Staircase Murder (Kathleen Peterson) | Was Michael Peterson Guilty? | Mental Health & Personality

[@arleneschu6626]

"That owl wasn't going down for the third strike." 😆 I'm dead.

[@MsSonali1980]

The owl got another victim. RIP dear.

[@marianakronemberger6843]

I was laughing so hard at this!! I'm a psychology graduate and I adore your points of view!!! I looove your humor!!! Thank you Dr Grande!!! Love from Brazil!!! ❤️❤️❤️

[@KathySong1]

Amazing!

[@eddiew2325]

KathysSong no offense Kathy but I just found out you’re human

[@fzn192]

@@marianakronemberger6843 0

[@mgal6234]

I wonder if the bird had an “owl”-iby? 😬

[@franmellor9843]

Hee hee

[@Ron4885]

:-)

[@MartinJohnZ]

If he doesn't he might have committed a TALONY!

[@elisamastromarino7123]

I wonder if he'd ever run a"fowl" of the law... 🤣😃😄 omg...it's out of control.

[@SCAScienceLab]

I detect fOWL play,.

[@DMR1010]

I hate it when I accidentally trip down the stairs and lashings of my blood splatters on the ceiling and all over the walls and I accidentally die.

[@tomfuller5585]

Me too. I've accidentally done that several times.

[@samanthapurdy2053]

@@tomfuller5585 always ruins my day

[@clairey6407]

Uch, it's the worst, isn't it? I'm always doing that.

[@user-vw7bx9ll8n]

lmaoo

[@dougfergusson]

But I have had blood splatter on the ceiling from a cut on my nose ..honestly ..so don't think that's strange ...

[@michaelkugler100]

Dr. Grande does an excellent job of dissecting each case he examines. He obtains adequate history, observing behaviors and provides a case analysis without assumptions or diagnostic information. As a psychologist, I look how he observes each case, almost like an investigation on his part. I’ve been practicing for 26 years and I love to gain knowledge from peers. This how we exceed in our field, learning from one another.

[@danjaruss2001]

The Staircase was Michael Peterson's idea to make. This fact often gets lost in the weeds. He commissioned a famous Documentary team to do it. He also had an affair with one of the editors while they were filming. He did this to control the narrative, leaving out and including information as they saw fit. For example, when luminol was used, there were footprints from her body to the Washer / dryer and back, that had been cleaned up before the paramedics arrived. Also, there was a third person, in addition to michael and his son, present at the house when the police / EMTs arrived. The BBC did a great, and comprehensive, dive into this case. It can be found in podcast form called "Beyond Reasonable Doubt?" that is incredibly interesting and sheds light on a myriad of inconsistencies between The Staircase and what actually happened. I definitely recommend it to anyone interested in this case.

[@evelynwaugh4053]

Thanks for info. A concise impartial version beats a 13 episode distortion any day.

[@tmeservey2723]

I canʻt believe some people still think he is innocent. Didnʻt she have a broken hyoid bone and petechial hemorrhages in her eyes--both signs of strangling? And as for microscopic owl feather pieces, there were pine needle pieces too but we know a pine tree didnʻt attack her.

[@BShor2t]

@@tmeservey2723 I'm still on the fence on the subject of guilt. I watched this a long time ago and don't remember what his son's alibi was and if it was airtight. I know that he had legal trouble as well as financial trouble and Kathleen refused to bail him out with another loan. This is where I get stuck with reasonable doubt.

[@leenycallahankhan6966]

@thievesarmy I believe she was saying concise impartial version in reference to the BBC documentary that was recommended not the comment itself.

[@QCDoggies]

Thank you!

[@christianchamp2002]

How you keep a straight face while obliterating a theory by means of a joke is the next level of shade we all should aspire to mirror

[@kaym.2854]

I think editing has a lot to do with it. If not, I need that kind of discipline. 🤣🤣

[@Raev222]

@@kaym.2854 This man has serious talent when it comes to being calm and collected lmao

[@kaym.2854]

@@Raev222 lolll

[@emilymathews6300]

🍵....

[@ashleasanderson9280]

Next level shade. Yes!!! 🤣

[@TheRealBamboonga]

"Evidently in medical school, she did not miss the class that covered...owl attacks..." Now that was a hoot...

[@rerite2]

LOL! 5 gold stars!

[@roseannes335]

Haha!

[@randyweaver9528]

Ah I see what you did there

[@tiffprendergast]

TheRealBamboonga that should have been in Harry Potter

[@garden5137]

His neighbor had a video of himself being attacked by an 🦉

[@lindabrennan4455]

I actually watched some random show where they highlighted cases where those types of owls attacked people for absolutely no reason. There were several examples, not staged, actual people filming these crazy owls attacking their husband or wife! It was very strange. It gave credence to a situation like that. It really shocked me because, like most people, I found that hypothesis ridiculous. Well, it really isnt.

[@ameliakater7357]

Everybody: is worried about these Asian Killer Hornets. Dr. Grande: hold my Owl.

[@iluvubb247]

Lol 😂

[@marciamathis3414]

Your remark was so cleverly witty, Amelia! Thank you for giving us such a great laugh in these tough times; bless your clever little heart!

[@ScottishLad66]

😂😂😂

[@DawnSuttonfabfour]

It was a random fly-by shooting. Towhit towhooo.

[@Raev222]

LMAOOOO

[@NeiZaMo]

Plot twist, Michael Peterson trained the owl to kill his wife.

[@gothgirlatheart3545]

Nei Za Mo LMAO

[@lorimiller4301]

That was my theory. He meets a Man he likes, sees the Owl near his house and puts two and two together.He puts some pheromones in her shampoo. Or maybe in a conditioner she puts on at night ?

[@stephaniecallahan5356]

🤣🤣

[@adrienneadetti1223]

lol

[@af398]

The owl was actually the "man" Michael had been talking to online. The owl became enraged when Michael refused to leave his wife to live with him in the forest, hooting by night and feasting off field mice and wild rabbits.

[@BrainsApplied]

I'm still surprised how you can post this many videos. You are one hard-working man!

[@cynthiaallen9225]

Everyone is quarantined, don't forget.

[@amicamio2435]

Cynthia Allen still impressive only thing I did during this time was getting fat and sleeping

[@jemimac6054]

Not everyone is productive in quarantine (what about those quarantined with a large amount of children?), and if they are, not necessarily in the usual ways! So yes, he is hard-working and committed to this channel regardless of quarantine.

[@cynthiaallen9225]

@@jemimac6054 okay. Have it your way. Lots of people are productive.

[@cynthiaallen9225]

@@amicamio2435 lol.

[@DerekCadzow]

I worked for Kathleen at Nortel for several years. I spent evenings with both she and Michael at their home and once attended a professional event (STC) in which we spent time in the back sitting room and kitchen, next to the stairwell in question. When considering the wounds on Kathleen's head, why is it that no one ever mentions or considers the potential effects of the chrome metal chair-lift mechanism in that stairwell? If you're looking for something that could cause severe head injuries from a fall in that stairwell (or multiple falls), look no further than the right-angle corner on the cast-metal chair-lift rail that stretched from the top of the stairs to the bottom and around the corner on the landing. One minor point: you stated that they were married in 1997 and then moved in to their Durham home. In fact, they had lived there for some time before their marriage.

[@donniB8]

yes! i keep wondering why it isnt mentioned anyhwere

[@skipper6528]

what do you think happened?

[@dangremillion]

The Owl feathers and pine needles in her hair tell all you need to know.

[@melaniec3819]

I’m sorry to tell you that you are right I bet they did dwell before actually marrying but I believe he did this. He is October 23rd Scorpio. Scott Peterson killed his pregnant wife and he is October 24th Scorpio. My father and whatever you want to call him is also both October Scorpios too. I’m February birth date like Michael Peterson’s deceased wife is February too. My uncle is October Scorpio too. Let’s just say I know he did this. I also watched the Netflix documentary as well. But have personal experience believe that! The closest people don’t SEE! They make sure.

[@DerekCadzow]

@@skipper6528 Thanks for the question. I'm not an armchair prosecutor or judge. I agree with another commentor who said that, in the end, only Kathleen knows for sure what happened. If he's guilty, then Michael knows also, but if not he's as much in the dark as we are. All I can say is that, having spent time with them together, I was shocked at the charges and I find it hard to believe. However I do believe that the chair lift rail had the potential to cause great damage to her head if she fell on it. In the end, all this armchair prognosticating just ignores the fact that we lost an intelligent leader and a kind and loving woman. She is dearly missed.

[@Yulia-that-bish]

I need a whole episode on the owl, please.

[@eddiew2325]

We need an owl to testify against Donald j Trump

[@suziegriffith]

Me too. This owl may have gotten away with murder!

[@notaclue822]

Ha ha was the owl a narcissist?

[@j0nnyism]

The owl showed high openness but was antisocial and quick to anger

[@garden5137]

@JL Jones 🦉🦉😂 I thought it was an owl. Why did she have feathers in her hand? Was the owl stressed & loosing his feathers?

[@allisonrogers1409]

After having watched the Netflix series, I will die happy if I never hear the term "blow poke" again. This is a terrific channel by the way!!

[@tracyfins]

If it ain’t the poke, he ain’t the bloke.

[@ashleewhittlesey7874]

@@tracyfins lol

[@aimipon]

🤣🤣🤣 same!!!!

[@collettedobrocke5585]

I've never heard that term in my hole life

[@MrCveedub]

I watched the first episode and didn't see any need to keep watching

[@78skj]

Having watched the Netflix documentary, I got the feeling that as an author, his motive was to be the main character in his next suspense thriller called The Staircase. No sane person could cope with the intrusion of a film crew in the midst of a traumatic event like this. It all seems a deliberate act right from the get go. Very disturbing.

[@smpotts173]

@Nolan Grady Oh, YES he's a psycho, Nolan! A BIG one! His indignation about Deaver! Deaver was the best thing that ever happened to Peterson! He'd still be in the slammer if it wasn't for him!

[@redsloane879]

I totally agree with you!!!!

[@redsloane879]

@Nolan Grady Absolutely!! And what an insult to all the brave wo/men who have been awarded that prestigious medal ... especially those who were awarded it posthumously. DISGUSTING!!!

[@nxvasage2597]

That sounds incredibly far fetched, youre saying he murder his wife in such an unusual manner which leaves behind little to evidence, went thru the prosecution trial and end up in prison just to be "the star" of his own novel. Thats sound ridiculous.

[@78skj]

@@nxvasage2597 all none-sociopaths can do is speculate about the motives of a narcissistic sociopath OBVIOUSLY! Apart from the crime itself, the most ridiculous and inhuman aspect of this whole case was the fact that it was made into a documentary. Zero respect for the victim and her loved ones!

[@bradr.8905]

I have another theory. She found his online porn and confronted him about it. He went up the stairs to avoid the confrontation she followed behind him. He flew into a rage because of her questioning him and pushed her down several stairs. The gravity plus the force of him pushing her could have caused the wounds without an actual fracture. He then realized what he did, regretted it and tried to give her aid which caused the blood on him. It's possible he had a moment of "road rage" or "stair rage".

[@evaredacted]

In the HBO series they depict this happening

[@folliesofmen2628]

That's what I think too - which explains why there are blood splatters on his pants that indicate his presence when she fell. And he did seem to have either tried to help or figure out what to do with her, which explains the delay in calling 911. Anyway he must be involved in some way.

[@Xcuvon]

Doubt it! Her son said her body was moved before the cops were called

[@acb5245]

Sounds plausable to me 👍

[@dorisflindt2907]

😠😠😠

[@LilyfromUruguay]

When I watched the documentary I came to the conclusion that he was guilty. I didn't believe anything he said. After listening to you, I guess we are on the same page.

[@donaldtaylor1037]

That's a safe bet!

[@Nazreen9997]

@El Jay he had two wives who died in the exact same way, found in same way🤔 that's enough for me to decide that his guilty.

[@Patriciameloc]

@El Jay i finished the show yesterday, the judge didn't say he believed his innocence, he said that it was enough for reasonable doubt. i don't think the DAs built a bullet proof case and that was what he said. Especially with the scientist bullshit. I totally believe he did it too

[@olgapanemorfopo4698]

@@Nazreen9997 the woman who died in Germany wasn't his wife. She was his neighbor and a friend to his wife

[@ED80s]

@@olgapanemorfopo4698 in Netflix documentary with Toni Collette they claimed it was his first wife who died at bottom of stairs.

[@Romanticoutlaw]

😂 your breakdown of the owl’s possible motives in your normal, analytical tone killed me. Bird law is important, man

[@wepeelwraps]

this man is a...hoot

[@criticRN]

Very tongue-in-beak 😉

[@nxvasage2597]

Bird law.. another Sunny in Philadelphia refreance, amazing how one way or another that show is always mentioned in Dr Grandes videos. I love it haha

[@alyciamarie4163]

@@nxvasage2597 hahah love it’s always sunny such a funny show

[@EddieMachetti]

They should have gotten Charlie Kelly on this case.

[@crazykittensmiles]

His kids seemed unnervingly blindly loyal to him. Like they refused to see the logic in it because they didn't want to lose them both. The Netflix documentary was peculiar and I absolutely didn't believe him.

[@MimiRAM0NE]

I remember being weirded out by the way the kids talked about Kathleen too, like an object that was just a problem for their saintly father and not even like a person they knew who died. Very weird.

[@user-vw7bx9ll8n]

agree. a couple of the kids have since expressed doubt at his innocence, but support him regardless.

[@ChazSmithProductions]

I'm guessing Liz Ratliff's two girls that he adopted after Liz "fell" to the bottom of the stairs and died, were Mike Peterson's real daughters. They should get DNA test done.

[@chrisnoble2084]

Yes good point which I also thought when I watched it. What I dont understand is how did those children of the first wife who died the same way still belive him after the second wife died the same way? Very odd but there you go

[@mrguy561]

@@MimiRAM0NE To be fair, the documentary was purposefully biased towards supporting Michael, so they could have left out/edited out the times they were emotional over her death.

[@stevewise1656]

The woman died and her life seemed to be lost within the documentary. I watched it and thought he was guilty, though the prosecution in a case like this or any case where flat out lies are told by the prosecution, should face prison time as well. Peterson loved being filmed and that disgusted me. It was all about him and not Kathleen.

[@TalentedLMT]

Just because someone is an unfaithful narcissist, doesn’t mean they’re murderer.

[@joeblow2069]

It was a French advocacy piece and not a real documentary. Nobody was advocating for her. He murdered 2 women but he is smart and writes books so leave him alone. Similar to the attitudes about roman Polanski who forced himself on a 13 year old girl.

[@sc666666]

Sleazy prosecution. Just like the Duke lacrosse and Kyle Rittenhouse. I’m surprised they didn’t take the blow poke and hide it somewhere.

[@laraking804]

@@TalentedLMT if you combine that with him being broke and that the house was hers, the insurance policy and that is previous ex died the exact same way - guilty as fuck.

[@lucindatwo9921]

@@laraking804 What I thought was weird, though, was that the woman who died in Germany wasn't his ex. She was his neighbor, and yet Michael Peterson and his wife Patty took in her girls after her death and raised them together until Michael took them with him to a whole other country when he and Patty divorced. I found that whole situation peculiar. What do you make of that? And the circumstances of her death were so similar to Kathleen's. There's no way that was just an unfortunate coincidence, in my opinion.

[@audreymereu]

“There is no joy in conducting bad science”. Yes!

[@veronicab1714]

Loved that line!

[@valerie1653]

That should go on a merch t-shirt!

[@MassEffectGER]

Unless you are getting paid for.

[@bobdpa]

Haha definitely a merch t-shirt. With a 😐 at the end.

[@qiuwbr091]

If you review the movie, “Dial M For Murder” you might understand how he could have pulled this crime off. There wasn’t a barn owl in the movie, but just manipulate the situation a bit and it works as a murder. (Sadistic haha)

[@haniahelsinki]

"There is no joy in conducting bad science." If I had to rewrite my Masters thesis, I'd use that quote on the front page lol

[@joshy45266]

I'm in graduate school now working on my thesis proposal for Quals. This comment really resonates with me.

[@sheilamacpherson4948]

better to let one hundred guilty owls go free than convict one guilty man.

[@Yikkoofficial]

The way the daughters continued to support their father is a trip. But, it shows how family love can strip down morality. They loved their dad and had cognitive dissonance.

[@user-sr1kc6jj2b-p1q]

Having been swooped by magpies often enough I can assure you that If she had been attacked by a bird the entire neighbourhood would have heard about it. Bird attacks are scary and make you scream a lot.

[@redsloane879]

And the birds are noisy too whilst attacking!!!

[@criticRN]

There would have been a lot more than trace feathers too..!

[@rosierosie62]

Magpies and crows are different though. I watched owls fly , rather more glide than fly, and they are silent. You dont even hear the feathers rustle. They fly in silence, they hunt in silence, like shadows.

[@heathercalk1089]

But they lived on a secluded property.

[@elisamastromarino7123]

Imagine being attacked by an owl. Wouldn't you be yelling and screaming? I mean, how creepy. Barred owls will attack if they have babies and you walk closely to the tree. But maybe it was the felon owl after all. 😂🤣🤣🤣👍 I agree that Petersen did it. A man who was living a life of complete deception vs ...an owl. The man did it. I have little doubt. Thank you for your hard work on these, Dr Grande. 🌹👍

[@willnill7946]

Elisa Mastromarino and that other women in Germany that also fell down the stairs

[@d3l3tes00n]

@@willnill7946 It's weird to do it the same way, though. I mean he's a writer... have some creativity lol

[@ladymopar2024]

Else can be nasty animals

[@qiuwbr091]

Elisa Mastromarino -There is still the question of how he got that sh@@ in her hair without it appearing suspicious.

[@yvettevernet4759]

No doubt he is guilty.

[@thebarky1988]

I watched the Staircase. There are so many wholes in the stories. On the 911 call he MP says his wife fell down the stairs. Anyone walking into that scene would think she was attacked. They also had major financial problems and he paid for sex. Does anyone think Kathleen , who divorced her first husband for infidelity, think she is ok with him paying for sex. I also think it’s a shame so little attention was paid to Kathleen. It’s all about Michael. He is a good actor.

[@arenasification]

@NE Powers obviously autocorrect

[@patriciaherrera3224]

Kathleen had a good job, she was the one taking the check to their house and paying for the bills. she was going to loose her job at the end of the year. Michael told a close friend about it couple of days before Kathleen’s death, and they were very worried about it, as they were having financial problems. There were some important things were not said in the serie. The filming was financed by Michael, so the serie presented him as a good guy. I think Kathleen’s murder has to do with their financial problem, don’t forget she had a life insurance over USD$1M. Everything points Michael as Kathleen’s killer

[@tropicaoptica]

I thought about that too... she's paying all the bills and he's spending hundreds or even thousands of dollars on escorts?

[@denicebrooks7056]

"Wholes" in the story?🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@yvonnedobell8793]

They should never have been allowed to film this, I also think that the dried was an issue, if it had just happened, the blood would be fresh, but yes you are right, they never acknowledged what a wonderful person kathleen was, it was all about him, lapping up the attention, at least her daughter saw the light, and figured he was guilty, I'm glad that he at least did eight years, as for his first wife who he lived with at the end, I wonder if he had a hand in that too.

[@elip466]

What also struck me is that Katheleen’s sister and daughter were convinced he was guilty. It’s almost like they knew something was wrong with him. Also, his own children said something like «I have to believe him » and « I asked him and he said he didn’t do it ». This sounds weird for a normal household. It’s like they had to support him because he’s their dad not because they knew 100% that he couldn’t have done it.

[@debratorres5299]

I found it odd how extremely loyal the two adopted daughters were to Michael. As if they couldn't handle seeing his guilt.

[@elip466]

@@debratorres5299 exactly, their dynamic was weird

[@cgordon1386]

That one step daughter of his, is as dumb as a post. Peterson murdered both mothers......period.

[@morningglory3644]

I don't understand how one daughter found him guilty, while the other four children didn't. They seemed loyal to him without question. Maybe, it's because they only saw what they wanted to see...that their father loved their mother, there were no heated arguments between them, they don't see their father as a psychopath & continued to live with him after Kathleen's death, etc. It's fair to say that they felt safe around him. Maybe Michael wasn't an overtly angry person? He may have been triggered by latent emotions from a past trauma. In the HBO series, we find out that he may have carried some resentment towards his mother. Maybe, he projected it onto his wife?

[@Didndoxkcoewo]

@@morningglory3644 Caitlin Atwater is Kathleen's daughter from her first marriage. The other four are either biological or adopted from Michael's first marriage.

[@Mishacanttouchthis]

I’ve never heard of this case....moral of the story: DON’T marry a man the last name Peterson!

[@nessapinkruby]

Watch "The Staircase." It's a documentary series on Netflix about the case, seems like Dr. Grande covers it pretty thoroughly though

[@mywhorled]

You ain't kidding! Scott, Drew, Michael, etc.

[@asheisadora]

He downplayed the fact that Michael's first wife had died from a staircase fall, and that Michael had a number of paid affairs with men that he met on the internet...and that his wife may have found out. None of these things necessarily make Michael guilty but it looks bad for the home team.

[@arenasification]

@@asheisadora he was gay and killed his sugar mamas when he grew tired of them. many women do it, why not him

[@analee3299]

yes

[@MFLimited]

The theory that the owl was outside is interesting. But, the theory that the owl was inside is impossible. I don’t know if anybody else has ever had an owl stuck in their house, but when an owl is freaking out there are feathers everywhere. Big feathers. Not just microscopic ones. Also he was the last man to see two women who were found dead at the bottom of the stairs? Really?!

[@samanthapurdy2053]

Maybe he took the first incident as inspiration

[@trudylatchman2002]

Not impossible my friend two weeks ago had an owl fly into her house and it too her days to get it to fly back out so yes if a window is open an owl can fly inside...

[@HollyFurgason]

@@samanthapurdy2053 More like reinforcement. Behaviors that are rewarded generally happen again. How was he rewarded besides getting away with it? No man spends every evening with a woman who just lost her husband as a way to show support. I believe they were having an affair (would love to see the girls DNA report) and he didn't want it known.

[@ShadowWizard123]

There is a video on KZbin of an eagle trying to pick up a toddler sitting in a park. There is a very solid evolutionary reason humans get unnerved when a shadow passes over them. Large birds can most definitely ruin your day.

[@myzacky96]

Exactly, what are the chances of that

[@motardsquid]

lol the owl had anger management issues. This one had me laughing out loud.

[@joev1097]

I am also dying Lol

[@babycakes1974]

lol. true! it is so funny. :)

[@debishaw9355]

Omg, I love this !

[@judemaleski4853]

How strange that the son was there and refused to give evidence? He reminds me of Woody Allen who also denied allegations made against him. Very mysterious.

[@holtonhamilton1551]

Quite literally the least “strange” thing to happen in this case. If you know anything about the US justice system the first thing you do is shut up. You put your hands behind your back and at most say “I understand my rights, I want a lawyer.” If the prosecution already has a biased view of what took place (they obviously did) they will try to weaponize everything you say or do against you. “Oh he was overly distraught on the scene!” Nobody on this prosecution has witnessed somebody they love die. Time moves different. Your actions are certainly odd to the unaffected. Either way they were going to weaponize it. How a jury found this man guilty beyond reasonable doubt is more of an oddity.

[@jenniferocious480]

In this particular case, can we call it an “Owl-ford” plea?

[@therealmrsruttle]

Oh wow that’s a good one! 🤣🤣🤣

[@Lerch-zc3ww]

Rimshot!

[@wigtorqued11]

Perfect!

[@rosemarykennedy5430]

That’s a hoot!

[@jenniferocious480]

@@rosemarykennedy5430 OMG I DID NOT SEE THAT COMING WELL PLAYED!!!!!!

[@edwinaleader5464]

I found his relationship with his adopted daughters unnatural the way they looked at him adoringly, reminded me of a cult leader and his followers.I also thought it interesting his brother appeared to pull back his support towards the end of the series.

[@clairewillow6475]

One of the daughters pulls back her support to but it’s more subtle

[@78skj]

My thoughts exactly, the children that stood by him seemed to idolise him. Then again, who knows what went down behind the cameras.

[@pippagreenslade891]

I thought she was his love child

[@jessbobess2530]

His son Todd now believes he’s guilty.

[@lynncrf]

Do you have a link to where Todd says he thinks his Dad is guilty?

[@mickbreen2180]

This man is a low key comedy genius.

[@lourdesquintana9516]

Mick Breen love this comment😂

[@LetThemGrumbIe]

I'm inclined to think Peterson is not guilty, but the analysis of the owl and his nonchalant tone and expression had me wheezing.

[@icounsel2]

Michael was not well liked by many who knew him (in Durham). He came across as having a sense of self-importance. He wrote several columns portraying the police in a negative way. When all of the evidence was gathered and analyzed, it did not appear that he was innocent.

[@Aron747L]

So true

[@grantwilliams2650]

Like the tootsie pop shit legitimately gave me a belly laugh

[@annasousa-wilkie5390]

Everyone said they had a great marriage. Everyone though that my ex-husband and I had a perfect marriage. People don’t know what goes behind closed doors, he was verbally abusive and a narcissist. In front of friends and acquaintances he was the nicest person, in front of my parents and his not so much,they could see he was an ass. That’s why he’s my ex-husband now, he has a girlfriend and he treats her the same way,people like this don’t change. People aren’t around them 24/7 not even the kids,I think he’s a liar and a narcissist,only my opinion.

[@Elphaba1952]

Exactly... my friends always said my ex and I had the perfect marriage... and then he walked out on me and our 2 daughters on my birthday for another woman... my friends were as shocked as I was.

[@kathrynoneill5862]

what a creep im so sorry for you and your daughters. My father left my mom when I was 11 on his way out he stole 20 bucks from my brother and myself that we earned during the summer washing cars, and lemonade stands things that kids did in the 80s. At first, I was heartbroken now im glad the loser left the 20 dollars was worth him to be out of our lives. All he did was take and cheat on my mom.

[@RedMoonDust]

One thing that bothered me about him when I watched the series was his constant nervous laughter that occurred out of context with the conversation. Then when we found out the mother of his adopted daughters died in the exact same way as his wife. I thought he was guilty and the whole owl theory was ridiculous.

[@sinceresong9907]

Also he acted very weird when they told him they were pulling up his ex wife's body...he didn't like it. He made it look like he was worried about his children, no he was worried his mess would be revealed.

[@atlehman69]

@@sinceresong9907 That wasn't his ex wife. Did u watch the series? How could you mistake that.

[@sinceresong9907]

@@atlehman69 He had an ex wife who died in the same circumstances.....years before he killed the most recent.

[@atlehman69]

@@sinceresong9907 Again, the woman who died on a staircase in Germany, Elizabeth Ratliff, was not his wife. She was the wife of his best friend. You don't know shit.

[@melodi996]

​@@atlehman69 go away and be rude to someboy else, this is not welcomed here.

[@tussiemussie9146]

In one documentary, it was stated that Kathleen had spent part of the afternoon setting out large Christmas displays beneath the trees in the front yard. That could explain why there were pine needles and microscopic owl feathers in her hair - she could have gotten them from working on the displays in the grass and ran her fingers through her hair, depositing them there.

[@lilyblossom1240]

Logical. Unlike an owl attacking with her making no noise, and dying on the stair case just by “accident”. And if she was so out of it, how could she get up to get some Christmas yard ornaments

[@mandychadwick6823]

Good thinking

[@Tt-qm2xg]

This makes so much more sense

[@flowerlady3150]

HBO had a scene w the neighbor asking where was the second reindeer during the garage sale.

[@mandychadwick6823]

@@flowerlady3150 I don’t understand? Please can you tell more?

[@kkheflin3]

I think often we get confused about "actual guilt" (whether the defendant actually committed the crime) and "legal guilt" (whether the prosecution can PROVE the defendant committed the crime). Defense attorneys ask not, "Did my client do it?" but rather "Can the prosecution PROVE my client did it?" And there is the rub....We don't have a verdict in America of "guilty" or "innocent." We have "guilty" or "not guilty." There's a big difference..... Think Casey Anthony and O.J. Simpson. They couldn't prove them both guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt." A defense attorney doesn't have to PROVE anything. All they have to do is introduce "reasonable doubt" in the minds of the jurors.

[@fayehelms507]

Yes...lots of confusion. Especially the owl....he was caught off guard....

[@TheStar798]

@kkheflin3 - well said 👏

[@smpotts173]

Yes. Those are very good points and the subtlety of the difference escapes us sometimes. I hear people use, "beyond a shadow of a doubt," there is a big difference between that and "reasonable" doubt. Sometimes everything adds up in a case but one thing......which isn't that rare. It can sometimes provide reasonable doubt, or just be an anomoly......

[@DanielaHernandez-es9rt]

You explained this beautifully. Thank you for that.

[@ScottishAnnie]

exactly and that is why there is so much in arguing & drama in the true crime community. (take the watts case) also if you say something along those lines of doubt then you are jumped on for defending the accused or want them to get off. whatever your personal feelings about what would be justice or whether they are guilty or not, guilt legally is very different.

[@mermaidtales3639]

This case truly baffled me and still does. With each episode of the series I kept going back and forth with what I believed based on the facts presented. I’m just grateful I didn’t have to sit on the jury in this one.

[@beagledog2001]

I felt just the same.

[@50sRockChick]

I totally agree.

[@drewnealski969]

If I had been on the jury on the original trial, I probably would have voted to convict him. If there had been a second trial, with all of the forensic evidence explained as BS, and the Germany evidence, and computer search evidence omitted, I would not have voted for a conviction. There’s simply no explanation for how she died other than the “he was the only other person in the house” theory.

[@sheliajones7853]

You know that after a few months the prosecution side decided not to do anymore filming so alot of testimonies aren't seen.but if you goggle cout tv it shows much more of their side and wow was this man guilty!

[@julianaferrone8734]

Yes I agree I keep thinking about how she could have fallen on stairway, was the staircase the murder weapon

[@williamhoward77wh]

I watched this series several times. You might consider analyzing the daughters too, very interesting the impact on them and their personalities too. In my opinion he is guilty and narcissistic.

[@ybrueckner5589]

William Howard Classic narcissist! Hit the nail!!

[@tenderheart7530]

William Howard Yes...and with huge rage issues. ☮️

[@tenderheart7530]

thievesarmy True ☮️

[@ybrueckner5589]

@thievesarmy Actually I agree the term Narcissiust is overused and misapplied to people with narcisstic tendencies. But this guy is one classic narcissist. Side Show Bob's got nothing on this guy. I also think there's reasonable doubt. It's not illegal the have NPD. I'd have been forced to acquit. I think his neighbor wrote a whole book about owl attacks that was very convincing

[@addie_is_me]

Omg, those daughters!! They are beyond addicted to him and the belief he is not guilty, but not in a normal way a person would be desperate to prove a convicted loved one's innocent, more like he is crack, magical, super addictive crack to them. They are pretty scary.

[@tapsars7911]

Dr. Grande analyzes and explains things in such a nice manner that even people not from a psychology related background , can really enjoy his videos .

[@BB1990x]

My alarm bells went off a little when he said the son refused to make a statement. Why was the son there? How did he beat the cops there? I’d be curious to know more about the dynamic between father and son.

[@zeusmasterson4117]

The son was at a party nearby, so I don’t think it’s significant that he showed up. He had his date with him.

[@laceyunderall22]

Zeus Masterson wow. I feel sorry for the (presumably) young lady. I’ve had my fair share of dates that ended badly. But this scenario takes the cake.

[@aqua4497]

He's probably gay like dad but pretends not to know.

[@aqua4497]

Becca - A lot of information not used in court it's shocking. Why the case of DNA tests never played out during the case is unbelievable. His hands needed testing for blood - he washed at the kitchen sink. His bloody shoe stepped on her leg as he stepped away after beating and choking her against the sharp corners of the wood frame. He must have pushed hard while she slid against the wood frame - caused the deep cuts. I'm sure he lifted her up and repeated the choking several times.. Why did he cut 911 operator twice? To avoid too many questions.. Wife discovered gay picture police found behind his computer. I think first wife left him due to infidelity plus the adoption of his friend's babies, plus his spending time with the woman he ended up killing. If he was all that nice, why did that wife walk out?

[@laurenmay2098]

Aqua 44 Michael Peterson is bisexual, not gay.

[@NPitts-cw3oe]

I read an article written by an Italian medical examiner that expressed her theory and it literally sent chills up my spine as it accounted for every single piece of evidence. After fleeing from Michael or being pushed Kathleen fell on or near the bottom of the steps and door frame. Michael then grabbed her by the front and side hairs of her head and began banging the back and top of her head against the stairs and or door frame. After Michael left the scene, Kathleen mustards the strength or consciousness to rise again and attempted to flee with her back toward Michael. Michael kicks her down, likely drug her to the steps again, and continued the beating. This time he was either standing astride or kneeling astride her which caused all the spatter on and up his pants. Her own hair in her hand was an attempt to get her hair out of Michael's hands which is incredibly common during a domestic dispute / catfight. Microscopic owl hairs and pine needles very well could have come from trees outside or just the wind as they were microscopic in nature. There is not a soul that walked into a crime scene like that and thought their loved one fell down the stairs. If solely for my own safety, I would instantly be hyper aware that this was likely an attack, and be concerned as to where the killer was still there. Also, while I'm unsure which of the daughters but one of them looks JUST LIKE HIM. I'm wondering if he took the adopted DAUGHTERS and left the sons with their mother in an effort to keep the money the mother left behind.

[@annadenardis6429]

Interesting. My question though is: how would such repeated and savage smashing and banging of her head against hard surfaces cause absolutely no damage to the skull or to the brain, not even edema? That baffles me and I cannot make sense of it.

[@moonsharn]

As a person who has experienced this kind of domestic violence, I can tell you, he’d be covered in her blood spatter. Where were the bloody clothes? There’s just no forensic evidence to back up that scenario. And even if there was 30 minutes of missing time, which is the largest possible margin of error in the time sequence, it would be impossible for him to eradicate all incriminating forensics, the police followed him around and swept the place with incredible attention to detail, they were thorough. And feather fragments… where did they come from? Have you seen injuries from a bird of prey before? They look exactly like Kathleen’s scalp. As much as it’s tempting to point the finger at him because he is a bit different (which most writers are), there’s definitely reasonable doubt. It’s unlikely that he’s guilty.

[@xxxEmstarxxx]

With the kind of injuries you’re describing, it would’ve caused some form of skull fracture or brain damage, which she didn’t have 🤷‍♀️ I can’t decide if I believe he did it yet

[@heath2483]

Colonel Mustard on the staircase with the stuffed owl, perhaps

[@sullivanknoth6430]

Forensic Files did an episode on this case, and it had me convinced he is guilty as hell.

[@Skye-ze4ow]

Because it’s unbelievably biased towards the prosecution.

[@Skye-ze4ow]

@Cindy Tartt exactly. So narrow minded because people listen to one thing and immediately jump to conclusions before listening to other evidence/other sides of the story. Happens too often in life sadly.

[@Noneofyourbizzzz]

Umm no! Forensic files was done filming waaaay before this case happened.

[@randalclarke5487]

@Cindy Tartt exactly...great point! We've left reasonable doubt at the side of the road these days and convict on personality flaws and "they didn't react right" type of crap. Don't doubt for a second that Nancy Grace has influenced this new group-think model and nefarious prosecution tactics by psychology undergraduates as well. These documentaries are often biased, but I believe toward a truth for innocent people, in the end who are being convicted by the media and public.

[@neorev01]

@@Noneofyourbizzzz it was definitely on forensic files and easily verified

[@MollyWhopMMA]

I'm guessing you've deduced he's a chronic narcissist. The guy was unbelievable. Whether he's a murderer or not, I'd certainly have some doubts.

[@sjtdxitditsitdurzirxur5926]

Mixed Molly Whoppery! Huge fan of your work! Interesting to see you're also a fan of Dr. Grande's work considering how much you talk about the mental side of fighting

[@11buleria]

I thought he was not believable. He is guilty as hell.

[@rosadeplata1752]

Actually nothing in his behavior to me indicated a narcissistic personality.

[@v3l0city71]

@@rosadeplata1752 Yes, thank you! I tried hard to look for narcissitic behaviors...I mean, if he is, he is quite talented but he talks about his children feelings more than his own.

[@lisachapa8516]

I was disappointed that the discussion about Peterson, his personality, prosecution, the biased trial, etc...were all talked about with an intelligent and discerning air, yet the "owl theory" is joked about disrespectfully, dismissively and not treated with the same concern or science. There were raptor experts who have proven evidence that during certain life cycles, such as mating season, that owls can become territorial and have been known to attack humans aggressively. It would certainly explain the two talon shaped injuries to Kathleen's skull, which would not have caused fracture or brain injury, but could certainly have caused profuse bleeding. Scalp wounds are known to bleed excesively. She may have gone outside, who knows why, (I don't understand why this point is so outrageous to some people, I walk outside all hours of the night to call the cat in or check if I locked my car, ESPECIALLY after up late drinking) she was then attacked by the owl, hence hair, feathers and pine needles in her own hands, along with small puncture wounds to her face, then she freaked the f out, because who wouldn't if they'd just been attacked by a large bird. She may then have ran into the house, possibly a bit tipsy, tired, panicked and a bit confused, also bleeding from a head injury so perhaps had blood or hair in her face so, disoriented, she runs to get something to stop the bleeding, slips in her own blood and hits her head against the wall as she falls down the stairs. How in the hell do you explain those very specific injuries to her skull? Someone would have had to hit her specifically and accurately like six times. Would she have just decided to hold still for this beating? It makes no sense. There is physically more evidence to an owl or hawk attack than anything else.

[@Erinski]

"Evidently, she did not miss the class that covered owl attacks." Your delivery of jokes is one of my new favorite things.

[@difri2000]

My husband, his crew and my son videotaped the entire trial for CourtTV. They were completely convinced of his guilt.

[@reginaheath6131]

He is guilty by what I see imo

[@roxannedanielson7134]

I think it was him or him covering up for his son

[@teramonte7077]

Interesting, why were they so convinced of his guilt?

[@TheNesbittExperience]

Dr Henry Lee’s evidence showed that it was probable.

[@laraking804]

2 wives died the same way. He absolutely was guilty.

[@statsmakten7614]

The thing about the owl theory is just because it's highly unlikely doesn't mean it's not possible. Back in around 2010 a man in Sweden was arrested for the murder of her wife who was found bludgeoned to death near their home. The police tried to push a theory of him running her over with a lawn mower and they were so convinced of his guilt that they didn't bother looking for other suspects or theories. But, much later some forensic analysts started asking questions and the victim's clothes were examined again. They found a large amount of moose saliva. The lacerations matched the damage from hooves, and the animal fur found in her eye was finally identified as coming from a moose. Going back watching interrogations with the husband, he even mentioned "extremely loud noices from the forest, maybe from a moose". Even to this day a lot of people still think he's guilty, because the truth was just too absurd. As for your analysis of the owl behavior, I understand that you wanted to crack some jokes but if we look at actually plausible scenarios: Owls are nocturnal so it made sense for one to be active at the time of death. Animals are extremely protective of their children, and owls just like any other animal will attack if you get too close. When birds attack they always go for the head, and it's not unusual they get stuck in the hair. Owls are very silent predators, you wouldn't hear it come at you and you would have no idea what's attacking you. Imagine the disorientation and panic that would inflict.

[@zombih4029]

Could you link that swedish case?

[@statsmakten7614]

​@@zombih4029 search for "murder of Agneta Westlund", there's also a podcast episode called "Moose murder" from Midweek Murders.

[@georgewagner7787]

I think his jokes were very insensitive. The woman is dead after all. It's not like his other sarcasm where the truth is obvious to everyone. Not funny.

[@RollSoundCameraAction]

The owl theory is explained very well in the new HBO series The Staircase

[@2lipToo]

Highly unlikely? Maybe if their house was in the middle of the city but they lived in an area with wildlife, the suburbs?

[@happyhealthyhomesllc2587]

I, for one, would be screaming my head off if an owl attacked me...the whole neighborhood would be hearing about it, and no way would my husband have missed it! Don't you think??...

[@ClearConscience.]

And their dogs wouldv barked surely?

[@Jairogliphx]

Yes but she wasn’t attacked outside the attack happened in the staircase/kitchen . The investigators even did a sound test to see if they can hear her scream or plea for help and they couldn’t hear her from the inside of the house

[@vantid]

My thought at the end: Well. Owl be damned.

[@garden5137]

😂 don't make me laugh

[@traceycampbell8961]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Logic-km7ui]

Your honor, I submit that the owl did have a motive. It was to protect her nestlings from a potential attack. This was likely her first offense, so no prior record would be in evidence nor would she have learned how to commit the perfect crime while in the owl slammer.

[@JustineBrownsBookshelf]

Excellent summary. I’d like to add that the editor of the film had a long affair with Michael Peterson, which helps to explain the slant of an admittedly engaging documentary.

[@sweetox_9690]

That is interesting! I didn't know that

[@JustineBrownsBookshelf]

jib jabs mcadoo She was an editor called Sophie Brunet, I believe.

[@JustineBrownsBookshelf]

Dale Gribble Looks like Michael Peterson is bisexual.

[@zagortenay33]

So you basically say that, the producer and the director of the documentary let the editor paint the story whichever way she liked and were not bothered by the fact that they were vindicating a criminal. Could that be so easy?

[@JustineBrownsBookshelf]

I think the French documentary team had a narrative: “bigoted Southerners condemn sensitive open-minded artist. Lucky we are here to shed light.”

[@LisaD007]

This was one of the most interesting, insightful and ENTERTAINING analyses you have ever done! Keep them coming , dr. Grande!

[@MassEffectGER]

At least one medium-velocity blood spatter was found on the inside of Peterson's shorts. And if I correctly remember the Forensic Files episode, a bloody footprint of one of Peterson's shoes have been found on his wife's body. That's clearly not coming from a first-aid attempt...

[@heidih3048]

Yes, I remember both of those too from Forensic Files

[@brendar.8185]

The fact that the wounds were so high up on Kathleen’s head made me believe he beat her. I mean she would have had to have landed on the top of her head 4 times. Also as he was being so sad when he made the documentary he was involved with the films editor Sophie Barnet. Also how did his bloody footprint get on the back of her pants when she was laying on her back?

[@beneficialfrequencies8907]

They were fighting at the bottom of the stairs probably about his gay sex with other men.. He banged her head backwards several times on the stairs whilst holding her down. This is how she got those gashes on the back of her head.

[@dangremillion]

When a bird or an owl attacks you, most often they aim for the top of your head as they are flying down from a significant height much higher than a person is tall. Take a look at a Barn owl's talons and their legs which are covered by feathers.

[@bjs9354]

and the wounds were curved...Also, the other wife was exhumed from the grave and they determined she had trama to the head and the daughters still had no doubt he was innocent of killing their mother..Why would daughters be tat sure that the mother was not a victim of his..no doubt at all.

[@DaVinci368]

@@dangremillion or maybe it was aliens..,

[@noushs8004]

@@bjs9354 some daughters form unhealthy attachments to their loved ones and ignore the glaring red flags, extreme denial

[@nicolai6161]

I first saw this years ago.. I thought the series displayed his sociopathic traits. The facts rendered him completely unbelievable

[@LilyfromUruguay]

I agree.

[@tinywalnut6337]

"A little bit biased"?? Honey, it was literally filmed and produced by his buddies. It was meant to make him look good. 😳

[@splifstar85]

Right.. and the prosecutor with a vengeance (due to being a subject of his journalist investigation), would be totally unbiased in presenting the evidence, rather than staging the evidence (as was proven he did)🙈🙈

[@tinywalnut6337]

@@splifstar85 Cool story, bro.

[@normagrimstad8869]

Yes, one of the film crew had an affair with him.

[@rafaelmillan5800]

@@normagrimstad8869 Holllaaaaa

[@HeatherHolt]

Damn was it really made by his buddies? I haven’t seen it but I doubt they disclose that at the beginning or at any point in the show? I’ve heard about the owl theory and I just can’t even.

[@istateyourname4710]

After viewing the documentary, there is a definite 'chill' factor I got from watching Peterson. Phony as a 3 dollar bill.

[@zaidaahida1868]

There are no 3 dollar bills?

[@redsloane879]

Yep, me too!!

[@11buleria]

Isn’t he a creep. He comes off as a total phony liar. I don’t see how his two wives could not have seen something big was wrong with him. I’ve laughs all the time which is weird.

[@lijonnova]

@@11buleria it also seems he forces himself to keep crying to appear more empathetic than he really is to make you think he would never kill her... it seems so calculated and off tho

[@Helvetica247]

He has such an evasive demeanor. My feeling about him is that he has something - many things in all probability - to hide.

[@snellavision]

This made me realise that the average jury pool doesn't know what "beyond a reasonable doubt" means nor the meaning of "presumption of innocence"

[@Jesusloves3]

Here's a little more on why Micheal Peterson might be guilty and a little more about his behavioral history *Odd behavior* Michael deleted a large number of files and photos from his computer the day before and after her death. *216 files were deleted the day before Kathleen died and 352 were deleted two days afterward, according to Markley.* Michael's over-the-top attempts to sound romantic and like he loved Kathleen: "Kathleen was my life. I whispered her name in my heart a thousand times. She is there. But I can't stop crying." Yet, his actual *natural behavior seems so cold and uninterested in Kathleen. He's just obsessed with "winning the game"* of court and not having to deal with the case anymore. I know people grieve in different ways, but his behavior from the beginning seemed off and never really changed unless it was for the public. There are a few scenes where he's smoking a cigar and speaking about Kathleen's death and it's as if he's remembering it fondly. It's just weird. Evidently *he has a bad temper and would often fly into fits of rage.* There were rumors that he killed a family pet after beating it when he was angry. Michael had a collection of war medals but no paperwork. He lied about getting all of these honors when he served time. His father actually earned medals, so he may have taken them and pretended they were his. Showing his life is a web of lies. *Murder scene* Kathleen’s blood had long been dry by the time police showed up, despite Michael saying she was still breathing when he called 911 had “died in his arms.” Kathleen’s brain had *red neurons.* These neurons appear a few hours before death, so the neuropathologist estimated that her death took around 2 hours and was slow and painful. This doesn’t match up with Michael’s story of Kathleen going inside, while he smoked a cigar at the pool, and then came in 45 minutes after (which was actually his second story). Dr. Radisch found that Kathleen had defensive wounds on her arms and marks consistent with manual strangulation on her throat. Michael’s *bloody shoe print* on the back of Kathleen’s leg. Evidence that someone had attempted to clean the crime scene. If you came upon your dead/dying wife, why would you take the time to clean up the blood? And if not, Michael, who would have tried to clean it? Michael's son, Clayton, was the first at the murder scene and he refused to cooperate with police, as did Michael. The *blood on the door going out to the patio.* It was a small speck of blood on the door frame going outside. While first responders were attending to Kathleen, *Michael was at his desk checking emails on his computer.* Even after the death *Micheal chose to live in the same house*

[@im19ice3]

that last detail of staying in the same house really gave me the chills :/

[@zagortenay33]

Great points...

[@garden5137]

I thought living in the house w/all that blood was beyond strange! I guess they couldn't clean it yet bc of trail but I could NEVER live there or even near it

[@jenniferingraham9513]

You nailed it!

[@kam0406]

The owl feathers and pine needles were just coincidental. If you sit outside under a pine tree for a while, you're likely going to have some pine needles and feathers in your hair. I have hiked many times in wooded areas and brushed things out of my hair numerous times. The owl theory was a shameful defense and a weak one, at that. The blood smudges on the door seem to point to the victim escaping to potentially get help or flee her attacker. She was probably lured back into the home or was blinded by blood in her eyes or was in shock (or all three). This was a gruesome and horrific murder and Peterson is where he belongs and should have been the FIRST time he committed murder.

[@SusantheNerdy]

The type of feathers were not the type of feathers you'd pick up outside. They were pinfeathers from legs.

[@savvreneee]

michael is not in jail. i live in durham, and he frequently comes in my job, and orders 2 large pizzas to go and leaves.

[@lolotaeja3911]

He's out of prison and has been for a while.

[@normagrimstad8869]

The fact that the blood was dry, and that his son was there, and wouldn’t make any statement, is a red flag. Also, how does a bloody footprint get on her? I think they had a violent fight over a period of time, and she was so injured, he knew he would be in deep water, so he either killed her or let her die.

[@decristal48]

I have the theory that this was an accident at first... Michael saw her calling for him, but realized it was convenient for him to do nothing. Later, he either wait for her to die without trying to help... or make sure she die injuring her head. After she die, he bring some towels to make it seem like he was trying to save her.

[@dangremillion]

Then he sprinkled pine needles and owl feathers in her hair for good measure.

[@normagrimstad8869]

@@dangremillion she was outside too. That’s likely why she had pine needles and microscopic owl feathers in her hair.

[@superash31]

@@normagrimstad8869 nobody denied that she had been outside. MP described how they both went to sit by the pool

[@superash31]

Iv heard him reply in an interview to the question of the bloody footprint on K. He said he took off his shoes because the blood was so slippy and accidentally stepped on her whilst trying to clean the blood, help her

[@GoblinsAreAGirlsBestFriend]

This documentary really made me wonder how America is comfortable with its jury justice system. Juries are great, but to put to put such a huge, fact-intended decision on a subjective layman jury without any balance or question would frighten me. There is such a big chance of jurors going with feelings as opposed to facts and ultimately the aim is to factually decide if someone has been proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt. I thought in this case, regardless of whether he was actually guilty or innocent, there was no way there was proof beyond a reasonable doubt - no way at all. The only proof they had was that they didn't know what happened.

[@littleredwitch]

That’s why in France there is a judge or /and a magistrate present during jury deliberations, not to influence but to guide the jury’s findings. For example, someone might not want to budge in finding X guilty simply because X looks “like a bloody murderer” or, like in Peterson’s case, “he’s just a indebted homosexual who would want to keep his wife out of the way”. It does disturb me that a jury composed of simple people who might have no concept of the Law mechanism can have the power of life and death over someone. Peterson was victim of character assassination right from the start and also of presumption relating to death of his friend in Germany. Dr Grande forgot to mention that Peterson’s wife was .08 in alcohol reading, so quite drunk and maybe a bit unsteady on her feet if she disturbed a barn owl and tried to shoo it off her hence the disastrous result.

[@Dina8958]

Totally agree! The birds can be vicious!

[@richardhaines7029]

@@littleredwitch I’m personally leaning towards him being innocent however, had the prosecution/police did their jobs properly then a) a guilty man would still be in jail where he belongs or b) an innocent man never spent one day in prison. It’s all the articles from the 90’s where MP is very critical of the local judiciary that convinced me that they were for sure out to get him any way they could.

[@sdotp3605]

I think also because he was gay, and that was such a crazy concept in the early 2000s, the jury was definitely swayed one way. It's so crazy to believe such concepts existed such a short time ago, it's sad

[@Qwerty-jy9mj]

@@sdotp3605 She killed her over his secret, that much is clear, why wouldn't that be relevant to the jury?

[@hannahgordon676]

Honestly when I first watched this I was like ‘he’s innocent’. Then I went back and rewatched it and thought that he was 100% guilty. He comes across as so cold and unbothered by the death of ‘the love of his life’. The whole documentary is so biased towards him, and I later found out he entered into a relationship with one of the producers during the production 🤔.

[@GeorgeJung19856]

common...u dont need to watch it twice.. his first girl died falling down the steps ... and "*drumroll*" his nd wife died falling down the steps ...the house looked like freaking michael myers was there xD ...case closed :D

[@atlehman69]

Dude he cried while talking about Kathleen like 30 times throughout that documentary, wtf r u talking about? He droned on about her relentlessly.

[@atlehman69]

@@MrBluesMessiah The missing one was found and fotographed by the investigators well before the trial and they never told the defense.

[@atlehman69]

@@MrBluesMessiah Yes, they found it in June in the garage that nobody used and photographed it. There was no blood on it or signs of cleaning. They never reported that to the defense and instead pretended that it mysteriously disappeared from its spot next to the fire place. Michael Peterson claims he looked for it in that unused garage and didn't see it, which initially might seem suspect, but as they noted in the documentary, it was missing the decorative hooked tip, making it look like an old curtain rod. It did not look much like a blow poke. When the defense found it mid trial the prosecution tried to claim there's no way to trust that Peterson and his legal team didn't just buy one and plant it in the house, knowing full well THEY THEMSELVES found it exactly where the defense did months earlier. David Rudolph noted all this in court when Michael gave his Alford Plea. It was one of the many reasons David listed as to why Michael Peterson cannot trust the justice system to give him a fair trial. He said that's why Michael is taking the Alford Plea instead of fighting for his innocence again. That Blow Poke was a complete fabrication by the prosecution. It was their perfect weapon to explain how she could have been beaten to death without sustaining skull fractures or any brain hematomas - something never before seen in a beating death in NC. It supposedly was hard enough to cause the lacerations, but hollow and light enough to spare her from fractures or brain bleeding. It was a total FARCE! Michael is beyond innocent. This is the tip of the iceberg in terms of the criminal abortion of justice committed by the prosecution.

[@atlehman69]

@@MrBluesMessiah Who knows what happened. Knowing all the bad faith exhibited on the part of the prosecution, I'm going to assume bad faith here too. They developed their blow poke theory well after finding it Im sure, after the house was no longer under control of the state. They didn't find it and immedietly come up with the blow poke theory I'm sure. THAT would not make sense.

[@tapsars7911]

If there were bloody footprints in the house then it could not have meant a simple tumbling down the stairs . Also , there was the matter of the other lady's 'fall' in Germany .

[@caseyw.6550]

That moment when you know Dr. Grande is about to start spitting jokes....🙏

[@mariaroncalli863]

The Staircase series makes you lean towards innocence (although realistically...he did it) UNTIL the creeeeeepy final conversation he has over the phone with his daughter Margaret (episode 13, the second to last scene, where Margaret tells him over the phone that she is relieved that the nightmare is over and “we can just all hang out and not have to talk about legal stuff.” And this is Michael’s response: “Right. Right. Well, until SOMEBODY ELSE fucks up, right?” (Confession much???) to which they both chuckle and Margaret replies: “At least YOUR legal stuff.” And he says: “Well, I’m planning my next one, alright?” They both laugh and he adds: “I don’t want to be forgotten, Margaret.” This is probably the most honest exchange Michael has had and it is CHILLING.

[@Emilythematerialgurl]

He probably meaning like if another person fucked up the investigation then everyone has go back to court again

[@lennarthagen3638]

Just stop Michael is innocent

[@dorisflindt2907]

@@lennarthagen3638😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@heath2483]

omg what an absurd interpretation. I sure hope you're never on a jury

[@thesportswarehouse8853]

Sounds benign to me coming from a family with a fucked up humor

[@hollymarie4508]

This case is local to me and regardless of the preposterous owl theory, what is the statistical likelihood that you find two women DEAD at the bottom of a staircase in your life? Yeah, no coincidence.

[@roosreviews3624]

Well said !

[@user-um2uf9zq4c]

This is a crazy way to see the world. Unlikely isn't impossible. Do you believe people win the lottery? Do you believe rare genetic diseases exist? You've never seen crazy coincidences? You must live quite a sedentary life. I see crazy stuff all the time and have had it happen to me. I hope you never get as unlucky as some people. By the way, statistically, it's more likely that you would find two women dead at the bottom of a staircase than be born at all (when you factor in the single spermatazoa that made each one of your ancestors beat out the millions of others over generations... there is statistically 0 chance that you personally exist. I mean, you expect me to beleive that YOU made it out of millions of other sperm and the time and date *just happened* to be 9 months before your birth and the *same thing* happened with *ALL* of your ancestors? That's ridiculous.

[@ninanano]

@@user-um2uf9zq4c you seem weirdly defensive of a man that's in jail... talking about sperm 😭

[@user-um2uf9zq4c]

@@ninanano Genius... he's in jail is he? Yeah, I get the analogy is probably too hard for you... here: Statistically highly unlikely that you exist, so I don't believe you exist. You can't argue against that argument, because it's true. I mean... I'm sure *you* could, but I'm also confident you'd argue that water isn't wet.

[@awarewolves1712]

I get your point, I think he's guilty, but it could happen. I mean people have been struck twice by lightening, won the lottery twice and so forth.

[@jamesw17]

This is an ambitious request: could you analyse the Queen as depicted in the Netflix series The Crown? Thank you for your work, Dr Grande.

[@franmellor9843]

@@audrey1731 it's been said he really is a phsycopath! Who knows though

[@franmellor9843]

@Björn Óðinn Sigurðsson of course she does and if she wanted to could have stopped it ..the QUEEN is an absolute Monarch they defer to her on everything that is the order of things

[@qiuwbr091]

James W - I’m not sure it’s fair. But the media colors things as they desires them to be. Her husband is the one who needs analysis imo

[@jamesw17]

@@audrey1731 I don't think so. Philip is not an especially interesting individual, in my opinion. The Queen is a lot more complex and inscrutable.

[@littleflower8915]

Please analyze Nancy Pelosi.

[@joceelee]

What is shocking though, is how the owl got Michael’s tennis shoe, put blood on the sole and then stamped it on the back of Kathleen’s leg.

[@gloriamontgomery6900]

That’s one nefarious , scheming, determined owl!

[@redsloane879]

He was a very crafty owl for sure!!!

[@justhere4697]

There are very intelligent owls in that community.

[@isabellacatanzaro3338]

How he could help her without touching? With the power of the mind?

[@LaVidayElTristeFinal]

The woman in Germany died by falling a set of stairs and he was the last person to see her alive. He had a motive, since he was going to inherit her money (because he had been designated as the custodian of her children). He got away with it in Germany and did it again in North Carolina. Seriously, what are the odds that TWO women connected to him would die in that exact and very unusual manner? Regarding his wife, he also had a compelling motive. She had just found in his computer that he had a secret life and many gay lovers. She was going to dump his sorry ass and he'd be homeless, penniless and outed as gay; his whole life was at stake. And again, what are the odds that two women connected to him die accidentally by falling from the stairs? C'mon...

[@rockergirl2489]

Well said .

[@jerrywilliamson8372]

True

[@craighicksartwork]

Weird things can happen. And we shouldn't convict someone because of circumstantial evidence which is exactly what that is.

[@matthewlafrance8817]

That’s just not how the courts work. There IS a reasonable doubt, in fact there are several. Possible he did it? Sure! But is there a reasonable doubt? Absolutely

[@LaVidayElTristeFinal]

@@craighicksartwork: Weird things? There is nothing weird here. There were only two persons in the house. One discovered the gay affairs the other one was having, confronted him, and ended up with her head beaten to a pulp. It’s pretty simple actually.

[@danieldougan269]

If they had said a goose instead of an owl, I would have believed that theory. Geese are evil and capable of anything.

[@jenniferruth812]

Lol! Yep never trust a goose!

[@gloriamontgomery6900]

They are soooo aggressive. And utterly relentless. Side note: geese are so aggressive that the Dewar’s Scotch Distillery in Scotland actually has a flock of guard geese . Seriously.

[@HeatherHolt]

Omg my mother has a photo of me at around 3 years old, running from a goose that was bitting me on my back and legs. Great parenting 🤦‍♀️ put down the camera and save your child lol she still thinks it was funny but I stay the hell away from geese still and I’m 36 now 😂

[@debishaw9355]

Roosters are worse. I was traumatized by a rooster when I was a kid. No wonder I hated going to my grandmas house.

[@jeffhandley3224]

@@debishaw9355 I trained one to attack ppl and would lie and say he’s nice pet him

[@jaynedavis3388]

Oh come on! An owl didn’t just decide to attack someone, it was obviously acting on orders from the Lizard-People

[@emmaphilo4049]

😂😂😂

[@redsloane879]

Gasp! I thought they'd all been captured!! Apparently not!

[@redsloane879]

@@smpotts173 Well.... that was an entertaining and well written read!! Thank you!! 👍😁

[@smpotts173]

@@redsloane879 LOL! LOL!

[@smpotts173]

@@redsloane879 LOL! LOL!

[@EverettNewell]

The owl's motivation was Tootsie pop-related. Of course!

[@MzShonuff123]

That owl *did* seem like he always had an agenda. Always goading people in the commercials. That owl was just out for himself.

[@chandrakai2450]

I look forward to Dr. Grande’s analysis on Choo Choo Charlie, the Good ‘N’ Plenty killer.

[@susiefoxy8130]

I think the owl followed Michael from Germany...owls really hold grudges!

[@jennylovesjoe1224]

This comment thread makes me smile! 😁

[@watcherwlc53]

I was wondering how many people caught that... wondering if younger people caught that too (don't remember how long the commercial ran)

[@Mandy7D7]

I was unsure about a fall causing the insane injuries Kathleen had until I saw another incident of a woman who fell down the stairs, she survived long enough to tell people it was a fall and it was found she required a chairlift and the machine had died halfway down. She tried to get the rest of the way herself and fell. It was the exact same type of blood loss, blood spatter and the like lacerations as Kathleen, yet hospital staff thought she was attacked with a machete. It sickens me that the blow poke was found and even photographed by the State, yet they then hid that fact then claimed it was the murder weapon. I just can't say he killed her for sure.

[@superash31]

Mandy D until you figure in the other woman found dead by him at the bottom of a staircase!

[@GooglSucksDisk]

Kathleen didn't fall half way down a flight of stairs like your comparison.

[@markzajac9993]

My thought exactly. All of a sudden we're all experts on head injuries.

[@cindyrhodes]

ROFL!!!! Rebecca Raddish did not miss the class on owl attacks. I actually like this woman, but that was a great comment.

[@TheRealBamboonga]

Wait...hold up a second... The Medical Examiner's name is Rebecca Raddish? That sounds like a character in a children's book about farming...

[@TheRealBamboonga]

"Hi, I'm Rebecca Raddish...be sure to cook me before you eat me, else I'll burn your tongue. And also, there's no fucking way an owl could have killed that woman. I would know. Because I'm Rebecca Raddish."

[@cindyrhodes]

LOL!!! Her name is actually Deborah Radisch, and she is a very nice person! 😃

[@alexweiner7861]

I almost crashed my car when he said that lol

[@cindyrhodes]

@@alexweiner7861 😆 LOL

[@irreversiblyhuman]

Excited to listen to this. I was really exasperated after watching the documentary. It doesn't really lead to anything. Interested to hear what Dr Grande has to say.

[@teresahowick5197]

Psychonaut did you know he dated the editor of the staircase? I mean, if that’s not a conflict of interest I don’t know what is.

[@irreversiblyhuman]

@@teresahowick5197 wow. Talking about hidden bias! Thank you for pointing it out, I had no idea. This actually explains quote a bit why the narrative why so one sided.

[@DenverDeathrock]

It was never concluded that those were owl feathers. They could have been down from a pillow or comforter. They were also damn near microscopic. Since the case is 100 percent over and will never be reopened, the feathers will never be tested. "The pictures she saw of the feather samples, though, were inconclusive, and couldn't even point her to a particular taxonomic order of birds, let alone a narrower group or family." - Wired

[@marzipanhunt2870]

The 1 microfeather mentioned in the original SBI report could only be seen when magnified 400x's. I have found that most uninformed individuals who give credence to this nonsense think that Kathleen had actual visible owl feathers (plural) in her hand. Of course you are 100% right, only 1 microfeather never identified as coming from an owl let alone a barred owl. Michael Peterson is a monstrous psychopath!

[@marzipanhunt2870]

@aaronsdavis Hi, owls don't regularly attack people. It does happen that an owl may swoop down and very rarely make contact but no owl deaths. (1) Maybe you didn't know but the word OWL was never said during the 2003 trial. (2) Also Michael Peterson's lawyers while preparing for a 2nd trial conducted a world wide search looking for a case where an owl killed a human and they could not find even one case. If they had gone to trial they were not going to use "the owl did it defense". (3) In the first trial the defense team never did push "the feather thing". (4) No owl feather was ever found at the murder scene. Michael Peterson is a monstrous premeditating psychopath who tried to make it look like an accidental fall down the stairs to collect 1.4 million in insurance money. GUILTY.

[@gloriamontgomery6900]

Oh, I didn’t know that!

[@rockeyracoon3716]

I think Deaver was so enamored with his own credibility and significance being someone who’s testimony could swing the vote, he didn’t care about anything else. Truly sick!

[@mwheeler138]

This is probably the most confounding and frustrating case I've ever looked into. And like Dr. Grande I usually come down to Peterson probably did it, but there was reasonable doubt, and I walk away very dissatisfied. The states case kinda sinks. I don't why he did it, what he used and certainly don't know HOW he did it. I don't believe she fell down those steps, and the cg mock up video of the digital lady repeatedly falling down the steps the defense had made gave me an audible laugh. I don't think an owl did it either. I've looked up as many owl wounds and attacks I could find and they just aren't consistent with these wounds. Besides this would have to be one hellish and stealthy owl. It seems unlikely an intruder came in and killed her without Michael hearing a struggle, etc. And I don't know how in the world he beat her to death with a blow poke, or smashed her head against the steps, without fracturing her skull. There weren't cast off patterns high on the wall or ceiling either. Its very frustrating that we can't get to the answer. It's confounding.

[@judytaylor3099]

The blood splatter on the inside of his shorts and the bloody footprint on her body convinced me.

[@marzipanhunt2870]

Premeditated murder all the way!

[@melissapekarek3283]

Joins you on The Walk of Dissatisfaction. (but keeps 6 feet apart) I'm a skeptic and am willing to entertain Crazytown destinations with certain cases because life is stranger than fiction. But this case...and the lack of anything that makes forensic sense... we're stuck with Blowpokes, Bard Owls and Bupkis!

[@katelynbrown98]

The Rebecca Zahau case is just as frustrating.

[@kellyfinleybrown9313]

Another great presentation..."Let the evidence lead the investigation and solve the crime". Thanks Dr. Grande.

[@jeanettewaverly2590]

As much as I enjoyed your raptor humor, I must say the owl theory is not as far-fetched as it seems. I’ve been a ranger naturalist and I keep livestock. Even small animals are capable of inflicting considerable damage when they are panicked or defending their young. The evidence - rooted hair, feathers, pine needles - supports a possible scenario wherein the lady encroached upon the space of a nesting owl or somehow, probably unwittingly, created a situation in which it felt cornered or trapped. I wish the owl theory had been rigorously examined by the appropriate specialists in raptor behavior and forensic pathologists familiar with avian-caused trauma.

[@KennyRider137]

I still have a hole in my knee and pain from my rooster who sparred me last week. And even ducks have sharp talons. I don't know why everyone thinks birds aren't at all dangerous.

[@mapleleaf0]

I totally agree. The lack of brain or skull injury coupled with her own hair being pulled out by the roots in her own hand with microscopic feathers and pine needles is something that gave me great pause when I first learned of those details. The idea isn't that the owl "killed" her per se. It's that she got entangled so much with the talons and coupled with the medications she was on, bled heavily from the head and died of blood-loss, slipping and falling in her own blood at the bottom of the stairs. Why go upstairs? To get a towel, perhaps. Why not get Michael? She may have wanted to get the towel first, not thinking straight already. It's horrific no matter what happened, but you said it very well when you suggest specialists in raptor behavior and forensic pathologists familiar with avian-caused trauma should be the ones to analyze this theory.

[@whatisinanameanyway7356]

Completely agree. I'm Swedish living on the countryside and we don't have your large owls here... but our small owls for sure can cause enough damage to make someone trip, fall and hit their head if circumstances are bad. We had a lady killed by a mama moose a few years ago. City people just doesn't get how intimidating wild animals can be. I could totally see an unexperienced person become hysterical by an aggressive owl mama.

[@ybrueckner5589]

Jeanette Waverly I think somebody wrote a whole book about that I’ll theory you can find it if you Google it I’ll bet it was very well presented and very possible we should send it to Dr. Grande

[@jeanettewaverly2590]

Ynes Brueckner Thanks! I’ll check it out. The poor doctor is being outflanked by us nature freaks, lol.

[@xekilroy]

Excellent video. You are a very good at this. Brief, concise, outlining everything, showing the evidence for and against well, and analyzing/concluding a variety of things.

[@whatisinanameanyway7356]

Here in Sweden we had a similar case a few years ago. A female didn't arrive home in a timely manner, police was called and she was found bludgeoned to death along a forest path she used to hike. The hubbie was ofc blamed and arrested but as time passed it became obvious he could not have done it. Finally the police and prosecutors had to accept the fact that she had upset a female moose with moose babies and was attacked, fell and got killed by the mama moose.

[@otrame]

I have no trouble believing that. I lived in Anchorage for three years and learned that most of the time moose just ignore humans, even when they are walking around downtown eating flowers out of the flower pots. They completely ignore people, cars and even dogs. However, during rutting season and when moms have babies, you had better stay away from them.

[@bettireagan]

otrame1 r

[@vivienleigh4640]

Yeah! I remember that one (Varför skriver jag på engelska - störtlöjligt 😂 )

[@faithworldleader6891]

I thought the moose was drunk from eating fallen fermented fruit. Or is that another murdering moose case?

[@jameshuntsman6046]

Wow, your right the similarities in both cases are remarkable close.

[@silviaesilvia]

Small owl feathers and pine needles? So he used a tree branch...I appreciate very much how you stressed on the fact that no matter how someone reacts, people will always see guilt in it.

[@TheXanneXanneChannel]

😳 a branch the size of a blow poke. Easy to burn that evidence. Omg u could be right! I don’t remb in the documentary mentioning pine needles but if there were that makes sense. Gah 😩 Cant ppl just “thou shalt not kill” ppl?

[@TheRealBamboonga]

Can we get an OCEAN analysis of the owl? My bet is that it'll score high in the Neuroticism category...

[@duraniegal79]

OMG!!! You took me out describing the "murderous owl!" 😂😂😂😂 The deadpan way you delivered it! Pure genius!! 🤣🤣🤣

[@haleyowens4288]

Was it just me or did one of his adopted daughters look IDENTICAL to Michael?

[@janegeorge-john7272]

II thought it was just me that thought so. She is a dead ringer for him, mannerisms and looks. I’m sure this is the reason for the ‘friend’s,’ death and his subsequent adoption of both her daughters.

[@munichgirl2514]

Yep agree...!!

[@eileenw6002]

Yeah I saw that too I think was having affair with both husband &wife neighbors in Germany. His first wife divorced him 2 years after the death of their good friends. Weird Kathleen probably confronted him on the male escort emails and Michael snapped and killed her All around creepy guy and documentary was biased in his favor.

[@aznmochibunny]

@@Lisa-fe5uh His friend's wife.

[@JB-hq7vp]

Yep. He killed that other girl too.

[@teresaboyer5707]

He did the same murder years before in Germany with no owls involved. He had a woman friend of the family who died on a staircase pretty much the same way. He got her life insurance and adopted her 2 daughters.

[@teresahowick5197]

Teresa Boyer not suspicious at all right? Like wtf. And that weird ass ex wife.

[@marzipanhunt2870]

Yes mostly right but he never adopted Martha & Margaret. It was better for him financially to maintain a guardianship status.

[@pou618]

Between Michael, Scott and Drew I'd say never, under any circumstances, marry a man named Peterson.

[@gr122]

Peterson means trouble, all wive killers, just that this one was not pregnant Peterson means trouble, all wive killers, just that this one was not pregnant, but there are more their is also a Christopher Peterson serial killer

[@peterteohaere4986]

Not even Norm Peterson from Cheers lol.

[@jessie0050]

Exactly I just said the same thing 👏no way

[@peoni_ink]

This was such a calming yet comedic analysis. You deliver your jokes with such seriousness I love it

[@onion6foot]

I saw Peterson's EX-wife interviewed by Dr.Oz and I felt there was something very ODD about her. Wondered if anyone else saw this and felt the same way.

[@deborahhegarty791]

Yes, absolutely agree.

[@avv1435]

What do you mean by that? Do you think she has something to do with the murder?

[@notaclue822]

I didn't see it but I saw enough in The Staircase and read a book about it where witnesses described him being abusive and domineering with her.

[@letsgetlit2829]

@@avv1435 she just seems extremely aloof. Like almost brain dead

[@nellygarza1117]

Yes. Very odd! Why is his ex-wife, who lives in Germany always there???

[@chrisk6945]

I was JUST wondering if you had already uploaded today and less than a second later, there you were when your notification popped up! A little freaky, but hey, it's Dr. Grande time!

[@BrainsApplied]

Always at 15.00h ;) (Or at least most of the time)

[@chrisk6945]

@@BrainsApplied That was SO strange. Maybe my brain has gotten used to this timing and I didn't even notice.

[@saralibby9846]

Could you do an episode on the Green Beret Jeffrey MacDonald who went to prison for killing his wife and two young daughters?

[@laureeoday8588]

Yes, I’d love to watch an analysis of that story.

[@patsyjohnson3963]

@@laureeoday8588 I would love to hear the analysis on Jeffrey McDonald who shortly after the murder of his children and wife was having a great time with women and friends. He was working part time in the emergency room at a local hospital close to where I live. There was speculation he had lost a lot of sleep and just lost ground with himself. I can't remember if drugs has ever been mentioned. The whole thing was scary and he is guilty. He was a con artist.

[@jsus4evr]

His son said he was a serial killer. Apparently, he was with pattywhen she died and didn't call 911 right away Also Catherine had a million dollar life ins. And also, he took a PLEA. Innocent ppl don't do that.

[@toddpacker4683]

Yes they do. You’ll do ANYTHIMG to get out of the torture of prison. This just isn’t true

[@superash31]

Where did you read that ? About the son and Patti?

[@winterwilliams3618]

@@superash31 The son posted this long ranting video in January after his mom died of a heart attack and said his dad waited 3 hours (she was in distress) and when the son arrived he immediately called 911 and began CPR. He said in the video that when he went to get her things out of her home that his dad had already took everything, about a million dollars worth of paintings and utensils made out of special metals (can't remember what). But he thinks he killed Kathleen now and believes he let his mother die (She died last year in 2021).

[@superash31]

@@winterwilliams3618 would love to see that video..any idea if it’s still around?

[@superash31]

@@winterwilliams3618 found it on you tube …very revealing but Todd doesn’t come over as a level headed at times. Who knows ..maybe Patti promised her stuff to Michael? She seemed the sensible type to have left a will. And perhaps Patti herself didn’t realise she was having a heart attack for those first hours..it happens. I hadnt realised Patti and Kathleen even knew each other !

[@dwainfisher4119]

One of the only times I've seen grande laugh at his own jokes at the end. You tried so hard but just couldn't help it 🤣

[@KLFaber]

He did it. All you have to do is see the photographs at the bottom of the staircase and see the amount of blood and the smearing of blood on the walls to see that someone tried to clean up the crime scene before giving up on doing so. When a stranger kills a person there is no motive to try to clean up a victims blood. That is why his lawyers fought so hard to suppress these photos as prejudicial.

[@Ameenah1]

think about it if she was attacked by an owl then there would be smears, i have never seen crime scene photos of blood smears like that, it looked like someone struggling to go up the stairs, if he hit her there would have been blood splatters on him his face and shirt

[@swwagner1]

I understand that that victim had a broken bone in her neck typically found in car wrecks and/ or some sort of strangulation that was NOT mentioned in the documentary. I also heard an expert talk about how he believes that Michael was strangling her while banging her head on the stairs which seems more consistent with the crime scene.

[@staceysimons3475]

Sounds more plausible, add the footprint so maybe pinning her down with foot or just stamping on her at some point..that's a sign that the attacker was close to her..I believe he killed her just like the first victim

[@batoullamouri3699]

I believe he grabbed her from her throat and slammed her against the door frame at the top of the stairs which explains the head wounds, the ruptured thyroid cartilage and the mark on the back of her arm. Maybe he threw her down the stairs after

[@anad05]

Wouldn’t she have strangulation marks?

[@lyndajamrozik4786]

Ok hey - I just fell down my stairs last month - I am 59 and I tumbled all the way down and hit the wall at the bottom with my head and right shoulder . There was NO blood - I did have a concussion and many bruises . After this experience, I am CERTAIN Peterson bludgeoned his wife . No way there is so much blood splattered all over and up the wall.