TIG Weld Aluminum with DC and 100% Argon?

[@bigtb1717]

Here is a link to a follow-up video where I use aluminum stick rods and flux core filler rods I found. kzbin.info/www/bejne/eqm0pK1-qZmMfNU

[@borashid3371]

I enjoyed this work. With an explanation of the differences and comparison between alternating current and direct current, each on an aluminum plate.. Your explanation of this device is very beautiful and your style was educated and well-experienced.. I thank you for what you presented and forward, my friend.

[@michaeldvorak5556]

When GTAW was first developed for aluminum, it was called heliarc welding. Used extensively in the 1940s and the 1950s, it required DCEN and pure helium shielding gas. In the GTAW process, the electrode negative (EN) current provides maximum penetration, which is highly desirable. Then people realized that there were advantages to using AC for aluminum GTAW.

[@comeradecoyote]

Your video is a lot more clear and concise than most on this subject, so thank you very much.

[@drcoolautofix]

So in a nutshell, Ac Tig is the best suited for aluminum and iron, this holy grail of information thanks🎉

[@MFEeee]

Great answer for the skeptics. Great answer for the experts. Perfect video

[@lnchgj]

I don't think I've ever heard this topic put so brilliantly, thanks.

[@zerolabs]

I'm strictly an amateur welder, shopping now for my 1st TIG welder to replace my cheap HF flux core machine, with the intent of welding steel and/or aluminum. This was *by far* the most detailed and concise explanation of exactly why I will want something that provides AC and DC. Thank you so much for this demonstration!

[@pabloricardodetarragon2649]

I have successfully welded aluminium with TIG DC and pure argon, but with 2 very big differences; the aluminium was preheated to 130 degrees Celsius and fluoride flux for gas welding aluminium was used. Sticks MMA for alu can be used also, it has the good flux and these sticks can be found easily. That does not replace a good AC/DC, but helps a lot for an occasional weld on aluminium to fix something fast.

[@ryanmcintosh6714]

DCEN GTAW also has merits when repairing shit chinese castings made out of old fishing tackle. While AC TIG will have you pulling your hair out over all the crap that percolates to the surface of the puddle, DC TIG or especially SMAW can frequently "get the job done" and out the door - even if there's a bit more prep. I am partial to making a dam of heavy aluminum foil around the repair area. SMAW in particular can result in a series of (hopefully) controlled "splats" rather than a good looking weld. Try using the HF start of a multiprocess welder in TIG mode with Al SMAW and be delightfully surprised. The HF start will provide a 50/50 balance to initiate the weld as well as melt the initial flux pool, allowing you to use a reasonable amperage.

[@willhansen5321]

Thank you for your excellent presentation on argon & helium DC Tig on aluminum. Also a good explanation in the comments section on spray transfer using a DC mig spool gun to aluminum

[@nathenperri2826]

Cool video, and thanks for answering my question! I completely understand why AC or helium is needed now.

[@jondavidmcnabb]

If you want to do a very interesting video that will amaze people do the following. Go grab a package of Hobart or Blue Demon Aluminum Arc Welding rods. Then do this same exact video using those flux covered rods with the DC TIG. It will amaze you and is an incredible field hack. Also if you pre-paint the area with a flux it will help.

[@the_mell0nator]

Very good video. Thoroughly explained. I love the way you compared the two!

[@wesswanson4547]

Awesome video thanks! Straight to the point and great camera angles and welding clips!

[@vgnfab]

I woke up today with this question. Thanks for answering my question so nicely!

[@sharkbaitsurfer]

That was exceptionally well done, I very much appreciate the time, effort and clarity of the video. Thank you

[@henrye718]

Thank you, Now need a video on the cheapest AC Tig welder than can weld aluminum..

[@bigtb1717]

I'll be on the lookout for an option to check out.

[@henrye718]

@@bigtb1717 Thank you.

[@bigtb1717]

I'll be reviewing a sub-$500 AC/DC TIG welder soon.

[@henrye718]

@@bigtb1717 ahh nice can't wait!

[@henrye718]

@@bigtb1717 was it a bust? The $500 Tig ac welder...

[@shawnrubel9143]

Very clear video and narration. Great job!

[@tomthompson7400]

Great video , a lot of ground covered in a short space of time.

[@Robert468us]

You can TIG with DC but you need your tip or the tungsten to be + and it will weld as good as the welds he is doing here. Be careful with the amps as you will go threw your tungsten rod pretty fast but you can get the job done ..

[@rickl6697]

Have you ever tried DC Tig with Argon but using Aluminum flux coated stick welding electrodes instead of bare Tig aluminum filler wire. Thanks

[@bigtb1717]

I haven't tried that, but I might get some to try at some point.

[@BulliKid]

Interesting video! Thanks for sharing.

[@Welder-y5x]

Thank you, at last a helpful explanation

[@NZRFoster]

Excellent video, question answered fully! Thanks

[@ryanmason9141]

Thanks for sharing these details

[@TheKornfeld]

This is such a great video, thank you so much for making it! When using DC on aluminum, if the oxide layer immediately forms and is above the molten pool of aluminum, does that oxide layer act like slag that protects the molten aluminum beneath? What happens if you don't run any shielding gas at all?

[@bigtb1717]

Unfortunately, with no shielding gas at all, the tungsten basically explodes in a shower of sparks, lol. Depending on the amperage. It's a slower, but still dramatic process at lower amperages. The TIG process itself requires shielding gas to stabilize the arc and to protect the tungsten.

[@DIYHomesteadProjectsDIYHP10]

Interesting subject and nice job on the video. With the video principal in mind, do you know why MIG aluminum welds on DC seem to work out ok? I've always wondered how a spool gun welding with DC can somehow clean away the oxides and lay down a decent weld without the AC cleaning. Maybe it has something to do with the short circuit ark? Interesting!

[@bigtb1717]

MIG welding aluminum is usually done as spray transfer. Spray transfer isn't actually short-circuit arc. As the aluminum is fed out it melts before touching the base metal and is "sprayed" in little, molten droplets at the base material by the force of the arc. MIG aluminum is usually done at 20+ volts. I imagine it's the high arc voltage combined with the characteristics of spray transfer that allows the process to break up the oxides and get a relatively consistent result.

[@DIYHomesteadProjectsDIYHP10]

@@bigtb1717 I see, interesting topic. Thanks for the insight. If you can't tell, I'm just starting to learn a little about the MIG process. Thanks again!

[@bigtb1717]

I'm always learning more as well. Also, thanks for the kind words.

[@alexweeks4203]

TB is right, aluminum MIG welding is typically in a spray transfer mode. However, what’s easy to overlook is that when MIG welding aluminum, we’re using Direct Current Electrode Positive. The reason we generally use Alternating Current for TIG welding is that we want the etching that occurs during the Electrode Positive half-cycle, but in that electrode positive Half, 70% of the arc energy (in the form of heat) is directed at the tungsten electrode and the torch, and only 30% at the work piece. So if we just used DCEP, we’d need a huge electrode and a lot more current to penetrate the same thickness of aluminum as we would on AC. We use AC most often because it allows us to have the cleaning we need during the positive half cycle, while on the negative half cycle, we get more heat into the work piece and less into the electrode and torch. For nearly all conventional MIG welding and many stick welding processes, it’s said that having the 70% of the arc’s energy at the electrode is a favorable condition, since in theory, the electrode is being subjected a high amount of energy to be melted and transferred across the arc at an extremely high temperature, while the other 30% of the energy is focused on the work piece. I know it isn’t nearly just as simple as that, especially now, but after polarity in TIG welding was explained to me in school, LOTS of other things finally started to make sense to me. Hopefully that makes sense. I wondered the same thing for quite a while!

[@DIYHomesteadProjectsDIYHP10]

@@alexweeks4203 Thanks Alex, now that you've explained that to me it makes perfectly good sense. I suppose it would be fair to think that MIG welding aluminum won't get the penetration that TIG welding aluminum would.? Now that I think of it, MIG welding compared to TIG welding in general with the exception of flux core mig would have less penetration due to the DCEP polarity.

[@cec4]

what polarity did you run the dc tig on aluminum? ive heard if you run on reverse instead of straight polarity with a much larger tungstun you can weld up to 40-80 aps with dc acting as all cleaning, problems being the arc is hard to control because of the lack of a pount and the tungstun gets very very hot hence why you have to use a much larger one and at lower amps. not advised but i think my old welding teacher said this is how aluminum tig was originaly done, but i cant remember if it was with argon al well as helium or just helium. would be cool to see tho unless thats what you did but im thinking not since you will melt anything smaller then a 1/8 tungstun

[@bigtb1717]

I used electrode negative for all the DC welding in this video. Never heard of using electrode positive for aluminum. As you say, at anything other than low amps you would be blasting away your tungsten. You'd probably overheat an air cooled torch pretty quick too. But maybe it's good for thin aluminum if you don't have AC because of the reduced heat put into the part on DCEP. Either way, I don't doubt that it happened. Just about everything in welding has a following of people who swear by it. I know a lot of aluminum TIG welding used to be done with large transformer machines on standard 60Hz AC. This gave a 50/50 balance. They had to use a continuous high-frequency box to keep the arc from going out as the AC sinewave crossed zero. Because of the 50/50 balance, the electrode would ball up, and that's how they would run it. Once inverters and new tungsten alloys came along it became possible to run a pointed tungsten on aluminum. I used to see debates about pointed vs. balled tungsten for aluminum. I'm sure there are still people out there who intentionally ball their tungsten with a short blip of DCEP before welding on AC with their inverters.

[@cec4]

@@bigtb1717 now that I think of it I think the fabrication series did a couple videos on this lol as for balling the tungstun that's what the old timers would swear by but I tied it and found much better luck with the smallest balling amount possible, for a more focused arc

[@alexweeks4203]

@@cec4 I use Zirconiated Tungsten for all AC Welding because 1) it never forms weird shapes, it carries a lot of current and when it balls, it does so nicely and doesn’t spit into the weld ; and 2) It gives me one box of tungsten that’s just for aluminum or AC welding and one for everything else. It seems like I end up doing less grinding that way for some reason lol

[@1212CRMD]

Nice lesson about it. Thank you!

[@Channel-se3yq]

How about thin aluminum with electrode positive in argon?

[@hardergamer]

I have had amazing results welding alu with DC TIG, and without using any gas at all! (for the welder) But it was costly, but soon it will be much much cheaper with Musk's Starship, the main problem was getting to the Moon and back.

[@rivernet62]

With the price of helium, going into space might even be cheaper. Don’t burn a hole in your suit!

[@alangrant5278]

Would be handy to work in a vacuum chamber

[@bayoutrapper]

Lmao

[@damirivancic4964]

it can be done tig but with stick electrod i think?

[@MrKevinstlucia]

I love your reviews. Please do try welding aluminum on DC- 100% argon with an aluminum arc rod. I use it regularly for welding broken cast aluminum parts , not the prettiest but runs good penetration with very little porosity. My concern however is about PPE safety so please do give a try

[@bigtb1717]

I do plan to try DC- with 100% argon and aluminum stick rods, as well as flux. Not sure when I'll get to it, but it's on the list. Cheers!

[@bruced1429]

I decided some time ago to just use my spoil gun on my Esab or the mig gun on my Fronius to weld aluminum. this works well for me down to 1/8 aluminum. since I rarely need to weld thinner aluminum I don;t need to tig aluminum. What I really use my tig torch for silicon bronze with 100 % argon.. You did a good comparison of dc to ac. I believe i have seen a argon/helium mix to tig aluminum on dc but I have never done it myself, maybe somebody out there has done it at work and could comment.

[@bigtb1717]

I've never used 100% helium, but I have tried 75% argon, 25% helium. Works good on AC to give that little bit of extra heat. On DC I couldn't really tell a difference between that and 100% argon, but it was only 25% helium.

[@anthonyprovost9701]

AC tig heliarc is for aircraft sheet metal building tools for aircraft using DC TIG USE ARGON OR HELIUM so that you don't have to heat up the entire fixture.

[@Trump985]

I bet this (DC TIG with argon) would work great in a glovebox. If you purged the box and then cleaned the parts and filler rods in the box in an inert atmosphere. I might have to try it myself someday.

[@bigtb1717]

Interesting idea. Do you do TIG welding in a glove box already? I suppose if you were able to remove the oxide layer in an inert environment, it wouldn't form a new layer. I suppose if you have a purgeable glove box capable of TIG welding inside, it might be fun to try.

[@Trump985]

@@bigtb1717 I have used a glovebox for TIG welding before, especially when welding odd shaped parts made of stainless steel or inconel that would be extremely difficult to back gas or even use a trailing cup on. When welding titanium it’s almost always done in a glovebox, unless the parts are shaped such that they can easily be shielded on both sides in the open. I personally hate welding in a glovebox, but sometimes it’s the only “practical” solution. Sure you could spend all day making some sort of fixture to shield an odd shaped part, but that wouldn’t make any sense when you can just throw it in a glovebox.

[@BudMasta]

Sweet video, never got to test stuff like this during my schooling. Have you tested dual shield flux core penetration vs regular mig or flux core only in small portable welders?

[@bigtb1717]

I've tested penetration of MIG and self-shielded flux core in several small welders, but I haven't done a specific comparison. In my experience, self-shielded flux core definitely get's more penetration in a small welder than gas shielded solid wire MIG, all else being equal. I haven't tested penetration for dual shield. Maybe I should do a comparison video of all three. Could be fun.

[@BudMasta]

@@bigtb1717 I have seen that some of the commonly sold flux core wire isnt recommended for multi pass welds, so no clue how much more effective dual shield could be for a lil 110 for actual practical use. Interesting though for sure.

[@bigtb1717]

​@@BudMasta Dual shield requires a fair bit of voltage, so I don't know that it would run well on most 120V MIG welders. I think 20-21 volts is around the bare minimum of voltage for 0.035" dual shield, so it would probably be pushing it for a 120V MIG machine. Could be interesting to try it.

[@BudMasta]

@@bigtb1717 ahh, didnt even know about needing more voltage. Darn!

[@bigtb1717]

It may still work, but it would likely be right on the edge.

[@kundangupta999]

guru you are so helpful

[@IGoProEVERYTHING]

Does anyone know what the most inexpensive aluminum TIG machine is?

[@mehdivafa6127]

pls test welding with current DCEP

[@bigtb1717]

Can't say exactly when I'll get around to it, but I do plan to try that in a video at some point. The main issue running DCEP is that the electrode will burn up very quickly. So it will require a large electrode and low current, but it will be interesting to see how it goes. Cheers!

[@backyardbasher]

You can get respectable welds using dc tig with argon using flux covered aluminium welding rods its messy with lots of flux but works ok.

[@bigtb1717]

I actually have a box of them ready for a follow up video!

[@ButBigger42]

But why are you using a number 12 cup on aluminum? It says on the box not to use those cups on AC. Other than that, excellent video, good sir.

[@bigtb1717]

That was just what I had set up and to be fair, I was on DC for half the video, lol. I'm pretty sure they say not to use them on AC because AC puts a lot more heat into the cup and they're not rated to hold up to the additional heat. But I wasn't using a ton of amperage and wasn't doing super long welds. So it was no big deal. I'm sure the large cup size meant I was using a bit more gas than I needed to. Again, I wasn't super worried about that. As long as I was getting good coverage, I didn't feel the need to swap cups.

[@tigranohanyan3321]

I heard that because argon DC welding on thick aluminum penetrates better, but the look is horrible. So after the first DC layer second AC layer can be done for nice finished look. How about that?

[@bigtb1717]

As far as I am aware, DC welding on thick aluminum is normally done using helium shielding gas, not argon. The helium results in a hotter arc, and combined with the DC current results in greater penetration. The helium also cuts through the oxide layer better and from what I've, seen the puddle flows and reacts better with helium than with argon on DC. Personally, if I had access to AC, I'd just use that and turn up the amps for whatever thickness I was welding. If I needed to weld something thick and needed extra penetration, I'd just get some helium. But that's just me. I imagine a pass with AC over a crusty looking DC weld would clean it up, so I suppose that's an option. If it works for someone and gets the job done, that's cool.

[@fredymredy]

New to tig welding hereand i have a question, if i want to weld aluminium i need AC Tig Welder not DC Tig Welder? I still dont understand the difference which one to choose?

[@bigtb1717]

Correct. If you want to weld aluminum with a TIG welder, you will want a welder that can do AC TIG.

[@fredymredy]

@@bigtb1717 and if i want to use it for other metals, can i use the AC Welder? Or i need DC Welder for it?

[@bigtb1717]

@@fredymredy Modern, AC TIG welders can also do DC.

[@fredymredy]

@@bigtb1717 Thank you.

[@ddd7928]

Dc tig with argon is run DCEP ... then it welds just fine. You need a big 1/8 electrode and you have to watch your amps or you just burn out your tugnstun quick... its best suited for 1/8 al and under

[@engjds]

Ok, but I am puzzled why DC Mig works with Aluminium, is it because its stabbing the oxide covered pool?

[@bigtb1717]

MIG is a very different process. With MIG, the filler is the electrode. Aluminum MIG is a spray transfer process where the filler metal itself creates the arc. The filler metal is then turned into little droplets that are "sprayed" at the aluminum by the force of the arc. The very nature of the process breaks up and blasts through the oxide layer.

[@engjds]

@@bigtb1717 Ahh, thats interesting, so all Aluminium welding is done on the higher voltage spray transfer rather than short circuit or dropplet?

[@bigtb1717]

@@engjds I guess I can't say it's always spray. It could be globular. It's been a long time since I've looked into the details. But I don't think it's ever technically short circuit. I don't think it takes as much voltage to reach globular or spray transfer as steel does. I'd have to look into it to remind myself of all the details. But it's overall a very different process than TIG and behaves differently.

[@engjds]

@@bigtb1717 Hi mate, I got a comment from another welder, which makes interesting an explanation, here it is...Aluminum MIG is run on DCEP (Electrode Positive), which is the part of the TIG AC cycle that does all the cleaning. This puts the majority of the heat into the electrode rather than the workpiece. Since the MIG electrode is consumed and added into the weld puddle, it carries that heat energy back into the weld anyway. With TIG, running DC electrode positive puts too much heat into the non-consumed electrode for it to keep its shape and too little heat into the material. For this reason, the TIG polarity has to switch between electrode positive for cleaning and electrode negative to put heat in the material. Seems to make sense, though maybe you are right as well, and the spray transfer has an effect!

[@bigtb1717]

Ah, yes. Electrode positive is used for Aluminum MIG as well. Like I said, it's been too long since I messed with Aluminum MIG.

[@4638000]

Thank you. Very clear and to the 👉

[@silasowen24]

Have you tried the forney 140 mp? I'm curious of what your thoughts on it are

[@bigtb1717]

I don't have any experience with that machine.

[@turbovicsatx2910]

How do you get rid of the specs in the weld

[@lancetyler3872]

Just watched your video i have a new maxstar that has high frequency my welds look like marhmellows how do i make it look shinny

[@bigtb1717]

Maxstar series has high frequency start, but not AC output current, which is what you need for aluminum welding. The Maxstar series is DC only.

[@trey1531]

How does a spool gun get away with welding aluminum with DC?

[@bigtb1717]

Aluminum MIG is a much different, more aggressive process. The filler metal itself creates the arc and in turn the filler is turned into tiny, molten droplets that travel along the arc and into the base metal. The process itself tends to break up the oxide layer.

[@blueelectricfusion]

but ehat about high frequency dc tig? 😮😅

[@AlanAguillon-cf7im]

Thnkyou bro

[@datadavis]

I've seen marginally better results with pulse tig, still completely horrible compared to nice old miller 400A ac machines with ArHe gas. Which i love 💕

[@ryanb1874]

You "Can " do it but is it that right. Would shipbuilders, or Even just structural fabricators trust it. I heard you need a machine that cycles the current to some way higher value and dip for a cycling action that gets rid of the oxide

[@datadavis]

@@ryanb1874 Any liquid cooled high amp squarewave ac machine will do really. Whats most important is the helium mixed argon, it allows more energy transfer in the plasma arc

[@garypostell5268]

Do it on DC but use Helium

[@anthonyprovost9701]

Use helium and you don't need as much penetration but you will have to preheat larger sections of Aluminum to be able to get your parts hot enough to weld on AC

[@martinpetersen6266]

how is it with reversing polarity on the DC and then using Argon?

[@bigtb1717]

Running DC electrode positive positive burns up the electrode pretty quickly. It might be usable at very low amperages. I may make another video about DC TIG on aluminum where I use helium, DC positive with argon and try using flux. Just to see how all those different methods work.

[@martinpetersen6266]

@@bigtb1717 yea.. what ive gathered is that it is doable with DCEP pulse of 2,2 and a thick electrode and short runs. still have to test run it etc though. The pulse is to cool the rod and the EP is to remove the ox layer as well. tried to stick weld DCEP (only option), but wasn't very successful. thanks for the reply. here i could buy a new AC welder for the price of running helium so... yea :)

[@thurlravenscroft2572]

Seems like DC pulse TIG DCEN should give you a similar result as AC.

[@bigtb1717]

Unfortunately not. It's the periods of electrode positive polarity that breaks up and repels the oxide layer on the aluminum, not just the current fluctuation.

[@thurlravenscroft2572]

@@bigtb1717 I misstated that. I meant DCEP so that the electrons flow out of the metal and toward the electrode in HF pulses.

[@bigtb1717]

Yeah, I may try that in a video. The only issue is that you'd have to use really low current, because very much current on DCEP will nuke the tungsten.

[@Eoin2190]

what type tig torch is that ?

[@bigtb1717]

It is a Weld-Tec stubby torch. It's my favorite TIG torch. I don't have the steadiest hands and this small, rubber handled, lightweight, air-cooled torch is my favorite, overall torch. I'm sure some with flex heads would be more versatile, but this is still my favorite to use.

[@JStorm24]

You're supposed to use helium on DC- ultra pure helium

[@Hammerjockeyrepair]

You didn’t say if you were running dcep or dcen

[@bigtb1717]

DCEN. Electrode positive would burn away the tungsten fairly quickly.

[@robertblackshear8963]

One answer to the problem. 100% HELIUM. YOU'RE WELCOME LOL.

[@nicholasherrick2773]

Yeah you get better pen too but argon is easier and everyone has it if they have Tig some people might not have the room for another gas bottle

[@robertblackshear8963]

@@nicholasherrick2773 Agreed. Lol

[@dhall5634]

Wonder why mig welding aluminum with 100% argon works so well

[@bigtb1717]

Just down to it being such a different process. Aluminum MIG is a globular or spray transfer process where the filler metal itself creates the arc and is blasted into the base metal. It's a much more aggressive process that breaks up the oxide layer by its very nature.

[@IGoProEVERYTHING]

How does a spool gun weld with DC?

[@bigtb1717]

The process is very different. Rather than creating an arc via a tungsten electrode to melt the base metal, the aluminum wire itself is creating the arc while also becoming molten and "spraying" across the arc to the base metal.

[@pete-mz9vr]

What cover is that on tig touch?

[@bigtb1717]

That is a Weld-Tec, stubby torch. It doesn't have a cover on it.

[@autoweldandpaintingfabrication]

ui have no a pedal controller?

[@bigtb1717]

Sorry, I'm not sure what you are asking. I was using a foot pedal to control amperage.

[@markrainford1219]

I'd like to see someone welding using a disposable helium balloon canister. They are not too expensive just for the experience.

[@bigtb1717]

If you are talking about those little bottles you can get in department stores ($30-$40), they are not very pure are would only have enough helium for a few minutes of welding. Even if you were to rig up a hose to a regulator (might be tough, depending on the pressure in the tank) or just try to manually regulate flow with the valve on the tank, I think the fact that they only advertise as being 80% helium is the main issue. With 20% being just "air" you would likely get terrible contamination.

[@autoweldandpaintingfabrication]

dont mention what size of tungsten rod

[@bigtb1717]

3/32" tungsten. 3/32" 4043 filler rod.

[@autoweldandpaintingfabrication]

Ok thank you!

[@georgiojansen7758]

dcen or dcep

[@bigtb1717]

I used DCEN. DCEP would burn away the electrode very quickly at anything other than very low amperage.

[@jarcordova]

best aluminum weld ever

[@Sunshine22232]

O g . just use spool gun 🤔👍

[@GameOverRank1]

fuck my life... thx for explaining and showing why DC + argon is so shit. i just bought a DC tig welder for my workshop to fix cracked alloy rims. and it cant fix them lol it looks exactly like you DC argon welds + i got the problem that the wire in the tig welder melts away or melts into a ball even on the lowest setting.......

[@jolujo5842]

Argon DOES NOT work on aluminum!!! Helium only.

[@bigtb1717]

With an AC TIG welder, argon works just fine. As shown in this video, when running DC TIG, argon does not work well.

[@kundangupta999]

can you give hindi pronunciation master

[@abdeljalilpr2033]

:(