacket to temperature, which should give you cleaner data. Energy spent "maintaining temperature," as a real world reference, sounds good in theory, but there's too many variables to account for. This way you would also have the ambient temperature gauge in the freezer itself to provide a secondary data point, where a quicker rising, or higher overall, ambient temperature of the freezer itself would be the direct result of more heat loss from the jacket. Makes for a nice succinct experiment with three data points (time to target temperature, energy used to reach target temperature, freezer ambient temperature) that you can use to help isolate error as well.

[@lostinacrowd]

And synthetic vs synthetic not vs down. The reason synthetic is potentially better than down is that synthetic can still insulate when wet and down can't.

[@tenguface1257]

It would also have been cool to see Steven test under the lens of a thermal camera and time how long it takes down vs primaloft to maintain a certain threshold of body temperature under static conditions.

[@ah244895]

Have project farm run the test. He definitely had the engineering chops to design an objective test

[@rnedisc]

@@UIairi This defeniterly deserves another more thourough test! The fact that the heavier jacket supposedly from the same material performed worse than the lighter one is already kind of a red flag.

[@ArmenianViking]

I love how you just crush their dreams with a casual experiment. Bravo🎉

[@bengt_axle]

The insulating properties of the fill are far less important than people are led to believe. What matters for an outdoor activity jacket in winter is how the humidity is managed. You can see on the LL Bean jacket with the aerogel that there is condensate forming around the underarms (3:39). This water then has to evaporate, and for this it will use the heat from your body, which is why you feel cold. The only way around this problem is to add loft so as to reduce the temperature gradient between the inside and the outside, so that the water vapor will not condense close to the body, but escape as vapor slowly through the outside of the shell. This is the advantage of wool, and why Scandinavians like to wear loose wool sweaters on the outside. It reduces condensate and reduces the heat loss in the process. The test model in the freezer, not sweating, totally overlooks this crucial problem.

[@cwr8618]

what about his subjective test? he did swap back and forth for quite some time

[@highviewbarbell]

Wicking base, merino sweater mid layer, loose Icelandic wool outer sweater is a GOAT setup

[@cubertmiso]

@@highviewbarbell sounds promising setup, but how about the wind?

[@highviewbarbell]

@@cubertmiso does better than you think even with the holes, but you can always put a thin windbreaker between the two sweaters (giant poofy one still on outside)

[@cubertmiso]

@@highviewbarbell thanks! just saw cheap merinowool underwear kit bargain, this pushes even more to finally test it.

[@JaeHahn]

I own an Oros Jacket and they've been making aerogel jacket for many years now. They are a bit heavy though but it keeps me completely warm at sub degree temperatures.

[@chesterfinecat7588]

The Arc'teryx down jacket I got at a 1/2 price sale years ago has been a constant companion. It's patched and worn thin but is still my favorite insulating layer under a shell. They wisely made the top shoulder and bottom sleeve baffles with polar guard because these are the most likely spots to get wet. I'd buy another in a heartbeat except for the price which keeps me patching my old one.

[@Schemen123]

their hard shell jackets are also top notch.. i had mine for 15 years now and only this year it got too shaby to really be useful.

[@JoeyBoBoey]

Zero excuse for charging the amount of money they are. They are opportunists.

[@jiw71]

and "woke" mofos to boot!@@JoeyBoBoey

[@longiusaescius2537]

Eh

[@mrhelichopper]

What a refreshing experience, a non sponsored, objective, real world comparison of products. Absolutely brilliant, thanks for the great video and information.

[@theoutdoorparadox6897]

This was very informative. Can you use your testing chamber for multiple different brands of jackets? Would love to see the Patagonia range of jackets go against the Arcteryx range!

[@B57846]

This!

[@167RAULIN]

Yesssss

[@malk71]

Please!

[@2004jpepper]

Would be cool to see side by side w typical thickness wool jacket, down jacket, and winter fleece jacket. Nothing excessive thick, just sort of typical thickness each generally are sold as.

[@alaskabornheathen8902]

Yes I would love to see how the Torrid Apex by Enlightened Equipment performs. I’d also love to see how different layerings and different materials perform. Primaloft vs Climashield Apex vs Lamilite. Wool vs Alpaca. Omniheat vs non thermal reflective lined garments. I know Omniheat works but just how much better does it work? Love to see some numbers.

[@IOberwerk]

I'm just glad to see that Fred got more work. It's been a long time since I am Legend.

[@markdoucette6828]

lol…good one!

[@FlyingScot911]

Exactly. I think this is the first Fred cameo I've seen since his debut in I am Legend. He should of got Best Supporting Actor at the Oscar's for that year. He nailed that role.

[@chrisoffersen]

Dude. This is the most rigorous outdoor apparel insulation review I’ve seen on KZbin, and I’ve seen _many_ . Great work! Much respect.

[@jinxtacy]

Out of curiosity, have you ever come across content specifically aimed at hotter climates? It was a pretty miserable year in Texas last summer and I was looking for central and upper South America outdoor gear. Strangely, I discovered Columbia seemed to have an extremely nice climate, even though in my mind, I always just assumed equator equals super hot. Maybe it's just a more intense sun. I found some Columbia hot weather gear but so much was kind ugly with American flags or fish or hunting branding. Thanks in advance!

[@chrisoffersen]

@@jinxtacy I’ve started paying attention to this kind of gear too. Outdoor Research has a pretty amazing material, “Ferosi,” which I’ve used in a wide range of climates, including Subsaharan Africa. It blocks sun and dries very quickly. Helly Hansen’s sun shirts are very nice in hot weather. Sitka, a hunting brand, has some items for the heat… but your color choices are limited to earth tones and camouflage. Drying time and protection from the sun seem, to me, to be the best indicators for how comfortable something’s going to be in the heat… covering up in the heat, while it seems counterintuitive, keeps you cooler than exposing skin; not least because sunburned skin is really bad at regulating temperature. I swear we’re all going to be dressed like the Bedouin soon.

[@jinxtacy]

@@chrisoffersen thank you for all the insight and recommendations on stuff to look into. I was actually looking at arabian clothes since I had some friends that went to do some work in Saudi Arabia and he was wearing one. I also saw some elderly female Indian immigrant women walking around when it was still quite hot out and it looked like they were wearing a ton of clothes. Been listening to some material engineer podcasts which started me thinking about various textiles. Seems like a pretty constrictive industry as they were saying one and a half cents per whatever unit they measure in can make an alternative material unviable in the marketplace so often the goal is to make a superior material that is equal or cheaper to the standard materials. It's super crappy to think about that we might be able to have much better materials for an extra few cents per garment, but they'll never manifest unless there's a potential marketing angle.

[@dowilderness4545]

Fred you do a great job and finally someone understands warms. There is no substitute for loft and loft equals traped air. Thank you for showing that to people.

[@jacob1121]

I think how the jacket actually fits on the person and how well it is at sealing at the neck, abdomen and hands is much more important than any other factor, provided the seams are airtight.

[@fostytou]

This was the first thing I thought as well. What if the heat is allowing convective movement of air from the thinner / looser jacket?

[@thispod]

I think aerogel might have its uses, for example in shoe insoles where down is not an option. Jacket insulation is feasible but more development is likely necessary to outperform other solutions

[@sdemosi]

Good idea. It's a bit stiff however so aerogel may detract from cushioning. Plain old foil works well in such insoles with a fleece top layer. The only aerogel insoles I've seen use this primaloft version which is actually sheet insulation with some aerogel fibres woven in. Lundhags sell trekking insoles with primaloft "aerogel"

[@Wi3dMaN]

I would love to see you test more winter gear with that setup. Awesome work.

[@ltstaffel5323]

Thanks for this! Only thing is I wish you'd done a control with no jacket on the dummy on the freezer

[@PhilKulak]

Then the pad runs for 60 minutes. What do you learn from that?

[@up4open763]

@@PhilKulak base line cost. you're assuming it would run the full time.

[@justinc2633]

@@PhilKulak well you personally could start by learning the purpose of a control

[@justincase5272]

Don't forget IR reflectivity, an often overlooked factor in preventing heat from leaving in the first place. All critical factors: - insulation - IR reflectivity - air gaps around the wrists, neck and waist - windproofing - mild to moderate breathability to minimize water vapor buildup Best approach: Layering. Excellent test you devised concerning the measurement of power draw and time spent cycling the heating pad.

[@TheGreatAmphibian]

Layering isn’t necessarily best: British arctic warfare units favour one layer pile and parted Buffalo shirts.

[@audetnicolas]

Should compare the two when humid / wet.

[@AaronVets]

💯🎯

[@richardstewart6900]

Yup! And how breathable they are.

[@ahill209]

I love your scientific approach. As an engineer, we always say make decisions based on data. You produced the data!

[@MacChallenge]

Steven, your level of dedication to the outdoor gear is quite impressive! And hilarious too 😅 You make my total obsession with gear seem like a hobby. Great work! Also happy to see that down is still in front. Major respect to you!!

[@MyLifeOutdoors]

Be careful…my gear hobby became my job. But I love it.

[@wisenber]

Aerogel was first created in 1931, not sure what NASA had to do with that. Aerogel works well when in encapsulated in a static structure as it's very fragile. Not so well when the structure isn't static, like a coat. It also doesn't pair well with other materials as it loses its insulating properties when there is any interruption in the coverage. I've owned a Shivershield coat for years. It retains heat amazingly well....and weighs about 5 lbs due to the lining required to maintain it.

[@wisenber]

@@joewee I mean aerogel was first developed in 1931 and continued to be developed for decades before NASA became a customer of one of the developers.

[@johnjingleheimersmith9259]

what needs to be done, if not already, is to create tiny little packets of aerogel, like tiny beanbags or those silica gel packets you find in medication bottles and everywhere else, and pack those into jacket voids. Thereby you would have isolated little nuggets of warmth but it would not impede vapor or gas transmission if you want that as that all can pass around the packets. And you can make the packets sealed waterproof and tight in these little packet nuggets so if they get crushed or whatever it will not matter as I imagine it would last a long time before crumbling into nothingness. If you want to take it further you make the aerogel into a more rigid scaffolding like the pockets of waffles then seal that material. Lots of options could work. Even if the aerogel is crushed into 0.1cm pieces the particles of air trapped are still much much much smaller, so it would not affect the properties of insulation that much at all.

[@wisenber]

@@johnjingleheimersmith9259 Aerogel doesn't just crush. It collapses into dust.

[@johnjingleheimersmith9259]

@@wisenber all that matters is that the "dust" particle sizes are larger than the air voids.

[@wisenber]

@@johnjingleheimersmith9259 No. The structure is where the insulating properties exist and the structure traps the air. A pile of silica dust doesn't offer any meaningful insulation value as the airvoids no longer exist.

[@andrew41980]

There has been aerogel jackets and clothes for a long time. Oros is the company, great gear.

[@countrygirl63baker64]

Way to go Steven, that was quite clever!!! Love it!!!😊

[@Forevertrue]

Thanks for this. I have wondered the difference myself for some time. Being a down guy, I am cheered that I did not succumb and spend the extra money for the tempting new product. Thanks Again.

[@99problemsbutafishaintone35]

Sitka already uses Aerogel in their jackets. It works pretty good.

[@Taco.Flavoured.Kisses]

performs good when wet, too 👍

[@ChristophManucredo]

Your method of testing felt so incredibly genius. I love it.

[@nrdkraft]

7:37 I have to agree 100% with what Fred said there. Besides, he spent three hours in a freezer with them so he definitely knows what he’s talking about😅

[@gdiup9241]

I had a coat with light poly fill, and the outer was silk. The thickness of the coat was 3/8". It was such a warm light coat. Even in wind...in the snow belt of the great lakes. I loved that coat!!!

[@normansmith2977]

There’s a similar material/insulation used in some motorcycle clothing, known as Outlast, also developed by NASA to line spacesuits. I have one such garment and it’s my go-to winter warmer, absolutely brilliant.

[@tyvaughnholness1985]

Great test platform! I have an Oros jacket and I'd love to see it go up against a down jacket. Please make a follow up video if you can 😊

[@paulgaras2606]

That chamber is terrifying. One feature that might make a difference in the performance of the down vs the aerogel is that the down is fluffier. That would create slightly less contact between the interior of the jacket and your base layer, and those areas where it’s not touching would form more air pockets. If you had an aerogel jacket of the same volume and weight as an unpacked down jacket you might get a different result.

[@sdemosi]

The problem is Primaloft are not selling aerogel jackets. Aerogel is stiff and dense. I own one of those Oros Aerogel jackets and a Haglofs lightweight primaloft aerogel insulator. The Haglofs one is pleasant to wear and pretty packable as it's using aerogel infused sheet synthetic insulation. Sheet insulation can be better than down for wind resistance (stitching issues in light down jackets) but it's not as good an insulator. Adding aerogel merely closes the gap to a hugh quality goose down of day 750-800 fill power. The Oros jacket is an amazing insulator for its thickness. It is heavier than any of my down jackets. It's comparable in weight to my old school waxed cotton and wool insulating coats. My wife sent hers back because she didn't like how hefty it was. Indeed it's like wearing a suit of insulating armour. There's not a huge market for heavy insulating jackets anymore, no matter how "high tech". Oros seems to be in financial difficulty and are out of stock. Primaloft have produced a good piece of marketing which also insulates well. It's not comparable to pure aerogel or even Oros' tech but it's more marketable.

[@boatman222345]

I've been an outdoor fanatic for more than 60 years (hiking, snowshoeing,X Country skiing, backpacking, ice climbing, canoeing, sea kayaking, rock climbing, sailing, power boating, ice skating, bird watching, orienteering, winter photography, etc) and I have also worked as a salesman in mountaineering shops. When I peruse outdoor equipment catalogs and ads these days I am caught between laughter and tears. I remember the days when it was difficult to get outdoor enthusiasts to part with $26 for a Kelty Anorak and today I see people shelling out $800 for wind shells! The score at present is Madison Avenue Hype 99.9. Outdoor enthusiasts 1. If it seems too good to be true….

[@ll5974]

Thank you! I am allergic to down so this may be my alternative (for casual hiking).

[@maple_fields]

Regular synthetic insulation will also probably work just fine for your needs! If you're not backpacking, the slightly higher weight and bulk shouldn't be a huge consideration.

[@putrid_swamp_juice]

@@maple_fieldsAgreed, synthetic also works. It’s just heavier and more bulky. Fred should do a comparison with a primaloft gold jacket too. I’m not convinced the primaloft aerogel is much better.

[@tommyNix4098]

I appreciate all the time and trouble you went to to make a thorough test on these jackets.

[@GrandpaHerman1]

What does it do to your lungs? Down messes me up. We breathe in the fine stuffing dust that permeates the fabric. Aerogel is made of silica. Silicosis is a deadly lung disease caused by breathing in silica dust.

[@sebastiancohnify]

Having worked with them quite a bit in grad school, I just want to say how cool it is that you essentially made a homemade single-zone thermal mannequin!

[@TDue-zn6jk]

Aerogel was created in 1931, 27 years before the creation of NASA.

[@RedIria]

The Black Diamond jacket you tested is designed for high activity and has large heat/sweat-shedding panels across the entire back and under the arms. I'm surprised you didn't mention it, but I highly doubt you'd XC ski in the down jacket.. while that's exactly what the black diamond one is for.. a bit of apples vs oranges for a comparison =/

[@LousyFIBs]

They should make camping dishware out of that stuff. A lighter-yet-more-insulated mug or thermos would be a better use.

[@toastrecon]

I think it’d be like making a plate out of chalk? Honestly, it’d be better to just use styrofoam and be careful with it. Super light, insulates well, and is extremely cheap.

[@eric55406]

He did say that Aerogel is very brittle.

[@bosbeles6530]

it can be lighter by using plastic and aerogel instead of steel but vacuum is best instulator so it is very hard to make the existing ones better

[@squidge903]

​@@toastreconso don't make a plate put of it... A mug with a stabilizing external layer and aerogel insulation might be very nice, tho

[@toastrecon]

@@squidge903 Yeah, that would work! I know my old JetBoil mug has a little insulation layer around it. Other people will make something out of "reflectix" that's very cheap. Would be interesting to find out the performance of that aerogel combo and one layer of reflectix.

[@Top-Quark]

Oros makes an Aerogel insulation that they call Solarcore. I own their Parka and their Jacket and I find they both do a great job keeping me warm in the Canadian winters. Would love to see them compared in this way. My suspicion is that weight-wise down will be superior, however, Oros's jackets are very thin while heavy, so profile-wise, they will keep you warm without the bulk.

[@JonAnderhub]

Thank you, thank you, thank you. There is so much marketing hype in outdoor gear it is good to see some exposed!

[@jackiworld]

Aerogel is factory made, as down need to be farmed. I see an enormous economic and environmental potential.

[@Taco.Flavoured.Kisses]

methane from goose farts would be a deal breaker.

[@alteisen02]

Jack Wolfskin had an alternative to down. I think they called it microguard superloft. Basically it should have the same properties as down while being hydrophobic, so it still does it‘s job when wet. Never had one of these jackets though.

[@jacob1121]

If your jacket is getting holes in it you have bigger issues than getting wet.

[@arcadialive4265]

Arc’teryx is just on a whole different level. I’ve worn their jackets through everything. Back country boarding in blizzards, the stuff is just better.

[@paulmorrow8372]

I have that same Arcteryx jacket. It is insane how warm that thing is and weighs nothing.

[@denyen96]

I am an R&D engineer and ex-professional skier. I have also used aerogel in my work, and have benchmarked numerous insulations. Your testing is quick, dirty, and effective. You are right not to believe the marketing hype. Aerogel is great in its solid crystalline form. It is mainly Silicon. Organic materials are some form of Hydro Carbon. The molecules/atoms in down are less dense than aerogel (structure being equal). Aerogel really shines with extreme temperatures. But at temperatures we can survive, there are actually many common insulations that are more weight specifically effective. Aerogel even for mild temperatures can be more volume specifically effective, but that usually as a nice brittle brick, not as a primaloft style insulation. One thing Aerogel has going for it is that it is hydrophobic. Again, that is really only in high concentrations. Engineering is taking a look at simple facts, and rigorously applying common sense. Well done.

[@ulvesparker]

What I especially like is how compactable it is. It can stuff flat into a A4 mailer. I am allergic to down, so I need a synthetic alternative.

[@Irohbro]

Now test them whiled wet! That's when you really need the warmth.

[@s379Ox]

I agree with Fred. Thank you for going through the trouble!

[@klang180]

Given how cruel the production of down is it would be amazing if something could perform better than it.

[@Im_With_Stupid]

A lot of down is ethically sourced and I would wager that all the top brands are using GTDS or RDS certified sources which are the strictest. All that cheap ChinaCo. crap on Amazon that ignorant people suck up like water because "Name brands are a rip off!" is where the force fed and live plucked down is going. Even Decathlon uses RDS down and they're able to keep their prices low by using duck down instead of goose or eider down.

[@bjrntollefsen6176]

I agree down is totally cruel which is why I had a custom made aerogel winter coat made by Prez Atelier and it’s warm and cosy to -10 degrees Celsius. Please understand not all aerogel is created equal. The hybrid material like the aerogels jackets used in this video are not as effective. My jacket is full aerogel blanket 3mm thick and I have used it for 3 years now living in Norway. So for him to say aerogel in general is not as warm as down feather is misleading. Proper aerogel lining which is a bit spongy like mine works brilliantly and I feel the cold easily. It can also be ordered in other thicknesses for colder than -10 degrees Celsius temps. Also, some companies cheat by just using aerogel panels and this doesn’t work either, needs to be full coverage of the whole garment. When NASA made it work for their spacesuits it obviously works and it absolutely works for me.

[@zachpangos7159]

I have Oros parkas, hats and mittens, they all work well. I can sit directly in front of a forced air garage heater for several minutes without feeling much heat,obverse in -15F felt almost no cold. Disadvantage is if you move at all, it’s too hot unless it’s below 0. Oros store says everything out of stock, so idk what happened there.

[@Harry-Giles]

Well done. Interesting test.

[@29028ft]

i wouldn't be surprised to see the aerogel hybrid insulation become the new standard in the synthetic game. even if it's not warmer than down, it's great to see improvements in the synthetic space.

[@PrueferAuge]

i doubt that a normal freezer will give repeatable results. they try to keep the temp in a (somewhat broad) range and only turn on for a short time. so, sometimes, the freezer is just colder than other times. to determine the insulation quality properly, you need to measure both the hot side AND the cold side. thats ∆t. good insulation means a slow rate of change and little energy needed to keep status quo. but if one side is unknown, then ∆t is unknown and the entire experiment becomes meaningless. the higher ∆t is, the greater the rate of change. tldr: if fridge temp is not repeatable, then it might be warmer or cooler than before. if not measured then numbers do not matter also, why the mannequin? it just introduced points of error. if the jackets were folded(all the same way), then it'd be better for accuracy

[@MyLifeOutdoors]

I kept track of the freezer temperature too. It stayed between 9-11F for both jackets. Ironically it got up to 16F for the BD jacket which performed the worst.

[@PrueferAuge]

@@MyLifeOutdoors ive always wondered: how repeatable is a comercial freezer? when the target is 5F and one where to start at room temp, how much would it overshoot its target (if at all)? would it always take the same time? how close does it stick to its target over a period of time? such variables need to be known to interpret the numbers correctly

[@seaseas]

​@@MyLifeOutdoorsMaybe I'm not understanding, but is that ironic? Couldn't it be the heating pad is warming the chamber more in that test since it's running more? Perhaps you could put a killawatt on the freezer? Then you could know the energy spent on cooling is similar run to run.

[@MartinCharles]

The arcteryx jacket has some insane technology inside. I have one and its as light as a raincoat while being warmer and more comfortable than any other jacket I've owned, kinda amazing.

[@joelmulder]

Wow, this is one of the rare times someone says they’ll investigate something scientifically, and actually does it scientifically. Great video!

[@TRON0314]

Unfortunately, not peer reviewed or tested widely like science would.

[@lionelubc]

Well done for comparing similar weight jackets. The marketing of down jackets is frustrating because often the Fill Power is advertised but not the amount of down, so you can't interpret the actual insulation in the jacket (aka Loft). So frustrating. Your comparison of similar weight jackets is what counts.

[@johningle1]

I showed this to my landlord, he says the rent is still due.

[@aarongreer7621]

I appreciate the high standards of your test, and it shows in the results. That being said, you could drop the "people who have too much money" comment from the repertoire. Arc'teryx is still an expensive brand, more so than L.L. Bean, as it turns out. Owning nice things doesn't mean someone has too much money. Nice things cost money, and it can be left at that.

[@Bananakid11]

I'd love to see a comparison between fleece, down, merino and some other materials with Fred. Maybe also just a direct comparison of different down qualities, eg. 1000, 900, 800, ... cuin with the same weight per jacket or sleeping bag. great video, combining new tech with scientific methods is always a good idea :D

[@sashanjayawardena9389]

And that's what I can call PROPER TEST. welldone. Keep it up.

[@DamonMiles-j4w]

It could of been as simple as you not procuring as good as a seal around the mannequin at the top or bottom of the jacket while testing. You don't seem like the most detailed oriented. Or could be simply the mannequin was open on the bottom which allowed more cold to be absorbed into the core of the mannequin. Tested the down first, so the core would be the warmest and requires the least, next u tried the light weight space one and it took more, then the heavy duty and it took even more because the core was storing more and more cold.

[@meb1]

I have an Oros aerogel jacket and pair of gloves. Not well outdoor hiking and camping gear (they say for skiing) but they are warm. Very warm.

[@ricdonato4328]

Please, turn off the background music! It is beyond me why KZbin content creators think playing background music over the presenter's voice is somehow enhancing their videos. We came to hear you, not to fight background music which quickly becomes extremely annoying, distracting, and intrusive. Many folks have hearing difficulties, thus while concentrating on your voice they must also concentrate on tuning out the music; it is very frustrating. Your background music ruins an otherwise exceptionally good presentation.

[@jeffreycarman2185]

Cool test. I can imagine that one variable is the fit of the jackets. Like a looser-fit might leak warm air.

[@kurt1391]

I have the L.L. Bean jacket he has, same color, but just normal polyester insulation. It's freakishly warm and lightweight. I wouldn't wear it in wet conditions, but as a normal winter coat, it's wonderful. It's about as heavy as many windbreakers, but good down to 0F. At warmer temperatures, it doesn't feel hot, either.

[@kangzau1006]

What a set up Fred! The other conclusion is your subjective test in the woods is actually pretty good.

[@ashzhu3085]

I actually went to buy this Primaloft LLBean jacket after watching this video and am pretty impressed with it. I think this video can benefit from clarification of the weight of the fillings in each jacket. For example the LLBean contains 65g of primaloft (written on its tag) while the Cerium has 850-fill-power European white goose down/Coreloft 100 (100 g) and Coreloft 80 (80 g) 80% recycled polyester.

[@FleccaRobinson]

I really respect that you didn't tear these jackets open just for some KZbin clout

[@jimf1964]

It’s not a marketing toy, except for maybe making it sound like it’s better than down. I’m a big fan of natural materials, but synthetics do have some advantages. Like get a down jacket wet, and say goodbye to the rest of the trip, but you can hang a poly filled to dry. So if it’s a superior synthetic, then it is better

[@MyLifeOutdoors]

Synthetic has its place…I certainly wasn’t trying to suggest it didn’t. The Aerogel particles seems like the marketing ploy to me. And I wanted it to work

[@jimf1964]

@@MyLifeOutdoors Yeah, don’t get me wrong, I was just curious how it compares to regular poly fill, just to be fair to this stuff. It’s pretty hard to beat down, or wool. I’d also be curious about how durable it is. since the gel is so brittle on its own, would it collapse over time?. But in the end, I think you’re right.

[@2004jpepper]

I'd love to see a Fred freezer test side by side with "relatively standard thickness" wool jacket, down jacket, and winter fleece jacket. Would be cool to see precential comparisons.

[@garymendez-tj4bw]

That’s why I like my sheepskin jacket. Nothing I have ever worn beats its warmth. Natural all day.

[@asmith7876]

Your dedication to testing and the tools involved are impressive! LL Bean used to sell true outdoor gear but it's been decades ago. They are now simply a fashion show for people who want to LOOK like they go outdoors.

[@CaptainBerz]

Black Diamond used to have an offering that put a Primaloft and Down mix into a jacket. It was by far the best performing jacket I have ever owned. It was called their Cold Forge line. I then left it in Alaska and have forever been sad since. Unsure why they stopped making them.

[@user-kh1ro6wv3t]

Thanks for the honest truth. This actually help us viewers, to decide if it’s worth buying.

[@Swarm509]

Great video, and very interesting way to test the jackets! I would say testing against other synthetic jackets would be the next step. Time to get "Project Farm" all up in this!

[@uninteressant2196]

Hi, nice video. Maybe the bigger blue aerogel jacket performed worse because it was a worse fit? Next time maybe put a rubber band around the lower torso so the heat has to travel through the jacket and there is no air exchange below.

[@frankrizzo5967]

columbia jackets with the omni heat always work very well for me over all the other down jackets I've tried.

[@__-pl3jg]

Thanks. I hope one day someone does finally create a synthetic clothing insulation that performs as good as goose down. I like the durability and low cost of synthetic winter gear but still like the lightweight/compressible features of goose down. I wear a wool Anorak when doing bushcraft because there's always a fire present and I dont mind getting wet. But, for thru hiking I still cant find anything that beats goose feathers!

[@alexkasimir9931]

that was a great video! I'm thoroughly impressed . That was one of the most scientific test on jackets.

[@peterisgoogling9998]

I think PrimaLoft is intended to keep you warm and breathe well while being active for example during a hike. if you test these jackets while standing then down will always win.

[@RamonBalthazar]

That's a great result for a technology in its first iterations! This only shows that synthetics are headed in the right direction. Technology only gets better from here

[@locutusofzork4630]

I remember seeing this in a Popular Science magazine in 1990 as a option for winter jackets and home insulation.

[@daveraymondCA]

What is great about aerogel is that it can maintain its insulation ability even when wet.

[@benoitbrunet6669]

I would love to see a comparaison of down fill against asclepiad plant/flower insulation. Quartz made a jacket with that insulation but stop because cost and manufacture problems. Maybe u can find a company that works with those plants

[@DaBinChe]

insulation is about thickness in how much air it holds (loft). The down has more thickness for same weight means there is more loft

[@moopy6344]

fun fact: aerogel is a great insulator, but insulating from "the frigid temperatures in space" is not really an issue, because while the particles in space are very cold, there are very few of them to carry away heat from objects in space, so they actually lose more heat to infrared radiation than transferring heat. In fact the international space station has radiatorpanels made specifically to radiate heat out faster because otherwise it would get too warm inside because the movement and equipment produce more heat than they would otherwise lose.

[@mikeshoults4155]

I saw a video of someone making aerogel. It was extremely complex and difficult. I can't imagine it being made on a commercial scale.

[@mcndjxlefnd]

This is the best outdoor gear channel on KZbin.

[@lanzer22]

This had been my experience with my prima loft jacket. It's almost as warm as my down jacket. But because it is thinner and doesn't have the puffy jacket look, I wore it all the time and I end up layering it with my light down jacket when I needed the extra warmth. The two very light and packable jackets ended up being way better than the thick and heavy jackets I owned in the past.

[@commentarytalk1446]

Down is the layer of fine feathers found under tougher exterior feathers, usually obtained from the breast area of geese and ducks. It's extremely light, compressible, breathable, vapor permeable, and durable. Down is therefore an ORGANIC material. It is good if clothing can be made more organic so they are more cradle-to-cradle and less from synthetic for this reason. It would be another reason for some clothing choices as an addition to your comparison description.

[@spickey5378]

Not the hero we deserve, but the hero we need. Thanks for the info as always

[@ericb.4358]

Thanks for doing these tests. Aerogel seems unlikely to maintain loft over time.and from repeated stuffing in a stuff sack. DWR treated quality down is what I wear and use for a winter sleeping bag.