This was Anakin's true destiny | Could Padme have saved him if she lived? | And more questions...

[@chasehedges6775]

Anakin is the epitome of a Tragic Villain.

[@dereklopez9060]

Agreed.

[@dancingvalkyrie]

Didn't Anakin murder a bunch of children because of a bad dream?

[@MCsCreations]

Not a villain. Vader was a villain, Anakin was a war hero.

[@zigurdur92]

@@MCsCreationswrong Anakin = Darth Vader is the same person. Their duality of Anakin Skywalker. His yin & yang. Darth Vader is the epitome of Anakin’s darkness & rage. It was Anakin as Darth Vader who attacked all those children at temple.

[@MCsCreations]

@@zigurdur92 Yes, but that's not that simple. There are basically 2 personalities fighting each other.

[@DeepDeepSpace]

Anakin chose to become Darth Vader. No one could have saved him. Anakin had to save himself. That was the whole point of the story.

[@thorskywalker]

Sure, he chose to be Vader, but only after a certain set of circumstances played out. If those circumstances change, everything else potentially changes.

[@MMZERO9]

Yet Qui-Gon surviving would have made the difference.

[@DeepDeepSpace]

@@thorskywalker Sure, if circumstances were different things could have turned out differently, but a true Jedi is someone who chooses to be a Jedi even in the face of adversity; Like Luke did at the end of Return of the Jedi. I'm sure all the Jedi had adversity in their lives they had to overcome to be a Jedi. But Anakin chose the dark path instead.

[@leonardoespino9780]

⁠​⁠@@thorskywalker I lean towards agreeing with you but in a way I don’t because of how deeply flawed anakin seemed to be written (as he is a character not a person) but there are many people that can relate to him. Anakin was written and thus showed to be a person who does not respond easily to change and thus losing a loved one. We see that on the OT as well where Vader is obsessed (as the title craw states) in finding Luke before we learn that anakin is Vader in his “I am your father” scene. We learn that Luke is the offspring, as the emperor states, of anakin skywalker and when Vader states this big secret we connect the two and see the implications. When Darth Vader kills the emperor is because the thought of losing his son motivates him to kill the emperor. When anakin was firstly taken from his mother, the council sensed the boy’s missing of her mother and thus we get yoda’s famous “fear leads to hate, hate leads into suffering…” and so on. Qui gon couldn’t control this even on the short time he was with him and in a way, we can easily construe something by saying “oh it’s the will of the force” so I a way it’s not of a strong defense that qui gon did what the force willed. So anakin then “fell in love” on padme or padme replaced that mother figure for a while that turned into love and when her mother died on his arms, it seemed that he didn’t wanted to part ways with the things he loved. When Asoka left the Jedi order, that was also hard on him as showed on the clone wars series to the point that he even build new lightsabers for her and on the rebels series still remembered and probably felt something when they saw each other. So had anakin learned to control his emotions then maybe he wouldn’t become Vader. I think that he was indeed destined to be Vader because he honestly thought he was doing good and because he wanted to save padme from dying and saw the Jedi order as an obstacle in achieving eternal happiness with her once order 66 was issued and easily turned to the dark side also because how rots showed the Jedi to be unfair to him

[@istari0]

@@DeepDeepSpace I think the point is that if Qui-Gon had lived, Anakin would have had a better chance of making the right choices.

[@raiderlove5923]

I do believe that had Padme had survived she might have been a big piece of good and positivity that might have helped Anakin reject the Dark Side of The Force. If any of that makes sense.

[@CloneScavengerVulpin8389]

Obi-wan once said in the clone wars micro series "nothing is set in stone it is our decisions that shapes our destiny."

[@dereklopez9060]

If Qui Gon Jinn were still alive, Anakin wouldn't have fallen.

[@chasehedges6775]

Maybe, maybe not

[@YodaSmokes]

@@chasehedges6775 he didn’t need a “brother” he needed a father figure. Qui-gon was apart of the “duel of the fates”. It was Anakins fate being decided in that dual. However this is what was destined. This is when the dark side started to bring balance back to the force, the Jedi has too much power and had become complacent (besides qui gon) Which is what was suppose to lead the the “grey jedis” that take place after Anakin fulfills his destiny and brings balance to the force. The grey Jedi use both light and dark, in perfect balance. At least that’s my interpretation of everything.

[@DeepDeepSpace]

I think Anakin still would have fallen. He could not let go of his mother nor could he let go of Padme. Qui Gon would have had no control over that.

[@tinybee7780]

I've always wondered if Palpatine would've somehow pitted Anakin and Obi-Wan against each other even if Qui-Gon ended up winning the Duel of the Fates. If I remember Obi-Wan was the one who was initially against training Anakin during episode 1 so maybe if things went "right" Palpatine would defintiely had a contingency plan and even use the angle of supporting Obi-Wan's fears that he was right - that it really was a mistake for Anakin to be trained. It's definitely an interesting what-if scenario, though I don't really know if that is enough to cause any one of them turning to the dark side since I don't know how Qui-Gonn will do if he finds out that Ankain is in love with Padme.

[@chrisphillips348]

That dude who wrote the last question has brought up a GREAT point!! I NEVER thaought it was Annika!! That’s brilliant in a way!!

[@Milothemighty10]

I’m just watching return of the Jedi and more then ever the ending with anakins redemption is perfect…

[@AncestorEmpire1]

Ultimately Anakin was responsible for the actions he took. Just like how we’re responsible for the actions we take. Somber Anakin had a harder hill to climb, but his downfall his ultimately his fault and his has no one but himself to blame.

[@arwinaBlu_Kat]

I’ve always thought padme could save Vader if she survived.

[@swolecapybara]

Hey Thor, do you prefer the Legends or canon explanation of kyber crystals, how they’re obtained, and how they’re attuned to Force users and their lightsabers? Personally, I like the Legends explanation that synthetic crystals could be used for Sith lightsabers (and Luke’s green one), but I actually feel that the new canon has handled kyber lore really well. I especially like the explanations for bleeding and purifying the crystals. Also, have you read the new canon story of how Luke gets his green crystal?

[@dankokamcevski]

Thanks for answering my question so thoroughly!

[@jahollan]

Awesome force summary. Well reasoned and thoughtful. Nice to have a place to hear about the deeper meaning

[@Flaris]

I don’t know. I feel like Anakin had fallen too far to be saved by Padme at that time. Needed to fall a bit further and settle into that before Luke could step in to do it. But maybe. Would be nice to think she could.

[@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343]

I really don’t think so. Padme like everyone else ignored the dark parts of Anakin and pretended like they weren’t as big of a deal as they should have been. Even if she did love Anakin, she along with Obi Wan and the council never took the necessary actions to help Anakin through his darkness in the way he needed. She kept screaming at him to come back to her rather than seeing that this side was always apart of him and that the Emperor just allowed to be free. Luke however saw all of what his father was, good and bad and loved all of him. His never ending compassion saw Vader as a human being rather than just the monster and once he found out the truth, chose to to try to save him rather than abandon him as everyone else did. Luke was always the one that would save Anakin because he was probably the only one other than his mother that loved him unconditionally. Yes Anakin was loved by many in his time as a Jedi but it was always what they thought he was rather than what he actually was.

[@GAdmThrawn]

6:52 To continue this line of thread, a good indicator of someone with Force sensitivity that hasn't lost touch with it or was not formally trained are those in a leadership position and skilled in combat. As we've seen in Anakin, someone who isn't formally trained can have enhanced reflexes and "see" things before they happen. You can also be incredibly charismatic and convince people to follow you.

[@BogeyTheBear]

In my headcanon, one of the forces that drove Anakin to the dark was a love triangle between Anakin, Padme, and (a much younger and single) Bail Organa. Padme was pressured between the diplomat and the adventurer, the leader and the warrior. Both men were fighting the same cause in different ways, and Padme _did_ love Anakin more in the end. But by then it was too late-- he was on the path to the dark side. She would live out the rest of her short life mourning the husband she lost, missing the son she hid, and caring for her daughter under the aegis of Organa on Alderaan. In short, she would not have been able to save Anakin.

[@Loki_Yogi]

Anakin/Vader, for me, is easily the best and most tragic character in Cinema history. 🙏

[@YodaSmokes]

Laws go out the window when dealing with powerful wizards

[@morgansheppy1584]

I’ve always thought that the ‘Return of the Jedi’ referred to the return of the Jedi to the galaxy, it’s implied Luke will create the new order. Fuck those sequels man lol

[@Hanoua2]

Vader would have for sure betrayed Palpatine to be back with Padme, but the interesting thing would be... What happen next ? Padme was ready to run away with him even after she heard he murdered most of the jedi. Would she have turn him to the republic to be arrested ? Or run away with him ?

[@dizehjvegnomis]

hey @thor skywalker, when vader/anakin woke up at the end of revenge of the sith, he only asks palpatine about padme, not his children, and palps never mentions if they survived when padme died. did palpatine not know she was pregnant when she died - because anakin never stated his explicit fear, and thus palps never expected a skywalker to one day come for their father? did palpatine ever try to explain this lack of vision away in any of the new canon stuff? i don't remember it in the eu.

[@tomusmc1993]

Qui Gon trained Obi-wan and Obi-wan fell for the the Jedi Counsel sway. There is no indication that Qui Gon would have prevented the falling. I agree he had a better chance.

[@gerardocovarrubias3058]

Thor Skywalker do you think Anakin Skywalker could have reaches full potential and become the most powerful Jedi ever of all time in history with or without his right arm? Yes or no I’ve been asking the same question the same thing no legends canon someone please tell me. And also a Anakin being trained from birth, or by the age he was does not matter. It all depends on the best Jedi master, and the one who could’ve saved Anakin, and make him the most powerful Jedi ever of all time in history, and still allow him to be with padme was none other than qui gon jinn always and forever

[@mihailos8701]

If you want for this to get into his video, I'd recommend to add "Hey Thor," at the beginning, as Thor himself asks most of time to start questions with that

[@gerardocovarrubias3058]

@@mihailos8701 what do you think

[@raevn11]

Yup, I like your takes. Pretty much all on the same level. You know, if Disney wanted to have fun and make some money and also catter back to the fandom, it'd be fun to see a alternative universe where qui-gon does train Anakin, maul either lives or dies and Sheev chooses another apprentice, and perhaps Luke and Leia are born from a secret union but more of a one night stand rather than a full blown infatuation.... Could be interesting.

[@mr.safensound4238]

'Could' be interesting?? It would be legendary! First, we need KK to be fired and next Favreau made in charge at Lucasfilm. With Filoni's 'World between worlds', it wouldn't be hard to set up such a story. There's several ways to change history. I'd favour a version similar to 'Back to the Future'. Where Luke himself from the 'Filoniverse' timeline makes a connection with Qui-Gon to teach him about how to defeat Maul. Then, when the same fight happens and the barriers open, Qui-Gon has a better technique to best Maul. Perhaps even a version of Vaapad, since we know Luke could tap into the Dark Side without being turned. He could teach Qui-Gon this ability, and the new Star Wars story begins...

[@DeepDeepSpace]

If Qui Gon killed Maul and lived to train Anakin, then Sidious would have recruited Count Dooku to be the next Sith Apprentice. Count Dooku would eventually assassinate Sidious becoming the next Sith lord. Now you have an interesting scenario because Count Dooku is Qui Gon's former master.

[@michaelverdon7252]

Great video and I was waiting for a video like this and I do believe he would have easily turned back to the light side if padme lived

[@mpnuorva]

The Dark Side can subvert the Will of the Force, but the Force can turn the Darksider's actions against themselves with Karmic irony, or simply by the resistance of the Force becoming too difficult. However, because it's predicated on the subversion of the Will of the Force, that Karmic irony is always plan B. This is also why Jedi don't enforce membership. They both trust and need their members to act like a Jedi out of their own volition, and giving them the tools to leave if that doesnt suit them. If the Order keeps you against your will, why would you act like a Jedi? That's what happened to Anakin, except he did it to himself. Another close example from Legends would be Exar Kun using his Jedihood to corrupt a bunch of students.

[@robbiewancardigan]

I love your videos Thor, may the Force be with you always

[@DestroyerMariko]

I kinda like the fan theory that Palpatine directed Padme's lifeforce into Vader to save his life during the process of rebuilding him, or that Vader inadvertently took the life from her in his struggle to survive that process... but that would mean if she'd lived, he probably wouldn't.

[@drtaverner]

Obi-wan and Mace should never have let Anakin anywhere near Padme. Obi-wan knew Anakin had an unhealthy obsession, and he absolutely terrorizes her until her only option for survival is to give in to the powerful magic man who throws temper tantrums and murders people. She rejected him multiple times but he just gives her those predator eyes until it's too late. Skeevy Sheevy leverages that relationship telling Anakin he _should_ have what he wants and that there are secret ways to protect her against unspecified threats. I can't believe anyone thinks Anakin and Padme is a love story. She did everything she could to survive that asshole, and still died, while the Jedi Order let it happen. Imagine being alone with this guy who won't take no for an answer tells you about murdering an entire village and slaughtering the children. Yeah, she's fucked!

[@DDuffy143]

Oh wow, I just remembered, after you mentioned the “Skywalkers” in Thrawn that can navigate in real time. It reminded me. Wasn’t there a scene somewhere in Rebels, where Kanan did just that, while Hera was piloting? Or was this a false memory from something else? It also reminded me of the heist escape in Andor.

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

I've always thought "Return of the jedi" meant the concept like "The Jedi are back, not just one of them" referring to both luke and his father.

[@KrazyKryptonian]

I think the title of ROTJ has a triple meaning. It first clearly refers to Luke’s return after the events of TESB. Second, it refers to Anakin’s return, which could only happen because of Luke’s return. And third, it refers to the return of the Jedi as a whole, which is the result of Luke and Anakin’s actions.

[@SgtAJ218]

Hey Thor, I'm currently re-watching the Clone Wars with a friend to prepare for the Ahsoka series and I'm curious, what is your opinion on Commander Fox? Do you think he is the worst Clone Trooper or do you think there is someone worse than him?

[@robertlandrum1971]

Could Padme have saved Anakin? Maybe. Considering how Darth Vader wanted to use the Dark Side Nexus on Mustufar to bring Padme back, he clearly still loves Padme. If Padme had survived though, Emperor Palpatine would have regarded her as a long-term threat to him. That’s why I believe that Palpatine had a hand in her death.

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

I feel like vaders love for padame grew very twisted over the years when you look into the new eu. Between that moment in the comic and vader Immortal it's clear he cared more about bringing her back and acknowledging She'd never have wanted him to have kill so many people to have done so. He just seemed so convinced he could get her to listen to his warped point of view.

[@zigurdur92]

This scene is proof that living Padme couldn’t save Anakin after Jedi Temple attack: Anakin Skywalker: I saw your ship! What are you doing out here? Padmé: I was so worried about you! Obi-Wan... told me terrible things. Anakin Skywalker: What things? Padmé: He said... you've turned to the Dark Side, that you... killed younglings! Anakin Skywalker: Obi-Wan is trying to turn you against me. Padmé: He cares about us. Anakin Skywalker: Us? Padmé: He knows. He wants to help you. Anakin, all I want is your love. Anakin Skywalker: Love won't save you, Padmé. Only my new powers can do that. Padmé: At what cost? You're a good person. Don't do this! Anakin Skywalker: I won't lose you the way I lost my mother. I am becoming more powerful than any Jedi has ever dreamed of, and I'm doing it for you... to protect you. Padmé: Come away with me. Help me raise our child. Leave everything else behind while we still can! Anakin Skywalker: Don't you see? We don't have to run away anymore. I have brought peace to the Republic. I am more powerful than the Chancellor; I... I can overthrow him. And together, you and I can rule the galaxy... make things the way we want them to be! Padmé: I don't believe what I'm hearing! Obi-Wan was right... you've changed! Anakin Skywalker: [growing angry] I don't want to hear anymore about Obi-Wan. The Jedi turned against me. Don't you turn against me! Padmé: [crying] I don't know you anymore! Anakin... you're breaking my heart! You're going down a path I can't follow! He choose of his own free will to go down the path of darkness.

[@istari0]

I think if Qui-Gon then Anakin does not fall to the Dark Side. I think the Clone Wars still happens but is shorter and the Republic and the Jedi order survive. The question would be if they both realize the need for reforming themselves. I think the title "Return of the Jedi" refers to the return of the Jedi Order as re-established by Luke Skywalker.

[@vinnydiaz6959]

would love to see a fleshed out what if qui gon lives video or series

[@patrickbeals2416]

Hey Thor I’ve had this argument kinda with a fellow fan …I think anakin always turns to the dark side unless/ until he becomes the father and balances the force whether it was mortus arc or rotj…I don’t think it matters who trains him …just one man’s silly opinion

[@Armoless]

I'd like to point out that there were EU characters that discovered they were Firce sensitive in adult hood. Always having a good "Gut sense" and being great pilots do to the faster reflex they have. Coran Horn being one of the oldest non-Jedi trained that Luke finds during that time.

[@robertkevorkian9880]

George has always said destiny even tho it’s mentioned and the force moves and guides everything on its own path, at the end of the day it’s all about the choices our characters make. Anakin chose to betray the jedi, it wasn’t destined to happen. He chose to join the dark side. Chalking it up to destiny just seems kinda wack

[@MCsCreations]

My only answer to all this is... "I'm NO Jedi!"

[@alexdeghost2729]

I would say that the council could arrest Palpatine for questioning as him being a Sith would mean he's connected to Dooku...who led the Separatists and Dooku said that the Sith play both sides of the war...

[@jimluebke3869]

If Force-sensitives get very good at very dangerous activities when they're young, but the Force gradually departs as they age, an inordinate number of them probably meet their fate by misadventure.

[@starwarsnewsandmemes8289]

Hey Thor, If there was ever a Star Wars: What If? series similar to Marvel: What If? what stories/alternate timelines do you think would be worth exploring?

[@HobbiesofaMan]

I don't like the idea of the force fading. i understand it atrophying if you don't train it but if it went away, then no one would have learned to harness it and no training methods would have ever come about, so it feels like creating a plot hole to say it fades away.

[@michaelwellen2866]

Simping is the path to the dark side. Simping leads to pain. Pain leads to anger. Anger..leads to suffering.

[@FFS-Vert]

I wonder if Palpatine knew that Qui-Gon was going back to Naboo after bringing Anakin to Coruscant. Maybe he did know, I can’t remember. But I wonder if he sent his born and raised assassin Maul there in part to kill Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon. Or if he specifically commanded Maul to dew it because he didn’t want Anakin having Qui-Gon as a father figure. Was he really that in control from the start? I think the Plagueis book suggests he could have been.

[@ThanksHermione]

"Talent without training is nothing." (Hmm. . . Mind telling Rey that?)

[@konstantinoslalas2681]

You could say this was his destiny(will of the force) or you can say his destiny(will of the force) is to not become Sith,make the right decisions and not choose what HE wants but what he needs to do.This was him not following the will of the Force and paying the price,in which case the Force presents him with another opportunity at the end of his life and this time with the help of his son he makes the right decision and fulfills his original destiny.Basically the will of the Force is above everything but everyone has the agency to make their own decisions freely,even the Chosen One

[@SequentiallyCompact]

Hey Thor, which 'Infinities Timeline' might be the best one for an 'alternative history' of the galaxy? Luke joining Vader and ruling at his side? Qui Gon defeating Darth Maul? Anakin allowing Windu to kill Palpatine? Padme surviving and raising the twins? Anakin defeating Obi Wan on Mustafar? Or another that I haven't listed? I admit you might have explored this and I missed the video, but if not, which one has the most storytelling potential?

[@italycommon]

If your friend killed a bunch of kids before turning on you, you probably wouldn't insist here was good still in them lol

[@magatetus]

I think Padme could have saved him if she lived, she was one of the founding members of the Rebel Alliance and he would have defected to her side.

[@zigurdur92]

It seem like you forgot She tried do that at Mustafar. Anakin nearly killed with his rage.

[@magatetus]

@@zigurdur92 But he still cared, what made him snap is when I thought she brought Obi-Wan to kill him. If they met alone and Padme reveals the twins then I'm sure he would have turned around and realized that he was wrong.

[@zigurdur92]

@@magatetus if he cared, he would have never snapped. Especially this all happened before Obi Wan showed up: Anakin Skywalker: I saw your ship! What are you doing out here? Padmé: I was so worried about you! Obi-Wan... told me terrible things. Anakin Skywalker: What things? Padmé: He said... you've turned to the Dark Side, that you... killed younglings! Anakin Skywalker: Obi-Wan is trying to turn you against me. - Anakin already starting to lie his true love of what he had done. Padmé: He cares about us. Anakin Skywalker: Us? Padmé: He knows. He wants to help you. Anakin, all I want is your love. Anakin Skywalker: Love won't save you, Padmé. Only my new powers can do that. Padmé: At what cost? You're a good person. Don't do this! Anakin Skywalker: I won't lose you the way I lost my mother. I am becoming more powerful than any Jedi has ever dreamed of, and I'm doing it for you... to protect you. Padmé: Come away with me. Help me raise our child. Leave everything else behind while we still can! Anakin Skywalker: Don't you see? We don't have to run away anymore. I have brought peace to the Republic. I am more powerful than the Chancellor; I... I can overthrow him. And together, you and I can rule the galaxy... make things the way we want them to be! - Here he is killing all of Padme dream of world with liberties & peace. Padmé: I don't believe what I'm hearing! Obi-Wan was right... you've changed! Anakin Skywalker: [growing angry] I don't want to hear anymore about Obi-Wan. The Jedi turned against me. Don't you turn against me! - here he starts to threaten & force Padme to follow his lead to submit his order. Padmé: [crying] I don't know you anymore! Anakin... you're breaking my heart! You're going down a path I can't follow! Anakin after Jedi temple changed because he commit crime none can forgive that is to kill innocent children. A path Padme couldn’t follow.

[@magatetus]

@@zigurdur92 seeing baby Liea and baby Luke could still bring him back. Padme even said She knows there's still good in him still.

[@jenaquinthejester4156]

Hey Thor, when you get around to re-reading Revenge of the Sith, would you consider making a video on your thoughts about it? It's one of my favorite things to come from Star Wars and I'd love to hear your thoughts ☺

[@jconnor117]

Hey Thor, in Return of the Jedi we see Luke adept in the practice of Form V lightsaber martial arts but in Empire Strikes Back we do not see Yoda training him in lightsaber combat and there are no mentions of the former Battlemaster holocrons on the different styles being recovered so I guess my question is how is Luke an adept lightsaber specialist after only a few months. Also did all knowledge of Vaapad die with Mace Windu.

[@nevasoba5953]

I so enjoy these

[@paintballercali]

I really think palpatine having created Anakin would have worked his way into Anakin's life somehow. Like a rich dad, poor dad situation. He would have grown up with two father figures with opposing views. I believe palpatine would have turned Anakin against qui-gon. And maybe we would have seen Anakin kill both Dooku and qui-gon.

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

There's no way Anakins training with qui gon doesn't get tampered with for sure. Even if Palpatine can't manipulate him, he might just flip the script and end up trying to kill him.

[@paintballercali]

@@GreaterGrievobeast55 yeah I feel like the guy who orchestrated the clone wars right under the Jedi's nose is being underestimated here.

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

@@paintballercaliindeed, as much of the model Jedi He is, I don't see Qui Gon seeing through the Palpatine better than anyone else

[@GAdmThrawn]

Hey Thor: If you do read the ROTS novelization (AND YOU SHOULD! GET ON THAT SHIT!), are you going to do reflections/discussions of each of the chapters or review the book as a whole for your channel? I would love to hear your thoughts and comments on comparing the book to the movie and the wider universe. P. S. I highly recommend getting the Dark Lord Trilogy edition. It's 3 books in one.

[@zigurdur92]

Hi Thor I would if you could ponder this question: do you think victims of Anakin Skywalker when he was Darth Vader deserve justice & what kind of justice would Anakin have to pay, had he been live post Return of the Jedi?

[@travismiller4320]

Hey Thor, in this video you mentioned Clone Wars would still happen if Qui-Gon survived and trained Anakin, would Count Dooku have fallen to Darth Sidious so easily if Qui-Gon was still alive, from everything I’ve seen I thought his death was a major reason he believed in Sidious? If he doesn’t lead Confederacy, who does?

[@EggFighterXB-]

Hey Thor. Something I always wondered is... What would happen if the Sith WON? Like if for example Palpatine successfully killed both Luke and Vader at the Throne Room. Would the imbalance of the Force completely destroy the Force? Or there's something about being a Sith that there's truly no definitive "winning"

[@DarkLordArmanus]

I just don't see the jedi finding their way back to being what they should be if Anakin sides with Mace and doesn't fall to the dark side. Anakin would probably become a master after that, or maybe quit the order to be with Padmé (or get kicked out when the council finds out they're married and she's pregnant), but the jedi most likely would go back to what they had been doing, and that wouldn't result in balance because they had strayed too far, following the will of corrupt bureaucrats instead of the will of the force. The jedi needed to fall in order to eventually (hopefully) be reborn as they should have been. I think the jedis' ability to use the force being diminished was a manifestation of the will of the force that this happens. Looking further, when Palpatine was playing his end game, he most certainly had high confidence Anakin would fall (over a decade of grooming and manipulation can do that), but I would bet he also calculated how to respond if Anakin didn't fall, and so held back while fighting Mace to both set up the "weak defenseless old man" scenario and reserve some power to defeat them if need be so he would succeed. Creating that scenario convincingly would also cause Anakin and Mace to severely underestimate him, giving him a tremendous advantage. So if Anakin doesn't turn and Palpatine loses, thereno balance because the corrupted jedi order remains. If Anakin doesn't turn and Palpatine kills him, then he's not the Chosen One and there can be no balance. So really, the only way for Anakin to be the Chosen One and fulfill the prophesy is to fall, so the jedi order can first be destroyed and then he will destroy the sith...and then his offspring would rebuild the jedi order the way it should be. At least as it was in the EU before Disney trashed Luke's legacy.

[@DDuffy143]

I don’t think having the force and not choosing light or dark will make you veer towards the dark side. I feel it’s just as much like a super power in comics that can make a good person great and a bad person worse.

[@rennoceternal]

Hey Thor, great video. I have a question: do you think Anakin knew that he had no father? Or was it kept a secret from him? Did he ever wonder? I’m curious to hear your thoughts. Thanks!

[@Kageofyoutube]

Hey Thor I have a question if the Jedi had saved Anakins mother, would he have still turned 2 the dark side with visions of padme death? Or would having his mother being saved prove that the visions were wrong and he stay in the light despite palpatine a manipulation.

[@geoffishy]

I loved the “is being a sith ilegal” question. Whilst I know the rise of skywalkee isn’t a great film, c3p0 does say he is forbidden to translate into the sith language (leading to another fetch quest), perhaps saying some things about sith is ilegal?

[@est351]

Hey Thor, any chance you'll get back to your "What if" stories, your ahsoka series is top 3 my favorite pieces of SW content ever :)

[@NightmareTroubador]

I don't believe it was Anakin's destiny to become Vader. Iirc in either the director's commentary or the 'Making of Revenge of the Sith' book, Lucas himself states Anakin defies his destiny by attacking Mace and saving Sidious. He was meant to be the Chosen One and destroy the Sith. He's the embodiment of both the Tragic Hero and Tragic Villain. He fell to his own flaws and suffered a grim fate. As for Padme saving Anakin, I'm not sure. He's clearly in the mindset of 'you're with me or you're against me' when speaking to her on Mustafar. Even if Obi-Wan hadn't shown up, he was already angry with her 'The Jedi turned against me don't you turn against me!' and I believe that if she continued to refuse, he'd make her see his way. It would probably be not unlike how Ahoska and Obi-Wan both later see Vader and he chooses to continue to fight them. The reason Luke and likely Leia have a chance to save him is because they don't know the good person he used to be like the others. There's no expectation of who he used to be. So the fact that his children have only seen his worst and (at least in Luke's case) continue to reach out, finally gets it through to him that he CAN change for the better. That it is not too late. Even the Force itself couldn't convince him. But his children can.

[@crossfire34]

Anakin caused Padme's death while trying to prevent it. Everything that happened was because the force willed it. Gui Gon was always going to die, Anakin was always going to fall and be eventually be redeam by Luke.

[@n.l.4626]

Another reason why being a Sith presumably isn't illegal: As far as the Jedi (and by extension the Republic) know, the Sith have been extinct for a millenium - so why should they bother codifying a problem that doesn't exist anymore?

[@jett_lea]

Even though being a Sith technically isn't a crime as far as the law goes, the Jedi are obligated to deal with people that are corrupted by the dark side. I mean, what are they even around for if not to maintain balance in the force (which involves eradicating the dark side)? It's said on a few different occasions that the Jedi should not be fighting the war and getting involved in Republic politics, which you can make an argument for or against I guess. So if not that, then what are they even around for? But in the case of Palpatine, he needed to be stopped either way, because what he was doing by controlling both sides of the war was treasonous, or at the very least illegal.

[@ridensroom6957]

20 years? Oh man, read it again asap.

[@xx-xt4rg]

To me the force wanted a total reset and everything that happened was meant to happen. Vader brings down Palpatine and Luke establishes a new Light order.

[@TerryCrews1]

Hey Thor, if the force will fade if you are trained while you are young like you said in the video. Why did Obi-Wan watch Luke and not train him? "Too old he is"

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

I will admit a level of confusion about how much agency star wars characters have when it comes to the prophecy. Like how much can Anakin screw up as darth vader while still being able to stop sidious and end the sith. Like, can he still even die before the prophecy is fulfilled? If Luke chose to try and Kill darth vader would the force trip him up or do something else to stop Vader from dying?

[@mpnuorva]

Future is always in motion, and the Dark Side is all about subverting the Will of the Force for one's benefit. So a lot. Qui-Gon may have won. Anakin may have chosen to let Windu take the swing, Anakin may have won against Obi-Wan, Vader may have succeeded in capturing and turning Luke, Luke could have chosen to replace Vader. Vader could have let Luke die. And even if all that failed, there would still be Leia.

[@Voxxyvox]

He didn't need her. He was chosen to bring balance to the force. He did so by killing Palpatine to save his son. Story over

[@Skywalker20239]

Not so dangerous the dark side is))))

[@colonelblastpack169]

Idk about fate and destiny. Sure the Force has a "will" that you can choose to listen to. But when you start saying Anakin was fated to be taught by Qui-Gon, then it could also be said that Maul was fated to kill Qui-Gon, and he was compelled by the Force. This can be a never ending loop. Clearly it's implied that individuals are manipulating events, such as Palpatine, using their own personal will. Also, in Return of the Jedi, Vader clearly makes a choice. Lastly, if we acknowledge Fate and Destiny, then no matter what, Anakin fulfilled the Prophecy of the Jedi; to bring Balance to the Force. Vader did this under Order 66. There were thousands of Jedi and only a handful of Sith. This is what is meant when Yoda said "a Prophecy misinterpreted it may be" or something like that.

[@rickblaine9670]

I think the best way to figure this out is to look at one of the main characters that inspired Anakin’s story, which is of course Jesus Christ. To ask if the tragedy of Darth Vader was necessary is more or less to ask the same about the crucifixion. And… yes, the point is that, in God’s grand plan, the crucifixion WAS necessary. It was either that - the redeemer takes the weight of sin upon himself - or game over for everyone. You could say Anakin did something similar. He wiped the slate clean and allowed the Jedi to start over, free of their centuries of decadence and corruption, the weight of which he bore on his shoulders for twenty long years (and yes, the Jedi all paid too, but it was quick for most of them: Anakin was the one who was left alive to suffer). A corruption that would have evidently been impossible to remove in any other way, since its roots ran way too deep. Btw I point out that I’m not preaching in a religious sense, I’m just looking at both Anakin and Jesus’ stories as mythic tales, and pointing out the resemblances between them. If you believe in either of them with a… let’s say “religious fervor”, that’s of course your business😄

[@zigurdur92]

The scene at Mustafar with Anakin & Padme is the proof that living Padme would not be available safe / turn Anakin from the dark side. Because he nearly killed Padme. Plus Padme as senator of republic would never be available forgive Anakin for being a child murderer publicly or privately. Another thing Anakin after Jedi Temple was never the same Anakin & nor could he become the same Anakin. The attack of the Jedi Temple turned Anakin into oath breaker to the Jedi Code. A Child murderer who deserve to be cancelled for his actions & all victims deserve justice because what he did to them. That is why Anakin could never be saved by Padme.

[@dejabu24]

what if Anakin would've stay in Mortis and replace the father

[@EBouleyPhotos]

Hey Thor, why do you think Ahsoka never turned to the dark side?

[@MMZERO9]

Was becoming Vader Anakin’s canon event? Who knows?

[@FFS-Vert]

ROTS novel review!!!

[@TheBobaJames]

Talent without training…so you mean Ray?

[@treystephens6166]

Anakin should have trusted Obi Wan.

[@Skywalker20239]

Unfortunately no, Anakin wasn't supposed to become Vader. And i don't think that Padme wasn't supposed to die, i think that all Palpatin fault.

[@seanmurphy7011]

Anakin did not defeat the dark side and bring balance to the Force by killing the Emperor. He did it by falling to the dark side and then coming back, which no one had ever done before (never mind all that EU nonsense). He had to kill the emperor, of course, but it was his return to the light that brought balance.

[@Bedoroski]

One of the common misinterpretations is that the Jedi have lost their traditional ways and become warmongers. Balance was brought by killing them all, and the Sith as well. If anything, the Jedi aren't to be framed as villains. They don't commit genocide, don't spead political manipulation, ready to act on compassion. They became flawed as a result of brilliant political moves of Sidious, they're meant to be the victim.

[@DLR1997]

They destroyed multiple dark-side sites for the sake of the light and committed to cultural genocide of many other cultures.

[@MrDJayOfficial]

Who cares. The moment he killed the kids it was over

[@jeremyfields9009]

Clone Wars Anakin is a brave and tragic figure. Film Anakin is a boring, obnoxious character. You have zero sympathy when he gets buried alive.

[@seanbaugh3239]

*Thor, C'mon Bro...* If Padme had lived she would have discovered Anakin massacred a bunch of children........... and found his porn collection. She would have dropped him like a hot potato. 🤔... 🔥🥔... 😳 *"NUFF SAID"™️*

[@blade8989]

V

[@alexdeghost2729]

Being a Sith is wrong, period, because being one brings imbalance in the force.

[@Solo13508]

I actually think Padme was pretty close to talking Anakin back into his senses before he sees Obi-Wan on the landing ramp. At that point, I think all hope was lost

[@skywalkersbutido6375]

nah that’s cope,if he doesn’t become Vader he can’t balance the force by saving Luke.Padme saved the galaxy by dying.

[@mpnuorva]

How is that cope? Saving Luke doesn't balance the Force, destroying the Sith will. All Anakin needs for that in ep III is to let Mace Windu kill Palpatine.

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

@@mpnuorvais anakin putting the force at balance if Mace is the one killing palpatine though? I guess he was the one to snitch hmmmm.

[@mercurialsilver5688]

@@GreaterGrievobeast55Yeah, Anakin would have been the one who got Sidious to take off his mask. That could have all backfired horribly on Palpatine if Anakin had just stayed true and remembered where his priorities lay.

[@DeepDeepSpace]

Anakin becoming Vader was not necessary for the force to be balanced. That just made the force even more unbalanced.

[@glen9593]

That's not how destiny works. What happened to Anakin was his destiny, if you accept destiny exists. It was inevitable. Ultimately he did fulfil the prophecy by bringing balance to the Force. First he destroyed the Jedi, then he destroyed the Sith, making both dark and light sides equal.

[@mercurialsilver5688]

That isn’t how balance in the Force works.

[@citlalicervantes6498]

567th like!