This WC3 Mechanic is WEIRD! But it MAKES SENSE!

Listen to me waffle on / @grubbytalks
Catch me live all days of the week at: / grubby

[@Broockle]

Love the "Hey I'm free, I could do this! 😀"

[@veilnebula2411]

the other doctors just looked at each other and went: "as you say Mon"

[@nurmuhammadzakibudiprasety5901]

Said noone ever at my office

[@tremolo6940]

​@@veilnebula2411good choice mon

[@Ar1AnX1x]

wholesome witch doctors on drugs

[@ahmedbasic1682]

dam it I watched 3 times just for this and could not spot it ...

[@FraggyFresh]

stuff like this is SO irrelevant for me on my skill level... yet i absolutely LOVE to learn about these kind of trivia gameplay mechanics!

[@mardakfernfern1986]

Warcraft 3, made in 2001 it's mind boggling how this masterpiece has created. From small details of unit programming is insane

[@ahmadhasanturk7762]

The amount of units and sounds in the world builder is second to none one of the biggest games if all times

[@realofficialbrandon]

​@@ahmadhasanturk7762wc3 was truly the golden age of RTS worldbuilding

[@flurinjenal374]

Yes, high degree of perfection.

[@NoFutureForG0uda]

yeah idk, this is probably happening the same way in all rts that allow for shitqueuing.

[@derekcheung1362]

Sad to see blizzard now

[@kataclysmad1065]

My APM is low enough so that they arrive all before I plant the ward. Rich people problems !

[@CryzeHunter]

i think most map makers are aware of this, for me this was common knowledge since 2006 but i never played any ladder or interacted with people who do, so maybe thats just knowledge that never escaped the mak maker circle o.o edit: before someone tries to say something like "yeah yeah ofc you did but somehow it magically never was heard somewhere else" -> there is a condition in wc3 to check if a unit has still an active order or has not (this is very useful when making custom hero abilities or alternate building systems), when experimenting with this condition you come across this mechanic pretty easily, thats how we found out.

[@Sapreme]

I knew a lot of random obscure mechanics in WC3 due to map editor too, even though I only played dota. e.g It's common knowledge that WC3 original spells are hardcoded and some atributes can't be changed. Like a lot of custom abilties are just Storm Bolts or Chain Lightning, and that's why Zeus and Luna have mini-stuns on their nukes. If I remember correctly, the minimum stun duration on storm bolt was 0.25 seconds, and if you try to set the stun duration on it to 0 it just becomes permanent lol

[@parham1023]

Funny enough, dota2 also uses the same mechanic as well: while playing naga, Lycan, or any other unit/ilu hero, the one that is idle is prioritised for the next action. Of course, this rarely is replicatelble because most units in dota don't have active spells, or you can only have one of them. Chen and Book of the Dead are how I understood this.

[@Bagginsess]

I know that for meepo they will only throw the net for the first one in a control group/selection that doesn't have it on cool down but I've never noticed a movement command to change that to which ever one is idle. Though maybe it's just a skill issue for my smooth brain.

[@parham1023]

@Bagginsess meepo is an exception funny enough: his clones are considered separate heroes. So, each meepo is a separate unit and not the same. Much like Arc Warden tempest double.

[@Bagginsess]

@@parham1023 ah that makes sense.

[@julespulp214]

Dota 2 always seems to have almost the same code as W3 lol

[@kevingriffith6011]

While it makes sense mechanically, I feel like it makes things too janky. I'm trying to think of any time I wouldn't want to override an old command with a new one if it's more efficient... Maybe selecting every peon in your base and just asking one of them to make a building, then the one who isn't busy can do it? I don't know.

[@nameundefined4317]

exactly i lost many units to this functionality

[@Kryptnyt]

Let's say you have 6 dragonhawk riders. You issue a command to Shackle a unit, and one starts moving towards an enemy to do so. You issue another command to Shackle a unit, instead of the one that is moving towards the enemy to shackle them canceling that order and replacing it with a new order to shackle the other unit, you get a dragonhawk with a move action or a wait action to do so.

[@kevingriffith6011]

@@Kryptnyt Fair enough. I do think they managed to square that circle in Starcraft 2, as I've not really seen the same issues with caster units there.

[@noobgam6331]

​@@kevingriffith6011 no, in sc2 it works literally exactly the same way. The only difference is that move command overriden completely. In sc2 everyone (who isn't completely low elo like below masters) is aware of how it works because this is a crucial mechanic to understand and that you need. The big difference in sc2 is because it is significantly higher pace so the odds of you forgetting to move 4 ravagers you used to throw biles to are virtually zero

[@Lightning_Lance]

@@Kryptnyt that's a good example. I guess the real issue is that it sort of prioritizes move commands over other commands just because of the order you gave the commands in. Whereas with actual tactical commands it makes sense to not override them, but movement - you're probably just going to end up clicking it 4 more times anyway.

[@velrex8140]

So the game tries to find a way to give a command without overriding commands that are not yet complete, if possible. Interesting, if not a bit annoying at the same time.

[@FollowGrubby]

Exactly. It has ups and downs

[@ctackins8874]

My eyes opened like that chick fila girl at the end of the vid

[@Sulticune]

Mind blowing that we are STILL discovering things about this game today, i love WC3

[@bow2deathwish]

WAIT HOW DID THAT TAKE YOU THAT LONG TO FIGURE THAT OUT?

[@CoNteMpTone]

Its even more impressive that he even noticed it "for many years"

[@mickcraftgaming]

The more you know! I guess if you want to do that you should issue a quick stop command, place the sentry and then reissue the move command

[@Crustee0]

I wonder which one is faster and/or easier, click stop -> use spell -> move; or going : click 1 moving unit -> use spell -> re-move that unit. Id assume the 2nd one dont delay your troops as much, but probably harder to execute in the heat of battle and if its worth that slight extra speed for the troops

[@herbertherbertson2670]

That smile at the end, the pure bliss of understanding 😂

[@anisometropie]

We need more of these deep machanics videos ! I’d love to see one with the machanics of the peasants on lumber, when they come back to work after milicia

[@MonoCronic]

That's kinda the thing that has been going since the "Dune 2" on Sega, iirc

[@Mene0]

RTSs have a lot of design decisions that may seem small but sometime can make or break the game feel

[@justinhowe3878]

"one thing at a time, boss"

[@Spacemongerr]

This guy sounds suspisciously Dutch

[@RoshanSlayer]

These little things sometimes decide whether you win or loose a fight

[@Ar1AnX1x]

I used to play a lot of RTS games back in the day(it was all the rage)and when I played Warcraft 3 it immediately felt like on a whole another level and I didn't exactly understand why but now I do

[@Audon4150]

Isn't it obvious?

[@theanti-hypemonitor9079]

wait ... took him his entire carreer trying to understand that? i thoght it was super obvious and i dont even play that game

[@ruskyhusky69]

Lol I love the explanation and the curiosity on the subject. I have a bunch of those unanswered questions in my head

[@IDNeon357]

I love learning these reverse engineering things

[@Dumballa]

Jesus. It seems so simple, but only once it's explained. Of course in game you're always looking for the closest one to cast. Now we understand exactly why that isn't always the case. Knowledge is power 😀

[@stehlify]

AH! I always knew to keep my casters in move to provide dispel in best way, but had no idea this was the rule!

[@ep7311]

WC3, daddy of DotA and subsequently League of Legends. WoW was literally a side-project extra campaign that evolved into one of the longest standing MMOs of the last 20 years. Blizzard Entertainment was just different

[@war3scecfang]

grew up watching grubby winning all the titles. and am so happy to know that there is something I have known for years that he doesn't

[@bumbaclat_11]

how can grubby not figure this out alone..u too smart for this lol

[@mr.j7896]

yeah, that makes sense.

[@topicsrandom6190]

Lol i didn't know that ... All this years 🤯

[@Raecrisos]

It's actually a very clean and optimized code respect to all the OGs dev

[@UnderratedRiffs]

I noticed this even back in RoC era!

[@anomanomom239]

U do be smorc, my mon

[@coryw3339]

Wc3 is still the best rts and its over 20 years old. It's baffling that nobody has created a modern rival.

[@LeprosuGnome]

A bit obvious I think

[@rompevuevitos222]

Not really, spells are the only action that gets selectively queued. All other actions are always an override of the current one for all selected units. Cannibalize is a spell.

[@growthisfreedomunitedearth7584]

wow, I have experienced this, too.

[@bobxbaker]

i used to do wonky builds as a kid one of which was orc with wolf riders, this would happen a lot trying to micro wolf riders kiting away from the enemy, somewhere i intuitively learned that this is what was happening still it kept happening because i was frenetically trying to micro just clicking very close by just to move a little. but i saw it didn't happen if i was clicking on the minimap and full retreating just the further most back would cast a net, so just assumed that while running it would do as i said if any had stopped it would be wonky. but kid me quickly forgot as i thought it was special to wolf riders as it didn't really happen with the other units i was using when i was playing and i really didn't like using spell casters, too much micro, so never made the complete connection.

[@Crustee0]

Thats interesting. I wonder if theres a hidden command-time calculation, that when you click move on far point (i assume thats why u use the minimap) it thinks "the first one to get idle wont get here any time sooner, lets try to find a unit that can cast the spell (with proximity filter/prioritization)".

[@bobxbaker]

@@Crustee0 i just used to click the map to retreat home instead of map scrolling because it was so much more of a hassle to do, i was not a good player. it was just what was shown in the video, if they are all walking then the closest one would go do it, if you have them all selected and one is idle/stopped then that one will go do it walking through the entire group to get there.

[@Vladivseia]

It is logical.

[@MillencolinSweetMuz]

Only a wc3 nerd could love this video! Great insight!

[@obzornews]

Grubby expert ! scientist

[@juliantheapostate2263]

Pretty fascinating!

[@FelbloodStreaming]

That explains everything.

[@1invisible1lol1]

It took you this long to figure out action queues?

[@wesmorris3529]

Wait......it took you that long to figure that out? I don't even play warcraft and I coulda told you that.

[@brianvanmaanen1897]

It does make sense, you give them a chain of orders, so the proximity checked only for the witch doctor who's on that step of the journey. In this case the witchdoctor who completese task #1 first will be the first to start task #2.

[@alexanderkuznetsov4190]

When the design decision is made by a programmer and not a designer

[@Bagginsess]

I wonder if this was fixed in Starcraft 2, and if not, if it will be fixed in Stormgate? Or do you think it should stay? I'm not good enough to judge lol.

[@seanclements6206]

Are you shift commanding the spell after moving the five witch doctor's in that example? That would certainly force the units to finish the previous command before casting the spell. If you are try not shift commanding the spell

[@FollowGrubby]

No shifts at all. Lot of commenters think I held shift here, when I didn't. It's some deeper OG coding magic by Blizz

[@seanclements6206]

@@FollowGrubby I figured you weren't but had to ask

[@spimm3x]

Makes sense 🤷

[@user-ct2dj4bg6s]

Seems legit

[@whitechocolate017]

RTZ BKB situation

[@Drizzle52693]

Long story short: it’s an engine that was made 25 years ago

[@drJhowPhd]

When tier list ?

[@jomardepedro]

DAT BE GOOD CHOICE MAN! 👍

[@JorgeEscobarMX]

Wow. Like 20 years late but wow

[@Raducu2oo5]

How’s this work in Warcraft 2 ? :p

[@coldfire7897]

Yeah! :))

[@brunospasta]

Solution is to not move your units

[@JuliusCeaser_]

Just press the S or stop button for a split second, problem solved.

[@estevaomaia6405]

So… keep your units moving? 😂

[@Asgardinho]

now explain the pathing issues

[@Karjalol]

wow

[@Benck]

cool

[@Maxmilian666]

Thought Grubby was a pro. Not knowing 20 year old mechanic is kinda mehh.

[@tdawgluxor1060]

Hey, I'm free, I could watch this video game instructional video of a game that I last played 15-20 years ago

[@kendreamer6376]

Soundw like how it was scripted. Software is like building somthing fround the ground up.

[@boonyboonboon]

there is no way you didn't key onto this for like 20 years bro

[@bibytom863]

Вполне логично.

[@harrellt1405]

Hindi na kasya yung ugok ni lemer

[@atcera8714]

I thought everyone knew that

[@icze88]

it's not. you've gotten the wrong logic.

[@karolk7711]

Hello, please dont refer to viewers as twitch chat, not everyone watching on twitch is typing on chat

[@FollowGrubby]

Right... but it's the ones that problem solved with me, by typing in chat, to help me find the reason!

[@quitte1505]

🤷

[@DukeApples]

So, you control 5 units, and expect them to function as a single unit...and after years of doing this, you have finally learned that they are 5 different units.

[@NiteSaiya]

Protip: Any time you catch yourself saying, "So..." and then vomiting up a reinterpretation of what was said, you're probably a fool that has wasted your time twisting something into a strawman to make it easier for you to judge or to enhance your petty feelings of righteousness or superiority. It's pathetic and childish. Knock it off.

[@DukeApples]

@NiteSaiya That makes sense, thats an easy thing to change, thank-you.

[@tomyk9233]

You needed others to tell you to figure it out?? 😂

[@aaabatteries9948]

Weird how you can play a game for most of your life but still miss such a simple detail lol

[@mozhou8935]

For people who don’t do it themselves everything is simple

[@FlokiTech]

@@mozhou8935 Maybe I should become a pro then

[@quarlmephystodot2201]

this is trash programming

[@jimday2264]

Wow… nobody cares. Games ancient and nobody playes it anymore

[@kataclysmad1065]

There are very few toxic people in the WC3 community. It's better to have a few million players worldwide in a competitive and mature atmosphere than a billion people on a pay to win modern game IMHO.

[@devinthorpe9953]

Stick to fortnite dancing for incels

[@minhphutrinh5740]

Not ancient ,but legend