Engines of SEPTA ALP 44

Update: As of April 14th 2022 all 7 AEM-7s as well as ALP-44 2308 were moved to Morrisville by SEPTA where CSAO later took em the next day to a scrapyard in Fairless hills... the end has come for 2308 and the toasters I'm afraid.
Happy Early 4th of July!
It's been long enough since an Engines of SEPTA video was released hasn't it? Well here's SEPTA's Swedish meatball the ALP-44. The intro is done in sort of a style from a Mustard video covering the TU-144 (Check out Mustard's channel he does brilliant work)
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Chapters
Intro: 0:00
Introduction To The AEM-7: 0:41
The Swedish Look A Like: 1:20
Late To The AEM-7 Club: 2:03
NJT's New Locomotives: 3:27
A Lawsuit Settlement On Wheels: 5:14
Horns: 6:22
Unreliable But Popular: 6:54
The End of the NJT ALP-44s: 7:34
The Last One Left: 9:35
The End Of 2308's Career: 9:50
Ending: 12:39

[@CPT113]

ALP-44 we will never forgot

[@nicholasdillonjr.5125]

Amtrak

[@dondemonwolfdonovanchanner5350]

I know this train is in this train is in a better place that theme song wants to make me cry a little bit but I'm a really strong person I never cry I'm sometimes my heart start broken ALP-44 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏😭😭😭🙏🙏😭🙏😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔

[@Iron-Griffon]

I love this channel, cause it's train anime, but without the "plot".

[@powershoteight3483]

I'm still surprised the alp44 and aem-7 are still mixed up. Atlas and MTH still got the alp44 wrong. They probably went the cheap route assuming customers will still buy a AEM-7 with NJT SEPTA livery. I remember people arguing that model train collectors were picky and can point out every flaw in a scale locomotive such as missing 2-3 rivets. I never thought I would become one of them. I really liked this locomotive more than the GG1. I could never find any images of its interior until I went to the site where locos are stored. Great tribute video.

[@quinnmattern2665]

Your videos are great! Ive been a rail fan for 40 years, and so many things have changed. I don't recall any other fans commenting on horn types, maybe something new. Keep up the good work!🚂🚈

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

Thanks!

[@Hired_49.-ri]

​@@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren your information on septa is really brilliant keep up the good work mate

[@phlbuff]

This is awesome thunder, I hope you make more never stop. Thanks

[@Ih8kone]

FYI, his name is Tom

[@phlbuff]

@@Ih8kone im well aware of that now, lol

[@Animegaem_fan]

0:00 again anthor bowl hits the floor

[@TPB-OPA]

Daylight 4449 Southern Pacific that's nothing

[@The8BitNerd]

Too bad this meme is now dead with the new intro

[@Razorgeist]

Nice video I was always curious about this locomotive nice to see its story. I do enjoy your videos they lack the cynicism of some other video makers who do videos about railroads. Its quite refreshing.

[@jmillz2144]

I remember when the first few weeks riding on the Valley Flyer that engine was still around and that was probably two years ago I think. Always took that train to work and remember that diesel too. Until the later months I saw the new diesels and they are ok but do miss the old ones .

[@burlingtonnorthernfan4216]

gotta love this engines of septa videos!

[@harrisonofcolorado8886]

3:22 6:37 and 11:48 RIP headphone users.

[@zeferinoresendiz1698]

My ears died

[@ajjj4wood1]

Ima turn up the volume

[@MetxsightseerRailfan]

I laughed at 3:22

[@pdrumz534]

Apparently you were correcr

[@mr.conductorfromsts4204]

For NJ Transit, ALP-44 was replaced by the ALP-46 and ALP-46A, and ALP-45DP For SEPTA, AEM-7 and AL-44 was replaced by Siemens ACS-64

[@colamations5066]

The alp-45dp was not made to replace alp-44

[@mr.conductorfromsts4204]

@@colamations5066 I just got carried away.

[@Boypogikami132]

I liked how SEPTA just flipped the Amtrak ACS 64 numbering

[@dondemonwolfdonovanchanner5350]

Same

[@elmanmammadov3189]

*RC6. The Rc7 was a test model for the Blue X trains. Unlike the Rc4 Rc6 have a max speed of 100mph (160kmh)

[@dmc1512]

LOL that Mustard refrence [ 1:09 ]

[@harrisonofcolorado8886]

Yeah I noticed that! That reference is from his tu-144 video.

[@StickwithBrooklyn]

I like the fact the video said EXATLY what you said "WELL THATS WHAT I JUST SAID"

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

It was just a funny gag I decided to slip in XD

[@Wes8761]

Personal favorite. I have been to lackawanna cut off

[@ashleyjiscool]

can you do engine fo septa acs64

[@CentralFloridaThrills]

That one photo of the New Jersey Transit ALP 44 and The Septa AEM-7 was taken in Long Branch New Jersey By point pleasant

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

Was that in the 90s during Railworks? I know NJT traded 5 U boats for 3 Toasters during that time period in the 90s due to the Reading Viaduct being out of service cutting off the Ex RDG lines into Philly

[@CentralFloridaThrills]

Ya that’s why septa ran 5 U34CH For the tosters. Yes I am in the point plesent and Ben Ralf’s Ning long Branch for years. Also this is not about the Alp 44 if you do see ABB ALP 45 tell me I see them often for electric and disal

[@CentralFloridaThrills]

Thanks for telling me I know that yard because the yard is viewable from the platform. On the U34CH There from ere Lackawanna To The Formation of New Jersey Transit . Then they retired them and gave 5 to Septa. I have only saw one video of it on Express service don’t remember the name. That’s all the Imformation that I have but there is a lot of sites but Don’t know about The Septa ones

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

I do know 4154 received SEPTA's diesel blue. Kinda wish we kept it as it'd make a nice mantience/rescue diesel compared to the Caterpillar ones like the RL1As which aren't too reliable nor strong (SEPTA 80 struggled with the North Wales 150 excursion with 40 on flat ground while 40 took Pennbrook hill (steepest grade on SEPTA) like a champ with 80 in neutral

[@jacksonwong8748]

@@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren I went to Baltimore today

[@RicardoSantos-il3ee]

Not many people know that NJ Transit actually still has four working ALP-44s in the Meadowlands Maintenance Complex as rescue locomotives to this day. So the ALP-44 isn’t entirely gone forever.

[@chandlerbranchrailfanprodu5928]

Proof? If you can provide numbers that would be great

[@harrisonofcolorado8886]

Rest in peace the ALP-44.

[@dondemonwolfdonovanchanner5350]

I know I miss that train too since it got scrap

[@harrisonofcolorado8886]

@@dondemonwolfdonovanchanner5350 wait, the locomotive has already been scrapped?

[@RDC2003]

@@harrisonofcolorado8886 since may 14 '22

[@A_Lazy_dude]

Update guys an NJT alp-44 has been donated the URHS

[@Mnrr6131]

Correction: The AEM-7s actual top speed was 135mph. It only got up to 125mph while in service

[@malachimuhammad-dy2ow]

Or they can go at 130mph if wanted.

[@RockstarRomania]

I know that the US has the FRA Tier 1 standard that limits locomotives to a max speed of 125mph as far as my knowledge goes.

[@homerogarzajr1787]

I just love the premier feature

[@Ih8kone]

One of these locomotives is being preserved at the United Railroad Historical Society of New Jersey. Hopefully the rest of them at Port Morris Junction will be donated to museums. Two of Amtrak's AEM-7 (Toasters) were preserved, but all the rest were scrapped.

[@eastcoastrailproductions5559]

11:48 was really me. A fellow railfan told me they were going to Morrisville yard, I was on NJ Transit lines with catenary for a month and didn’t see them😭

[@thegr8winston]

Aye I can see myself in this video and I'm pretty sure I'm the railfan who blasted the horn at Fern rock 😂😂😂

[@wolf_demon-qn9ur]

My favorite KZbinr

[@thebigguyangel]

8:10 Uh, the ALP-46 and 46As were built by Bombardier.

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

That makes more sense -- why go back to the same manufacturer that made unreliable units, if you have another choice?

[@spacewolfjr]

They were actually built by my friend Tony in his basement.

[@karlethewitt]

Spacewolf Jr. Lol

[@RockstarRomania]

@@Lucius_Chiaraviglio Sorry for responding so late. Bombardier in the case of the ALP-46 was the former ADtranz, or ABB Daimler-Benz Transportation. But by the time they came to NJT, DaimlerChrysler (after buying ABB's share in ADtranz a year or so prior) already sold ADtranz to Bombardier.

[@filipgolonka3758]

Liked the mustard reference

[@ambermolohon3986]

I read that thing that was on the front of 2308 when it was on that farewell excursion

[@matthewhahn1132]

Very amazing

[@flopsyrailwayproductions1434]

I love this episode.

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

I feel like each episode gets better than the last one.

[@flopsyrailwayproductions1434]

@@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren My 2 favorite Engines of Septa episodes are your J G Brill bullet and your Silverliner 4 episodes.

[@empirestaterailfan4960]

I LOVE THESE VIDS 😍😍😍😍😍

[@Strasburg_Railfaner611]

The septa AEM-7s and ALP-44 2308 got scrapped last year

[@stephensardos6418]

You should do a 'Engines/Equipment of NJT' segment as they had/have some of the strangest equipment going. And most of it is preserved by the URHS and leased to some shortline railroads.

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

Also equipment of PATCO, since that runs into Philadelphia.

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

NJT is not my strong point and I'm not a huge fan of them. The only NJT I get to see is the ACL service that goes through 30th street with GP40s on them and I use to see Arrows when leased to Amtrak for Holiday Extras but since they didn't have PTC they didn't. Someone else I heard may be drafting an Engines of NJT however I'm not sure.

[@87STEELE]

Not all of them are on the deadline at Port Morris. 4 are stored serviceable at the MMC in the event that NJT becomes power short again, and they’re in surprisingly good condition with all parts still in tact.

[@powershoteight3483]

I saw that in February, on my way to hoboken. Really made my day knowing they are somewhat preserved.

[@g-manonthego6678]

Well, here’s the thing: NJT’s got more than enough ALP46’s than they know what to do with (65), so they will never be power short

[@paulasienebadelles7866]

RIP ALP-44 i will miss you

[@dondemonwolfdonovanchanner5350]

I like your comment like I actually seen these trains before it's a shame we're not going to see them again makes me sad I have a broken heart now ALP 44 sometimes I cry because some SEPTA trains to go scrap 💔😭😭😭💔💔💔💔💔💔 I got to admit these were really good trains I will never forget these type of trains May Day last run in septa community service is making me cry but why they have to retire them makes me sad 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔

[@ginostrains8263]

Why do septa locomotives have their forward pantograph raised while traveling forward instead of their rear pantograph?

[@nyclev_]

2308 is my favorite out of the AEM-7/ALP 44

[@Wes8761]

Eight Avenue Productions mine are either 4430 or 4422. I have seen the inside of 4422 at lackawanna cut-off. Someone used an angle grinder or something to cut the metal off the windshield so you can climb right in

[@malachimuhammad-dy2ow]

The ALP-44 just looks like an AEM-7.

[@charlesdasilva7860]

@@malachimuhammad-dy2ow Yes

[@Mario-jv7bl]

good vid

[@calebtrains2261]

Where will your next documentary take place, and when will it be? Love the videos, NJT used to have ALP-44s, also.

[@phill1451]

Caleb Trains22 next is July 6th, Lac Magantic 6 years later

[@calebtrains2261]

@@phill1451 He did that accident last year.

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

The Lac Megantic sequel is on the brink of cancellation though due to lack of time and 1 video on that accident is good enough. If so Camp Hill will be next on the 17th and that's another wreck from my area but with the clock turned back to 1856.

[@thatoneredtankengine-bobby2850]

@@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren if the lac megantic reboot gets canceled that's fine

[@ohiorailfanproduction5436]

Very epic

[@Wes8761]

Ohio Railfan production Electro-Pneumatic Instructional Computing??? Thats what EPIC means for the microprocessor

[@nanetteescudero7655]

RIP ALP-44 I WILL MISS YOU

[@dondemonwolfdonovanchanner5350]

Mate I know I know I miss it too but the train is in a better place right now and now new something on the rails it's called the SEPTA ACs 64 I miss these trains too I've seen them before makes me sad too we do not see them anymore 😭😭😭💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 I'm too strong to cry I'll miss you too ALP-44

[@c418stal5]

With his theme it just makes me want to cry

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

It just fits so well

[@dondemonwolfdonovanchanner5350]

So what is the name of the theme song I don't even know we love all love alp 44 and I know the train is in a better place right now like in the scrap graveyard I will say this it will always remember this train and I know it's heartbroken too we do not see them anymore so there's new train to the rails the SEPTA ACS 64 numbered I think 901-902 I think I've seen at ACS 64 before

[@dondemonwolfdonovanchanner5350]

That theme song want to make me cry a little bit

[@JPaul60]

2308 the problem child. I was the official babysitter. 2308 and I retired at the same time.

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

Appropriate nickname XD. It was a favorite among railfans but among crews? Big cranky shop queen

[@supermarionathan1426]

8:10 NJT’s ALP-46 and ALP46As were not built by ABB. They were built by Bombardier!

[@davidng2336]

I am really hoping to see this unit preserved.

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

Well SEPTA's been keeping a Silverliner II hidden away so it's possible 2308 will have a chance due to her sole survivor status

[@jamesbraun9842]

The fire department in my town uses the same horns

[@mr.conductorfromsts4204]

1:15 New Jersey Transit is ABB ALP44E/M/O

[@seminolegonzalezairlines7757]

Rumor has it that our railroad may end up restoring the ALP-44's and running them on the Meteor service.

[@matpist7116]

Great video !!! 12:30 does someone know the music ?

[@kabob129]

Will you continue this series because there are still the trolleys and subway cars

[@flopsyrailwayproductions1434]

I hope ALP-44 2308 gets sold to the Illinois Railway Museum. I would love to see it next to AEM-7 945.

[@Highballer-500X]

I got to see the preview

[@wolf_demon-qn9ur]

The Last Song part the song made me cry a little bit

[@thatoneredtankengine-bobby2850]

wait I good documentary suggestion Wreck of the Old 97

[@SeanBodine]

I have a really great idea. Can you do the MP54?

[@captainecho764]

Weren’t the new SEPTA ACS-64s found to have cracks in the frames early in their career?

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

No that was the Vs you're thinking of

[@captainecho764]

Thunderbolt 1000 Siren Productions oh ok

[@muhammadfadhiil3430]

the opening is just like mustard's video of the TU 144 Soviet supersonic passenger jet right

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

Yep. I said that in the description. Thought it'd fit considering the AEM-7 looks alike to the ALP-44

[@ottomatic6432]

11:48 That made me jump when you yelled like that.

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

Well that really bothered me that NJT just let them sit instead of using them. Another reason why NJT is not a favorite of mine

[@MetxsightseerRailfan]

@@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren chill brah.

[@colamations5066]

Quick Note: I Will Do The ALP-44 In The Future But It’s NJT Not SEPTA

[@crimminsfamily1917]

Will you Ever do the ACS-64 Broad street line and El Train? (MFL)

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

ACS-64? No too young. Only been in service for about a year. MFL and BSL? Yes in the future after SEPTA 80 is covered

[@narteksakaevolt]

How about episode about HHP-8(my favorite)

[@ajjj4wood1]

Are you gonna do the engine of septa MFL Budd M3’s

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

In the future. The SEPTA diesels are 1st however

[@TogVR1]

Why do a lot of AEM7 DCs which are the old ones look like and ALP44

[@gundambanshii9735]

Do you attend college around the Phillly area, because I go to Temple?

[@Tom8201]

Hopefully a MARC AEM-7, a SEPTA AEM-7, Septa 2308 and at least one NJT ALP-44 are saved.

[@ajjj4wood1]

are you going to engins of septa on the market frankford line budd cars

[@tameek1842]

Can you do on the septa market frankford line next time

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

In the future the MFL cars will be covered... if the series survives long enough

[@adamdahabra4653]

What can we do to save of all of these poor alp 44. I don't want them to be scrapped and all of these aem-7s

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

It seems SEPTA may have plans to use them on gel train service. 2304 was seen in front of Wayne electric as of Oct 19th with 2307 on the left side of the shop building.

[@adamdahabra4653]

But about njt

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

@@adamdahabra4653 Likely nothing that can be done :/ they're all likely ready for scrap. Rumor has it 4 were pulled from the line for preservation but it's very likely false

[@reza121du]

Can you do the ACS 64 ?

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

Very likely not for a long time as the engine's only real known history has been with Amtrak while the SEPTA ones are still new and have had an uneventful history so far.

[@YukariAkiyamaTanks]

Well at least one NJT alp has been preserved

[@A_Lazy_dude]

Yep it’s 4424

[@somax1259]

i wonder what if Amtrak got some alp 44s

[@nyclev_]

The SEPTA is my favorite livery in the AEM-7/ALP 44

[@RRansomSmith]

Wut?

[@nyclev_]

@@RRansomSmith what

[@RRansomSmith]

@@nyclev_ Not sure what's being said. Is English your first language?

[@nyclev_]

@@RRansomSmith what I was born here idiot

[@nyclev_]

@@RRansomSmith is English not your first language

[@The_Phone_Bin_Diver]

Can I get the link to that NJT video?

[@Gojira160]

NJT 4424 was preserved.

[@VeshremyClone6]

Good afternoon

[@davidng2336]

I’m hoping the ALP-44 gets saved.

[@empirestaterailfan4960]

Wait, I thought the Alp46 and 46a’s were manufactured by Bombardier. It that true?

[@RicardoSantos-il3ee]

Yes, they were manufactured by Bombardier. It was probably just a mistake or a misprint that he said it was created by ABB.

[@wolf_demon-qn9ur]

What is the name of the song though I never heard of it

[@SiegmaDarius4876]

8:32 how does an electric engine operate in the non electrified Atlantic City Line?

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

From what I remember that service had an ALP-44 at one end for the under wire sections via Amtrak and a diesel (Believe they primarily used Ex Amtrak P40s) for the dieselized ACL. Better idea than using ALP-45DPs which are RUBBISH engines.

[@wandammckinney1481]

does the aces still run as of today because i never see one

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

Yes but they run on certain lines at certain times. Paoli Thorndale (most common), Wilmington Newark, and West Trenton lines see them on rush hour express trains from 6am to 9am and 4:30pm to 7pm while 1 set (The all day set) runs first on the Paoli Thorndale in the morning, then goes to the Media Elwyn, then the Manayunk Norristown (my line) in the afternoon at 12:22, then the Elwyn again, then Warminster, I think it hits the Lansdale Doylestown line too at night before finishing back on the Paoli Thorndale. I most commonly see the all day set in my area and can hear the K5LAs from the cab car and ACS-64 from my house. Good luck on catching them!

[@wandammckinney1481]

I'm talking about the alantic city express service

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

@@wandammckinney1481 in the video I said ACES service was cancelled so thats why you never saw one

[@nanetteescudero7655]

6:36 nice horn i watched your documendaries i am a filipino

[@mile290productions3]

Those poor ALP-44s....

[@colbyjames7205]

Sadly non of the ABB ALP-44's from SEPTA survive all where scrapped in 2022 not one single example saved as SEPTA history, But good news the New Jersey Transit ones half are left and one example United Railroad Historical Society of New Jersey has 4424 their and that unit entered service around the same year I was born basically but not the same date I was born on.

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

SEPTA only had 1 ALP-44. 4424 is indeed preserved but acts as a cab car due to the lack of wires on the rails it's owned by.

[@ItsSnowyAmelia]

2:58 😂

[@mbtaghost2583]

12:29 what the song name?

[@josephharper8708]

Has anybody noticed that from 1:16 to 2:03, it sounds very similar to Mustards Russian Concorde video.

[@josephharper8708]

I'm not complaining, I really like the video, I'm just saying something I noticed

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

Done on purpose because the opportunity was there and I also do watch Mustard's content

[@josephharper8708]

Ok, cool

[@kryhtz]

What is the intro music

[@ajjj4wood1]

They thunderbolt 1000 siren productions starts to have a meltdown at 3:22 and then again at 11:48 dude really

[@ajjj4wood1]

You haven’t did engine of septa on the market frankford line

[@dondemonwolfdonovanchanner5350]

That theme song wants to make me cry I'm too strong to cry but I will miss you too Alp 44 we will always remember you know the things they are trains like SEPTA💔😭😭😭😭

[@justinhicks4897]

I’d be ok if 2308 was sold to a museum like the railroad museum of Pennsylvania

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

That's what I'm hoping but that depends if they have room. 2308 being set next to 915 would offer a nice contrast to 2 very similar engines

[@ashleyjiscool]

can you do engines of septa as64

[@enaqleelectric]

3:48 ITS BASED OF TEH RC6 *TRIGGERED* (The RC series only has even numbers)

[@chayn.3918]

What’s the difference between the AEM-7 and the ALP-44

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

It's mentioned in the video. The windshield borders, no middle strobe between the number boards, the placement of the K5LAs, And other physical differences. Also one was Swedish built by ABB while the other was made by EMD

[@thesneakinspider3193]

if you use a similar recording area and mic a little bit of audio editing then noone would be able to tell where cuts were and you could reread the lines without the distracting audio changes. Also it seems that you take notes and flesh it out from there, while that is ok I recommend a run with the notes and then go back and use a script with corrections based off of your first run. I still must give you props for fixing how quiet your voice used to be though.

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

Trust me sometimes I dont catch the mistakes in some audio takes and adding a small edit is better than a full on retake from scratch. The narration while fun to do is VERY stressful to get a perfect take

[@TPB-OPA]

NJT 4401 HAS EVOLVED INTO 2308 Wait nvm

[@nicholasmanning1057]

First Commet love your vids! 😊

[@canadianpacificstudios5835]

Are alp-44 considered toasters? That’s what I have been calling my model NJ Transit? Plz help I don’t want to possibly continue to make my self look like and idiot! Thanks :)

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

Not exactly. I call them "Swedish Meatballs" but they are quite similar to the AEM-7 "toasters"

[@williambrunton2005]

actuly the AEM-7's top speed is 135 MPH

[@tonnyyyzzzplays7309]

I’m late Peoples SEPTA!

[@mr.conductorfromsts4204]

ALP-46 is not manufacturing ABB, because it’s manufacturing Adtranz

[@adithyaramachandran7427]

NJT abandoning all those ALP 44's is a waste of taxpayer money. They are machines that could still lead a useful life. Why not send them to another transit system that needs electric locomotives and make money off that sale ?

[@genoobtlp4424]

Well, which electric system exists in the US? Marc (no more toasters, so why would they want the ALP?) Septa… NJT (that’s why we’re asking) Amtrak (good luck) MetroNorth (got dual mode M8 to run into GrandCentral, so no) MBTA (seem not to like electrics for some reason) Exo (now they’re out of electric due to the REM) Chicago uses 3kVDC RTD (got fancy new Silverliners) Caltrain (getting fancy new Stadler KISS and why would they voluntarily swap engines on express runs?) And maybe GOTransit, but they’re in the far future and getting new European style stuff, or maybe the ACS64 Amtrak wants to get rid of) LIRR is 3rd rail BCRail doesn’t do electric anymore, as does Black mesa That should be about it