Thomas Zane, Alan Wake, and the Grand Spiral | Alan Wake 2 Lore Theory

[@Kaden10]

I did not recognize Ilkka Villi at all when he played Tom, it's amazing how much of a difference shaving the beard off makes.

[@solidspooks1290]

DLC has brought a lot of new insight into this, so I've got a half-baked take spat out from my morning brain that might make a little bit of sense. The Dark Place being the World Tree Yggdrasil as we saw in DLC 3 clears up so many confusing elements. My best guess is that our Tom is dead and now the bright presence, but Tom inside the dark place is from another universe. Maybe the reason that the Old Gods of Asgard don't see Alan as Alan is because they come from a universe where Alan didn't exist, just Zane. That could even be why that Zane was forced to flee through the Dark Place to reach our world. A universe where the Old Gods and Zane are the only people means that both are easily used, and there's no Alan there to stop Barbara Jagger from beginning the Nightless Night. That might even be where Zane gets the idea from, ironically using his wife's twisted Dark Presence form as a muse once more. I'm only 10 minutes into this, so more likely than not I'll see something disproving this. Edit: Covering some video elements real quick. I think you might be wrong about Ahti not knowing of Alan's story. In the song Sankarin Tango which played in Control, he describes the events of Alan Wake 2 and QB. Same thing happens in Yoton Yo which is written pre-alan wake 2, but now he acknowledges Scratch and Alan's plots. While it's not impossible since the MC of QB might have had a hand in writing Return based on DLC 3, I don't think this was Alan's doing. Warlin Door is the only person we've seen who could confuse Ahti. I don't think Alan alone could've made somebody as strong as Ahti confused. Door though, he was able to actively fight against the Old Gods and still come out completely untouched. Some fine pre-planning on Door's part since we know the evils he's going to get up to in AW3 or potentially Control 2.

[@phantomleaves]

Thats a good point regarding Ahti. He does seem to be nearly omnipresent, or maybe omniscient to a degree. I'm thinking now that maybe, given the associations that the Dark Place has with water, that Ahti has some intrinsic connection to the Dark Place/the collective unconscious, and maybe that is why he can be affected by Alan and Tom's manipulation of the Dark Place. But being a deity that is "outside" of the timeline or spiral he retains memory of these events even before they occurred in our linear timeline. I could be wrong about Ahti, however I do think that we do see Ahti himself being distressed about "being lost at sea" and not some vessel or person that he possesses, as I have seen theorized.

[@solidspooks1290]

@@phantomleaves I somewhat agree. I think Ahti has a strong enough handle on the Dark Place and the material world to where dimensional shenanigans don't confuse him. After all, Tom did write the events of control and Ahti was entirely aware of that. Then he went to Alan and was entirely aware of his story. Writings, regardless of the writer, don't really do anything to him. I think the only way you can really confuse somebody like Ahti is if you do something in the past that ripples into the present. We also know that the Old Gods owe Door something based on that scene where Door agrees to leave them alone if they do him a favor when he steals Odin's eye. I think whatever Door is trying to do to kill Shawn Ashmore/Tim Breaker (potentially with the help of Odin/Tor) is happening in the past, and that's why Ahti is starting to get confused. He's used to the future/current reality changing, but the past is something no writer has bothered to mess with so far. That may even be why they took Ahti into the retirement home: so he doesn't get hurt by whatever they're attempting to do. Ahti and Odin must be pretty good friends if he can ask a favor like writing a song about Jesse just to get her through a maze lol.

[@aettic]

Neat composition for the fan art.

[@phantomleaves]

@@aettic thank you!

[@SomnusLucisCaelum]

I have a feeling Zane rewrote himself into existence through Alan, using the same archetype, in an attempt to break the spiral. Since the Old Gods dont seem to be affected in the same way by the story, I think they're able to see past the "disguise" into the true Zane whose soul is in Alan, not in the pocket universe. Edit: I think Remedy is also playing with a concept I don't see brought up despite how obvious it seems: mandela effects

[@phantomleaves]

I can understand this interpretation, though given how the clicker is revealed to have worked in AW2(by the Old Gods no less) the original Zane the Writer must be in this pocket universe. However, a part of him living on through Alan could make sense as the inheritor of the Writer archetype

[@SomnusLucisCaelum]

@@phantomleaves there is always the possibility of different alters? And of Zane's living in the pocket universe, the other which was created by Alan as some sort of editor within the Dark Place (the filmmaker), so Zane could've written Alan as one of these alters of his? -The writer to end the loops-? Scratch had a physical form in AN, or at least that's how I interpreted it, since it was destroyed in the end, which is why I think of these possiblities :3

[@phantomleaves]

@@SomnusLucisCaelum yeah I mean we are in major speculation territory here so I can see that being the case…maybe something will be illuminated in the DLCs? Though I doubt any solid answers will be revealed, they seem to be keeping Zane pretty close to the chest. In any case I do like your theory and how it intertwines into mine, thanks for commenting! I’ll be thinking about this…

[@mojtabafotouhi866]

Wow, one the best videos about story of the game, great work man.

[@phantomleaves]

Thank you so much!

[@AgentZarkov_2133]

Great video, I don’t remember this dialogue with Ahit, or maybe I just didn’t think too deeply into it. Thank you for showing this. I think this scene really shows the power of the dark place. For all intents and purposes Ahti is a god within this world. He can freely move between the Oldest House, the Dark Place and Bright Falls/Watery at will. For the him to be confused shows the power at work there. One of my theories in all this in regards to the Dark Place entity, Ahti, the Board, the Oldest House, etc is that we are seeing primordial entities that have been worshipped in the past as gods and how they are still in our world today. My theory is that the board were the Norse pantheon and the entity in the Dark Place is an escaped board member/god. At least that’s part of my head cannon….and it’s definitely Loki lol

[@mirandagoldstine8548]

But then…if the Other isn’t Loki then who are they? Ugh…this game’s universe is so confusing and I love it. I mean we never got an explanation on the rocking horse in the cabin. There has to be something about it.

[@AgentZarkov_2133]

@@mirandagoldstine8548 that’s the beauty of this universe. Much of it is subjective, we rarely get definitive explanations of anything. Hell.. I’m certain the Fra Mauro AWE is just an homage to Bowie’s Space Oddity. I’ll never get an actual answer, but the speculation and discussion is the fun of it all!

[@mirandagoldstine8548]

True…ah but that rocking horse has to mean something. Perhaps Alan is the reincarnation of Tom’s unborn child, a child that never got the chance to live life. And if that’s the case…then it would explain the rocking horse and why Alan and Tom resemble one another. Plus in stories about reincarnation it can take time for a rebirth to occur. Unfortunately I think the theory is a bit flimsy. Not enough evidence to support or refute yet. We just need to see where the DLC takes us.

[@phantomleaves]

I definitely agree that at least some of these paranatural entities are gods from various religions. Ahti being the the Finnish god of the sea seems like a slam dunk

[@AgentZarkov_2133]

@@phantomleaves that’s what I said Tom!

[@piratetv1]

Alan and Tom are pen names used by the master of many worlds. But who is that? Sam???

[@phantomleaves]

@@piratetv1 honestly probably 😂