Tim Keller and American Neo-Calvinism

[@mangs9940]

In the book , Tim Keller apparently discusses influencing the structures of society in his book Center Church: Doing Balanced, Gospel-Centered Ministry in Your City. Keller emphasizes the importance of engaging with and influencing the broader culture, including the social, political, and economic structures of society. He advocates for a model of ministry that not only focuses on individual transformation through the gospel but also seeks to impact the cultural and societal structures in a way that reflects the kingdom of God. In Center Church, Keller outlines a vision for how churches can engage with the culture in three primary ways: countercultural community, civic engagement, and cultural renewal. He encourages churches to actively participate in the public square, to advocate for justice, and to work towards the common good of the city. This involves influencing the systems and structures of society to promote human flourishing, which Keller argues is part of the church's mission. Keller believes that Christians should seek to influence society's structures by promoting justice, mercy, and truth in every sphere, from politics to education to the arts. However, he also cautions against being overly aligned with any particular political agenda, instead advocating for a nuanced and gospel-centered approach to societal engagement. Sounds great, but I dont think the bible calls us to try and make an unwilling pagan city society good. Yes we are to do good things to our neighbours and the people we make contact wih. But the church is a life raft , rather than a cruise ship. We are calling sinners to repentance and faith. We are snatching people destined for judgement , to life and peace with God. In the end God changes hearts and makes dead people live. Saying that Christians are better people , also distorts the bible message.

[@gregoryperry268]

Thank you for this exploration of Tim’s journey from implicit to explicit neo-Calvinism via Vos, Kline, Clowney and Conn. it would be helpful also to explore the relationship between the thought of Lesslie Newbigin and neo-Calvinism in Tim’s thought and ministry.

[@DadHominem]

Great presentation. Keller's ability to communicate theological complexities to the masses will keep his name in the forefront for decades - as well it should. The only exceptions I take to Keller's perspectives on living a Christian life in all we do is his support of a US political party that advocates killing children up to the point of birth. That's a non-starter for me, though I understand that mine is an ever-shrinking viewpoint. I also disagree with Keller that one US political party better exemplifies God's justice than another. I would argue that one party promises to exemplify it, but those promises are forgotten the day after each and every election. Both major US political parties are bought and paid for by wealthy interests.

[@HearGodsWord]

I never came across such views in any of his sermons.

[@Mike-qt7jp]

Sorry for this response being so long, but it is needed. 1. Revelation 22:17 says, “Whosoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.” Calvinism, however, says it actually means: The ones I (God) chose, will take of the water of life. 2. John 3:16 says, “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” Calvinism, however, says this verse actually means: For God so loved the ones He chose, that He gave His only begotten Son, that those He chose WILL have everlasting life. 3. Joshua 24:15 says, “…choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve…But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” Calvinism, however, says this verse actually means: There is no choice, rather, God will decide whether or not one will serve the Lord. 4. 2nd Peter 3:9 says, “The Lord is…not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.” Calvinism, however, says this verse actually means: The Lord is not willing that any of the ones He has chosen should perish, but that all of the ones He has chosen should come to repentance. 5. Matthew6:8-10 says, “…therefore, pray: Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done.” This is a prayer. If God’s will was already being done as per Calvinism, then why do we need to pray that it will happen? 6. Hebrews 3:12-14 says, “Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end…” This is a call to not harden our hearts and depart from the living God, and to hold our confidence in Christ steadfast until the end. According to Calvinism, we can’t make that decision; God has already decided. 7. John 1:29 says, “The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!” Calvinism, however, says this verse actually means: The Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the few that God has chosen. 8. 1st Timothy 1:15 says, “This is a faithful saying …that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners…” Calvinism, however, says this verse actually means: Jesus came into the world to save (ONLY) the sinners God has already chosen. 9. 1ST John 19 says, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” Calvinism says, this verse really means, the ones He has chosen WILL confess their sins, and He is faithful and just to forgive them their sins and to cleanse them from all unrighteousness. Calvinism calls confession a synergistic work; meaning a work of faith added to what God has already done. Also, there is no IF in Calvinism. 10. Revelation 3:20 says, “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.” Calvinism says, this verse really means, “…when the one I have chosen hears my voice, he will open the door…” 11. Luke 13:3 says, “…unless you repent, you too will all perish.” It doesn’t say, “it doesn’t matter if you repent UNLESS I have already chosen you.” In Jeremiah 7 God says, "People built places to sacrifice their children (in fire) to foreign gods, and He (God) says, "I did NOT COMMAND this, nor did it enter my mind." So, who do we believe, Jeff Durbin, RC Sproul, James White, John Piper or God Almighty and His Holy Word, the Bible? So, while God does predestine some things, this verse clearly says NOT everything. It's like a university predestining a football team (they WILL have a team next season) but giving free will to players themselves to decide whether or not to come out for that team. God, in His Sovereignty, has the POWER to give mankind a certain degree of free will to choose to follow or reject Him and His Christ. This free will, given to man by God, started in the garden when God said to Adam and Eve, "You can eat from any tree in the garden except the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil." God did NOT say, "You MUST eat from all of the trees except the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil," rather He gave them a choice to eat from whatever trees they chose, except that one specific tree. And by the way, they CHOSE to disobey and eat from the very tree God said not to.

[@StevenLascombe]

If you like to choose that much, then have your free will, choose Jesus everyday of your life . good luck with that and see you up there. 😂

[@Mike-qt7jp]

@@StevenLascombe Did I say anything that was not true?

[@TheRomans9Guy]

Well, and then they get Romans and Ephesians and John completely wrong too. I mean, where do you end the list?

[@andrewchamberlin8180]

​@Mike-qt7jp Read John 8, and then tell me about the "why" they choose the "who or what" they choose.

[@frankmcgovern9773]

If God does not choose, then no one will chose then what does Romans3:10-17 mean?