Tiefling Warlock with Daddy Issues (5E D&D)- GM 911

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Tiefling Warlock with Daddy Issues (5E D&D)- GM 911
Original GM 911 Post
I'm in a bit of a bind, I'm starting a new campaign and with that comes new and interesting ideas and plots to the table from the players in the party. The one that puzzle me is we have a Tiefling Warlock (The Cliche) who's Patron(A Pit Fiend) is not only his patron but also his father. How do you think i should approach this? What would be expected of the Tiefling in the party if his Patron is indeed his parent and also in time a monster that could potentially become a villain for them to fight and overcome? I've had some ideas of the father trying to turn his son ala Star Wars. But would that be to dumb? Any suggestions?
Thanks in Advance from Ole a New DM from Norway.
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[@Nerdarchy]

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[@JohanFaerie]

Could also do the Rebellious anxty teen thing: "But dad, I wanna be a hero like in Human Folk-tales!" "*Long sigh* fine. Here, take some of my power, go make some friends and go slay *insert rival demon here*. Now get out of my hair!" I find that amusing anyway. XD

[@DragonKnightJin]

That does sound like it could be an easy fit for some of the younger players. They plead for more spell slots, or getting some extra slots back. "Hey Dad. Dad. Dad. Dad. Dad. Dad. Dad. Dad. Dad." "WHAT?!" "I need some more power."

[@JohanFaerie]

XD Eactly, and you still get the whole Patron using pact to further goals motif and you could still do it with any alignment character. Just with really cringy dialogue!

[@mrpanda750]

Tieflings tend to have issues.

[@Vilis_Farthuk]

I currently have a player whose Tiefling Cleric worships god which is a homebrew deity who, prior to ascending to godhood, in a previous campaign helped Asmodeus thwart an attempt by Mephistopheles to usurp him. She has in recent months learned that Mephistopheles is her father, and she has untapped Wild Magic inside her which Mephistopheles wants her to use to help him rise back. So it isn't just a conflict between god and family, but between reliance on a god for power and self-reliance; dedication and self-fulfillment and do they have to be in opposition?

[@mikegould6590]

This sounds less like a problem and more like a plot hook. Because the father is a Pit Fiend, he's a master tactician and manipulator. He'll play the long game. He may be grooming his progeny to replace a rival or to serve as HIS general. That means he's not necessarily against the party all the time, unless the party is out to end this one Pit Fiend. Pit Fiends are Lawful Evil, and are not capricious in their dealings. They will be meticulous and intelligent. They will be ruthless to foes and failures. The Teifling in question will have all this to deal with. I know of this first hand. Veritas, my Teifling Paladin, has an Erinyes mother. It's factored into his past, has come up from time to time, and will likely tie into his future/end game. My DM sees this less as a problem, or "mommy issues", and more of player depth and a willingness to story/world build. I'd see your problem the same way. Not a problem. A chance. Don't throw it away... 😈

[@shadowgear7032]

Hey don't worry my teifling sorcerers mom was a succubus. We killed her at level 10. I have no remorse

[@ShaneAddinall]

Love the idea of after a battle they find a weapon or item bearing daddies insignia. When confronted his response is "Oh great you found my gift." Reveals he's been sending enemies against them from time to time to train her to be his general. The items are "congratulations on your survival" presents.

[@cold_Lightning9]

Mike Gould I'm playing a Cambion, using Tiefling racial stats for balance, and my fiendish mother is also an Erinyes. She tasks me with hunting down evil and wicked souls, or rival warlocks of a different patron, and punishing them with death in exchange for more power and favor. Since my Cambion is also Lawful Evil, my mother and I get along pretty well lol.

[@delongjohnsilver7235]

Could do the route of Marceline the Vampire Queen from Adventure Time. The demon parent could simply think that being evil is the best way to be as they are cosmically evil and they show their affection by doing evil things

[@notoriouswhitemoth]

You brought up Raven from Teen Titans - when you got to the matter of the patron being the big bad, especially after saying it was the mother who took the pact, my mind went to another example: Chrono Trigger. Queen Zeal aligned herself with Lavos, effectively becoming a goddess. It was her decision, but her children are the ones who pay for it.

[@jamesgibson7860]

Marceline the Vampire Queen (from Adventure Time) is another great source of inspiration for a character like this. He father is ruler of the underworld, and always trying to trick her into becoming evil.

[@ShadowSoldier-gu1zl]

I did a character with an all powerful evil father once. I gave him a sister who was on the father’s side and she was his constant antagonist. Unfortunately I didn’t get to see it to completion, but it was fun while it lasted.

[@jeffreyanderson667]

I'm pretty sure that's the plot of The Devil's Advocate with Al Pacino and Keanu Reeves. Lol

[@ShadowSoldier-gu1zl]

All three had psychic powers and were super heroes and villains respectively.

[@RatchildUK]

I like the Idea that the Tiefling was in on the big plan from the get go. And you as a player get to manipulate the other players into doing what's best for you and your patron to ultimately bring it into the prime material plane.

[@iguanadughs1533]

There's actually a really cool idea for a warlock paladin or any warlock/ multiclass in here. The idea that your parents accepted this pact for you and you've just been born with it. So you try to get away from it through trying to go through being a different class.

[@alexandraelizabeth8522]

Without watching the video, that sounds like a fun character concept to me ^.^

[@Never_heart]

I would suggest that the DM looks at Marceline and her father's relationship. More teenage rebellion story but also a nice way to see a relationship where the patron has more of a legitimate affection of his child while still wanting to control the child for his own end.

[@VerumAdPotentia]

My take on it is a Tiefling with the Noble background. Mother was a smoking hot Warlock (Witch?), who agreed to marry his Father for power, and my character was the child. My character's Father doesn't understand him and his friends, and his obsession with being "heroic", but my character's Mother is his patron, because she just wants her son to be successful, even if he has a different "life-style", and of course, Dad is embarrassed of his son's activities. DM took away my spells for a day, because I hadn't come home the previous weekend for dinner with the family. Dad sent an Imp to try to encourage me to turn to evil, and will reward the Imp greatly if I turn evil, and is constantly trying to get my friends to turn by offering them magic items, etc. "MOM! Dad is trying to get my friends to sell him their souls again!"

[@lucaslorena2372]

I once had an idea for a subplot involving an tiefling with The Fiend as his pact. During his first conversation during the game, he would say that "you shall strike against the blood of your own", and this character was going to have a brother, so everyone would think that someday the warlock would have to murder him. The plot twist was that The Fiend was his father all along and wanted his child to inherit his position in the Nine Hells Hierarchy. Unfortunately, the brother thing was scraped and so was this ideia. Still saving it tho, for some game in the future

[@dreddbolt]

The Nerdarchy doods hit it right on the mark with Raven and Trigon, as well as the scenario with a parent giving away their firstborn for a pact. Not a parent pact idea on my end, but some food for thought for the community and the Nerdarchists... I had an idea for a material plane fey pact since my homebrew world has a cataclysmic event backstory. This involved the eradication of the shadowfell, feywild, elemental, and many other planes. Since I'm not publishing it as a module, I decided to homebrew Shovel Knight's Troupple King as an option for fey pact warlocks. Question for Nerdarchists and community, what fictional characters have you homebrewed for warlock pacts?

[@shallendor]

I played a Warlock spy of Rassilon(founding Time Lord), and Rassilon was using him to get enough magic to free Galifrey from its "prison"!

[@dreddbolt]

shallendor celestial? elemental?

[@Bfdidc]

Yeah, I think the Raven/Trigon thing was also apropos to the subject.kzbin.info/www/bejne/sIXLcoqEbNJgbrc

[@lordspider3958]

dreddbolt. Me and my DM made a pretty awesome warlock build for lolth. Loads of fun, and my first evil caricature.

[@dreddbolt]

Lord spider any fictional characters outside of DnD canon?

[@patrickkeller2193]

"Sadly I didn't get a chance to play in that world I helped to destroy" ...

[@VikingFyre]

I was gonna say the Raven and Trigon angle would be the best way to handle it, albeit for the DM’s sake the player should discuss what the goals of the patron are. Not all are World destroyers some just cause issue for the sake of it.

[@Rokkiteer]

Technically, the Tiefling would be a Cambion, if the father was a full-blooded demon. I think having the pit fiend as a grandfather would be interesting too and it's common in many cultures to adress any direct male ancestor for father. That's why some christians say 'father' when they pray to god. Also: Very interesting idea. Would love to have this in the next campaign I run.

[@cold_Lightning9]

Rokkiteer It would be a Devil in this case. I'm playing a Lawful Evil Cambion, Tiefling racial stats for balance, and my mother is an Erinyes. We both see eye to eye in pretty much everything so we get along pretty well lol.

[@proudpapaprick]

Arguably a Cambion father that got promoted by an Archdevil could have been turned into a Pit Fiend. Could make a cool multi-stage boss fight, where you beat his Cambion form and it unleashes the Pit Fiend transformation.

[@zachariaravenheart]

Just reading the title, it seems like my tie fling warlock who’s father is a demon lord

[@johnferrara9624]

Hey. So my current game is on hiatus so in two weeks, we’re starting again. I’m the DM and they’re about to start an arc against kobolds of the White Wastes (think Skyrim’s north) led by the Ice (not white, he made a pact with Tiamat blah blah scourge of worlds blah blah, not stupid anymore)!Dragon Glacienix are trying to take over the continent. First, I wanted to know what you guys would think about almost militarily trained kobolds. Secondly, the session we come back is the session they check up on a small town about a day’s travel on a fast pace from a city in the wastes as part of he bounty they took (kill some kobolds at a fort, check on the village for further information) They don’t yet know that the kobolds are led by this dragon, nor do they know that this town has been completely decimated by the dragon and his forces. How should I go into this with descriptions? My current ideas are finding a single man standing in the cold, touching him causes his skin to fragment before he shatters as he was totally frozen, finding the town with no valuables whatsoever, 2 feet of snow have piled up on the roads, and the mayor’s house has been ransacked, his body derobed of his fancy expensive clothes and covered in stab and slash marks with a letter hastily scribbled saying what happened. They also will find no bodies and the only sound will be the wind and the crunching of the snow under their boots (roll20 sound). Anything else I should add in? I don’t want them to be necessarily attacked here, but rather an experience like Planet of the Apes where they land and no one is around, like a snowy ghost town.

[@CaughtDingoes]

I am running a superhero game where the BBEG is a crime lord and father of one of the PCs. I found once I have BBEG's motive and his logic of why this is the right thing to do/ends justifies the means, I just play him as the father trying to help his son see the world the way it is, though no issue of putting him in his place if the son steps out of line. A fiend teaching their spawn 'look, you're not actually like them. they are like sheepdogs for us to train and play with' would fall under the same logic. Also if you've seen Avatar the last Airbender, mine Zuko and his father's relationship.

[@Fraginator]

I had to rewind and re - listen 3 times to the part about guilting them into being evil. By the time I got through it without laughing I realized everyone in the class I'm in was starting at me and class had started. Oops!

[@Blade_291]

Yup. Def sounds like Raven

[@the_rose_garden01]

I always thought Tieflings started as the grandchild of a Fiend at the most, and the child of a Half Fiend. Then again, I'm not sure if Half Fiends are even a thing in 5e, so I could be wrong

[@clericofchaos1]

well, i'd ask how it's going to affect the game. I once played a pact of the fiend warlock that could grant wishes at level 1 in exchange for a persons soul. the more souls i collected the more rewards i got (I could basically use them as currency with my patron for magic items, unique spells, knowledge, whatever), and obviously it was the demon lord granting the wishes so nobody got out of it happily except me. Still, because i had such a high charisma score and i was offering the deal to literally anybody with a problem, we basically destroyed the dm's game. I can't remember which demon lord it was but i think it was asmodeus. So he was basically all knowing and all powerful and someone makes a deal to slay a dragon that's pestering their village. Asmodeus kills the dragon, my team collects the horde, i get another soul, and then as soon as we leave the dragon is brought back as a dracolich...not our problem, unless someone else in town would like to make a deal. there were also problems with figuring out puzzles and the locations of enemies because we basically had access to very powerful scrying magic at early levels. The campaign ended somewhere after level 6, and it only ended because things had gotten so out of hand at that point we were basically unstoppable, although it's better to say the dm didn't know how to challenge us. should have sent his own gm911 so we could have kept playing.

[@jerseydragon8233]

clericofchaos1 easy fix, make a spells cost via souls expensive and limited in usages per day/week/month/.... , use enemies that are immune to certain effects, make areas where it doesn’t work, etc.

[@clericofchaos1]

it's not that easy. once you've allowed something to go so far it gets to the point where you can't just start picking on one character. you either have to pull him aside and ask him not to do this, or tell him to roll a new character so he can retire this one.

[@joshkorte9020]

I played in a game where my one friend had a bipolar tiefling and they switched personalities all the time and it was funny but sad.

[@joshshin6819]

Josh Korte bipolor or multiple personalities? Bipolor is just emotion swapping on a high effect but not multiple personalities related.

[@vincydenahar546]

Fiendish child support...hilarious

[@PaladinsFury]

It sounds like they were trying to make a D&D equivalent of Raven from Teen Titans

[@fhuber7507]

What do you expect when you essentially let a PC be a demon?

[@wyattwieber3036]

There's gonna be some hint...why do you have Pcs if not for them to miss your hints at every opportunity?

[@retrokungfuu]

Problem to summon a debate, dwarf.

[@jgr7487]

Wow! Dave mispronounced Tiefling again! it's not Teef-ling, it's Ty-fling, like tie, Tyler & tire! [drum roll] yes, I know it comes for Tief /teef/, which is German for Deep as in depths of Hell

[@jgr7487]

usernamedkjah it was a joke on ppl always saying Dave mispronounces things

[@paulcoy9060]

I write out this word for my players, "Thief". Ask them to say it. Then tell them to remove the "h". And since I am the Dungeon Master, my word is law. "I am the Law!"

[@retrokungfuu]

I say tee-fling also

[@joshshin6819]

Not sure why but for me i get tired of every player i get in games who always wants to be a touched by evil at the start of a game. I tried to run a story on roll20 where every player wanted to be this non evil evil character. Every single one of them decided to brood somewhere in a tavern and not engage each other. Was epic.....

[@cold_Lightning9]

Josh Shin Same. I myself wouldn't even pussyfoot around and just go ahead and straight up play an evil character.

[@AlluMan96]

I always liked a more, what I guess you would call "Pedestrian" Warlock. Not someone that has dark ties to this being the user must fight. Not chosen specifically by this being, because it sees an opportunity in him. More like, just a douchebag that made a deal with the devil for more mundane reasons. For example; A Warlock that strikes a deal with the devil in order to save him from a pack of wild animals, like wolves or somethin'. In exchange for something so pitiful, the devil wants what seems like a pittance; He will only serve him on earth for a year, but if he dies or fails him during that year, his soul is his to take. Guy sees that as questionably acceptable a term, and takes it. He clears the wolves out and begins carrying the demon's small errands accordingly. Hook is, however, that the guy is obviously going to be using the powers the demon gave him to go about his quest for selfish or even altruistic reasons. Every time he uses that power for anything beyond his errands or self-preservation, he can just hear this echo in his head going "Yeah, that'll be another week of servitud- oh, look at that, that'll be one more month", constantly digging himself deeper and deeper. But, with some discipline, he'll eventually get through the backlog of servitude... shame about the cancer he recently found out he was dying of...

[@michaelmrozek7206]

This is raven from teen titans how did no one mention this

[@michaelmrozek7206]

1:17 never mind

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

Alright... I usually start things like this with an explanation of "my school of alignment principle"... Here's the short short version that most have trouble with... Evil = "ego-centric" self-centered motives Good= "socio-centric" societal or world improvement motives SO... First to establish in character concept is that the evil side of the campaign isn't necessarily the stereotypical glorifying horrible psycho' shit just for the sake of horrible psycho' shit. They have motivations purely toward personal gains... The Pit Fiend is no different, just that he has a "long term" way of approaching those gains. He can afford to be patient, and it probably serves him well to be lazy and let some enemies die out while he's just "between antagonisms"...I can agree with that part... HOWEVER, along with this longer term approach, comes a LOT more experience in things like manipulation and goal-orientation. That means, he may (probably good at "reading people" so probably) know that his tiefling kid has his own certain motivations. Pact or no, there are ways to "align" one's personal goals along someone else's... So I'd advise against the whole Darth Vader "Join the dark side" approach, and instead work through instigating troubles and making smaller and EASIER steps for earning and keeping his patronage... "Kill that (insert nuisance)"... building up to "You KNOW you want to torture (insert rival)... so DO IT!"... and don't forget the praise. In play, Role Play it hard core. When you notice (and PAY ATTENTION) the tiefling do something of questionable virtue (or especially if it's clearly awful) then enter praise and reward him from "his patron" ... Play it up if you can convince him to torture innocents, torment the weak, harass NPC's and generally bring his patron's darker wants and desires to fruition... Tease and seduce the PC... and even the player with a little extra power... KEEP THE GIFTS AND ESPECIALLY BONUSES SMALL... So you can "reward" him frequently. This is (hopefully) a fairly long term campaign, so if every other minute, the warlock is getting another +1 to hit and +1 to damage for tormenting someone into suicide (not a particularly difficult feat in RP)... The rest of the party is going to be quick to throw fits... BUT... Granting a day's worth of +2 to damage for the last "soul less wretch" sent to his demise? Not so bad... If it's a noble, you could've even just taken 4bonus points and put them to any combination you liked... to hit or to damage... Get a Queen to throw herself from the tower in front of the King? How delicious... You can have... (i dunno) 15% magic resistance the rest of the week... sound nice... Keep up the good work... Yes, his character sheet's going to need a retread every few sessions for this kind of tom-foolery, BUT it role plays well, and with temporary effects (okay, you might want to invest in sticky-notes or something) they come and go as he builds habits to garner patronage... I know it's not entirely "by the books" but this is also not just any patron from "in the books" either... SO you can be free to call "home-brew" and add some extra SPICE to juice things up a bit... DON'T forget to use these little steps to coax and urge the character down the dark and slippery slope into true evil... Just like no body sits up one morning with the thought, "Hey... I want to be a murderous piece of sh*t when I grow up!" It's just not so easy to convince a fairly intelligent "heroic" player to turn over and go into a full on meltdown raping and murdering and enslaving entire towns for a hobby, even if his father is a pit fiend... or Satan, Himself... lolz. Coax it along, direct and concise little "rites of passage" build up to one GRAND ordeal and can then be brought back to the Player's (and character's) attention(s) as to just how morbid and disgusting a piece of crap he's really managed to become... Ain't Daddy proud?! ...Of course... That's probably something like the way I'd do it. I've done worse to much more... virtuous characters... And it's kind of gratifying to watch the "dawning" expressions around the table when all the Players suddenly realize they've been boasting and encouraging their Paladin Leader toward the most reckless and depraved things they could think of... Even more fun with the expression on the Baptist Minister's face (who was playing the Paladin) when he stopped in the midst of suggesting he'd tear a woman's throat out in his teeth so he could spit it into her husband's face... HILARIOUS!!! :o)

[@MrKangaroo123]

Hey, guys, I Need some help with building a character, I have asked about this multiple times over on FB but I am guessing my question got buried in the mountain of comments. I am looking to build a "God-slayer" character and I am just a little unsure how to go about it I know i want my character to be a Drow Elf but I am unsure if I should go with a fighter class or barbarian or maybe barblock so he can have some destruction magic to use as a back up in case he gets disarmed. any help you guys can provide would be a great help.

[@mikegould6590]

Wicked kangaroo It might have been overlooked for that reason. Why slay a god? How do you kill infinite hit points? What is the purpose of this choice? The bigger questions are yet unanswered.

[@Nerdarchy]

We play our games a little different I think. In one of our games a pc isn't likely to slay a god. You'd need level 20 a few times over. That is just to take on an avatar. Nerdarchist Dave

[@MrKangaroo123]

The short and dirty to answer to that is my character hates the gods because a plague came to his lands and killed everyone including his wife and children (even tho his wife was extremely religious and loyal to the goddess of life and wellness) so he cursed the gods and wants vengeance on them for taking his family.

[@brosephnoonan223]

Wicked kangaroo Well. It makes no sense to, really. But hypothetically if your DM is down for it, Barbarian, Rogue, Paladin, Monk, Fighter, or Sorcerer depending on the flair youre goimg for. Before I get into it the MOST important thing here is WHY your character is anti-god. Why can there be no compromise? Do they target all the gods equally? Just the bad ones? Just the good ones? Are there exceptions? 4e had an epic destiny called Punisher of the Gods, and I think there was one for slaying gods as well... You may want to look into them, as they're a good place to start drumming up ideas. Understand that being a "god slayer" is a life time goal, not an occupation. You don't sit down at the table and go "I'm Ted, the Drow God-Slayer" when asked about what you're playing. As a Drow youre naturally inclined to Paladin, Sorcerer, Rogue, and Monk. Now, the Paladin is traditionally empowered by a divine power so you'll likely want a god that doesn't like other gods. We'll leave that class aside as its highly unlikely theres gonna be a god that legit just wants to kill all the others, though talk with your DM if that's interesting to you. Going down the path of Sorcerer is your next best bet. Thematically speaking arcane magic is often at odds with divine magic and you needn't look further than Vecna or The Raven Queen to see that it is possible to become a god through the use of powerful arcane magic. Consider Shadow Sorcerer, Wild Sorcerer, or Divine Soul (again, picking an evil god or perhaps a dead one). The rogue is very good at killing things. But even as an arcane trickster you will likely never have the magical abilities to kill a god. Go Assassin, or Scout and express your characters desire to kill gods to your DM. Understand that there is no "god slayer" class or race or path. Its an achievement, not a skill set. So perhaps play the character as a "big game hunter" to whom all that live can be considered game, or an artist of death who's magnum opus is to bring death to divinity. The monk follows and its probably the best of the choices I've offered, if only because monks are very.... Dynamic. Along side the barbarian, they have the proclivity to do truly, *truly* outrageous shit. I finished up playing a human monk quite recently who was very "pro-mortal" in that he never used magic spells, items, or relied on any divine or natural magics. He didn't abhor them per say, but he didn't use them. When it came time to talk to some deities about defeating Orcus, he refused all patrons. He didn't want to "borrow" power from anyone, nor did he want to be indepted to them. Now, I had worked out with my DM for an alternative path that was notably more difficult, but I succeeded and got my end-game buff. I would not recommend this route, as its really reliant on you being more invested in the RP and being completely ok with passing up fun magical goodies, ressurections, buffs, and possibly even potions. You'll probably die. I died. Went through 2 characters. (Elf, Half-Orc and finally the human succeeded) throughout the adventure, all from the same monastery. Its arduous and dumb. If the dice gods dont favor you, don't play it. Now lets talk about the classes your race isnt suited for but are good for "god slaying". The Barbarian is the kill machine and there is no dispute that it is the very best kill machine to ever kill machine. The capstone ability literally allows you to surpass the stat thresholds because you are just the fucking kill machiney. Path of the Berserker is the most obvious choice, with Totem of the Bear at a close second with Zealot taking the bronze metal due to problems with holy classes and slaying gods I went over before. The fighter is also good at this. Because its the fighter and its good at everything. I recommend Champion, with once again the idea being that you're attempting to be so mortal, that that which is divine is mortal when around you. The Warlock is an option you fit, but I think is the weakest functionally. Even if your patron is some outer eldritch being that seeks to feast on the souls of divinity youve got four level 5 spells, and like... 3 or 4 Arcanum spells. With your level 9 probably needing to be Wish. Bladelock and Booklock fit thematically but neither is functionally better than say, a Barbarian or a Sorcerer. Finally, the Wizard (or mystic, if allowed) is a great class to try this with in the form of BECOMING a god. As I said before, The Raven Queen and Vecna are examples of mortals who sought to become divine and did. It can be done. Maybe your character doesn't much care about that power though, maybe they're more interested in reverse engineering the spell that makes men into gods so they can make gods into men. Then killing them would be considerably easier. Still. Theres a LOT of issues with this character right from the onset. You would need to have a very lengthy discussion with your DM about this quest, because it would BE a quest. Like I said, this is the endeavor of a lifetime, and would likely be the last thing your character ever does.

[@MrKangaroo123]

Heimskr, Prophet of Talos my Character through his blind rage and lust for vengeance would hate all gods equally since his wife worshipped a supposedly good goddess and was never saved. yet he would hate the bad gods because they are responsible for things such as plagues. Now I feel I should clarify somethings my character I would feel being so hell-bent on vengeance would not really think about the fact that gods are immortal just that he wants what he feels is justice now given how random the roll of the dice is my character could very well see reason at some point and end his quest for vengeance. or he could rather than wanting to actually kill gods do the next best thing in his mind which is destroying their temples and shrines so my character does not have to be a literal god slayer/Kratos. that was just bad wording on my part for which i appologise.

[@MormonDude]

First

[@MormonDude]

I can’t believe I just did that... :P