This VR headset could've changed everything. But why didn't it?

The Pico Neo 2 is an amazing headset that has completely occlusion less controller tracking that still beats out the controllers of today. But where is it now?
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[@moonut9643]

As a DIY vr nerd myself the begining of this video really got me excited. As someone who usses a rift cv1 as full body now days, I truly did not expect that amount of software support issues that plague the neo 2. If those issues weren't there I most likely would have gladly switched from my quest 2, but pico's quest of becoming the chinesium of the vr industry has ruined any chance of that happening. This form of tracking I feel would have paved the way to some cool things. Reminds me of the time I used an old WMR headset with no controllers with a really scuffed pair of Razer Hydra controllers from like 2013, Those controllers tracked similarly to this but unfortunately the support for them ended up being horrible and the wired nature of them really made them not be good for vr at all, this tech really has potential if done right. Anyways rambling over :p, Great video as always!

[@mcmadness110]

The original magic leap used the same tracking system.

[@Heza]

wait I watched the whole thing just to realize you're EXTREMELY underrated

[@stephenholmgren405]

People just trying VR for the 1st time using the Quest 3 don't know how lucky they are

[@golem_videomaking]

fr, my truly first home vr experience was in 2014 with a smartphone based headset with a cheap tracker and an xbox kinect, i didn't even have motion controller and resolution was like less than 360p per eye. and i remember buying all the parts to do that for like 200 bucks, plus the phone plus the pc, being able to play only mods of really old flat games. but it was still amazing for the time, the first time i tried 6dof it was like magic

[@arthurpfarchive]

First real vr experience of mine was when i got my quest 2 earlier this year. Ahout other experiences i did do some things with riftcat that didn't work out

[@D1ohiobandit]

fr, they get color passthrough

[@FemboyKiyo]

I now understand how lucky I am

[@CuppaLiber-tea]

It’s my first home vr headset, I’ve only used the ones at arcades as a roller coaster sim.

[@Cai_VR]

Fire the youtube employee that made the video scheduler, istg i cant take a nap without something going wrong lmao

[@minimal301]

Why😂

[@5sibROBLOX]

Do you have a discord server?

[@FNaFtoys-vp5ub]

Pls make toturiral for the haptic vest

[@5sibROBLOX]

@@FNaFtoys-vp5ub seconded

[@ten10_ten10]

Cai VR video? Absolutely splendid.

[@TheShortBusWasTaken]

It’s absolutely criminal you only have 4k subs. The quality of this video is amazing!

[@adicsbtw]

I really wish someone would come around and put the controller tech of the Neo 2 into a modern, more accessible headset. Hell I'd try to DIY it myself if I could wrap my head around the physics for tracking them

[@WestonHawk]

Nice deep dive! I'm looking forward to the video on your thoughts on SlimeVR

[@Judie-Nator]

I wonder why no other headset designer hasn't used a mix of electromagnetic tracking and camera tracking for their controlers. It's probably cheaper than placing cameras on the controlers

[@golem_videomaking]

and it's way cheaper relying only on a couple of infrared dots and ai like quest 3. only in vrchat people get these strange "irl" body and arms positions, in most of other experiences there's absolutely no reason to having that feature today

[@Wooskii1]

I've been wondering the same thing since it came out (another one had it also). Cameras + EM tracking always seemed like the best solution (short of base) stations to me. Maybe accelerometers would still be needed, but I would be happy to pay extra for true 360° tracked controllers (unlike AR functionality)

[@golem_videomaking]

@@Wooskii1 em doesn't work after a certain distance, like an arm long, and more you go far more it doesn't work correctly

[@googleslocik]

Profit margins for sure. Cant pack too much tech and still make money.

[@Actually-Rose]

Glad to see ya back

[@bulletthecorgi3245]

that meme you made with the barrel jack on the headset had me WHEEZING (6:50)

[@jaxondabac8808]

imagine if valve tries this electromagnetic tracking on their standalone headset

[@InfVR]

The reason why they changed to the ring tracking aproach is prolly bc the XR2 that the pico 3 and quest 2 as well as many other headsets are now running on was built with this kind of tracking in mind. meaning that potentially using a different approach for tracking may mean that it will use a bit more processing power and thus have an overall lower performance compared to other headsets. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. thats just what I have heard throughout the years of XR2 headsets

[@Cai_VR]

I believe you're roughly right, but id say its more due to the Base qualcomm design just happening to utilise that kind of tracking, on top of the more cameras being able to be used for more things like hand tracking. Plus less controller power consumption and complexity. At the end of the day i reckon the mag tracking would actually be more suited for other kinds of devices like standalone FBT, at least if the tracking quality cant get much better from what it is currently. Tho who knows with the Quest 3 and its hybrid LED/hand tracking controller approach lol

[@MrStumpson]

The under blanket tracking is extremely impressive

[@LARVideos]

I think the combination between magnetic tracking and the current optical tracking of the Quest 3 would be amazing.

[@animenightcores1502]

(13:14) if your just wanting a dumb repeat of the thing.

[@re.dfined]

Not relating the video, but i have watched alot of videos of yours, and i really love them, they are so high quality. Keep it up!

[@julianmazzola]

The way I had an eBay browser tab open with my mouse hovering over "buy it now" until you reached the bit about no IPD adjustment

[@Nick72c]

Enjoyed the historic development path aspects of this. Nice video.

[@lunarstarfurry]

Would be interesting to combine Electromagnetic and Camera based on a pair of controller.

[@TheRaccoonCatYT]

Its so sad the controller tracking never popped off. Imagine if Pico would use this to build a new headset centered around it with this tracking technology for controllers and fullbody. It would be an instant buy for so many people!

[@adicsbtw]

Unfortunately, the physics behind the tracking solution make it super difficult to do over long ranges. Most technologies suffer from the "inverse square law", wherein being twice as far away makes the signal 4x worse. Magnetic tracking has that but even worse, with an "inverse cube law" if you will. Going twice as far away makes the signal 8x worse, so tracking anywhere beyond just a few feet with any kind of accuracy and consistency is nearly impossible. You'd still need some other tracking solution to help anchor the magnetic tracking properly I think the best you could do really would be some kind of waist mounted hub to track everything from so that FBT can work without getting too far away for it to run reasonably, and then using some kind of external tracking solution like cameras or base stations to anchor the headset itself and extrapolate the rest of the tracking with

[@gnuffe7778]

This vid has some unbeliveible quality. Subbed!

[@DiamondDepthYT]

Dude, I watch your videos every time one comes out, and I just realized I'm not subbed. So.. new sub. Also, love the Bonelab music

[@PlaCrown]

Excellent videos my guy

[@Alexorsumidk]

This dude is so criminally underrated and incredibly funny, no glazing, just great fucking content

[@exodous02]

can't see why they didn't bring the controllers over though, that seemed like a huge selling point and it worked.

[@Rah-pu5jn]

Because there would be a lot of interference with the controllers as other objects also give of magnetic feilds

[@Schnatter_]

i feel like the controller tracking is some insanely cool technology that needs to be redone better, the slight sway when you are keeping them still is something that if fixed, would probably be able to turn the controller tracking design into the standard for vr, sucks the the rest of the headsets features are mediocre at best though, maybe ripping the tracking from these controllers, and throwing it together with quest button layout, and headset would be nice

[@Cai_VR]

Indeed lol. I'd imagine a similar approach to the Quest 3's controllers with the hybrid hand tracking would suit it well

[@terracottastudios5345]

imagine that tracking solution as a FBT tracker lol

[@Darnder]

Tracking becomes much less accurate the further from the receiver the trackers get. Like Cai says at 8:00, the practical range is about arm’s length

[@tonicwater2104]

I need a personal photo of that red panda plush toy

[@samma-pixelstudio]

unfortunatelly your right.... updates made for a different headset that has a different set of cameras tend to break calibration for the cameras of the previous gen.... unless you compile two different version for the two gens of headsets

[@jubinha]

My first time hearing about this magnetic tracking system/method and oh my god why is this not still a thing, specially for budget headsets. You could make a great VR headset (standalone or PC VR) with 1 or 2 cheap wide cameras instead of a goddamn dozen like it's kind of the standard now

[@Cray-Z-303]

Good to see you drop a new video!

[@toututu2993]

VR is already amazing but the lack of enough softwares and support is the only downside. Cannot wait until we have infrared quality inside out 360 degree full body tracking, that is when VR/AR obviously destroy everything devices related 😊

[@tryuhar]

7:31 couldve had the best edit of the neo 2

[@blitzar8443]

Amazing video I love defunct tech with missed potential

[@imeanyeah1652]

I would love to see a video on using a quest or quest pro for full body tracking with slime vr for hip tracking. This is the method I use, you stream tracking reference only on amvr for the headset and connect another to steam vr. I would especially love to see if this headset could do the same with it's occlusionless tracking. It is a bit of trouble to set up the first time but it had great results.

[@Tommy-qe6fh]

Thanks for the video, I remember looking at those reviews a bit after the Quest 2 came out. Crazy how pico just slaughtered it by forgetting about it. I wonder how much space inside the headset the electromagnetic tracking took up?

[@Cai_VR]

Barely any as far as I can tell, it feels hollow lol. The bulk of the hardware is in the controllers, the headset only needs to 'listen out' for the signal coming from them with its sensors.

[@DrierHyperion21]

The PSVR2 Sense controllers are my favorite controllers in VR. The hand tracking on those work perfectly too and never lose tracking.

[@CptJistuce]

The all-around tracking hoop makes it very hard to obscure the IR LEDs. It is a surprisingly smart design to have gone undone for so long.

[@guesswho2778]

Yeah the psvr2 controllers are really good. The only thing I don't like about them is the side grips, but I can get used to that

[@firewulf1]

You are right, my arms fell off and they stopped tracking. I am typing this with my nose

[@Le_Rappel_des_oiseaux]

In pico neo 3 they did fix performance and streaming issue (pico connect), but totally ruins their controllers. They so laggy and glitchy, that its so close to "unusable"

[@owomushi_vr]

12v is the jack on the back it's the same as the dp power specs

[@lavarsch]

The only thing that is "bad" about the video is the audio popping 😅. besides that, awesome video :3

[@Yaya0001]

Probably could have tried an older version of steamvr, they usually seem to work with vrchat still, theres a betas tab you can go through and choose 1.27, and you can also just use the steam depots for any version you want, ive done this recently on linux since 2.4.4 was the last working non buggy version when 2.6.2 dropped, causing steamvr previous beta to become 2.5.5.

[@ChickenScratch]

holy crap why isnt this tracking technology use more. sure it's not perfect but its so much simpler than the quest pro controllers camera tracking an has no deadzones and no playspace misalignment. I can only assume it's cheaper and simpler to implement. With further research it would be great so see it an put into a quest 4

[@danifalkjensen]

money and time everyone except pico would need to start a bunch of r&d development to just get a working prototype, let alone integrating it into a usable headset pico might even have to do it all over again because of the changes they have made since it came out

[@witoo]

Google "Amfitrack". Not that cheep sadly...

[@yesterdaysproblem]

Would it be possible to use the ir cameras on wii remotes to make a full body tracking rig?

[@ethanshelton8497]

I wonder if this could be re-engineered and used for full body tracking

[@rcdude61221]

now I want one

[@vandiversullivan814]

I've been very interested in the eye tracking version of this headset but i can't seem to find any solid informational on if the eye tracking actually works with steam vr or not

[@Cai_VR]

I've messed around a bit with it but have held off for now because I want to try and dump the OS image because its on an older version right now. Though I would imagine that it would have some kind of foveated encoding in the Streaming assistant like Steam Link. The eye tracking on it is basically the exact the same tobii eye tracking thats on the vive pro eye, and in the pico software demos you can see online it basically has the same fidelity as far as I can tell.

[@vandiversullivan814]

@@Cai_VR That's great to hear. What do you think the odds are that I can get the eye tracking to work with VRCFaceTracking since it also uses the Tobii eye tracking like the Vive Pro Eye does?

[@Cai_VR]

@@vandiversullivan814 Theoretically it would work, but the software for it doesnt exist as far as i know. So my bet is that if the headset got a custom version of ALVR made for it that would also communicate the eye tracking data it would work and eliminate most of the critical issues. Though thats ignoring the fact that the headset is indeed a Neo 2, with all of the issues that comes with lol.

[@MR.BONES007]

ngl i didnt even know the pico came out lol and i was waiting for it

[@RibbityYT]

Never falling short of making me laugh

[@leoxfactory5986]

Very good video alltough i still dont understand why no other headsets use the electromagnetic trackiong now adays. if anybodys reading this who knows pelase comment

[@CiCaruana]

I was so excited when I found a business selling off their Neo 2 inventory for peanuts, but after buying one it didn't take me long to figure out why they wanted rid of them so aggresssively. Cool to have on display, but god does the state the software was allowed to devolve into make it feel like a wildly overengineered paperweight.

[@c6jones720]

That is definitely a problem with steam VR, as good as it is every few weeks it will behave slightly differently and be broken in some subtly different way.

[@kruemmelbande5078]

I wonder if alvr or using an old steamvr version might be able to fix anything in terms of pcvr streaming. I mean, alvr has pretty wide hardware compatibility, so it might be able to do something

[@Cai_VR]

I didn't go too much into it in the vid itself cause its enough of a rabbit hole on its own, but any ALVR versions I could find will not install on the headset because its running android 8 rather than the android 10 I believe most other headsets run; and the Neo 2 isn't actually OpenXR compliant, which ALVR is dependant on to function properly. It would require Quite a bit of adapting to get something like that working for the Neo 2, but I think it could work.

[@XR7810FOX]

i always liked pico more than oculus. they always managed to have some really good reason or just directly beating oculus

[@nootpooty]

HES BACK

[@Dj-vrYT]

They just need to make it a full body tracker

[@Unnamedgorilla]

I know this might sound dumb but if you have fbt trackers and not using them could you just put them on your rist so they would track better

[@Alexorsumidk]

This is incredibly interesting ngl

[@laoo]

lmao the outro

[@xgamercat]

0:09 bonelab music!!!

[@Charaltontin]

Pico neo with the meta OS 👀

[@Blackout_vr2]

Omg how have I not heard about this 😭😭

[@lunarz7117]

Is it possible to use that extract that controller tracking and use it else where?

[@Cai_VR]

👀

[@quadrplax]

I wonder if there's any possibility you could downgrade the OS on the headset to a version from before the Neo 3 came out? Although it may limit software compatibility, that sounds like it could resolve many of the issues you're having.

[@flamingscar5263]

there is hope in a device like this, small hope, but hope none the less, if someone found a root for this headset and opened up the bootloader, it should be possible to sideload an old, more functional, version of the headsets OS, that is if ANYONE still has it on their headset and could rip it off of the headset

[@Hufi2.]

Fyi you can install standard apks on the quest

[@djcranejr.3045]

Wii Remote Accelerometer on steroids and then some

[@neo_ds]

fbt with this tech would have been cool,

[@brennanIX]

Why no mention or comparisons to the Quest 3? I don't even think you said the word three in the whole video. I thought it was a new video when I clicked on it, but I had to re-check, because I was convinced this was a year old video, since it seems like you hadn't known about the existence of the quest 3. Odd, just kinda curious why this was, especially with so much mentions of the quest 2 throughout the video. I'm still convince this was an old video uploaded not until way later, or just a re-upload.

[@chrysophade210]

i dont see a bigscreen in the problem pile yet lmao

[@Cheesecannon25]

Did you upgrade your psmove system to use slime (based) trackers instead of the controllers? Ive recently been looking into it again as a more accessible high quality tracking solution and am partially set on using [single ball & a quality IMU] but havent found much info on it in my searches How has it improved over the old psmove controllers? Is the software less jank without the old hardware?

[@chaselangan4781]

psmove service has improved vastly and is still improiving with frequent updates, and I highly suggest giving it a shot especaily with the upgraded DIY imu based trackers

[@mastergolucky]

amazing video

[@HeyNitroNova]

He remembered his password

[@RealShadowBunny]

now imagine fbt using this method lol

[@fugusam]

charging wire under the shirt problem solved Einstein

[@_TNDRY_]

bro the vive wand hating part took me out🤣😂

[@jimmypatatoeyt4800]

maybe they’ll change their mind just maybe

[@ggkris1308]

do a quest pro review

[@PennPal573]

TESCO VALUE CDAWGVA IS BACK!!! Eating good tonight

[@Cai_VR]

🤤Rhy brysur un chwarae gyda'r defaid, mae'n ddrwg gen i 🗣🗣🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

[@moseses3414]

Ah yes my paper weight headset

[@dathyr1]

Well, I could care less about PICO VR headsets. If they (China) does not want to sell their products in the US, they all can go Pound Sand. So your video is a mood point to me.

[@AndyLeeVlogs]

Well yeah, pancake lenes are the new Ferrell lenses. Thats why nowadays its so outclassed in terms of weight as a whole. Pancake lenes lead to smaller headsets overall. 😅 Otherwise a 3rd party strap for Ferrell lens headsets works amazing 🎉.

[@BeatificEagle]

the reason i wont buy a pico 4 its because the pico 4 does not have all the quest 2 games

[@DD-pm2vh]

Doing hawk tuah, even here? On youtube?

[@Deyavord]

Sad that the most revolutionary tech was paired with the worst hardware known to man kind

[@Nicalay2]

Great hardware destroyed by garbage software... Not the first time that this happen, and it certainely won't be the last time...

[@jamiesalmonsculpture8599]

Pico are now a pointless company for consumer VR. They ditched it and fired their whole team. No point talking about them

[@jenbanim]

This video was an interesting look at magnetic controller tracking. Definitely not useless

[@littlenuni]

Woah one of the firstbhere

[@mattclements1348]

Probably better it failed now,the CCP is wild over there ,great vid

[@orangenal]

Can you not downgrade steamvr as well?

[@mcmadness110]

Electromagnetic controllers have interference from metal and is not precise enough for non social games and many uses.

[@Cai_VR]

Indeed, but they are surprisingly resilient. My thought is that a hybrid machine vision style approach like the Quest 3 would really help.

[@333335339]

Yeah PsVR2 wipes the floor with every other VR headsets.

[@Imhotep397]

More than likely Razer own the patent on that tech and Pico illegally infringed on that license: Product Tour: Razer Hydra PC Gaming Motion Sensing Controllers - kzbin.info/www/bejne/rF67qoaBl8aofrc&pp=ygUwUmF6ZXIgSHlkcmEgUEMgR2FtaW5nIE1vdGlvbiBTZW5zaW5nIENvbnRyb2xsZXJz

[@michaelrix3216]

Downgrade the os