Tips for Selecting Cymbals for Jazz Drumming

In this video I explain how I select cymbals for playing Jazz.
I talk about cymbal hum, thickness, size, mixing and matching brands as well as some alternatives to the old K's that everyone covets.
The kit I am using is a Gretsch Catalina Elite set from the early 1990's. I use this as my portable practice kit.
The sizes are:
16" BD, 12" and 14" toms and a Slingerland Brass 12" x 6.5 " snare.
The cymbals I demonstrate in the video are:
21" 1940's K Zildjian 2200 Grams
21" Istanbul Special Edition Jazz Ride 2150 Grams
18" 1950's K Zildjian 1550 Grams
15" 1950's K Zildjian Hi Hats Top 700 grams/Bottom 1000 grams
13" Sabian HH Regular Hi Hats Top 620 grams/ Bottom 840 grams
I am using 2 Sennheiser MKH 80 Microphones for overheads and a AKG D112 on the Bass Drum

[@hombreenojado]

I'm so glad you mentioned that a lot of the old K's sounded bad.

[@Paulswindellsdrummer]

You have been an invaluable source of wisdom and knowledge Rick, thank you so much for all that you do 😊

[@manuelwenaud8231]

Brands ! So glad to see someone who says we can mix collection of cymbals ! Thank you !!!!

[@thomasmoje5926]

For jazz I like 'drier' cymbals with a lot of stick definition. I have a Meinl 'Vintage Pure' 22" light ride cymbal that I purchased a few years ago that is just about perfect for jazz..excellent stick definition with just enough 'carry' and it doesn't build up volume too much through fast bop patterns and it crashes well. Also have an older Zildjian K 22" flat ride which I often pair with the Meinl to give me a different ride voice for different passages in a tune. For a crash for jazz settings I use an old Zildjian 19" thin crash with rivets it has a lovely wash when struck near the edge with brushes. My best hats are an old Zildjian A 15" top with rivets paired with a Zenjian heavy 15" hand-hammered bottom. That cymbal combination serves me well for jazz and most applications..for louder volume situations I switch to Zildjian 'A' rides and crashes. Nice playing as usual.

[@Tennessee17]

One of my favorite crashes for jazz but not only jazz, almost any gig, is the Zildjian K 18" dark crash. For rides, my go to is a Meinl Byzance traditional 22".

[@ericwright8177]

Byzantz Vintage Pure 💯 !

[@mikemcd8765]

hello thomas! just curious do u still have that 22 flat ride? been looking for the discontinued k con flats lol

[@carlosmacmartin4205]

Love the tone of those drums!!

[@dwightfontenot9064]

Such great info, Rick! Thanks!

[@mgrdibbs]

Thank you so much for your wisdom Rick ... and also relaxed and swinging playing. I learn so much from you.

[@christophevignals7867]

All the answers to my questions are in this vidéo !! Thanks a lot Maestro.. It’s so clear with you 🤩!

[@williamsolomon1622]

Thanks Rick ...you are Pure Class!!!

[@drl1046]

Really enjoyed this video. Subscribed!

[@cymbaljunkie]

Beautiful playing

[@rustycalvera977]

thank you for actually playing in your video....and so beautifully.....

[@jean-lucemanuele7095]

I'm blazed ! What a playing, teaching, know-how and lovely name (I'm French and part of my mother's family worked for and with Christian Dior) I hit the "Subscribe" button right away and will take advantage of your presence and generosity on KZbin as more and more I lova and play drums but I'm inspired by jazz and the way you play it it, is technically and artistically what I love the most : finesse, dynamic, groove, technique and pleasure to listen even playing alone. First of a long series : THANKS !!

[@garydonnelly100]

Several years ago I started getting serious about getting my chops back together (after having played a lot of straight 8th backbeat music for decades) and I needed to get my gear together for playing more Jazz. So, the Gretsch USAs came back out of storage and I started piecing together a set of cymbals. I found a really nice set of 13" K Custom Dark hats that really sound and feel great. Then, as you mentioned, I wanted to find three nice crash-able rides and I found a new 20" K Constantinople Bounce and 19" K Con Crash/Ride. They complement each other perfectly and have very similar characteristics yet have their own character. I also wanted to find a flat ride that I could dig into and originally found a K Lite Flat that I liked but after some time I felt it didn't sound good in certain acoustical settings. I eventually stumbled on a 20" K Con Flat (now discontinued) and it's the perfect flat for me. I don't really care for playing on those very pingy one-dimensional flats. I was looking for another that I could lay the shank into and get some wash and the K Con does that for me. I can dig into it over piano solos or vocalists and it doesn't overpower. That's the meat of my Jazz cymbal set. Occasionally I will also use an old 18" A Zildjian Swish (3 rivets) I bought in college in the 70s or an 18" A Custom EFX (that used to be part of my Rock setup but it cracked in several places so it's drilled out). I also have a 15" Zildjian Azuka (3 rivets) that I will sometimes use if I'm playing a lot of ballads. It speaks well with brushes and has a rather quick but even decay. The one thing all of these cymbals have is that shimmer or wobble characteristic that thinner, darker cymbals have. I'm always finding new inspiration from playing this set.

[@seppoinnanen5577]

Great clip, great playing👍 I used to look for thin ride cymbals with as little hum (low overtone, not the white noise) as possible. I found them allright but then I started to think think that those pieces didn't have much personality in them. Nowadays I choose cymbals that have little of that hum sound, very pleased with my current collection

[@adambuczek5878]

Gretą playing!!! Beautyful feel !!!

[@someferge]

Great stuff Rick 👍👍👍

[@patrickberkery8854]

That end solo. So good. Man...

[@MD-wk3gj]

I feel like I just had a chance to drop in and hear some great tips from an experienced player. Thanks.

[@Jepie]

Legendary video man, thank you

[@ilovemapledrumsspaun4083]

Rick is a such an amazing artist.

[@robertdore9592]

He's a REAL musician, and could make trash can lids and cooking pots sound musical.

[@geoffreysmith4618]

Rick - you are amazing! Very helpful video

[@rickdior]

Thanks Geoffrey, I appreciate that.

[@Monsterdrumma]

Awesome sounding cymbals and you play awesome as well obviously! I just bought a Paiste mellow ride and it sounds and feels so beautiful. My other favorite ride is a K Constantinople thin ride oh or my K dry ride with a rivet and man amazing as well. My hats are old A’s I believe and they sound and feel like butter and a K sweet crash that also sounds incredible.

[@jcsk8]

That HH hi hat is more musical than any top 20 radio anywhere nowadays. Thanks for the valuable tips onto rides. Saved.

[@candlemaniac]

My rock set up is Paiste sound edge hihats, an Istanbul pre split heavy ride and Sabian HH crashes. My jazz setup is istanbul mel lewis hihats, spizzichino ride, and an older canadian Azco ride or an istanbul agop signature.

[@veriodebona3887]

👏👏👏👏Bravissimo, sei nelle mie idee jazz. 🎶🎶🎶🥁

[@JuusoHoo]

Such a great lesson to ubderstand the soul of playing! Thanls a lot I will show this to my nephew as the moment comes to do so. We are starting with bongos and we eill see how the road goes...😂. Throwing the stick!

[@iorijones6351]

Hi Rick, found your video really interesting because I've ben mixing my cymbals for a long time. Those old Ks sound great, and fantastic all together. The advice on hihats brill too.. My first 'real' hihats were newbeats so have a leaning to them, but also gave AAX studio hats, which I also love. Both the hihats you showed were great but so different. I'm out of action with a broken & dislocated left shoulder (slipped hillwalking) 5 weeks ago ... so can't play for a while. All the very best to you and your family, especially with Christmas holiday on the horizon!

[@aaroncarpenter2355]

Oh my word that 18 is insane! Dream cymbal

[@mariolago5655]

Fantastic .. A joy to watch And listen.. Rick you are a full orchestra..

[@rickdior]

Thank you for saying that

[@tedwardsdrums]

Love your playing!

[@rickdior]

Thanks Ted

[@frankniebel502]

Great !! Congrats

[@janetremsing6988]

Super sweet Rick!! 👍🙂

[@rickdior]

Thanks Janet

[@shadowbirdstudio9035]

GREAT ADVISE ALL AROUND

[@pannocchio]

Thank you Rick

[@RepJock88]

Bought a Paiste Masters 22, 2122g online a week ago, and it has a low hum which STAYS low. That low fundamental really helps with blend.

[@BopKitBill]

I like those 15" hats!

[@jimcav1013]

I've just completed putting together a set of vintage Zildjian A's. I just dig the old school jazz sounds they can give. Definitely different than what you played here Rick, not as dry, dark or complex, but they just sound proper to me. Good vid Rick!

[@rickdior]

I have a set of 1950's/60's old A's as well. Great cymbals.

[@jimcav1013]

@@rickdior Glad to see I'm in good company and I'm not the only one that thinks these are great cymbals. Well priced and plentiful too!

[@oliverkerncymbals]

his voice sounds as nice as his playing. good man.

[@kickitt24]

Nice, thanks! Best ride I ever had (stolen) was a 24" A zildjian, no rivets. Another friend in New Orleans had a sweet 22 " A? with rivets, OMG.

[@nunezdrums]

Istanbul Agop are awesome

[@DanielBaeder]

even a frypan sounds good on your hands buddy, awesome playing!!!!!

[@rickdior]

Thanks Daniel, I really appreciate that. Stay well Rick

[@elithepitbulldog2209]

Istanbul Agop 30th anniversary are much more consistent than the old Ks and have that aged feel and sound to them. Right now I’m playing 20, 22, 26 and love it. The new traditional jazz series is nice as well And yes, I own different brands and love them all, including k Constantinople and Sabian Artisan, various Bosphorus, etc It’s a disease for which the only cure is……more cymbals

[@andrewschmal6004]

Did you try out all of them in person before buying?

[@josephbradetich1560]

Happy holiday term misstro

[@nothesamekirk1720]

Makes sense. Back in the day there were no "Crash" cymbals, no "Ride" cymbals, just cymbals. You just had to look through a rack of cymbals and play them until you found one you liked.

[@musicalala]

I have the same size Agop Special Jazz and they are so nice. Mine is very similar to yours. My only complaint is mine has a terrible bell sound. So bad I never use it and regretted buying it for a bit after hearing Agop signature series rides and how good some of the bells sound. The ride characteristics and crashability is fantastic tho so no more regrets. I love your selection of cymbals. I love old lightweight Paiste 602 hats for jazz too 1500+1600g for the pair or so. That's what I play. Great splash.

[@rickdior]

Try putting a small piece of gaffers tape under the bell. That might help.

[@musicalala]

@@rickdior Will do. Thanks.

[@renatopestana9526]

Nice video Rick, amazing cymbals! Have you ever played those K custom dry complex rides? The ones zildjian designed with Bill Stewart. If so, what do you think of them?

[@chrispetersdrummer]

I was just talking to a friend of mine about those cymbals last night. I haven’t heard any in person but he said the only person who can really make those sound good is Bill Stewart haha

[@ben100976]

@@chrispetersdrummer I owned a first version Bill's ride. Really interesting cymbal, but indeed, a wild beast to tame :). I sold it some 2 years ago.

[@paulreed1142]

I wish my Catalina Club bop kit sounded that good!

[@Craigo-xg5mc]

In my experience it’s (almost) all in the heads and tuning.

[@bmac8753]

I wish my playing sounded that good…😕

[@farshimelt]

@@Craigo-xg5mc And the weight of the stick and most importantly the drummer.

[@robertdore9592]

I'm a devotee of Istanbul Agop Cymbals and feel that they're better value that other makes as they're lighter and more colourful. When other makes send a retailer a cymbal tree those instruments are usually rather thick and heavy; I've read that this is because they don't want too many breakages.

[@sleb474]

What the heck is that cowbell sounding cymbal on the right? Thats such a sick piece of hardware!

[@rishipoddar2559]

Too too too good !

[@bruceyork6405]

Excellent, Rick! Love the information. I was glad to see you mention Istanbul and Bosphorus as I’ve added those to my collection over the past year and a half. Love them! I’ve played mainly Zildjian and some Sabian through the years (56 of them). Just this past month, I added a few Paiste cymbals as well (had never played them and was curious). I appreciate your hard work. Keep the videos coming! Just a quick question. I have a 20” Zildjian ping/mini-cup ride that I’ve had for at least 50 years. Recently, it developed some annoying higher pitched overtones you mentioned in this video. It was really getting to me one night during a gig and I looked at my piano player (jazz trio) and he was hearing the same thing (sour look on his face so I knew it wasn’t just me). Could it be it’s just lost that great sound? There’s no damage. Thanks in advance.

[@biodrummindieseler]

Keep in mind that these beautiful, dark sounding ride cymbals sound great in the studio and concert venues with good mics, but when you're playing in a bar or restaurant with a lot of background noise they probably won't cut and you'll be working hard to be heard.

[@rickdior]

Hi OJ I would have to disagree as I use them all the time in Jazz clubs here in NC and before that I used them in NYC for many years as do most jazz drummers. It is the timbre of the cymbal which blends well and does not stick out or call attention to itself. Listen to Elvin with Trane or Tony with Mike's and you are hearing old K's.

[@biodrummindieseler]

@@rickdior Hi Rick, My comment was based on my experience with Kerope, Istanbul Mehmet and Cymbal & Gong cymbals, all 22"s. Compared to what I heard in the store, the cymbals sounded kind of dull, and low in the mix on stage. I was fortunate enough to play an old K on a jam session and was impressed with the perfect amount of high end shimmer that came off of it.

[@thegreatfatsby1912]

those bigger hats were like god speaking. Really.

[@jonathanhomesley4895]

A truer comment has never been posted. My heavens.

[@MP-ju4ol]

So Rick, you have had cymbals or have cymbals that range in years, e.g. 80 year old that you’ve had for 35 years. Where did you get these vintage aged cymbals? Give us your thoughts on vintage hard to find versus new out of th3 box?

[@rickdior]

Hi If you watch my old K Zildjian Video I posted a while back you will hear where I got some of them. All second hand obviously.

[@TheMASDrummer]

Damn Rick, you should be a household name along the likes of Gadd

[@bkt6025]

Rick, do you, or any one out there have any thoughts about type of cymbals to use with acoustic driven music,,using brushes ? Especially the crash, Thanks

[@rickdior]

Hi Thinner is better. You might want to look at some hand hammered cymbals such as Bosphorus, Istanbul, Meinl, etc. Rule is if it reacts well with your bare hand it will sound good with brushes.

[@bkt6025]

@@rickdior thanks for your time and wisdom

[@goseeaboutagirl]

What's that lick/sticking at 6:24? Haha. Amazing sounding cymbals and playing, Rick!

[@rickdior]

Thanks Jonathan I have no idea what I played there but you can slow the speed down and its probably pretty simple as most of what I play is when you slow it down. Stay well Rick

[@goseeaboutagirl]

@@rickdior thank you! Happy Thanksgiving

[@jjmarcos]

Can you explain a little more about cymbal hum? I've tried looking this up elsewhere and there's very little Info about it. I don't really get it.

[@dogmart]

Rick: Since you mention Mel Lewis, what do you think of the current Istanbul Agop Mel Lewis rides?

[@rickdior]

Hi I like the ones I have played but they all sound a bit different as do most hammered cymbals.

[@nunezdrums]

I have two drums, one of them I use only to practice and teach, and the other in gigs. But cymbals never is enough. 😂

[@DavidKrautscheid]

i have a tip for you..if you dont want to spend so much money but you stil want to have the perfect jazz cymbal sound use either wuhan western style medium thins or thins and use 2 14" crashes as a hihat or use either dream bliss crash rides or dream bliss paperthins or vintage bliss. there is no better otion for having good cymbals for a cheap price. but if you want to have the non plus ultra search up zildjian k and cie 1940s era or k constantinople 1930s era...

[@rickdior]

Hi David While I love Dream and Wuhan cymbals and they are definitely a great deal there is a gap in quality if you do a lot of jazz recordings as I do. You might find a really good one if you go through a lot of them (similar to the old K's) but you will be more likely to find a great recording cymbal by sticking with the larger manufacturers. In my opinion.

[@DavidKrautscheid]

@@rickdiori dont like cymbals that have too much bell radiation in the wash and cymbals with too much clanginess and thats why i love the sound of dream, vintage zildjian k and cie or k constantinople and amazing cymbal smith like byrne,thymoty roberts nicky moon (to name a few) but i will stick with dream paperthins cause especially the dream bliss paperthin 22 is one of my most fav cymbal that i have ever heard in my entire 34 years of life

[@matrixmodulator]

3:50 which video about the hum? can you link ?

[@rickdior]

I think it's this one kzbin.info/www/bejne/havIooGgjNmVbK8

[@matrixmodulator]

@@rickdior oh 1hour20 long, probably interesting but if you have an idea about where in the video you talked about this.

[@gabe_iadeluca]

drum heads for bass drum? I'm assuming coated ambassadors

[@drumcoachnyc]

Crazy how close the Istanbul sounds in tone compared to the old K's!!! I guess the Istanbul has more spread because it's hammered less? Maybe because the production costs would be too much with more hammering? Thanks for the video!!

[@rickdior]

Hi All hand hammered cymbals sound very different. I own 7 Istanbul rides and they all sound very different.

[@drumcoachnyc]

@@rickdior Thanks. Love all your videos!

[@luiszuluaga6575]

I am assuming the hum you’re referring to is different from overtones?

[@rickdior]

The hum is a defined pitch that builds up with the wash of the cymbal. It creates a particular pitch that can be very disruptive to the music you are making.

[@rollzolo]

I use the plastic tub that comes with dog poo bags as cymbal sleeves.

[@rickdior]

Hopefully before you have used the bags.

[@elithepitbulldog2209]

And the quieter lower pitch jazz cymbals don’t destroy your ears as easily 😵‍💫

[@josephbradetich1560]

Why do people tape cymbals

[@rickdior]

To cut down on overtones. Best results would be a small piece under the bell.

[@Bigsbeee]

@@rickdior Seen tape under Buddy's - I just bought a 40's Trans Stamp 22'' ride. Wish it was a little darker sounding.

[@drl1046]

Really enjoyed this video. Subscribed!