Tim Shieff Vegan Again? My Honest Thoughts

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[@SebAlex]

What do you think about basing one's diet and ethical stance on the teachings of a spiritual group? How do you feel about Tim's apology video? Let me know!

[@shellsangel7953]

I think 'teachings' can impart knowledge, guidance, but not true morality. I think we must look inside to know that, and the problem is, most people don't know how.

[@jenerlee]

When he first started with the ... unusual ideas, I overlooked the red flags, but by now, Tim is red flag central. He needs to get some professional mental health assistance ASAP. I remember his mum in one of the videos after or during his insane water fast (for toe fungus, seriously..) - and she was so concerned about his health. It seems to me that this group is cutting him off from his family, and that's very unfortunate, if they do really love him. On one of his first "I'm no longer vegan" videos, I sent a message along the lines of "I hope you get all the help you need". Sadly, I don't think he has. If these people are using his fame/money for themselves while selling Tim some kind of solution to all that ails him, they should be locked up. 😡 He seems a genuinely lost individual, and that just makes me sad. I've met a few of the people who worked with him (vegan days), who cut contact when he stopped being vegan - so much confusion and frustration. I still wish him all the best.

[@karlstenator]

Oh no... Not Tim Shieff doing the rounds again... Like, I get it - he's a train-wreck/car-crash and you can't help but look. But he's been a wreck for how many years now? I wouldn't consider him to be low hanging fruit, more like the rotted fruit on the ground. You're too good for him and can do better @SebAlex.

[@Akash_Vegan]

I would venture that he is, and was always, looking for a space of unconditional support, which usually manifests as a cult, or indeed, any ideology not based on reason. He thought veganism was one such space.

[@CeravvvEgan]

He is still seeing veganism as a diet, not an animal rights issue. No mention of the animals at all. He has swapped being dogmatic about his plant based diet, to being dogmatic about his new cult.

[@adhiantos]

"The main core message of veganism is based on logic, not based on faith" This is spot on Seb. I'm speechless listening to his explanations to be honest. I don't get anything out of it 😅😅

[@drsalka]

@jonahwhale9047 👏👏👆this one right here :)) nice! ;)

[@adhiantos]

@jonahwhale9047 Interesting take! I do know some people who are vegetarian since birth due to religious reasons. When I told them that I don't want to eat animals cause I think their suffering and life is not worth that 10-15 seconds of taste on my tongue, they said I'm too extreme haha. So yeah I think to some people it might purely be a faith element.

[@adhiantos]

@jonahwhale9047 Well said! Yeah some people don't know what goes behind the scenes of animal agriculture. I think to make someone really adopt veganism is to really show them behind the scenes. Asking people "not to kill animals for food" may sometimes me something highly superficial to them. I do also know people who are born vegetarian but ended up eating meat after they're older/leave their parents behind 😅

[@thebowandbullet]

I'll give him credit for apologizing for throwing veganism under the bus when his extreme, non-vegan lifestyle failed him (predictably). However, he's still not vegan. He's 100% focused on himself and his own well-being. He sees himself -- and only himself -- as the victim. He never even mentions non-human animals. It's not a shock to anyone that he's suffering from mental issues, but the odds that this cult will fix those is slim. When the cult fails him, will he once again blame veganism? Probably. He's not logical or compassionate, and he still hasn't bothered to look up the very simple definition of veganism.

[@davidsan9583]

1. eat plant based ( no- meat, milk, egg, etc ) is partly, vegan ( reduce animal suffering ). 2. who talks sometimes, just about plant based ( not, diet : die at / die by ), is activism. 3. not say, no-n human animals. humans are gods ( creat-ors ). no animal can tele-kinesis. and some, as flys, mosquitos, do not logic-think, ( always come, even if one try to hit them, many times ). - 4. church ( corrupt for 100s + years. as past-government ), forbid magic-use. 5. and, witches ( magic-knowledge-books ) were burned, as books in general. 6. prediction for 2030 from wef with governments, everyone owns nothing. 7. their examples, house/home, cloth/any protections, car/even bicycle. i add, books, teaching places ). - 8-10. by side of all govern-ment(al) crimes, what many internet-vegans support ( a. climate, b. gender, c.1 all are the same, all is, against- human-ity / god-ity. a. reduce- feeling-experiences-with-mind and b. god-population, and c. get easy control-dictatorship. c.2 all at birth, are neutral, and can learn everything, but after years or even months, "we" are very different, can have connection as tele-pathy, affect each other by our doings, and makes fun and teaching, be different. - 11-12. tran - ny / LGBTetc -flag, has 6, missing light-blue for truth, see 6. of chakra. has red/life-basic on top, not below. 13. rain-bow from nature, has 7 color ). and 14. dark blue is imagination, if videos, T.el e/a V.ision, etc ( owned by big banks as blackrock/rulers,, shows bad, bad things will real-ised. - 14. focus on one-self, is first / most-important ( without you/natural-correct-set-ego, there is no you , as puppet ). 15. i respect animals, "humans", and plants, ( sometimes i bring fly etc out of my room ), 16. i think, not just because of my name, david means, be-loved. 17. but i learned, be in balance with all, in a logical way, is sustainable. 18. everyone have, ego/thinking in mind, abilities, and soul/ghost. some say, ghost uses abilities, how-ever ). 19. be carfuly, in corrupt /satan`s world, in our home, called earth or mid-gard or even as-gard ( garden of gods ).

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

​@@davidsan9583huh? Your comment is incoherent

[@Kayte...]

Whoa, nothing like calling the kettle black. You could do with a dose of compassion yourself.

[@elian2723]

Hi Seb, I really liked this video and the way you respectfully state your opinion ❤ I was vegetarian for about 30 years, because I was not ready to really learn about the veganism. Now I’m vegan for more than 7 years, and I could never go back to not being vegan because for me it’s about the animals and not about me. What I’m missing also in this apology is that Tim keeps talking about a vegan diet, and this is where he misses the point! because it’s not about a diet! if a person truly live a vegan lifestyle, the definition of veganism: "Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude-as far as is possible and practicable-all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment.” You cannot go back and forth, because if you do, you truly do not know in your heart what veganism is about. Tim was a big inspiration for me when I first became vegan, and for him to eat animals because he didn’t feel okay was such a disappointment to me and I could not understand him, because I truly thought he was vegan, but he was not! If he was he would have found answers about his health without hurting animals and the vegan community. So for me this apology is BS and his “veganism” is temporary because he is still not feeling veganism in his heart but now again falls is escape-ism through some sort of “cult” which makes him feel better probably temporarily until again he finds something wrong with that! All right that was such a long opinion from me🙈 I’m just really passionate about this subject. Thank you so much Seb for all that you do, I really appreciate you✨💜☮️

[@watch-Dominion-2018]

Tim didn't quit veganism only because of drinking his urine. He didn't eat anything for 40 days, stared directly at the sun thinking he was getting energy that way, and instead of drinking water he would drink his and other peoples' urine. He went from being an inspiring healthy glowing young man, to looking like a dried up cadaver in the space of a month due to the aforementioned "fast" he did. He then blamed veganism and vegans for this, and then spent years experimenting with all kinds of other dangerous health-wrecking things under the guise of "trying to get healthy", not ever realising that the healthiest he ever was was right before he stopped eating back in 2016. Before then his eyes were so full of life and spark, but he lost that during his starvation month, and still to this day I see his eyes are dead. He's clearly lacking nootrients that are only found on a plant-based diet. He looks like a withered grandpa now, compared to when he was vegan and looked brimming with life force and energy

[@MaynardsSpaceship]

Honestly. I don't even think supervised fasting long term is an issue. I followed Dr. Alan Goldhamer's advise and it save me. Of course most people that won't bother to look deeper will be freaked out. The rest of it, though? Yikes, man. Throw it in the fire.

[@hardcoreherbivore4730]

The problem was that he didn’t suntan his sphincter enough. 😂

[@veganevolution]

I feel like a need for engagingis a taboo is paradoxically condoned in the normalization of eating dead bodies. When vegans give that up, there is a need for flthat same freedom, to engage in "taboo". Sex,weed, psychedelics and extreme peace activism.

[@julienfroidevaux1143]

The guy has mental health issues . It's rather sad .

[@Kayte...]

​@jonahwhale9047Well said. And I feel bad for the comments here that lack empathy and understanding what childhood stress and trauma causes to our gut or organs related to the trauma. And we all process it differently, even in the same family. A Highly Sensitive Person like myself processed the negative screaming and negative criticism and threats differently than my siblings. I was in a state of fear growing up from my mother and I was almost 50 before I stopped believing that other adults and people in power ( boss, police, adults in general,etc) weren't thinking the same thing about me that my mother did. Also having a father only physically present didn't help with other emotional development. I have many food sensitivities I'm assuming from a leaky gut developed from living in fear for so many years. Emotional stress kills.

[@nommh]

Tim Shieff was on a Rich Roll podcast and since then I loosely followed him. His athleticism was fascinating through all his weird bizarre nutritional ideas. I never felt myself to be dogmatic because I‘m vegan. It just is the best way to eat. Thanks for this video. You are so right about the logic and ethics of veganism. I‘m so sick of people telling me how much they love animals, because they are flooded with warm feelings when they see a cute puppy while putting milk of a tortured cow in their coffee.

[@vderak1]

Why do they call themselves vegan when they mention nothing about the animals? They were plant based and then blame vegan "diet?". Not a diet!

[@PlantBasedPrimary]

Ego is strong with this one. He should try spending some time outside his own head.

[@d.rabbitwhite]

Maybe some vipassana?

[@BeesAndSunshine]

I'm confused by what he means by "vegan diet". There is no vegan diet, veganism isn't a list of recommendations for eating healthy. There are many diets which vegans eat, some healthy and some not.

[@amla6517]

Exactly!!! Well said!!! They keep saying vegan diet over and over like as if, it is some kind of super strict diet! When we have the junk food vegan, whole food plant based vegan, raw vegan. Especially now, there are so many processed vegan junk food (of course not healthy)...but vegan first for the animals, and then it is up to the individual what type of vegan food they want to eat. I just get annoyed when people use the word vegan diet because they make it sound like it is an extreme diet that tortures people! 😂

[@animalsarebeautifulpeople3094]

💯

[@v.a.n.e.]

you're right, a vegan diet is not a healthy diet, in fact it never was, but it seems that he believed in the "vegan diet can be suitable for people of all stages of life, including pregnancy, infancy and old age" mantra, which have been repeatedly denied by generations and generations of former vegans. however, it's not his fault, he's just gullible and believes everything he hears

[@bgrune1]

I almost feel sorry For Tim. He's still deeply deluded and searching for meaning. I agree with Seb Alex that this latest tack towards veganism is likely not to last as it is not grounded in reason and ethics.

[@drsalka]

I live in Slovenia, I can travel SW and get to Rome in a couple of hours. Someone living in Stockholm can travel S and get to Rome. Tim can travel from UK in a SE direction and get to Rome eventually. All three of us can choose our preferred mode of transportation depending on which one we like more or what we can afford at a given time. ... Does it matter how we get there? Is there any reason to believe someone from Slovenia will stay in Rome longer/for life vs. someone from the UK? People go and stay vegan for *emotional* (= non-reason) 'reasons' all the time. I'm not the one to tell them they should change that because it works for them, the movement, and most importantly for animals that are spared because of them.

[@marley7659]

I am sorry. Tim shieff needs to go to a medical ward and properly get off the woo woo train

[@d.rabbitwhite]

the pull of woo is strong, especially with emotionally neediness being a factor.

[@davidsan9583]

1. magic ( creation by people/creators ) is life-basic, 1.2 but stay, little away of bad things, but know them, is wisely-sustainable. 2. never forget, most corrupt thing, church, did forbid magic-use, long ago. ah. 2.2 or since when are VEGANS, so for limits ( feel bad ), and so not for freedom at everything ( few feeling-life-experiences ) ? 3. balance is needed, but not a full restriction, 3.2 what only serves rulers for hiding the control / suppression -system. - govern-ment(al) and religions, in their school, etc , say, stay calm and still. but is called, Energy - MOITON. how baby is made ? by feeling /emotion, not by be very degenerated/old ( lazy, boring, frustrated & hatful ). this magic is possible, but not more, and not be feelings ? tele- kinesis, pathy etc , and see future, to a certain degree, is not the creat-ors-ability ? there is no god, and stay calm, is heared often this days, ( serves rulers/few, not you ).

[@antibreeder1m]

Thank you. It's a hard job to keep people who keep slipping accountable! We can only be there and present for them, sometimes that's the best we can do. I hope you are having immensely purposeful fun with your lecturing, and other activism.

[@SebAlex]

thank you my friend!

[@DrFarazHarsini]

This was a great video! Just like you I appreciate that he accepted that he made a mistake and he apologized. That by itself is pretty rare. I also agree that if you don't look at it as an ethical and logical standpoint, you may go back to being not vegan again.

[@christopherdamien2248]

Dear Seb, thank you for your clarirty, for your serenity, and, yes, I shall say it, for your wisdom. The common denominator for all vegan or veganistic paths is the core position on animal rights, i.e., on the moral standing of animals, independent of the variability and mutabilitiy of human motives for choosing to adopt said position. Human motives may change; animal rights are part of the ethical structure of the cosmos (in my way of thinking and being). Thank you, Seb, for your serenity and your compassionate approach to the issues at work in this video. Ahimsa, ahimsa, ahimsa...

[@animalsarebeautifulpeople3094]

I dont really think veganism is such a difficult concept. There are children who go vegan and convince their family to go vegan like Genesis. Just dont harm animals. Dont use them for anything against their will. You dont want to be harmed neither do animals. Its not some complicated philosophy you need to read books for. Its just common sense decency.

[@v.a.n.e.]

veganism is a simple concept, but the justification is intricate. some would say irrational

[@animalsarebeautifulpeople3094]

​@@v.a.n.e.why are you still stuffing your face with tortured fkesh? TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED. There's no justification for your flesh ghoul existence

[@mylesraymond7364]

I honestly feel bad for the guy-he seems like a lost soul, almost childlike, just aimlessly going from one thing to the next in hopes of filling the sad hole in his heart. Yeah, he may have found his way back to veganism, sort of, but it won’t last. You know it won’t last.

[@tamcon72]

I think he's childlike in his desire to believe in all kinds of things out of general liking of people, and that is admirable in some ways. But it does make one susceptible to being easily led, and misled. I have thought for a while that he's got mental problems, not just naïvete.

[@carinagatta]

I was recently following him for fitness reasons, having no idea about his vegan journey … Then I came to learn about this when I saw Ido Portal’s (extremely ignorant LOL) comments about not seeing vegans as healthy or having enough energy LOL. Anyhoo, from his letter, you can tell that his reasons for being “vegan” are not deeply rooted (if at all rooted) in an ethical position toward animals. Also, it’s clear that he struggled to nail the right vegan diet for him. All people (vegan or not vegan) need to experiment and find the right balance of nutrients / foods / meals that feed them most optimally, and that might be different than whatever the influencers are promoting. I know my vegan diet has changed significantly over my multi year journey, depending on the season of my life, fitness routines, life routings, changing tastes, etc. Never have I been more solidly committed to veganism and encouraging others to embrace the vegan lifestyle. Not only for health, physical and mental and emotional health, but for the animals and the planet. Thank you for your work and your channel!!!

[@DanielBarber-mo2en]

Actually I think there is a deep aspect to veganism. When I say deep I mean beyond logic , good / bad ext. I know logic is good too but , the reason many don't stick , with logic aspect is because of this deeper dimension. There is a meta physical aspect, for example telepathy with animals, there is a peace ful vision to aim for, not just logic, logic is good , but there is more to veganism !?

[@keecc3243]

At what point did it stop being about ‘diet’ to Tim and instead became a proud declaration that the next step for him was to kill an animal with his own hands to eat. I’m sorry but all respect was lost the day not only did he disregard animal suffering but he ENCOURAGED others to partake in it. Disingenuous and narcissistic. Thank you for always putting the animals first Seb, sadly it’s rare 💚🙏

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

People make mistakes, sometimes publicly.

[@m34569]

I appreciate his apology and I am glad he is plant based again. I wish he would have an interview with Piers Morgan and explain the damage he created to animal rights and that he was wrong in blaming veganism for his health problems.

[@fannyboni472]

💯 he SHOULD go on tv, do an interview with piers morgan, if he is really genuine with this ! Trying to make up for the damages he is done

[@jimmyobrien8738]

We don't know if the plant based diet was an issue as a study on ex vegans has yet to commence so we don't know 🤷

[@markoszouganelis5755]

Thank you Seb Alex! I like your peaceful and meek way, (meek is a new word for me in English, but is the right one for what I would like to express), the peaceful and meek way you are making your presentation with! I think all of us, (the Vegan activists), have to adopt, as a good way to approach the other people, to talk to them, about the Vegan Ideology! Veganism is the only way, for a happy life, for ALL of us on this planet! 💚🌈

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

Why are they being called a "cult"? I know nothing of this group but too often the word is thrown around for any kind of obscure beliefs that are not mainstream. There is specific criteria that must be met for a group to be considered a cult.

[@kenzcull3180]

The leaders claim to be Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalene which is enough for a lot of people to start throwing the cult word around.

[@mairzydoats4879]

I'm glad you're taking this opportunity to spread the bigger picture. I wasn't vegan when he was popular so I can't imagine the shock of looking up to him as an accomplished plant based athelete only to see him literally pee into his own face. I didn't hear an apology in this and maybe his judgement can never be trusted but there's always a message for the audience to practice logic and reason because, like everything else, if you don't use it you lose it.

[@gaspard7052]

I prefer him to be vegan. So I'm very open minded. If he's vegan now, it's good. Let's hope he will do better than John Venus.

[@vegangames3468]

If he is not eating animals, it’s a win in that respect. Hopefully he will not have a flip flop attitude and grow some balls and stick up for the animals.

[@SebAlex]

I strongly believe he should read on the ethics and philosophy of animal rights for this to be a lifelong decision.

[@DavesArtRoom]

I think you did a great job with this video. I have been vegan now for almost 6 years and it was the best thing I could have done. I don’t think it was the morallity of it that prompted me to go vegan. Yet, that awareness of animal rights just as human rights, is at the core of it. To me, it made me start to think of abortion and any cruelty toward human animals, and so any species should have that right. Rights to me, are only created by human choice. If there is a God, we humans still are responsible for our own actions. I will never go back to eating animals, because lucky enough for me, I am able to reason and think, and enjoy this ethical path. Looking back, I wished I had been aware of this earlier in my life. But I am just glad I did it. I am 53 years old. Keep up the videos to help educate us on veganism.

[@KerriEverlasting]

Here's a tip Tim. There is a victim, many victims- none of them are you.

[@v.a.n.e.]

none of them *is* you; sorry, OCD-like pedantry kicked in, as well as the inspiration of your willingness to share tips

[@rommelangus]

Lol none of those victims were white, heterosexual, cissexual and men.

[@Cynthi_n]

He’s on his spiritual journey as many are including myself. What I don’t understand is what his spiritual journey has to do with veganism? You can heal your body, heal with plants and other ways wile being vegan for animals 🌱

[@suchawolfy]

Great content as usual Seb, it's important we recognise people who are making good moral progress regardless of their prior indiscretion. While I think I see your point about Veganism being a logical philosophy, it seems to me to be emotionally founded at the end of the day. I say this because it is only an emotional connection that will make someone change and hold themselves accountable. I used "logic" for 27 years of my life to justify what we do to animals by concluding I'd be willing to kill the animal myself and that any empathy I felt for them in the process was simply a case of mistaken identity by my brain, and evolutionary mishap allowing empathy to spill over. It was only after removing nearly all animal products from my diet for reducing my carbon footprint and having not missed them all that much, that I was open to watching Earthling Ed do outreach and made the connection between human oppression and that of the animals. It was only the strong emotional need to fix the hypocrisy that I could consider myself a humanist while arbitrarily deciding that some group of others wasn't worthy of moral consideration. I think even those able to operate purely on principle do so because it would be emotionally damaging to themselves to act any other way. It may seem digressive, but I believe it's important that we are honest that empathising with the suffering of animals is the defining aspect that makes one a Vegan. Thanks again for all you do, keep up the good fight 🤙💚

[@animood5387]

Great comment

[@aeowendarling]

I'm only ten minutes in so you might mention this later - but I find it odd that he left out the whole reason he started getting sick in the first place. I'm not sure how many people remember, but back when he was still running and having vegan retreats, he started drinking the urine of his mates. He had several videos about this, how he believed drinking his own urine and the urine of others would benefit his body somehow or allow his body to absorb some of the nutrients that had been urinated out of him. It is known that urine is toxic, so I don't know what research he used here to fuel his idea that this would help his body. After a while, he participated in a sebo sample study with Gogi Man (these two videos are also taken down) and Gogi Man clearly explained that that Tim was suffering from the most severe bacterial infection he had ever seen that was proven in the sebo sample he had received from Tim. He even mentioned he was certain it was due to the urine ingestion. Tim wrote this off, asked that the video be deleted and deleted his response to Goji Man - which was basically Tim saying he didn't believe the results. Following that incident is when he did the water fast. He only blamed veganism for his ill health because he did not want to admit that he was told professionally what was causing his illness and was too prideful to backdown from his own research. This showed in his later videos when he spent hour long talks explaining how only you know yourself, experiment, etc. Just wanted to add this in here if it wasn't covered by him or you :) I'll delete if it comes up later. Thank you for listening. I used to watch Tim regularly, but lost respect for him after the incident.

[@thebowandbullet]

"I spoke to many people at the time who had the *_exact same experiences_* doing the *_same exact thing_* " 🤦‍♂ Go figure, Tim. Imagine a group of raw plant-based dieters and water-fasters, who have an unhealthy obsession with weight loss and think any diet will solve all their problems in life, having a similar experience. None of that has anything to do with veganism.

[@voice4voicelessKrzysiek]

Seb, I totally agree with your conclusions. His motivation is dubious. He didn't mention animal rights which is at the core of veganism.

[@TheSapphireLeo]

Our realizations, too and vegan since 2020

[@lalo77f]

Dejare mi comentario en español, espero lo leas seb, creo recordar que una vez hable contigo y hablabas español, despues de tantos años y leer otras cosas, no me parece raro lo que dice Tim, SI BIEN el veganismo es facil de entender ya que puntualmente se trata de respetar a los animales en todo el sentido de la palabra, he visto estos ultimos años como algunos veganos en un inicio se unieron al veganismo por sentirse parte de un grupo, por sentir que pertenecian a algo y en muchos casos al no sentirse integrados en otro grupos llegan al veganismo con muchas ganas, pasion pero tambien poca tolerancia a la frustracion y sobre todo poco tolerancia a tener conversaciones incomodas, y como muchos sabemos todas estas emociones duran un rato y cuando desaparecen muchos de ellos dejan de ser veganos y he profundizado en esto con lecturas, leyendo muchas cosas sobre yoga, budismo y lo he practicado conmigo mismo, si realmente tu cabeza y mente no estan en equilibrio pueden pasar estas cosas, unirte a grupo solo por mal manejo de emociones (no son conscientes de eso) o para expulsar su frustracion sin entender genuinamente cual es el objetivo real del grupo y pueden parecer incluso en un inicio muy buenos activistas. Creo que es importante hoy en dia dejar de pensar que los veganos, todos entienden el mensaje desde el inicio, cada activista antes de llegar a grupos que luchan por los animales deberian hacer un trabajo personal, trabajarse y ser sinceros y ver cual es su motivacion real para ayudar a los animales, ya que si uno escarba un poco mas en la mente, muchas veces los motivos son otros, como ego, frustracion, autoestima baja, contension grupal (sienten inseguridad, por eso buscan un grupo) al tener todos estos temas no resueltos y si no tratarlos en algun tipo de trabajo personal, terapia o spicologia es probable que se somatice como el cuenta en este video, con esto no estoy diciendo que todo este mal, pero creo que es una consecuencia del poco valor que tiene la salud mental a nivel mundial. Me parece muy valiente que admita sus errores y al parecer regresar al ruedo. Pd: Tambien existen dietas basadas en plantas que no son para todos, mucho depende del tipo de persona, forma del cuerpo etc y con esto no digo que una dieta basada en plantas no funcione, si no educarnos mas y ser conscientes de que las cantidades y variedades de una dieta basada en plantas segun cada persona puede variar.

[@magalissantiago2817]

God I hate these flip floppers, they do so much damage to the animals they pretend to care about.

[@JustinViola]

In all honesty, the way how he words certain things just seem as if this video is not just 'apologizing', but also somewhat justifying his past thought patterns that made him go downhill this bad. And because of this, the apology feels more like a 'victim card' to me. like the result of egoism. If he stopped consuming corpses and 'side-products' again then sure, im glad. But this doesn't change my stance when it comes to him at all. He stopped doing something horrible again, great. And what about all the damage that has been done? All the influence he had on those that lowkey 'wanted to see someone famous in the movement fail' and more? And this also isn't about hate, not at all. This is about correction, inquiry, this is about accountability. We need to keep in mind at all times that only a plant-based diet can be truly optimal for health since it doesnt inherently contain class-2 carcinogens (and more heavy toxins of course), keep in mind that this first and foremost is about justice anyway. Every second of every minute of every hour, countless lifes are taken because of this. And sure, this is just a feeling but when I watch this video of his then he just seems manipulative in a way, intentionally or unintentionally. I guess people are entitled to their own opinion and when it comes to this, I also think that most people don't just 'change on a wimp'. There needs to be a key moment that somehow influences their thinking in a major way. And this works perfectly when it comes to the transition from 'corpse muncher' to vegan. I'm 100% convinced that this doesnt work the other way around though. The only thing that comes to my mind when it comes to the 'motivation' behind such an apology is the public image. And as he said himself, the criticism (or how he has put it, 'attacks' I believe is what he said) definitely played a major role for him. This is just another feeling but im also inherently convinced that a huge part of society treats life as some sort of popularity contest, ignoring the true inherent values that life itself gives. And Tim is one of those, im sure (not intentionally though, because this cult also gives me the impression that he is just very simple-minded, no offense. only time will tell but I honestly wouldn't be surprised If he goes back to eating corpses again as depending on how his environment might change, cause this is just the type of person he seems to be in my opinion. If I remember correctly he even talked about 'having a wet dream' after he consumed fish again, I mean just how sick is that? Getting a wet dream from consuming the corpse of someone who suffocated horrifically? Anyway, dont wanna go on forever. But I definitely agree with everything you said. I dont know how others might think about him now but my trust in him definitely is gone. And an 'apology video' like this is far from being enough when it comes to being actually convincing in his regret. I just don't get the impression that he regrets what he has done. I think he regrets the reaction that his actions have sparked. I don't think he actually mentioned the non-human animals that have tremendiously suffered because of him in any profound way, if at all which is all that veganism is about. He talked a lot about himself though and 'his suffering'. this is just another reason for my thoughts as well. just talking about one's own arrogance isn't enough, too. it's just seems like lipservice to somewhat do damage-control.

[@d.rabbitwhite]

He can't be back.. He never was. One does not stop being vegan. He can only move forward into being vegan. I will not believe him until I see he is behaving in a vegan manner, and stays that way for the rest of his life. "Friends turned on me..." no, tim, you turned on sentient abused individuals and people concerned with justice couldn't just tell you it is ok.

[@v.a.n.e.]

no true Scotsman fallacy. besides, it's not up to you, or anyone else for that matter, whether he identifies himself as a vegan; it's analogous to misgendering. belittling someone's identity is uncool

[@alanskelding7606]

He was only ever plant based nothing else its all about him and his health and well being

[@Serendipity-gj2me]

I love listening to you, Seb. My thoughts on Tim Shieff are you don't flip-flop in and out of veganism. How does one go from being sensitive to the murder of animals to being the murderer who murders them? I have no respect for him and whatever he says I wouldn't trust further than my nose.

[@anthonydude]

There seems to be a strong correlation between the use of the word 'journey' and mental instability

[@sundrieddelivers]

I’ve met Tim a couple of times, and saw a massive difference in him on the second time. This wasn’t a man who was finding himself, he seemed to be more lost and desperate to find an answer. It was a real shame to see how far his grasp of reality seemed to have slipped.

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

Let's hope he will continue to grow to be his best version of himself, which includes living a fully vegan lifestyle.

[@opticalman6417]

Carnivore all the way what we are meant to be eating puting a animal life befor your own health is utterly insane

[@caseytyler8326]

Yeah I remember he was supposed to be in game changers and they had to stop production and cut him out 🤦‍♂️ he seems very flimsy I feel like he follows trends too much and isn’t vegan for the animals he would probably still visit zoos and circuses 🤷‍♂️ I’ve been vegan for 8 years now and am healthy af even while eating vegan junk food 😂 but even if I was sick and was gonna die next week unless I ate an egg and consulted multiple doctors then that’s game over for me my body is so broken that it can’t properly digest nutrients from plants? Yeah I’m done at that point vegan for life. Tim definitely had SIBO it’s very hard to diagnose and is present in vegans and non vegans alike but non vegans get antibiotics from factory farmed animals

[@BharatSharma-of9du]

I think being vegan for the animals is the best but I can't deny the positive effect on animals even by a simple p/b diet Of course its the lowest one can do , but the effect is huge . At the same time by being vegan the positive impact is much more than just a p/b diet but if tim chooses anyone of it , I believe it's no less than a win-win

[@P.Ripper]

So, apparently this comment thread became full of non-psychologists with absolute no theoretic background saying that Tim has mental issues. The search for meaning is continuous, what I see is a bunch of people that just gave up or ended up with a dogmatism held as truth. Western culture with its positivism, reductionism, analytic behaviour and discreteness bias is indeed a well-disguised dogma. I see Tim as a very strong person, more than most of people here, as strong as to try extreme methods until the very last of consequences, and also strong enough to accept when something doesn't work and then move on. Many of the people here cannot even move on from their unhealthy irrational western biased life. "Live and let live" argue a lot of animal activists, but I see plenty of here not applying it to another human being. Hypocrsy in its core.

[@MandyRose525]

Divine truth is not a cult. They share what they know about the path to God. They do not push their beliefs on anyone.

[@wolfhugs2221]

He's still so arrogant. Gojiman carried out tests for him for free, that identified issues. Instead of following the advice of an expert, he threw veganism and the animals under the bus. It's still just all about Tim.

[@drsalka]

Is it possible that he is delivering his apology and message in a way that would provide some context for why he acted and decisions he made in the past (and how that taught him or might help him make wiser, more thought-out decisions in the future)? It makes perfect sense to me why one would want to expand on what state of mind they were in & worldview they had (when they did something undesirable) - it informs all of one's actions. Being a man so heavily identified with his body (he was/is an athlete) and living in a patriarchal society that places logic & facts above emotions & our inner subjective experiences of ourselves and the world (especially being harsh with men, prescribing a stoic approach to life; rarely encouraging young and even adult men to develop the basic emotional literacy and awareness), his experience as he's describing it seems very expected and it's actually very vulnerable and "brave" to express this part of himself. I think in his case, the vulnerability he displayed in this video is a progress in his personal journey as well as it will make it more likely that he'd actually have an easier time staying vegan (for the animals, because he is more aware of more aspects of himself).

[@wolfhugs2221]

@jonahwhale9047Gojiman did a whole video on it, from memory I think it was something like leaky gut and SIBO, most likely caused by drinking urine. Gojiman offered a free protocol to resolve the problems but Tim thought he knew better.

[@wolfhugs2221]

@@drsalka that's my point. It's all about him and his ideas.

[@drsalka]

@@wolfhugs2221 … it is after all HIS life and HIS body - the body all of us other vegans would certainly prefer to be healthy to better represent the movement & what becoming/being vegan is and can be. If we are all sick or the loudest ones are sick, how many non-vegans do you feel will gladly ditch their carnistic practices and stop commodifying animals and become vegan? Likely, they won’t even look into veganism. I know I would be hesitant at least. A large percentage of people enter through the “health/diet” aspect and only later center the animal rights in “their” veganism. While I’d prefer all vegans be vegan for the animals, the ones that aren’t are at least not harming more animals than an average carnist.

[@wolfhugs2221]

@@drsalka exactly the point. He made his platform on the back of the fact that at the time, the misconception of vegans being weak and unhealthy was common. He challenged that by showing up as healthy and incredibly fit. Then he went on TV and blamed all of his health issues on veganism. He provided all the evidence carnists wanted to hear. His body, his journey, his business - no need to make a video about it. That he has and has waffled on about himself the entire time tells us where his priorities remain. They aren't with the animals.

[@3ox3]

Thank you

[@PercivalBlakeney]

I went Vegan because I read it might help with concentration and hyperactivity (it hasn't… _quelle surprise_). Remain Vegan because there is no reason not to. (Who wants to give Piers Morgan the satisfaction?) 🌷

[@v.a.n.e.]

I knew there was an explanation for your lack of concentration! however, Piers Morgan is not the only one who would be intrigued by that. P.S. did you know that the carnivore diet effectively treats issues of this nature? maybe it's worth a try

[@PercivalBlakeney]

@v.a.n.e Really? So what's the explanation for your nastiness? The carnivore diet has shown limited success treating children with epilepsy… "limited"… I don't have epilepsy. Statistically Vegans live longer so, with the jolly ol' morbid procrastination, I've given myself more time to get stuff done. The only thing that demonstrably helps with ADHD is medication… and neither of my jobs are keen on that line of approach. Like the line in Harvey, you can get through life being real smart or real pleasant… and Frank Tufano, Piers Morgan, Mike Parry, Mike "concrete farmer" Graham and Shawn Baker don't appear to be much of either. "v.a.i.n." you appear to be neither much a decent judge nor specimen of human being. Y'know?

[@sudd3660]

@@v.a.n.e. asking people to try supporting animal killing and abuse is not legal, moral or humane. we must all agree to abolish animal abuse, no matter the cost. and the cost is only your addiction and unhealth being undone.

[@v.a.n.e.]

at no point did I try to encourage anyone to support animal abuse. that was absolutely disgraceful of you. on the other hand, go to the nearest food store that offers animal products and threaten to report them for their "illegal" activity. I just want to help my friend get back on his feet as soon as possible @@sudd3660

[@v.a.n.e.]

@@PercivalBlakeney is there a chance that your complete lack of information on these issues is responsible for your failure to address your health challenges?? you're actually talking about the keto diet, which was used to treat epilepsy and was quite successful, but that's not a carnivore diet. the carnivore diet has significantly more protein than the keto diet, which insists on the consumption of fat; the therapeutic ketogenic diet goes to even 90% fat. I know that you are not particularly interested in deeper scientific argumentation, so I will not offer you evidence in the form of studies that show that vegans, the few who reach that point at all, are no different, and in some segments even worse, from the rest of the population. what I could tell you is that, at this moment, there is a good number of 'carnivore' channels that are talking about how they solved their ADHD challenges only with the help of the carnivore diet, that is, without any medications. google them, you might come across some useful tips

[@opticalman6417]

he was a fool for going back to veganism we are not meant to be eating plants

[@xrisos1397]

He doesnt say in his video that he is gone back being vegan...thats seb alex opinion...

[@stephss]

Hope Tim does a press run to say he made a mistake and that veganism rules. That's the only way he can payback for all the damage he did.

[@setitheredcap2677]

To be fair, my spirituality only furthers the logic and empathy. Buddhist preach compassion. I've calfed out hypercritical Buddhists and found a vegan Buddhist group, with resources for famous vegan Buddhists. So Faith can lead to or enhance vegan ideals. But believing some rando's are Jesus is next level crazy.

[@Daniel-oj7bx]

Tim Pisshief? is he relevant anyhow?

[@nocontextwhatever]

How can he apologize to people when people are not who suffered, died because of him. People can be offended but he can never "make it up" to *humans*. 😑

[@drsalka]

I left a comment with a timestamp as well as valuable information on the topic you haven't explored in depth, that every visitor of the comment section would benefit from. Where did my comment go, Mr. non-dogmatic vegan Seb Alex? Thank you in advance.

[@SebAlex]

I have no control over KZbin censoring comment, feel free to leave it under this section.

[@myfrequencies1912]

Nah Tim's alright. He's a unique guy (well, so are we all unique in our own ways to state the obvious which, apparently some people need) & he's just chosen to put certain parts of his weird journey (only weird by YOUR perception of what's "normal" remember!) on display for the benefit of social media & whatever benefit he derives from doing so. I think the Australian Jesus guy is totally whack, for example, but who am i to judge? If it helps another human being to heal/grow/learn, then more power to him. & there's absolutely nothing wrong with having "an ego", to all those judgemental so & so's who keep on about that. Everybody's got one, even you, or you wouldn't be so judgemental. Lighten up & stay in your f*ing lane.

[@stevo271]

He says he "felt" something was off. No specifics, (my joints hurt, lack of energy ect), just "something was off". He's very vague on many points. Reeks of a hidden agenda.

[@magalissantiago2817]

He sounds like he has some mental issues, he might flip-flop again.

[@drsalka]

What exactly did give you the impression of him having some mental issue, I think I might have missed that part - would you be so kind to point me to it? I did catch where he was talking about discovering suppressed/unresolved emotions with his parents from his formative years, which I am under impression the vast majority of humans experience (to a lesser or greater degree) and have to eventually deal with in their lives. I would like for Tim to stick to being vegan this time, simply because the animals deserve one less human oppressing them (directly or not). Thanks for your clarification and time in advance.

[@antoniokinsey4041]

I have an irritable bowel disease called Ulcerative Colitis, Pancolitis to be more specific. It’s very similar to Chrones, just isolated in the large intestine. I cringe when people are sick with some disease or other and they think.. “animal flesh, fish, Dairy and eggs will solve my health concerns 🤷🏽. I’ve waffled away from be plant-based several times, when trying to gain weight. But I knew I was just experimenting with “short cuts” or “quick fixes” that now seem absurd. I would eat salmon and seafoods, and I would justify it by telling myself that I want to make sure I error on the side of caution while weight lifting to increase my muscle mass. Now, I don’t even drink my vegan protein powder anymore ‘cause I’ve since learned (and the Well your World youtube channel makes great points about this), that as long as you’re eating a varied healthy plant based diet, that’s all the protein and nutrients you need on top of getting good sleep and managing stress/mental health, unless of course your blood work comes back from the lab and your Doctor says you need to supplement with testosterone ‘cause you’re over 50, or your vitamin D is low and prescribes you a vitamin d supplement, etc. That’s normal for patients, whether they are vegan or not. Of course if you get sick mental/physical and need treatment/medication, you follow your Dr’s advise on the treatment. But a plant based diet, while it won’t cure you most diagnosed chronic diseases, it defiantly helps a whole lot more than eating animals, dairy, eggs, etc. I’m still not fully transitioned to being vegan today. The only thing left that I buy in my groceries for preparing things at home is Bee Pollen. I know I’m doing that cognitive dissonance thing that vegans hear so much about. I 100% agree. So when people like this Tim Sheif guy actually gets on a soap box to blame his woes on being vegan, and actually argues and defends the benefits of going back to consuming animals products is nuts to me. It’s akin to me biting my nails, not brushing my teeth, smoking, drinking alcohol, and while it’s nothing to be judged for, but to arguing and defend it is just cringe lol. Another thing I do that isn’t vegan, is on the rare occasion I go eat at a restaurant with family or friends, I don’t order anything with cheese, meat, fish, eggs (that can be seen on the plate and are the main component of the dish), but I won’t ask the waiter if there is butter, or chicken broth in the sauce. Stuff like that. I’m on my way though to becoming vegan. E.g. I need some new dress shoes, and I’ll be buying vegan-leather. If I need new pillows/textiles/mattress/clothing, I’ll stay away from wool, silk, etc. But I’ve still been sacrificing the bees for my bee-pollen. I’ve been plant based for about two years. I’ll see how it goes, but I’m not going backwards, and then defending eating animals. You want to eat animals, that’s your business, but trying to convince others it’s healthier than being plant based is just so cringe.

[@BigBigBafz]

It's becoming more apparent that it's a lack of a strong sense of self identity that is his major problem. He's always looking for a power outside of himself that will give him all the answers and everlasting happiness. Unfortunately, it doesn't exist. I think therapy would help him get to know his own moral compass and it's only that which can truly convince you what is right and wrong. If you go vegan for your health, the planet, because it's fasionable or because your religion tells you to then you aren't really convinced and are likely to falter time and again.

[@jdmmg4904]

👍🏽

[@sudd3660]

Tim just joined a religious cult, reminds me of scientism. probably was forced to write this thing and read it publicly. i do not know why me mixes spiritually, religion and psychology. and not once he apologise for supporting animal abuse and killing. all humans on earth as the responsibility to do no harm to animals or living unhealthy. and not spread misinformation and confuse others to be destructive towards themselves and others.

[@reesecarr2105]

💚💚💚💚💚💚💚❤

[@tamcon72]

The man has no internal core identity. He has no anchor within himself. He's still searching for what he stands for and doesn't stand for, an aspect of self-knowledge that most people attain at adulthood. This is why he falls into this cult thinking, whether the Jesus and Mary thing or the raw vegan sungazer thing. I wish him well, but do not trust him because he _doesn't know who he is_ and that makes him an unreliable actor in his own life, and in public. Thanks for posting.

[@drsalka]

While I see him not having no anchor within himself and agree to some extent with you, I'd just like to add that some people's path in life is to be a seeker. By definition, the seeker never finds - it comes with the territory. Being a seeker is not a pathology nor is it a lesser path in comparison to any other path. The responsibility to discern who's to be listened to (an authority) for certain answers falls upon the listeners - me and you and others. Just like we took it upon ourselves to change our carnist daily and life habits even though we have been mislead by the information and institutions while living in a non-vegan world, we can further discern among various vegan (or not) voices what's the highest expression of compassion/health/wholeness/knowledge or whatever it is that we are valuing the most in life and seek to master.

[@magadaga6434]

Is Tim reading the answers instead to answer spontaneously? It looks to me. Anyway. Plus his turning up in a Christian / Catholic way ...really disappointing! 😢

[@fannyboni472]

Ofc he is reading! Its obvious.. you can even see the paper he is reading from 😅.

[@CeravvvEgan]

He is such a little victim. Not once in his egotistical “apology”, did he mention the real victims - the animals. Tim needs some help as his physical heath probably has more to do with his mental health. Sorry, but I’ve been depressed etc myself and I’m always more prone to getting physically sick when I’m depressed, anxious etc. Get real help to sort out your confusion and issues with your mum, then things will look better. Right now you come across as very broken Tim. You’re not going to find a solution through diet.

[@drsalka]

He literally speaks of what you are suggesting he should do in these excerpts?!

[@CeravvvEgan]

@@drsalka yes he talks about it, but then runs to a cult for help instead of a qualified professional.

[@vgn_wrld3413]

the volume is way to low here :(

[@sudd3660]

volume knob, turn it up. that is how amplifiers work.

[@vgn_wrld3413]

@@sudd3660 wow thank you for the advice!! LOL i turned it to the max and it still not loud

[@sudd3660]

@@vgn_wrld3413 i can play this video so loud it hurts, so this is all on your end. and why do i even bother replying. you had a problem with your hardware and now you have to fix it.

[@MishelleBee]

“Don’t want this to be a hate video.” Hmmmm but you’re talking about and criticising a guy to get ‘likes’ on your channel when it’s none of your business what he does or how he lives 😂 Could have maybe asked him to come onto your channel for a chat about it instead? Your “science” about plant based diets is absolutely NOT clear and this info is very misleading. This video popped up on my feed and I do not want judgemental vegans on here. Animals were given to humans to be in subjection of.

[@SebAlex]

There's actually no hate in this video towards Tim, seems like you didn't even watch it but okay, this is youtube, I'm not surprised.

[@leezap]

Beef is concentrated grass. Do you want plant based? Then eat beef. Only humans are dumb enough to invent all kind of dogmas and virtue signaling.

[@Kate-zl3zl]

I'm happy Tim Shieff is vegan again. Alex O'Connor is another one. Some people you just really respect, admire, and believe in, and it means a lot to have them on the side of the animals, justice and mercy or not.

[@v.a.n.e.]

well, he was just asking for forgiveness for the huge damage he did to veganism, that doesn't mean he decided to go vegan again. his refusal to participate in the finalization of "The Game Changers" alone caused irreparable damage to veganism. he only regrets the harm he caused, it seems. besides, what makes you think Alex O'Connor is vegan again? just because he expressed a few positive opinions during random conversations does not make him a vegan

[@StephenMarkTurner]

Tim was a world class athlete. But I have no interest in listening to him.

[@alreadythunkit]

Can't hear.

[@xrisos1397]

He stills eat meat..

[@v.a.n.e.]

actually, it's kind of funny; at the beginning, you claim that veganism is not dogmatic and, you continue to express obvious dogmatism all the way to the end of the video. your dogmatism is so blinding that you are not even conscious of it.

[@v.a.n.e.]

you never cease to amaze me with your prominent ignorance of basic logic. commitment and persistence do not determine whether an opinion is pointless. besides, I'm not an anti-vegan @jonahwhale9047

[@ablevegan2295]

​@jonahwhale9047sit down Jonah. You are an embarrassment not only to yourself, but also the movement

[@juliodiaz3920]

divine freak

[@michealmcpherson1575]

😎 'promosm'