Killer Urologist | Kathleen Hagen Case Analysis | Dangers of Psychosis

This video answers the question: Can I analyze the case of Kathleen Hagen?
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References:
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Yoon, J.-H., Kim, J.-H., Choi, S. S., Lyu, M. K., Kwon, J.-H., Jang, Y.-I., & Park, G.-T. (2012). Homicide and bipolar I disorder: A 22-year study. Forensic Science International, 217(1-3), 113-118. doi:10.1016/j.forsciint.2011.10.037
10.1016/j.forsciint.2011.10.037

[@astrinymris9953]

The lesson learned: You cannot raise a child to be successful if you spend decades telling them that they're going to be a failure.

[@LifesPeachy321]

Agree! If you don't think "Words Hurt"...this is a good example of it. Mental abuse is as damaging as physical.

[@SewardWriter]

​@@LifesPeachy321More so, often. Wounds heal more readily than minds.

[@kellimihalic116]

Id rather been hit than told some things from parents and partners .

[@glendasully]

I've never understood why parents denigrate their own children. Mine told me that I'd never amount to anything. My mother told me frequently to "Hurry up and get married and get out of the house". Of course, I married the first guy that asked me & divorced him 1 yr later. It's been a very difficult life. Children need to be loved, accepted, & encouraged.

[@kingcosworth2643]

They think they can motivate by utilising guilt, I know it all to well.

[@Scipio_Americanus]

Maybe you were just annoying and your mom was fed up looking at you.🤷

[@ajfoxw]

I was watching this at 3 AM. My husband already thinks watching true crime stories is bad for my brain. I've watched them and read them for 40 years and I rarely have nightmares and I've never acted out violently so I've convinced him it's okay. Then in the middle of this night I laughed out loud when Dr. Grande made comments about New Jersey (where we once had to live). My husband woke up and came in to see what was happening. When he saw I was laughing during a true crime murder story he started worrying again.

[@Haliotro]

He sounds a little dum

[@HammyGirl999]

Thanks for the story. 😂

[@evelynwaugh4053]

Now you'll find all the sharp objects hidden and have to eat with plastic utensils.

[@rhondasisco-cleveland2665]

😂

[@cUser691]

@aj Lol. Especially liked that you wrote “…NJ where we once HAD TO live.” 😉Greetings from Chicago

[@jasonmims5057]

Her father encourages her to become a doctor and when she does become a doctor, her father then tells her she won't be successful as a doctor.......and then her father is murdered........I just can't imagine why. 🙄😐

[@antoinetta70]

This story perhaps holds an important lesson. If family members or other people make you feel unhappy and worthless, rather move on and go no-contact with them. Work on yourself and succeed. Staying in contact with people who make you unhappy leads to substance abuse and depression, rather move on and talk to people who motivate you and make you feel valued and worthy.

[@MacSwan]

I was just thinking the same thing and wish I would have done that

[@girlwhomustnotbenamed4139]

Except that's not how childhood trauma works, especially when it's so methodically cruel. By the time someone is in the position to leave, it's easier said than done, especially when they were taught they are never going to be good for anything. The more important lesson is that child abusers should be stopped before they can inflict this kind of damage. Ofc it is important to learn you *can* go no contact but you can't put that entire burden on a victim while not even mentioning the criminal abuse her parents were committing. I have no iota of sympathy for her them. Murder is not acceptable but neither is the abuse they did, and that came first. Plus society doesn't even bat an eyelid about the latter, and unless that changes, lives will keep being destroyed (and no, I don't mean the parents').

[@mechelemede4579]

Her parents weren't "strict", they were abusive.

[@bluecollarlit]

I noticed that, too. Strict does not mean toxic or abusive. Strict is homework done before you can watch TV or hang out with your friends, and you may date when you're 16, and not before.

[@girlwhomustnotbenamed4139]

THIS!!!! 💯

[@lindanowak7893]

The parents may have been the narcissists, and produced narcissistic traits in the daughter, who had mental illness on top of it.

[@unctammy]

Yes, absolutely abusive!

[@Nirual]

Sometimes “strict” and abusive go hand in hand.

[@matthewlawrenson2734]

Brain chemistry issues can be the real horror film of life. Compassion to everyone involved

[@canileaveitblank1476]

Brain chemistry imbalance was just a marketing ploy to push pharmaceuticals. The chemical imbalance theory as a cause for anxiety and depressive disorders never was true. In fact, no experiment has ever shown that anyone has an ‘imbalance’ of any neurotransmitters or any other brain chemicals. The entire theory was hypothetical. Over the last ten years, independent research has continually shown the chemical imbalance theory to be false. Furthermore, independent research has shown medications used to ‘correct’ the imbalance were largely ineffective with many fairing no better than placebo.

[@joeadler5379]

Bipolar one disorder is absolutely horrible. I've suffered with it my whole life and I can attest it is terrible. I didn't know until a few years ago that there is doctors who have severe mental diseases such as bipolar and even schizophrenia. I found out my GP actually had schizophrenia years ago before he retired unfortunately there is a stereotype and a stigma around mental illness. People are always going to assume you are dangerous and shun you. Nobody wants to have anything to do with the insane.😵

[@sciencenotstigma9534]

@@joeadler5379It gave me hope to learn we can often succeed, with proper treatment. I’m studying in the mental health field now, and have worked in human services and education. I got a late start, but it’s never too late!

[@SewardWriter]

​@@joeadler5379My ex-wife is a doctor, and she has both bipolar i/ii, and some sort of personality disorder. I once had a massive allergic reaction that looked exactly like meningitis (head and neck were killing me), and she left me to flounder in bed for three days because she had to study. Finally, when I couldn't get up to pee, she rolled her eyes, schlepped me to the ER, and complained the whole time until I told her to leave. So glad she's gone.

[@josron6088]

This just reminds me of how brutal mental health issues can be and cap all that off with a lifetime of psychological abuse from your parents.

[@jenanne31]

What a sad story. Her parents told her she could do nothing right, and finally she silenced those voices. Thank you for your compassionate and detailed analysis, Dr. Grande.

[@panhead55]

Or proved those voices right…

[@haleyw5677]

@@panhead55 no she did plenty of things right, she just also did a lot very wrong

[@solobano570]

Why was she mixing meds and alcohol? She should have known better. Her parents might had been awful, but she had plenty of opportunity to get away from them and never see them again. I understand well that family attachments run deep and the childhood traumas never really heal, but most mature people come to terms with that. Something was very strange about her and possibly she might had been a very difficult child as well. It sounds like she has narcissistic personality disorder, which made her emotionally incompetent to deal with challenges in life, from people having opposing opinion to being more successful, or richer, or better looking… you name it. It’s incredible what chaos and destruction narcissist create around them. And then turn themselves into victims. She was capable to live away from her abusive family. Why didn’t she do that? Thus, I think she is responsible for murdering them. And should be held accountable. Our western society provides lots of comfort for murderers and the victims - oh - ha - where are they?!

[@lisaplaysherself]

@@panhead55 No, I don't think so. Though of course her actions were extreme and probably avoidable, there is no reason for a parent to set their children up for failure (by being overcritical and arrogant, picking on them) and then blame them when they fail. That's like someone complaining about a problem while helping to cause that very problem. If someone as a parent would rather see their child fail because it gives them the satisfaction of "being right" and saying, "I told you so," well, they're not doing a v good job at parenting, are they?

[@bluecollarlit]

I hear stories like this and I wonder why some of these horrible people have a child. Is it so they will have someone to torment?

[@estelle9414]

Her parents weren't just strict, they were cruel. Sounds like her father had narcissistic qualities. It also sounds like the best thing she could have done as a young woman was remove herself from her father's influence completely. It had a long-term, permanent and detrimental effect on her life. If she had personality pathology, it was pretty clear from your descriptions trauma was experienced in her early childhood as a result from at least one of her main cargivers, her father, that certainly could have caused it at least in part. I'm sure the excessive put downs, devaluing and cruel behavior of her father didn't just magically appear when she was older. I think you are right with both diagnoses. There can be a heritability factor for both disorders and an environmental one. It's a sad case, indeed. Love your content and sense of humor, Dr. Grande!

[@agnesg]

My parents are similar. I just don't talk to them anymore. Very, very tall walls around my well-being now. Some people just don't deserve a stake in your life.

[@bluecollarlit]

If I could click Like on this comment a million times...

[@susanepp2707]

I went to New Jersey once. I asked the young clerk at a store if they had picture postcards. She said to me, " Of vwhat?". I said," New Jersey". The girk burst out laughing and told me they don't make picture postcards of New Jersey. After a few days there i realized why she had that reaction.

[@SewardWriter]

If you look hard enough in Cleveland, you can find postcards of Cuyahoga River on fire. They all say, "Visit Beautiful Cleveland".

[@laynecurry7960]

She was certainly bright. Her dad was pretty toxic and it affected every facet of her life. Dr Grande, your New Jersey shade never disappoints.

[@ninachkah13]

Hahaha I just commented the same thing! Lol. I love in Jersey and it's an amazing state with everything you could want. .. BUT I do love some NJ shade 😎

[@noahhyde8769]

'And in the latest news, an F-5 tornado swept through New Jersey this evening, causing millions of dollars in improvements...'

[@73richg]

With a taste of your lips, I'm on a ride. You're toxic, I'm slippin' under.

[@philippamarsh8185]

Sounds like her folks had it coming. 😬

[@shameronstar7220]

She basically became just like him. How sad when we can't break pathology.

[@amberhansen3806]

The analysis is spot on. I have bipolar disorder and have had episodes since I was 13. I was incredibly manic most of the time and violent. I become addicted to drugs and alcohol. I truly believe had I not recieved a diagnosis and got sober, I would have killed someone. I used weapons during my rages frequently. Ironically I worked in the mental health field for years and didn't even know I was destined to be a client. I feel for this lady. Having no trust in a life one builds up due to this disorder is a shitty hand to be dealt

[@raquellofstedt9713]

It would shock you to know how many of us in the health fields are bipolar. It´s a high stress field that requires bursts (weeks) of long periods without sleep and high activity. aslong as the swing don´t get up into high mania, they manage, but not always well.

[@h0rriphic]

Lol rt I think a good majority of people working in mental health could use a little more self-reflection and honesty when it comes to their mental fitness;)

[@seymourclearly]

@@h0rriphic they could probably do with a nice holiday as well

[@de1018]

@h0rriphic Psychiatrists have one of the highest rates of suicide compared to other occupations. I have often just seen it listed as "medical doctors" in most modern stats, so perhaps the other MD fields have seen their numbers increase.

[@rhondasisco-cleveland2665]

A deficiency in one of the B vitamins was shown to be a cause of rage. (British study). There is an interesting little documentary on KZbin about it.

[@tammyhoward2811]

Sad for her. The support system she needed all her life was never there. They belittled her through out her lifetime. RIP Kathleen.

[@sharonhoyt2133]

Always better to just move away from negative parents and lead your own life ASAP.

[@kittenburger_prime]

I struggled through life with doctors acting like my problems were superficial while being type a and working as hard as I could. Top grades, prestigious career. Barely keeping my head above water. I got a real diagnosis of autism (from UPenn) after 41 years being treated like someone with minor issues. I couldn’t comprehend that I was different, just too mentally weak and I needed to try harder. (Narcissist and cruel parents, catholic school). When I asked for help doctors acted like I was being a Karen and told me I was exaggerating, discouraging me from asking for help any more. Most recently I tried to work with someone, they treated me like I had a minor condition and gave me something that destabilized my mood, then escalated with me about my manners while I was having an uncontrollable experience of flooding emotions. That was three weeks ago, I have had my personality and world turned upside down, unable to think, concentrate, eat, sleep. Flashing back to different times in my life. I think I have minor serotonin syndrome. The doctor office (a larger organization) has shown no concern, and calling them just makes my condition worse. So that’s why a patient doesn’t ask for help or get appropriate treatment when they do. Sitting around suppressing emotions just trying to get through can make you lose all perspective. You might get a glimpse of perspective but then lose it. Building a life feels pointless when it gets knocked over so easily over and over. Behaviors change because of your frustration at losing your life over and over. Then professionals show they don’t care and make cruel remarks. I worked with the system for 17 years, my condition worsened and worsened for 17 years and my doctors and therapist sat there and watched me rot for 17 years, and today I get the same treatment as someone who just walked in off the street for the first time. And arrogant doctors come in and try to use their cookie cutter solutions, actively trying to undo the work of past doctors who knew me and worked with me for years.

[@toddritter5638]

Family can often be the absolute worst source of support.

[@Hekeepblessingme]

Her parents were horrifically abusive and it’s no wonder she had a psychotic break. Based off of her experiences, it makes me extremely heartbroken to hear about it. It sounds a lot like my upbringing. My mental health has always been terrible, but I’m very happy that it didn’t deteriorate further. I obviously don’t condone murder, but is it any wonderas to how her mental health suffered so greatly? The fact that she was indeed successful in a medical career, yet it still wasn’t good enough for her narcissistic father. I honestly feel for her.

[@dalepointer9414]

People used to believe doctors were this side of God-like. They were different, aloof and their word was gold ( the doctor said so ). Doctors were the TV stars, the Marcus Welbys, without any personal problems, handsome, brilliant and self-assured. The human factor was never associated with traditional physicians except for their bed side manner. Doctors are human with all the conditions like all of us.

[@nhmooytis7058]

After working with them for 9 years calling them human is being kind. Most are arrogant ignorant arsehats.

[@kina18]

My neighbor's son is doctor. He has the personality of a stone. I've never met a more stuckup, obnoxious person than him.

[@dalepointer9414]

@@kina18 True. The human factor, regardless of occupation. Rudeness and arrogance is most evident in self-absorbed indivuduals. Respect and understanding never applied to them.

[@Stalemarshmallow]

This is so sad. Especially when bipolar disorder turns into delusions that cause harm against others.

[@preyanuchpromhong3777]

She became a Doctor and that still wasn't good enough? Terrible parents to the poor woman. I lost a friend to bi polar a few years back. Hard working and productive when he was ok.. Sadly, a muzzle blast got him when he was down. Thanks for the presentation and analysis

[@annedenman3312]

Muzzle blast, what is that?

[@poochiekitty8062]

@@annedenman3312 Seriously???????

[@elleblue07]

@ Poochie Kitty - Oi! Not everyone speaks in riddles! And not all of us use casual gun terminology in our conversations. If it was a gun, then damn well say so. Sheesh.

[@anarki777]

@@elleblue07 That's hardly a riddle. Just have an IQ in the 3 digits bruh.

[@smrtrthnu1571]

@@anarki777 if your denying that was an extremely unusual and somewhat ambiguous way to state that her friend shot himself then your either trolling or an A-hole who likes to be contrary. The use of the term bruh leads me towards the A-hole conclusion

[@robertbluestein7800]

When I was in college-we were offered a chance to interview Ronald Clark OBrien. He was on death row after poisoning his kid and a neighbors kid with Cyanide in pixie sticks. He did this to get $50k. He was talkative but it struck me how arrogant and in denial. He was also entitled - but claimed to be saved. The mind of a killer seems to begin with entitlement and denial of responsibility. I’d like to hear your tske on his case!

[@Lyndell239]

What'd he say?

[@kweefypete]

Eloquently putt. I, too, would like to hear Dr.Grandés' opinion on this case

[@dalepointer9414]

This is common with killers in prison, claiming they are "saved" and have been washed of their murderous sins, and will be accepted in the arms' of the Lord without any punishment. Son of Sam is one. He preaches in prison. I once asked a preacher about the people Son of Sam killed and if they would go to heaven? He replied, only if they were saved. Son of Sam was saved about ten years after the murders, l said. Then he will go to heaven. And the victims who weren't saved? He replied, sadly, but they'll go to hell. They should have been prepared. Too damn bad these murderers never found Christ before becoming killers.

[@robertbluestein7800]

@@Lyndell239 he said he was “framed” by his wife who he accused of having an affair. This was never proven. He was in serious debt and he believed if his wife died that he would be accused since he was often violent with her. He taught his son how to fly a kite six days before he killed him. He had a lot of pictures taken of them which he expected would exonerate him. The other boy was unintended as he was offered the other half of the pixie stick. In Houston, this story ruined Halloween. Copycat sickos put razor blades in candy bars prompting the police to XRay candy. The man showed no concern for the loss of his son and believed the insurance company still owed him $50k for the policy he took out on his sons life just weeks before. Some of my facts are from memory, so details might be unclear - but the fact remains Ronald Clark OBrien was put to death a lot more humanely than his ten year old son. It really shook the city at the time. No one seems to have been sorry he was executed.

[@sinetteiversen9978]

The disgraced twice impeached,insurrectionist in chief,Putin puppet traitor comes to mind.He would not hesitate one minute to burn down the whole world if he could save himself by doing that

[@kirschrot77]

I feel compassion for Kathleen, she tried very hard to be the dutyful and perfect daughter, but her parents were never appreciative of her. It is not right though to kill them, but just keeping away from their toxic influences.

[@powderandpaint14]

Sometimes it's only possibly to be free from a parent's toxic influence when they die. Not that that's an excuse to kill them, but it can be the truth. Obviously her mental illness pushed her to take action that most people wouldn't.

[@MelanCholy2001]

She shouldn't kill people BUT! (Everything after the "but" is what you really wanted to say.) Screw her: she was sponging off her parents in their old age and killed them, left them to rot, and she gets an insanity plea? At some point you stop blaming the parents and accept she was demonic.

[@puketinmoarliek994]

@@MelanCholy2001 yeah but her parents ruined her self esteem from a young age and because of her failures in life continued to do so. Bad family members can absolutely factor into psychosis.

[@puketinmoarliek994]

@@MelanCholy2001 she was independent for a number of years yet they were still cold and demanding.

[@bluecollarlit]

Yes, she could have had great gigantic successes in life and her parents would still be pick pick picking. She should have stayed away from them and set boundaries.

[@touche2584]

That brick background is a blast from the past :)

[@onceuponacity]

My daily dose from the Doctor! (No prescription needed folks.) Love your humour and analysis!

[@Catmom2004]

😄haha

[@Remo860]

I remember when the doc was only a disembodied head floating in space.

[@wojtekwitowski]

This case illustrates perfectly why we need much much better mental support. In this family there was a problem for generations. Father was toxic becouse of some sort of problems as well. Cases like this are very common. Not every one ends with tragedy like this one but every one equals a great deal of mental suffer.

[@helpyourcattodrive]

Thanks, Grande. This is such a unique, unusual story. I feel badly for the lady. She tried hard in life. Thanks for your analysis and overview. Life can be so unfair. Period.

[@smittykins]

Two words you never expect to see together “Killer Urologist.”

[@teejae2065]

You must have never been to the urologist...

[@kingcosworth2643]

I've got a father who thinks I'm a failure, it's not nice but I've never felt like killing anyone.

[@marissasimas9258]

This is a case where I’d love to see how her life would have been different with different parents.

[@cjj7107]

They were the cause and the key

[@erinthesystem9608]

OC: I know the feeling 😑

[@sylversyrfer6894]

Thank you particularly for the statistics regarding bipolar disorder, and the intersection of this mental health condition and criminal activity. Fascinating.

[@_knife.prty_]

Sick n' bed with the flu love that this was uploaded 12am my time! Came in clutch Doc!

[@kweefypete]

Wow, I'm surprised that this story isn't more widely known- this is my first time hearing of it. Your content exceeds expectations as always, Dr.Grandé! 😽💜

[@catherineberry6971]

Poor woman. So sad what parents do to their children.

[@Newwave12]

This woman became a physician and her parents still wasn't pleased, wow that's insane

[@kingcosworth2643]

No doubt it was because she didn't step each and every step they expected on the way there. Some people are just impossible to please.

[@betsyevers4363]

My Dad and sister both had bipolar and it was and still is hell to live with! Dad was sure the fbi and cia were watching him always and he’d flip off every air plane , ups, and Fed ex van that was near. He was sure every cop was watching him. My sister was going to have Jesus’s baby. It has really nuts my whole life and there’s not enough help out there for people who have to live with mental illness in their homes. People have no idea the hell that some people go through

[@barbarastrayhorn4667]

I agree. Our family tree is pretty bent and gnarly; suicides, alcohol, bipolar, narcissism. Holidays were interesting. Sorry your life has been such a Dantes Inferno.

[@beth7437]

Living with bipolar is hell. For me it was like being in a black hole and hoping to crawl out. It darkens your whole life. I can't imagine the hell it must be having it.

[@sciencenotstigma9534]

I wish they would get proper treatment, for everyone’s sake. I have bipolar disorder, and I only had episodes like that when it was untreated. 😢

[@brianmorger2174]

I came for the story and found " New Jersey ", which always makes my day.

[@velvetbees]

Her life was so compromised by cruel parents, it was a given she would have struggles.

[@heatherbukowski2102]

such character consistency with Dr. Grande's hatred of New Jersey

[@NCAdventuress]

Born in NYC... raised in North Jersey (Morris County) and then spent 22 years in Delaware. I'll take NJ any day over Delaware which is a very strange state. It's too small to have commercial TV stations, a medical school, an international airport, professional sports teams and many other institutions. New Castle County should be given to PA and the lower two counties to Maryland! Delaware could fall off into the ocean and the rest of the country wouldn't know it, haha!

[@javelin60]

WOW! This is one messed up story. I listened to it with growing disbelief. Gobsmacked. People like her father should not ever ever have kids. She really had no chance.

[@annedenman3312]

The parents were saddists

[@justus4685]

The Dr. Is IN! ❤️ me some late-night Dr. Grande!

[@sharondavis258]

I had a sister in law that was bipolar and a narcissist. She came after my brother with a knife, was abusive to him and to the children. I simply have no patience for anyone that uses their bipolar disorder as an excuse to torment those around them. My brother died early with a heart attack. His life was made miserable. The amount of heartache an misery she caused was devastating. That woman should have been locked up.

[@lyndylulu2]

Thank you for the perspective, and also for the deadpan delivery of humor that has me giggling out loud.

[@thelocalmaladroit8873]

I have a family member diagnosed with bipolar so this was extra helpful trying to understand her behavior. Your statistics regarding the disorder are excellent. Thanks for the late night video, always enjoy the NJ humor. Take care, Doc.

[@sarawolfe]

Thank you for covering bipolar psychosis. I have bipolar with psychosis and didn't understand how it works, now I can explain it to my mother.

[@harlowblackadder356]

I am just a regular person with a narcissistic mother. That being said, she would have been thrilled if I became a successful doctor or academic. I still wouldn't have been "perfect", but she would have taken the opportunity to show off to relatives. I dont understand how her father, a doctor, was not satisfied with her becoming a successful doctor and professor?

[@laurabaker8832]

I would like to have heard the parent's side of the story. I have a daughter who has been diagnosed with bi-polar disorder. She is now an adult and thankfully does not live with us. She has physically attacked both her father and me and also threatened to burn our house down. Kathleen's description of her parents is her perspective of their behavior. In reality, they may not have been as horrible as depicted.

[@sighthoundlady15]

Yes exactly, I wondered where these claims of parental abuse came from. I’ve known people with bipolar before too, and they always blame those closest to them. No amount of love, support and help seems to be adequate in their eyes. So sorry about your daughter.

[@carriemindplsable]

You raise a good point. One thing that caught my eye about this case is that the "cruel" parents took her in when she was ill and obviously difficult to deal with and they took her in and let her stay for free. So it is possible they were not the monsters she said they were.

[@patriciaarodriguez6641]

Thanks for the insight into the link between delusions and the afflicted person’s fears. I once read the memoir of someone whose wife had bipolar and he described her religious delusions during episodes and she had been raised Catholic (in Italy). I thought it strange at the time but now makes perfect sense.

[@m.f.richardson1602]

Such a sad story about Kathleen. I grew up in the same kind of family. Love the humor that makes listening worthwhile. Thank you Peace 💕🇺🇲

[@alyssaheller7860]

I have bipolar disorder and I have narc traits. I don't get violent, but my issue with anger is I have trouble expressing anger to others. I always direct it inwards. Fortunately, now, (and it has taken years) I have found a really good therapist and the right anti depressant and the right mood stabilizer and thw right meds to handle other issues when I need them (like for anxiety or insomnia and migraines, etc). The meds AND the therapy have truly made all the difference. I have not self injured in years. I am grieving for my father and other significant losses. I am processing and dealing with truamas I experienced and PTSD. I am back in college and will be going to law school in a year and a half. I am learning healthy and more effective coping strategies and how to identify when I should allow myself to feel difficult feelings and like talk about them or journal and when I should NOT do that and distract myself or ground myself. Findkng out a lot of my school struggles were not just because of my mood disorder but that i have dyslexia and dyscalculia. Etc and so much more. But NONE of this would be possible, I would not functional if it wasn't for outside help. I wouldn't have been able to even advocate or seek help if those close (physically close. That may or may not be family for some people) to me had not stepped in. I wouldn't even have had the MONEY to have therapy. And even if medi-cal pays for medication, the therapy they provide is NOT enough. And they send you far from where you live. And a bunch of other issues. At one point, my fam pushed me to try and get a therapist on medi-cal and not only did they send me super far from home, but I could only see them once a month at most. And with certain mental health issues, drugs alone arent enough. A person has to have talk therapy AND meds. Some people can do well with just talk therapy, but some, like bipolar, you HAVE to have both. Anyway, finally my family paid for me to get private insurance. And what I want to emphasize is that, without the talk therapy (with a good therapist) AND the right meds, I wouldn't be functioning. I wouldn't be healing from past truama. I would not have been able to advocate or seek professional help if someone else hadn't stepped in to advocate for me me and physically do the steps for me to get professional help. I couldn't have done any of that by myself. And honestly, I probably wouldn't be here today if that didn't happen. If someone else didn't care enough to fight FOR me when I could not fight for myself. If I didn't do something careless (in a passive way to hurt myself because I just didn't care if I dropped dead at that moment and my life was over) I would have killed myself years ago. When it comes to mental health, it is the mind that is sick. And it is treatable (if not curable). But the sick mind may not see it is sick, or it may know but can't ask for help or do all the beurocratic BS to get help. A person with a sick mind NEEDS others to step in for them. And as a society, we owe it to each other to help each other. It iant about consequences or punishment when someone does something wrong or hurts others. It isx about compassion and unrealistic and unreasonable expectations for people who have unwell minds. We shouldn't just ignore people or throw them away. Humans are capable of anything. And humans can cause profound damage to each other but humans are ALSO capable of profound compassion and selflessness. No one is all good or all bad. And truama can so mess up someone's mind. Illness can mess up someone's mind. And sometimes mental illness is a mind that is TRAPPED in a truama. And they hurt others, like the were hurt because their mind is stuck in the truama and repeating it in an attempt to understand HOW and WHY it happened to them and no one helped them or protected them when they needed it most. There is no "evil" and "monsters". Belief in them is wholly unnecessary. Humans alone are capable of the darkest deeds. Or hurting others. And usually because something prevented them from developing in a healthy a way. Developing how a sentient being is supposed to develop. something physical or chemically happened in or to the brain itself. Something altered the healthy development or altered the existing structure or system. Professional mental health experts are required to help someone struggling with mental health illnesses or disorders or issues. But love and support from those around the individual is also required. As individuals and as a society we need to help each other. Reach out to each other.

[@sandamalirajapakse5648]

Thank you very much for sharing 💐💕

[@tlindsay1007]

This is very insightful and well written. I commend you for getting the help you needed and that you stuck with it all of this time. My sister was bipolar in a place and time when it was not well understood, and she wasn't diagnosed until she was in her 30s. By then, she was hearing voices and unable to hold a job, even though she had been hired by IBM right out of high school, because she had learned drafting at vo-tech and was excellent. Later, she got a job selling at MCI and won several very nice awards. But, she wasn't getting any treatment for BP, and she was getting worse. She had a good family and people who loved her., But we didn't know what was wrong. She didn't have addictions, but did smoke pot trying to self medicate. My point on that is that Bi-polar is genetic. People with severe BP have mood swings that they can't control, and which control them. If untreated, they quickly lose friends and get worse over time. My sister didn't survive the disease. But my constant hope it that with all the DNA research that the gene(s) responsible will be able to be detected and avoided, in the near future. In the meantime, I totally agree that there is good therapy and medications that can help a person live a good life.

[@btetschner]

That is a real head-spinning case. It sounded like there was no winning with her parents, especially her father. I imagine that she thought she accomplished all those things for nothing. It is unfortunate when people become isolated like that, there is always the potential they will become their worst enemy.

[@wendiwonderly1419]

Kathleen had a chemical imbalance that was probably born with. The damage might have been lessened if she had the insight to leave a toxic relationship, even if it was with her own parents. The Bible tells us to honor our father and mother and to go the extra mile and turn the other cheek. It also tells that we are to turn and walk away and shake the dust from our shoes if we have made every effort and someone still rejects us. It doesn’t tell us to react with hate but we’re not required to stay and act as emotional punching bags. That doesn’t honor anyone or do anyone good. Sometimes we just have to walk away no matter how much it hurts

[@allistairmitchell3845]

Another fascinating case, Doctor…(thank you for the warning about NJ 😂!) I’ve got the psychological trifecta from hell myself - bipolar, borderline and CPTSD. It’s a handful to stabilize but mercifully I do well on meds. It must be terribly distressing to develop psychosis on top of everything else - like having your brain in a cuisinart. Poor woman never seemed to have a chance with parents like hers. Undermining her self-esteem as they did might have felt “warm and fuzzy” to mom and dad while they were doing it but it proved to be deadly to them.

[@wendybond2848]

What a sad life. Her parents were not held accountable in life for their abuse.

[@kevinhornbuckle]

Except for that death sentence.

[@murphychurch8251]

Well, eventually it came back to them. My sympathy for the murder victims in this case is not as great as in other cases, I must admit.

[@jeanetteshawredden5643]

Wendy Bond - Narcissists rarely are. They lie, trick and fool others - they are award winning actors - most of their evil abuse is done behind closed doors & in secret.

[@carnifaxx]

I think I'm starting to have anger issues, too, just hearing about her father and his behaviour towards her :(

[@NotChefCook]

SAME ! My diagnosis is Sadistic Douchebag Who Should have been Run Over By a Truck .

[@Marshmallow_Trees]

She gave them sedatives, then waited. That sounds like she was maybe thinking ahead to her next actions.

[@barbarapaige4587]

Thank you for your excellent analysis and review of this case. I appreciate the discussion of psychosis and bipolar disorder and how it possibly played out in this woman's life. The comment from Ray R was very revealing too. She was dependent on her parents, but also resented them. She is a very tragic person.

[@whittenaw]

Anger problems can be so hard to control and deal with and that's while knowing that you have a problem and are willing to deal with it. When someone is in denial or somehow doesn't realize they have an issue, it gets out of control real fast

[@ayseguldemirbas60]

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@lisbethbird8268]

That denial as you call it is very often an actual symptom of psychosis and other conditions (mania, schizophrenia, dementia) called anosognosia (inability to know). It's more or less understood now to have neurological causes. You're absolutely correct; this exacerbates an already difficult problem.

[@MsNooneinparticular]

Untreated bipolar I is so dangerous. There are many positives but the bad is BAD. Patients tend to only think they need medication in depressive episodes, not realizing that mania and hypomania are just as problematic because they can feel good (better than good in some cases). Add recreational drugs or acute stress to the mix and it's gasoline on a raging fire. Meds and therapy need to be a lifelong consistent thing for all bipolar patients. If that's not sufficient, check yourself in for inpatient treatment. There's no shame in it. Don't give in to the paranoia & delusions of persecution. It's your illness talking. (I say this as someone who's had a front row seat to acute psychotic breaks with multiple bipolar family members who ended up hospitalized after violent suicide attempts. It's hard for loved ones too).

[@lnc-to4ku]

What a sad case! It was both fascinating and shocking to learn just how horrible and dark bipolar can be! The work you do is incredible, Dr. Grande! ♡♡

[@helpyourcattodrive]

My mother treated me poorly. I left home at eighteen planning to never return which I pretty much haven’t. She died a long time ago now. I’m much older now. This makes me glad about my choice. This lady’s dad kind of deserved it, sounds like. Stay away from mistreating, rude people, people.

[@panhead55]

A lot of parents say terrible things. Her father may have or have not deserved something. The fact is, she took someone’s life.

[@elleblue07]

@Help your cat to drive. - agree. Sounds like her parents got what they deserved.

[@_HimToo]

​@@panhead55Yeah, they watched the video just like u did so I'm sure they're aware that she took someone's life (2 lives actually).... and those people had essentially taken her life as well!

[@jenniferb9506]

Yeah, my Mom used to call me worthless and she wished I was a boy. Well, I’m not a boy, but feeling like I was worthless lead me to make a lot of horrible decisions in my 20s bc I hated myself. Therapy, and A LOT of work later, I’m sober, periodically happy, and I’m a professional caregiver. Few would say I’m worthless. Some can’t make it through the day without me. Mom is dead. Who’s worthless now Mom!? That’s a dark joke.

[@Nylak-Otter]

Haha, well, I laughed. 😂 My mother used to tell me she should have aborted me when she had a chance (I was the mistake between her and her boss that ended up with them getting married). The judgment and treatment fit that tone. Now, my mother is also dead. Who's still alive? Me, that's who! 😂 But seriously, my mother had borderline personality disorder, and she did try sometimes. I only blame her for like 98% of my childhood trauma. It also led me to work in an altruistic career (my sister was a psychiatrist who specialized in helping badly abused children and giving therapy to the police who had to deal with getting them out of those situations, and I ended up working as a behaviorist in the dark side of animal welfare and rehabilitating the worst cases). Funny how that works out.

[@camuscat123]

Well, we will never know. Do hallucinations and delusions need to be impersonal to plead insanity? I think one could argue either way. Clearly, the attorneys argued their case more effectively. Very complicated considering narcissism is also a part of Bipolar disorder. An interesting matrix of issues that contributed to this tragedy. Thank you. This was one of the most interesting cases I’ve heard.

[@bensempek]

Dr Grande always spot on. I wonder if you could explain why some folks speak in tongues. It is intriguing and would make for an interesting discussion....a regular discussion about people speaking in tongues....there would be a ton of tongue and cheek humor at our disposal. Thank you for your channel!

[@nhmooytis7058]

Demonic possession.

[@evelynwaugh4053]

Mass hysteria.

[@ErebosGR]

From what research I have found, it seems that glossolalia is not a medical condition (nor a divine gift) but learned, performative behavior.

[@bensempek]

@@ErebosGR thanks for researching it. I this particular behavior pretty incredible.

[@lo2740]

neurologic issue, the brain is a very complex system with a multitude of interconnected area, when some connections are wrong or some area are disfunctional it can lead to a variety of very strange disorders, speakign in tongue, foreign accent syndrom and many much much mstranger.

[@_HimToo]

"Why wouldn't she just pick someone at random [to kill]?" Did she ever even leave the basent at that point? You'd have to interact with, or at least see, other people in order to pick one of em

[@tjcole6249]

wow your work ethic is beyond incredible!!

[@clah399]

So sad that her parents weren't understanding and affirming. Had they have been she would have been so much better and theirs effective medication for bipolar these day. A lesson to be learnt, always work towards encouraging and understanding your children because sometimes your all theve got.

[@nightwood4379]

Good Morning Dr. Grande, Up all night in Chi-Town. Greatly enthused for this post…thank you.

[@edwardinzerillo1017]

Hi, Dr. Grande. Huge fan. Can you please analyze the case of Canadian politician Louis Riel? His story would be an incredibly fascinating one.

[@soilmanted]

Music arouses strong emotions in me. My hallucinations take the form of musicians "appearing" in my kitchen, my living room, or my bedroom, and performing for me. I do not see them, I only hear their music. I hear what they are "saying" with their music. Sometimes I hear only them; other times I add to their music with my own collection of instruments and my inner voice and sometimes my "outer" voice, together we create an ensemble performance. The hallucinated musicians do not "tell me to do something." And if they did, I would not feel any greater obligation to do what they tell me to do than I would feel in regard to something that a real person told me to do. Rather, they do - if I choose to listen - what I call "adjusting my feelings." They adjust my feelings. Because I hear music that isn't actually there you could say I have hallucinations and am schizophrenic, but if you did that this label is a pejorative _ascription_ and not an objective _description._

[@adotintheshark4848]

Having a friend who's manic-depressive, you're spot on. You can really tell when he's not taking his meds.

[@wendybaryl6867]

I find your analysis of this topic to be extremely informative!! so very interesting to listen to you talk ❤️thank you for sharing your time

[@oxcart4172]

I don't know where she got her confidence from with parents like that

[@bellyfulochelly4222]

Narcissism. It's not real confidence, just the illusion of confidence.

[@bettinabarry8423]

What a tragedy! I have heard of Bipolar --- didn't realize it is also Manic-depressive. Many years ago, my sister was considered a Manic-depressive ---- she would have high times followed by lows. I know she has had many difficulties but nothing where she has harmed another. Thank you, Dr. Grande, for the analysis ---- gives me a better understanding of the difficulties of the Bipolar/Manic-depressive condition and how this tragic case unfolded.

[@Ray-nh1un]

As someone from New Jersey, far be it for me to defend the state, but damn, I have been in states far worse than Jersey.

[@jamesparlane9289]

Dr. Grande has unresolved issues with New Jersey?

[@jamesparlane9289]

Is he high on openness to experience there or just high on neuroticism?

[@genesis631]

People just don't get that psychosis isn't that random. It's like having a series of dreams and nightmares. You don't necessarily forget to to drive or do normal stuff. You just walk the line between reality and the rules of the world building your brain created. I don't have bipolar disorder but schizo affective disorder. Knowing the difference between right and wrong doesn't matter if your brain dropped you in a different world where the stakes are completely abnormal. You're absolutely right about being drawn towards where your strong feelings are.

[@Okbroski]

Grew up driving down the street the murders took place on every day multiple times and never even knew it happened my entire life. Then again Chatham New Jersey is one of the nicest towns in the USA. It really was a dream growing up there.

[@Okbroski]

She did these murders on fairmount ave. One of the main streets of my town.

[@HIMMBelljuvo]

Her father was such an asshole for no damn reason. What a tragedy

[@gilliandawson6567]

Its frightening what mental abuse of children results in. How do we heal these children?

[@dianestanislowski3982]

Parents need to take responsibility, apologize, and develop empathy for their hurt children before it is too late. I wonder how much that would make a difference for these poor children. :(

[@billhildebrand5053]

Comment 197. It is good to see the pink quilt against the background of your old office. This is indeed a way of pleasantness. (Proverbs 3:17-18. “Her ways are *ways of pleasantness, *And all her paths are peace. She is a tree of life to those who take hold of her, And happy are all who retain her.”

[@lisakain1517]

It sounds like she was experiencing schizophrenia as well. My son has schizophrenia and he often believes people in videos are giving him direct messages and instructions. It's so sad

[@Knowledge_wisdomwins]

Maybe. But it could simply be Major Depression with Psychotic features. MDD has a clinical DX axis of psychosis that involves hallucinations, hearing/seeing things. I used to think all hallucinations/hearing/seeing things was definitely on the Schizophrenic spectrum until I learned that Major Depression Disorder has an axis of MDD w/psychosis (DSM is clear that it’s separate from a Schizophrenic diagnosis)

[@maryannerajoppi1509]

New Jersey is really beautiful. It's not worse than hell. What you see you when you fly into Newark it's not a reflection of the rest of the state.

[@bigdeneen]

I’m from Newark , and I agree.

[@mackenziemoore7503]

It's so tragic having a parent that is never proud of you no matter what you accomplish. My dad was like this but unlike Kathy's situation my mother was the opposite and always made me feel loved and supported. I feel sorry for Kathy, she deserved better parents.

[@mrooz9065]

A very psychodynamic analysis. Thanks Doc.

[@73richg]

I was wondering when the NJ joke was going to show up

[@lks6248]

It is so refreshing for murderous intent to be directed at the lousy parents. Most often complete strangers fall victim to killers who have been created through their terrible upbringings.

[@girlwhomustnotbenamed4139]

THIS! I wish we had a system where malignant narcissists like her father, who objectively cause enormous destruction in our societies, were stopped and prosecuted before they can inflict more pain, and consequently before something like this happens. It is not a "justice" system if it condemns what Kathleen did but does jack about people like her father while it could and should. At least Kathleen didn't go after innocent people, she directed her (justified) anger towards those who destroyed and continued to torture her.

[@philipwurm5121]

Dr. Grande …. Love your vids…. Not sure what happened to you in NJ and I can only speculate on the situation. Many who travel here from other areas look out the window of the plane coming into Newark International and say ( what a shithole ) And if you just take a car to a local hotel for a work conference and get back on the plane this might be a fair analysis. Living here my whole life I’ve been all around including tropical islands but in the end there’s no place like home. All in all Jersey isn’t too bad except for traffic and property taxes. We’ve got the ocean, Farmlands, woods , ski slopes and whatever else you would want.. and I’m just 20 minutes from Manhattan… All said and done it’s not so bad after all………

[@lindseyhudson1274]

Interesting one! Could you do Jani Schofield? She’s the little girl with schizophrenia who was on the Oprah Show.

[@Silversolstice548]

Her parents are absolute nutters, I feel bad for her and her brother

[@helpyourcattodrive]

I find the correlations between that diagnosis and crime. That so many bipolar people are in jail. Hm. ❤Thanks, Grande.

[@jaybee9269]

Dr. Grande, please do Roger Reaves, the drug pilot who survived Barry Seal, from Made in America.

[@lashlarue59]

A pissed off urologist now thats dangerous.

[@btetschner]

Those shorts about narcissism are very interesting and helpful!

[@barbieblue3336]

This is so sad. What did she die of? Honestly, having to deal with men's reproductive organs, systems, men's egos, with awful parents, and LIVING IN NEW JERSEY would be upsetting to anyone

[@carlyrennae3963]

Yaaay ❤️ hello Dr G I am back safe from my bali adventures....thank you for your accompanying of me, you were a most agreeable travel buddy 🤣🤣🙏❤️✈️

[@panushjo]

thirsty

[@nhmooytis7058]

Worst danger in Bali is being barfed on by drunk Aussies. Next is getting Bali Belly. Third is getting bit by a cobra or green snake 😁

[@carlyrennae3963]

@@panushjo where is my 9am frozen breakfast margarita ??!! 🍹 🤣

[@carlyrennae3963]

@NHMO OYTIS well I am that drunk aussie but I don't spew on people 🤣 just dance and have fuuuuuuun ❤️

[@sheilagravely5621]

Hwy, this was released 1 hour ago and our brick wall is back! Yay!!!!!! Thank you Dr. Grande! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻😘❤❤ hey, dang keyboard.....

[@catwhisperer2736]

You have the most soothing voice.

[@kevinhornbuckle]

Tell that to New Jersey.

[@jessicablum4096]

It can make me ready for bed time...

[@PrecociousFriand]

Yet another example of people that shouldn't have children because they cannot raise kids with any sense of responsibility and care. There should be a compulsory psych test for procreation and no I am not taking that back. Just because you can does not mean your should.

[@ncascadehiker]

Gosh, Im sad for Kathleen. A series of defeats compounding one another, and parents who amplified her low sense of self worth. I didn’t know bipolar could cause a person to lose touch with reality.