ME:A Why is Shepard more relatable than Ryder?

Sorry for the choppiness at the beginning!
Here's a video on the narrative difference between Mass Effect games, and why characters like Shepard or Geralt are more relatable than Ryder.

[@Joshjpg]

Shepard is a role model to aspire to. Ryder is a kid trying to aspire.

[@cathalhughes5996]

Josh.jpg shepard either was an moral hero of for every organic (and geth) speices out there as someone who tried to save anyone or he was a badass renegade that done anything to get results

[@R4Y2k]

not necessarily. I guess Shepard was more relatable because his decisions mattered while in MEA you can decide whatever you want and it has close to zero influence on what's going on. MEA is a Mass Effect without a soul...

[@lorenzorossi9093]

Just slightly not like in mass effect where you can choose the fate of a specie or even more than one you just choose if a guy will become a pathfinder or not

[@raylast3873]

No. Conrad Verner is a kid trying to aspire. Ryder is a McGuffin.

[@samfishersplintercell4818]

"Me a role model? I never even asked to be a Spectre and the moment I heard the Turian say I was a possibility I thought he lost his head."

[@tassel4713]

I still find Ryders dad more interesting than ryder.

[@reclaimerbear6760]

A special forces, high lvl scientist or his competent, but not particularly experienced kids? I wonder why one would be more interesting to be

[@tassel4713]

@@reclaimerbear6760 i am not talking about right at the beginning. I am talking about througout the whole game.

[@marinaathanaselli4624]

Shepard is a badass. You can fight like a krogan, run like a leopard but youre never be better than commander shepard

[@groupvucic24]

Ever heard of Chuck Norris?

[@alexgremlin3680]

Hm, a Miracle of Sound fan, huh?

[@darkpheonix3066]

Except at dancing.

[@alexgremlin3680]

@@darkpheonix3066 Yeah, except that. Which is quite funny

[@spartacus8907]

Another major problem is Ryder not being given dialogue or choices that align with many players' thoughts/preferences. I partially blame this on the removal of paragon/renegade system. Ryder never becomes who I want him to be because he isn't allowed. Throughout the game, you never get the Shepard-like badass moment where I can threaten someone and watch them cower. When someone else threatens you in Andromeda, Ryder's choices are always passive or apologetic, rather than aggressive and violent. While I can understand the situation Ryder finds himself in is unexpected and overwhelming, the character doesn't act how a hero or leader should act. Shepard was charismatic, confident, and demanding of respect. Ryder is none of those. And to make it worse, players aren't given the choice to fix that. Ryder is forced on us and our actions have no impact on Ryder's development (as opposed to the effects of paragon/renegade choices with Shepard). Ryder being one of my least favorite main characters in ANY game was only one of many many reasons why ME Andromeda felt like a colossal failure to me.

[@quantum5661]

when shit got real shepard took charge, cooled people down, and made corpses. ryder just made corpses.

[@Cookiesrfood]

I completely agree with this Ryder is just not a very charismatic character Ryder feels super awkward and the entire story he is trying to cope with the world around him he is like having an awkward manager who just got the position and doesnt really know what their doing yet

[@EvieWingweaver13]

spartacus8907 THIS!!!

[@leoncoben6983]

Fuck the Paragon/Renegade system. I'm glad that shit is gone. Most annoying shit about is I got cut off on MAJOR decisions because I'm mostly half and half so I had to play entire sections of the ME2 and 3 to get my desired outcome. Like convining Miranda/Jack and Tali/Legion to cooperate together and put aside differences or not getting mind fucked by Morinth. Or having to completely START OVER at Tunchanka(?) to get both Quarians and Geth to stop fighting and not have to fuck over one side for the other. One last thing that demanding respect part about Shepard? Fuck that too. Ryder had to earn his respect but living up to expectations and went above and beyond that. Which made Ryder more likeable to me whereas Shepard had already passed that bar and you were just then given control of him/her. I really would have liked to play out the part that made Shepard special to get that connection. Starting anywhere but the bottom sucks cause it takes away the very start of the story.

[@KadeSmash]

@Matthew Anthony Bruh that's some sexist ass bullshit. Especially coming from a franchise known for the choice to be either male or female, and Femshep could kick your ass any day of the week, probably Ryder too.

[@juanramos4322]

Shepard earns his Spectre status. Nepotism makes Ryder the Pathfinder.

[@destroyazoid2060]

Wow that actually slipped by chalk up another reason I didn’t like MEA

[@joshuawillis602]

That’s not entirely accurate

[@HolyknightVader999]

Shepard starts off on the Council's bad side for getting the Prothean Beacon destroyed, and had to prove himself/herself to them. And in the end, Shepard becomes the hero the galaxy looked up to. Down to the point where Cerberus would spend a fortune to engage in necromancy and revive a single person, just because they were that important.

[@Killgore-ip2yq]

@@joshuawillis602 yeah but it's honest.

[@Elvorith]

I don't think it's about who you RELATE to faster/deeper. It's about who you WANT TO BECOME. No one wants to be an inexperienced kid, but everyone wants to be a badass hero with a grand story, saving the universe and have friends.

[@agrey832]

in my opinion, Shepard was just a much better crafted character. Not only that, his sqaudmates and other key players were much better written too. even the villains were more compelling. Now, we see just how much good writers are a necessity for any videogame franchise. Flat out, the writers that we have now just aren't as good as the ones we had in the initial trilogy, and it shows...

[@sarasunshinemt4444]

On average, and depending on the number of pages, I will read a book in under 3 days. A series will take me a week. Playing Mass Effect takes me 40 hours, ME2 roughly 60 and ME3 up to 80 hours. So if the writing isn't solid and compelling, why the hell would I want to spend so much time on it? Andromeda seriously dropped the ball on that, along with plot and pacing. If they had made it more like Ryder ended up stealing the ship to fulfill what he (or she) saw as their father's legacy and stumbled into the main plot threat, that would be different. But the premise they ended up going with seemed way more FanFic self insert than actual logic given the circumstances. Think of it like giving Luke Skywalker all the authority and assets in A New Hope instead of him basically being hauled around for the ride and proving himself to his friends and allies. The game ended up being 70% fetch quests with 20% plot and 10% stupid filler that you wish you could skip. Once they fixed the glitches, I enjoyed the crafting & open world feel (tho I missed my power wheel, dammit) and the graphics were beautiful (except the krogan and some of the turians; who decided to put lipstick on a krogan?!?).

[@megiski3116]

"Shepard is the hero, humanity's best" - yeah, I can totally relate to that.

[@ceciliejensen7506]

Something I loved about Shepard was that he/she had experience. They knew what they were doing and they were good at it. People believed in them and looked up to them. They were a hero and a savoir. They were the one you would tell stories about to your children and them to their children and them to their children and so on.Shepard was a legend, Ryder is a rookie.

[@blixsa1179]

I think they wanted give us other options not being pro or legend but just a rookie as you said. just differnt perpective :)

[@ceciliejensen7506]

After writing this comment I've replayed the game even more times. I've actually come to really like the sarcastic and fun side that Ryder has. Though, Shepard will always be my favorite.

[@blixsa1179]

Yeah first game is always best like kotor or Rrisen :) I played too only fun and sarcastic when i try the play others i always pick same choice like before its like Paragon i never had a hearth go full renegade because then Shepard was realy bitch :D

[@bossshun9]

Oh yeah. Shepard and his/her crew were the heroes and characters you can inspire to. Ryder and his/her team was a bunch of young kids that got lucky.

[@joshuawillis602]

@@bossshun9 not entirely accurate

[@Tomcat_Coyote]

I think way too many people here and everywhere kept forgetting one or two teeny tiny details about both Shepard and Ryder , that makes comparing them both as useful as comparing apple and oranges . Shepard is a battle-hardened Veteran in her/his thirties who has seen many combats , knows both victory and defeat , has seen death from up-close even before the game even starts , and your psych profile only adds up to the " fun " Shepard has tasted before you're even given control of your character . Depending on your backstory , Shepard might've even been a witness to her/his parent's slaughter as a teen , or grew up in a hostile environment on earth as an orphan ... And on the other hand , you have Ryder who's in her/his early twenties , has known and lived a seemingly decent childhood with both her/his parents and had a rather normal life until they boarded the Hyperion . When she/he finally arrives in Andromeda , all hell breaks lose , Ryder hasn't even been awake for 24h hours that her/his sibling is stuck in a coma , Ryder Senior dies to save her/his life , and because of SAM , Ryder becomes the Pathfinder and subsequently the " last hope " of pretty much everyone on the Nexus . Ryder's only past-experience is a short 5 years service in the Alliance Systems military , and all of a sudden she/he has to fight to save everyone's arse in the Heleus cluster , but that doesn't make Ryder any less young , possibly lacking maturity compared to someone like Shepard , definitely lacking the experience , and who's barely given the time to take a breath to assimilate the loss of her/his Father and all the other niceties that she/he just went through . Oh , and Ryder also learns that her/his Mum who was supposed to be dead is actually in cryo because Ryder Senior wanted to find a cure for her disease . All in all , when you think about it and you're honest two seconds , Ryder actually starts out as the most relatable character , unless you just happened to be a battle-hardened veteran yourself , in which case i thank you for your service and i understand that you relate to Shepard more . After that it's only the game mechanics that change , but you can still play Ryder the same way you played Shepard . In the end Andromeda is also YOUR game , and Ryder is YOUR character , she/he is the way you want her/him to be . Sometimes nice , sometimes a total arse , basically like Shepard .

[@assman7218]

Centauri You have a point there... Ryder is kinda relatable since not all of us came from a military background, though I still like Shepard more. Such a pity the game wasn't as good as the original trilogy.

[@nobodyneverknows]

lol

[@silentpriest3376]

Ryder is a young kid who is trying to shoot past the shadows his father had made. To shepard he is brought in as a legend before the game started before the gamr ended you know who he is.

[@rcslyman8929]

I'll get this out of the way first. It's not that Shepard's more relatable. Shepard's more compelling as a story protagonist, especially in a game setting. Has a big personality. First big enemy is a peer adversary, but you have the full idea of the magnitude of the story arc's true BBE. And it's galaxy-shattering. You know it, but you have problems convincing anyone but your own compatriots of it. So it's literally you against a galactic cataclysm. The magnitude of what you're pitted against is incredible to scale. So yes, the character is compelling. Moreso than Andromeda, because what was the story about? Setting up a colony in a new galaxy. Not fighting some huge evil that threatened all of existence. Sure, the Kett were pretty bad and all, but to be fair, we were the galactic trespassers. So you could only be so mad at them. But they weren't the huge threat to the galaxy. Nor were they peer adversaries with a compelling story, either. They were XP fodder... a means to help increase the gaming measuring stick. Ryder wasn't compelling because the story's threat wasn't compelling. That said, while we got the full intro to Alec like he was going to be the hero of the story, I knew going right in that he was dead or otherwise out of commission before the first commercial break. We weren't playing Alec, so there was no way he was leading the foray into Andromeda. So I was paying less attention to his development, and more to Scott's, both as my playable character and as the story protagonist. Then there was problems with the gameplay set-up. The Shepard story starts out easy enough. The initial controls were relatively simple, the game paced easily at introducing advanced controls for the gameplay, and even the story element paced rather slowly. You got to get a feel for the game before getting anything too heavy tossed at you. Meanwhile, Andromeda chucked you into the deep end very quickly. You had to learn the controls, learn the UI, learn the map, all while trying to keep up with the story, what was going on with and between the characters, and trying to get a feel for your own character. The only thing you really didn't have right off the bat was the profile switching. There was just a heck of a lot going on, so for me, it took a minute to get into the character. But relating to the character? Ryder is far, far more relatable than Shepard. Shepard's a walking one-(wo)man army. Exudes confidence, leadership, tactical and strategic cunning, charisma, and a plethora of other character traits that put him/her out of most of our leagues. Ryder? A bit of a wise-ass. Certainly has skills and all, but relatively untried, and still unsure of himself. But even in the face of overwhelming odds, manages to mostly keep a cheery disposition and jokes coming. He (and I assume she, too) is a down-to-Earth character. Even more, the choices you are given for responding with your character. Shepard has typically two paths. Bad Ash or Good Ash. Good, bad, s/he's the guy/gal with the gun. Ryder has a number of different options for how to respond. So you are given a wider range of responses that more closely mesh with your own personality type. You don't have to make that choice of bad or good... you get a good variety of personality options. I took a more logical approach usually, but sure, there were times I made an emotional response. Because it was how I would react. It made Scott more relatable... more of an extension of myself than Shepard ever was. It's just a shame the game itself fell flat. I would have liked to see more of the character. Oh well.

[@Torthrodhel]

Maybe, but I also think Shepard is much more relatable than Ryder in the position they're in. If the story was about a galactic nobody going about their daily life, then sure you'd want it to be relatable to someone like you. But since the story's about big stakes galaxy saving (either way; just moreso in one instance than the other), the relatable person to be put in charge of that is a big stakes galaxy saviour. That may not be relatable in terms of personal insert, but it's relatable in terms of universe logic. Ryder is very not-that. In other words if you're gonna go big go big and if you're wanting to keep it small then actually keep it small. Making a Mass Effect game isn't what keeping it small looks like.

[@rcslyman8929]

@@Torthrodhel Don't get me wrong, I definitely liked Shepard way more than Ryder as a game protag. But that's more to do with the game itself being way better in terms of scope, and the character matching it. It's just the feeling that Ryder was more directly relatable to the player, on purely those terms. It certainly didn't make enough of a dent to make up for all the other massive shortcomings.

[@Torthrodhel]

@@rcslyman8929 fair enough, interesting how people interpret stuff differently. :)

[@RandomWandrer]

I wanted a more dire/urgent circumstance and more charactwr conflict. And I wanted an option for Ryder to be an A-hole. Andromeda felt like a chilled out hangout game. With way too much driving. There were some ok character moments... basically the sibling stuff, because that was the only stuff that seemed to matter on a deep level to Ryder.

[@pershing5286]

Because Shepard is a badass and a gentle soul (Renegade/Paragon). Ryder on the other hand act like his mission to save the Andromeda galaxy is like a holiday road trip with his friends.

[@JenniferNein]

Shepard was an established hero. Ryder is conflicted between forging their own path and following the legend of their father. Bioware took a risk yes, but it's not something that is exactly horrible. With continued gameplay you start to understand the character. at least I did.

[@nathanielnadeau6501]

Same here. You can't compare the two and expect the "newbie." To stand up to an all powerful Legend. I mean come on... Shepherd stopped the freaken Reapers. How is some unimportant side character supposed to hold up against that? They're not and Bioware knew that. I'm not defending the choices made. MEA sucked in almost every aspect except Combat in comparison to the OG trilogy. But they were trying to expand a universe and start fresh. People need to stop comparing Ryder to Shepherd and think of it the way it was likely imagined. Once I did that the game was so much better.

[@BigPuddin]

You're praising an idea that has merit whilst failing to separate the idea from execution. The execution was absolute dogshit here. Ryder never grows as a character. They never get to a point wherein they command respect and inspire confidence because that "wouldn't be relatable lmao xd so quirky" or something. They are profoundly ill fitted to the role they play while Shepard was practically born for it. The whole "out of your depth" and "trying to fill a better man's shoes" idea is great on paper, but it requires a deft hand and talent to pull off. This ain't it, chief. You want a good example of your idea being executed properly? Gordon Freeman. Walter White. The hipster dude, Doug, from The Hills Have Eyes reboot. That last one was the best example of character growth I've seen in a long time from such an unassuming movie. His character actually GROWS. He goes from a timid doormat who's terrified of fighting and conflict to a brutal badass suffering from the loss of his murdered wife who butchers hillbilly mutants to save his infant daughter. Had Doug been a ME:A character, he would have just stayed the same person the whole movie while still murdering hillbillies. Just because an idea has merit doesn't mean its portrayal is a validation of it. Execution matters. Everyone understood Ryder's "character" from the start. They wore their heart on their sleeve like a child with no depth so it wasn't exactly difficult to discern. The problem is that their character never grows with the player's accomplishments.

[@phughens]

I admit I was very disappointed in andromeda. I miss Shepard terribly. I have done 1.5 play throughs of andromeda and never connected to Ryder. I don't even have the desire to finish my game. Yet I have played through the trilogy and still love it and desire to play through again. The character creation and background leave a lot to be desired. Andromeda was the first game I ever did a preorder for and I have serious buyers remorse! The romances in andromeda also do pull you in like the trilogy did.. (I am still quite salty about Thane's death. And Shepard's for that matter.)

[@neurotictingilingsnahui2513]

phughens i really miss Shepard, best damn fiction character in existence. Everyone fucking loved Shepard even leviathan wanted to keep him as pet. Playing him was a blast...ryder on the other hand...

[@bossshun9]

A lot of us miss Shepard and his crew.

[@Master_WannaBe_]

I think what makes the Ryder’s less relatable is we haven’t spent three full games with them yet, unlike Shepard. I didn’t start feeling any relation between me and Shepard until the beginning of the second game when (spoiler alert) he dies and the Normandy is destroyed. I felt some genuine fear for my Shepard like I’ve never had before with any other game character. By the end of the trilogy I was sad to say goodbye, metaphorically, to the entire crew of the SS Normandy SR-2. With the Ryders and their crew, they’re a new set of people. It’s like seeing all of your upper class friends from school, that you’ve grown to love and become great friends with, leave and have them get replaced by freshmen. You don’t know them as well as you did your upper class friends so the relation is weak at the start. I have a feeling that when Andromeda 2 and 3 are released, I imagine they’re going to do a trilogy, we’ll have developed a new relationship. It’s going to replace the Normandy crew but it may become a decent stand in.

[@linkenski]

I think you're right in the sense that the *character introduction* for Ryder is bad in contrast to Shepard's. This is equally a problem with the squadmates except maybe PeeBee and Jaal who randomly hop on board on the ongoing plot "just because", but I'd also argue this is a larger issue that extends across the game as a whole because the premise itself is not properly established. Yes, we're going to Andromeda, but what then? Our planet isn't viable as we thought? Too bad, but let's go and check it out. Stuff happens, we don't know who Ryder is, don't know who Liam or Cora is, as you say, we only know Daddy, and then we abruptly become the Pathfinder because he said so afterwards and there's no formal process at all. We just rush through the story, get a ship, go do Pathfinder stuff. Compare that to Shepard who also enters an exciting incident right after he's established but then he lands on the Citadel where the larger context of the setting is established clearly to the player and THEN he becomes a Spectre. Andromeda fails at the premise because it does not set itself up properly. It's an issue that goes beyond just the fact that Ryder's significance as a protagonist isn't made clear on the first page of the script.

[@troykemp5329]

Just to nit pick a little bit but Jaal joined the tempest crew because Evfra ordered him to and Peebee joined because she knew Ryder would take her to new remnant, it wasn't "just because"

[@johnwotek3816]

The answer to that question is very simple: But no mather what scars you bear... Whatever uniform you wear... You can fight like a krogan, run like leopard But you'll never be better, than commander Shepard!

[@nekominiichigo5571]

I liked playing with both, Shepard was the hero and Ryder is the explorer. That and I felt less pressure when playing with Ryder, more at ease as a tried to figure out the ropes of a new galaxy. Shepard,I love you, but lets face it you gave me wrinkles and gray hair in my preteens.

[@royal22erick]

i think andromeda fail because it tried to be all 3 game of the trilogy at the same time and fails to do so because really you can't . in ME1 they set up shepard , the most important side characters and the half of the world , by half i mean the political atmosphere different species interaction with each other ect... but stay relatively light on locations the main focuse is on the citadel but little else is worthy of note . mainly ME1 is here the citadel the central hub for galactic community explore it , learn and save it . pretty standard borderline boring if not done well cought *destiny* , but it was necessary because they really fill that world so there is a lot to learn . for the characters at the time nobody really new how important liara,tali,garrus wrex and mainly anderson where , but it wasn't forced by the end of the game they your buddy's but not much more , ashley/kaidan death wasn't heartbreaking sad yes but nothing to dramatic because it wasn't suppose to be knowing all of them only for a few month and all . then we come to ME2 witch when you think about it was a pretty bold move , first starting the game by killing the hero , unheard of has far has i know , then taking the player completly in a different direction . no more alliance , strip the crew away " almost still have joker and karin" and introduce the player to the "darker" side of the galaxy , the underworld if you like . and introducing the "sidevillains" that is cerberus in more depth . what ME2 is doing is 1- complete the world introduced in ME1 2-setup a secound sets of side characters , and althought less important are more focused on so by the ends of the game you care a lot more about them than in ME1 3-also set the nature of the main character ability to lead by showing him able to handle more volatile crew and show the change in old characters from ME1 , basicly showing shepard ability to inspire more than just loyalty but growth in those characters apiration , confidence ect... then come ME3 where basicly " shit happen " the climax and the view of a devastating war and its effect on the main and side character . everything is set so that you care about the character , laugh at banter and jokes , dramatic death and even if the ending didn't please everyone it was still fine in my book . here where i think ME adromeda crash and burn . it try to be all this at the same time and fail in all of them , 1- you can't have easy and funny banter like ME 2and 3 without time to get to know the characters and love them but they do it right of the bat 2-you can't introduce something like the nexus aside things like the settlements especialy kadara and elaaden because in the end they all feels small . 3-i agree with thisisme800 you just can't put alec rider at the forfront like that and then expect to connect with the child out of nowhere 4- and this is 1 of the most flaw of adromeda i think is the tone , everything point toward a dire situation yet ryder is just joking around not really seams to care or anything most like everyone around , it just don't fit the critical situation they are in. finally :) if you are still reading probably not :) what i think they could have done is simple first - focus on finding the other ark , can still have your ground mission even exploration of a few world maybe tied in to the remtech and need for resources but i would have left the settlement part to a minimum for the first game at least. 2- have a more serious atmosphere and main character , something like ryder not sure about being the one in charge showing a little more and not gooffing around so much 3-instead of all that boring open world exploration focus on the nexus,arks and angara homeworld to effectively setup the adromeda galaxy more like ME1 did with the citadel that i think would have consize the game and made it more story orienting and help the dev to flesh out the main area and characters than those boring open world with in my opignion don't have any buisness in a mass effect game witch is like for its compeling story and character devlopment not running around for hour to settle and then move on to the next world until the story can unlock for a mission or two and back to running around to settle again and again thats just not mass effect at all .

[@Deadless906]

I cant believe i read all of that.

[@Deadless906]

mass effect Have ever played mass effect trilogy because if you havent then you have no idea what your taking about.

[@bossshun9]

I played them all myself. Honestly, Mass Effect 1, 2, and 3 gives you time to actually care about the characters because each has an interesting background and their live changes over time. Mass Effect Andromeda was too short to really like some things about them. I love the landscape in Andromeda they made, but the story could have been better.

[@TatySwan]

Shepard is a hero no matter what - a character to aspire to, to dream about, to be proud of. Ryder is just a silly kid who happened to be in a place and situation which led to some events. Plus later we understand that father Ryder made his kid pathfinder, ignoring Cora not because he, for example, saw potential or wanted him/her to shine. Nope. Just so nobody would throw their mother out of the airlock. Boom. Like a slap in the face. That's why I don't like Ryder.

[@bossshun9]

Nicely stated.

[@TimeToOpenACan]

I think they are two different characters and people shouldn't play Ryder expecting the same things from him/her than they did about Shepard. Shepard was a total bad ass, and you pretty much didn't have the choice to be anything else. With Ryder, there is no expectations, so you can build him/her however you want. I also like that Ryder has to prove him/herself to the galaxy. However I agree that it feels uncomfortable at the beginning, until later in the game when you know what way of playing feels right for you, and the fact that you see the Ryder twins through your father's memory several times, and you see them acting differently from what you would have done, is way to disturbing ! However I really love Ryder ! The way I play him is way more relaxing, funny and entertaining that Shepard. (I still prefer the trilogy to Andromeda though).

[@MrJH101]

A lot of it had to do with the dialogue. Shepard obviously had better written dialogue, but it was the Paragon/Renegade dialogue system that worked so much better simply because of how easy it was to understand. You knew exactly how Shepard would react (hardass, good, or neutral) and that even though you didn’t know exactly what Shepard would say, you knew the writers had time to write it out well to always be cool. Now Ryder’s dialogue approach (humorous, serious, professional, logical, etc.) was too complicated for a simple dialogue wheel to handle and it just didn’t work in my opinion. If they wanted a wider set of dialogue options over the Paragon/Renegade system then they should have just thrown away the dialogue wheel entirely and gone back to the Dragon Age Origins style of dialogue, giving your character more than four options. Or just do it like the Witcher games. The point is to keep it simple if you want to the audience to shape the character better.

[@johnkang2000]

SPOILER ALERT Also, Captain Anderson was one of the best tutorial/guiding character in the game. In ME:A there is really no mentor figure other than Cora who is very awkward because she was supposed to be the one in command. Everyone just stares at you googly eyed asking you to take leadership. If I dare say, Rydar is almost Godlike in terms of freedom and power he received from the beginning of the game. Shepard on the other hand had expectations and rules/laws/orders to follow. Also, with Rydar's young age and and all other companions except Drack and the Medic being old makes the ship feel...juvenile, almost like a scene from a sitcom where Drack is dad, Lexi is the mom, and everyone else in their junior high school uniform. Dragon Age Origin had similar issue with Alistair, but that was okay because Duncan managed to stay alive during the introductory act and Alistair's easy going personality made it very natural for the player to assume command.

[@editorrbr2107]

I’m not sure why this just came into my feed, but I’m not mad about it. That is an incredibly astute, subtle point I don’t think I’ve heard before. Well done

[@cgmdenverartist1047]

I agree because in the mass effect trilogy Shepard had a backstory of being a badass and everyone had expectation for him. Ryder's problem is that he/she never got the chance to explain their backstory, so it make it hard for us gamers to relate to Ryder at the beginning of the game and everyone in Andromeda had expectation for their father not the twins because in throughout the story you hear how great Alic Ryder was, but Scott or Sara are treat like crap because they are not their father. You start to relate to Ryder at the of the game. In away I thing Ryder is an alright character because Ryder had to prove him/her self to everyone that he/she can be a great pathfinder like his/her father. I think if more of the twins backstory was told more they would be great characters. I guess for now I have to say that Ryder is an alright character.

[@smudboy]

Drama comes from character development and flaws. Drama is what makes us care about characters. Drama primarily comes from character growth and the acceptance of their flaws. Shepard ultimately has none. The other aspect is positive values or properties, so we'll like the skilled or beautiful over the innocent and ugly (imagine if Shepard was a rookie ugly fellow, where he's introduced as such.) Luckily the choices in ME feel like they have weight, and the few choices we make (Rachni, Virmire survivor) feel dramatic, with the promise of payoff later -- that creates expectation, but on you the player, not you as Shepard. In ME, we choose Sheparde's backstory; even though that has little to do with the narrative, it's still a choice. We can also choose our diplomatic or aggressive reaction to things. Shepard's expectation of being a bad-ass are realized after becoming a Spectre are negligible. The whole mission to Andromeda is unexplained. Alec -- and everyone else along for the ride -- seems an idealistic fool (negative -- but how can you connect individually with a mission full of morons?) The child is just a child who is suddenly anointed with power and everyone accepts that. There's little reason or drama in these events, aside from heroic fatherly sacrifice.

[@shayliakara]

I might not fit in with the majority, but I like Ryder, as the charming, cute, and sarcastic daughter of the hero. At least, once I figured out how to get past he bugs of the game, and could play it, of course.. I am actually having fun with this game, finally. I have not beat it yet, and I am enjoying the rider as Sara Ryder.

[@wiseguy240Winston]

Last time I checked most of us aren't hardened military badasses. Ryder is clearly more relatable with his more warm hearted and casual non-military dialogue. He's an average joe who has to prove himself and lived a generally comfortable life with both parents. His reactions to things are less cool and collected like Shepard and he at times needs guidance and can get lost with planning much like any other newbie to war and exploration.

[@bossshun9]

Commander Shepard Background: Earthborn: No parents, grew up on Earth around gangs only to later enlist. Spacer: Travel around space and transfers to different commanding officers or stations. Colonist: Grew up on the edge of unknown space on a colony. Sole Survivor: Lost an entire platoon to a thrasher maw and survived. Ruthless: Sacrificed most of his team to eliminate the enemy. War Hero: Stop wave after wave of slavers from trying to kill him and his crew. Pathfinder Ryder Background: Assigned to an Outpost near a mass relay. Later, goes to a new galaxy to seek adventure. It is clear to see who is more reliable and awe inspiring as a hero. Ryder was a young man about 25 or younger who was getting exposed to stuff. When people doubt him or treated him with any small or large form of disrespect, he apologized or joke his way through serious issues. It makes it kinda hard to be inspired by that. Not to mention, the Archon didn't reveal his true plan for why he wanted to destroy freewill. Shepard was a single person who didn't tolerate shit from anyone regardless of the up bringing or background. Any of the replies could have been a violent response or a peaceful reply. And most of the bad guys or enemies actually gave Shepard a real reason to want to stop them. Overall, Shepard and his crew were the true heroes of Mass Effect and each have any amazing story to relate to. Ryder and his crew hace decent stories but the hero lacks the backbone to stand up for their own belief.

[@oliviawilliams6204]

To me the more a blank slate the better. In a RPG I want to create my character not being forced down a path

[@nathanielnadeau6501]

I never really misunderstood who Ryder was supposed to be tbh. The story lays it out pretty clearly. Your not the one who was supposed to be the hero but yet here you are. A scared "kid." Who lost their father and has to rebuild the project without having any experience. For me that always made sense. And it put into perspective the decisions made about how the character plays in regards to situations. The lack of confidence, the sarcastic quips at dire situations are things you'd expect from that sort of character. I'm not arguing that Ryder fails in comparison to Shepherd, just saying I can see the ideas Bioware had in designing them.

[@aesketches]

Ryder is like if Shepard would have a child. Trying to live up to his/her/their parents' success.

[@wedgeantilles4712]

My female Shepard was a colonial warhero (paragon) and that's what set Shepard apart from Ryder. Shepard has experienced and fought the toughest son of a bitches in the galaxy. She has seen her family getting killed, She held off an assault on Mindoir BY HERSELF. She was the first human spectre, tasked to stop the reaper "sovereign" "only the resourcefulness and bravery by the commander and crew of the SSV Normandy stopped him". Ryder has a HUGE gap to fill and she/he hasn't experienced a fraction of what Shepard has accomplished and he/ she hasn't made the most difficult decisions a leader has to make. Ryder has yet to decide which of her crew members she must sacrifice or being forced to work for the enemy for the good of the galaxy.

[@KageGodo]

when people want perfection, want everything given or told to them, made up for them, it takes away what RPG's used to be.... shepard was a badass you made more badass. ryder is a blank slate but more down to earth. an every-person that we MAKE a badass as the game goes on. they struggle, we struggle, we perservere, they perservere, hero is made. i didn't come into andromeda expecting garrus wrex tali shepard and mordin to appear out of nowhere and all my questions answered. i went into andromeda clean. "let's learn about andromeda, explore, find out motivations, see who else can grow on me." and i actively gave the game a chance to voercome any of it's flaws. people paint the witcher as perfect, when it is anything but. mass effect shepard trilogy? there's several dozen problems in those 3 games people are putting nostaglia goggles on for just to hate this game more. i gave this game a chance, i let this game tell me a story. i let it draw me in. and i enjoyed it. ryder isn'tm a badass we make into a legendary immortal warrior. ryder is... a person, normal like me or you. and we build respect, build relations, build home, and become a hero through a gauntlet of mistakes and hardships. we perservere, we adapt, we get back on the horse and ride. that's the story, that's ryder, that's what makes andromeda feel good. it's not shepard. it's not a garrus moment, it's not a wrex grandfather scene. it's not the first trilogy, and it shouldn't have to be torn apart for being different. that's my view on it. mass effect aint dead. and any real fan won't let it die either. any real mass effect fan will support a sequel and enjoy the games for what they are, instead of what they arent. im a real mass effect fan. and im sticking to it.

[@joshuawillis602]

Damn straight man. Couldn’t agree more. People in these comments don’t seem to know the meaning of the word “relatable”.

[@RwRBoris]

Basicly Shepard is a legend General Global Global Elite and Ryder is some Silver II 12 Yo Kid

[@ConnorLonergan]

From what I know Ryder was intended to be inferior to shepherd in the beginning. Basically we were to play shepherd as he starts out as a lowly private and work our way to be the badass N7. What they should of done is fix the narration and diolouges so we can get the feeling of being that new guy

[@FantomPhoenix]

To be honest I recall hearing a saying that sounded something like "The hero is only as good as the villain they overcome/face" I haven't played Andromeda but I just finished the legendary trilogy against the Reapers. I have however heard of the Kett, and that many players see them as moustache twirling "big bad" villains that are there for no real reason. Compare that to the reapers, who while they have some moustache twirling properties, they are still far more interesting due to the initial mystery behind the origins of these cosmic, technological, eldritch horrors. And you have a pretty weak antagonist, not to mention that in mass effect one, à SINGLE Reaper absolutely wrecked the entire citadel fleet, which just drove home how dangerous these things were. I've read players of ME:A complaining how the Kett don't feel like a real threat at all, but again, I haven't actually played the game. I've only seen one Kett interaction (voice acting was bland Imo) and that's really it. It feels like there are very little stakes in the game.

[@BarelloSmith]

"Compelling" and "relatable" is not the same thing. While it is totally subjective who you find more compelling and I completely understand, why you think it is Shepard, I would argue that Ryder is way more relatable than Shepard and - depending on your playing style in the OT - more consistent as a character. Shepard's background (regardless of which one you choose) is pretty unrelatable for most people and she/he is already greater than life at the beginning of the game. Also, because of the way, you can controll her/him, Shepard lacks consistent charakter traits. Ryder on the other hand is way more of a "normal"/average person and already has a personality which you can only alter slightly through your choices. On a number of occasions, where Ryder just reacted randomly to other characters, I caught myself saying "that's exactly what I would have said". I never really had such a moment with Shepard. On the other hand, I love to play Shepard as a badass character, something I couldn't really do with Ryder.

[@joshuawillis602]

Precisely. People don’t seem to know the word “relatable”. Ryder is absolutely the most of relatable. In the OT, Shepard is already a legend, in Andromeda you make Ryder/yourself a legend.

[@darlack0301]

Ryder is just a kid but she is still Pathfinder's crewmember and yet from all of her dialogue options I have my doubts of her being in the crew, tbh I feel none of them are qualified for the job except for the Father of course.

[@xxsuperdragonslayerxx]

darlack0301 well, tbf the "qualifications" are nothing related to being a militant. They were all dreamers, explorers, and a few actual trained soldiers

[@wiseguy240Winston]

darlack0301 Ummm Drack is a combat vet older than grunt and wrex. Liara wasn't qualified as for the job either in terms of combat. Liam was law enforcement and Cora was trained by the alliance and the asari commandos. Jaal is a high ranking member of the angari resistance. Vetra grew up fatherless in a planet full of mercenaries and smugglers. Besides peebee this comment is as ignorant as they come. Did you even play the game?

[@datemasamune2904]

Shepherd's dance is what makes it.

[@thebagonline2113]

The is because with Ryder he was a completely new person, yes he had history in the Milky Way, but when his father died, he had to pick up everything his father left behind, something he wasn't prepared for, which is the reason he doesn't feel relatable at first, but after awhile Ryder really does change as a person and a Pathfinder. He is learning for the first time like many others are in Andromeda, im sure with Alec things would have felt different, but maybe too close to the trilogy with hin being an N7 and all. And we have already gotten to play as an N7 soldier type with Shepard. As far as the crew, they weren't as compelling and interesting as the crew from the trilogy, I felt like this Andromeda crew were just 'there' the only ones with some sort of intrigue is, Cora, Suvi, Jaal, and Drack, maybe Liam a bit too. I really hope mass effect keeps on trying new ideas, maybe a prequel to Mass Effect set in Anderson and Hacketts' early years in the alliance, or maybe a game about how they discovered the Protheans, and The First Contact war? Those would be some cool ideas for a prequel game

[@BJ-xy9fx]

As much as I like both of them Ryder should have been given some renegade options hopefully in future games that system will return fingers crossed and don't forget we've had more time with Shep than Ryder

[@agrey832]

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Sara Ryder!!! She's awesome, Male Ryder not so much. That's not to say she's well written, because she isn't, but I love her playful sarcastic wit. playing this game constantly reminded me how much I miss Shepard and the Normandy crew. I tried REALLY hard to like the other characters, but I just couldn't, because they simply aren't interesting. in the original trilogy, there were only about 5 characters I didn't care for, in Andromeda's case, its the exact opposite.....tragic

[@kozzywozzy]

I can connect with my Shepard, a spacer and Hero of the Skyllian Blitz, a lot more easily than Ryder. It is really jarring how differently I connect to them

[@RinCrypt8959]

well Shepard had 3 games and Ryder only 1, and story placement had you takeover after Shepard became great, with ryder you half to earn it, so of course ryder needs more time, also i sort of like not being the chosen one the minute i get off the ship, the respect feels earned.

[@marcmichaud1643]

I think we're looking at Shepperd through a greater lens due to the fact the character has alot more content to judge from then Ryder. And Ryder is much more relatable. Because of where the story begins compared to Shepperds. Shepperd already has years spend within the Alliance. We start with him being 2IC(Second in Command) to Anderson. He's deep into his military career already as he has risen through the ranks and been selected for N7 training and is experienced within Human Special Forces. Now we have Ryder who other then spend some time within the Alliance really hasn't done anything in regards to a military career perspective, Ryder was just getting started before leaving for Andromeda basically. Other then some Alliance Training that probably the vast majority of members all recieve, it's nothing compared to the seasoned veteran Shepperd is (No matter what backstory you choose). Ryders getting Trial by fire, with the scope of the training basically having basicl Alliance Training along with some Initative Training. So we're basically establishing the backstory as we go along vs having it established when we first meet Commander Shepperd. Which is why I find Ryder more relatable. Ryders earning it as they go along vs Shepperd is established and really only trying to convince everyone of the Reaper Threat vs Shepperds actual competence in the role they are in.

[@commandersheperd2199]

All 4 mass effect games are perfect and shepards and ryder are both equally relatable in my opinion!In the 1st yr i had the trilogy i played it through alot but i played Andromeda through more in the 1st year at least 11 full playthroughs.

[@mikewillis9537]

Probably because mostly we had 3 games to get to know shepard, Ryder only got one

[@joshuawillis602]

And the stupid biased haters probably ruined the chance for Ryder to have two more games. Shepherd is legendary but Ryder is more relatable

[@dirtypms]

Actually, I found myself more able to relate to Ryder. Granted, it may be because at the time I only played a third of ME1 and I technically was a newcomer to the franchise. But also because my Ryder looks more like me than I could ever make my Shepard look

[@jones20533]

I wonder if andromeda came out first and had a trilogy arc we would be thinking differently

[@petersheehan6927]

I think entirely so. People not liking andromeda and Ryder to me is just like a rehash of all the ppl who didn't like AC3 cause connor kenway wasn't like Ezio

[@mae-r4509]

What I have come to realize is that some games have that extra unique personality to them , unique mood, I am not talking about unique stuff they alone do, no but that extra thing that is the sum of all things in it, that make it a good game or not. The witcher 3 has it, Kotor series has it, Yakuza series (new to it myself) has it, VTMB has it in abundance .. ME. trilogy has it, DA.Origin has it You feel the world is real and alive, you live in that world. Then there are games that feel empty (DA:I / MEA) ... like they have great mechanics, good other points but it still feels lacking ..

[@124Nightwing]

I got connected with both Shepard and Ryder at about the same pace, honestly, but I am far more emotionally invested in Shepard after you have to choose between Kaiden or Ashley. That was one of the first decisions that was the most difficult to make and you are with Shepard through the whole experience while Ryder doesn't really have those moments. Honestly, I would say you wouldn't be connected to Ryder at all unless you chose to be a casual, sarcastic character.

[@zulchemical]

TBH Shepard set the bar really high. Ryder can't even scratch it.

[@Ainar86]

Lol, Shepard absolutely is a blank slate character. Everything about them that's default and unchangeable is so bland that it disappears into the background and even the backstories are just an initial setup that have barely any influence on the later events. You create Shepard with your choices so it's obviously easier to relate to them. On the other hand Ryder has a full backstory that is, for the most part, non-customizable as it ties into the main story so you either like it or not. There's also less flexibility with some choices and no transparent system of "right or wrong" (though Paragon and Renegade were more like "conformist and non-conformist", especially in ME2). Personally I had no issue relating to "my" Ryder and most of the time I was able to make the choices I wanted to make. Andromeda was by no means perfect but Ryder was far from being its main problem.

[@LgiovanniF]

Because we all like to think we are heros, not normal people mostly lost and teying anything and everything to get buy

[@cathalhughes5996]

i always liked shepard because he was a hero and a soldier he was honorable and for me going through the paragon rote he was kind and understanding and a symbol to aspire to he always had a inspiring speech so far 50% through andromada and nothing even close to inspiring i still arent that big into ryder i find jaal and drakas more interesting hell drakas cora and jaal i think are the only interesting characters in my opinion and kallor but i like sularians cora has most lilely been the first and only human huntress and gas experiance no other humans have had drakes is a korgan and an old one at that his seen his race in nuclear war to their uplifting to the virus thats slowly killing his people jaal is only interesting for feeding my hunger for learning about alien culture

[@quantum5661]

paragon shep was about getting shit done the right way as best as you can. renegade shep was about getting shit done whatever it takes. give it all and save the world. ryder was about trying to make sure the world knew he could get the job done. one of these things is not like the others, one of these things should die in a fire.

[@Ironmaidenportugal]

Everybody listen up. Its me, Shepard. If theres no weird shrine of me...... ....Im gonna be very unhappy....

[@kanden27]

Opening scenes Shepard: Getting ready to start a mission behind bad ass music Ryder: Getting her ass out of bed But honestly, when you pick your starting class. I hoped that it would provide a narrative backstory. Like being a leader, working stealthily, or being a powerful biotic. Instead, you either protected a Mass Effect relay, or you protected protheon dig sites. Both very passive jobs.

[@rustyshackle8000]

I like the idea of Ryder: a rookie thrust into a position of power and forced to adapt. I think that if the writing was better, it would have worked, I think. Even without the Paragon/Renegade system, having a Ryder that's your own instead of a uniform awkward nice person would have been great. What about a brash, arrogant Ryder desperate to prove themselves, or one feeling the weight of leadership? Anything other than...honestly I can't even explain what we got. Just...nothing. Which is a shame, because I think the voices for the twins are great and fit their characters, though most of the cast has this, with their performances being hurt by what I can assume is mediocre direction and a rushed development. I don't hate Andromeda. I'm more disappointed at what it could have been.

[@salado1944]

I dont think shepard is relatable at all, He/She is the humanity's best and is written in a way to be always the hero that saves they day with next to no weaknesses, even if you as the player havent accomplished anything Shepard already starts as the best of the best and the only situation were you can really screw up is in the suicide mission during ME2. The twin Ryders are some no ones that ended up as the peak of the spear by mere accident and have to deal with it, theres a lot of situations that can get Ryder in awkward situations or were you have to apologise for making a mistake or a bad call. To me at least i find more engaging the whole "Kid that has to grow up and take responsability" Its a shame it was poorly executed tho but if i were to relate to any of these two i will always pick Ryder....since well iam not a battle hardened space veteran N7 that can brute force his way through most situations.

[@joshuawillis602]

Couldn’t have said it better myself. People here are confusing “relatable” with “likable”. Ryder twins are just like real life people. They start off small but through experience they become huge

[@leoncoben6983]

From the moment I made my first casual and emotional responses I connected to Ryder. He was already the witty light-hearted character at the very start who could sometimes be serious. I didn't get that with Shepard and still can't connect to him as well as I do with Ryder. Ryder kinda starts out as weak character that grows stronger throughout the game which I love whereas Shepard started out strong which is boring. Most obstacles that was in Shepard's way he kinda just plowed through them while Ryder struggled a bit. My opinion but I know I'm gonna get ripped somewhere down the line. Example: Most Steven Segall movies I've seen always has him defeat the antagonist with barely a scratch. Boring. For crying out loud he straight up killed himself in Machete. Whereas in say.....the first Spider-Man movie he got FUCKED UP by Goblin and continued to get good thrashings by his opponents in later films.

[@nexxus2614]

Because Ryder feels like a video game character and Shepard like a living person.

[@joshuawillis602]

You have it backwards.

[@murasakibebeby3127]

I just now bought andromida due to the spring break reduced price sale. I just figured why not? Was bored. Was needing something i havent played before yet for entertainment. Even though ive heard thousands upon thousands of complaints about it. But it was on cheap sale. So figured why not. Can you please give me some pointers and heads ups? Ive played the entirety of the Shepard trilogy. But andromida is new to me. Oh! And dont let spoilers hold you back. I dont really care about that. Im not a picky person.

[@jameslanier2510]

They're not. Ryder is more relatable. Shepard is more aspirational.

[@antonio6140]

Personally, having played the original trilogy and absolutely loving it...I prefer Ryder. Sure, Shepard IS the badass charismatic hero that everyone looks up to, but Ryder is the more human character. Not just Ryder though, I feel like all of the squad members (except Liam, can't stand the guy) are so well developed and I genuinely cared for each and every one of them. I ended up romancing Gil, but I was always checking up on Cora, Vetra and Jaal because I was always wondering what else I was gonna discover about them and how I could help them. The lack of paragon/renegade options here were actually something I quite appreciated. I'm someone who doesn't particularly enjoy taking sides, so being as neutral as possible, but also making my opinions known without invoking the wrath of a particular alien species upon me, was a very welcome addition. Lastly, I haven't played the original trilogy in a while (I just finished Andromeda last month) but I feel as though Shepard's delivery was mostly "robotic", while Ryder (at least male Ryder which was the one I played as) was more believable/had more emotion in the dialog. That being said, I can't wait to play through the remastered trilogy and enjoy the DLC's I didn't have a chance to play back then, because at the end of the day I love all of the ME games :)

[@dasPartyhut]

Shepard over Ryder any day of the week.

[@joshuawillis602]

Ryder is more relatable

[@joshsmith420]

The fact that their isnt the paragon/renegade diologe anymorr just makes ryder kinda boring

[@lrj7203]

I played mass effect series on PS3 got to like shephard from day 1. He are just my kind of player. Honest hero/badass. Just those choices u can do L2 or R2. In the end of the 3rd game I actually got sad do to u couldn't be him anymore. So I restarted the series about 3or 4 times over the year's. Even when I had bought my PS4. When I do my top 5 list of all games i played are mass effect No1 and the Witcher 3 No2. Then It gets hard to choose. when i bought M E Andromeda I had to high expectations on the game so I got so disappointed I stopped playing just forgot about it, until the Shephard Legendary PS4 came. I played that through from 1 to 3 in a row no game in between. After that I tried Andromeda again. I got as bored in the beginning but I wanted to give it a chance this time. Now I played about 100 hours and counting. It never coming near the first three, it's ok though. When I bought PS4 I hoped they were to remaster or do a remake on the mass effect series.

[@joshuawillis602]

Comparing a single game to a trilogy. Are you dense?

[@yokiryuchan7655]

So basically the Pathfinder should have been the protagonist Instead we play as the Pathfinder's kid. Whoever thought of that idea should be fired. I thought Alec Ryder was WAYYYYY more interesting then his kids.

[@joshuawillis602]

You’re delusional. It was extremely interesting to play as the new pathfinder. They start off as inexperienced but overtime they become tougher and wiser which makes them very relatable

[@yokiryuchan7655]

@@joshuawillis602 Public opinion says otherwise you scumbag.

[@joshuawillis602]

@@yokiryuchan7655 so if public opinion says murder is ok does that mean murder is ok? Get your mob mentality behind out of here you ignorant child

[@yokiryuchan7655]

@@joshuawillis602 Are you Okay?

[@joshuawillis602]

@@yokiryuchan7655 are you ok? You let mob mentality dictate your thinking.

[@HolyknightVader999]

It would have been more fun to play as Alec Ryder.

[@Hellion73]

Yeah, but why? Simple anwer: He looked competent and capable🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️😒👍

[@HolyknightVader999]

@@Hellion73 Exactly. Not to mention that he was voiced by Mr. Krabs!

[@Hellion73]

@@HolyknightVader999 Yeah man, that is just another thing, among so many others, on why I am still so sour about MEA to this very day... I was so hyped when EAware announced he was part of the voice cast, thinking "this will be epic"...then I steped into the cow crap that the game really was🤦‍♂️😡👍

[@HolyknightVader999]

@@Hellion73 How cool would it have been to play as an N7 who has the voice of Clancy Brown? Damn cool.

[@Hellion73]

@@HolyknightVader999 They trick us all, even with the nostalgia factor with the trailer, showing an N7 operative that never was...the Rayder's were the vivid image of how nepotism works for the young gen...😡

[@GlassSuperstar]

Maybe it's simple timing In that, Shepard was first then Ryder. Even if their backgrounds were switched, the brain 🧠 is more loyal to familiarity.Also MEA is ME Disney and has its tech flaws, ME trilogy is so immersive from get go. Just my thoughts.

[@otter4370]

Hey, what was the song playing in the background up until 2:00? I love these kinds of sci-fi ambience tracks.

[@legendgamer676]

oTTer It's called "Heleus" from the Mass Effect Andromeda soundtrack 👍🏻

[@thisisme800]

Smoodeez is right. I used Heleul from the soundtrack. Sorry for the late reply.

[@lordhelmchen3154]

Shepard: A battle-hardened soldier, a veteran chosen to become the first human SPECTRE ever because of his skills and experience. He stumbles across a terrible threat and gives all he got to try to defend the Galaxy. Ryder: A *kid* of a tough and badass veteran who sort of stumbles across the challenge to save the Andromeda-settlers purely by chance because his dad dies. And for some reason everyone makes Ryder, someone without any deeper experience, the new leader of millions of people. Now this "thrown into a role he is not yet ready to fill" concept *can* work very well... if it is executed in a good intelligent way. Ryder never really struggles with the responsibility too much, succeeds in most things he does (but where Shepard can do this because we know he is the best of the best Ryder is still just "kid of cool guy") and most people accept him pretty fast. I mean yeah, some of the other leaders dislike Ryder and don't want to follow him... but they still do anyway and there is no deeper character development in either them or Ryder. And this is just *one* aspect of why Ryder is terrible. So terrible I remember almost nothing remarkable throughout the whole game.

[@joshuawillis602]

So much wrong in this comment

[@lordhelmchen3154]

@@joshuawillis602 Ah yes, you convinced me I was wrong, thank you. ... Jokes aside, feel free to enlighten me.

[@riches3581]

👌🏻 beautifully said

[@AG26498]

I recently played the Legendary edition as a Renegade Shepard and I saw clearly what the difference was. Shepard is not just a badass but confident and determined. She doesn't give a single f*ck about what others think of her and won't let others walk over her. Ryder is a pushover who yields easily. But you can never intimidate Shepard.

[@joshuawillis602]

Ryder is unproven and not as experienced as Shepard you ignorant child. Why would he be exactly like Shepard? He’s still young and has a lot to do.

[@salado1944]

Shepard was a battle hardened veteran N7 she/he has a lot of reasons to be the way they since well they have the background to back it up and have a whole ass army too meanwhile Ryder is some random Joe that ended up in a terrible situation with almost no training and now has to take responsabity with limited resources Of course it feels good to be the badass hero with no weaknesses that takes shit from no one but Ryder is in no position to go playing badass hero around, guy/girl have to start making outpost as fast as they can or more people will die.

[@alexThunderrr]

I actually prefer Ryder over Shepard. As you said, Shepard started as a badass and ended like a badass. Ryder was almost the opposite of a badass at the beginning. Everyone doubted or even hated Ryder and I had to do work to prove them wrong. When people actually considered Ryder as a badass pathfinder I knew, that I earned it.

[@Ahuizotl_Yolotl]

i enjoyed andromeda but.... rayder starts as a joke and end as a joke while the game keep trying to convince you he/she is badass. I hate so much how the poor writing screw this game. It has the lore, the gameplay and a lot of good ideas but fucking EA is destroying bioware

[@cathalhughes5996]

alexThunderrr shepard only started as a badass in the alliance the council didnt know who the fuck he was and didnt care until he saved the councilers he was seen as a hero because he saved his team members and we can piece together that he had no family until his crew his closet to a family before was anderson

[@yogendrachouhan2328]

Royce Rome so true. Sheperd was a god. Remnants and dick Kett weren't even a worthy challenge. Nobody respects Ryder bcoz he doesn't deserve much.

[@zemrocku1287]

Shepard did have a Family if you choose to be a Spacer Andromeda why not the Best Game out there was in several ways Better... The Jump Jet the Graphics though they Sucked upon Release but they are now much better The Lore and Character Development was the Real reason it failed... Andromeda should have had Paragon and Renegade Options but keeping Ryders Personality similar to what they made it The Real disappointment was Weapon and Armor Crafting those this really wasn't a Upgrade because I can get better Armor when Buying it then making it So their was a Lot og Up's and Downs but more Downs then the Ups as we wasn't given a AAA Game but more along an A Game and Close to B Rated even it's clear they didn't have a Full Staff Team making this Game and didn't have Professionals working on the Game

[@troykemp5329]

I find the crafting system particularly useful when doing an insanity play through.

[@SailorNeptun1992]

I actually was more confused in teh second playthroug of Andromenda or something there are more funny answers most of the time you can choose, and I did that all the time, because I LIKE playing a sarcastig and chaotic neutral charakter so the settings met my expectations because I thought it was kinda like Dragon Age 2 in that regard when I tried to play a all good and honest and gentle charakter on second play-through Ryder was still pretty sarcastic and that threw me a little off guard - but by then I already liked the charakter

[@christianwright5874]

As for my two cents, what I’d say makes Shepard more compelling than Ryder is that Shepard has the stronger supporting cast, both in terms of squadmates and of the galaxy’s other denizens.

[@charlespc]

Shepard has a past, he's a badass and pretty charismatic. He can be a hero, a villain or neither. You can mold him in the way you want, Ryder is just a random kid who got an important title by just being the son/daughter of someone important. Resume: The original trilogy is very well written, even if Shepard is a blank slate, this is not bad because he can be "painted" (to say it in some way) by you.

[@joshuawillis602]

That’s false. Shepard is a hero by default from beginning to end. Ryder is someone that has to work their way up the ladder to become a legend. Ryder is someone you can mold. Shepard is mostly determined from the start

[@josephallard6394]

For me, it comes down to the writing. It was lackluster at best or at worse. The Ryder twins were.... are supposedly in their mid to late twenties. So, how much life experiences have they had, really? I play as Sara Ryder where she goes from being a Prothean researcher... archeologist to standing watch over a mass relay or serving as an alliance peacekeeper. So, which is it? Commander Shepard was an N7 in the Alliance Military exclusively. Plus, the supporting characters were badly written. If it were entirely up to me Liam and Peebee would not exist on my crew. As for the difference between the female Shepard and the female Ryder is the quality of voice acting. Jennifer Hale was much more compelling if you ask me. However, it goes back to the writing and dialogue.

[@blueasarilavellan3201]

I like them both, Shepard and Ryder, but I feel more like Ryder. I like more path - I start in beginning and grow up,... no - hey, I am here and you don't know me, but I am big hero :) in sequel I like it, bud in new game, I like character development :)

[@christianpesantez7303]

What gets me is that they say that Shepard had no family and grew up on the streets yet in the game you can talk to his mom

[@victoriasharpe1661]

Shepard has a big personality, battle hardened, knows what he's doing, already has a built up reputation. Inspires confidence and leadership. He pulls you in with that charisma, and the friendship he has with his crew... it's irreplaceable. With Ryder, he's a rookie who has no reputation or experience. Somebody who is unsure of himself and didn't even expect to be pathfinder, nor did he earn it because it was basically dumped in his lap. He's a blank slate which is to say he's a complete unknown, which makes people wary, slow to trust. Yes he eventually finds his footing and figures out his strengths and proves people wrong in the end, so I guess it all depends on your personality. I relate more to Ryder because I feel that's how I would act if something that big was just thrown in my face. In real life I have little confidence, and as a whole learning as I go, winging it, is basically me. But I still will always love Shepard more because I grew up with his story and the overall gaming experience of the trilogy, is irreplaceable and unforgettable

[@zero5496]

Three main reason, two of the three Shepard background live in a harsh unforgiving environment and all three military record proven he’s a toughest son of a bitch you can get, reason two he’s n7 and the prodigy of the first n7, third he’s the first human Spectre, basically what make him so special where all covered by Anderson’s log in the citadel dlc apartment

[@ericksetiawan9855]

I wouldn't say Andromeda is bad, tbh it's good but Mass Effect without Shepard is like Witcher without Geralt, God of War without Kratos, Tomb Rider without Lara Croft, Hitman without Agent 47.. it feels like something's missing.. something big..

[@joshuawillis602]

I disagree. Mass effect is a huge universe with all different types of people and species. It makes sense that Shepherd isn’t the only one who can be heroic and legendary

[@petersheehan6927]

Completely disagree. Especially since you can play Shepard so differently each playthrough. T

[@panbouk]

I'm late to the party, but now desided to play ME:A.(haven't finished it yet). Ryder to me feels an "accidental" hero. Got the rank of pathfinder, just because you where there and not the other sibling. Not to mention that so far I to the game, I don't feel the part of Pathfinders important... The game makes it seems tha anyone could have a title like that. They talk as it is the hardest thing to do, or require training and failed in every aspect to deliver that. Only because you have an advanced AI that can hack/open doors you could teraform planets. And as far as diplomatic experience goes, it seems to throw a line "I get it, you should be cautious" and works every time. I think they missed an opportunity to make a captain Picard type of character, it would have served the game way better.

[@HolyknightVader999]

That's because Shepard starts off as someone people want to be. A hero who won a great victory despite bad odds. A tough-as-nails soldier who survived when everyone else died. A ruthless, calculating soldier who got the job done, no matter what the cost. And the galactic government already saw Shepard's potential and sent someone to serve as a mentor and guide, since the Commander was already being scouted out as a possible candidate for the Spectres, the Council's most elite warriors.

[@joshuawillis602]

That’s why Ryder is more relatable. He doesn’t start off as a legend, he becomes a legend. Like every other legend does they start off as a regular Joe until they accomplish incredible things

[@288theabe]

Really interesting analysis!

[@UacnDinoo]

I prefer Shepard over Ryder any day but Ryder is more relatable. Shepard is like a role model and Ryder is just above the avarege.

[@vitoriturriaga3468]

I agree with this assessment, Shepard was without a doubt the better protagonist. That said now that Ryder is more or less a fleshed out character, mainly because of the player's choices and story progression, if Bioware is smart they'll add more gravitas to his character in the next game. They can go with the player forging Ryder's legend angle vs Shepard's playing as a legend angle. They should also bring back the Paragon/Renegade system or something close to it.

[@petersheehan6927]

Ryder suffers not from being written worse but from being written differently and following Shep. Much like Connor in AC3 following Ezio's three games. You spend three games and dozens or hundreds of hours falling in love with your Shepard or Ezio. Then the next game in the series has a different hero. That's not your hero. That's not what you expected from that title. I'm not saying ryder is better just that they're different. Blank slate also worked very well for BioWare with the DragonAge series. As far as I can recall not one of those protagonists gets as badass an intro as Shepard (that's canon and not Varric screwing around). Each character starts as a relative nobody and becomes a somebody. Implying the blank slate method isn't used effectively by BioWare is just silly.

[@negativezero8174]

Shepard can grow better facial hair.

[@tut28Angel]

They should have kept the Paragon and Renegade stuff. Tho I feel like MEA would be better if they didn't rush it, fixed the single player stuff and added DLC. I also think the reason we loved Shepard more is because we got three games with 150+ hours with them. Ryder not so much.

[@dummy_vicc2976]

the simplest answer is that not only does shepard get three whole games to explore their character, you can also choose their origin. Although ryder may have been planned for more games, the fixed origin and character of "kid who has to step into their well known fathers shoes" just isnt fun for a lot of people

[@Junglehunter677]

With shephard, we knew whose boots we were stepping in to. With Ryder, we knew whos boots we wanted to step into it. OG mass effect party members are what made shephard great, each interaction felt unique, every character had their own opinion. With Andromeda, everything was built up for your father to be shephards replacement, he was the badass, he was the N7, Ryder was a nobody, that had to build himself up from nothing when his father sacrificed himself (true N7!) To me it just felt forced, whereas with shephard you could do anything, you were Commander Shephard, the man, the myth, the legend.

[@joshuawillis602]

This is the stupidest comment ever

[@Schmunzelfee]

Because Shepard had three fucking Games plus DLCs for character development. And Shepard is more a role model type than Ryder is. Plus Ryder is much younger than Shepard and not that experienced.

[@treyzcash99]

Bro that mans dead like that’s his fault for dying

[@Istvan_F]

Perhaps it's just me, but I prefer the naive, inexperienced and not well regarded characters. They have the potential to actually evolve, gain acceptance. And I also find idealized, "iconic" or symbolic heroes a bit unrealistic. Shep was just waay to "perfect" from my point of view, whereas Ryder got into the protagonist role "by accident", unexpected. Of course two totally different situations. I would say, pro'lly Ryder is more closely resembles the average person, whereas Shep is kind of an idolized character what most people want to see themselves. Definitely not me, btw. Oh, and Ryder is cc. 5 years younger, a real rookie , almost a kid. I must admit I'm very infantile for my age& often reminisce my teen years, and very ambigous in real life.. But heck, I found the main character of Andromeda more credible. Sort of.. It would have been interesting to see how events turn in the sequels of the 1st game. Would have..

[@kassie3320]

My main bit i hated was the gun/ armour system was clunky and too complicated plus you leved up say one gun then the stats of down and you need to level it again too tedious