THROTTLE CONTROL FOR DUMMIES - Get Better & Safer Drives Out of Turns

[@phillygoat]

Happy Derek brought up the question about WHERE in the turn to apply this technique. It was something I was slow to understand. I used to feel like I was doing great in the “fast” group of track days, not realizing how lucky I was not to lose the front from opening the throttle too soon in the corner (a result of over slowing/not trail braking enough into turns). Anyway- four club racing seasons under my belt and my fundamentals are decent, but I really like your description of finding the next bits of time/speed in the “in between “ spaces. I could see this difference while trying to stay with our local club #1 during a qualifying session. By the end of the second lap trying to stay with him, he was gone. There was nothing spectacular about his riding aside from simply being quicker with his transitions during cornering and being more comfortable being closer to the edge of traction. (Racing Aprilia RS 660s) Really loving this channel- picking up a ‘20 Super Duke w/ 900 mi?! on Saturday for road trips and occasional track days. The RS 660 is a blast and saves $$$ on tires but I miss having something ridiculous! Racing OR/WA but have ridden the season opener at T-hill couple times. Hope to see ya some time. Cheers! Phillip

[@superduked33]

Four seasons in, good for you. Most only talk about, dream about racing. Making the leap is a big deal. Takes courage voluntarily entering an environment where you know you'll get humiliated, at first. So, props to you. Also for recognizing going faster, at first, is about the bigger things. But after some time it morphs into being more about the little things. And then the super little things. ...Thanks for this response, its inspiring - and by that I mean it is fuel for me to make another.

[@21r1_tony2]

Such great info! Going to use the “get it in, get it turned, get it out” this weekend at the track.

[@superduked33]

Good luck, stay safe.

[@huntersmark917]

This stuff is gold! My input for any rider wanting to try out sliding the bike: riding style determines bike set-up. You need to creep up on this idea in stages. Entry, mid corner, and exit. If you're already riding, you have your style and you're trying this technique, the bike is going to need to be setup correctly for you per your style. Don't try to make too many changes too quickly while learning a new technique if you already have a good bike setup. If you're not naturally doing this already, then work at it very slowly. This is not a technique for people doing their first year of track riding. You will not benefit from trying to slide the tire, but you will benefit from learning where there is traction and where there is not. Good luck and hopefully you don't highside too much.

[@rlobosco1]

I haven’t yet watched the video that confused your guest, but your analogies in this video were about as good as I’ve seen, if not the best. The idea of the throttle being at 150 and the tire at 50, even if exaggerated, caused the light bulb to go on for me. Thank you!

[@superduked33]

Awesome! Thank you for responding. You alone just made the effort of making this video worthwhile for me. Good luck out there

[@RamboRob]

Wow this was eye opening about being in too high of a gear and a lot of what I feel on the track. Subscribed for more.

[@superduked33]

Super glad it helped. I'll do more

[@thenovalabs]

That last part is a gem!!!! Im only able to do this in video games because my race craft is not there yet(not enough seat time) but “because Im going slower” Is the key to passing in my head. It closes the line and lets you get on a slight bit sooner than the other guy on a wider line.

[@superduked33]

100%. Remember your ultimate goal is not to go as fast as you can. It’s to complete the lap in less time. Two totally different things

[@ChrisGuthrie]

I appreciate how you explain things. Very easy for someone that's lived motorcycles. Ricky Carmichael once asked another rider why was he working so hard in the middle of the turn.. reasoning that once you're in the turn its just roll speed until you start accelerating out. The accelerating out the way homie was doing it, not on dirt, is a fast way to quit riding. Learn that on a dirt bike on flat corners. Learn to control a drift on dirt. If you can do it on dirt, and do it enough, it'll be natural on the street and hurt a lot less when you hit those milestones of learning it. But loving the content. Got 26yrs all self taught on dirt bikes and street bikes and still learn from the ways others explain their high understanding of the physics and more importantly mindset of what we are doing.

[@superduked33]

More Ricky Charmichael please!! :)). I agree with you. And thank you for contributing. Says a lot / means a lot

[@RANhxcCORE]

Haven't watched yet but after being subbed for a few months - I absolutely love your down to earth and just intuitive way of explaining things that other coaches seem to miss the mark on. can't wait to finish this eps!!

[@superduked33]

Thank you brother that means a lot to me. These things take me forever to make. I may ride faster than average but I definitely film and edit slower than everyone. :))

[@usarespnsblty]

The Jason Uribe lesson got me. That's absolutely gold. 19:00 pay attention this school right here. Brilliant. With experience it will become brake, throttle, turn.

[@superduked33]

100%

[@andyarmstrong81]

Traction is the adhesion of the tire to the track. With no slip this adhesion is static (no wheel slip on the track surface), like you are trying to slide something over a surface but it is not moving. Coefficient of static friction is higher than dynamic friction, which is why it takes more force to start get get something sliding across a surface but when it starts the force required to keep it moving reduces. Physics. This explains the sudden vwapppp as you put it.

[@superduked33]

Great explanation of my most hateful moments in racing. Faaaak!!

[@RamboRob]

Good stuff. Thank you.

[@superduked33]

Glad you enjoyed it, I'll make more

[@SongJLikes]

Anyone ever mention how much this helps them in ‘sim’ racing, ie. video games? Cuz I’m a real-life sportbike/street rider… But I RACE in Ride 4, and I’ve used real-life racing/riding tips to help get me where I am in the game.. And this video touches on my approach to ‘drifting’ my bike into particular corners to get through them quickly 🤷‍♂️

[@thenovalabs]

I know who you are talking about with the analogies😅This is my new favorite channel by alot.

[@superduked33]

Thank you!! Means a lot that you took the time to respond

[@joecurmaci5880]

Whatever happened to crash test goat 🐐 I couldn't believe he rode everyday and posted every day and then all of a sudden gone best street bike rider anyone's ever seen

[@davidsaunders7118]

No bro😂. Dudes like him are who all these young guns are idolizing…and dying after trying to imitate

[@exothermal.sprocket]

What I'd like to know is how your hand gets way down the track before the engine does. 😆 Understanding "the racing line" is the first step in putting the bike where it HAS to be, before applying braking, turning, accelerating principles. Turning is not braking, is not accelerating, it's basically the slowest part of getting around a track. The turn should be as short as possible on the track environment. Sometimes that is not possible (high speed, wide radius corners) but many times it is.

[@superduked33]

Seems basic and obvious but many riders don’t recognize the process as individual jobs - like you and I describe. I also agree that “your” turn needs to occur at the slowest part of “the” turn. But neither of these can effectively occur if you don’t purposefully slow down. And many riders that I see do not do this. Do you sincerely not understand my throttle twist getting ahead of the bike (or traction) analogy? Or are you joking. Because Derek was not joking initially, but he gets it now, and also thankfully understands the danger in it

[@exothermal.sprocket]

@@superduked33 No I understand what you mean by your gestures, I'm being facetious. My mind works on physics and engineering, understanding how an engine generates power and understanding how traction is achieved and kept. I appreciate your videos! There's a 20-part playlist over at Traxxion Dynamics called "Suspension For Mortals" that I got a lot out of. It's been a while since I watched it but it made sense to me when I did. Also explained the racing line.

[@walterhorn5567]

Back when I was racing my 05 GSXR 1000 I was decimating one side of rear tires in a 20 minute session I had the suspension guy and the Perelli guy adjusting pressures and suspension settings and I was just killing tires, nothing helped until I was passing somebody who was laying the most beautiful black strip on the d shaped back strait and I realized as I blew past him that it wasn’t the tire pressure or the suspension it was simply my wrist. Simply changing to a smoother application of the power instead of ham fisting it saved the tires and didn’t really affect lap times

[@exothermal.sprocket]

Ideally, the fastest way around a track is when the limit of tire adhesion is continually reached without being exceeded. Whether that's acceleration, braking, or leaning is the balance game of the operator. Hence trail-braking. While upright 100% traction is used for braking. When beginning to tip into the turn, that braking power has to be gradually reduced to trade traction for cornering force. By the time you taper that brake off to the apex at full lean, you start on the throttle smoothly from zero to full throttle by the time you're standing straight up on the exit. Ideally, it's a gradient of brakes, to lean, to throttle, to standing up without overcoming traction at any point. The throttle is not a on/off switch. The brake lever is not an on/off switch. These are like dials, you start at zero and dial to 100% and then roll off back to zero. Suspension setup is very important in this because braking and accelerating shifts weight front to back which can cause cornering traction to go haywire (which we don't want).

[@superduked33]

It’s funny you speak on this. On my bicycle ride with Gavin yesterday we talked about exactly this - Gavin, who also rides ham fisted, spoke about his painfully short tire lifespan. Where I can ride a tire so long it’s more of a triangle shape than round, Gavin destroys his still perfectly round tires in just one race. I find it takes much more focus for longer times, accelerating the “5%” way, but the benefits of speed, safety, and control are outstanding

[@exothermal.sprocket]

@@superduked33 Smooth is fast as they say. When the operator is asking a tire to transmit wild force immediately, thinking this is the way to go fast, the tire melts away and the lap time is still slow. Hahaha

[@MrBCRC]

6:00 I remember hearing somewhere that it's what Mick Doohan used to do. Sit higher in the revs so that when the wheel spin started to happen it was close enough to the rev limit to not lose it completely

[@superduked33]

No kidding?!?! I never heard that but it’s brilliant. So much safer and exacting. Much less of a delta between your wrist and your traction. Thanks for this

[@seancorcoran1183]

Thanks Gogo and Derek. I was looking at Vanson leathers last night saw your video with the baseball bat lmao.

[@CAPTAINAUSTRIA307]

Another great, insightful and funny video but... what has Derek ever done to you that justifies his brutal roasting?! :-) (I have very close friends like this and we do the same to each other :-))

[@superduked33]

OMG don’t even worry. Derek dishes abuse out to me in never ending brutal fashion. He’s actually worse to me than I am to him. We met playing softball years ago. I’m the oldest guy on the team, so you can imagine the abuse. Motorcycles came later after he learned what I do. Then finally the tables turned on him for a change. I have years still before I make up the abuse deficit. :))))

[@CAPTAINAUSTRIA307]

@@superduked33 Because you and I are the same age I am feeling MUCH better now! Go get him! LOL

[@walterhorn5567]

My dad taught me “slow in fast out” on the corners before the big straits. You will gain more time being the first on the gas and carrying that advantage all the way down the straightaway then you will being the last one on the brakes And fighting to turn the bike And accelerate. You sacrifice a little bit here for a big advantage there

[@superduked33]

100%. But many don’t want to give away anything anywhere and pay the price

[@bryansuperduke1290r]

Poor Derek taking all the piss taking!

[@superduked33]

Oh don’t worry he dishes the piss toward me like a champ every moment he gets :)

[@renetand]

What about traction control? I do get different advise. Just floor it a ref high and trust the traction control or be gentle and try to be your own traction control? The first advice was given by the suspension expert I went to.

[@superduked33]

Mind you, I have never ridden a MGP bike nor do I know facts considering their electronics. But my understanding is their traction control is worlds different than ours. Much more advanced, much more adjustable - not only considering lean angle / throttle / front and rear wheel speeds vs GPS speeds, but also Al of these things on a per track, per corner, per tire basis, among other considerations. So maybe they can pin the gas and go, but you and I not so much. Our bikes won’t accurate as smoothly as theirs, as controlled as theirs, or as efficiently as theirs. Our bikes will slip / cut / recover / slip / cut / recover more primitively. More violently. And in the end, not nearly as fast as you can on your own. For instance I turn faster lap times when my traction control setting is: “OFF”

[@vojtechvacek4783]

I didn't watch the whole video, but I'm using rev limiter as a poor man's traction control all the time.

[@superduked33]

There’s more to it when you have time.

[@thenovalabs]

Do you coach at all? Where would I have to go lol

[@superduked33]

I do. Northern California Love helping riders hone their craft