Thomas Szasz: Does mental illness exist?

There is a link below to a book where Thomas Szasz expands on some of the themes discussed in these videos:
The Myth of Mental Illness: Foundations of a Theory of Personal Conduct
amzn.to/3RCi16X
It was published around the same time that these films were recorded.
A conversation with Thomas Szasz. Filmed at the Centre of Excellence in Interdisciplinary Mental Health where he discusses 'does mental illness exist?'

[@randomfullywonderful]

Violently restraining people, holding them down, and injecting them with a neuroleptic, rendering them unconscious, can easily cause a lifetime of PTSD. If you want to argue that it's sometimes necessary, we can't even begin that discussion until you concede that it is by far most often done unnecessarily.

[@DixieDee]

I was 13 the first time I was put in a children's psychiatric ward. Saying it was a horrifying experience is an understatement. I went on to have 6 more hospitalizations as an "adolescent"; and what you wrote is so true. The entire system is a sham. The ONLY thing that eventually helped me was getting "Born-Again" in 2011. That's really the only thing that can help anyone. Human beings are meant to have a relationship with their Creator. For without having the Holy Spirit; the mind is susceptible to all kinds of horrors. That isn't to say we don't experience "traumas" even as Believers, but it's within a certain restraint. To put it succinctly: all the "help" the world can offer a suffering person is moot; if, in the end, that person still goes to hell. And the ONLY way to avoid that is through Jesus. Amen!

[@davidzaiser9929]

The idea that forced psychiatric detention prevents suicide is rediculous. If it's ever happened to you, you'd know that it increases your problems exponentially. It is like pushing someone off a cliff because you are concerned they are going to jump.

[@jean-pierredevent970]

I know a colleague musician who had in her early twenties severe problems with her nasty husband and she flipped out, started to act hysterically. She was given a antipsychotic injection (but didn't ask for it ) is even now taking some Abilify (which makes her somewhat slow and heavy ) and this very in fact understandable crisis changed her life profoundly in many ways. I can indeed imagine that being taken to a mental institution changes the image others have from you and your self esteem even more. I am no expert but under very severe stress some react probably "psychotic" and then that's their normal way of expression if it happens extremely rarely.

[@hannahlee5175]

"It is like pushing someone off a cliff because you are concerned they are going to jump." That's a really nice way to put it.

[@maggie0285]

Yes. Forced psychiatric detention for suicide thoughts or attempts is stupid. Doctors do it for legal reasons, to protect their licenses. The doctor could care less that you are missing work. It's a holding cell. You do your time, 72 hours and you are released. No one cares about your well being. To get out of the hospital you lie and say you aren't suicidal even if you are.

[@enlightenedturtle9507]

There's studies that show what you say is true

[@wisdompie7497]

Facts

[@RandoOnline_]

This man knows! My god the damage that has been done to so many people through all these "treatments"

[@BL-sd2qw]

I'm one of those people, sadly 🖐😞 I have so much brain damagd (doctors admitted that they caused me generalized corticosubcortical atrophy) that I cannot even remember anything anymore. Literally...

[@stevekaylor5606]

Tardive Dyskinesia is also caused by doctors - iatrogenic!@@BL-sd2qw

[@birkrollo5167]

This man is a real genius. He understands the questions and answers appropriately and properly.

[@Finne57]

OMG I wish I'd known Thomas Szasz. "You have to know history to appreciate the absurdity of the medical model".

[@stevekaylor5606]

Disease-like Labeling is the 1st step for crafting the medical model - then it's onto neurotoxic drugs/ECT and corralling sad people as cash cows!

[@kenoath8262]

"Medicine has become an arm of the state".-Thomas Szasz.

[@robt8042]

Definitely evident in the last couple of years. Especially the coercion.

[@JoseSanchez-zo5tb]

It was evil what they did.

[@stevekaylor5606]

"Psychiatry is based on fraud and force!" - Thomas Szasz

[@buzzl1ghtyear400]

I used to wake up everyday feeling a bodily sensation that was indescribable which would cause me to just not get up. I would sleep until my mind/body wouldn’t let me sleep any longer forcing me out of bed. I would feel like life wasn’t worth living and would get angry and stressed out suicidal all day. I fixed it unintentionally after trying a fruit/vegetable smoothie that I enjoyed so I continued drinking one everyday until I noticed I wasnt waking up in despair and suffering. I finally understood that the shit food being peddled these days definitely is a huge culprit for “mental illness” which is actually illness by poisoning from all the chemicals in processed foods/sodas etc.

[@joshuahandfinger9154]

✊unhealthy eating causes inflammation, affecting our moods, how we feel etc

[@joshuahandfinger9154]

@@chrisalmas6401 mind- gut connection( gut microbiome to behavioral health)✊

[@Randall_beatley]

@@chrisalmas6401 i immediately thought of South Park when reading this

[@cravinbob]

I would hold off on celebrating your cure until you have studied what people eat around the world and how they feel. Possible you are just lazy, unmotivated and immature. Get out of bed already and do stuff you have to do.

[@rabbitcreative]

Next step is a whole-food-plant-only diet.

[@whiff1962]

Exactly. Psychiatry, as Dr. Szasz aptly pointed out, is a moral-legalistic enterprise. Its main function is that of relieving others of the suffering that the so-called mentally ill bring to bear. To conceive of human suffering as disease, in many respects, is of social and political necessity. If you have read enough of Thomas Szasz, you will understand the context of this latter statement.

[@stevekaylor5606]

Standard of Care psychiatry is an ethical-legalistic Industry - i.e. staying rulebound + lucrative with the Mental Health - pharmaceutical co-franchise! / Since demoralized people are difficult to handle - they should join the aesthetic Talent Training classes of Howard Glasser, Madan Katara and Peter Breggin!

[@atwaterpub]

7:40 "Historically, Psychiatric diagnosis were made against people's will."

[@stevekaylor5606]

Pessimistic, Freudian disease-like Labeling - then neurotoxic drugs, etc.!

[@planetagonzo]

Psychiatrist are scammers. I'm happy I left those corrupt individuals behind.

[@mysoulsintent3577]

I have seen Dr. Szasz as a brilliant healer since learning of him during my Graduate Studies in Counseling Psychology in the late 80's. What a great loss to humanity...he passed on at age 92 two months after this presentation!!!

[@RonaldVaughan]

+Barb Peterson ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. And who is going to follow in his footsteps?

[@madmike3200]

+Ronald Vaughan I'm want too.

[@Vurti0]

May he rest in peace.

[@t4nkman]

I agree. Thanks for helping me understand. I worked in mental health for 20 years & I am still unlearning a lot of programming.

[@themonrovian8441]

I view doctors as incredibly dangerous agents of the state. Anyone who isn’t completely terrified of them is a fool. When you walk into a doctor’s office and say something you might as well be walking into a police station to make a formal statement.

[@dohnjoe9211]

@Samina Dhillon Their username is "the Monrovian," so maybe they're from Liberia. I know that in the US, this is more or less true. A doctor can potentially use your words against you in order to hospitalize you against your will. Any ordinary citizen can potentially call police and do the same, allowing anyone to use forced hospitalization as a weapon.

[@DarkestWinterNight]

anybody who believes this bullshit is a retard

[@cyny6305]

This is absolutely true. Cops and drs. They both have the power to kill you or help you without any accountability. Drs are not typically even 'caring' people. Most are just grandiose car mechanics with a bullying streak/chip on their shoulders.

[@vanrutgar6536]

@Samina Dhillon you joking?

[@stevekaylor5606]

I tell my doctor - "I'd rather just stay with nutrition + physical fitness!"

[@YZFMANIAC08]

I've been diagnosed with GAS and other anxiety-related disorder, was put on effexor for 1,5year, only supressed my emotions and anxiety further without going to the source. Turned out I developed severe Adrenal fatigue due to a very stressfull job and extremely hard training regiment. All the doctors and psychologists adviced to do sports to 'clear' the mind while making my adrenal fatigue and anxiety way way worse. If you experience 'psychological' problems contact a endocrinologist instead of a doctor or psychologist, there is a 95% chance your hormone and thyroid function are out of wack. Depression and anxiety is a healthy reaction towards an unhealthy lifestyle work/relationship situation or behavior like excessive working, eating, drinking, drug use, mental abuse and so on...

[@SuperKoopaguy]

Bullshit! Western medicine is so hypocritical. They make up fake diseases like mental illness claiming that they are biologically objective when they are not. At the same time, tell people that real objective biological diseases like adrenal fatigue are not real. Despite the fact that adrenal fatigue exists in the body, it cannot be treated with drugs therefore it is treated with extreme skepticism.

[@foltyn_noah]

Not reading ur bullshit story sorry Depression and anxiety ain't real u fell for lies

[@ScottNormanRosenthal]

I used Alternative Medicine to deal with the horrible physiological symptoms of my imbalance. My "behavior" became more functional. Drugs make many people worse.

[@linhngo7398]

What does it mean to be "imbalanced"? Passionate, dedicated, enjoying their profession?

[@DouglasFelts]

Heres a little fact and something a pharmacist once taught me...65% of the "medicine" (notice the quotes here) in the world is not even a good fit for rats. Healthy people dont even take any of them. Unhealthy people take too much "medication" not cuz of age but because of lazy doctoring. Medication is typically a sign just like a pack of smokes is a sign. Well there are the transcripts shared. And yeah the intent is parabolic cuz there is no learning in arguing and people argue when they get offended or hurt. But read that once a day...and practice it...and it should help be your medicine through everything but life threatening. Thats what a good pharmacist shared with me once. Too much legal medication is like too much legal crack...both kill quickly. And if you are currently taking too mucj medication go see ur local pharmacist..see about getting that shiit reduced...h.e.b. In texas or walgreens or walmart.pharmacies can assist.

[@ScottNormanRosenthal]

@@DouglasFelts I learned that the hard way.

[@stevekaylor5606]

The Chemical Imbalance construct was contrived by Gregory Bateson, husband to Margaret Mead - as a credulous + lucrative marketing tool. Psychiatrist Jeffrey A. Schaler indicted this with: "Show me the Chemical Balance Tests!" @@linhngo7398

[@atwaterpub]

18:55 "In America, in...again forgive me for being very down to Earth, psychiatry and psychiatrists have often been called 'the sewers of society.' That expresses this idea: it deals with subjects and people that most doctors don't want to deal with.""

[@stevekaylor5606]

They also do not train cathexes!

[@LexRex11]

In order to properly understand the present moment we must understand history.

[@stevekaylor5606]

Starting with the Bethlehem mental hospital in London in 1242. By the 1300s, tourists paid to visit and then gawk at the chained patients {inmates}! This is the origin of the term - Bedlam!

[@ccc771]

1 of the most important videos i have ever seen on You Tube to do with Mental Health and look at the views... No wonder so many Mental Health Systems are a mess throughout the world today.

[@stevekaylor5606]

Thomas Szasz and Michael Landon believed in people and their potential!

[@John-rj3nv]

Society causes much suffering not "mental disorders". Society decides what is socially unacceptable. Pills are demanded for anxiety and socially awkward problems Wich society causes.

[@bobeden5027]

Oppression leads to depression, leads to suicide! THe pain of depression is a wound of the soul and has nothing to do with the mind.

[@biggibbs4678]

Yet Americans are the only ones who think they're depressed

[@bobeden5027]

@@biggibbs4678 Globally about 280 million people are dealing with depression.

[@MarcusAndersonsBlog]

A bit late to the lecture but glad to hear this brilliant man answer the compelling questions in a coherent and logical way. There is no longer any doubt in my mind that Szasz is absolutely correct. Like myself, his case is fundamentally the denial of consent, which has been an International Human Right since 2008, when the UN ratified your unqualified right to refuse medical treatment, including psychiatric treatment. Over to you. Assert your International Human Right to refuse psychiatric treatment!

[@stevekaylor5606]

Also, the Bill of Rights - which are inviolate!

[@RonaldVaughan]

Time to END LABELS AND STIGMAS. NO MORE PSYCHIATRY!!

[@RonaldVaughan]

+Inge Fossen NO! Scientology was the ONLY organization which would embrace Dr. Szasz' views. He was an Atheist...NOT a Scientologist (which is a church.) Though they probably gave him an "honorary" standing or something....CCHR"s work is basically Szasz.CCHR,though staffed by Scientologists,is NOT Scientology itself. People make this mistake all the time.....but SZASZ' work has stood the test of time and I'll bet that THE MYTH OF MENTAL ILLNESS is going to outlast Big Psychiatry! "We have an outbreak of Psychiatry....not an outbreak of violence!"-Szasz I'm sure that a majority of these school shootings,and stabbings,can be traced right back to psychiatric drugs... and naturally,Pharma gets greedy and profits from those tragedies. Getting rid of psychiatry,religion,and tobacco is the ONLY meaningrul way to clear the air and stop the disintegration of society. How this can be done I don't know. And remember-THERE IS NO TEST FOR SO-CALLED "MENTAL ILLNESS". We have a Col. Reese to blame for society's nightmare of psychiatry....I was witness to a lesser-known presentation of CCHR's history....Though he is just one of several.....

[@androvillans9694]

+Ronald Vaughan Fine, but if you want to attack psychiatry you need to find a better vehicle that the disgraced cult of Scientology to do it with. Nobody cares what Scientology, which controls CCHR, has to say.

[@androvillans9694]

If Scientology, the group that got rich on the slave labor of the Sea Org, REALLY believed that psychiatry was evil they would spend some of the ill-gotten gains on it. They could spend tens of millions against psychiatric every year without feeling a financial pinch. But the don't. That shows the real priority of Scientology: hoarding money.

[@Kirasupporter1]

+andro villans They don't fund the cchr? How much money does the CCHR get from scientology?

[@androvillans9694]

CCHR is proud to say they are funded by private donations although it is run by Sea Org members who work for a pittance. So they get nothing from Scientology. The cult likes to bark and snarl against the shrinks but it is all talk and bluster. They won't spend any money on the issue. They would sooner chew their arm off then part with a dollar.

[@Tekknorg]

People can suffer without any illness. Just by imagination. That is how our mind works.

[@mackenzie8042]

Where the mind goes the body must follow

[@Tekknorg]

In a metaphoric way

[@stevekaylor5606]

No reason to Medicate Normal!

[@Tekknorg]

@@stevekaylor5606 whats normal then

[@stevekaylor5606]

Normal is someone who functions very well, without getting demoralized or delinquent! @@Tekknorg

[@SwordofJin117]

RIP Thomas Szasz

[@ADAMSIXTIES]

One of the great minds of the past century. Hopefully society will listen and then completely change their approach.9:00 the point about other medical care not being coercive is incorrect though, which others here debate. People are often coerced to have treatments, operations, etc which often are worse than the disease. That why I believe in holistic all natural across the board.

[@stevekaylor5606]

I remember when millions of men were talked into having their prostate glands removed!

[@themostgraciousqueenmarger2015]

The best way to end suffering is to do nothing.

[@stevekaylor5606]

The best thing - is to join bongo drum classes, where everyone else starts clapping, stomping and laughing {PBS T.V., 2006}. Happiness + physiology are being triggered together, which the subconscious mind takes literally. Soon, people who were suffering - are developing a mental + emotional cathexis, which is what mental health is!

[@MarkBH70]

Where does "COERCIVE TREATMENT" fit in a "free society"?

[@Michael-cl9mb]

Within the postmodern society, everywhere, just redefine confinement as liberating people from self harm.

[@humanearthling4661]

Nowhere to a rational mind. Coercive treatment belongs in a fascist society.

[@jipsees1908]

Bc a 'free society' is an illusion

[@aydenr5467]

You give up certain freedom's to partake in a society. That is the nature of a social construct. So basically what psychiatry is, is the majority (or those in power) saying that the behaviour of a minority is unacceptable and therefore can be classified as an illness. Which allows whatever is left of their conscious to allow the forcible medication of the minority (with mostly sedatives). "We" (as a society) allow this. "We" as a society, agree to this occurring, because "we" wish to maintain our position within said society or culture. The potential loss of our agency, or choice or whatever freedoms we do have is too great a risk for most of us to act out against the powers that be.

[@reikocool1]

Coercive helplessness & Coercive codependency

[@wielowymiarowosc749]

Dziękujemy Profesorze za ważną wiedzę dla wszystkich ludzi.

[@extremelyhardcore6238]

Thomas was such a very great gift to mankind, God used him as a very encouraging and very confirming protector of human reasoning. The message via him saved my very life. true!

[@DarkestWinterNight]

you mean satan

[@mardishores4016]

Which god, yours?

[@stevekaylor5606]

Szasz worked to improve the general culture for the public weal!

[@Madanth0ny]

@@mardishores4016the one and only God

[@deannastar4514]

When enough people Believe in something because everyone is Believing it... It's a Cascade Effect that leads to an Illusion, Collectively; Collective Illusion (a book title too).

[@stevekaylor5606]

Witchcraft in 16th Century Europe!

[@themostgraciousqueenmarger2015]

If someone does not desire greatness they should not be villified....but the same goes for someone who desires greatness.... their is room for both types of people...but people who don't want greatness should not abuse people who do and vice versa.

[@stevekaylor5606]

Michael Landon believed in people; Standard of Care psychiatrists do not!

[@extremelyhardcore6238]

There is no doubt that Scientology is dubious from the very get go, but Thomas Szasz was not a follower nor believer in it's aim, -they funded some of his work only until they understood he couldn't be bought, then detached because he was correct even regarding themselves. He was a very lovely and brilliant neutral man who devoted his life to releasing others from mental prisons. awesome guy!

[@stevekaylor5606]

CCHR co-founder, L. Ron Hubbard said, "Man can train himself!" Marianne Williamson says to people: "Produce yourself!"

[@destroyerinazuma96]

I've heard of Szasz from Peterson. Really interesting ideas.

[@nicmart]

Szasz was stunningly brilliant and courageous. He wrote clearly for ordinary people. If you are new to his books, Insanity is the one that most thoroughly summarizes his views on mental health. Among my other favorites are The Meaning of Mind and Cruel Compassion. Not to be missed are his two books on drug use, Ceremonial Chemistry and Our Right to Drugs.

[@destroyerinazuma96]

@@nicmart thanks for the recommendations!

[@kathryndohring5481]

@@nicmart Thank you. I will check these out.

[@lauraeeee]

This is one of the best videos on KZbin, thanks!

[@SVladZ]

Men of principle are often misunderstood because they dare to question the wisdom of their fathers. They raise questions and expose the unexamined assumptions that fill the world. These men are few and far in between. Often their words fall to deaf ears since what they say most don't see. Instead the majority assumes because their knowledge has not predisposed them to what the man utters, they proceed to exonerate themselves of wrong and condem the purveyor of contrary opinion. It's like one cow realizes his in a farm. Armed with this knowledge the cow knows that what he knows is so wrong that he is incapable of disavowing himself from that knowledge for if he did, he'd be no different to evil he awoke to. The others must be informed of their plight. The cow attempts to expose the evil he uncovered by informing the others, only to be rebuffed by the mooers why he must disturb the herds way of life. The mooers don't realize that to see the farm is not just to leave it, but the revelation of evil demands action. What they chose determines everything.

[@tonyrandall3146]

Serge B good words

[@risingsun3089]

Beautifully said

[@jazzyk4046]

Most humans love easiness. Believing in having "mental illness" and thus doing nothing to have a more productive life is easy as compared to working through good diet, exercise and healthy thinking habits and then some more. That's just too much work. For the mooers, getting out of that farm is too much work. So they deny the Truth eventhough deep down they know he is right.

[@stevekaylor5606]

Exonerate via ethical, Standard of Care procedure - which is still being rubberstamped by legislatures and courts!

[@stevekaylor5606]

Some love their slavery - as cash cows!@@jazzyk4046

[@lordrobert12]

For those of you in the UK who don’t know Dr Szasz was a strong civil libertarian which sheds light on much of his thinking!! Libertarianism is a philosophy that has never been fully understood or taken seriously in your country especially since the UK is now a woke police state!! By contrast the US was founded partly on the ideas and philosophies of libertarianism and we needed a revolution in order to implement some of those ideas into our form of government. Therefore, most of us are by our nature perhaps more receptive to the philosophy of Szasz!! When you accept overwhelming government power then you you will also tend to accept things like medical tyranny and that is the biggest problem that the UK faces right now!!

[@stevekaylor5606]

With the MAID Act in Canada, anyone with a DSM label can {since 3/23} be given a lethal injection. This is a copy of the Tiergarten 4 Program from 1930s Germany!

[@playlistofsongs]

False. Libertarianism was originally a left-wing spectrum dealing with the importance of *fairness* in liberty (libertarian socialism, etc). In the 20th century, American real estate execs and lobbyists and their cronies decided to bastardize classical liberalism and turn it into something even nastier than classical liberalism that completely eliminated the concept of fairness as being essential in liberty, bizarrely stealing the word libertarian from leftists. It seems you know nothing about the history of libertarianism, or you may be very confused about the history of the word. Granted the history of terms like that is confusing. But sadly many American Boomers in the 70s, 80s, and 90s ate up a lot of propaganda from the US Libertarian Party, so they have no clue about the real history of libertarianism as a spectrum of *leftist* anti-state *socialist* anarchy ideas. A lot of naive Americans don't realize that many types of socialism, including libertarian socialism, are anti-statist.

[@MarkBH70]

I was basically taken in because I ignored our property manager; diagnosed, because I ignored the psychiatrist. She didn't even say who she was.

[@martinzacok4374]

:-O WTH!?? WTF?! :-O They are criminals!

[@stevekaylor5606]

Red Flagging - as a way to get someone!

[@stevekaylor5606]

Forcing people to take neurotoxic drugs/ ECT is 2nd Degree Assault!@@martinzacok4374

[@TheEternalOuroboros]

A fantastic upload thank you for posting this. I'm currently reading Szasz's 'The Myth of Mental Illness' - doing a page by page analysis. This really helps thanks.

[@whotelakecity2001]

Amazing! Simply amazing.

[@tonyrandall3146]

If you take a humanist or existential approach to mental health, you cannot reconcile psychiatry and psychology as science.. In my humble view as a first year psychology student. It is vital someone of Szasz's stature and position play the role of devil's advocate for what seems like a very dogmatic approach.

[@danielwilberforce7400]

@Random Name maths is qualitative if you care to look at it from a high enough perspective

[@ayandas874]

Random Name how can you leave a qualitative problem with quantitative people?

[@ayandas874]

Random Name it is not qualitative in nature, but we haven't figured out the brain to be able to make reliable judgements based on quantitative assessments. Like economics, this will never be an exact science, despite you asserting otherwise.

[@ayandas874]

Random Name no. Qualitatively evaluate the brain for symptoms. And find and apply qualitative and predictive solutions to the ailments of that brain. Or at least try to combine quantitative and qualitative diagnosis to try to come up with the most accurate assessment. For example, lack of doing so causes hyperactive children to be diagnosed and treated for attention deficiency disorder, and this "treatment" has the side effect of destroying the chance of functioning in a healthy manner since we either don't have an understanding of how the brain works, or we do have an understanding and choose to ignore the complexities of such data because we, not as a patient or doctor but as a society, seek immediate short term solutions to control present problems. I think, however, think that as the medical community slowly advances, it will be normal to have personalised treatments instead of broad spectrum solutions, specially in complex diseases like cancer or mental deficiency, including the widespread utilisation of combination therapy.

[@ayandas874]

Random Name damn it. I failed to read sarcasm.

[@atwaterpub]

19:35 "...and so, we are living in an era of double talk and double think."

[@reikocool1]

1984 & Minority Report. The era of thought crime. Pre crime profiling.

[@stevekaylor5606]

Orwellian and feudal!@@reikocool1

[@izanerat3711]

thank you for this information !

[@palianshow]

such a wise man. ( makes one aware how we are missing on the wisdom of the older generation). i feel like half of the time he had to defend his views. so many well educated people, yet so closed minded.

[@annunakki3735]

Its all about money and power! That's what it comes down too. Ohh sorry and control.

[@mardishores4016]

Same as religion, including the blood cult of christianity!

[@stevekaylor5606]

The Mental Health - pharmaceutical co-franchise!

[@smurfmama2020]

I just think without a strong community, healing and helping what’s called mental illness is rather challenging. In a traditional indigenous culture ( one that doesn’t exist anymore most likely) perhaps there would be a communal support that could help the person beyond anything we are capable of in modern society. Spiritual,emotional support would be available in a way we don’t have available to us. Or maybe I’m wrong. I also have to add that coercive treatment in pediatric psychiatry is absolutely horrible in the US. Many times I had refused or requested different alternative treatments for my daughter and CPS was called on me, giving me no choice but to hospitalize her. Absolutely beyond traumatizing , and even worse than what she had at the time, the trauma that left us with.

[@robt8042]

Accurate.

[@brie1987]

Absolutely correct. There is an issue with our society now and mebtal hralth community prevention and live person support is lacking. It os causing mental illnezz

[@stevekaylor5606]

Singing in a Glee Club, making friends and developing a mental + emotional cathexis!

[@stevekaylor5606]

Plenty of support for making sad people into cash cows. The Mental Health Committees of legislatures must institute new Guidelines for Mental Health institutions!@@brie1987

[@smurfmama2020]

@@stevekaylor5606 😂😂 singing in a glee club once a week isn’t community..

[@lordrobert12]

Free Albert Haynes! He has been locked up in one of those psychiatric hell holes almost all his life for absolutely no reason at all!! Abolish the mental health act!!

[@ericlarue8010]

Thank you Thomas

[@LOVE-JC777]

In the old age mental illness was considered demonic strongholds. Matthew 17:14 When they came to the crowd, a man approached Jesus and knelt before him. 15 “Lord, have mercy on my son,” he said. “He has seizures and is suffering greatly. He often falls into the fire or into the water. 16 I brought him to your disciples, but they could not heal him.” 17 “You unbelieving and perverse generation,” Jesus replied, “how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring the boy here to me.” 18 Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed at that moment.

[@karlpopper6536]

Exterioris-vallem funny how, every day it passes, it seems to me this definition can be applied to modern age. At least in the past there was spirituality and they had not the brain fried by positivism

[@burpenta1]

Excellent

[@pasqualified]

This man is a real hero.

[@Bluefairy513]

However - he does make some points. Psychiatry is so often misused and doesn't really seem to have very many answers - if any. Protecting the rights of those who are labeled mentally ill is important but protecting the rights of those whose lives are adversely affected by them is also important.

[@alexammaulli1910]

+Susan Olsen You are referring to other human beings in your comment aren't you?

[@yinyangg4256]

+Susan Olsen If you believe protecting the rights of those who are labeled 'mentally ill' is important, and that the rights of people whose lives are adversely affect by those labeled 'mentally ill' are important too, then simply stop labeling people mentally ill, and protect the rights of ALL persons, on an equal basis, and have the due process of the criminal justice system equally applied to anybody who breaks the law.

[@billybandyk0720]

@@yinyangg4256 THANKS, MY FRIEND!!!!!! SPOT-ON RE: The "M.I." terms (i.e.; "mentally ill" & "mental illness(es)"). They r DEMEANING, JUDGMENTAL, SHAMEFUL, & STIGMATIZING in the XACT SAME MANNER as the "M.R." terms (i.e.: "mentally retarded" & "mental retardation") r. When "M.R." was reclassified as "D.D." (i.e.: "developmentally disabiled" & "developmental disability/disabilities"), the STIGMA from those particular people virtually disappeared. Likewise can b af4ded 2 those classified as "M.I.,"; even more appalling is that those employed w/in the Mental Health System/Industry consider the "M.R." terms 2 b OFFENSIVE, DEMEANING, SHAMEFU, & STIGMATIZING but not the "M.I." terms. That hypocritical stance only perpetu8s shame & stigma. When it comes 2 mental health issues, society "double talks" on them. 4 example; as u pointed out 2 Ms. Olsen. People wanna "elimin8 the stigma of M.I." yet they maintain a hypocritical stance by using the "M.I." terms. That's equivalent 2 society vowing 2 elimin8 racism but still use racial slurs (e.g.: the "N" word that rhymes w/"bigger" & "trigger"). If u have seen some of my other comments RE: the "M.I." terms, we r in COMPLETE AGREEMENT!!!!! I consider u as a friend (despite having nvr met in person). I look 4ward 2 ur reply. Best 2 ya.

[@stevekaylor5606]

Cathexis Training by Mental Health professionals!

[@theeffectofgammarays]

Oh but I LOVE this man, yes I do.

[@conspirativeparty6492]

People diagnosed with mental illness are most often Targeted Individuals - see my videos about it...

[@stevekaylor5606]

Red Flagged by those with animus!

[@badairdaynewyork5859]

I don't always agree with Szasz. However, it is genius when, in passing, he mentions how the U.S. is able to justify killing people in Iraq because of our surety that there is an "authority" with the right to make a judgement on other people, and the right then to interfere in other people's lives (and kill people in the case of Iraq). He traces the root of this arrogance to our view of psychiatry at a cultural level -- and says "look how far this can be taken." He is right. He points out how this is a similar belief to that of the coercive use of religion in the past. Szasz might make some people uncomfortable. I think especially people in two groups. The first is those occupying positions of authority in the psychiatric field and academic psychiatry. The second is individuals who have suffered a lot and become terrified by their own experiences, so that a stabilizing refuge for them is to conform to social norms. There is nothing wrong with social norms, but Szasz in a few words, exposes the entire hypocrisy of ours. How sane is a society that allows itself to support wars that go on for decades? What kind of social norm is that? And yet it has been normalized. What Szasz is speaking about is very wise and correct. I'm sure people from many Indigenous and First Nation groups would agree with him.

[@nicmart]

Szasz makes most uncomfortable those who want disease to explain the odd or bad behaviors of loved ones, especially parents of their children. Psychiatry allows parents (spouses, etc) to escape responsibility.

[@reikocool1]

@@nicmart A parenting opt out. Because they usually are too short sighted for their own good.

[@stevekaylor5606]

Orwellian wars + cultural dysphoria are both feudal!

[@DuckmanYaHeard]

Now that they’re hurting innocent people maybe we should lock them up.

[@ericlarue8010]

Once there is cohesion, the problem of responsibility suffers.

[@JohnnyX1239]

What I mean is that psychosis and schizophrenia could be caused by infections, like from a tick bite. You can't imagine how many people who have once been bitten by a tick and got infected end up in psychiatric hospital. This happened to me too, I've been in a mental ward for 3 years and eventually I got to a specialist who found out it's caused by the tick-borne infection.

[@12presspart]

yes mental illness is increasingly to be atributed to physical causes as more is being come more common for example thyroid problems are responseble for over 30% of deppresive disorders all the antideppresents in the world will not treat this your brain is just an organ all the way more complex than your heart etc

[@jazzyk4046]

This is so sad. God bless you

[@ScottNormanRosenthal]

In reality, they aren't really "caused", because they don't really exist. They are relative calls.

[@melindadawn5]

Schizophrenia is RF. It's not the person just hearing things that aren't there. It's RF, with ai, utilizing the fray effect. The voices can be recorded. The person labeled as schizophrenic, has been conditioned to hear a frequency range that is outside the normal human hearing range, which is why others can't hear it. But if the voices can be recorded, the audio tweaked to bring it back into normal hearing levels, and played back, anyone can then hear those voices... The voices ride on sound so, traffic noises, a fan, running water, heartbeat, breathing, etc, will carry these voices and amplifying the voices. Schizophrenia is a cover to explain away what's really being done to these individuals...

[@citrosoda5370]

@@melindadawn5 That seems like a very bold claim. Can you link me to some sources supporting this?

[@brianhopson2072]

We need someone like him to keep psychology in line again.

[@Reree-gz5bg]

I find labels for me hinder me from bettering myself. For ex; if I have an eating disorder, I’m putting all this work for “recovery”. But then why put all this work if I won’t ever get better? I believe not having to label myself & being in denial are two different things. I would love to hear what people think

[@billybandyk0720]

Being diagnosed as "Bipolar Disorder" doesn't hinder me. Being classified as "mentally ill" (which's synonymous w/ Shame & Stigma) does.

[@stevekaylor5606]

Take up new assumptions, and go with Cathexis Training!

[@paulogutenberg5050]

genius

[@et4213]

Treat humans as humans, people, persons, not objects, which often medicine also gets wrong; the expert telling the patient without listening too the patient. Seems Rogers and Szasz would’ve had much to agree on. It strikes me though that one of the most unfortunate presentations of mental illness or whatever you might call are those types when the person is incapable of taking care of self and others and may also be aggressive toward self or others, these situations represent the very difficult task of delivering services that are unwanted, and most often in not always traumatic, but I can’t see how a responsible and truly caring society can not act even against the person that is out of touch with reality, it’s not a pleasant business, very heartbreaking and best conducted by people who would not want to do so unless they absolutely had to

[@jw7196]

_For this reason, I repudiate the tacit assumption inherent in designating mental patients as deviants: that, because such persons differ, or are alleged to differ, from the majority, they are ipso facto sick, bad, stupid, or wrong, whereas the majority are healthy, good, wise, or right._ - Thomas Szasz _A personal confession: When I was young and had more faith in the goodness of man and the powers of scientific psychology, I shared my good friend Bruce Waller's enthusiasm for the therapeutic state - as I earlier shared Plato's hope for a society ruled for the benefit of the common people by philosopher kings. Now, in the perversity and powerlessness of my advanced age, I do not want to be ruled for my own good by the arbitrary power of any group of self-appointed or democratically elected "experts."_ - Max Hocutt

[@jewishgirl1581]

These people need to focus on themselves wow They're harming people more than helping them. Thomas Szasz is correct

[@Elias-iq2mn]

watch "WHAT THE HEALTH"

[@maxwigant2011]

Awesome

[@katieb2098]

first do no harm that was a great thing to say my country has a huge culture of abuse in the psychiatric system

[@stevekaylor5606]

Fraud, force and marketing!

[@RonaldVaughan]

SZASZ was NOT a Scientologist. He was an ATHEIST. The relationship with CCHR was forced. But their beliefs are mainly his.

[@RonaldVaughan]

@Hal Stenstrom Oops!! My bad. Not "forced"....should have used another word. But SZASZ simply couldn't find another organization....and everybody knows the infamous reputation that L. Ron Hubbard later received......

[@RonaldVaughan]

@Hal Stenstrom Sorry,I was not sure exactly HOW he did find the organization. Thanks for clarification.

[@Shabba870]

Very interesting

[@dianecleary1054]

I have bipolar 2 and take Lithium 800g. I no longer suffer from deep depression but just the occasional blip.

[@jah8875]

The self-proclaimed open-minded people on this thread don't like information that threatens their enlightened stance 😊

[@jah8875]

I'm on lithium and sodium valproate... been on it for 20 years... saved my life.

[@foltyn_noah]

​@jah8875 ok well it probably makes people worse more then good, thanks for explaining how you had the placeebo effect happen to you both 😂

[@jah8875]

@@foltyn_noah Done a lot of research on the topic?

[@biscuffer2518]

The concept of an ill mind definitely exists. I would 100% agree Compassion > Medication But Trauma can definitely cause long lasting damage that's incurable I don't think he disagrees with this but I'm still confused with the concept of schizophrenia and hallucinations You cant fake see hallucinations even thou you know they are not real and do cause disturbances to life These symptoms suck man..i just want answers not to hear its a myth

[@Desiparth]

But sometimes you have to numb it so you cant take time to help yourself. How can u help yourself if all this happening to u. You need some control just to get started. I definately dont think people should rely on meds but its def a good helping tool to get a person through it.

[@justmadeit2]

Depression when it gets to a certain level is horrific

[@oldschoolwaverider]

That sign language interpreter must be extremely intelligent.

[@stevekaylor5606]

Mental health is the development of a mental + emotional dedication - a cathexis!

[@TelecasterLPGTop]

I've finally understood where this man is coming from and agree with him about the powers that psychiatry shouldn't have BUT he doesn't provide an alternative. I also find his telling people to read his book as an answer in a debate to be totally unacceptable. Not everyone has or may want to read his book, he's in a friggin' debate for fuck's sake so he should be able to relate his views verbally not just criticise people for not reading his book.

[@RonaldVaughan]

Unfortunately,there is NOT much of an alternative. Szasz (RIP) wrote books on the subject and there is the CCHR. Psychiatry is a fraud except for those "alternative" psychologist groups--Szasz himself was last at one.

[@yinyangg4256]

+Felix Burke The criminal justice system with its wonderful due process and careful checks and balances is the alternative to forced psychiatry for people that break the law is an alternative he offers, and for people who want assistance with their life problems he supports voluntary psychiatry or voluntary counseling etc. His lifetime body of work on a complex topic, are an amazing gift to humanity, and his suggesting people read one of the over 30 books it took to cover this complex topic is not unreasonable.

[@RonaldVaughan]

The only "alternative" is groups like ISEPP....

[@RonaldVaughan]

+Felix Burke But his reply's in the book.....Also Szasz is gone.....but his work lives on. And just because he didn't provide an "alternative" does NOT justify all that brainwashing.....SZASZ was one-of-a-kind....

[@atwaterpub]

The alternative, is freedom and tolerance.

[@t4nkman]

You are right.

[@atwaterpub]

11:44 "Compulsion is a bad thing."

[@atwaterpub]

why not try empathetic reasoning and understanding love to share insights and ideas instead of using "force" or "compulsion?"

[@risingsun3089]

@@atwaterpub I agree. Through compassion and speech, both doctor and patient would further rapport.

[@424io]

Go ahead and try it , I suggest to log everything in your attempt, treat as a science experiment so that your information may be shared around the world

[@lindaraereneau484]

A better question is: what is really happening in a person who has what is referred to as "mental illness"?

[@birkrollo5167]

The funniest bit is that the Google Ad for this was a psychological business shit

[@stevekaylor5606]

The sincerity of Mental Health market people can be tricky!

[@nicholasroberts7891]

Anytime someone repeats "not if you read my books" as an answer. Its coercion at its best and highest level

[@stevekaylor5606]

I ask people to take up new and better assumptions!

[@alvarocastroregueiro]

its like someone talking to 5 year old children. They just want someone not them to take decisions for them. Like the second man, the psychiatrist that thought that force was used to make people have their insuline. and the third lady, who taught that we should not let people kill themselves if they want to.

[@mayo0006]

Thomas Szasz ended his own life a few months after this was uploaded, tragic irony

[@ericlarue8010]

No, no, no. You dont treat physical illness against ones will or you are guilty of assualt. ( unless you are totalitarian, and you don't love personal freedom and responsibility). It's your life.

[@stevekaylor5606]

Psychiatric labeling, drugging and ECT - is 2nd Degree Assault - or more, with Tardive Dyskinesia!

[@Laura-sc8ft]

My son had bartonella in his brain took 3 years to find a specialist who found it. Thank God we got him help in time before he took his life. My understanding is other toxins and disease can cause similar reactions. Dr. Lonnie Herman in Miami. He is on here. Tell him I sent you.😊

[@georgewain1138]

I am not objecting, only trying to understand better. If “mental illnesses “ are not illnesses then what are they and how would you ascribe the unusually thought and feelings a sufferer has?

[@DrCash7]

They are emotions, feelings, reactions to situations/trauma. I don't recall all the details so I'll do my best to paraphrase, but there is a video where a man in a village had what would be considered depression. Afterall, the man was a farmer and while working he stepped on an old landmine and lost his leg. Unable to work, he was depressed. The villagers did give him their version of an anti-depressant; they bought him an ox (or some kind of work animal) to help. Had the man lost his leg and become elated would have been more of a "sickness."

[@jazzyk4046]

@@DrCash7 Yep I totally agree and this is a pure common sense that any sensible person can see and understand. Like all modern day "experts", psychiatrists has successfully twisted something so simple as "normal emotional reaction of a reasonable man" aka "the reasonable man test" into something so hyperbolic and jargonic that the truth aka common sense is thwarted because they have spoken in a very complicated manner where somehow "complicated" language is deemed as Truth and Intelligent. They would state the obvious such as how a sad/depressed person will have heart palpitations, shortness of breath etc (duh!) and then slap some technical terms to it and voila! It's an illness of which there is no cure except it will get worse and that the only way you can continue "living" is through drugs and more drugs and electric volts and etc. They will never acknowledge the reasons behind the person's sadness and anxiety such as loss of love one, being bullied, loss of job etc etc as the direct correlation to the sadness and anxiety. God bless.

[@DrCash7]

@@jazzyk4046 weaponized. It was weaponized by the state.

[@goaheadblockme]

I got locked up for 2 months, had to pay $1,000 to get out, have to come up with another $1,000 to try to seal my record which will take over a year, I had to do 40 hours community service, and random drug test, I never got to defend myself in court, charges were dropped, all because a 5 year old said I pushed someone. Free society?

[@vfddcv7445]

goaheadblockme OMG

[@dublinfitzpatrick7838]

Psychiatry is truly disgusting...as proven with this video, disgusting.

[@vanrutgar6536]

It's a damning institution . It labels people on narrow descriptors It ignores the positive in an individual The person becomes an illness with a human attached . Mental illness is just emotional fixation It's worry amplified .

[@dublinfitzpatrick7838]

@@vanrutgar6536 I should say not all psychiatrists act in this manner. But it ( psychiatry) seems to me that it has become more about money, pushing psychiatric medications ( they usually push dangerous medications & hurt or kill people) They have forgotten their Hippocratic oath. That oath may as well be gotten rid of for any medical doctor. None of them follow it. There is no accountability anymore, imo.

[@justmadeit2]

Which Thomas szasz books are best for the everyday person to read ?

[@TSCooner]

Hi, one book I've found really helpful is 'The Myth of Mental Illness' by Szasz himself. There is a link below to the book. I think you will find it useful. amzn.to/3RCi16X

[@Fred-hx7uc]

If someone could answer from Szasz points of view/arguments that would be amazing: The reason, correct me if I'm wrong, that mentally ill patients get detained under the MHA/MH laws and dont have a choice on the matter, is because they dont have the capacity or logical/rational thinking to agree or disagree to treatment. Unlike general/physical medicine, people who refuse medical treatment have the capacity and sanity to say they dont want it for whatever reason... yet mental health patients cannot think logically or know whats best of them so cannot disagree? So, does Szasz think that mental health patients always do have capacity to agree/refuse? or does he think that if they do or dont, it doesnt matter, its still their choice even if they dont know whats best for them? I've watched several interviews and videos like this one, and no one has asked Szasz this question, what i'm surprised at, and its been bugging me for ages. Thanks

[@yinyangg4256]

+Jack Jackson 'The reason, correct me if I'm wrong, that mentally ill patients get detained under the MHA/MH laws and dont have a choice on the matter, is because they dont have the capacity or logical/rational thinking to agree or disagree to treatment. ' You are wrong, people say no all the time, they disagree and make their disagreement clear to their attackers in plain English, they are branded by powerful others as no having 'capacity' to have their clear 'no' and their clear lack of consent listened to. Szaszian thought doesn't support do-gooders who feel they have the right to initiate violence against people in the name of deciding what's 'best for them'. Why should anybody have to give a reason? They say no. They own their body, their attackers aren't entitled to a reason. If you rape a woman she doesn't have to give a reason why she doesn't want to have sex with you, she just has to say no. You commit a gravely offensive wrong when you brand people 'patients' who have never agreed to any doctor/patient relationship. Your assertions that people 'cannot' think logically, which is just your version of branding their thinking illogical, you cannot prove they 'cannot' do anything, you just want to deal with them as if they were unconscious people, and ignore their expressed wishes, in favor of the magic word 'incapacity' which is just a label slapped on people to dehumanize them and ignore their expressed wishes. If someone says no, to you or anybody else who plans to rape their brains with forced drugging, no means no, and to proceed to rape their brain with forced drugging, is a grave human rights atrocity for which everybody who has every participated in it, should feel deeply ashamed, and in fact in a just world, they'd be prosecuted for human rights abuses. Your belief that drugging somebody's brain that no psychiatrist in the world performs any objective test on constitutes a 'treatment', is a religious belief, and the act of calling the violence initiated against these people 'treatment' is to force your worldview and your beliefs about this activity on them. You talk a lot about people thinking logically, I don't think anybody who believes in psychiatry's pathetic quackery is thinking logically, but that doesn't give me the right to force my beliefs on you, and you don't have the right to force your beliefs on me or anybody else or force this belief in psychiatry on others using government. If you claim to be bugged for ages about a question, and not understand Szasz, it's called he wrote over 30 books, you might try reading one, try Insanity: the idea and its consequences for a start. Your belief in the magic power of labeling someone 'incapable' of refusing consent when they are awake, conscious, and saying 'no' and begging their attackers to stop, is one of the most dangerous beliefs in the world.

[@samwallaceart288]

My only familiarity with him is from the book “The Manufacture of Madness (Comparative Study of The Inquisition and the Mental Health Movement)”, where he goes into how power structures, religious or scientific, have historically abused the ambiguity of mental health and of forces of nature to push their political agendae and ostracize or detain their detractors. My guess, based on his arguments therein, is that Szasz would vaguely allude to the possibility of a better alternative, but revert to the assessment that therapeutic authority over a patient is always a slippery slope that should be avoided wherever possible. Perhaps he’d concede that an individual doctor could be allowed that sort of authority if trusted by the patients guardians, but that such authority should not be automatically presumed by the larger system; though I can’t quote him on that.

[@samwallaceart288]

Yin Yangg - That’s quite a response. Szasz has a lot of work to pick from, not all of which is accessible to laymen; this commenter kindly asked for a pointer as to where to get started, not being familiar. Book recommendations and summaries would be nice. There’s absolutely no need for you to personally insult the commenter’s intelligence or their intellectual freedom, just answer the question or move on. Chill.

[@FSUGuy2012]

V Yes. Yes. Yes.

[@helenal3956]

Pray.

[@stevekaylor5606]

There is power in prayer and meditation!

[@birkrollo5167]

The doctor's job is to help the physiology of a person. But without coercion (with the full informed consent of the patient) and without a business or sociopolitical model in mind (the mind of the doctor).

[@stevekaylor5606]

The ACA builds its business model by having doctors classify ailments via 110,000 statistical categories, and then telling the doctor that he must call an accountant to ask for permission to treat. Premiums run to $400/month; Deductibles to 13k. Very obstructionist!

[@samrowbotham8914]

Does anyone remember the name of the documentary that Dr Thomas Szasz took part in which they seem to have banned which exposed psychiatry and which had No Cure in the title?

[@cocokombucha2408]

no telll me more

[@samrowbotham8914]

@@cocokombucha2408 I remember it the title of the doc was Run from the Cure in which prominent psychiatrist like the late Thomas Szasz took part exposing psychiatry for what it really is pseudoscience. This is another control mechanism used by the elites if you look at an old list which defined the reasons for sectioning people under mental health you can see that it was list constructed by people working as government mandarins and not doctors. In that way, they could keep a lid on the truth and stop it from coming out. No one takes any notice of madmen do they. www.snopes.com/fact-check/reasons-admission-insane-asylum-1800s/

[@cocokombucha2408]

@@samrowbotham8914 Thanks for the information! I just started reading Laing and OMG it makes so much more sense to me right now like how diagnosis and treatment was used to invalidate personal experience and abused by people who are not empathizing with the disturbed person. That link is fire by the way

[@samrowbotham8914]

@@cocokombucha2408 People from other cultures are appalled at the way in the Occident we deal with mental illness: www.voicesireland.com/the-shamanic-view-of-mental-illness/

[@rabbitcreative]

8:44 I call that guy with the mic an agent. The elder-speaker is talking about not being able to force someone treatment for diabetes, and the mic holder says you CAN force treatment, because "common law or under Mental Health Act". WOW. That quote isn't force-as-such, that's a high-level-verbal-abstraction used as (weak) justification for the use of force. Those words are not the force itself.

[@HiClassHarlow]

I would love closed caption on this video, i am having a hard time hearing him.

[@erichartung4902]

A huge myth is that Americans are free to be poor they are not. Vagrancy is defined in north Carolina as not having one dollar on your possession. It makes not difference what real money is it only matters that you do something to obtain fake money, therefore one must excuse social credit or be labelled a bum.

[@rabbitcreative]

> you are not willing to commit yourself to whether or not there was coercion used. What a gangster. People wanna cry "mental health act". When in reality men are strong-arming someone against their will.

[@JohnDoe-tt6en]

I would love to read the Myth of Mental Illness and I have a lot of admiration for Mr. Szasz but I don't think these were the best arguments he's made. I agree with the pro-mental illness speaker who pointed out the difference between justifying coercive treatment and the legitimacy of the concept of mental illness (he said ‘useful’ and if I let myself read into that I have to wonder how many people might not actually believe the concept of mental illness is objectively and factually correct but is in some sense a ‘useful’ concept relative to certain normative goals, and I mean completely benign, honorable goals). Throughout the video his arguments seem to be tied to libertarian ideology and while most of the people who oppose psychiatry do so because they consider it to be harmful in some way, so it’s useful to explain why or how, that’s besides why mental illnesses don’t actually exist (or maybe I’m being completely unfair and the video shouldn’t actually be titled ‘do mental illnesses exist?’). A mental illness, by definition, is something that would have to be experienced, if we’re on the same page about what an ‘illness’ is (and semantics aside our subjective experience of mental states don’t prevent the brain as a physical system from functioning, this is true regardless of where you stand on the mind-body issue, so a mental state or a disposition toward a mental state can’t be analogous to cancer, diabetes or heart disease. A mental illness is a mental illness because we negatively value the state or disposition itself, not because of it’s effect on inter-subjectively observable biological system functioning) so I would ask that speaker why a diagnosis was needed and what it would have meant to him if he didn’t meet the observable behavioural criteria for diagnosis of the psychiatrist he consulted. The Nation of Islam helped Malcolm X turn his life away from crime and drugs, that doesn’t legitimize their teachings. Many people have been helped by religious communities, political groups or ideas we assume are unethical, irrational or untrue. My problem with the concept is that it devalues happiness-suffering by perpetuating the attitude that it needs to be phrased as a health problem in order to be taken seriously (in addition to stigmatizing behaviour, attitudes, beliefs, preferences and tendencies that don’t cause emotional distress or imply not valuing the happiness of other people and challenging people’s authority on their own direct lived experience, I don’t mean their interpretation of it or their predictions about the future). Contrary to popular belief, harm is a moral concept - it’s a value judgment. Doctors have no authority on what is harmful because this is a philosophical question. The concept of mental health doesn’t justify coercive paternalism and coercive paternalism can be justified even from a perspective that rejects the concept of mental health. There are some scenarios when I think coercive paternalism could be a necessary evil (an ‘evil’ if it causes any degree of emotional distress) but I would take whatever humiliation, frustration or distress it causes seriously and weigh that against the happiness or suffering I expect it to increase or decrease. People seem to think that the obvious connection between mind and body legitimizes the idea of mental illness. Mental states (as well as observable behaviour which is a different thing) can be symptoms of inter-subjectively observable brain conditions and the fight or flight hormones associated with stress (the body releases cortisol, for example, in response to stress, or more accurately the neurological or physiological correspondents of stress. ‘Stress’ is not cortisol) have a measurable effect on the observable brain / body. This doesn’t legitimize the idea that our subjective experience of mental states can be ill in a way that’s analogous to inter-subjectively observable biological dysfunction or that claims about physical brain conditions don’t have to be supported by actual physical evidence. Theories about observable natural phenomenon are falsified when they don’t help us to predict the behavior of observable natural phenomenon, theories about the mind can only be falsified via introspection (and personal experience can’t be universalized if we can imagine a scenario where X and Y exist separately or together). Nothing about observable behavior in isolation tells us about other people’s internal minds, it can only be evidence for certain mental states in the context of projection. I agree that the approach to individual suffering would have to be varied. A medical approach isn’t necessarily the solution. For example, if a kid is being physically bullied everyday by older boys it’s only the doctor’s job to fix his injuries, it’s the job of ‘society’ in general to create an anti-violence culture where that kind of physical bullying isn’t permitted. Every approach can’t be medical or even a matter of personal responsibility, people factually suffer in ways that either can only or at least partially be addressed by fixing environmental or external sources of pain.

[@TheHeidille]

it is not that psychiatric "illness" does not exist, but we seem to have forgotten that psychiatry derives from psychology, and therefore therapy is necessary cause psychological problems are not really an illness, but medication is a way to stay alive and to get through the days, until you have dealt with the psychological problems. I did and I took a pill for many years, that I should have quit much earlier, cause I felt much better, started sleeping through the night, not waking up every second hour, getting up smoking or eating. Things are much better cause I learned how to control my thinking. Ronald D. Laing was a psychotherapist and a psychiatrist, and they knew better then, cause now patients like the patient who does not think psychiatric diagnosis exist do not know anything about those things, and you ought to enlighten them.

[@nibussss]

I recommended turmeric boiled with pepper...good for overall.. but not maybe in morning...bestbshit I had.

[@t4nkman]

What if that person was explicitly threatening to hurt you? Do you only draw the line when they have acted on their feelings?

[@blakefreeman1077]

Define "you". In the states, we have something called an order of restraint, (or "restraining order"/"order of protection"). By "you", I assume you are referring to yourself as an individual. In that case, if a person feels they are physically at risk due to implicit or explicit threats made directly to them by another person, I believe they may have grounds to obtain such a restraining order from their municipality. There are laws against making criminalistic or terroristic threats to people. What constitutes a threat might get become unclear in situations like these, (certainly people can and DO often say things that they don't really mean within the context of a heated argument, or when venting frustrations to a 3rd party). However, directly threatening harm to someone is probably illegal in most states. Such an order of protection could (potentially) be a remedy if someone literally feels that they have been threatened, or are under threat. If granted, such an order could be enforced by the police. Otherwise, I personally don't believe that the psychiatric community at large should have the ability to intervene in a situation like this, until there is proof of actual, (not "potential"), damage or harm. When coercive psychiatric measures are used against someone to "prevent harm", (to one's self or to others), this can quickly lead to a form of pre-crime prediction. If such a thing is implemented by psychiatry, many believe that it will inevitably be co-opted by the state, (an entity that already works closely enough with the psychiatric community for the 2 to be effectively considered two heads on the same hydra), and the ensuing corruption, abuse, harm, and overall damage to the "patient's" mental and physical health can be massive, and irreversible. It seems much too slippery of a slope to allow psychiatry to define, (or redefine), "harm" as "any thoughts or speech that makes other people feel uncomfortable". Direct threats to people should never be tolerated in the context of any relationship, but we also can't have everyone who feels threatened calling up the psychiatrist and having someone involuntarily committed. This would be a boon to the psychiatric industry, though, and what is a boon for them is likewise a boon for the pharmaceutical industry. 😒 Which is another reason it should be avoided. It is important to draw the distinction between individual psychiatrists and the industry of psychiatric hospitals as a whole, (which is, indeed, a behemoth). IBIS projections have it at something like 30 billion dollars a year in North America alone, (with that number growing every year; bolstered by ever-growing federal and state-level funding/involvement). This isn't counting how much money the drug companies are raking in on SSRI drugs, and MAOI's, tricyclic antidepressants and benzodiazepines. To gird the truth in semantics, ("help" becomes "commit"), or to otherwise skirt the issue that this industry exists primarily to make money, is dishonest. Psychiatric hospitals employ hundreds of thousands of people in this country, (not counting the lobbyists, lawyers, and media spin doctors). Many are helped. Some are "helped" (committed). It's a tank. As such, it doesn't necessarily care who gets run over, mashed to a pulp under the treads, and spread over the roadway of progress.

[@t4nkman]

@@blakefreeman1077 Thanks for your thorough answer & I have to say that I completely agree with you. I am an ex psychiatric nurse who is against coercive psychiatric intervention. And as we see now, what is used yesterday against people with mental problems, is used today against the rest of society with the coercion being applied to those who refuse to be injected with mRNA experimental gene therapies.

[@enlightenedturtle9507]

No. Threats of violence are usually dealt with through criminal law as well.

[@kareendeveraux1847]

Criminal, not sick. Stop mixing up criminals with mentally or emotionally distressed people, thanks.