Columbine Shooter's Mother Draws Criticism for Book and TED Talk | Sue Klebold Case Analysis

[@DottieMinerva]

I hate the misconception that they targeted their bullies. For starters both of them had been bullies themselves and many of their victims hadn’t done a thing to them. One student had a physical deformity that made him a target of bullies. He said Dylan made fun of him, and one of the victims, Rachel Scott, always went out of her way to be kind to him. While Columbine High School did have a bullying problem, Dylan and Eric are not anti-heroes. They’re self absorbed murderers.

[@MichaelLovely-mr6oh]

This! One of the initial claims was that Eric and Dylan were targeting certain, specific students; but in reality, anyone and everyone at the school was a target.

[@niaselah3348]

I watched a movie about Rachel not knowing who she was. The scene when my brain catched up to what was about to happen to her was devastating

[@nonyobisniss7928]

@@MichaelLovely-mr6oh They may or may not have intended to target specific individuals, but obviously that's easier said than done, and just because they expressed their rage against the school as a whole doesn't mean they weren't responding to the bullying they had suffered there. Equally if they did bully that doesn't absolve those who bullied them of culpability in the mental deterioration of these boys who became killers. A sick society creates sick children and sick adults.

[@suestephan3255]

They did not fit in and before they came at people they were shunned. Rachel Scott saw this and wanted to be different. They were misfits but it escalated to resentment & a danger point. It is most times hard to understand mental health & how to deal with it.

[@thekillers1stfan]

They're also just straight criminals who broke into a bunch of cars and got caught. Sue helped them get away with it...

[@theabby_g]

It’s such an interesting thing to study. Your child committed a horrific act, however he is still your child. It’s such a grey area and touchy subject

[@toomanymarys7355]

Only if you're the kind of parent who causes horrible children.

[@H8BOT666]

If she cared so much. She should have raised him. Paid attention to him.

[@BriEMcN]

It's such a heartbreaking thing, I can't even imagine. No parent is perfect but no one would expect their kid to do something like this. I always feel so bad for the parents of shooters that weren't abusive/neglectful and had genuinely tried to be a good parent. On top of the heartbreak and guilt for their own child's actions, they also usually lose their child which is a parents worst nightmare. Regardless of what the kid did, they're still a parent that loves and lost their child. But they can't even grieve the loss of their child openly bc the entire world (deservedly so) hates the child for what they did. But the parents of a shooter lost their child in 2 ways- 1. their kid lost their life and, 2.the parents image of their kid being their innocent, sweet, loving child that they raised and loved as much as any parent loves their child, is dead. And I can't even imagine how conflicted a parent in this situation would feel between hating their kid for what they did and loving the kid that they raised. And then on top of all of this, the rest of the world is looking towards the parents and finding all the reasons they can find for why it's the parents fault for raising their kid properly. Being the parent of a shooter is a hell I wouldn't wish on anyone

[@fatmike01]

@@H8BOT666I don’t think that’s necessarily fair. I think it’s easy to sit there and pass judgement all these years later looking back. It’s easy to see now in retrospect, but you’ve got to remember people can be very deceptive and good at putting up a different perception. Dylan was obviously struggling a lot with his feelings and depression, but he may of not shown any glaring symptoms outwardly to his family. I think parents tend to give their teenagers a fair amount of privacy so it’s easy to see how things got missed. Eric’s parents on the other hand are a different story.

[@DannyBoy777777]

@theabby_g 'Act'? Singular? 13 dead and 25+ attempted murders? Which 'act' are you referring to?

[@oceanstaiga5928]

Once again, I DEEPLY recommend “how to stop a school shooting” here on KZbin by Randy Brown. He’s the father of Brooks Brown, who was friends with Dylan and therefore Randy saw him grew up and also how Sue parented. Interesting insight on Dylan’s downfall into violence and how the two got there.

[@grioulaloula8594]

Thanks!

[@corning1]

Trash. Oh I’m sure he knows it all. Selling a damn book is all.

[@prettypuff1]

Will listen thank you Im surprised that video isn’t gaining traction

[@KarisPigNose]

Thanks.

[@emilyl6746]

And Randy and Judy Brown never attributed the shooting to Sue's parenting.

[@Griffindor1955]

I think this is a very accurate and balanced take on this mother. As a mother myself, I have reflected on my own parenting and the unmet needs of my now grown children. While nothing to the extent of Columbine happened in my family, I can see in hindsight that there were things I should have noticed and actions I should have taken to help my children at different times. Much like Sue Klebold I was dealing with financial and marital issues. I thought I was a pretty hands on mom, but I now reflect on this and see I was not there for my children at times because I wanted to “hope for the best”, as I did not have the energy to put into their problems. My kids are ok, but I do think they had some pain and fallout due to my distractions and putting my head in the sand. I feel compassion for everyone in this situation, including Sue Klebold. It probably could have been me, given other circumstances.

[@zachparade2791]

One thing to remember is that although Columbine wasn’t technically the first mass school shooting it happened in a time, unlike today, where most people didn’t even consider it a possibility. Heck, I graduated high school in 1998, and most of us had guns in our cars to hunt before or after school. I think Sue’s actions today looking back seem almost willfully negligent as a parent; however, back then, it was pretty common. Lots of parents were minimally involved in their teenagers’ lives. We were the latchkey kid generation after all.

[@emilymschoener9193]

I was the first mass shooting with mass deaths. Kip Kinkle killed two people at Thurston. Columbine incident killed 15 people.

[@Jess-kn8vl]

I graduated in 1999 and I remember this so well. These boys looked like a lot of kids, it was the Manson, Metallica, Smashing Pumpkins, Alice in Chains era. I didn't understand why they were so angry and felt like they didnt fit in.

[@Trump.is.a.nazzii]

You were also the last generation to have actual family meals around the table, and not be babysat by a TV or phone screen

[@spacecatboy2962]

who the hell had time to hunt before school?

[@LLace]

That’s facts … I was a latchkey kid growing up in Germany and my parents weren’t involved in my private life AT ALL …

[@autumncortez6254]

I read the article she did in People magazine and she did blame herself in that interview. She said she gave Dylan too much “privacy” and she should have been more investigative. She encouraged all parents to not give their teenagers privacy when you know something is wrong, but instead to look in their stuff, their room, their writings, etc. But she thought Dylan was making plans for his future and that he would turn things around after high school. She spoke of how she held his face in her hands just the night before the shooting and told him she loved him. I thought it was heartbreaking.

[@corning1]

It’s normal behavior for the most part by her son. Just a very very unlucky situation for all.

[@nicoleb4077]

I read the book too. It was heartbreaking all around. ❤

[@janegardener1662]

@@corning1 Normal behaviour...except for that one tiny bit where he murdered a bunch of people eating lunch.

[@bradsanders6954]

@@corning1 What do you mean? "Normal behavior" and "unlucky situation for all" What part was normal, what part was luck?

[@corning1]

People who get bullied have bad thoughts towards others. People who get cheated on get murderous thoughts. It’s life yall. It’s not fair.

[@totallyfrozen]

I think you did a fair, balanced, and tactful analysis. The best part I’ve seen so far. Thank you. I think another thing Sue suffers now that I don’t think you mentioned is her own loss of identity. She is for the rest of her life now known as “the mother of the Columbine shooter”. That’s now her identity. That’s sad.

[@L-K-Jellyfish]

I can imagine that. At least she still has one other child who was not a criminal.

[@gmamose9152]

A very insightful comment.

[@JAH96PRO]

It wouldn't be her identity if she stayed out of the spotlight. Look at Eric's parents

[@knowthycell]

Seems like she embraces it.

[@thecuntyone]

not true the older brother was also troubled in similar ways, but he did not terrorize a school. still technically 2/2 criminal sons@@L-K-Jellyfish

[@Naveen-tx8be]

Dylan and Eric had a third friend who distanced himself from them once they started escalating in violent thoughts and started planning the b0mbings. He was Dylan’s childhood friend and their parents were close. His parents explicitly told sue that eric was dangerous and had threatened to kill their son (friend 3). Eric even had a website where he talked in detail about making b0mbs and his plan to annihilate everyone in the state, starting with people closest to him. He even had a hit list of people at school! Sue dismissed friend 3’s parents and didn’t want to hear about it. These parents were so worried, they even went to the police with printouts, but the cops turned them away because TECHNICALLY no crime had been committed thus far. Sue was made aware well in advance, and she chose to not see it.

[@kryztyn127]

I think that was Brooks Brown. He also wrote a book regarding his experience in Columbine. It's a gut-wrenching read, especially on the part where he described Rachel's funeral.

[@windsofmarchjourneyperrytr2823]

Would you?

[@dotsyjmaher]

Ugh

[@elaineekberg113]

It came out that these boys were both on psychotropic drugs for anti depression, and probably othe drugs. The Bible refers to pharmaceuticals as sorcery. This woman has more than likely been a victim of the pharmaceutical industry. Think about it...the way to make big bucks is to make sure there are tons of side affects to have returning customers. Witchcraft!

[@freudianslippers6567]

@@windsofmarchjourneyperrytr2823 Wouldn't you rather prevent this outcome, even if it means getting help for your child in an institution rather than have them murder innocent people and then kill themselves?

[@cocopersiflage4705]

I really like this analysis. Humans are so complex. One could argue that holding and honoring multiple feelings about a topic is a sign of emotional maturity.

[@lambchop412]

I think Dr.Grande hit the nail on the head, I'm a parent of four young boys and I feel like I've failed them, and they didn't even commit anything close to what happened. It's very hard being a parent at times.

[@pollypockets508]

(HUG)

[@mntlhlthaddtnstilltrying]

I am the mother of a teenager who took their own life , I know I failed and Still haven't been able to understand what went wrong I have 3 other kids and it's so hard to remain uncool and stay strict as the teenage " I hate you" regularly screamed now causes me to imagine the worst case scenario every time

[@ErnestPiffel]

I raised my 4 sons alone after their dad died. I was a crap mother, hopeless at discipline, untidy, overly emotional. But apparently (according to my grown sons) I did 2 things right. They knew they were loved and I allowed no man to move in and play ‘dad’.

[@joedennehy386]

​@@mntlhlthaddtnstilltrying I feel for you, such a terrible tragedy, I don't think you failed that child, as evidenced by the other 3

[@pollypockets508]

@@ErnestPiffel You sound like my mom. But I thought she was an awesome mother.

[@thedarknessunderneathpodca6366]

I read Sue's book and listened to her interview. She seems like a decent person. Tom Mauser, who actually lost a kid at Columbine, in his excellent book Walking in Daniel's Shoes, agreed she seemed like a decent person who tried to raise a good kid. Mauser is on my friends list. I talked to Tom, defended him against Columbine cultists on his channel, and I admire him a lot. Tom had a lower opinion of the Harris' parents. Unfortunately, no matter what Sue says or does, she is going to be interpreted in the least charitable manner, as commentators below are doing. Meanwhile most people aren't any better as parents and are probably even worse at parenting. They just aren't as unlucky, and the net provides them with a forum to throw stones.

[@youtubeuser206]

thats the thing though, she was warned harris was dangerous and the two had gotten in trouble together numerous times, the argument is she should have prevented them from hanging out

[@wormwoodcocktail]

10/10 comment

[@wormwoodcocktail]

Was Mauser’s opinion affected by the Harrises’s and Klebolds’s opinions on firearms? I got the vibe that the Harrises were a military family where goofing around with fireworks was normal. The Klebolds were more Colorado-type hippies who were opposed to that kind of thing. Maybe Mauser felt that the Harrises had facilitated Eric’s worst tendencies whereas the Klebolds tried to rein their boys in? Pure speculation on my part.

[@jenniferleedy6024]

I really appreciated your comment probably the most fair and balanced thing I've read in a really long time

[@gyver8448]

@@youtubeuser206 Yeah. They got into shit with the police for talking about how they wanted to murder their classmate and wrote papers about how their ultimate dream was to shoot up the school. It probably would've been the smart thing to separate the two, since they were obviously not a good influence on one another. Harris more than anything.

[@nighthealerrn1695]

I think as a parent, she is grieving too. It has to be your worst nightmare. Not only did other parents lose their children but her son was responsible. I have 2 sons. I was accused of being a strict mom. My kids had a curfew. They had consequences, good and bad. Regardless, you can’t know what your kids are doing 24/7. If they are staying the night with a friend, you hope they are behaving themselves. You don’t know though, do you? Lots of teens struggle with depression and self image issues. Teens don’t let parents into their world. They’ll talk to friends. They’ll tell you they are fine when they are not. I can’t imagine what she went through getting that message that her son killed several people, the hate and guilt she endured. I do feel bad for her and the families that lost children. Everyone can point fingers and blame. What if it were your kid? Would you know?

[@Ninnjette-]

Best comment, I've seen. Excatly what you said, imagine losing your child but then finding out your child was responsible for a mass "you know what". It's like people just forget, he was raised by someone, he was someone's child. This is such a tough situation, she has a right to speak her thoughts. How can she personally make up for what her son did, she can't. So she's condemned forever? I don't know your comment said it all, It was the best.

[@Mike7mcdonald]

Why did she write a controversial book and give controversial Ted Talks? How does that help victim’s families? Shouldn’t that be her main concern?

[@Ninnjette-]

@Mike7mcdonald What did you find, so controversial about it? She didn't do it, her son did. Her son was an adult at the time, well 17 getting ready to turn 18. So for the rest of her life, 20 something years after her existence is to try to make up for what her adult son did? She can't. I was 15 when this happened, maybe 16 I am now 40 how many more decades does she need to make up for something she can't?

[@gmamose9152]

I thought her main point with the TED talk was with the issue of mental illness, but I got confused. Her heartfelt concern was admirable and she seemed to search for answers, and yet ppl felt she was off and could've shown some real concern.

[@sandrab2589]

@@Mike7mcdonald She is trying to save her family's reputation rather than taking blame for her part in creating a monster and the ensuing tragedy.

[@kate_is_great]

Dr. Grande, I really appreciate your intelligent, honest opinions on difficult subjects. But more than that I appreciate your empathy for the human condition. ❤

[@bettyhappschatt3467]

I hope Sue sees this video. The comments also express compassion and respect to Sue,

[@madmaddie4956]

I have to say, this was an exceptional analysis. Parenting is the most difficult job in the world. A job where the conditions change every moment, things you have no control over, and you just have to hit the balls as they come flying to you. And you pray each day that you have given enough, but not too much; that you have been there enough, but not too much. And I agree with you, her son probably did kill her [Sue Klebold].

[@dn8015]

This is the best video in the entire series. Unbelievably painful for a parent to front up like she did. I feel immensely sorry for everyone connected to this crime and the city it happened in, the victims, the killers and all. Unfortunately, literally noone has done anything about the issue in the US.

[@lindsayb7811]

I was in high school when this happened. Rooms were locked down across the country and kids afraid to go to classes. Events that defined an entire generation. We didn’t know school shootings would only get…worse.

[@cynthiabeverforden5257]

Quite honestly as a high school teacher I think there are a lot of administrators that choose to look the other way about bullying. Personal experience as a teacher.

[@edvh88]

Yes, from what I’ve seen and heard, there is not enough leadership about shutting down bullying and fostering an environment of safety.

[@PaisleyMarie80]

Yes, that has been my experience as the student.

[@H_H_____]

12 years of school. I witnessed 1st grade teachers handing over 5 year old classmates to the male janitor and returning the little girls to the room crying and curled up in the fetal position under their desk. I was 5. I experienced teachers handing me over to strangers in the middle of the day and they would leave school with me trapped in their vehicle. I was 9. I witnessed students beating up other students in religion class and the teacher was watching and ok with it. I was 15. I experienced a student molesting me and the teacher watched and so did the entire classroom. I was 15. Teachers and school administrators don't look the other way. They watch and get their jollies off on the abuse and then they pretend nothing ever happened.

[@moomama217]

These boys were the bullies.

[@katiesioux7757]

Columbine also said they didn't need metal detectors because they weren't an inner city school 🙄 Arrogant, wealthy families I lived in that area but shared a condo so I was beneath them, the area was so gross and full of rude, wealthy people

[@kierstenszo125]

Thank you, as someone studying psychology and as someone who suffered a complicated traumatic loss within my immediate family, you represent a compassionate view regarding the topic unlike others who feel they have the right to tell others how to deal with their grief that they will fortunately never have to understand. After I suffered from my loss I watched her TedTalk and it helped me immensely so for people who are saying she doesn’t have a right to talk about her experience, it’s completely dismissing the traumatic grief one experiences, and her tedtalk can help people deal with their losses. I appreciate your psychological knowledge and compassion, others who are discussing this issue clearly lack it.

[@shethingsd]

Thank you for addressing the fact that everyone has narcissist characteristics in some sense and that doesn't equal narcissistic personality disorder. I'm sick of hearing people with no mental health training internet diagnosing everyone that they don't like as a narcissist or sociopath. There are criteria for this. People can still just be self absorbed or a jackass without having a mental health diagnosis. This isn't to negate that more attention to her son's negative behaviors wasn't needed. Many people minimize their children's problematic behaviors. Ask anyone in education.

[@kellydalstok8900]

The male brain, especially the frontal lobe where impuls control is seated, isn’t fully formed until they’re around 25 years old.

[@kmonti1]

Thank you. "Narcissist" has been the popular buzzword in self-righteous internet circles for a couple of years now. It's losing its true meaning much like "toxic."

[@kw9859]

​@@kellydalstok8900that's not specific to any gender... Age 25 is when the brain is fully developed and technically when adolescence ends.

[@Gigi-fp8pd]

So having your son's Highschool yearbook picture redone after the massacre bc it was 'an unflatering picture' doesn't scream narcissism?

[@shethingsd]

@@Gigi-fp8pd clinically, no. Not every strange behavior is a mental illness.

[@dr.patrickkingsboroughmart8050]

Thank you Dr. Grande for this powerfully nuanced and compassionate analysis of this mother's unimaginable dilemmas.

[@MEL2theJ]

Great comment 💎

[@laurenamy1202]

Agreed. It would have been very easy to jump on the bandwagon and criticise Sue, but that isn't Dr Grande's MO. Careful analysis reveals a situation which is actually beyond the average person's comprehension. There have certainly been worse mothers in history whose children have not acted on their emotions in the way that Eric and Dillon did. Although it was an adolescent choice, it was their choice.

[@laurenamy1202]

Agreed. It would have been very easy to jump on the bandwagon and criticise Sue, but that isn't Dr Grande's MO. Careful analysis reveals a situation which is actually beyond the average person's comprehension. There have certainly been worse mothers in history whose children have not acted on their emotions in the way that Eric and Dillon did. Although it was an adolescent choice, it was their choice.

[@loiskondo8349]

Sue had a lot to deal with. I can’t imagine how she felt. Going public puts her out there for scrutiny. I would not have the strength for that. Thank you Dr. Grande for your look into this.

[@caramcculley4640]

As a teacher, it seems to me that about 50% of the kids are depressed, alienated, focused on grim imagery and entertainment, etc. You look at what they're drawing and it's a bloody weapon. So so many of them are like that. Good mothers can have bad children, and terrible mothers can have great children. Surely everyone knows this.

[@warpedwhimsical]

Everyone knows that but it’s also understood that bad mothers raise troubled children more often than good mothers, and good mothers raise well-adjusted children more often than bad mothers. No one is suggesting that these things are ultimate truths that always occur

[@virginiasenophdrn5921]

Important to remember. And what mother is good and not also bad or bad without also being good?

[@jonesmorales-tu6kq]

There is a war on boys

[@froogality]

The way you phrased that makes it seem like parents have no affect on their child. Surely you know that's a brash over exaggeration. Maybe she didn't make him commit those acts but I know if he had my mom as a mother he wouldn't be committing those acts

[@caramcculley4640]

@@warpedwhimsical I'm not sure everyone knows that at all. The question of nature versus nurture is bigger than all of us, and there is no ultimate truth.

[@Christian-nl7cm]

i survived a school shooting, was there when it all happened and almost got shot, i can say for me i admire her ability to talk about this as it isn’t easy and it’s the closest thing i have to family speaking out about the incident at my school

[@jennj9026]

I'm so sorry that happened to you. As a teacher I have to think about this every time we do a drill. I'm glad you can find some relief or therapeutic value in Sue's story. All the best to you.

[@y_knot_tri]

So, basically, you either abused some kid to the point they were willing to die to ensure you that you wouldn't be bullying people any longer or you knew about it and did nothing. I hope you decide not to be such a miserable piece of shit anymore.

[@alisonwilson9749]

@@jennj9026 It's hard for us in the UK to even imagine having to do a drill like that. We just don't have to. I wish you didn't have to either.

[@yudithdm9302]

I’m so glad you survived and I’m so sorry for the victims and everyone involved

[@jennj9026]

Thanks...yeah it's awful. I remember when they first started it my daughter was little and she came home from school and tried to explain to me what happened...the school didn't even notify the parents. I was so pissed...I'm a teacher and one who speaks up so I had no problem saying something...of course, that didn't change a thing. The active shooter drills are called "lockdown drills"....we do two of those a year as well as two fire drills and two earthquake drills....this is California. So that's 6 drills a year! Just this year they changed the procedure for the lockdown drills....for years all the kids had to go hunker down under a part of the classroom that had a red dot on the ceiling above it and stay quiet for 10 mins...let me tell you how hard this is to do with second graders (7 year olds). Now they are teaching the kids about 4 different scenarios they need to choose from in terms of how to get safety based on where they think the shooter might be or where they her shooting sounds coming from. It's disgusting. Kids shouldn't have to visualize these kinds of scenarios and live with that kind of fear...and have it shoved in their faces like that. The chances of having an active shooter are slim to none ....there are thousands of schools in this country and maybe 20-25...if that...school shootings since the late 90's w/ Columbine....it's hardly worth scaring all these kids for. The government likes to keep us all I'm a state of fear...it's by design...we are easier to control that way with their fear porn...it's bad here but all these globalist leaders do this. The state of the US has nothing to do with what this country is supposed to represent. It sickens and saddens me. A lot going on in the UK as well that is not good either. My mother was half British and I was close with my British grandmother...so I like to keep track of what's going on over there...across the pond as they say! Well take care and I would say Happy Thanksgiving except that you all don't celebrate it! LOL! @@alisonwilson9749

[@GprRjo]

I survived murder-suicide attempts by my caregiver when I was a child--- Sue's TED Talk was one of the pieces that allowed me to not only understand what happened to me, but also forgive the unforgivable to be able to let it go and heal. There's a lot of value in her words and feelings, and I'm thankful she stepped up and spoke her reality.

[@katspray]

Every parents worse nightmare. That you don’t know your own child well enough and stop him doing something unimaginably awful. Sad.

[@misstinahamilton5714]

I agree - I couldn't imagine . I'd literally go into seclusion for the rest of my life .

[@caseybrown4360]

Unfortunately, even though she admitted to wishing she had not let him be reclusive, but more times than not, a parent can be the best parent in the world and still have a child flip shit. This is a parent’s nightmare whether they were completely involved in the child’s life or if they didn’t take the time to helicopter parent.

[@girlwhomustnotbenamed4139]

​@@caseybrown4360"A parent can be the best parent in the world and still have a child flip shit" - I'm sure it's a great theoretical exercise to muse over except it rarely ever happens that way. Kids that have the best parents do not become mass murderers.

[@caseybrown4360]

@@girlwhomustnotbenamed4139 would you care to cite your empirical evidence on your claim?

[@zulemazahir666]

​@caseybrown4360 I second that. I've known or met a multitude of both terrible enabling parents as well as loving parents who do their best, who have had their children do awful things to themselves or others.

[@ruthhase-gutierrez9830]

This is the best of the videos of yours that I have watched so far. It's completely unbiased, which i appreciate. The fact that people were angry at her for focusing on his mental health instead of what she did wrong says a lot. They weren't focusing on the problem, just who to blame (her). The focus should be on the problem and what we can do about it, and his mental health not being addressed WAS a big part of the problem. What is the underlying cause of so many mental health problems in our country, and what can we be doing to address that? That should have been the focus, not what kind of a parent she was. It needs to be a much broader focus so that ALL parents can get the tools they need to better support their kids. As much as mental health has become a buzz word, I'm still not seeing a broad-range education on the causes, as well as actionable tools and supports on a large scale.

[@lindavirgilio4225]

Mrs Klebold’s attempt to explain/understand her son’s actions and motivations in view of the public was uncharted territory. I cannot recall the parent of any murders trying to so publicly explain their situation. That her attempt was misunderstood is not surprising. I wish her family healing.

[@yorkierussell9255]

I can definitely empathize with her. It’s really easy for most people to paint someone in her position through a very black-and-white lens, but the reality is *very* gray - that’s harder to conceptualize for most people, but what’s easy isn’t always reality. I think it’s admirable of her to be telling her story and to talk about the “why” and the “how can this be prevented”?

[@cantafforddiamonds5026]

I thoughit was pretty common. Jeffery Dahmers Dad wrote a book about being the parent of a serial k1ller and does public speaking tours. The Mom of the Watts family murder will talk about her son being a killer and how much pain she's in, to anyone who will listen, but she is pushing to get him set free. Then theres another parent of a school sh00ter that does public speaking tour's, I can't remember which one because there are quite a few. If you do a Google search of parents of serial k1lers and books, it should pull up more parent's talking about their k1ller children and what it's like being a parent of one.

[@Celisar1]

I think it is the most normal thing in the world trying to understand the unfathomable And writing about it is both cathartic and healing, Who wouldn’t understand that?

[@xc5103]

@@yorkierussell9255 You can empathize with a mother of a mass shooter who spanned plenty of copycats and led to the terrorization of American schools and who has taken zero accountability? Are you serious?

[@xc5103]

@@Celisar1 You're missing the point. There's a class of books profitting off of their own murder spree or their children's murder spree. The courts have banned such publications and profiting. Look up Kouri Richins and her book “Are You With Me?" after she murdered her husband and tried to play it off. She's literally the mother of a mass shooter that has spanned further copycats of mas shooters that terrorize American schools to this day.

[@wilhelmhagberg4897]

Good and nuanced summary of this sad story. I think Sue is brave to go out and address the situation. It’s not uncommon for teenagers to have problems and get themselves into trouble. However it’s incredibly rare that they go from offenses like minor theft to mass murder. If the boys were indeed psychopaths, the parents didn’t have much of a chance to correct them.

[@PriorityPeace77]

This will never leave my mind. We lived a mile from the school, my children were 6 and 9. It changed us all. I cannot blame Sue. Everyone wants to have someone to blame when horrific things happen. I think it’s better to take care of our own mental health and try to live as best we can. I pray everyday for those innocent children who lost their lives and their families.

[@m.f.richardson1602]

My sister in laws was a first responder

[@KarisPigNose]

❤️❤️❤️

[@KarisPigNose]

Crying. 😭 Yes. Thank you for saying this.

[@Flamsterette]

*EVERY DAY

[@sleepygirl3022]

I’m in the UK and was only 20 at the time of Columbine and while I remember it being on the news here it was thousands of miles away so paid only a little attention to it. However, over the years I became more and more interested in the full story so have watched countless documentaries,footage and interviews etc and I also read Sue Klebolds book which absolutely broke my heart. As the Mother of 2 sons I couldn’t help but feel utter sorrow for this grieving Mother who wasn’t allowed to grieve because her child was responsible for this awful tragedy ☹️ The feelings of all the parents who lost children that day are hard to comprehend but to accept what Dylan and Eric did on top of losing them too I just can’t even begin to imagine how you recover from that. I don’t think I would. I feel admiration for Sue for having the guts to stand on a stage and try to educate other parents on the warning signs of someone like Dylan. In a country such as the US with guns so readily available surely sharing her experience can only be a good thing to try to avoid it happening again. That takes real courage in my opinion.

[@lclnbm]

It's not the guns! They are inanimate objects! Fun fact, all the guns were bought illegally!

[@BoBlankets]

The parents that say they know exactly what their teenagers are up to 24/7 are being untruthful or naive! She lost her life as she knew it as well, tragic all around

[@davesworld7688]

Well said. Everyone is super self righteous to point the finger until their own kids do something horrible.

[@vampiresquid]

@@davesworld7688 Except that most of them don't, jackass.

[@frankpaya690]

​@@davesworld7688Most kids grow up and go through their entire lifetimes and at no point in childhood or as adults are they ever responsible for anybody else's loss of life- either justified or unjustified. I never knew that "most" "teenage males" get arrested? For whatever it's worth the bullets they found postmortem inside of klebold came from Harris's gun.

[@Lilly-hh9es]

She kinda knew. Police was involved numerous times

[@gb917]

Asian, African, Jamaican, Indian, and Middle Eastern parents definitely always know where their kids are.

[@JJ-ui4ph]

Don’t confuse having a “good family” with having a good financial support.

[@darlingdeb7010]

THIS.

[@LUM-kb2rl]

I've seen SEVERAL KZbin mini docs about teen killers and it's very consistent that the narrators will say that they come from good households and touch very briefly on all of the abuse that the kids allege to have gone through. It's a little weirder for an actual psychologist to do this, you'd think Todd would know better.

[@JJ-ui4ph]

@@LUM-kb2rl I’m not going to be to harsh on Todd because he is human but I definitely came to the same conclusions as you. I actually had to replay that part to make sure I heard him correctly.

[@candicehoneycutt4318]

@@polarbearsrus6980Given that Sue's other son had a huge substance abuse problem, there was likely something going on here that she doesn't want to acknowledge.

[@chadthechad4365]

@@candicehoneycutt4318substance abuse = problems in the family. Yeah pretty weak argument, how many substance abusers do you know?

[@RachelWrites]

I feel very bad for the parents of the killers. They lost children too, they have to live with what their children did and think about how they failed to prevent it, and they were not allowed to grieve without harsh criticism.

[@vortex_1336]

Except she never really does that. She's repeatedly claimed that there was nothing she could have done. Despite the fact that she was repeatedly warned of her son's behaviors and that the kid he hung out with the most was a known psycho.

[@michaeljordan317]

@@vortex_1336😮

[@fantasea114]

really because i feel bad for the parents of the victims. this woman ignored repeated warning signs and now she feigns ignorance, i have no respect for her or her story.

[@terintiaflavius3349]

​@@fantasea114You can feel bad for both.

[@melissalarson2569]

I think she's great & caring for stepping up to tell her story. We all can learn from the mistakes and discuss what went wrong. The other parent that hid in a box are the bad ones. Not the brave mom who came out alone to face a mean, judgemental world. Of course parents won't blame their children. They normally blame theirself and make excuses up for the kids. I'm not saying that's what we should do, it's just what most parents do.

[@kellyyork3898]

I clicked on this video to see if “the psychologist” would typically blame the mother, as Freud would. Things are always more complicated than they seem. Love Dr. Grande’s analysis.

[@Alexandra_Indina]

Actually it's ALWAYS parents to blame. Bc they ARE guilty.

[@Jazzykatt23]

@@Alexandra_Indinanot true. Sometimes nature vs nurture plays a role.

[@kristinab1078]

This was a sensitive and compassionate analysis. Through the information you related, I could sense the weight of how this tragedy impacted everyone involved. Truly heartbreaking.

[@Isabella66Gracen]

Best analysis I've heard on this topic. Very fair. I think before the days when these shootings were more common, it is fair to say that no parent would be able to realize the gravity of the warning signs. Very few troublemakers (the kids who are arrested as teens) go on to commit murder, let alone mass shootings. Now, ( partly because of Sue's conversations and writings) we actually try to recognize warning signs in our children. Red flags are more often recognized.

[@oceanstaiga5928]

She acts like anybody would have failed to recognise the warning signs when Randy Brown quite literally reported his concerns to the police just a few months before the attack

[@AcoLC15]

Exactly

[@streamlinegaming9113]

Because Randy knew of Dylans website where he talked about what he wanted to do. Another interesting fact is that he did not tell Sue and instead went to the police who didn't correctly follow up. It was only after the events that Randy's wide told Sue about the website and she realized how depressed and broken he was.

[@oceanstaiga5928]

@ that was Eric’s website with the threats against Brooks. Sure, Randy didn’t tell them directly, but Sue also did not inform herself about the specifics of the diversion Programm that Dylan and Eric were completing so it’s fair to say she didn’t do much digging or asking questions either as at that point of the van break in and diversion Programm the previous report of Randy’s had already happened within the same police department. In the end the police dropped the ball not taking up the search warrant for the Harris home at the time.

[@streamlinegaming9113]

@@oceanstaiga5928 Agreed.

[@user-fn8bq7ef7t]

I read her book a few years ago. I found it… profoundly human? It made me see her as a person rather than the mother of a monster. She talks about her struggle with recognizing Dylan as “One of the Columbine Shooters” instead of her son that she had raised for almost 2 decades. It’s a great read- I highly recommend it. I will admit that her TedTalk (I saw it before reading the book) did rub me the wrong way. I didn’t think Dylan deserved to be recognized as a sucide victim but rather as a murderer. But I think she rationalizes it that way because it’s how she’s able to come to terms with his actions. Lastly, I think people often forget, that while there were shootings before Columbine, they had never been as publicized- so infamous. The fact that we still reference this shooting from 1999 speaks for itself. The Klebold and Harris families were really in a minefield with no map. Even if I don’t agree with all Sue’s actions, I appreciate that she is opening that discussion with us. Especially now that there’s a new tragedy on the news every few weeks.

[@maxwellblackwell5045]

Do you expect a mother to remember her dead son as monster when he wasn't bad to her? I mean at least he wasn't out right abusive to her as far I know. Am I wrong?

[@mikeb6085]

Agreed. It's the same thing with every tragedy or act of violence, especially school shootings. People need to rationalize how a seemingly ordinary person could do something unimaginable, so they dehumanize an emotionally complex human by labeling them a 'monster' and explain and simplify their motives as pure 'evil'. But then they further wonder what could cause a person to be that way, and it's easiest to just entirely blame the parents. Of course, there are instances of criminal behavior that are likely the result of upbringing. A child with neglectful or abusive parents that expose them to a life of crime and poverty, and ignore red flags or encourage and bad behavior, is very likely to grow up with negative personality traits and questionable morals. But when it comes to a suburban family who is present and supportive, it's unfair and shortsighted to blame them for not recognizing what was potentially the same normal kind of angst and struggle with identity that you see in millions of teenagers who don't end up massacring students. I'm sure she thought she found the right balance between respecting his privacy and independence, while doing enough to instill rules and discipline and teach right from wrong. You can be the most clingy, invasive, helicopter parent, and kids will still find a way to sneak around and go against your will. There's far too many environmental and psychological factors to take into account, and even two cases with identical factors won't determine the same result. Humans can do things that are just completely irrational. I understand the importance of recognizing patterns of behavior and influence, it could help prevent it from happening again. But I don't believe people who leave harassing comments have the best intentions, or that it's productive. They just want someone to be the target of their initial emotional response.

[@moccalou]

I mean apparently Eric was the one that influenced Dylan in mostly hateful ways. Dylan, while eventually echoing those sentiments, was a bit of a blank slate because he was so depressed and nihilistic that he just didn't care about anything. If you don't value your own life, you start not valuing other lives because it fundamentally changes your understanding of existence and people's rights to it. That's why depressed nihilistic people are some of the most scary, because you assume that even if they don't value their own life they must at least still have the understanding of the concept that other people have the right to live. But that's not necessarily true because being that depressed can completely warp the mind. That's what Sue Klebold tries to teach. It's us who can't understand that feeling, who have to feel that people are hateful and evil monsters who relish the bad things they do, because that's the only way we can understand it.

[@melanieridge1424]

The police deserve much of the blame. Even if Dylan's parents had reported him, would they have done anything? They didn't do anything about Eric despite endless reports.

[@kelb6073]

No, they wouldn't have done anything. The most that would happen is they would end up in a psych ward for maybe 2 days. But if they aren't suicidal or admit to homicidal tendencies, they might not even be there for 2 days. Cops often don't do anything until after the fact.

[@brangrah1717]

@kelb6073 there is no point in applying common sense, this comment section is a madhouse.

[@JakeKoenig]

Do what exactly? You can't lock people up for crimes you think they MIGHT commit someday. This isn't the Minority Report. Tom Cruise isn't going to fast-rope in from a helicopter to arrest a potential mass shooter. What planet do you people live on? 😂

[@thegrimharvest]

That's the worst part about it, truly. I thought the whole meta of "So no one could have known about crazy shooter?" "Well....sure we were warned 27 separate times, and by 27 different sources, but there was nothing we could do." "Nothing?" "We were this close to catching them in time." I thought that meta was a fairly recent phenomenon, but now I'm thinking it was always the meta from the very beginning. In the greater narrative, generally Columbine started the trend and started the META. If so, then the failure of law enforcement and the school officials was founded as the base level of how these incidents are supposed to work. Sue is a useful idiot narcissist who doesn't want to admit to any responsibility or accountability for her own failures to do anything to stop her kid from committing atrocities. There's possibly a legal aspect to it, to a small extent, since admitting fault could be used against her...but it's probably mostly just narcissism. She's a useful idiot for the sake of the gun grabbers and the disarming agenda. If you take her at her word, the police at their word, the fbi at their word, the school officials at their word, then gun grabbing and confiscation of firearms is the only possible safety measure to prevent this tragedy from happening again. Because the narrative is "it's impossible to know who could or would do this. It could be literally anyone anywhere at anytime. It could be your friend, your coworker, your pastor, your lover, your spouse, it could be your own child. And you will never know and can never know until it's too late! You have no responsibility and no accountability to protect or prevent this. In fact, you literally cannot. It is factually impossible. We can't either. All the kings horses and all the kings men, right now, still can't stop it from happening again. Which is why the king needs to raise your taxes so he can have more horses and more men, and why you need to surrender your arms to him, for your own safety and the safety of the rest of your village. Trust the king and the kings horses and the kings men to save you, although they have no actual factual duty or obligation to do so when the Vikings are attacking, as was made so shining and crystal clear in the village of Uvalde. But go ahead and pay the kings horses new higher tax for more horses and more men and surrender your arms, this time it will probably be different. Maybe. The king is under no obligation and makes no express guarantees. His horses and his men will definitely be there after the carnage to note the official death count and assess the loss of tax revenue, so as to properly adjust the increase on the remaining villagers who managed to survive the Vikings attack. Remember, Sue Klebold said you can't know a viking attack is ever coming, even when they're in your backyard singing SPAM SPAM SPAM LOVELY SPAM"

[@slopadoodle]

META meaning self-referencing? You are making some important points. The reason that I'm asking is so that I can truly understand what the META reference means/ what its definition is. I am very much so against taking away the rights of law abiding firearms owners because others break the law. Your insight is a critically helpful support of law abiding firearms owners. I do also feel, however, that the words that you use against this woman, name-calling and such, chew away and work against your very important arguments.

[@isabelled.7732]

THANK YOU. I thought the video I saw criticizing her the other day was so harsh. Did she make mistakes? Yes. But she’s using her platform as a form of atonement and as a way to educate others. I actually have a deep respect for her- sharing her story knowing how she was going to be opening herself up for ridicule was incredibly brave.

[@spreadwuvokay]

I guess it was brave to present yourself as so unlikable.

[@isabelled.7732]

I feel like no matter what she said or did, someone would have a problem with it, simply because of who she was the mother of.

[@spreadwuvokay]

@@isabelled.7732 I don't think you give people enough credit, and even then that's not like totally UNreasonable.

[@autism_momma_LosAngeles]

Sue is an angel compared to the mom of the Sandy Hook shooter. She KNEW her son was on the spectrum, depressed and she bought him guns. Also Crimo, the parade shooter's father-, and Ethan Crumbley's parents. They knew their sons had issues and bought guns anyway.

[@It-is-me...Melsie]

Exactly. I often think many of the parents of school shooters should also be charged because they're near on complicit. Sue was not even close to what many of those other parents have been.

[@KarisPigNose]

Yes.

[@Flamsterette]

Crimo?

[@carlmanvers5009]

On the topic of Sandy Hook, what was the motive for that shooting? I've seen a differing explanations, but none of them succinctly explain it.

[@teresajeffries3934]

​@carlmanvers5009 that's because that scenario was a set up by demoncrats and obummer to start the gun ban. Notice how quickly it was hushed up? No photographs of the school, the home, nothing? I still remember a video of one of the fathers holding a huge picture of his kid, just a day or two after this. He was laughing, cutting up, joking with reporters, then when he got infront of the cameras, suddenly he was a basket case. Very fishy and fake. So much of sandyhook did not ring true.

[@sarawilliams5464]

That was a very graceful analysis...I believe Sue serves as a reminder to all parents - Be as involved as you can be with your children on a deeply personal level. This is hard enough and gets harder once your children reach adolescence - BUT, I believe it is very hard for someone to truly hide things from you when you have a genuinely intimate relationship with them...I mean, many parents neglect their children, at least emotionally to a degree- We are often too absorbed with our own B.S. (marriage, work, bills, social-life, other children etc) to REALLY be there like we should be...This can have disastrous consequences.

[@megalopolis2015]

I think your insight is spot on. I saw her Ted Talk, and she sppeared very remorseful and deeply troubled by the signs she missed. She deflects slightly by presuming that anyone would have missed the signs, as well. She's seemingly consistent in her views and statements, and much of it I found helpful. I think that many parents, myself included, are petrified that we'll miss something important, that our kids are hiding some of their thoughts and feelings, to their detriment and those around them. It does happen, and somewhat often, even though the things kids hide aren't usually so extreme. It happened to me, too. I thought we all had open dialogue, and that they could come to me for any reason, when the truth was they did, but not for everything, which threw me off. My oldest explained it later that she knew I wouldn't approve of everything she was doing, and she didn't want to disappoint me. The horrible truth is, we can do a lot of things right, but we can't always prevent things from going wrong. I'm heartbroken for the families who no longer have their children, and that includes Sue, who, as you so eloquently stated, is not allowed to Love her son.

[@KrisBryant15]

She wasn't remorseful. She's only upset that her son embarrassed her and exposed her flaws as a parent.

[@sylviaowega3839]

As a parent of two children myself, I can tell you that many parents are often in denial when it come to their kids’ shortcomings, and their inner dark side. This also happens with my oldest brother and uncle (my mother’s youngest brother), whom turned out to be horrible individuals.

[@darlingdeb7010]

​@ampow6373 ummm no. Having children is not selfish. What an out if touch, awful thing to say. Not being an involved parent is selfish.

[@sylviaowega3839]

@@darlingdeb7010​​⁠ I certainly do agree with you. Having children and raising them is certainly not selfish, since it take an exuberant amount of hard work. When we raise our children and teach them how to reason and I still them a moral compass and work ethic we not only do our children a favour, but also contribute greatly to the society we live with in.

[@darlingdeb7010]

@sylviaowega3839 YESSSSSSS!!! Thank you for being a wonderful parent that gets it ❤️❤️.

[@sylviaowega3839]

@@darlingdeb7010I try … , -but thanks! 😊

[@Andrea-xs4ny]

Sue Klebold gives us insight, from a perpetrator's family, where we rarely hear it. It's important for us to read and hear from this point of view. I can't imagine being in her shoes and not being able to mourn as others mourn, and to carry this until you die. Klebold and Harris ruined so many lives. If only things had turned out differently. The devastation seeps into infinite corners of the community and the world. Since Columbine, there have been over 300 fatal school shootings. Sue can be part of the conversation that works towards help and towards a solution.

[@carlholland3819]

ya she gives us a great example of what not to do

[@yoleeisbored]

At least she didn't run away and hide.. the money she made from her book she donated all of the money she made

[@JakobusVdL]

The rate of multi homicides in the US is horrendous. There are things that could be done to limit this - gun control for instance, but 'the right to gun ownership' is such a politically charged issue in the US.

[@香料國境]

American schools are full of bullies. I was bullied all the way through. My pleas to the school and parents didn't result in any improvement. At times i had to deal with life threatening and highly insulting situations. Once i had it in my power, i relocated overseas. My heart goes out to all those who are bullied in the American school system. My condolences to all the victims of this horrible tragedy.

[@gamma747]

That's why people who are in charge actually need to start doing things (otherwise why do they have their jobs??)--instead of having certain students then go on to...something possibly worse--because not everybody has the luxury of being within a "normal range" and not everything is going to "get so much better once you leave". Not to mention the permanent emotional/mental/chemical/neurological damage done that we can't just magically throw away. Not everybody has the luxury of relocating/uprooting/etc. for various reasons--medical/mental or financial or otherwise. It's why I'm a huge advocate (and always have been since I was a kid) of bringing back harsher punishments for bad/violent students that make things scary--and bad teachers/staff who abuse their positions (not just in religious schools)--and bad/selfish/lackadaisical parents most of all! They're a _huge_ chunk of the problem! And I'm not talking "bad" homes as in income/views/beliefs/etc.--just in general. Income has nothing to do with it. As for beliefs/views...that can get a lot more complicated/I come from a place where everybody's very very chameleon-like in that sense. Seriously--people who are _supposed_ to be helping you will slam door after door after door in your face--and there will be no visible consequences for people who should have them. And if you try to stand up for yourself? YOU get punished--child or teenager! Then they (sometimes) get to "move on" in life and you don't, to a degree--depending on what you end-up developing in the process--which of course then _you'll_ be blamed for somehow instead. _If you have a personal bad family-history that you learn bits & pieces of here & there/that was there from the beginning but in an insidious/not obvious way--even worse._ Bring back harsh punishments for bad/scary students who make things scary/problematic for other students and in some cases the staff--that will last--and actually start helping the ones who need it without wasting their money and telling them to "just wait a little bit more" for things that might only 50/50-chance happen/get better in the future! Hell--take them out of the schools/etc. altogether and put them somewhere where they can't harm anybody. That said--don't worry--I'm not like this all the time/today just happens to be the worst day I've had in a long time. _I'd be screwed if I didn't actually actively search & seek out better people/better things--now there's some nice compensation for me. It's not much--but it'll have to do for now._ I mean it's not like I'm going to be compensated for my younger years/all of the money wasted on "therapists" who made me worse instead/medication that I shouldn't be having to pay for because I didn't choose anything--but I _do_ understand that you can't expect much out of people or out of Life in general so I'm working on just taking what I can get and trying to find happiness in a "simple" life. But yeah--maybe if parents actually did what they were supposed to--denormalize competition/bullying (that's half the battle) denormalize "standards" and take away all kinds of other things like that (including worth based on marks/awards/abilities/etc. but instead HUMANITY) then I think people would be SO much better off. And for heaven's sake denormalize weapons/war/violence and emphasis on "perfection" and on "the best" like in the movie Death Of A Cheerleader/A Friend To Die For! All those other things. Doesn't matter if it's the "local culture". Make-up a BETTER culture/identity. A SAFER one. Sorry to sound like a hippie but take a look around--has anything else worked?? No!! EDIT: Oof--sorry. Almost went into a panic-attack there but got out of it. Go me, I guess.

[@dianecripps204]

​@@gamma747: I feel your pain.

[@fredd5294]

There are bullies everywhere but in western/ south Europe or Latin America it plays a big role the family and community support. People with mental problems get quickly noticed by the group, and it’s relatively easy to find medical or psychological help. Bullies can always put in their place by a brother, cousin, uncle, etc. And thrhow onto the mix that we don’t have access to assault rifles like they were a pair of snickers.

[@donotreply8979]

Lol you think the US is bad with bullying? Go to South America, Korea, Japan, China and then come back here

[@pewsterbaby]

@@donotreply8979 Yeah, I've heard China is really bad from a very successful American who lived there 10 years. He said Chinese isolate an individual and everyone takes up against them. The group vs. the individual thing.

[@cosmos5623]

Well done Dr Grande. Thank you for your objective analysis on such a painful topic.

[@edwardshell1289]

I was living in Denver as an RN at the time of Columbine incident. The community of Littleton still has scars from this tragedy. The Klebolds’ and Harris family were in the spotlight of blame. The pain in the community was exponential due to the death of so many kids and teachers. Littleton is an affluent community. I believe her book and Ted Talk presentation is a step towards healing for her and her effort to cope. I remember hearing she was having a very hard time coping. Areas where she still has weakness will become strengths for her. Keeping her hair appointment could have been she was dealing with disbelief her son did this and was in shock. Thank you for analyzing this case.

[@edwardshell1289]

@@JuneBug_87 I believe the families moved. I moved an hour away from Denver.

[@sentienthamster]

@@edwardshell1289 The Harris' were still there for at least some time. I lived a few miles from the school and worked with the father for a few years after.

[@thecheese4255]

Two things I learned from this event: 1. I was in my last semester of college when this happened. There were more than a few ppl on campus who had an almost celebratory reaction. It was as if they could project themselves into the role of the boys. This happened and I believe, regardless of any later posturing to the contrary, there are ppl who will assert, “Yeah. I get you, bro.” My take on this is, “Okay. Now you know who the potential psychos in the immediate vicinity might be.” 2. Hindsight is always 20/20. I mean, all reasonable ppl tend to know this, but events like this reinforce this human reaction. “I would’ve seen it coming.” Okay. Easy to say. My brother-in-law was a horrible human being. It’s amazing he never actually acted on his antisocial drives. His abuse of animals alone was enough IMO to see him institutionalized. His biggest apologist and enabler was his mother. She was arguably the complete opposite of Dylan’s mother and yet never dealt with a horror like this. Trust me when I say the world is a better place with that dude gone. Alcohol ended him... and oddly enough probably was the one factor that kept him from harming others.

[@PixivityComputerSpecialists]

Momma's always see the best in their kids...even the troubled and naughty ones. Momma's love their kids unconditionally...always "wanting" a good outcome

[@kellyschlumberger1030]

Self-medication is a real thing. It is usually not PROFITABLE to look into a troubled soul's problems.

[@crazycampers5655]

Bravo Dr Grande! You are so empathetic and understanding. I feel terrible for this mother and you sympathetically explained her behavior! She needs our prayers not our admonishment.

[@MichaelLovely-mr6oh]

Even though I have never been to Colorado; if I was in the area and unexpectedly crossed paths with Sue Klebold, I would feel torn between introducing myself and thanking her for writing her book as well as telling her story and simply leaving her alone.

[@kokoBuSiLiCa]

Regardless if the woman has increased narcissistic tendencies or not - she should not be blamed for what her son did. There are deranged people unfortunately, and yeah a lot of contributors and circumstances go to that, but putting the ultimate blame on the parent in this case is just wrong, blatantly wrong.

[@Kangaroojack1986]

Also this was one of the first high profile school shootings. Parents were not thinking thier kids would do something like this.

[@breezey81]

​@@Kangaroojack1986Exactly. There had been a couple of school shootings prior, but not on the scale of the one at Columbine. It set the precedent for modern day school shootings.

[@JennyNobody]

So many people go through the worst kinds of abuse and bullying - they dont commit mass deletion of their piers. To perpetrate such atrocities is only on the individual

[@nukya]

That's what I thinking. Dylan was troubled, but I imagine Sue never thought it was on this level.

[@kristinebautz1859]

To be honest she does share some responsibility. When Eric and Dylan were arrested for breaking into the car, her and her husband should have banned Dylan from hanging out with Eric. As a parent you have to be involved in your child's life. We will not know for sure but maybe she could have seen something really wrong if she was more present in his life.

[@BlessYourHeart254]

How much control do parents really have over 17- or 18-year-olds? Sometimes parents can do all the things, most of them right, and their kid has a mind of their own. Fortunately as a parent, I didn’t have to deal with a horrific situation, but wonder what I would have done or could have done, had I been faced with one. I agree it’s uncharted territory for most parents, thankfully.

[@aisoconcranberriesu2as]

Yeah, I don't think she could have stopped him seeing his best friend. He would have seen him behind her back. He was about 17. I don't know how much control a parent could really have over a kid that age.

[@mariamatheson5300]

@@aisoconcranberriesu2as exactly.

[@ellen5165]

I know she is the one who has gone public, and left herself open to criticism, but the kid also had a father in the home. If there was bad parenting and signs were missed, the father is just as responsible. The fact he hasn't written about it doesn't absolve him from his responsibility.

[@janegardener1662]

You don't have to *write a book* in order to feel remorse or accept responsibility in this situation. His wife decided to go public instead of dealing with it privately. No wonder they divorced.

[@ellen5165]

@@ekl2947 I think a lot more than bad parenting is to blame as well. However, most of the comments here and to other reports I've seen blame her directly and seldom, if ever, mention the father. If there were missed signs, for example, he is equally as culpable as her.

[@thesecondYouTube]

Her and the husband both must have smelt the cigarettes and noticed the vodka drinking. Let alone seen the cutting on the arms.

[@dianne9365]

@@thesecondKZbin What? A young adult having a cigarette or a drink of alcohol is a red flag that they may become a mass killer.! I find the American puritan attitude so strange in a country which has a mass of major issues, of which cigarettes and booze are minor players.

[@debra1363]

So much for all the so-called conservatives screaming that "a father in the home" is the solution to all society's problems.I don't know anything one way or the other about Mr.Klebold,but just as often,the father IS the problem.

[@karenwk1760]

I feel bad for her. It’s a leap to assume a teenager will go from a theft to mass murder. It was the the “first” big one that I remember. It was unheard of before. She is suffering too

[@LaceBlood]

The warning signs are things that we know to look for BECAUSE of this case. Unfortunately you don’t know what to look for until after the fact

[@donotreply8979]

She raised a nasty incel

[@outtahere156]

I don't feel sorry for narcissists.

[@pontusbackman1863]

Don't' be sorry. The more you listen to her, you will notice she talks a lot about herself,how she ain't at fault at all, although she denied Dylan was hanging with Eric, making excuses for Dylan before Columbine but even now.. The more you listen, you will notice she is selfcentered af.

[@sammywilliam8156]

​@@outtahere156yep

[@rayross997]

Some of the survivors and even parents have taken their own lives since Columbine. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on their struggles. Thanks Dr. Grande for all your work.

[@RachelWrites]

yes, my college roommates were in the Columbine shooting and they were always going home for funerals.

[@kathynordskog9271]

Amen 😭😢

[@kathynordskog9271]

@RachelWrites How incredibly heartbreaking😢😭 I am so sorry the victims and their families. And also for the survivors. How painful it must be to kove with this trauma.

[@MichaelLovely-e6d]

One such person is Carla Hochhalter. She was the mother of Columbine survivor Anne Marie Hochhalter and took her own life six months after the tragedy. This really put Anne Marie through the wringer as she not only had to get used to life in a wheelchair and deal with the stress of media intrusion; she now had to grieve the loss of her mother. When asked if the tragedy at Columbine High School drove her mother to take her own life; Anne Marie is quick to say no and explain that her mother had struggled with Depression for years, so while the tragedy did not cause her mother to become depressed or take her own life it didn't help her either. Anne Marie wrote an open letter to Sue on Facebook that was of forgiveness instead of condemnation following the publication of Sue's book and her interview with ABC News anchor Diane Sawyer. As one can imagine people came out in full force to call Anne Marie a fool for choosing to forgive Sue instead of further condemning her to a life of scorn, disdain, hatred, ridicule and contempt.

[@RobertWGreaves]

I simply cannot imagine dealing with such a horrific tragedy as a parent.

[@evilzarmy1]

She created the tragedy, she is the monster

[@jakethepillowsnake5302]

She abused him

[@kendallr6323]

@@jakethepillowsnake5302it was WAY different back then. Saying she is solely responsible for his actions is ridiculous

[@kendallr6323]

@@evilzarmy1that is not fair at all

[@nickchivers9029]

I can't imagine dealing with such a horrific tragedy of a mother.

[@AlewynMarie]

Agree completely Dr. G - it would surprise me if Sue didn’t exhibit some clouded judgement towards her son’s actions. I’m certain she thinks she’s doing the best she can do given the past & tragic circumstances.

[@raymondtillotson6985]

I lost a good friend to suicide a number of years ago. I spent too long afterwards blaming myself, looking at the "clues" I should have seen on time. After a while I realized there was little I could have done, that hindsight in these cases is more obvious than helpful. I imagine her case is similar, it's easier after the fact to see what you could have done different.

[@plenarygrace]

Being a parent is hard, especially if one is working outside the home. Even if Sue and her husband had forbidden Dylan from spending time with Eric after their arrest, Dylan may have chosen to do so in secret. IMO, Sue deserves credit for having the COURAGE to speak publicly about the terrible tragedy, her son, her family, and her own role as Dylan's mother. None of the other three parents did that. None of us are perfect. She has my sympathy.

[@It-is-me...Melsie]

Absolutely! It's terrible feeling like you spend almost every waking hour at work and are not around for your child as much as you'd like to be. It's not as if we all have a choice, and can leave you feeling guilty, tired, sad, etc. I can't even imagine what she's had to come to terms with.

[@ronald3836]

Agreed. I think it is for every individual parent to decide whether they want and are able to speak about such a tragedy, but that she chose to do it, opening herself to endless criticism from people who don't know how to spell empathy, is commendable. And the proceeds go to charity, as they should.

[@L-K-Jellyfish]

I remember the parents who would ban their kids from hanging out with other kids - it wasn't possible! And it even made the bond stronger with some of them. People expect _mothers_ to be all powerful while ignoring the fact that they're also told not to be over-bearing and to respect the kids' privacy. And they often forget entirely about the fathers' influence. One person whose mother did take a lot of control over her social life has turned into a raving narcissist. The fact is that there is no guarranteed formula for parenting because each family is unique. Parenting is an art rather than a science. When there is a tragedy like a school mass shooting, people want there to be a strong, definite and simple solution but there isn't one... except banning guns. That works but the US won't do it.

[@It-is-me...Melsie]

@@L-K-Jellyfish Well said 👍

[@thekelth]

Our society is quick to scapegoat anyone with ties to these type of crimes.

[@KarisPigNose]

The lack of empathy towards this woman concerns me.

[@GigiRulesTheRoost]

@@KarisPigNose I concur wholeheartedly

[@nhmooytis7058]

Anyone? She was his MOTHER!

[@nhmooytis7058]

@@KarisPigNosewhy does she deserve it for raising a mass murderer?

[@edwardc.8031]

​@nhmooytis7058 what would you suggest she should have done?

[@l-train7876]

This poor woman has to drag this around with her for the rest of her life, I cannot begin to imagine the burden this must be on her.

[@KarisPigNose]

It's too painful for me to imagine. I wouldn't want to live. I hope she has a modicum of happiness in her life. She's truly existing in a living hell.

[@kuroneko7022]

Too bad she and her husband, not only her, weren’t so dismissive of his behavior before the murders. There was a lot of privilege in her behavior.

[@Blackheathenly]

So much a burden that she goes on a money-making speaking junket to make herself feel better, I guess.

[@l-train7876]

@@kuroneko7022 tell us what about her behavior was privileged?

[@VioletteValentine]

I'm so glad I read Sue Klebold's book. I thought she had deep insight and she tried to help others understand how this horrifying tragedy all came about. Society loves to blame mothers for anything and everything. People are so quick to judge others...which is really our own loss. Also, until we experience Earth-shattering tragedies that defy human comprehension, we remain clueless.

[@catinthehat906]

I agree, as a Forensic Psychiatrist specialising in adolescents there are kids out there with way more disordered behaviour that never end up doing anything like this.

[@Celisar1]

Indeed, mothers much, much, much more than fathers.

[@MaureenDoyle]

Thank you. I was very concerned about this video. I have read Sue’s book and attended a talk given by her. I commend Sue for speaking out and trying to have a conversation around a very difficult topic and appreciate her giving of herself to help. Your analysis was just great - and I learned a bit about why others might not appreciate her efforts. Empathy and compassion is always helpful. :-)

[@dg2517]

This resonates with me as I have a child with serious behavioral problems and lack of empathy. As a parent, when I’ve raised concerns my concerns were ignored and dismissed repeatedly. When the school raises concerns only then are they considered valid and they blame the parents for everything all the while refusing to offer any kind of meaningful effective support or relief. Raising kids like this is an unrewarding nightmare.

[@alternativetentacles1760]

When someone doesn’t naturally have empathy it’s important to develop cognitive empathy. Even if they don’t genuinely feel it they can at least understand prison is not a good future if they don’t try to be good citizens. I’m only capable of cognitive empathy. In my teens I was expelled from school because I had no self awareness my impulsive behaviors had life changing consequences. The human brain doesn’t fully develop until around age 25. Patience, love, and good good guidance make a difference even with the most difficult teens.

[@bizygirl1]

I went through it with one of my kids too. There were times I doubted my own sanity when enduring the lack of response from schools, therapists and other mental health professionals, doctors, etc. once adolescence started the issues only got worse. Then the law got involved, then the finger pointing at us, the parents began. We turned it around on the legal system when they didn’t enforce their threats. Unfortunately, our home became a battleground or it felt that way for awhile. Things got worse before they got better. But they did get better. I love that grown man so much and I’m so proud of the person he’s become. He’s had many struggles but he’s forged through. I didn’t always handle things the right way. I had to examine myself and make changes too. These are family issues not just the individual kid who’s acting out. Not to blame her for her sons choices. By his age he was making his own deliberate decisions separate from his parents. But his issues had been dismissed for a long time before this tragically horrific event happened.

[@MrEgofreak]

@@alternativetentacles1760 Couldn't agree more! As the Red Hot Chili Peppers sang, "There's a love that knows the way." Look at the "Child of Rage" Beth Thomas. Dr. Grande covered this case as well and, while I didn't learn about Beth's story through him, even though the "therapist" has proven to have unconventional methods that make her work dubious, at least she loved Beth and showed her she can be a good person! And look at what they harvest has reaped, even it is only one success story!

[@dthilgen855]

I also had a very angry son, who did not seem to have empathy. I tried several therapists psychologists and psychiatrists. One therapist wrote in her comments that although I denied being chemically dependent, she believed I must have been and lied about it. I was divorced and we lived under the poverty line. One professional, his truancy officer, understood and was supportive. I finally got a judge to listen to me and my son was sent to a boys ranch for several months. As we were very poor, every penny counted and was needed to remain in my home. The courts took his SSI, as well as child support. A psychologist came right out and told me that I was causing his problems because I was overly involved in his life. I told her, if I was not as involved as I was, I'm sure an incident like columbine would occur. She snubbed her nose up at me. I remained involved and fortunately no one got hurt. I empathize with the parents. It's impossible to get any help. I believe some of the issue was that I was poor and many of the professionals I went to for help assumed I was not a good parent. I believe most parents who have children who did something violent, tried to get help but instead of getting help, were accused of being a poor parent. My son was a paranoid schizophrenic, but was not diagnosed until he was in his 20's. I'm just so thankful that I stayed on top of things and nobody was hurt. I apologize for the choppy wording of my comments. I have a severe cognitive deficit brought about by years of stress and chemotherapy. I felt it was important to add my experience to these comments. I wish I could articulate better, but unfortunately I am not able to. Maybe a child behavior professional will see this and give a parent the benefit of doubt. Parents love their children and try their best to do what is best for their child. My son is doing well. He stays on his medication and functions close to normal. I am so glad I did not give up on him. He is 38 years old and he treats people with respect. He is kind, has empathy and treats me like a queen.

[@nmartin5551]

@@dthilgen855Thank you for sharing your struggles. Thank you for fighting for what was needed. Many people could take a lesson.

[@coffeeisgood102]

Growing up, I was not allowed to associate with children who exhibited negative dispositions such as bad attitude, lack of respect or aggressive behavior. The few friends I had could have walked straight off of a “Leave It To Beaver” set. I believe this contributed to keeping me out of trouble and steering me towards a productive and healthy lifestyle. Thank you mum.

[@WoodysAR]

There was a whole Family i was not allowed to play with. They were kind of always dirty? My Mom did NOT like that Family!

[@coffeeisgood102]

@@WoodysAR You had a good mum.

[@darlingdeb7010]

THIS!! You had great parents who paid attention to you, were active in your life, and taught you how to make good decisions in life. So many parents fail at this. Just like Dylan and Eric's parents.

[@iwontreplybacklol7481]

Lol. You should listen to yourself sometime.

[@RarityArchive]

This is not healthy lol

[@charlotteryan6398]

Eric Harris was writing about what he wanted to do... he posted about it publicly on his website. A parent of one of their classmates (Randy Brown) was so concerned that he reported it to the police, several times. This wasn't a total shock to Sue Klebold.

[@aprilhelm518]

@@ekl2947 It's on multiple people.

[@rebeccapiamonte]

To be fair, the internet and websites weren't really as accessible as they are now. We had Dial-up, AOL online cd's to get online. Social media wasn't really popular. Random chat rooms were the thing. To find his personal website, you would have had to know it even existed.

[@pamelawolf313]

I’m proud of Sue for not cowering from this topic. I’ll be honest, after her divorce I expected her to change her last name to make life easier on her. So props to her for just being a normal parent dealing with an extremely rare problem.

[@Gigi-fp8pd]

You don't know the whole story. She was warned many times about her son's behavior and she did nothing. The parents who warned her even notified the police but nothing was done.

[@bronte333]

I'm not proud of her at all. I think she should keep her thoughts private. Yes, he will always be her son but the rest of the world does not need to know that he had positive characteristics. He murdered many innocent individuals. That is his legacy.

[@BayAreaJaybo]

​@@bronte333People can be both great and terrible. They can commit acts of great kindness or philanthropy *and* unspeakably horrific acts. No one is all good or all bad. That's being human.

[@bronte333]

@@BayAreaJaybo she can remember the 'great' things about her child. No amount of talking about him in public changes the fact that he chose to murder multiple people. In my book, that puts him beyond the 'no one is good or bad' cliche.

[@lenaannis8787]

@@bronte333 Ι agree She can remember anything she wants about her son. But pls do it in privacy. Dont write a book about it,and really do people buy books like this one she wrote....??

[@matthewcrome]

This whole situation reminds me of the movie adaptation of We Need to Talk About Kevin. Tilda Swinton's performance really captured the grief and isolation that comes with being the mother of a kid who has committed crimes like this, and how society tends to blame the parents, which makes the grief even worse. It's important to point out that Columbine was one of the first mass school shootings in the US to be nationally recognized, and parents and teachers were not on the lookout for signs for that reason. Even when the parents do try to step in, the legal/mental health system fails in many cases and the kids still have easy access to weapons. I don't know if Sue would have succeeded in intervening even if she had noticed the warning signs.

[@dizzymindy6024]

That was a sad,sad movie. The pain Tilda conveys, gut wrenching pain, and how to get through everyday being treated as the enemy, when it was actually the actions of her child.

[@GigiRulesTheRoost]

The book is even more compelling than the movie. Both, though, are very brutal. You are so right. Tilda's performance in the movie is epic.

[@pokeman5000]

On the basic human level no one person is responsible for the actions of another. Some people ARE just born with a certain maliciousness in their hearts/brains. But that Ted Talk, that book, and those interviews she IS responsible for. They are solely to feed her ego, to protect her narcissism, and an attempt to quiet the voice in her head telling her the truth. People blame the parents because its an easy out and an easy explanation. But her actions have kinda proved them right at least in this case.

[@L-K-Jellyfish]

The guns are the sign!!! But if everyone's got guns and men are entitled to go into a rage about not having them, then how can you tell who is going on a mass shooting spree today and who isn't? Just ban the bloody guns FFS!

[@queenofhearts6127]

The thing about ‘We Need to Talk About Kevin’ is that they never did talk about him - she was always dismissed by her Husband. Tilda’s character saw all the warning signs - especially on the day she found out Kevin had killed her Daughter’s Guinea Pig in the worst way (plus he assisted in blinding his Sister). At that point, after all the manipulation and psychopathic behavior from her Son, I’m sure many people would have had him committed with intense Mother/Son therapy. All she did to try and repair the past was to take him for a day out. The film shows that she still loved and supported him despite the destruction of her family and the event at the school. She became the scapegoat living out in the world, taking all the blame. I think she felt responsible for his actions due to her Post Partum Depression - he felt deeply unloved, unwanted and felt the need to punish her. A very moving film showing the complexities of a Mother’s relationship with her Son. Was he inherently evil or just a child that felt unloved and unwanted by his Mother? I feel it was a lethal combination of the two things.

[@elleblur5]

Columbine is one of those cases where there's always something new being uncovered. It's impact is still felt to this day. Thanks for the coverage Dr. Grande!

[@Aaron-kj8dv]

That was the first big school shooting that I remember and now it feels so common

[@Flamsterette]

*ITS

[@Flamsterette]

@@Aaron-kj8dv Don't forget Brenda Spencer or the guys in the 1800s. They're so common now that I fail to muster up any empathy.

[@MLLambert]

This is a most compassionate and meaningful analysis of an unfathomable tragedy. It was balanced and well reasoned.

[@prettypuff1]

What would she have to do to redeem herself? 1999 parenting did not include anything about mental health. We are able to retroactively identify problems with Dylan now because we pay attention to them.

[@carlholland3819]

theres nothing she can do. parenting has always included mental health, but yes its always easier to critique the past than the present

[@SP-qi8ur]

You say that because you don’t know the context. Dylan’s parents were long aware of his association with the extremely problematic Eric, aware of his many illegal acts, aware of death threats he had issued.

[@moonshineblues204]

Having lived through 90s parenting and parenthood, if I recall she was a bad parent by 90s standard.

[@prettypuff1]

@@carlholland3819 how was the mother responsible for bullying?

[@KdotLINE]

She can't redeem herself. She should admit her son was a monster, and just go away.

[@katherinehutton9870]

I've seen a lot of conversation about her on KZbin lately but it's mostly from people that weren't old enough to have to remember Columbine. I was in college when it happen and it was a shock to everybody. Nobody ever thought this could happen. It had never happened before. It was a completely new thing. To have even thought that your child might do this was Insane. I don't think that people that are around now that are younger realize that we didn't have a concept of this when it happened beause now it happens every week and you just wait to hear about it. To think that your child no matter what their issues are might go and do this, wasn't even a thought in anybody's head. I knew tons of people who made pipe bombs. It was something gen X. did all the time. We weren't exactly watched. We did all kinds of things but no had done this. Fist fight you know but no one came up with a plan to do a mass shooting. I do not think people understand how unbelievable this act was at the time that it happened. Plus I don't think people understand that at the time mental health was not discussed at all. My mother was bipolar and they didn't even talk about it at the time. There were no medications that really work for her until later in her life. Mental health was not an issue because it was not talked about. So to judge her actions back then from a lens from today I don't think is fair. I also think her coming out and talking about it and trying to telling people her story and the signs to look for and what she went through and what she saw is important. Because what parents thinks that their child can do thson' Mental illness runs in my family and I was raised in this. I myself came from a very dysfunctional family and also had mental health issues. To be honest I even kept a bottle of pills in a drawer in case I needed an out. The only help I ever got was once a school consulor came to my house with dessert and told me that I needed to learn to bend like a willow in the wind. I still have no clue what this means. I don't know how many times I was told something was a phase, or a few months from now you won't feel this way. There was no real help for anybody. Since then I have seen a lot of my friends die because of these issues. We didn't get help back then. I was actually lucky I had a mother who didn't candy coat anything and told us everything that she had gone through and all her symptoms. She also told us she was there for us and that she would stand up for us. I knew I could talk to her and that got me through. For this reason I've made sure that my 5 sons have always known about mental health and that I was here to talk no matter what they had to say. Each 1 of them has come to me at different times with issues that we have gotten help for. I think everyone in their lives comes to these points but not everyone is taught they have someone there for them or how to take care of it. I hope the trend of discussing these topics and being there for each other continues. I see it in my sons and their friends and I'm happy that things have changed for them.

[@WoodyWard]

It happens every week now?

[@colleenwelch2330]

It had happened before but the numbers were lower

[@mayhewfisher62]

I still remember exactly where I was when it happened, and the utter shock. A turning point.

[@amycaitlyn1120]

@@mayhewfisher62 Same for me. Now these things happen all the time. When Columbine happened, it was a shock to all of us. I was in my mid-twenties.

[@ijustneedmyself]

​@@colleenwelch2330My first awareness of school shootings was the Westside Middle School shooting in Arkansas. I was going on 14.

[@marianaeksteen4437]

My first question- where was the father? Why was all responsibility hers?

[@3DPT]

He was there... but Sue is taking the heat for it.

[@Fractal_blip]

​@@3DPTmore like she is capitalizing on it. Eric's family refused to speak on it, quietly accepting they fostered a monster from birth I assume.

[@2804Freedom]

Not in the limelight, not giving pep talks and not writing and selling books.

[@edvh88]

@@2804Freedomyou know, she gave the profits to charity. This could be her way of processing, grieving, and trying to make any amends it is possible to make.

[@DavidE-vc8gy]

She was the one giving the public talk.

[@tonymcdonnly6492]

Good analysis and review of this case, Dr. Grande. Thank you for helping to clarify this case.

[@audradaniels4161]

She’s brave for putting herself out there. Her experience should not be dismissed. She has a valuable perspective which can give us insight into school violence perpetrators. As a parent, I deeply empathize with the agony and complexity of her experience.

[@cococock2418]

Brave? It’s called narcissism sweaty.

[@audradaniels4161]

@@cococock2418 well thanks for your opinion, cupcake…..and I think you meant to say “sweetie”

[@georgek685]

​@@audradaniels4161😂😂😂😂. You got 'em

[@NoOne-sn2si]

I think sweaty narcissism is the worst type of narcissism to be around, as not only are they a bore to be around but also stinky!

[@audradaniels4161]

@@HoldMyLatte-x6t I was just looking for my next audiobook. I’ll check it out thank you!! 😍

[@sherrylewis6932]

Having been a school counselor in Littleton Public Schools at the time of the Columbine Shooting, I would challenge one statement, and that is that because this was over 20 years ago, and awareness and education has grown and changed dramatically in that time, I don't know that "with the same information as Sue, most other people would have acted on it". A lot more of that behavior went 'under the radar' and unaddressed. That was the largest and most dramatic school shooting up to that point in history. No one could imagine such a thing. We have grown immensely in our understanding in the time since then, but then, it could have happened to others as well. Parents often have no idea what to do, and supports systems are inadequate at best, but often not even available. Of course I wish she would have know and acted. But living through that time in that area, I don't blame her.

[@verngrl]

Agreed. While I don't agree with a lot of Mrs. Klebold's recent justifications, the one thing I will give her grace on is that, at the time, school shootings were NOT common and the signs were NOT well-known amongst the public. It is easy with hindsight and (unfortunately) many analysis samples to choose from to see the signs now, but in the 90s there was a BIG difference between "worrying your son was going down a bad path with bad friends and committing property crimes" and "realistically believing he was going to become a psychotic mass shooter at his high school." It just...wasn't on society's radar back then. Should she have gotten intervention for her son and his anti-social behavior regardless? Absolutely. But I just don't think it's fair to say she should have "seen the signs" when her son, unfortunately, was one of the ones who created the mold for this kind of thing.

[@mariamatheson5300]

Thank you. What was also ignored was the bullying that was rampant at Columbine, jocks slamming kids against the walls, while teachers looked the other way. Imagine 4 years of that.

[@migsy1]

@@mariamatheson5300the shooters were bullies.

[@ConfusedRevolutionary]

​@@migsy1nah

[@MichaelLovely-mr6oh]

I know that while many in Littleton have largely forgiven Sue Klebold as a means trying to move forward and not let their anger drag them down; others still despise Sue and think of her as a monster.

[@oceanstaiga5928]

I do appreciate her coming forward as no others did. I remember being enraged hearing the Robb Elementary perpetrator’s mother defend her son immediately, that sure was insensitive. So while Sue is missing the mark a bit she certainly tried to provide the victims some sort of information. Compared to the Harris’ who just moved away silently I’d say she at least did better than them.

[@annabellelee4535]

Why do you believe you're entitled to anything from the Harris family? Personally I think Klebold is trying to shape the narrative so as to diminish the part her son had in it.

[@curiousworld7912]

I've watched this TED Talk, and I thank you for bringing in some historical context to the subject. America, at the time of the Columbine massacre, wasn't accustomed to the almost daily mass shootings, as we've since sadly become. Ms. Klebold has stated her feelings of responsibility and guilt about as honestly as I believe most would, given the situation. I can't begin to imagine the violent loss of a child, and Sue Klebold must live with both that grief and horror, as well as with the guilt of being the mother of a son who took so many other children's lives. Was she a 'perfect mother'? Of course not. But, I've not heard or read anything she's related that appears as if she's avoiding any responsibility. I believe she's been honest about her feelings, and courageous in speaking so publicly about the worst nightmare a parent could imagine.

[@williamowens6688]

"In a way - he did" - very powerful - brought tears to my eyes. It's so easy to judge someone else.

[@oblivia1941]

You can be a good parent and get a bad kid and vice versa. This had not happened before, how was she supposed to imagine this was going to happen and so how on earth could she have prevented it? Now it's common place. My kid hid his emotions from me and was apathetic to school and me and his father. I watched him like a hawk. Could I have prevented him shooting up his school? Believe me, I kept an eye on him. I tried to get him counseling but they have to agree to it. He never shot up his school, but I was prepared because of Columbine and other shootings. Not new to us parents now. But how could she have known? She was the first, but not the last.

[@corning1]

What were you looking for and what would you have done if you found some notes say?

[@Rose-hf5mw]

They were making bombs and keeping them in the house. He told her he was unable to control his anger even around her. They were arrested multiple times. Absolutely NOT saying it’s her fault but there were signs. She wasn’t completely clueless and dumbfounded.

[@MotumboJeremias]

What a great gaslighting comment. Who said anything about her needing to have psychic powers? What she needed to do was be a good mother and take responsability and be reflective, not shifting ALL the blame and display her incompetence as a parent through displaying her intense level of narcissism at every chance she gets. But I am not surprised a parent that is willing to talk about their child in the manner that you do, relates with this pathetic narcissist , because you are exactly like her, and you are just lucky you didnt get as bad a son as she did. 🤡

[@pumpkinfield100]

@@Rose-hf5mwhow many examples do you have that show a mother who prevented her son shooting people? Please give me those names

[@mattengland653]

Your child DOES NOT have to agree to counseling - hard to take your comment seriously when you are confidently dead wrong… your child is YOUR responsibility. Until they are considered an adult which is 18 in the United States. Up until that time, not only can you enforce counseling, there was then and there is now quite a myriad of options available when you notice these things. Now, as a father of 3 young children myself, I empathize with her. I believe it is possible she could have been deceived. However, I do not believe that a parent can 100% detach themselves from the person that child becomes. The empirical evidence completely suggests otherwise. Could she have known he was going to annihilate a school? No, I don’t think she could. It’s hard for any parent to imagine that. Could she have known her son was incredibly troubled? That there were indeed signs? ABSOLUTELY AND UNEQUIVOCALLY YES. Children are not born killers - this isn’t Hollywood. There are endless stories of “bad” children born into “bad” situations become perfectly productive law abiding members of society. If you feel like your child is obscuring their thoughts and true nature from you - I implore you to take action.

[@Fliptwisttt245]

Wow this is long overdue BUT super happy you’re covering this topic. I always found it intriguing that Sue is even speaking out in the first place.

[@rw7975]

She's NPD - it created a platform for her; serious attention and audience... she loves it.

[@Fliptwisttt245]

@@rw7975what’s NPD?

[@charlies4ngelz]

@@Fliptwisttt245narcissistic personality disorder. he just lied btw.

[@Fliptwisttt245]

@@charlies4ngelz he just lied? Who?

[@charlies4ngelz]

@@Fliptwisttt245 @rw7975

[@sallypope7871]

A year earlier, Kip Kinkle killed his parents at their home. The next morning, he then drove to his school and killed two students and wounded many more. Brave students rushed him and prevented many more victims. Kip was a hero to these two disturbed young men. Of course, his parents never had to live with the shame of what he had done.

[@jondrew55]

I have a son that presented many of the same behaviors as Dylan. We did everything we could , but at some point there’s just nothing more you can do and you have to cruise on faith they won’t become a monster like Dylan did. Mine got through it. Most do. Parents can only do so much

[@theresanolan1157]

True

[@SIRIishly]

Wtf.. if he really presented similarly to Dylan than no, cruise control is not the best or morally correct thing to do for anyone outside you're immediate family. This mindset gets people killed.

[@jakethepillowsnake5302]

She abused him

[@cl5080]

@@jakethepillowsnake5302 What makes you believe that?

[@jondrew55]

@@Reggae_Bubbles yea, who needs another generation of KZbin mouthbreathing trolls?

[@legoqueen2445]

We don't have easy access to guns here in Australia but I remember the rage I felt as a teen and the darkness. The rage came from a lot of hurts and disaapointments as well as the limits to the circumstances my life was in during my youth. I didn't grow up in the affluence the Columbine shooters experienced, but I can see how that rage, if not handled properly, combined with easy access to guns and someone to encourage my own nihilism, could have turned into some horrific. Instead my rage turned inwards and I became self-destructive. As a mother of a teen aged son I have always tried to encourage open communication and an environment where he can express his emotions, no matter how uncomfortable or awkward they feel. I have seen Sue's talks and cannot fathom how difficult it must be to try to make sense of her son's actions and the consequences those actions had on their community. I know as parents we're all simply trying to do our best, and our kids wont always do what wevwant them to do or match their behaviours with how we've tried to raise them. But in Sue's case there does seem to be a lot of red flags that were missed. I doubt anyone could foresee what ended up happening but police were made aware of videos made by the two saying they planned to kill, lists of intended victims were shared and former friends had warned Sue and her husband that Dylan was hanging out with a dangerous youth. I don't envy her life.

[@pennyc7064]

For the parents out there. What steps do you take in this case when you see the warning signs. How do you prevent your teenage son from hanging out with his friend ( because they will still find a way to hang out even when you tell them not to) and how did he gain easy access to fire arms?

[@darkviolet69]

This was an excellent analysis. I've long pondered that TED talk and could never make up my mind how I felt and thought about it. Thank you for your insight.

[@jodiearrington]

Great analysis Dr. Grande. I really appreciate you're amazing skills in collecting all the information and facts and logically and intelligently deliver these episodes. As a mother I cannot even imagine how one copes with the aftermath of a child who committed such a crime. I learn so much from this channel. Thank you Dr. Grande and may all the souls who fell victim to this tragedy rest in peace...

[@Flufferz626]

I feel so much for her. She was not a neglectful mom, nor enabling from what I can tell. Her book was mainly apologizing and wondering where she "messed up" again and again. I live in Littleton/Marston/Columbine Valley and it still has an impact on the community. I walk around Clemet Park Lake and the memorial is set up there and it still chokes me up seeing the lives lost and honestly not knowing "why." I guess the unspoken "why" is mental illness and lack of support for it. I'm struggling with mental health (depression, anxiety) and I am so thankful the state of Colorado tries to help its residents after this massacre. I don't wanna hurt anyone except myself, but still...there are so many resources now whereas like 10 years ago there wasn't. Nor in the time of Columbine. Thanks for you nuanced approach to this Dr. Grande I really appreciate it

[@pamelapainter7350]

I haven't read her book but I did hear her talk. I felt she was very brave & sincere. I greatly admire her for being willing to be vulnerable in the most difficult thing that has ever happened and will ever happen in her life. God bless her and give her peace.

[@annadrift4]

A mother is "allowed" to love their child no matter what that child has done. Blaming her and yet not blaming everyone else involved in Dylan's life including the school, law enforcement, students, ect is hypocritical to say the least.

[@everlastinglife5978]

Her blaming everyone except herself is also hypocritical

[@xc5103]

Insanely L take. Sue Klebold has blamed everyone but herself. She's also actively profiting off of the mass murder committed by her son that also led to generations of copycats that terrorizes American schools to this day. Sue Kelbold has literally said "I haven't done anything for which I need forgiveness." Like, wtf??

[@TheSMR1969]

​@@everlastinglife5978she took responsibility and talked extensive about it

[@jibberism9910]

Absurd statement of a child. No more. @@everlastinglife5978

[@everlastinglife5978]

@@TheSMR1969 Ok I didn't see the whole interview. What did she say she should have done?

[@schawnettarobinson8584]

No one wants to believe their kid is a killer.

[@Kabkabmbujimayi]

True but here there was a process, an escalation she didn't want to see

[@MalikaMehdid]

Thanks Dr. Grande! A well-balanced analysis! You rendered this mother's dilemma in a very sensitive and eloquent manner! This woman has all my support; she has gone to hell and back. And her pain did not stop her from trying to reach out to all the other parents who lost children in this tragedy and to engage in a debate about the motives that led those two young boys to go on a killing rampage! It does take a great amount of courage to do that when your own son is one of the killers!

[@renees.2013]

I'm with you on this thought journey. It resonated with me particularly when you said that Sue becomes the de facto object of everyone's anger because Dylan isn't here. She isn't blameless, but she's probably not all these things terrible things I see other KZbinrs label her. I think she's just a normal person who screwed up as a mother and has been publicly reckoning with that for 25 years. People hate her if she speaks out, people hate her if she does not. There's no way of really rehabbing the family's image.

[@Gitn2it]

Why no mention of Dylan's father? He also had a lot to do with Dylan's upbringing.

[@DragonNyah]

I don't understand how anyone can ask how she missed the signs. There are no signs that would make a parent believe their child is capable of such a crime

[@MrASM78]

True. Especially during a time when school shootings weren’t the norm.

[@XxGreatestyouknoWxX]

Sure keep telling yourself that. There are plenty of parents that hate their children.

[@aude2sapere]

Lol WUT. Everyone on the internet that he interacted with knew what was coming. The signs are there, but parents don't see them because their relationships with their children are shallow beyond belief

[@Lilly-hh9es]

Well ,when your son gets arrested its time to wonder....

[@jenanne31]

Thank you for covering this, Dr. Grande. You've changed the way I look at Sue Klebold's behavior.

[@10191927]

I might be alone in this, but I was always suspicious of the parents just magically not knowing what these two were up to, they had weapons and ammunition clearly visible in the house. Like come on lady, you really expect me to believe that?

[@pumpkinfield100]

It’s easier to see everything afterwards, don’t you think

[@10191927]

@@pumpkinfield100- Maybe if the circumstances were a little less obvious, but I’ve always felt there’s just something strange about everything leading up to the Colombine shooting and the parents being otherwise oblivious. They really suspected nothing? At all? I don’t know, there’s just a feeling I can’t shake, never could.

[@zenawarrior7442]

I do feel bad for her. My stepdaughter went to Columbine & we got the call to rush there. Mirinda was luckily in another building. It was scary, first real mass school shooting💔🏥 Excellent analysis again. Thanks Dr G😊💜💜

[@PeggyBeth]

You are such an incredible analyst/observer of the human condition. Thank you for your regular, extremely clear, touchingly honest and reliable broadcasts. Keep flying the flag 🙏

[@xHarlequin]

Excellent analysis. People are so quick to judge when they have the benefit of hindsight. I feel as though Sue brought a lot valuable insight to this topic by speaking about her own mistakes.

[@harrydemkee3580]

I have mixed feelings about this one and I think we may be minimizing some of the clear warnings that were missed or flat out ignored by the parents. When the boys rooms were searched afterwards I recall that the weapons and ammunition were not hidden and even a cursory look through the rooms the parents would have known the boys acquired weapons they should not have had. While I feel compassion for her as a fellow parent I believe she was to busy and rapped up in her own life to really take an in-depth role raising her son, add that he probably did have mental health issues and it was a disaster waiting to happen. My parents were much the same so I made a conscious decision to raise my child and be part of her life, not a stranger shoving my child into the refrigerator. Now Sue is in a no win situation, if she stays quiet or if she speaks out she is criticized, I think she is using the book as a coping mechanism and just trying to live some semblance of a life. At this point, I would tell her to just live the rest of her life outside the public eye, there is nothing to be gained now. Sadly there are hundreds maybe thousands of more recent shootings that have taken place since this one to take away the public’s attention

[@JennyNobody]

I think this is a really balanced take on the issue. While the only blame lies on the shooters for the atrocities committed, that doesn't mean there wasn't some form of negligence on the part of the parents.

[@bradsanders6954]

Of course she isnt going to mention all that was going on at home with Dylan. She might have been better off staying quiet. She made herself a target which doesnt always go well with today's shoot em up society.

[@lakehairdontcare3398]

I think most parents are under qualified to raise children with deep seated woundings. My son spent many rounds of inpatient with suicidal thoughts and plans during his teenage years. He’s high on spectrum, and it took me many years to get him to understand he could fully trust me with his vulnerability. I truly believe it’s because of this time I meticulously spent with him on this he was able to feel safe in the world and although on disability, works a part time job in his 20’s and has worked through a lot of his trauma (we had a large criminal case against a man who broke into our home, he had to weaponize himself to stop the perpetrator from raping me when he was a pre-teen). I stopped working, I stayed at home to watch him, I was there for every single one of his breakdowns. I was lucky enough to be able to do this, some aren’t and have to work. Compassion is just the bottom line, many parents are in way over the head-I know I was. I did pay attention to every sign and listened intently to my gut. It’s hard as a mother to do this, if your energy is scattered many other places.

[@melistasy]

At the time this occurred, school shootings were not common. So, while I agree, there were many signs, shooting up a school is probably the last thing a parent would think was possible. Today, yes, but not back then.

[@Ken-fh4jc]

There is a lot of hindsight here. I’m the same age as those guys and you have to understand back then school shootings, especially of this magnitude, weren’t something on everyone’s mind like they are today. Just because he got into a little trouble and had some questionable report topics there’s no way anyone could have imagined he’s shoot up a school.

[@sandybeasley2286]

I think Sue was a brave Lady. I agree with all that you said. In the aftermath she was literally caught between a rock and a hard place and no matter what she said or did to start with most people hated her, but in my opinion she is a brave woman for trying to carry on and speak out my heart goes out to her and the parents of all that lost children and loved ones in that tragedy

[@liz8935]

I totally agree. She had guts to speak out. Would anything she had done made a difference? Not likely.

[@katemaloney4296]

She would've been better off keeping quiet and keeping a low profile. Nothing she says is going to help change the past or prevent a future tragedy.

[@sandybeasley2286]

@@katemaloney4296 I agree with you nothing she says can change it but maybe she has to do this to keep her sanity

[@Flufferz626]

​@@katemaloney4296her speaking out imo actually helps. It helps other parents to see warning signs of psychosis and most of all, brings awareness to mental health.

[@houseofsolomon2440]

G.I.L.F.

[@melissao9836]

We’ll done Dr Grande . You’re point of view is unbiased and compassionate to all at the same time .