Time For a Change

In this video I discuss why I am removing the CaribSea Life Rock in my 187 gallon display tank and replacing it with some Haitian live rock I have in my cryptic sump.
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[@deanfielding4411]

I really appreciate and like how you have thoroughly tried something, it has not worked, but that is still progress as we have now collectively learned something quite interesting and helpful for the hobby. Thank you 😊

[@CherIsmail]

Same issue. After 3 years, I’m cooking my old dry rock in storage and getting rid of the CaribSea Life rock. I’m done battling!

[@michaelbazzy4856]

I think you are smart to get rid of the Carribsea life rock. I had a 20 gallon nano running for two years without any algae issues. Then I decided to add some life rock arches. I cured the arches in the sump of another system for a few months and then put them in the nano. I did not remove my existing rock from the nano (so this was not swapping established rock for life rock). I started having algae problems almost immediately thereafter. Your Haitian live rock will serve you better in the display than in the cryptic sump. Good luck!

[@Richs_reef]

That’s a beautiful Acantho you have there Keith!

[@fishybizzness1592]

I had a rough 2 years with this same rock. The tank only stabilized when i removed half of it and replaced it with live ocean rock. I'm upgrading from my 120 to a 200 in a few months and plan to replace the remainder with live rock! 2 years of grief could have been avoided if i had just used live rock like my last tank!

[@cegentry]

Was going to go with some of this rock. Glad I haven’t got my new tank set up yet this stuff is expensive and if it isn’t working I would be livid. I don’t believe it is you. None of this stuff has a proven track record but you do. You know what you are doing and what should be happening at this point. Years is a long time to be sitting there patiently waiting.

[@Mr68hemicuda]

I've been dealing with the same issue, never even thought of this being the problem. I'm satrting a new 210g tank in a few months, going with dry rock this time. Thanks for the info

[@GrahamStephan]

Very interesting. I've battled the same issues with my tank over the last 3 years (also using Life Rock), couldn't figure out the culprit.

[@kayakcarol]

Looking forward to seeing the progression!

[@GenePlotkin]

I have that same CS life rock and 3 years in there isn't any algae or anything on the rock. It's nice and clean. I had issues, but when I raised my nutrients to NO3: 10-20 and PO4: 0.1 - 0.2 all the cyano disappeared and the herbivores got rid of the algae. It was tough the first couple of years though. Upping nutrients seemed to do the trick for me.

[@saf1671]

Having added a few pieces to my 6 year old reef I've had a similar experience. It allows some nice aquascape options but at the cost of porosity(? not sure if that is the right word to use here). In my opinion. Then again I also used dry Pukani but that is another story as it relates to dry vs live rock. Hope your day is well and good luck with the swap or exchange.

[@BriansAquariums]

Hope you are not affected by the flooding, Keith. Give us an update, please.

[@ReefBum]

All is well....thanks!

[@bigadventure3797]

Yep I had the same issue with this rock. It doesn't grow coralline very well either...Nothing but trouble. Went with the KP Aquatics rock after watching your building series.

[@TheAcroReef425]

Dry rock is a hit or miss. I setup my reef with Marco Rock which took a year and a half to fully cycle and stop growing random algae. There’s nothing like good old dry rock…I miss the days of when we can just go to an LFS and pick up live Fiji, Tonga and pukani rock. Hang in there Keith!

[@bencobb3433]

Hey Keith great insight to the problems you've been having hope it all works out for you loving the green chromis what's you secret to success with them?

[@ReefBum]

Thanks, no real method for keeping the Chromis alive.

[@deanfielding4411]

Dry rock worked very well for me. It’s hard but it worked.

[@dereks3207]

Dry Marco rock will always be the best. it takes time.. but it always works great.

[@saf1671]

@@dereks3207 Until you try a build that uses quality live rock from TBS or KP Aquatics. Night and day difference (of course that comes at a price).

[@RogueAquariums]

I haven’t had any issues regarding cyano with my CaribSea rock that I’ve been using for 4.5 yrs. Love the arch rock.

[@ReefBum]

Hey, that is good for u!

[@miguelm4845]

Those rocks make it so difficult to establish a reef but I was able to tame them. If you're getting rid of them I'll take some :)

[@ReefBum]

Thanks for the offer but they now reside in the woods next to my house 🤣

[@dusk1947]

I'm always amazed (though I shouldn't be) by how much 'success' comes down to rock and sand choices. My first Reef was started with dry-rock and dry-sand, and I had nothing but issue after issue for the first two years. I solved it by dark-culturing the rock for several months (I temporarily shut down the display), and introducing live-sand. I started a tank upgrade this past winter and my second Reef is underway, this time with well established rock where I opted for bare-bottom. Once again, it's been nothing but issue after issue. I'm once again debating a temporary shut-down to re-culture the rock after numerous waves of odd and aggressive algae's, and I'm almost certainly going to introduce live-sand for the ecological stability. I doubt I will ever opt for anything except well-cultured rock and live sand moving forward. Nothing else has lead to success (for me). While every other option has been a struggle.

[@adamwgregory]

I also recently switched out my Caribsea Life Rock. My LFS says every one struggles with it.

[@anthonyd555]

I had cyano, algae and other problems, but once I ditched the fake rock and all my problems went away overnight. I recommend live Australian branch rock.

[@aquamind9996]

Allow me to join the chorus. I used this rock when I set up my new 150 gallon system 18 mo ago, and it has been a nightmare. Totally unstable microbiome, cycling between diatom and dino blooms for the 3rd time now

[@KenCherubini]

Not necessarily the brand, but I've had issue with dry rock from any source in multiple tanks. Still battling in one tank until I can afford to replace it. Your definitely not alone

[@gavinreynolds9808]

Swapped mine out three months ago because of the same issues

[@gomisreef]

6 months in, exact same issues.

[@RobTeeJr]

First off, this is not my first rodeo with SW reef tanks and I agree with you regarding Carib Sea Rock . I started a 50 gallon using Carib Sea Rock exclusively with live sand and I had similar issues. I chose Carib Sea for the same reason i.e. interesting shapes. On my current 125 gallon I used DRY natural reef rock and live sand and have experienced none of the issues that plagued the 50 gallon. The only advantage of the Carib Sea rock I found over natural reef rock other than the available shapes was the extreme lack of porosity meant Aiptasia were easier to kill with F/Aiptasia as they couldn't retreat into a deep hole and the paste couldn't drip down through very porous rock.

[@BackWoodsReefer]

Love that hammer

[@rolandmuncie]

It's not just you. Maybe mixed in with lots of gulf live rock may work, but I don't even bother. It's expensive and limits me in the type of aquascape I can build but I am setting all my tanks up with gulf live rock only (from either Gulf Live Rock or Tampa Bay Saltwater) - never had any ugly periods. Lots of mantis and aiptasia and gorilla crabs but they are easily dealt with.

[@MabuyaQ]

I guess this kind of rock can only work with a real sandbed to compensate the lack of surface area this rock tends to have.

[@Chrish_Fish]

A algae turf scrubber will get rid of all those diatoms helped me setup my 800 gallon with all dry rock

[@guesswho7165]

I never had any issue with Redsea dry rocks.

[@lintonjh]

When I take rock from the farm to the display I snag a couple urchins to eat away the ugly phase of algae.

[@CoralMan24]

I have heard nothing buy bad for caribsea life rock I have always avoided there stuff and i'm glad I have they seem to be just about close to success but fall short

[@captivebredcanada]

Not a fan of this rock either but other than lack of porosity don't really have algae issues after the initial uglies. I'm using it in a pretty low energy reef tank and it lost all its fake coraline and is taking forever for real coraline to grow over it. No cyano but I feel like this rock creates tons and tons of detritus. It is in a lower flow environment and I did saw many of my rocks to have them fit in but still. I should not need to siphon the detritus as much as I do. Most are siliconed to the glass so there will be no restart but I would avoid this rock as a backbone to a reef but rather consider using it if you wanted to add arches or other cool structures in an existing tank and even then there are other superior options out there. Plus it appears Solomon Islands live rock will be returning!

[@EugeneRu777]

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@jonathannguyen3620]

When did the cyano start appearing ? I just set up a little nano tank with this stuff.

[@ReefBum]

It didn't take long ☹

[@billssaltwaterheaven]

Yes, the CaribSea sucks! I added it to my 600 gal when I upgraded from my 210. It releases phosphates all hair algae grew out of it! Took me 6 months to get rid of it. The REAL REEF ROCK is awesome! Try that.

[@ballejoreef4599]

I thought u changed out these rocks a while back? I don't think it's u,, cos I have the same rock w/the same prob last 6 yrs. I recall these rocks were very heavy dry, prob from lack of porosity.as u mentioned.

[@nathancross540]

Curious do you think soaking the rock in some bleach water will help remove possible issues in the rock? Or do you think that even doing that won’t help due to the lack of veracity of the rock?

[@ReefBum]

Hard to say but that rock is not porous at all so I am not sure a soak in that stuff would work.

[@nathancross540]

Curious is you tried, as I am doing the same thing with rocks purchased from breakdowns ect. Soaked the rocks to kill anything on them, and they are now all in a barrel with some TB saltwater rocks to cook.

[@TrevorHiller]

Keith, I still think you are looking in the wrong places for your algae issues. It’s akin to someone complaining about having the wrong kind of dirt causing the grass to be too long while no one is mowing it. I’ve said it before, but herbivores like trochus snails, emerald crabs and particularly urchins will clean this right up. As for the cyano, I think you have more organic input than output. Options to fix this include: increasing mechanical filtration like more frequent filter sock changes, implementing a fleece roller, increasing protein skimming. Using activated carbon, GFO/Rowaphos, decreasing feeding volume and water changes will all help curb some of the algae/cyano growth by removing organics. Think of it this way: If you bring home five bags of groceries a week and throw away two per week, eventually your refrigerator is going to be full of rotting food. I truly think you need to be analyzing you export practices and clean-up crew rather than looking at new rock. As proof of concept, my most recent tank was started with dry Marco rock and a few choice pieces of ocean live rock. Within 13 months, the algae growth was under control and the dry rock was colonized with CCA. Dry rock certainly takes longer than live rock to reach balance, but if after 2-3 years you are still battling it, I’d argue you need to be looking at your overall organic input and export practices rather than blaming the rock or the tank. If you are set on swapping the rock out, I say go ahead and do it, but I completely expect it’s not going to solve the problem at hand.

[@draj3214]

this tank is plumbed into his other displays, though. he mentions it's *this* setup in particular that suffers from these issues.

[@TrevorHiller]

@@draj3214 this is true, however, he has posted several videos over the past year or two with similar problems-I believe in both tanks although I could be wrong. He does reference Cyanobacteria in his videos A LOT. Throughout the video you see hardly any snails, urchins or other clean up crew.I believe he’s woefully under stocked in the clean up crew department and if these issues exist in both tanks then it points to an export/maintenance problem.

[@ReefBum]

@@TrevorHiller In my experience, a clean-up crew will not help with cyano. The snails in that tank did deplete over time but I did just add a whole bunch.

[@theamjadjamousable]

I think it just needs to be covered with corals

[@ReefBum]

Been there, done that. Didn't work.

[@MoeReefs]

That rock is pure garbage. I started my current tank with that almost 2 years ago. Removed it and created my own scape and still dealing with the aftermath. Never again.

[@DrewZaun]

First! I’ve used the Caribsea live sand, but honestly I can’t tell you it worked any different than dry sand. As for rock, I’ve only started tanks with Marco rock, and though it took a really long time it did eventually settle into something. I’m starting a new tank on dry Marco rock but as it exits the initial nitrogen cycling I am adding established rock from my other tanks, and I am hoping to see a lot less algae issues. Do you think there will be any issues pulling that rock out of darkness and suddenly having it exposed to light? Like a bacteria switch?

[@uhrvrbh]

Get a life

[@DrewZaun]

@@uhrvrbh just keep scrolling dude. Video was literally 9 seconds old when I was at a curb waiting for my daughter. I wanted a place holder to come back to, that you feel the need to express your thoughts on a comment shows more of a need to “get a life” than whatever you were reacting to. I hope your day gets better. Seriously. I hate negativity.

[@steelcowboy2751]

It’s not you. I’ve had a number of salt water fish only and reef tanks over the years, of all sizes and shapes. I’ve been in the hobby for many years; originally when real live rock was easily available and now that real live rock (especially decorator rock) is hard to get and/or expensive. I’ve used this Caribsea life rock twice and both times it was an absolute algae magnet. I get it from a marketing standpoint, companies can get enough real live rock to sell in mass so they make this fake crap and describe it as amazing: it’s neither live nor amazing. The last tank I set up I used Tampa Bay Saltwater rock and it was really nice, expensive and a pain to wait so long to get but it was worth it. There is no substitute for true live rock

[@so_so_reef]

It doesn't even look nice. I'd now only get live or dead live rock.

[@danielf9052]

Dry rock. One of the worst gimmicks in the hobby.

[@m4a1JAY]

Rock is a rock. You can buy some established rock from anywhere and seed your tank. Bacteria grows extremely fast. You just have to watch the amount of phosphates that get absorbed into the aragonite, it also contains phosphates naturally. All you do to prevent algae is turn down your red light and your photosynthesis period.

[@danielf9052]

⁠ seeding dry rock with live rock can actually be a very long process. Anaerobic bacteria that aid in the process of reducing nitrate to nitrogen gas can take a very long time to migrate from one rock to the porous areas of other rock. And this isn’t even a possibility if the rock is solid, man-made, and lacks porosity. It’s incredible all of the issues seen today with starting new tanks with dry rock and bottle bacteria. Back in the 2000’s when reef tanks were started with all indo-pacific live rock, we never had these year long ugly periods. It’s crazy how the hobby has regressed in certain areas. The best thing you can do for your tank is start with as much live rock as you can afford.

[@m4a1JAY]

@@danielf9052 Back in the 2000s we used bottle bacteria too….Bio-spira. People also got Dino and cyano. People thought cyano came from carbon dosing….we learn now that it can come from anywhere including the air, simply opening a window or putting your hands in the tank….live rock is easier but there definitely was success in dry Marco rocks too…people went from 2lbs per gallon rocks, 1-2lbs per gallon sand to bare bottom and minimal rocks…there’s success in every method it just takes time. People are so impatient nowadays they want instant gratification.

[@deanfielding4411]

@@m4a1JAYRock isn’t rock. If it’s solid like this Carib sea seams to be as it it not porous, then it will have minimal space for bacteria. Alternatively take a bio block from maxspec the that has a huge surface area for bacteria growth and is hugely porous.

[@m4a1JAY]

@@deanfielding4411 Bacteria doesn’t only grow on rocks…any surface area works. Aragonite by its nature has phosphates and absorbs and leeches phosphates too.

[@PhongHuynh0981314893]

Increase all no3 po4 or nutrient high as much as posible, let tank such as a toilet, it will let tank mature in few month (about 2 to 3). After that change all the water and make tank clean again but not too much clean, it will avoid all that cyano dinos problem.