This UNIT Is IMBALANCED | StarCraft 1 vs StarCraft 2 Mod

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#harstem #SC2 #StarCraft2

[@AJKiesel]

"This unit is imbalanced!" Didn't even get to the Defiler.

[@AntiDoctor-cx2jd]

It doesn't seem very good against protoss, since they have reavers or disruptors. SC1 terran doesn't have anything against it. I suspect steady targetting still works.

[@AJKiesel]

@@AntiDoctor-cx2jd Plagued Goons and Reavers still die way quicker. Also, Dark Swarm makes Goons absolutely useless.

[@tonaka86]

@@AntiDoctor-cx2jd plague everything and then mutas end it.

[@Appletank8]

Dark Swarm is a little worse when there's Collossus or Disruptor, but I'd think Plague will still be deadly. It's Zerg's only reliable splash damage.

[@AntiDoctor-cx2jd]

@@AJKiesel do they die as easily as a defiler who gets hit by a scarab?

[@ethanlocke3604]

In SC2 they balanced by making the units balanced, in Broodwar they balanced by making everything busted

[@47StormShadow]

quite correct, The BW method is much more fun to play and watch imo haha

[@BaneHydra]

In Broodwar they didn't balance because it was 1996 and nobody knew how to balance an RTS.

[@Thalaranthey]

@@BaneHydra nah dude. they balanced it a lot. release sc1 was giga cringe. spawning poo 150 minerals etc. atm its quite well balanced imo

[@faithnfire4769]

Rather the game was balanced... in the context of a terrible engine. When everyone is playing with one crutch and 4 fingers, standout abilities make perfect sense. In the rare case things line up perfectly it better make a huge impact!

[@sviatoslavkocherov6008]

btw sc2 has things that sc1 races can't counter, especially macro mechanics, but with units there are also some cases

[@airbournestrike]

All those maelstroms and no follow up psionic storm hurts my heart. Clumped up hydras and no storm

[@wulver810]

Yeah, watching MC do that combo shows how powerful it is in SC2

[@Cormalek]

Also - rushing hydras and not busting the opponents teeth in with them. It's pro level IODIS.

[@Cool_Goose]

This makes me feel old when somebody I watched for literally years doesn't know the Queen infest only works on command centers.

[@PavelAveryanov]

yeah, for me it was crazy to see queens are not able to fly at 2010 ) today we have new generation of players, who never saw units from BW

[@bmalotaux]

i tried to use it on a sc2 command center the other day and that didn't work.. so apparently it only works on sc1 terran command centers

[@Tmoy1124]

@@bmalotaux not sure if it works with sc2 CC's, but the CC needs to be down to red in health

[@raven-a]

​@@PavelAveryanov I played some Brood War back in the day in Garena but people were so viciously cheesing each other that you would never see those higher tier units 😂🎉

[@odnamsrazor2364]

Harstem has never experienced the joys of using a Dark Archon to get a triple max army.

[@bmalotaux]

i tried in this mod. but all other races units you make fall into the same supply pool so no triple max unfortunately

[@You-ul8qw]

'Is there a difference between defilers and lurkers?' - Harstem, 2024

[@Chotensai]

protip: use parasite on neutral wondering beasts for hidden UAVs

[@brianarsuaga5008]

I can't get enough of hearing the (remastered?) BW sound effects and music in SC2. It really makes it feel less like a mod and more like some crazy time travel. I love this mod

[@JFox4587]

Lmao the moment where harstem tries to “infest command center” his own hatchery with a queen 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@alltat]

To be fair, it always was an absurdly niche ability. It's really just there as a nod to events in the campaign.

[@JFox4587]

@@alltat yes, I wish you could have infested any enemy base, that woulda been better. But it’s basically a fancy baneling. SC2 really didn’t have many new ideas, they basically just recycled and renamed a bunch of BW units

[@rozmarinideas5340]

​@JFox4587 ah yes, the famous sc1 units of Adepts, Sentries, Stalkers, Void Rays, Phoenixes, Oracles, Motherships, Reapers, Marauders, Widow Mines, Hellions/Hellbats, Cyclones, Thors, Vikings, Liberators, Medivacs, Ravens, Roaches, Ravagers, Overseers, Infestors, Vipers, Corruptors, Brood Lords, Swarm Hosts, Planetary Fortresses, Spine/Spore Crawlers, and MULEs, along with such well known sc1 mechanics as Chrono Boost, Spawn Larvae, Creep Tumors, Orbital Commands, and Reactors. Yeah, Sc2 didn't invent any of those, really there's no differnece between the games, except Sc2 is worse!

[@JFox4587]

@@rozmarinideas5340 spawn larvae?! 🤪🤪 Chill man, I love sc2. It’s just obvious that a lot of things were remakes. A stalker is clearly a dragoon, with the ability to blink added on. I’m not gonna go thru the whole list, but there’s more. Firebat/hellbat, etc. Anyways, I like this game, I just think there’s lots BW did right, so they reinvented the wheel a bit on some units. Not all, clearly.

[@rozmarinideas5340]

@JFox4587 Yeah, the Queen ability. It's a pretty massive difference between brood war zerg and sc2 zerg. Stalkers are also nothing like Dragoons. The only thing they share is tech level and both being ranged units. A Dragoon is a bulky, long-range, slow firing heavy hitter. A Stalker is a fast, highly mobile, low health skirmisher/ambusher. What about them is similar? I'll give you Hellbats, but just barely, since they have a similar role to Firebats and are clearly meant to be a callback. You brought sc2 into the conversation out of nowhere to insult it, I was pointing out that you apparently missed that the majority of units and mechanics are different between the two and that most sc2 units have no analogue in sc1. Both games are good, and I'm sick of hearing how sc2 is somehow terrible in comparison to bw. I'm glad you like the game, but it didn't seem like it.

[@lordcola-3324]

This mod coud really revive SC2. They should have tournaments with it and continue to balance it!

[@svsv1191]

hell yeah lets have tournaments and make a separate ladder

[@mothrahlurker788]

What does revive even mean. This is a niche hype thing that gets significantly less viewers than sc2 tournaments and is very likely gonna mostly disappear in a few months.

[@unlearningify]

There was already a Evo Tourny from AfreecaTV using GSL SC2 Pros and ASL SC1 Pros! Check it out!

[@cavemantero]

@@mothrahlurker788 SC BW was and is the biggest E-sport ever. In fact, it pioneered E-sports. SC2 ruined it because of bad choices from management & design (aka...muh zerg!)

[@windwindy5356]

If they try to balance it then it will stay lol.

[@iljavija]

Back in the day when we played in LAN when we needed to find out what tech we need we shouted questions!

[@archip8021]

Great vid, love it you're talking while playing versus each other

[@pamsp]

Casters in SC1 are way stronger because they were a pain to micro

[@Avermra]

it was also because it was back in era where multiplayer games have barely taken off so pvp balance is like the last thing on their list as opposed to just having cool abilities.

[@aloe7794]

​@@Avermra yeah that's kind of why arbiter's stun is 45 sec, defiler nulifies all ranged damage to 1 and dmatrix makes targets nigh invincible

[@caelestigladii]

@@AvermraThey are fully aware about multiple tv companies broadcasting bw tournaments in s.korea during that time.

[@genericnameinc]

@@Avermra except sc1 was and is basically *the* competitive multiplayer game. It has years of balancing patches for multiplayer behind it. Kinda silly to say it'd be balanced around single player at this point. Though I guess you mean the general ability design was initially more single player focused? Maybe.

[@matth1005]

You're right, I feel like Artosis is both strong and a pain to micro

[@2012kreed]

Oh, Wow! As soon as he called for Queens I realized his error (although the files in my brain were so old it took about a full 30 seconds to dust them off, before a mental picture of the unit popped into my mind). I severely miscalculated Harstem; I started out on SC1.... spent years e-mailing Bilzzard to make another Starcraft... Eventually I gave up on them.... Finally when SC2 came out (at about $100 if I remember correctly) I didn't leave home for a month LOL! Considering the skill level Harstem is at (way beyond mine - seriously I lose to this guy in my *own* dreams!... but then again I suck, so a cat could probably best me smh), I incorrectly thought most people started the same way. I should have know something was up because a while back Either Lowko or Harstem (I forget which, but I think was Lowko) asked If a ghost could read minds. This should have been a no-brainer to anyone who remembers when: "Jim met Sarah!" WOW!!!! what a flash back! oh no! My age is showing again!

[@TheSuperappelflap]

100 dollars? Are you Australian? It was 60 USD and Euro.

[@xela6349]

In Sc1 you need more macro hatcheries. Basically it isn't unusual to have three at one base

[@MsHojat]

Well it is definitely rather unusual to have 3 at one base unless you count natural+expansion as a single base. Since generally you wouldn't want more than 2 per mineral patch, even if you're not going to be mining on a mineral patch yet.

[@henkhenkste6076]

@@MsHojat noob

[@RPBiohazard]

upgrading to hive so you can inject with your queens is ADORABLE

[@hayatokun1427]

complaints about the brood queen, huh? been like 20 years... :)

[@2012kreed]

Oh, Wow! As soon as he called for Queens I realized his error (although the files in my brain were so old it took about a full 30 seconds to dust them off, before a mental picture of the unit popped into my mind). I severely miscalculated Harstem; I started out on SC1.... spent years e-mailing Bilzzard to make another Starcraft... Eventually I gave up on them.... Finally when SC2 came out (at about $100 if I remember correctly) I didn't leave home for a month LOL! Considering the skill level Harstem is at (way beyond mine, I incorrectly thought most people started the same way. I should have know something was up because a while back Either Lowko or Harstem (I forget which, but I think was lowko) asked If a ghost could read minds. This should have been a no-brainer to anyone who remembers when: "Jim met Sarah!" WOW!!!!

[@bmalotaux]

@@2012kreed you pig! :p

[@XaviXDJoR]

Here before the captain realizes he can do "beating sc2 race with SC1 protoss using mind control on his miner race and beating him with hit"

[@L3monsta]

Miner race? You mean worker?

[@Satelitko]

11:53 - Brood War zerg used to build multiple hatcheries per base to increase larva production, and it was also easier to macro because you could multi-select all the larva at the same time.

[@maudiojunky]

22:02 Dark Archons expend their entire shield when they mind control, at least in BW, so they're very vulnerable after using it.

[@lordcola-3324]

Harstem discovering the game is so fun!

[@chir0pter]

so funny to see Harstem in real time discover the reason why macro hatches are considered a bit of a throwback in SC2 and why people build a ton of them in Sc1

[@linusgustafsson2629]

The thing with sc1 was horrible pathing, so it feels like the races automatically would be vastly superior if they can just walk to the target.

[@MsHojat]

There's that, but there's also the fact that players were limited to selecting only 12 units maximum at a time, and could not smart cast spells. It's possible that the spellcasters still cannot smart cast spells (I think that can be done in SC2), but if the unit selection isn't limited then that will definitely play a huge factor. I think 10 years ago when I played one of these it did limit the unit selection, but I think this one does not limit it.

[@PantoniStrikesBack]

Mind control not only costs 150 energy. It also depletes the shields of the Dark Archon (or so it was in BW). So 150 energy + 225 shields. But I think you didn't need to have full shield to use it, just the energy.

[@pivot203]

you can see burrowed unit with your command center's comsat station

[@DecisivelyVague2]

Hope you spend some more time with this mod and Protoss. You’re one of my two favorite SC2 Toss players, and I think it would be very cool to see you pick up Brood War Protoss. Won’t help your professional progress, I understand, but it would be great for content. Thanks for the continued great content Captain!

[@edd8914]

I love watching Harstem learn SC1 in real time. ❤

[@theturqouisetomato2991]

I think BW Zerg is why all campaign mission Zerg bases have 3-4 macro hatches in them, the AI don’t know how injects work in the new game!

[@trufflepudding4704]

Well we used to double hatch every base back then to have larva 😂

[@Thalaranthey]

@@trufflepudding4704 more than double hatch per base usually

[@TheSuperappelflap]

Its moreso to make the campaign playable for noobs. Inject in WoL and HotS spawned 4 larva, in LotV it was nerfed to 3. If the AI in the WoL campaign did injects and used all the larva you would need to be a pretty good player to survive the onslaught.

[@sketybel1]

Those sc1 lines trigger member berries lol 'Jacked up and good to go!'

[@MsHojat]

Doesn't take a telepath to know what _you're_ thinking.

[@anzyroadside2374]

They really did Queens dirty. There's no lore reason for the Queens to lose their flight after the Brood Wars.

[@Diogenes2077]

43:15 Kevin:'I'm stuck between a rock...' 43:25 Rick:'No, Kevin' Supply going down by 60 in about 2 seconds and we have to wait till the game is over to actually see what happened there. But it's totally worth the wait. It's like an army of lemmings marching down a cliff.

[@vinceb8123]

The "..but no adepts" at 12:33 was said at the exact cadence of Schlatt's "..but no games" and it cracked me up

[@yevgenyiyeet8737]

would you rather have unlimited dragoons but no adepts. OR. Adepts, unlimited adepts but no adepts

[@KeppyKep]

This was hilarious. Especially how you were having your mind blown every 10 seconds in the first game.

[@bundlesofun9568]

Watching harstem make a BW queen is the most magical thing ever

[@Kaiasky]

Hello Harstem I think you should try Go (strategy board game). 1) because it is another game popular in Korea, but 2) because while you have said you are not very smart, Go is not like chess; it mostly involves positional judgement, like knowing when to take a fight or when to retreat and hope your opponent gives you a chance for a better engagement later. When you talk about your thinking in a SC2 match, it feels very similar to how a Go player would think. In the same way you might not know how to play BW Zerg it feels like you might not know the basics, but once you learned them you would quickly understand the strategy.

[@mothrahlurker788]

No, there is a ton of theory knowledge in Go, sure some simple stuff like ladders he could pick up quickly but there is a lot to it before he could play against someone with experience.

[@Evilstealer404]

Since it is a mod, sadly ranked automatch is not available for it. Would be cool to play it on a regular basis.

[@lowkeygaming2514]

it seems like sc2 races can play like sc2 zerg vs brood war races because their eco is way superior (mules, inject, chrono). so it's up to the brood war player to do damage early just like in sc2 PvZ and TvZ

[@wtfill]

The moment when Harstem realised that Queen in BW is absolutelly different unit is brilliant :)

[@LeafMaltieze]

It's really funny seeing Harstem, who usually seems to know everything there is to know about StarCraft, bumble around not knowing the most basic things about Brood War.

[@SneakyJoeRu]

Today I knew about the game more than a pro gamer. Today was a nice day.

[@bmalotaux]

he would still kick my ass though, while he was reading all the hover text and figuring out what units do :D

[@MaxVaughn]

Love these videos! I like the talking to each other while playing. It was interesting and entertaining.

[@maudiojunky]

41:13 Valkyries brother, they added Valkyrie and Corsair to BW specifically to counter muta

[@MsHojat]

Yes but they were never used. Scouts, Dark Archons, Queens, Devourers, and Valkyries were the units nobody used unless it was like some "fastest map" trash (or maybe sometimes a BGH). Technically they would get some rare use, but they were never core to any competitive play even at an amateur level. You were considered to be weird or even bad to use them.

[@thisnamewerx0350]

Someone needs to show Harstem that medics can blind detectors and remove their detection

[@mr420quickscops2]

"I think that's cool but, that you have to manually click the shield batteries" "No."

[@nytmaire74]

harstem clearly hasnt heard of brenda and the incident

[@15gloriousminutes]

i wish we could read the hovertext too

[@dkdevil3490]

This mod has been some of the most fun I've had watching starcraft 2 players in a while.

[@roarmalf]

Lol, on the last BW video someone commented "just wait till he finds out Hydras are 1 supply"

[@yqq]

@Harstem You can rebind the broodwar hotkeys, just go to the normal hotkey customization menu and it's there (I couldn't believe it either)

[@MangoPingu]

"Is it imba or do I slay?"

[@michaelbuckers]

Is it imba or do I suck? Featuring your boy Harstem.

[@unlearningify]

"Oh I won already? Man Zerg is really easy."

[@3v1lp1ngv1n]

You're right about sc2 being a good engine, but i believe Blizzard modified their terms of service around the release of warcraft 3 reforged so that they own every mod created in their engines forever, so that's never gonna happen.

[@JordanBergstrom]

Harstem, you never even got to the dark Archon or defiler!

[@YoutubeRemarks1965]

If toss mind controls your drone or scv they can build buildings and then an additional 200 supply of Zerg!

[@plaaplaa]

This mod is great fun to watch, hope you do more

[@HughStanton]

The mutas are the same stats in both games. It's actually the turrets that are much weaker in Broodwar

[@ineptengineer]

You should host a mini tournament with this mod

[@HiroTeaShi]

Queen in SC1 was good. But because the opportunity cost of having to micro each one individually made them pretty uncommon. But with SC2's spellcaster QoL...

[@loganmyall660]

Sc1 zerg gets macro hatches between their second and third for larva and creep spread

[@MsHojat]

I'm surprised how much it seemed like they had no idea what they were doing considering that they are SC2 pros (I know they are off-racing though). Although to be fair even though I played SC1 for nearly a decade and SC2 for many years I'd be really rusty at playing since it's _been_ well over a decade since I last played SC1, and probably close to a decade since I played much SC2 I find it funny that he thought queens were OP considering how they were never really used. Although personally I loved using them, at least vs terran. They can't really do much vs protoss due to reavers and archons not being targetable (and dragoons while considered bio are kind of weak vs zerg, or at least not gas heavy) Same sort of thing with Dark Archons too. They weren't really used either- at least for an ultra-long time. I think by the time SC2 came out a couple pro protoss players might have occasionally been using them a little, but they were never "core" required units in any match-up, and generally thought of as weak/bad. One thing I'm surprised neither of them knew was that Mind control removes all shields from the DA. That's mostly what makes DAs never used (since they generally instantly die if they mind control), but they do still work well against BCs and carriers. I haven't tested it, but I think that SC1 terran is/would-be the strongest because the unlimited selection ability and better pathing make marine+medic an insane force to deal with. I remember fighting against a good player who used M&M with hacks to select all his units and he just stomped.

[@DiverDrive428]

Hydras only cost 1 supply in Brood War but they are also less powerful

[@crimson35124]

damn, sc1 protoss can mind control all 6 races here and make a 1200 supply deathball

[@Croyvile]

This video just serves as proof that Harstem was bullying Artosis for no reason the other day.

[@dkdevil3490]

Shame You didn't get to see a queen infest a command center. I was really hoping to see it in your last match. No idea how viable it is, but it's really cool to be pumping out zerg marines.

[@gostonbenjamin]

Very funny to see you to struggle with SC1 zerg abilities :'D but you still a good player

[@beastierbeast5569]

There is a sc1 in sc2 mod, I forgot what it was called, but it's quite fun

[@reighzhor1058]

I really hope to see BW mods for the campaigns. Hopefully soon.

[@Kerostasis]

SC2 Zerg has the weakest units but best eco compared to Protoss and Terran. Broodwar Zerg was the exact opposite - the worst eco but the best and most busted units. And yes all SC1 races had busted stuff, but Zerg clearly had the best of it. Partly balanced by just never having enough drones. I assume the Evo mod changes that balance a little bit - for example losing one of your first four (4!) drones to make an early spawning pool is just a big hit compared to starting on 12.

[@MsHojat]

Yeah, there's the issue of having to build 2 gas extractors and mine from 2 of them as well though. So starting with more workers might not be sufficient to really change anything, and the gas change might make things even worse for them.

[@Cormalek]

SC1 vs SC2 are a perverse version of IODIS. Also - why has nobody told @Harstem about The Eraser?!?

[@MsHojat]

How does gas and mineral mining work? because in the original game you'd get only 1 geyser and 8 gas per trip. -I guess that is insignificant compared to potential unit balance issues between SC1 and SC2 races though.- This could be a big problem for zerg in particular (believe it or not) because they have the biggest worker bottleneck in SC1 (=lowest worker count), due to having to share production with attacking units, and having to spend 4 more drones to get the same amount of gas could be a big problem for such a gas heavy race (zerg was super gas heavy in SC1)

[@anderskjaer]

"Granting vision of everything the unit can see. Effect last indefinitely. That sounds... not broken at all" hahaha.

[@Tom_a_youtube_commentor]

It used to be insanely broken before the first balance patch: 50 mana, super long range (like two screens). Once a zerg player had a queen all of your units would soon have parasites, so the zerg knew everything.

[@lucasgranath3853]

Yay sortof I loved watching him in wings of liberty

[@christopherjohnson2171]

Are you playing SC Evo Complete or SC Evo Complete: Crossover Edition? In your first video you displayed Crossover Edition but I've since learned that the two mods are quite a bit different.

[@llamadelreyii3369]

I think people are just playing the complete version which is the main one(crossover and legacy are not the focus right now). the creators said they want to complete the mod first (just assets left for now) and balance the main version and then focus on the remake(think mass recall but more in SC2 style of campaign) There they will add things and maybe they can get into the complete version.

[@dijerido7062]

I heard that sc1 workers accelerate faster, so they mine faster. Because they don’t have a mechanic like mules, overcharging oder injection.

[@tylerrussell-wg3qk]

Love watching reactions to BW units lol. I’d watch a full video of just initial reactions to each BW unit

[@trev6783]

I'm not far in, but in BW, zerg used to just build lots of lairs to get more spawning. Obviously this is why the queen was invented, but when in rome.

[@Samsanity]

This man has never heard of a macro hatch

[@gabrielpowers766]

Seems like I remember an upgrade for turrents. It's at the academy or the engineering bay mayube?

[@caelestigladii]

I’m sure academy only has stim, u238, restore, flare, and caduceus. Ebay(lol) only has weapon and armor upgrades.

[@yunwenlei3383]

Queens? How about science vessels? They are much more imba when against zerg. Both sc1 zerg and sc2 zerg

[@marcinluter1195]

Brenda used to fly and now some people have retrospection, and pants full of poop :p

[@tonaka86]

SC1 can defend good at 80/200 units if only have defiler.

[@darkalley8595]

Great content!

[@videosideeffect]

very cool and entertaining video! 🤩

[@sanohoang]

Hey Captain, you should BW Toss, drop 1 dark archon, mind control 2 sc2 workers and bring them home to build both races LOL

[@CatzyCatzy]

HARSTEM SAYS...IT IS IMBA!!!! OH MAAAAAAAN!!!!!

[@simplytav]

Does this foreshadow sc evo IODIS?

[@3v1lp1ngv1n]

bw protoss does have recall it's on the arbiter

[@timiddrake]

Go Go! 2vs2s!

[@viniciusmagrin]

Inject in CS bw: do more drones

[@bijiont942]

Yeah, remember SC1 macro hatch's were a thing.

[@47StormShadow]

The way this is going to shake out is that SC1 players will have to rely on superior static D and spellcasters while the SC2 players rely on my diverse and specialized army comps.

[@madumlao]

You can't make a game with the starcraft engine. Unless you are okay with Blizzard owning it completely. It's in the current terms of service of the campaign editor.

[@fred.dekker]

great Mod - love BW and to see more mixed games

[@lucius8675]

Is this an older video that he just posted? I could have sworn he found about queen days ago.

[@aussj4link214]

I like the original announcer so much better than the sc2.

[@dipsnipers]

when harstem laughs i laugh its automatic

[@ethanaleman]

Fun friends.

[@user-uo5yf6pg5x]

It's so imbalanced that it looses every single match you make some of these instead of mutas... xD

[@Shoes51]

love this mod content its great