TLOU Part II is my Favorite Stealth Game of the 2020's

[@henrryeaeaea]

The discussion around TLOU2 has revolved so much about it's story that I always felt that people don't grasp how mechanically deep the game is

[@Indigo_1001]

Absolutely, The amount of people I seen say TLoU2 gameplay is bad and that it “plays itself” it’s mine blowing

[@nickhard7615]

I feel like the gameplay alone is why it deserved all of them awards

[@BlueRanger57]

Although you could argue it clashes against the game's themes, I've been enjoying the Roguelite mode for that very reason. Combat is tense, but runs don't go on for more than an hour or so.

[@civilwarfare101]

Welcome to the "gaming community" where story, visuals, and dialogue discussion regin over anything gameplay related. Truth be told, most people who talk about games don't like talking about gameplay.

[@Indigo_1001]

@@bogjesrbin484 I’m sorry but this was NEVER true to ANY game. Since forever people ALWAYS said that “gameplay is more important then story” in all my years they was ALWAYS the sentiment . But for the first time ever with TLoU2 people are suddenly saying “story as as important” give me a break with this had fair criticism

[@grahamiest]

TLOU2's gameplay is so incredible. The shooting and stealth transition so seamlessly, the combat arenas are dynamic, and the survival horror resource management heightens the tension in an already stressful game. Super happy to see you covering this!

[@user-eg8yc8ew2b]

I was so nervous during my first playthrough I always caught myself taking huge sighs of relief after an encounter was over lol

[@Tourettes-syndrome-gaming]

lol true

[@Michael-mz1bg]

No other game made my heart race like this one

[@IoeYabuki-jn8uc]

@@Michael-mz1bg boutta play LOu2 after finishing part 1, which is my favorite game of all time. REsident evil 2 is my seocond favorte

[@TheHiddenOne690]

yes yes yes! TLOU2 is such a great stealth game. Pretty underappreciated in a way too

[@elusivent]

You should cover it on your channel

[@ghostwhencodghosts9114]

If only story wasn’t dog shit

[@Comicbroe405]

​@@ghostwhencodghosts9114 Not everyone thinks that so it's fine.

[@oukeith]

The general gameplay for TLOU2 is incredible and doesnt get much appreciation because people crap on the story so much.

[@imjustagirlnotathreat2289]

I totally agree on TLOU2. Stealth and survival horror are my favorite genres and i hate how stealth games have faded into obscurity.

[@salesir6502]

the best stealth game?? did you forget Gollum came out after 2020?

[@DarthTingleBinks]

I think the word he used is favorite. Very different word, if you didn't know.

[@glibchubik4090]

Bro I know you're joking but that game closes the studio 😭

[@chrisj320ac3]

@DarthTingleBinks /whoosh

[@DarthTingleBinks]

@@chrisj320ac3 How can I do a whoosh if I had insufficient knowledge to do a whoosh. I don't even know what Gollum is. I was just correcting the language.

[@eoinsmith15]

@@DarthTingleBinks That's why you don't comment and reply to people when you have insufficient knowledge

[@slickstar96]

People say TLOU 2 gameplay is outdated and it brings nothing new to the table in terms of a sequel but in that same sentence complain that same gameplay is not in the remake. so which one is it outdated or not...? people cannot put their hate for the story aside...

[@Indigo_1001]

When they say “it bought nothing to the table as a sequel” I really wonder what imaginary video game sequels they have in their head when they say that For a sequel is dramatically improved in the base foundation of the first game. It’s like every time TLoU2 is brought up I am transported on a parallel reality with standards are completely backwards

[@maboilaurence8227]

The good criticism is that although the gameplay is very good, Naughty Dog has relied on the same formula in their games for like more than a decade now, so it's far from innovative. But hey, if it works it works I guess. Those who say the game is not good from a technical point of view are just wrong, it's undeniably good, and this is coming from someone who didn't enjoy the game at all due to the bad writing and dialogues.

[@nood1le]

Come on man we've been playing games for years now. You should know by now all games are the same just with a new coat of paint. Rarely do we get those innovative games.

[@1chibanKasuga]

They are both basic but tlouf 2 has more stuff. Btw basic doesn't mean bad 😉

[@jenishmaharjan9655]

the same people who say ghost of tsushima has better stealth system, when all that game offers is terrible ai, handful of op tools u have no worry of running out, multi kills, and worst of all, game is so piss easy head on, stealth is useless

[@wrath495]

It's fun to see a video solely about the gameplay of the game. I clocked in 300 hours on this game, I did 3 playthroughs, 1 of them a failed permadeath one, but where most of those hours were spent, was simply choosing my favorite encounters of the game with the best lvl design and challenging myself in different ways when playing them. It's incredibly surprising but also satisfying how well the stealth and action gameplay are merged together with the player being able to smoothly transition from one to the other in real time, thanks to that incredible ai. It's also helps a ton with immersion when playing, you feel like what you would assume a survivor would feel when inhabiting this world, taking whatever enemy you absolutely have to head on, running for your life into some grass underneath a bed or a car, while frantically going through your inventory trying to craft something that will help you and give you a small window of opportunity again with whatever you found on your way to your hiding spot. Whats so impressive is that while animations are slow, when a player knows what he's doing, you can make all of these actions look so smooth and cinematic, you won't really find gameplay quite like it anywhere else. This game's gameplay massively exceeded my expectations and helped immerse me in the world and its characters way more than I expected it to!

[@nickhard7615]

The Last of Us 2 is the closest to a Manhunt 3 we'll ever get and it's my favorite for it

[@madalindragan9569]

I always said that because everyone was so focused on the story of the 2 tlou games, they didn't notice they were playing manhunt. Even more than that, Factions is a manhunt multiplayer. Best multiplayer ever! Forever sad that we didn't get another one

[@NexusKin]

The Last Of Us is also the closest to a Condemned Criminal Origins sequel that we'll ever get.

[@ethanhernandez9889]

Ellie even basically wears the same outfit as Cash in manhunt 1

[@anotherrandomguy8871]

I’m gonna be honest I played Manhunt 1 for only a bit and I didn’t think it was that gory despite the hype for it, but it was pretty gritty with some stealth. Anyways you are correct, this game is the closest we’d get to Manhunt 3.

[@MikeVestering]

I agree this is SUCH a great stealth game I love how it feels so visceral. Your decisions in every moment feel so important and both patience and strategy are encouraged sooo well. The brutality and sadness of it all also really adds to the whole experience of being alone and scared fighting against the humanity of both your opponents and yourself!

[@elysianpositron661]

Even if you think the story is a 0/10, Part 2 wipes the floor with Part 1 in every other category.

[@benjaminstiles]

True dat

[@yoav3960]

in every category*

[@theninjamaster67]

I'd personally say the game is overly long which makes gameplay feel kinda repetitive by the time you actually finish, the first game didn't feel like it had a wasted moment because it was more linear, simplistic, and short in a good way as to not overstay it's welcome. Horse riding despite being well done in the feel of it feels like a bit of a waste of time when the maps you do it on are so empty or linear hallways disguised as nature where you ride slowly and talk to your companion in what could've been a short cutscene or chase someone in what could've been a short cutscene. Despite being a bigger game Last of Us 2 seems to have more stuff that feels like a waste of time like the playable guitar I'm sure some poor developer spent weeks of crunch time working on and bigger emptier maps that are bigger when walking on foot but once you add a horse to ride around on feel small. The maps in the first may have been small but at least they just lead from point A to point B to get you to the next cutscene or the fun combat (which granted is definitely better in the second). The boring puzzles that end up feeling even worse than the ones in Last of Us 1 cause at least with those you were getting Ellie somewhere she couldn't reach but now you're plugging in some power cords to open a gate or use as a rope swing. Ultimately it feels like the game could've and should've been cut in half to make two games with how long it is especially since story wise Abby ends up being a rather underdeveloped character with an underdeveloped story of how life was with her father and the Fireflies and underdeveloped story of how she's basically the adoptive mother of a small boy now (which legit those two plots separately could've been two games as long as the last of us 1 on their own) and somehow a rushed ending which is some kinda paradox since everything else takes so long but you fly through the ending. Now I've saved the most important aspect that was way worse for last.. the working conditions the devs should not have needed to crunch so hard for such a flawed game or just in general for any project, manage your shit better and don't let scope creep make it where your workers gotta go overtime.

[@sk8ermGs]

Yeah it’s why I couldn’t play the last of us remake, without the dodge and everything else couldn’t do it.

[@theninjamaster67]

@@sk8ermGs To be fair Joel is an older heavier character Ellie is a light little 20 something year old woman while Joel is a large middle aged man.

[@Nonexistentialism]

I particularly love the way the enemies in the Last of Us II hunt you down. Insulting you, being cheap and vicious. It’s just a brutal game, and I think it reinforces the themes the story is going for, of empathizing with pain, but realizing that more pain doesn’t create a better world.

[@niccoloconticelli6117]

The "discourse" around the story of this game succeeded to bury the fact that the gameplay of tlou2 is one of the best things TO talk about this game. Especially at grounded difficulty the game really shines. One of the best panic inducing-stealth experience out there. Too many people talk about the feature of enemy calling themselves names to invoke some sort of guilt in the player and completely fail to address the fantastic and realistic way the AI tend to respond to the player actions. It makes you feel as close as fighting against other humans not only in hearing them talk but also in behavior (obviously in game terms. it will be realistic up to a certain point or no game otherwise). I've done my first playthrough on grounded and although i recognize that this is not the way will suggest anyone to experience it, it Shure was the perfect way for a stealth fan. Especially because is the first time, the high difficulty increased the panic of not knowing against how many people i was facing, the exact route to go, that was more horror that any monster at any giving time. i had no resource and i had to make it do. really great experience.

[@niccoloconticelli6117]

and even if it was a tech demo can i not appreciate the tech?. I respect your opinion but to me art is multy layered and especially games are made from so many parts that even if -A- part of it is uninspiring or insufficient that not equal to an overall bad experience. :) @@bogjesrbin484

[@Indigo_1001]

@@bogjesrbin484 My dude SINCE WHEN you can’t enjoy a games good gameplay because of the story? You are telling me you never enjoyed a game that had great gameplay and a bad story. You gamers are so fake

[@civilwarfare101]

@@bogjesrbin484 You don't play tech demos last I checked. If you want a good story, watch a show or movie.

[@jorgewithaj98]

@@Indigo_1001not when it’s a story-driven game. I agree with you but I also get the other person’s point of view.

[@Indigo_1001]

@@jorgewithaj98 But it’s still a game in the end of the day. I didn’t like the story, was hard to sit through but I really liked the gameplay. I replayed it skipping all the cutscene and just going through the counters.

[@ANGELOFDARKification]

The fact that every enemy has a specific face and look is so cool. I was hoping it would play out in the story when you see the bodybags as Abby

[@SidPhoenix2211]

See, this is why I am often confused when some folks say that Abby's section of the gameplay is better cuz it's got more setpiece or traditional action. Cuz to me what TLoU is really about, from a gameplay perspective, is underdog stealth action. And the encounters that Ellie has (especially the ones set in a large arena with a lot of human enemies) are straight up the best instances of gameplay.The levels, the loadout, and even Ellie's vibe... They all lend themselves PERFECTLY to top-tier, intense stealth-action Especially on harder difficulties, that stuff is TENSE. Love both games ✨❤️

[@nood1le]

Well both sections are different so it just comes down to preference.

[@grackleboi2523]

Ellie's gameplay feels more stealth heavy because of her load out to me. Encounters with her feel very cat and mouse. Dipping in and out of stealth and doing hit and runs,at least that's how I played it. Abby's gameplay to me felt similar, but noticeably more aggressive, as her load out is louder on average and she has a bunch of upgrades for close quarters combat. It still feels like cat and mouse, but the mouse in this case is like super buff. Ultimately, I like playing both of them.

[@1chibanKasuga]

I played on max difficulty so i played abby nore stealth bc i became better lol

[@jenishmaharjan9655]

abby still needs to be smart about what she needs to use tho

[@dudu_tuga_2002]

This game is my favourite, it's actually crazy how a non stealth game can have better stealth than most stealth games. For me TLoU has one of the most satisfying gameplays ever, I also love the story, but that's irrelevant for this topic. Loving this vids Jay, thank you for doing them!

[@1chibanKasuga]

Its a stealth game ...

[@jimmymurphy898]

It's my favorite game of the 2020s period. Absolute masterpiece narratively and gameplay wise. Not as good as Rdr2 imo but then I remembered that came out in 2018 lol.

[@Mattened]

Better than RDR2, both the combat and story.

[@jimmymurphy898]

@@Mattened Ehh not in my opinion. I prefer the storyline of Rdr2 by quite a lot. Arthur Morgan and the rest of the members of the Van Der Linde gang are my favorite videogame characters ever and I prefer the slower pace of Rdr2 over Tlou2. Is the gunplay of Tlou2 more satisfying? I would say yes but I prefer literally everything else in Red Dead. All the subtle interactions with npcs and having so much depth with every character even minor ones like Hamish Sinclair, the veteran. Amazing game but Tlou2 would have been better in my opinion if it slowed down more like Red Dead. I wanted the dance in Jackson with Ellie and Dina at the end to be more than a cutscene. In Rdr2 you can dance with Mary Beth in chapter 2 during a camp party and it's part of the gameplay.

[@cutunconscious4265]

The stealth in this game is great. Every encounter is a giant puzzle. I love getting through entire encounters without killing a single enemy on Grounded Permadeath. It is its own kind of high. I’ve seen dozens of unique strategies for every encounter.

[@merk2364]

I've always thought it was strange how people would just write off the gameplay of last of us 2 as outdated when as a sequel to the first the gameplay was a pretty large upgrade.

[@allandm]

The no return mode really shows how amazing the gameplay is

[@Whyisme23]

The one gripe I have with TLOU2's gameplay is that weapon upgrades just feel so unimpactful, especially in grounded. I think this is just because Naughty dog wanted to implement a RE4 style upgrade system but the slow and methodical combat in TLOU2 just doesn’t compliment it well.

[@unioneye1087]

I hope this video pops off because i like Jay

[@TheTrueThomayo]

Whoa! I like Jay too

[@niccoloconticelli6117]

man i can't wait i too like jay

[@halpamakkara5438]

I must say that I look forward to every single video that you make. TLOU 2 is a nice suprise, keep up the good work!

[@Garbageman28]

genuinely some of the most fun/well designed levels of any third person shooter imho. Its wild because Uncharted is like the furthest dissoance i've had with playing a character and tlou2 is the closest. Just mentally calcuating if i've enough bullets to take out these two wlfs approaching, if i'll have to make bombs, do i have the time to make said bombs etc. SO so so so good.

[@NexusKin]

Uncharted is more of an over-the-top setpiece-focused 3rd-person action cover shooter series, whereas The Last Of Us is definitely more of a hardcore strategic survival horror stealth series.

[@theninjamaster67]

@@NexusKin Man the devs should hire you to describe their games for them on the store page cause calling them both "action adventure" does not line up.

[@jaysonagli6210]

Closest thing to MGSV since it's release in 2015, and nothing else is even in the same space. No Return mode has been an excellent addition to allow us to fully utilize its systems.

[@thelastpersononearth9765]

Hitman WOA and TLOU2 are pretty much the only newer games with high focus on stealth. Maybe count AC Mirage as well

[@idestructiiion974]

Its better since there is hand to hand combat aspect aswell and advanced AI

[@nood1le]

Metal Gear is a wack ass game

[@jaysonagli6210]

@@nood1le I disagree strongly but to each their own

[@hadesmadedat]

@@nood1le nope

[@enman009]

Your observations about horror and stealth are so spot on, since Thief The Dark Project used horror through environmental storytelling, which contextualized the gameplay. As for the stealth not being talked about enough, I think it is because a lot of the TLoU2 is cutscenes or on rails tailing sequences. Which makes encounters 1/3 of the game or far less.

[@BIGxBOSSxx1]

The hate for this game is 100% undeserved there’s a difference between hating a game because the story is bad and hating the game because the story didn’t go in the direction YOU wanted it to. The game is damn near perfect from the gameplay to the story idc what anyone says.

[@Lior__plays]

The gameplay its still unmatched till this day

[@PINKAS1]

Great video man, agreed the great stealth and gameplay of TLOU2 got buried by the story discussions

[@billydrink]

I find it curious that you didn't mention the batman arkham games. I suppose they don't fit your definition of "traditional stealth" but the sheer amount of tools and approaches open the way for so much creativity, especially in knight which isn't even 10 years old.

[@sosaysjay]

I have discussed Arkham in my other videos, but this video was specifically to discuss the lack of stealth games in the 2020s

[@Moonshine449]

@@sosaysjayYou should definitely check out the Dishonored series

[@sosaysjay]

@@Moonshine449 I've fully platinumed the Dishonored series

[@Moonshine449]

@@sosaysjay W I’d say its in my top 10 game franchises

[@sosaysjay]

@@Moonshine449 It's a good one. Which one is your favorite? I think I lean toward Dishonored 2 for the crack in the slab and the clockwork mansion.

[@Weighty68]

TLOU2 is one of my top 3 favorite games of all time and I appreciate you making a vid highlighting just how finely tuned its systems are to making an immaculate stealth-action experience. It's crazy how this game is a culmination of all the lessons Naughty Dog, as a studio, has learned across decades yet it still feels wholly, originally its own even when compared to the first game or its remake. Certain additions like prone or the dodge or finally letting infected and human encounters happen unlike the first game (outside of Left Behind) really lend it a feel unlike any other especially when considered alongside the emotional core of its narrative. I just love how Ellie and Abby have different gameplay motives that are eeked out of players by incentivizing them to take advantage of their arsenal and semi-roleplaying the way Ellie or Abby would consider tackling an encounter themselves. Masterful stuff.

[@jesustyronechrist2330]

Honestly, the #1 thing that I NEVER hear anybody talk about stealth games which is one of the most fun parts about them: Voyerism. Best parts of any stealth game is just skulking and eavesdropping the random conversations the enemies have. Chaos Theory and new Hitman do this wonderfully. I don't think most stealth games leverage this at all. They just have enemies "patrolling" instead of living.

[@BenDover-k1e]

Sekiro does this pretty well.

[@TheRealBooper]

tlou2 is easily the best game because the story and gameplay are just so solid

[@JJJ-uo2xb]

As someone who absolutely hated the story of this game, I still beat it 4 times because it is in my top 3 best feeling shooters of all time. The gunplay is perfect, the AI can be down right oppressive on higher difficulties, and the enemy variation is top notch. Love the rogue like mode they added on the PS5 "remaster" ha

[@michael04__806]

Yeah I agree with everything you've said. Recently beat both games back to back, finishing Part I for first time on Grounded, and Part II for the first time ever - on hard mode. I'm now contemplating replaying Part II on grounded as an excuse to experience it again, like this really shows how addicting both the story and gameplay is.

[@glibchubik4090]

People have been waiting for different ports of Sony games, me personally tho- TloU2 is where it's at. Not only does it look like the most polished third person shooter (a dying breed of games nowadays) since Max Payne 3, the stealth also seemed like something fun to play. Glad you brought up the gameplay, because as you said, conversations around the game are primarily story-focused, it's not always like we're discussing a movie and not a damn videogame 😂

[@jassykat]

TLOU2 has the smartest enemy AI in any video, btw.

[@moisesfreire6408]

A Plague Tale Requiem is another fairly good recent pure stealth game. Is not as mechanically advanced as TLOU part II - yet VERY pretty - but one single guard can track you down for the entire map if they find a recently killed corpse not forgetting like many games. But if you manage to make the rats kill the enemy the rest would not try to find you since it was an "accident".

[@Waddehaddeduddedaa]

True words. TLoU II is such a unique game, its gameplay quality is still unmatched I think. I'm surprised of how little of it has been implemented in other games that came out after it.

[@AKblackandredYT]

Great video. I've talked about the gameplay and game design in TLOU a lot, and as someone currently taking on grounded permadeath challenges it's something of a special interest, so it's great to see such an insightful discussion of it here.

[@rutherhood5961]

Love it or hate it, this game has been spoken about long after release and will always stand as a large definitive game of the 2020’s

[@Indigo_1001]

I agree. It’s ironic seeing Twitter morons say how the game had no cultural impact while non stop talking and bitching about the game, even 4 years later

[@urbiznesnunuv6938]

Once I played a game before the release of the last of us part 2 by a studio other than a game by naughty dog- specifically the rise of the tomb raider I realized no game has ever done this level of stealth and ai before and has created a new standard for both in my opinion.

[@Mattened]

I still play this game's encounters all the time. Such satisfying gameplay, especially on grounded.

[@elusivent]

The AI doesn't get praised enough, especially the enemy AI like the wolfs or the scars/seraphites. Thats some of the BEST ive seen. Edit: i commented before watching. Im glad to see you cover the AI

[@blinded2329]

Finally someone who appreciates this games mechanic as much as i do

[@kittylemeu1373]

Fun fact, when doing a stealth kill, moving the analog stick makes your character adjust their kill in thad direction, moving in the direction you press.

[@The_Claymores]

seen lots of gamers assume last of us gameplay isn't deep because of how amazing the graphics are. But it turns out its a rare case where a game looks almost photo-realistic AND has amazing gameplay (stealth and AI as you've discussed, rewarding gun upgrades, crafting system, very satisfying gunplay, interesting puzzle design, etc)

[@mkwsoxfan]

The combat is what makes me feel addicted to the last of us, while most people are talking about story and writing the gameplay is simple yet engaging. I knew when I played the subway tunnel encounter where it's WLF vs Ellie vs Infected that this game was different. I grabbed a wlf hostage and held him until an infected came up to us and you literally feed the wlf to the clicker. They literally thought of everything in terms of freedom in the sandbox. There isn't a million guns/utilities/abilities you just get a handful of each and it's executed beautifully

[@mgabravanel]

Common So Says Jay W

[@help533]

Last of us 2 is interesting in the sense of its better in literally every single way compared to the first game in terms of gameplay. But it's still one of the most contentious sequels ever made. Never seen a game people hate or love more

[@samdelongforgeeks]

easily dive go prone. Hide in grass, while prone. Hid under cars. Corner take downs. I think the mark of a good steath game is how easily you can re enter stealth after being discovered, and Last of Us Part 2 nails it.

[@jojonr619]

I’ve been trying to get 100% trophy completion in few playthroughs which means I’ve been doing a grounded new game plus play through with Permadeath on (per chapter because I’m not a masochist) and I’ve grown a huge appreciation for everything surrounding the combat and gameplay of the last of us too. I have never been more immersed and stressed out in a video game. And while I’m only halfway through my play through I am so very excited. For the next naughty dog game to take the stealth/combat/shooting even further

[@thedeepball]

Hey Jay, I just want to say thank you for making these videos. It's wonderful to see someone really go in depth the way you do consistently, combined with the beautiful presentation from the smooth and relevant visuals down to your ASMR-like tone of voice. Please keep it up! Also, could you one day make a video about Assassin's Creed Odyssey? I've made it through 2/3 of your videos now and nearly all the AC ones which was the initial draw for me, and you've mentioned Odyssey several times in a few of them. I started playing AC in 2011 shortly after Revelations came out, I saw its trailer and went back to the first Assassin's Creed and had a blast playing through that and the Ezio trilogy, and I've kept up with the series since then. I have enjoyed every mainline game, some more than others, and I've definitely loved a few. My personal favorites (so far) are Brotherhood, Black Flag, and Odyssey. I like your videos regarding some of the unfortunate negative aspects of the series (i.e. Unity, Valhalla), and how you keep a level head and never fail to point out the positives as well. But I also enjoy your videos where you point out the positives and the things you like (i.e. Syndicate), and your videos where you ask questions and dive deep into trying to find the answers. I guess the common thread here is just that I like your videos and I'm always excited for more. But specifically I'd love to see you cover Odyssey more than any other because as you've noted before, Odyssey caused a particular rift in the AC community more than any other in the series (at least from my perspective), and as I noted, it's one of my personal favorites. I'm not sure what your take would be overall even though it seems that you enjoyed that game too, but no matter what it is, I'm interested to find out and to see someone discuss it at the caliber that you do. I apologize that this isn't related to the topic you covered in this particular video, but I figured you'd be more likely to see this given that this is your most recent output. Regardless of what you decide to do, I'm excited as always to see what you'll do next. Thanks again Jay, and do take care of yourself 😊

[@sosaysjay]

That is all very kind of you, thank you. Odyssey is the game that got me through the pandemic, I couldn’t get enough of it when I first played it. Initially I skipped it due to lack of interest at that time in my life, but a couple years later I was very happy I picked it up. It’s on my list of videos I want to make. I’m not sure if it’ll come soon as I have some other things I’ve been working on, but I’m sure it’ll pop up as a topic regardless.

[@thedeepball]

@@sosaysjay I mean every word, and thank you for taking the time to respond! I don't expect you to do so with each comment I make, but I'll appreciate when you do. You had said previously that you played through Odyssey 3 times and experimented with the stealth mechanics differently each time. I was amazed because while I loved that game, it took me around 120 hours to do everything in it, but knowing now that it got you through the pandemic, I finally see how that was possible. No rush at all, I'm relieved to hear that you have a list of videos you want to make because that means I get to learn and digest more from you so that's an absolute win. But should you get to that one eventually, I intend to be right there to thank you again. I hope all goes well and you continue to enjoy making these great videos, as well as the fruits of your labor

[@daninogil]

And..... I was right nice to know you remembered my comment from months ago

[@colinernest3925]

i've been playing this game a lot again recently, MGS5 is my favorite stealth game but I think this game fulfills a very different kind of stealth game play more focused on hand to hand combat and close up intensity. A lot of the combat encounters do have some issues where I think It's easy to reveal the games scripting once you've gotten really good at the game, but the encounters are still incredible and unlike any other game. BTW I played this game on survivor when it came out because grounded wasn't available yet, but definitely play this game on it's hardest difficulty except for maybe with resources. A lot of times playing this I can't help but react to getting hit because of how tense it feels. Also loved the more open ended encounters, I heard about how they originally wanted the game to be less linear and more about exploring Seattle. I almost wish we could've gotten that game because it sounds so fun.

[@furjaden8553]

Where it's no where near as difficult, the Deus Ex games are quite strong in their stealth aspects. I'd be interested to hear your opinion on them

[@sosaysjay]

I have unfortunately not played much of them, but they have been on my list

[@furjaden8553]

@@sosaysjay I'd highly recommend Human Revolution before any of the others, but Mankind Divided by far has the most open, vertical & expansive paths. One could get lost in it's maps despite being so compact.

[@sosaysjay]

@@furjaden8553 I've heard great things about the world design of Mankind Divided but yeah, I do prefer to play things in release order

[@sygyzy0933]

What recent stealth games are you comparing it to? We haven't gotten any since like dishonored 2. Stealth in other games like ghost and whatnot to me isn't too comparable because that game is open world and story driven and isn't solely focused on the same game play loop as tlou2. It's kind of in a league of its own with the first game since they're both linear story driven survival stealth games. Maybe you could say it competes with something like splinter cell blacklist which is super old. I guess we just need more new stealth games really, it's a drought out here for us stealth fans, we've been playing the same games over and over again lmao

[@renaigh]

when Ellie reaches the Stalker building in her Day 2, it felt like she met a combatant of equal capabilities.

[@TheRealScurred]

great work jay

[@mashymyre]

It's really not a conventional stealth game. Maybe more like a game of cat and mouse where the roles can change multiple times an encounter

[@echo12345ish]

A TLoU 2 discussion not about the gameplay? Fuck yes, one of the most underrated gameplay systems of the past 5 years

[@usmanzubair742]

The most underrated aspect of this game was the gameplay afterall. People got frantic with the story ignoring the revolutionary gameplay in the process

[@dippers3399]

TLOU 2 is the lovechild of MGS3 and RE4. Two of the greatest games ever made. It is the perfect blend of the two genres put together. While pure stealth games make you reload or restart from checkpoint after you get caught, in TLOU 2 it is simply a new phase where it becomes an action game unless you want it to become a cat and mouse game and move back to stealth. But it is encourages player to experiment and adapt even if your initial stealth approach doesn’t play out perfectly. I wish uncharted games also had the same philosophy and it’s definitely a huge missed opportunity on Naughty Dog’s part to not integrate TLOU 2 mechanics for Part 1 remake.

[@SaberRexZealot]

I think the first game was also a really cool anomaly when it came to stealth guerrilla gameplay as well - when played on Grounded it’s a really fun challenge. Part 2 is even more refined in its systems. Both of these games never got the appreciation they deserved for the gameplay alone.

[@n8dawg85]

The game truly is legit a stealth masterpiece. It's underrated in this way and isn't bloated with mechanics like all the 'best' stealth games. Not to mention any in particular 😂

[@Met182]

The gameplay is awesome, I regularly play No Return and the violence and situations you get into often blow me away.

[@burrito4]

I don't understand why people act like the gameplay is bad so thank you for this video

[@Indigo_1001]

Cause they didn’t play it and have to hate on the game with the buffed lady

[@ghostwhencodghosts9114]

Because the gameplay is exactly the same as tlou1 but now you can go prone and dodge and there isn’t even multiplayer in tlou2 and tlou1 ps5 stop dick riding

[@pkslush]

the worst thing about the first game's remake was the fact that they didn't rework the levels to work with crawling and didn't even allow joel to dodge either. would've improved that game by so much, it's unbelievable.

[@sosaysjay]

I cut a section in this video about that for time, but I agree. Despite legitimate changes to the enemy AI and the graphical rework, the game feels entirely the same and wasn’t worth full price. Adding the dodge, prone, and jumping still wouldn’t have made it worth full price, but it would have required structural changes to the level design like you said. That would have been way more work than they seemed interested than doing, but it could have gone a long way toward making the game feel like a remake as opposed to barely more than a remaster.

[@Indigo_1001]

I hate that the game was sold at full price, but other then that I liked that they retained the core gameplay the same while incorporating the smoothness and responsiveness of TLoU2

[@Mattened]

@@Indigo_1001 I agree. The spaces you fight in, and amount of enemies doesn't really justify them adding dodge. It would make the game a bit too easy. They said they tested it w/ dodge and it just didn't work well. I trust that decision.

[@pkslush]

​@@Mattened idk i feel any game with melee combat that has no reliable way to avoid damage, be it a block, dodge, parry whatever, can rot in hell 😅

[@sosaysjay]

I think my feeling on that is that since the game was remade from the ground up and not just a remaster I would have preferred the spaces and enemy density be brought up to modern standard instead of the gameplay being left the same. Still, I 100%ed the remake within a couple days, was more than happy to go back to it, just felt like a missed opportunity and a product I could only recommend at full price to hardcore fans like myself. Otherwise the old remaster is honestly still really strong.

[@KOOPA-lucid]

It has really good stealth system and very good AI but i will always prefer splinter cell: chaos theory in term of stealth game

[@G7ue]

While I am all for shitting on Part 2's horrendous writing, pretty much every other aspect of the game is absolutely outstanding. The gameplay mechanics, visuals, level and audio design, AI, everything is just so unbelievably impressive, its genuinely crazy how good it is. For that reason alone, I am 100% buying it again when it comes to PC. Its definitely one of the best stealth games of all time. I could have honestly considered it to be THE best game of all time, if the story had just been on par with the first game.

[@StealthBlessings]

i agree

[@DanFarrell98]

Especially on Grounded the stealth mechanics are so fun and the overall gameplay is incredible

[@henrihai1940]

I absolutely love part 2s story but the stellar gameplay is what made me put 600 hours in it

[@omelfilip]

Gonna have to insert an opinion, Horizon, at least the sequel Forbidden West, has greatly expanded stealth gameplay and the human AI are also incredibly smart and aware of their circumstances. I would encourage you to explore more of Horizon's stealth gameplay because there's truly so much depth to it.

[@Indigo_1001]

I would encourage for you to play TLoU2 on grounded to see some real good enemy AI

[@julyly1407]

The first time i played, this game had me stressing. So many options to how to encounter every situation. It really made me feel as if I was really there. Stealth is my favorite. I think it should be an option in many games nowadays. Not a fan of playing aggresive lol

[@Para-null]

Solid gameplay loop but I’d still put something Intravenous over this game if we’re talking purely about stealth. It’s the closest we’ve got to the a top-down, 2D Splinter Cell game and it’s glorious.

[@sosaysjay]

I’ve had that on my list for a while but I haven’t played it yet

[@HeismanJax]

I’m hopeful that AC Shadows will push the stealth genre forward a bit like TLOU 2 has. I haven’t finished an AC game since Unity and that’s bc they’ve let stealth take a back seat. It looks like the shinobi protagonist in the new game will have some innovative stealth mechanics.

[@K4sut0]

I really like how you put into words what I always thought, mechanically I really liked the game the other is a discussion the Internet had ad nauseam

[@MINTY_FN]

Given the discourse around the game I avoided it when it came out (it was just tiring) but I picked it up earlier this year and it was a treat. The animations are brutal and satisfying, the guns feel powerful, the sound design is fantastic, and the need to balance stealth and aggressive play to get thorugh situations while managing resources feels rewarding and hectic. I have some issues with how it handles resource gathering on higher difficulties (picking up a gun with one bullet in it after like 20 minutes of looting gets old fast) but damn is the combat/stealth satisfying. You mention at the start the confusion with the genre on wikipedia and the like and that's totally true. Action Adventure doesn't quite fit but I wouldn't call it a survival horror game either. It almost feels like a Metal Gear game wearing the skin of a survival horror game at times.

[@mukmuk723]

In my opinion, I wouldn't even call TLOU2 a "stealth" game. To me, it encapsulates true guerrilla warfare. Pick people off, loudly ambush enemies when they bunch up, break contact and conceal yourself again. It's downright mandatory to run and re-enter stealth in higher difficulties. Not to mention that you really do have to use everything at your disposal to survive encounters. On lower levels, you can get by with less use of throwables, but they're a must on the harder ones. My big complaint is honestly just the minuscule amount of reserve ammo you can carry, and how nerfed bricks and bottles are. I understand that the idea of resource scarcity is there, but the game definitely *does* have an algorithm deciding how many bullets you can loot off enemies and the environment that gets more stingy the more bullets you already have. So I don't see why if I can manage to save my bullets in one encounter, I have to be forced to leave the leftovers behind instead of bringing them to the next. As for bricks and bottles, it's a bit ridiculous that on higher difficulties some areas only have one or two laying around, when they're basically the only way to distract or draw out enemies. They couldn't have even just included rocks as another throwable in a city that's turning into rubble?

[@Ic3h0rnEt14]

The gameplay is quite good. Would have made an excellent multiplayer game I bet…

[@Mattened]

Still gutted about the multiplayer. If they'd fix the egregious exploits and bugs in the first game's MP, I'd go back to it.

[@booker229]

thanks for saying everything I've thought about this for years

[@cameron2345]

As usual, incredible job Jay. I always love your videos. I wanted to ask you what your thoughts are for assassins creed shadows? I’m cautiously excited, but I want to see gameplay first

[@sosaysjay]

I appreciate that, thank you. As of now I am also waiting to see gameplay, as a CG trailer and basic info is really nothing to go on. I look forward to stealth improvements, but I have my doubts that parkour and urban environments will be up to par. I hope to see those showcased

[@Rockport1911]

Well its not MGSV but certainly a good game with great gameplay. However I still respect anyone who says that they dont like its story and only play Ellies parts over and over, its just like that. I kinda wanted to have more of Part2´s elements in the Part1 Remake but ND played it very safe here and changed nothing about mechanics or level design. AI is pretty good in both titles and can suprise more than a few times, sometimes throuch spawn trickery sometimes with genuine searching and finding you.

[@AndersHass]

Now I am curious to try it out just for the stealth

[@ghostwhencodghosts9114]

The game is garbage dont play it

[@skyrimassassin5626]

I actually always think of both the last of us games with stealth in mind and while there is one very specific section of the story I don't like I am a fan of most of it.

[@Pedro-xz6wt]

on grounded permadeath, this isn't a game, it's a test of your wit and soul.

[@goodhoonter9882]

Id love if naughty dog made legitimately great walking dead game or two its right up their alley with how last of us appearently plsys like

[@Indigo_1001]

My make a Walkign Dead game when they just created their own more unique zombie franchise

[@GPlaysCustodio]

The Gameplay of this game is one of my favorites

[@Tomatobasil-v9y]

I love this game but I don't know if I'll ever finish this game it's just so fucking exhausting to play as a certain person

[@braxtonbryant9105]

Just got the physical edition thanks to this video let’s hope this guy is right.

[@jierdareisa4313]

I love ALL So Says Jay videos!!!! ❤

[@grannyperson]

personally, i think tlou2s story is an absolute masterpiece. but even if the story was bad, i think the gameplay completely makes up for it, and its still at LEAST an 8/10 game for the gameplay alone. its why ive stopped listening to the haters on this game, because when i hear them say stuff like "its the worst AAA game ive ever played" simply because they didnt like the story choices, it just shows they are ignorant and dont understand what theyre talking about. this games mechanics, level design, enemy ai, atmosphere, graphics, voice acting, and more are literally all 10/10, and that isnt an exaggeration. so it just baffles me when people say this game is a 3/10 just because they think the story is bad. honestly, if im being totally honest, i totally believe this is the best game ever made. if i was asked what i think the objective #1 game of all time is, its this. one of the most complex games story-wise, and gameplay-wise. absolute masterpiece, and its so unfortunate how much hate it got, naughty dog genuinely outdid themselves with this game, and i think thats a correct statement whether or not the story is good.

[@StealthBlessings]

i just got one question, how the hell do you think tlou2s story is a masterpiece?

[@adonisvillain]

9:50 yeah. I'm so exited about prone movement in Assassin's creed Shadows. With new animations tech and dynamic openworld or may become best stealth ever. 💪💪😎 ROCK ubisoft ROCK And it's from legendary Chaos Theory developer. And even non lethal takedowns in AC, that's something i missed. Hype is real

[@sosaysjay]

I don’t know if they’ll stick the landing, but prone and non-lethal are great things to add

[@kittylemeu1373]

It should be noted that Naughty Dog is now working towards zero crunch! The remaster and remake were both made without it

[@335449286]

Such a shame about the story because they really did hit it out of the park with gameplay, presentation, music and facial expressions and acting

[@sithvaultboy]

The game meachanics were so fun and good. However, the story was so brutal and draining that everytime I feel I want to go back and play it for fun, I remember what the story was, and think " no way, I dont want to be depressed today".

[@Indigo_1001]

Why no try the Encounters menu of the game, where you can replay all enemy encounters from a menu. You can even have it set where after completing one you are automatically placed in the next encounter of the game. You can essentially replay the whole home like this

[@sithvaultboy]

@@Indigo_1001 woah, is that new? I only played it at launch and don't remember that. I would try that.

[@ghostwhencodghosts9114]

The story was shit

[@joestack1921]

You seem like you’re a kind person 👍

[@Arvy1987]

Gameplay is king

[@ronthorn3]

TLOU2 as a complete package…is pure perfection.

[@joseortizreflects]

The Last of Us is a clear example of how a plot mistep can tarnish what otherwise is one of the best game franchises mechanically speaking. You don’t get games like this every day.