The Mofi Situation - My Thoughts - Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab Controversy

[@evanshear5378]

TJR, the issue is they sold thousands of records on the idea they were all analogue. And even when the company knew it wasn't true for all their One Step releases, they said nothing to their customers. They all may sound amazing, but the transparency has not been there. ... For what they are charging, it needs to be.

[@TJRtheOriginal]

I agree.

[@sador42]

The question of what sounds better or how complicated the process is, etc, is not the question that is being asked by a lot of people who are concerned about this issue. The question is, why was the digital step hidden in their marketing materials if it was “no big deal”, or “created a better result”, etc. it’s about being lied to, even if it’s subtle or not legally “false advertising”, once you think you have been lied to or tricked into believing something, that leaves a very bad impression of the people who are doing the “lying” or “stretching” of the truth of the process. They got caught and now they are in damage control. They would not have invited Mike if they did not believe that themselves. They would not be calling other KZbinr’s that made videos if this was not a real problem for them. They would not consider changing their labeling on the website if they did not think that they have been caught doing something wrong. These are all steps to correct a wrong, not steps to say “hey, we know what we are doing and we have been transparent about the process”.

[@sidesup8286]

For the price of 5 audiophile lps, people could upgrade their phono cartridge to some ones that are really amazing, which would make every recprd in their entire collection have way better sound, not just improvements with 5 records. And the improvement a really fine cartridge makes generally dwarfs the amount of improvement that audiophile lps make.

[@mymixture965]

RIGHT, the same what I always preach.

[@firecatfly]

Best explanation of an extremely complicated issue I've heard yet. I have worked in the recording industry since 1975. Analogue was and is a beautiful thing, unless you have to work with it. I remember being mortified by the degradation of signal after even the first dub analogue to analogue. Digital is an amazing thing as it turns audio into something you can physically change--like clay in sculpture--and form it into the perfection you had started out wanting. Great channel my friend, many thanks!

[@TJRtheOriginal]

You’re welcome.

[@Licoricedisc]

Hmmm... Funny thing, Analog Productions, Impex, Sam Records, Intervention Records, Pure Pleasure, ERC, Speakers Corner, Blue Note Classic/Tone Poet, Lost Recordings, Analog Spark, ORG Music, Experience Hendrix, Acony and other labels don't have a problem putting out vinyl using the original master tapes... 100% analog process... Bernie Grundman, Chris Bellman, Kevin Gray, Ryan Smith and other mastering engineers do it everyday, most of their re-issues sound as good or better than originals. Do some reading on the Blue Note Classic/Tone Poet reissues.. some of these tapes are near 70 years old and are in excellent condition.

[@zombiedrummer4life]

@@Licoricedisc When it comes to One Steps for every 1,000 pressed record the tape has to be use. So for example the One Step of Thiller is 40,000 copies. That would mean the tape has to be used 40 times. Sony owns that tape and they are very stingy on their tapes being use so much. All the other companies you mentioned presses records the normal way which allows them to use the tape once and make multiple copies of the stamper. Now MOFI does pressed records the normal way too, but who's to say those aren't a DSD transfer as well.

[@Licoricedisc]

@@zombiedrummer4life If you watch the Chad Kassem interview by 45rpm audiophile a couple days ago you would know that Chad had been making analog records from Sony tapes up until 4 years ago... Just another MoFi lie.

[@mattlonnen8664]

Nicely put TJR. I think the digital vs analogue source argument is a diversion. Ultimately virtually all modern artists vinyl recordings/releases are cut from a digital master, if you want what they hear on studio get the HD on bluray - it’s what I call the vinyl filter that is added during the mastering to vinyl phase that gives the music, new and 😊old, that ‘analogue’ warmth - way more than the source - particularly when we are talking about a virtual digital clone of the original analogue tape. The real issue here is that they have been talking all analogue for years and it appears that there is a major digital step in the process that no one new - this is egg on the face of the audiophiles who have been banging on about the superiority of analogue masters for years. Shame on MOFI though they should have come clean earlier. Cheers Matt

[@incamera1457]

I like your take. What matters is the final result no matter what process. Your observations on the likely digital steps in the Sgt Peppers release are spot on. Confess Giles Martin! We may have to use the comfy chair...

[@thesurfacespins]

However difficult and labor intensive it is to make an AAA all analog record, Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs essentially misled it's customers. In the interview, when Shawn Britton is asked if they work digitally or in full analog he answers very sarcastically, "I'm glad you asked that question, Mike." In other words they are not happy about this information coming to light. They wanted this knowledge to be kept away from the consumer. MOFI should have been more upfront from the get-go and should have been out there championing digital transfer processes all along, instead they duped their customers and now this will hurt their business. I guess they have been reminded that in business, honesty is the best policy. But who didn't know this already? Thanks for the video!

[@davepounds8924]

I find it funny that all these audiophiles who bought these digital sourced records could not tell the difference until Mobile Fidelity said some were digital As. Long as it sounds good

[@Nephilim-81]

I really like where your head is at. Very sensible and clear thinking. I agree with you, TJR. :)

[@billleary5779]

Thanks for sharing this. I have always liked the Mobile Fidelity releases. I have owned the Beatles and Rolling Stones Mofi sets for years and they sound great. This is just my own preference. I have always assumed the recent Mofi releases had some digital sources. I have the Mind Games Mofi release which is cut from the 2002 remix which I am sure was digital and it sounds great to me. We just have to trust our own ears and if it sounds good…that’s all that matters.

[@shpater]

I thank you for your videos about the MOFI issue. The MOFI case is a mirror faced in front of the Audiophile community that reveals the replacement of the main goal of a common audiophile which is the desire for a maximum/best sound quality reproduction with a race after the isosteric hard to get more expensive all analogue process. This has occurred without us the community stop to ask ourself or even worse, when a digital step added to an audio process is ruled automatically to be bad for the whole cutting process even it enables a (no doubt about it) superior one step pressing. no one is evaluating the whole chain. the word digital has blocked the thinking process of the total result. The question have to be asked why MOFI who undouble achieved a higher sound quality (as reported for the Abraxas release for example) had to be vague on the fact they are using a digital process in their updated sound reproduction process? is it because they want to hide a fact they are selling a much easy to produce and inferior "CD on Vinyl" product (the statement is just for the sake of discussion) and continue collecting money with higher profit from the audiophile "suckers"? or maybe is it because Audiophiles community, who their moto is judging a product sonic quality with their own ears will be too shocked to hear (Double meaning... 🙂 ) that digital process exists and add an advantage to the sound quality, in conflict with the community conception which automatically detach a "made from original master" when a step of a super high resolution digital copy is involved? If MOFI would have used a 2nd generation analogue copy, done by MOFI from original master, and not a DSD process, would the Vinyl community have accepted this step because the All analogue purity has been maintained? we have to remember that MOFI have replace the "Father + Mother" steps with a 2nd generation copy so there is an important improvement added to the process together with that 2nd generation added step. Why nobody talks about the total results? why focus only on one (important) added step? why nobody evaluate the 2 choice between a DSD vs a 2nd generation Analogue copy which MOFI has done already for us? So the vinyl community has to first identify if the latest MOFI "one step" process has a total improvement of sound or not, comparing to any process MOFI has presented over the years, and comparing with other companies audiophile releases, of course also with price tag comparison. Last, I present you with the most shocking "Elephant in the room" which no one yet on all the MOFI videos so far has neglected to talk about: In case MOFI "one step" process is found to be actually the best audio quality and efficient way to cut a vinyl from an original master then it means that within the chain of cutting process, The DSD step has the maximum and better sound quality source for the vinyl cut process, better than the vinyl product itself. This has a huge impact on the vinyl industry, because the DSD (or other high res digital file format) can be sold and streamed with even a better quality than that of the best vinyl pressing there is. This means that audiophile vinyl format becomes to be in the third place of the highest audio quality possible (the second place belongs to an exotic, expensive and very limited in quantities direct Reel to Reel studio quality copy of the original master Tape) and 1st audio quality possible to obtain at home would become to be a digital file. This removes the carpet under the whole vinyl industry, or at least the audiophile vinyl industry, and this is in my opinion the real reason for MOFI ambiguity on the cutting process.

[@hubertzawadzki9490]

Your writing about the “Elephant in the room” that no one talks about is so so true. I’m sure it’s in the mind of the Audiophile community and especially the Vinyl Fanatics and they are just too scared to bring it up since it can bring down an entire industry that is being fuelled by greed. It also exposes their embarrassment about not having the ability to detect anything digital.

[@mondoenterprises6710]

I buy $5-6 new and used cds. I'm very happy w/a well mastered cd. I also enjoy records.

[@ArmandoMPR]

I only like to get a select few of my favorite albums on vinyl. CDs are just as good, hell, maybe even better when looking for fidelity. Any format done well is awesome, and digital has nothing to envy analog, imo.

[@louissilvani1389]

On one of my classic recordings in the middle the telephone rings very faintly I want that there I don’t want it removed I guess what you’re saying if they converted to digital they could remove the telephone that rings faintly 🤔

[@map856]

Hi TJR, thanks for sharing your perspective on this controversy. On the subject of the Sgt Pepper 50th Anniversary release, I could be mistaken but my understanding is that Giles Martin had to go back to the pre-master recordings. I believe the process started by making digital copies of those tapes to minimise any unnecessary wear and tear. Going back to the pre-master tapes allowed him and his team to access to 4 track recordings that were subsequently merged (bounced down) originally to a single track to free up 3 tracks for further recording on the 4 track tape machines of the time. Essentially, Giles was able to assemble and mix a new master, bypassing the original master mix. My point however, is that he was working from digital copies of those original recordings. I think that was made clear at the time and if I got that wrong, I’m happy to be corrected!

[@continentalgin]

Yes, it was made clear at the time.

[@brianmedeiros6845]

Great approach on the subject with an open mind. You also mentioned how there’s just something special about the vinyl experience. So my question is has Mofi tarnished that sacred experience? Everyone has there own opinion and know body is right or wrong. They have for me and it’s just getting past that tarnished portion, and do I want to invite or continue to invite that into my vinyl experience? I’m probably feeling better about it and it’s going to take a little more time hopefully I’ll just accept the digital step and move on. Thank You

[@paulaidenmusic]

You’ve influenced me to check out “The Nylon Curtain”which is available on Apple Music in High Definition 24/96 (with animated artwork). Wow!! Amazing album, thanks for that.

[@TJRtheOriginal]

Cool! Glad you enjoyed it.

[@ajmhobby]

Great video! I for one agree, if it sounds excellent, who cares what the source is. I also follow The In Groove KZbin channel and saw his interview with MoFi. I totally get why MoFi does it the way they do. Plus, they use DSD technology (same as SACD) which is superior to PCM digital. Im with you, as good as those MoFi one steps are, they’re way to expensive for me so I’ve been buying the MoFi SACDs.

[@artmanjohn2]

Billy Joel's - The Nylon Curtain was one of the first albums to be digitally recorded, mixed, and mastered digitally to CD! I remember when I bought it on CD back in 1982, it was ground breaking as being a pure digital recording, very rare then. The CD has "DDD" on the CD, they use to do that back then. Means it was It was digitally recorded, mixed, and mastered from beginning to end. So the MFSL vinyl LP is from a digital source, obviously! It was recorded and originally released on September 23, 1982.

[@emilspec1227]

The Nylon Curtain was recorded and mixed digitaly but not for CD. It was only released on vinyl and cassette in 1982. First time it was released on CD was in 1983 in Europe and 1985 in the US.

[@rcarloz]

Mobile INfidelity Sound Lab.

[@67Pepper]

I don't buy their explanation of how difficult it would be to use the Marvin Gaye tapes. Look at what George Martin did during a time when digital was nowhere to be found. Bottom line is that these guys are spoiled with tools that make it easier to do their job and they chose the easy route, not to mention there is a video of them from 2017 stating that there was no digital in their vinyl production process. They lied.

[@borisspantic1333]

They deceived us and they need to pay back all that money.

[@Digital-Swami]

Vinyl from digital files sounds as awesome as vinyl from analog files, the audiophiles proved that. But the Vinyl from Digital DSD files should cost the price of a CD because the process is easier compared to the analog deal. Once the digital files are on Vinyl, the sound is warmer, and different by placebo effect.

[@rikstrange662]

My ears have been damaged so much over the years,that I’m more interested in the sound of the cash register then the sound of Mofi. I rather hear original copies then remastered ones. Just sayin. 🖖🚀

[@Texacate]

I agree that keeping an open mind is a good thing. But it is not possible for a buyer to be open minded about some aspect of a seller' product, when the seller intentionally hides that specific information from the buyer.

[@TJRtheOriginal]

I agree that transparency is essential.

[@mapp4751]

HI i just heard about this recently i have no MOFI lps due to cost and i really do not worry about the source as long as the end product is excellent! but i think to mislead people and charge them premium dollars is the issue here,shame on the company!

[@borisspantic1333]

Mobile INfidelity Sound Lab. We all need to stand strong and boycott this company.

[@bjrnsjohnsen1278]

Nah, they just need to come forward and be transparent in what they’re doing. If that means they can no longer charge $125 for a record, then so be it. We as consumers will all be better for it.

[@380stroker]

How do you have limited runs when you source it off a dsd file? It's a gimmick to jack up pricing.

[@lexpeters735]

To me it's a storm in a teacup! Obviously the so called audiophiles couldn't tell the difference otherwise it would have brought up far sooner than this. The crux of the matter is, does it sound good or not, no matter what the source is. The audio industry has as much snobbery as the wine industry.

[@deantaylor1512]

There lying.. full stop .. do you like being lied too?… I don’t …

[@JBLClassic]

He said Thriller sounds amazing, but this whole episode has probably demolished the potential sales they would’ve had for this. I imagine there will be sealed copies of this floating around for a long time.

[@TJRtheOriginal]

We will see. If they lower the price, I might get one.

[@machavez00]

If you haven’t already watched this, take the time to do so. It discusses how older and aging analog masters are developing playback issues, and how the plangent process is rescuing these masters for the future. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hajMnWyefa-VnqM

[@Jonny_C73]

I don’t think this has to do with the sound at all. Ask yourself this…If 15 years ago, MoFi would have stated that the original masters are dumped to 4xDSD, and that is the actual source , would they have been able to charge the prices they have been? And keep on raising prices like they have been? The answer to that is absolutely not. And therein lies the problem. Not only did they deceive their customers, but as the preeminent player in this field for decades, they set the standard for almost all other manufacturers…including price!

[@continentalgin]

Nothing to see here, folks, move along, move along.

[@Licoricedisc]

You made a video about much of what you don't know. People are not pissed about the digital aspect... I have both.. it is about the Fraud involved. Here is a list of CURRENT Labels that most all, if not all, of their releases are 100% Analog CUT from the Original Analog tapes... and they are very open and informative about the whole process: Analog Productions, Impex, Sam Records, Intervention Records, Pure Pleasure, ERC, Speakers Corner, Blue Note Classic/Tone Poet, Lost Recordings, Analog Spark, ORG Music, Experience Hendrix, Acony and others. Recording/mastering engineers such as Bernie Grundman, Chris Bellman, Kevin Gray, Ryan Smith and many more master all analog vinyl...NO digital, everyday! They are the best of the best at this and they use the original analog reels ... some almost 70 years old... most in great condition. Your claim that if you want to hear an analog Lp you must get pre-digital age vinyl is ridiculous and a very ignorant thing to say! First... MoFi and their 'engineers' have been claiming ALL of their vinyl is 100% analog all along... and when they were questioned if any digital was used, they would deny. This has been going on for years... this is FRAUD and was GREED pure and simple. The video you reference of Mike interviewing the 3 MoFi engineers was them and MoFi doing damage control... and controlling the situation and giving a bunch of BS... yes.. this was a BS interview... they are the face of MoFi and have been since the 80's, remember? They represent MoFi and have been for many years and given interviews representing MoFi many many times.. and lying in these interviews. Also, MoFi customer service has repeatedly claimed that ALL Original Master Recording labeled vinyl is 100% analog... no digital. If you truely want to be enlightened on the true facts, I suggest watching Poetry on Plastic's video... Michael (yes, another Michael :) ) Did a very thorough job and showed facts... what is especially interesting is the 2017 MoFi interview @ 32:05 time mark. You really should watch this video, here is a link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iWfOd4WHbrOHetk

[@oldskool1979]

You guys honestly thought modern vinyl is analog sound from start to finish ? ahaha

[@emilspec1227]

There's few audiophile labels at the moment that are completely analogue, Blue Note Tone Poet and Classic releases are mostly all analogue unless the original was recorded digitaly.

[@Mooseman327]

There are MANY all-analog companies who do their work with transparency so that their customers know exactly what they're buying. Among these are Analog Productions, Impex, Sam Records, Intervention Records, Pure Pleasure, ERC, Speakers Corner, Blue Note Classic/Tone Poet, Lost Recordings, Analog Spark, ORG Music, Experience Hendrix, Acony, etc. They also charge less for these analog recordings, which cost more to produce than digital ones, than MOFI charges for its fake analog products. MOFI has been ripping people off for decades. If they go out of business, that would be completely on them.

[@Mooseman327]

A lot of people paid MOFI premium money because they were misled (by MOFI) into believing they were buying all-analogue products. Analogue recordings are qualitatively different from digital recordings. On top of that, analogue recordings are more expensive to reproduce on vinyl. On top of that, analog recordings are limited quantitatively. Tape deteriorates. Digital recordings can be reproduced almost limitlessly. For all these reasons, you can (and should), charge more for truly analogue recordings. MOFI was charging analogue prices for digital products. Their customers were misled. Class action lawsuits are on their way.

[@thermionic1234567]

If they are going to use a digital stage, then the final product should be digital as well. Their GAIN System CDs were very good. LPs should be entirely analog…

[@emilspec1227]

Dear lord...

[@briannewell6064]

Why does everything have to be so hard? Waaaah!

[@Fontsman]

These remasters are a bit of a mixed bunch. Best spending time if possible getting original pressings. How could all these remasters be running the master tapes ad infinitum? These are old and delicate tapes that studios guard very carefully. Unless you have access to the original multitracks to make a new analogue master. It's obvious that high res digital must be involved.

[@debessar95]

The Beatles In Mono vinyl box set 2014 got a digital treatment as they mentioned in leaflet for Please Please Me. Thus, this is not an analog mastering at all. Don't be fooled by the name. All the vinyl purists have been exposed as a bunch of liars.

[@stefannenkov8679]

TJR, Why are we listening to vinyls? What is the main characteristic of the vinyls? Why are we buying vinyls but not CDs. The answer is clear because we assume that the vinyls are representing analog music. CDs are are representing digital music. If vinyls are digital and we actually found out that why not buying CDs. This is at least a shame. To sell fake vinyls for $120 instead of selling same CDs for let’s say $25. Think about it.

[@emilspec1227]

We play vinyl because we enjoy the ritual and inconvenience of the little black disc.

[@bjrnsjohnsen1278]

I wonder if the purists think less of some of these titles they now know are not all analog, it would still sound the same but mind/ear sometimes plays tricks on us. Audiophile or audiophool? :)

[@TJRtheOriginal]

You are right. The mind does play tricks on us. This is why I am always so careful when I do my CD to Vinyl comparisons. The recent 50th anniversary re release of Marvin Gaye’s “What’s Going On” was advertised as sourced from the original master tapes and it is without a doubt on of the best sounding vinyl records I have heard. If I found out that it was digital or had digital steps, I would still love it all the same.

[@Stonecutter334]

Its a scandal. They lied. Thats it.

[@mymixture965]

I think you are a little naiv about this, this is a very serious case and this will harm MoFi´s business. Btw, they would not run the OG master 40.000 times, 40 times for every stamper, one stamper for 1000 pressings. But even 40 times would be way too much. I also think Mofi went digital for cost and easiness, they did it anlog before, before digital was available, so please don't believe that it would not be possible.

[@TJRtheOriginal]

Yes. Last night (after posting this) I realized my mistake and that I misunderstood this one aspect of the process regarding how many times the tape needed to be run. Thank your for “informing me” vs “crucifying me” in regards to this. I do appreciate it The next point you bring up is debatable, but certainly valid. If they could do it all analog then, why not now? And cost and efficiency are valid points to your argument. It could also turn out that the answer would be: “Yes, we could go that extra 5 miles, but the end result would take longer, cost more (something we would have to pass on to the consumer) and the end result would be no different (or even potentially not as good). And I point to the answer they gave Mike (from the In Groove) when he asked about making an analog tape from the master tape (Something he theorized in his initial video where he first dropped the bomb about all of this) and their response was “We've tried that in the past, and it didn’t sound as good”. I am not saying that you are wrong and I am right, I am saying that these are all possibilities. I don’t work there (and I assume you don’t either) so all I can do is speculate. But as I watched the interview with the three engineers, I kept relating their work experiences to my own, and I know felt myself relating to that feeling of having to tell someone “all the things you are suggesting...We’ve tried already and we’ve found that this way works the best”. But I understand where you are coming from. Perhaps Mike will get the chance to go back to them and ask them more questions like the one you brought up (which is a great question and one that should be asked).

[@mymixture965]

@@TJRtheOriginal Nobody knows the truth, absolutely. I am just a little harder on them :-) It is a little like the diesel scandal with Volkswagen, they cheated, lets see what customers think and if they forgive. I never bought them, not because of the price, I don't like this "audiophile" sound, not real to me. As a musician I have my own thoughts about sound, that's just me.

[@Frip36]

So this guy gives Mofi a break because the process is too hard to explain to customers? Einstein's theory of relativity can be summarized on one page. Record-making isn't string theory. 14:25.

[@TJRtheOriginal]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/r4jJkKqGgqmJa5o

[@andrewlittleboy8532]

I’m sure they used to be all analogue years ago. They still sound superb and still better than the digital counterparts.