🇬🇷 Tiryns & Lerna (Myloi), Peloponnese Greece. Hercules and The Origins of Greek Mythology.

[@gregorynixonAUTHOR]

Great talk, my friend. You bring the old stones to life, so you're an excellent tour guide!

[@GreeceExplored]

Thank you, really appreciated, I do agree with you that a lot of the 'core' Greek mythology was developed by the Mycenaeans, I think it is likely, and then adopted by Argos (and others) and hence embellished and developed further for legitimisation of their cities and culture. Of course a lot of Mythology probably originated itself with the Indo-Europeans, and their migrations...

[@gregorynixonAUTHOR]

@@GreeceExplored Yes, that is likely. Since myths are clung to as social identification truths, they may go way, way back...

[@jupite1888]

Excellent As Always and Enjoyable

[@GreeceExplored]

Thanks, as always, your comment is really appreciated.

[@discover_peloponnese]

Another great video! Amazing how these sites are relatively anonymous, considering their historical importance, I guess there are just so many of them in Greece. Have driven by Lerna several times without any idea that it was even there, will definitely check it out when we're back in the summer.

[@GreeceExplored]

Thank you, glad you enjoyed - I think there are loads out there which used to have huge importance and now are ignored, Myloi was a shock to me too, I only read up on it because of the Hydra connection, and I suspect I hardly touched the surface.

[@francoisbouchard9488]

Another great, much appreciated video, especially the tie-in with Greek mythology. Have passed by Tiryns many times on our way to Nafplio, and was always intrigued by this site. Had no idea about the local connection to the myths of Heracles and others. Will make sure to stop by next time. What makes Greece so special is how the physical joins with the metaphysical. A journey of the mind and spirit beyond the material vestiges of the past.

[@GreeceExplored]

That is why I do these videos, selfishly because I am learning and it enables me to better understand and enjoy what is around us, and I find that now others offer me information in the comments to continue that learning!! The Mythological ideas really just formed from 2 years of making these vids, but I plan to touch on more mythology now. It is challenging to find a way to express it with relevance.

[@eddy67]

Your videos are the best dude. My wife and I are going to Greece later this year and staying a few days in Nafplio. Definitely adding Tiryns to the itinerary

[@GreeceExplored]

You will have a fab time, Nafplio is fantastic and a great base for getting out and exploring.

[@清少納言-e1g]

I had been to Lerne last fall. I love there.

[@GreeceExplored]

How did you end up there!

[@liketheroman]

I loved this. Visiting the region next week; sad that I won't be able to visit these sites, but will be thinking of this and looking in the general direction of Tiryns and thinking of the origins of Greek mythology from the tour bus! Thanks for sharing your passion and knowledge.

[@GreeceExplored]

I hope you have a good trip, where are you visiting?

[@liketheroman]

@@GreeceExplored based in Athens, so covering the key sites there, but visiting Meteora, Delphi, Hydra, and hopefully Mycenae. I’m also eyeing a day where I do ancient Corinth in the morning and Cape Sunio for sunset, but I’m holding off on booking as I want to keep a day free in case there are extra bits of Athens that I want to explore once I’m there. Feel free to make suggestions (obvious or obscure!)

[@frankdaneluzzi3503]

You should give private tours, brilliant video!

[@GreeceExplored]

Thanks Frank, always amazes me what surrounds us too

[@geogeo2299]

Perfect video Andrew, I think this definitely is the way to go forward from the expat stuff like visa talk, cost of living etc. and yes, you come 100% ready for it.

[@GreeceExplored]

I feel the need to make a variety now, property, tourism, history, I want to mix it up a bit, and focus on Greece - things I feel comfortable to talk about.

[@geogeo2299]

@@GreeceExplored That would be an interesting mix.

[@SylvanoAbouJaoude-bn7dj]

Thanks for the great explanation

[@GreeceExplored]

Thank you for commenting, they are only my views but glad it made some sense.

[@peterharpas5877]

I'll be in Argos on the 21 July visiting family there. I'm in Australia and I love your passion for this area, I've always said it was underrated. Great video love your channel.

[@GreeceExplored]

Have a trek up to Larissa Castle, it was originally a mycenaean acropolis, and has Hellenic walls incorporated into the byzantine ones. The roman theatre and Agora is under-rated too.

[@peterharpas5877]

@@GreeceExplored I will, I did that back in 1979 , I wish I could live in Greece as you do.

[@GreeceExplored]

@@peterharpas5877 Have a good visit, weather is great at the moment, will be a bit hotter then!!

[@peterharpas5877]

@@GreeceExplored not a problem I love the heat of Greece. God bless you for your replies. All the best to you and your family.

[@andybastos3098]

Fantastic video!! Before the pandemic, I spent a week in Nafplion, rented a touring bike, and rode to Tiryns, Lerna, Mykines, and Archaia Nemea. I totally recommend it. One must see these ancient cities from their vantage points, to understand how close these ancient Greeks lived to each other.

[@GreeceExplored]

Agree, I need to do Archaia Namea too, I will in May. Totally agree, it is only by visiting the sites you can understand the differences, similarities and Geography

[@danielsullivan9271]

This was well done! I love this region, and I want to come back and visit these sites again! I can’t believe it but I have been there nine years ago! This was the first place I wanted to see besides Athens! I went there for a few days as I was living in England at the time. I went in February and it was amazing. I saw No and Athens on the last day. I was leaving in the morning but of course it wasn’t sticking. I know it does snow there at times but I know it rarely and if it does I heard it’s melted by mid morning.

[@GreeceExplored]

Thank you, I am really glad you enjoyed and it brought back some good memories!

[@elg3eco]

Thanks Great Video !,,

[@GreeceExplored]

Thank you, really appreciate your support!

[@alexanderguesthistorical7842]

Although I went to both Mycenae and Tiryns when I went to Greece, one place I missed was MEDEA, about 4 miles away from Tiryns. Medea was the palace of Perseus at one time (allegedly) and is built on the side of a hill. Must go there next time. It does make me wonder if the sea shore went right up to the southern walls of Tiryns in ancient times (?????). Really nice to hear someone who's as passionate about Greek mythology as me, while they're actually there!

[@GreeceExplored]

I intend to go to Midea and Dendra this week, the sea was much closer to Tiryns than today, but it was still reckoned to be a couple of hundred meters from the acropolis itself, which was also surrounded by a settlement outside the walls. Most of the remaining area was very marshy which had a big impact on the whole area.

[@taybak8446]

WOW!!! Excellent video! Best video on Tiryns and Mycenae on youtube. I've watched most as I've been obsessed with Greek myths and history since age 9. Thanks for the academic historical context and your interpretation of the myths in their political historical context. No one else has done that. I plan to visit Tiryns, Pylos, Mycenae, Delphi, Vergina, Pella. Please do a video on Pylos, Iolcus and Dendra. Thanks for focusing on Lerna. Problem is, I do not drive. Will I still be able to visit Denfdera, Tiryns, Lerna, Iolcus, Pylos? I enjoy your enthusiasm.

[@GreeceExplored]

Thank you, really appreciate the comment, as you are obviously an enthusiast. I hope to do more, as I live in Arcadia and am lucky enough to travel around the Peloponnese frequently making videos on historical sites, as you may see from my Greek playlist. I will go back to Pylos, I haven't yet done The Palace of Nestor, and I want to do more on the Mycenaean civilisation, I find it more interesting than even the Hellenic times but of course the 2 are heavily related, with one influencing the other dramatically. I will do more as my learning and thoughts develop, local Geography and visiting, seeing things helps a lot. Being honest, I think to get around those sites without a car will be very challenging. there are tours of course, but you really need your own transport, even a bicycle would help. I would try to avoid the summer though, these sites are very exposed and the heat is brutal, the best time is March / April, or late September / October. I will look at your list and see what I can cover.

[@taybak8446]

@@GreeceExplored Thanks for your helpful reply. Rome2Rio claims I can take a bus to Pylos, Dendra and Iolcus. Do you know if that really is the case? The Odyssey's depiction of Nestor's Pylos and the fact that they discovered clay tablets there hardened by fire relating how invaders' ships were imminent, makes it a must. Dendra is also a must because of Jason, while Dendra has that full body bronze armour. I visited Mycenae as a 13 y.o, but now that I'm 56 I need to revisit it.. If not bus, perhaps they've got Blah Blah or Rideshare? Anyway, just in case you missed this, here's a genetic study carried out in 2017 by Harvard, Max Plank Institute and uni of Tubingen. It shows that the Mycenaens and Minoans shared Neolithic Anatolian farmer ancestry (Pelasgians?), Caucasus hunter ancestry, with the Mycenaeans having some Indo-European steppe ancestry, which the Minoans did not have. So Mary Renault's But from the Sea and King must die were spot on. www.nature.com/articles/nature23310

[@taybak8446]

@@GreeceExplored PS. If you aren't able to access the Nature article, I have access to it via my uni and could send it to you. Cheers.

[@GreeceExplored]

@@taybak8446 Thank you, I will have a read over the weekend, you have got me thinking about other videos. I can't advise on the local busses. I suspect they will be few and very far between. I suggest without a car you may be best getting the Ktel bus to Argos or Nafplio, and then using taxis from there. The good thing is that Mycenae, Dendra, Midea, Et al are all pretty close to each other, Tiryns is only 3km outside Nafplio. you could also connsider a short hike on the Mycenaean Road if you fancied, behind Mycenae. I have a video on that I will publish later in May. Pylos is further afield, and again Ktel busses will take you down there. I had read that many of the female Greek gods probably originated from adaptions of the Indian Gods, and transferred via Indo-European migrations, and was perhaps why the female gods were venerated over the male counterparts prior to the eruption of Santorini, but there are so many opinions of course.

[@taybak8446]

@@GreeceExplored Thanks for the Ktel bus info. I'll bear that in mind. It is said that Dionysus traveled to India before returning to Greece, so perhaps there's truth to the idea that many Greek religious mystery cults were imported from there. And of course, there's Plato's idea on the transmigration of souls. Also, the Near Eastern, but Indo-European Mittani seem to share the same gods as the Vedics. Years ago I corresponded with a Russian archaeology professor Kuznetsov from uni of Volgograd who excavated Bronze Age Indo-European Yamnaya kurgans in Samara, Russia. He theorised that these pastoralists eventually migrated to India via central Asia. His claims have been vindicated by recent genetic studies. It's also claimed by some that the Copper Age Catacomb culture, which is a subset of the Yamnaya from the Pontic Steppe eventually migrated to Greece and became the Mycenaeans. I recall that David Anthony discussed it in his The horse, the wheel and language. I've actually been strongly considering staying 2 nights at Mycenae just to explore the surrounding area, so I'd deffo love to see your video about the Mycenaean road. Also, thinking about spending 2 nights at Delphi to explore the nymphs' cave and trails there. www.amazon.com/Horse-Wheel-Language-Bronze-Age-Eurasian-ebook/dp/B003TSEL1Y/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3KTZVWV5A7KYS&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.m8l0VQAqY7XZosaF_MOpjpgXAdiOAShAo0aMLrAuiBPTu4K5i9KQ7WG6D7c1Qdaq.R0oMFRFGf_3TXvvdj6GBhf-goQJoJVxR6HbvbONhvqo&dib_tag=se&keywords=david+anthony+the+horse+the+wheel+and+language&qid=1714827676&sprefix=David+ant%2Caps%2C595&sr=8-1

[@thedesignerfurnitureco6659]

Brilliant 👍

[@GreeceExplored]

Appreciated. thanks.

[@ΑπόλλωνΘηρευτής]

"Mythology from Mythos", (from the verb "mytheo", meaning to pass something on by mouth, stories that happened in the past, tradition - not lies)... For some who cannot understand the real Greek language and its semiology. Hercules lived in the memory of the Greeks for thousands of years. And that's why he went to the pantheon of mythology. He was the one who saved people many times from the misfortunes that nature gave them. Let's take an example. The legend of Lernaean Hydra tells us by its name that it was a monster that tormented the inhabitants of Lerni, which was a valley and there felled many rivers that flooded the whole area and destroyed property, fields and lives. According to legend, Hercules went to kill the monster that had many heads (many rivers), because Hydra means: "the one that lives in the water or from it". When Hercules thought about the problem, he decided to divert the rivers, so as not to flood the area. But when a river blocked, two others came out on the right and left! Do you remember the story? In the end he managed to defeat the Hydra / water / river (because rivers look like snakes in shape) and save the inhabitants, who told the children and their grandchildren (mythos = history) the miracle that Hercules managed (of course with a group of engineers and workers). www.argolisculture.gr/el/lista-mnimeion/arhaiologikos-horos-lernas-oikia-keramon-ohyromatikos-peribolos/ www.argolisculture.gr/en/ The settlement of Lerna, on the west side of the Argolic Gulf, in the current village of Mylos, is one of the most important sites of prehistoric times in Greece. The use of the site for about 5,000 years, from the Neolithic to the Mycenaean era (6th-1st millennium BC) formed with the successive layers of habitation a low artificial hill. In the deeper layers, houses of the Early and Middle Neolithic period were researched (Lerna: 6th-5th millennium BC).

[@h.-n.a.6630]

I would suggest you to visit a Greek Orthodox Church when a Holy Service takes place (usually 8-9:00), to live the Ancient Drama nowadays!

[@GreeceExplored]

I know what you mean, hard to follow though, I was married in the Greek Church and am still not certain I was ever really married!!

[@h.-n.a.6630]

@GreeceExplored were you previously orthodox both baptised and chrismated?

[@GreeceExplored]

@@h.-n.a.6630 no, wife was,

[@ariskritikos160]

Great video. Just one correction, the Myceneans were not pre-hellenic, they were hellenic. I am talking about 07:20

[@GreeceExplored]

Glad you enjoyed, but we will have to differ in opinion. The Hellenic (or Hellenistic) period in Greece ran from about 323BC though to about 31BC, basically from the death of Alexander to Rome conquering Macedonia. Prior to that we had the classical period and before that the Archaic period. The Mycenaean period predated all of these.

[@ariskritikos160]

@@GreeceExplored Thanks for the answer, but I think you got this wrong. You are talking about Hellenistic period, which starts after the death of Alexander. Hellenic and Hellenistic are different terms. Hellenic covers everything that is greek-speaking. The Myceneans were hellenic but not hellenistic.

[@geogeo2299]

@@GreeceExplored I have to agree with @ariskritikos160 on this one, the Hellenistic period is named thus mainly in regards to what went on outside of mainland Greece, i.e. the hellenization of places like Asia Minor, Syria, Egypt, Libya that were not Greek prior to then. As for the Mycenaeans (and the Minoans) they were nothing else than the Bronze Age Hellenes, though living at a time that the ethnonym had not yet spread to encompass the whole of the Ethnos.

[@gregorynixonAUTHOR]

I think the Bronze Age myths set in Argos actually happened in Tiryns. Argos had only the hilltop citadel of Larissa at that time, so not a real city, while Tiryns was robust. But in the Archaic period, Tiryns was nearly forgotten while Argos had become a major city. Argos needed Bronze Age credentials so "borrowed" many of the Tirynthian myths. Diomedes was actually the King (or Lawagetas) of Tiryns!

[@katakalyptica]

THe Alkyonic Lake - Entrance to the Hades - is a little bit nearer to the sea - when you come from the two holy springs - today the waterpump factories

[@GreeceExplored]

This is the spring by the Water pump building, perhaps 50m from the sea.

[@katakalyptica]

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