Did Father / Daughter Tragedy Involve Psychosis or Malingering? | John Jonchuck Case Analysis

This video answers the question: Can I analyze the case of John Jonchuck?
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[@JaneDoe-ip5yl]

It boggles the mind how nobody stops the obviously messed up person from being around a child.

[@howiegruwitz3173]

Merica, for me not you

[@Utoobeedoo]

Or, for that matter, obtaining a firearm.

[@bthomson]

The risk of being misunderstood if you try to help is great. People might very well think YOU are the bad guy if you take a child away from a parent! That child may fear you as an unknown. The police are often quick to get the wrong idea in a messy situation. Becoming involved takes both guts and self-sacrifice and few people are willing to chance the trouble and danger.

[@JaneDoe-ip5yl]

@@bthomson great insight. I hope the little girls last thought wasn't "why isn't anyone helping me"

[@awarewolves1712]

@@howiegruwitz3173 What does that mean?

[@Garden366]

I’m amazed at the complete failure of every system, provider, family member or agency John came in contact with and again, the failure of the same to ensure that poor child’s safety. This story was painful.

[@Tsumami__]

That’s Florida.

[@jonaswhite5842]

@@Tsumami__ Jesus lady, have some sympathy and not reduce this innocent girls' untimely murder to a trailer park trope. My heart hurts right now...try and find yours

[@valeriegadsden7898]

@Sheryl Long Such an unfortunate but ooohhh soooo not uncommon & continuing situation for the disenfranchised/marginalized in the USA of which i'm one---senior citizen 😢. The young & elderly are overlooked, discarded & disrespected ❤️🫂🛐

[@rishaa682]

almost every story on here is like that

[@jaymike3302]

@@Tsumami__ Take your Commie propaganda to another board.

[@nafowler]

Maybe it’s just a type of bias based on media covering the stories, but it makes me crazy how many children who are killed are known to child protective services.

[@More13Feen]

Protective services are understaffed even in rich and libraal countries like Swizerland or Belgium. I once had a guy do a little speach where I did my childcare training. We pressured him for awnsers and eventualy he sayed "well, you have about 100 cases per Person, you can maby look out for 4 out of these that are REALY burning, so some of the rest are bound to fall off 🤷‍♀️" he was almost crying.

[@aarondavis8943]

@@More13Feen Yep. It's one of those "we have to raise taxes" deals. Suddenly everyone stops worrying about the children.

[@sayhello5377]

There’s a BIG problem in our country when senators and congressmen earn $174,000 + free health care + housing stipends, constantly go on vacation, and only work part of the year, while social workers have unmanageable caseloads and earn $40,000.

[@rubyattwood]

@@sayhello5377 yes in Canada as well - services like public education and daycare, which, sometimes act as part of child protective services in terms of just having more ability to detect abuse, are chronically underfunded.

[@LioraLand1]

CPS is too busy doing initial interviews with all the non abusive families where “somebody” reported an unfounded concern, to follow up with those families where kids really are at risk.

[@zink9991]

My beloved, nurturing father tragically died when I was six years old. My mother told me numerous times that she never wanted children. It was my dad who wanted kids. She drank excessively to numb her rage. Her rage was physically manifested by repeatedly beating the shit out of me. I lived in fear until I turned eighteen and escaped. I am 67 and still dealing with this trauma. I was diagnosed with depression and it took years to get the meds right. Mother lived to be 95(!). Sometimes I believe she just wanted to mentally torture me by sticking around so long. I’m so glad that early childhood abuse is finally being recognized as a cause for mental health issues in adulthood. It bodes well for all the children suffering at the hands of seriously ill adults.

[@ferrreira]

It was never your fault. You deserve to be happy! My heart goes out to you ❤ warm greetings from Brazil 🇧🇷

[@zink9991]

@@ferrreira thank you! You’re a sweetie ❤️

[@maryannbrown9952]

I can’t imagine the child’s fear when she was thrown over the bridge. Imagine the guilt the attorney had for not keeping Phobe,

[@charliechurch5004]

How old was she??

[@charliechurch5004]

She should feel guilty

[@Jsatchel2010]

If she did not want the responsibility, she should have said Yes and then called the authorities to take the girl into safety.

[@DayC122]

@@charliechurch5004 Five years old.

[@loubellissima]

@@Jsatchel2010hindsight is 20/20

[@michellsmith4693]

Poor little girl. She must have been so scared. This is heartbreaking.

[@joemunguia1228]

My God, this is just one of the worst & scariest of crimes I have ever heard .. that poor little girl indeed 😔 this really broke my heart.

[@broncotia3125]

Mine as well 💔😭. Poor poor baby girl.

[@JohnDoe-yj5ng]

What pisses me off is that the cop did NOTHING TO STOP IT!

[@broncotia3125]

@@JohnDoe-yj5ng I agree but at the same time the whole situation must have been shockingly quick and I can't imagine trying to assess it all in a few seconds or minutes. Its just awful it had to get to the bridge b4 authorities stepped in 😔

[@JohnDoe-yj5ng]

@@broncotia3125 So tackling him to the ground, shooting a warning shot to scare some sense into him, shooting him at the knees to mame him? You don't think, you act. Too much thinking was going on.

[@davidbrienlantry8760]

"Functionally isolated from safety." Four words that left me speechless.

[@susansandler8429]

I was a social worker in Child Protective Services in the 70s and 80s. The negligence of the “professionals” is incomprehensible and deeply disturbing.

[@jaymike3302]

If the parent hasn't harmed the child before, there's not much that can be done.

[@Sharpe1502]

Yeah, it’s weird. CPS in my state routinely removes kids from homes with domestic violence being the reason. I wonder why the danger wasn’t considered high.

[@jaymike3302]

@@Sharpe1502 Probably because there was no violence.

[@kevinc809]

@@jaymike3302 yes there was Jay. But even without violence there was clearly a danger considering the mans record and current behavior. I spent years trying to get my son out of a terrible situation until 1 judge actually gave a shit and saved him. They don't care, they really don't.

[@jaymike3302]

@@kevinc809 I don't recall Dr. Grande mentioning any mistreatment of the child in this case before the murder.

[@cassandrareedy7369]

So many people had the chance to save her. He asked for the attorney to take her, went to churches, and a friend.

[@maddieb5787]

I live in Florida and this case gets me so upset. Right now my heart is pounding and my hands are shaking and that's just from hearing the details again. I cannot imagine what Phoebe must have felt. My heart breaks for her and what she went through as her unhinged father dragged her around from place to place, driving like a manic I'm sure the entire day. I doubt he even did the bare minimum of stopping to feed her or letting her use the restroom. It never ceases to amaze me to hear about all the people who had an opportunity to step in but didn't. Most people write it off as none of their business or are worried about offending someone if they're wrong and overreacting or they just simply fail to realize the gravity of the situation. I feel for the lawyer who actually did call the police and the DCF hotline. I'll bet she's relived that day 100 times in her mind, regretting not keeping Phoebe with her. I agree it's impossible to think John isn't mentally ill because of how far back his documented issues go but he certainly planned on killing her. Maybe he was so desperate to be baptized that day in case he was killed while being apprehended during or after murdering his daughter. Or maybe he thought about killing himself as well but wanted to be baptized first. Most likely he was just manic and delusional and he wasn't thinking that deeply about it. I hope we all keep this tragedy in the back of our minds if any of us ever come across a person we suspect could be a danger to a child they have with them and step up and do whatever it takes to protect them. You could really save a life.

[@cameronrobinson3933]

You said it all 😔

[@kristentrep5038]

This is so sad! My understanding of this case was that John wanted Phoebe baptized before he killed her. He knew what he was going to do to her, but wanted her to go to Heaven. My guess is she wasn’t baptized yet. The terror that little girl must’ve felt is horrible! I do hope the attorney found a way to forgive herself for not keeping Phoebe that day. She tried her best to get her help, and I agree!, she must replay this fateful day in her head endlessly!

[@saskialolita]

@@jack-a-lopium wtf are you talking about / who are you talking to???

[@chrissearer1896]

Yes. However, No good deed goes unpunished. I have no regrets and a heart full of love! Saving 2 in FL abduction is it’s own reward! ❤️🎶🎼🇺🇸🦅

[@lindaschultz7900]

Sometimes foster care is worse. The whole system is broken. This country cares more about cars than children. I was also a victim of child abuse. The lesser of two evils was to stay with my abusive parents instead of foster care.

[@thelocalmaladroit8873]

“Mental health system failure on so many levels “! Sad story all around. Thanks Dr G.

[@elizabethwarman9028]

Amen, I was misdiagnosed Bipolar

[@hshsgdggge]

@@elizabethwarman9028 I'm sorry you had to go through that. Misdiagnoses can be very destructive and traumatizing, and are too often overlooked. If you don't mind me asking, were you later on correctly diagnosed with borderline personality disorder or something else?

[@theninelivesofsandy9773]

My husband just graduated with his Masters in SW and accepted a position in Albuquerque, NM at the Veterans Hospital. He watches your videos all the time and you were the inspiration in his desire to help others. He will be attending USC for his Ph.D in Psychology next year.

[@Hayhayitsmaay]

I'm so glad he's going to ABQ! I'm an RN in the next svc area to the east and we need MSW's who truly care SO BAD tell him to please hold on and don't walk away 😭

[@bthomson]

Sandy - What good news! Please let your husband know that we (I'm sure many commenters of this video) give thanks for his profession choice and wish him well!

[@saracurrens2651]

As another ABQ resident kudos to your husband. This city and state is in desperate need of all mental healthcare workers. I’m a retired psych nurse and have seen the toll of not having adequate care givers.

[@theninelivesofsandy9773]

@@Hayhayitsmaay Thank you so very much for your nice comment. I was a nurse for 20 years (only an LPN) and recently changed my career path so my husband could go back to school. He is excited about joining the Raymond G Murphy team. He starts his clinical supervision there next month. We are currently looking at apartments and house shopping for the move. We live in Farmington. He applied to seven hospitals, all veteran oriented. All seven wanted him but he said Albuquerque was in desperate need. So that's where he chose to go. I've heard so many negative things about Albuquerque, but I am excited to come there. I actually like that area.

[@theninelivesofsandy9773]

@@bthomson Thank you. He is going to be an amazing counselor. He just received his state license, the one before his supervisory hours are completed. Then he can become independently licenced. I'm so proud of him.

[@nancyeaton731]

I remember this are and it was so upsetting when it happened. The off-duty officer was severely traumatized after watching the child being thrown off the bridge and then not being able to rescue her in time, because it was too dark to see and too difficult to get down to the water. He’s probably still suffering. It was also very cold that night, that little girl had to be terrified. The system completely failed everyone here, but they are understaffed, undertrained, underpaid, and have little legal latitude to do much of anything without being liable. Mental health services and family services continue to fail the public, and so a lot of innocent people are still harmed and killed as a result.

[@Tcoldsteel]

“Attractive, in a Jay Leno kinda’ way”, has to be one of the most insulting things I’ve ever heard.

[@howiegruwitz3173]

Love you Jay

[@andysommerlot5123]

IKR?! Sprayed my phone with OJ when he said that!

[@spazmonkey3815]

Jay Leno is not strange looking, This boy was out of this world strange looking. What's with the downturned mouth?

[@didamnesia3575]

Hope you're doing well Dr G. Please take a vacation and recharge or do whatever you need to take care of yourself.

[@11cabadger]

You do seem a bit more "subdued" than usual. Please do take some time off if you need it; we'd rather know you're wearing those snazzy shirts on a balmy palm-lined 🏖️ than an oversized flannel nitegown on a dingy double 🛏️ with Bella fretting beside you.🤧

[@ouiouibien_1979]

Yeah..how much i like 2 watch our sarcastic funny Doc..he seems to upload non stop. He has kids and a wife..i think they need vacation and time off 2😜👍💯

[@Kattakam]

Professionals like Dr G. vacation is his work. Cheers

[@didamnesia3575]

@@Kattakam what?

[@jaymagini9420]

@@Kattakam no

[@ijaripanju3408]

"The computer did not survive" and " she found him attractive in a J Leno kinda way ....the two became romantically involved..." reasons why Dr. Grande's content continues to be insightful and hilarious . I know the second quote was in part the woman's quote, but it's his delivery in his follow up as well as his delivery in the computer quote that make me Crack up most of the times . Anyhow I hope he doesn't stop adding his brand of humor . 👍👌

[@Thebigboram]

You forgot I guess he graduated from the Catch-22 school of psycho analysts...😂

[@BackyardButcher]

Wow.. this case is horrifying.. Jon was batshit crazy! Poor Phoebe...

[@MotoZero39]

“The computer did not survive” lol absolutely love your cold tone.

[@anzorisly]

So sad that the daughter had to pay the consequences of a sick person! Poor Angel may she Rest In Peace.

[@ZYX84]

🪁🌹🪁🌹🪁🌹🪁🌹🪁🌹🪁🌹

[@kevinc809]

And her mother for knowingly letting him take her. She knew it was a death sentence for her child.

[@billymanners5752]

Congratulations the funniest psychiatrist on KZbin just subtle humor really makes me laugh during certain segments of the show. And you do it with such a deadpan style. I'm not sure if Vegas is calling, but you are entertaining.

[@sinew1000]

He’s not a psychiatrist sir.

[@billymanners5752]

@@sinew1000 oh my God thank you for clarifying that for me what a horrible mistake I made. thank you so much .

[@ampa4989]

​@@billymanners5752 I'm not even sure why he calls himself Dr.

[@SgtPepper333]

@@ampa4989PhD in psychology

[@sandilou2U]

I believe nearly every case I have heard of involving the murder of a child, the case included the complete failure of child protective services and in many instances the case also included a long history of or obvious signs of mental illness in the murderer which had not been properly diagnosed or treated. It sounds as though this guy was not stable at any point in his life. I don't know what could have been done but something should have. Do involuntary mental health hospitals still exist? I mean the type where the patients are contained and required to participate in treatment. It seems all of the ones that I have heard of just let the patients walk out and they throw up their hands and say there was nothing they could as if it exonerates them responsibility. I am not suggesting this guy should have been locked up, doped up, and zipped up in a straight jacket his entire life. Okay, maybe I am saying that.

[@saythankyou111]

Yes. Cops can do a 5150 hold for a couple days…all they need is proper witnesses of crazy behavior.👀🇺🇸

[@SmegInThePants]

They have such hospitals where I live. Dunno how it is elsewhere in the country. But they are very few in number and horrendously understaffed. So its almost impossible to get someone into one. Technically, the police where I live can in lieu of arresting you, put you up in a mental institution for 72 hour evaluation, at which point if you are diagnosed with something, you can be detained for treatment in the institution for up to 99 days, renewable indefinitely upon further reviews at the end of each period, even if you've committed no crime. So 'warning signs' can technically be enough to put you away, before you've gone too far and committed a crime. Police are kind of forced to be reactive, while a mental institution can be far more pro-active, relatively speaking. Something has to have happened to put you in for review still, but it doesn't necessarily have to have been a crime. Back in the day there used to be a lot of mental health facilities, the mental health facility to prison ratio was very different from today. That had its own issues and horror stories associated with it, many such an institution was shut down over controversy. But we sort of threw out the baby with the bathwater when it came to mental institutions and now have severe problems due to not enough mental institutions greatly limiting the options of police when dealing with a call. Today its mostly prisons. If you have a mental health issue you are much more likely to end up in a prison today. At least in my state where the mental institutions just don't have room or staff. Which is bad in several ways. 1. the person doesn't get appropriate treatment 2. the prison staff has a hard time dealing with them as they aren't trained or equipped or qualified for dealing with mental health issues so they categorize the prisoner as a trouble prisoner and mete out harsh institutional treatment which was designed to incentivize uncooperative criminals not people with mental health issues, which probably does nothing to rectify the behavior. If someone is schizophrenic for instance, giving them an institutional penalty designed for an uncooperative criminal isn't going to cure their schizophrenia. I've read stories of staff accidentally killing such prisoners, though that of course is an extreme example of how far the issue can go. 3. When the person gets out of prison they are likely to be no better, perhaps far worse, due to lack of any treatment, and with their now criminal history are likely to end up in prison again the next time they have to deal with authorities, being even more likely to be forced into the wrong system. The arresting officer will see the prison history and be less likely to even consider a mental institution and rather go along w/what prior officers did. 4. Since its prisons that have the beds available, the person has to commit a crime before they are taken out of society, so 'warning signs' mean nothing before they've actually committed an arrest worthy crime, whereas a warning sign might be enough to be committed in a mental institution before something awful happens, if only they had the beds available. Mental institutions, accordingly, are better equipped legally to stop a crime before it happens, they have the authority to be more pro-active, relatively speaking, rather than re-active like prisons are designed to be (we wait until after you commit a crime to put you in prison).

[@garbo2232]

Yes. People can be involuntarily admitted to any psychiatric facility. In order to be admitted in this way, the patient is usually ordered to go to one if the police respond to reports of you threatening to hurt yourself or others. Patients that end up in the hospital from self-harm or attempts are usually also involuntarily admitted. CPS has the authority to require parents to seek out mental health treatment. My mother had to attend out-patient services with a facility and therapy consistently with a personal therapist. I am not too surprised their case worker dropped the ball this poorly. CPS is so severely under-funded that many of their case workers are completely unqualified and incompetent. They are also usually short-staffed, so many have huge caseloads that make it extremely difficult to keep up with their clients. If these caseworkers were being paid more, had higher qualifications, and only had a handful of cases to oversee, more children in danger would get the attention and help they so desperately need to survive.

[@jamesb.9155]

So sad the off-duty cop was right there and couldn't save Phoebe . . .

[@isle.of.misfits]

I live in this area and drive over this bridge every day. I always think of that poor baby. 💔

[@sjedor2905]

Awful story. I don’t why “parents” kill their children, or at the least, hurt them. My heart hurts for Phoebe…

[@MsSwitchblade13]

I'm speechless. It's beyond my ability to comprehend the level of incompetence demonstrated by every single person who saw John for what he was and did NOT immediately submit a complaint to DCF or the police. If enough people would've reported him, they would've had to do something. Everyone has the blood of that poor little girl on their hands, except for the lawyer. They tried more than once and they had only met John ONCE!

[@ljeans531]

You shouldn't be suprised, this is why we need to vote for progressive candidates that want to ACTUALLY FUND and investigate CPS. Republicans wanna take that money fro personal bonuses. And never save or rescue our children.

[@AMM3.]

But it's 3am... doesn't matter! Any time is Grande time!!

[@spymonkey39]

So sad. Even sadder to think how very damaged that already girl was as she fell.

[@tron.44]

What a devastating example of mental health problems running rampant. Great job on covering this most heinous of cases that child services let fly over their heads. Thanks again, Dr. G!

[@TheSaraskye]

The Grande soothing voice and light hearted humour X!

[@briangarrow448]

I am old enough to have seen the incredible swings in public opinion on the enforcement of child protection statutes from being “too invasive and government interference with families” all the way over to the other extreme of “the child’s best interests are always served by keeping them with the (dysfunctional) family.” Sadly, the real victims are the children who are tennis balls of society trends and political point making.

[@lostandfound5145]

That whole story was sad from start to finish. Poor little girl never had a chance. So many failures, so many. It’s so unbelievably sad. And so unbelievably common.

[@messrsandersonco5985]

Child service failures happen regularly but they are NOT common (try looking up the difference in a dictionary). Nonetheless, every failure is a loss to society, and represents a series of failures by our social systems. And so you're not blinkered by your own society - just be aware that not all countries HAVE a child protective system!

[@jimig399]

@@messrsandersonco5985 maybe the countries that are without child protective services are better off without it. That way they have no disappointment or heartache over the cases in which it not only failed to have a positive impact on a family but had a profoundly negative and destructive impact upon a family. Those cases are are more common then the cases that have any positive impact. Child services has one tool in it's tool box. One. I'll let you guess which one it is. It's not a very effective tool I can tell you from personal experience. Narcissists are quick to play the victim and rally people around them to validate their false claims because they are adept at imposing themselves upon people. It's what they do at their core all day long. It was the hardest part of being a narcissist to completely expell from me. It took several years of catching myself. Of being determined to overcome my natural instinct and to redirect it into positive affect. I overcame being a narcissist. Well I overcame the not so nice parts like lacking empathy, being destructive, lacking accountability, manipulating/isolating/excluding people to control and create my own power. I was sick. I still retain many helpful Narcissistic traits. I'm a performer and a showman. I'm a showoff and I'm really good at things that impress most people. I'm a musician and a perfectionist. I'm straight talking, all seeing, sharp shooting, hard riding, hard fighting, good loving, passionate and effective communicator with everything I deem worth doing. It's not for everyone. I'm all positivity all day long. I can do something wrong a thousand times over trying to get it just right and that's a regular day for me. Although at my age now I enjoy a certain amount of free time because of how efficiently I get thru my days related to experience with age. People tell me regularly that I make things look easy. That I did something like a "boss". And honestly I think am a boss and have earned that title thru my accomplishments. But even with all of my wisdom and experience of having been a narcissist myself once...I was trapped and abused by a narcissist for many years. It's an easy thing to end the victim of a narcissist. Almost natural you might say. Understandable why it's so difficult to discern the truth in a family dynamic. But child services does some good. Just not all good. I understand they are necessary. I just don't think you should be defending them as you did and being so critical of someone who was just giving their 2 cents. You can offer a dissenting opinion without being critical and injurious to the opposition. At least in polite company of course. Not all being equal obviously. 🖕😼

[@jenniferholden9397]

You can see the rage in his face, it must be awful to feel so angry at everyone. It’s like hes displaying twisted anger/love en

[@zenawarrior7442]

Agree. His pictures are creepy, could be used in movies as scary. They show an angry and disturbed guy so clearly.

[@girlwheels]

I once knew someone intimately who has schizo-affective disorder, the bipolar came with mixed episodes. He was committed a number of times. Each time he was differently diagnosed. That's a hard diagnosis to pin down, because all of the symptoms have to be seen by the same professional, or a group that communicates openly with one another. His demeanor was flat, as in flat affect. He had all of the energy of a person having a manic episode, but with a depressed mood. Usually this throws people for a loop, because he wouldn't look emotional, but felt emotional. He had several psychotic episodes, but they were not nearly as scary as his mixed episodes, where he would be talking about these horrible dreams he'd had before the episode. He never hit me. He never physically hurt me at all. But since I was in the dreams and bad things were happening to me in the dreams, I was very scared. His symptoms included high and low energy levels, going long periods (several days) without sleep and not missing it, weight loss and gain, one psychotic episode that I can remember, prescription drug abuse, and several suicide attempts. I saw no indication at any time that he didn't know right from wrong. For what it's worth, animals loved him; I never saw him be unkind to an animal. The difference I see between John and my friend was the propensity for violence. When my friend was describing his dreams, his voice sounded sad, like he didn't want to be telling me about them, but he felt like I ought to know. That shows a conscience. I don't see any indication of a conscience in accounts of John's behavior. He was candid, if cryptic, about his plans, with no bother about whether what he wanted to do was wrong; this included hitting his girlfriend, even after her MS diagnosis. I guess revealing his intentions could have been a cry for help. It's hard to know with someone who has a flat affect. It sounds like he didn't want his plans derailed, and might have been using being cryptic to keep from being stopped. This shows at least some understanding that others might consider what he was planning on doing as wrong. To me, that qualifies as knowing right from wrong by society's standards, thus sane enough to stand trial. He may have thought he was King Arthur. He might have thought he was above the law. But killing a little girl, HIS little girl, was just a means to an end. So, it wasn't just schizo-affective disorder, there was something else going on.

[@donprice9050]

That poor kid must have lived her whole life in fear.

[@Schiffon]

Very early and I’m grateful to see this horrific happening reported by only you, Dr Grande 👍 This poor child, once again failed by her father, the system and I only wish I could have known and helped, somehow.

[@ZYX84]

😔🪁🌹🪁I hope she’s surrounded in beauty and joy!

[@MoonFella]

@@ZYX84 she died.

[@MoonFella]

@@ZYX84 There is not much joy being thrown in the water and drowning with broken bones. The police did a terrible job here. Police in US usually unload their clips on a suspect for moving a finger in the wrong way. Yet here the dude was able to throw his daughter over the bringe and drive away.

[@notpub]

Fangrrl

[@puspavelai8353]

I choked! LOL! "Despite this, DCF kept indicating, *the danger level* in the family home - was low." Actually, for them, the "danger level" is measured by what happened to that Computer John had thrown over the balcony previously? Result: *"The Computer did not survive"* ;D

[@memyself4431]

Can’t sleep crew!! ❤

[@lf9341]

Yep.

[@thelocalmaladroit8873]

I’m in!

[@miraclenichols4332]

What an unbelievably sad story!! I can’t imagine!! In my job ran into a situation where a puppy was thrown from a bridge, I did get it out of the water & it was Ok but that made me absolutely furious!! Not diagnosing anyone, just my opinion, of course but that is a sick person to even think of such a thing-

[@ember1794]

"It's hard to find one action by any of the mental health professionals in this case that was actually helpful" So sad 😳😭!!

[@bthomson]

The mental health field is not an exact science. Each individual person is an enigma and there is no easy way to treat mental illness. Therapy often takes years even if the person is willing to put in the work!

[@ember1794]

@@bthomson I am all for the mental health field, which makes this even more shocking to me - a layperson is the only one who actually sees the signs and tries to act 😳

[@pierre6625]

Hello Dr.Grande, I truly think your theory and opinion are spot on. There were many errors done by a lot of people. So sad that one child was entrapped in something she had no way out without adults helping her. Very very sad. Best Regards and thank you for the hard work. ❤👍

[@janinemccartha1811]

Hi Dr. Grande. So angry that the mental healthcare weren't more involved in that case. Children miss out on so many experiences in life because of abuse & definitely deserve a healthy life, not abusive, or dysfunctional. Your analysis was very on point & interesting. Hope you're having a relaxing & good evening. Peace & take care, love, Janine Smiley😀🙂😎🤩😍☕🍩☕🍫☕🍯🥧🆒️💯❗

[@y_not]

This is one of the more heartbreaking cases which is saying something. Even in retrospect, the system had many chances to have realistically prevent this tragedy.

[@elle7268]

This is my first time learning about this case. Brillant, balanced, and insightful analysis. Take very good care Dr. G🥇

[@raquellofstedt9713]

I have worked with children who start out like this but very, very few end up continuing such behaviour. Interrupting the cycle early and making sure the parents (John´s parents) are monitored and recieve support in parenting is key in making sure the developing peronality traits don´t continue heading down a destructive track. Sometimes it doesn´t work. However, it requires a lot of work and parents who are willing to stick around.

[@mikeballard8404]

What about no parents. Modern America.

[@notpub]

Sober parents you mean?

[@raquellofstedt9713]

@@notpub Yep. Part of monitoring and giving support.

[@browniehendricks3726]

I blame all the people who came in contact with John and this poor little girl. They all failed her. They should be held responsible under the law. A horrendous case. Who agreed with me? What punishment should be given to each one?

[@allinaday9882]

@To Brownie Hendricks It seems like you care about John’s daughter. I am confused about who betrayed and abandoned him and his daughter. He was an adult male with all rights confered on adult men. I am not being smart. I want to see the situation the way you do. 🙏

[@CBrown86]

The system allowed this babygirl to be murdered. She should have been with her mother and she should have been provided resources and help to get her back from a violent man. They killed her just as much as he did

[@eadweard.]

Always spend.

[@misserica5524]

What a tragic case all around. Poor Pheobe.❤ As always, your content is top notch, Dr. Grande.🌵

[@susansandler8429]

Saw news report that CPS worker was suspended for 3 days for not referring case for investigation when mother reported his abuse of child.🤬🤬

[@lesleyarango3773]

I've got to rewatch this just so I can count how many mugshots John has.

[@CPegRun]

The catch 22 school of mental assessment!!!! Hahaha!! I absolutely love the dry way your present your humour!!!! Hahahaha!!! Aside from being brilliant at what you do, you’re so clever with your humour as well!! I truly adore your channel!! Thank you!!

[@ireallydontknow8616]

This whole town is ridiculous ridiculous. DCF workers the police what have you.. Such senseless tragedies could be avoided if people would just actually do their job

[@archipiratta]

Spare a thought for the poor LEO who witnessed John toss his little girl over the bridge. Simply harrowing!

[@rickjames5998]

maybe the cop said ayy lmao

[@verbalkint1770]

He could have saved her.

[@flamingsickle]

Let’s see, a person known to be a concern and is being followed stops on a bridge (and there’s really only one reason to stop your car on a bridge) and gets out, refuses to follow the officer’s commands, gets his daughter out of the car, and carries her to the side of the bridge. The officer already had his weapon out and trained on the guy, so there would be no delay using it. Spare a thought? That officer was basically complicit and let the whole thing happen.

[@zenawarrior7442]

@@flamingsickle Disagreed. He shoots him asap he could have thrown her, fell on her, shot her. They prob had no idea he would do that, happened fast. Not their fault. If they shot him, then get blamed for shooting. Sometimes you have to access situations and they turn out bad fast. I've been on many ride alongs with cops and it's easy to judge their decisions when we aren't there.

[@flamingsickle]

@@zenawarrior7442 That would be the case for a car randomly stopping on a typical road. However, on a bridge the only reason someone deliberately stops (and doesn’t listen to officer commands, so mechanical breakdown is ruled out, as is taking pictures since no camera or phone was being used) is to jump off or to at least threaten to do so. Bringing a child into it then makes it imminent murder-suicide. For an officer not to recognize that is baffling.

[@bthomson]

It is very evident from the comments in this video that your fans are very involved with you! They care about your well-being and health! How amazing to have generated that level of consideration in this off- hand world! You are really special!

[@RuhrRedArmy]

I think we can all agree that the highest form of attractiveness is attractiveness in a Jay Leno sort of way.

[@andrewvanorden2336]

Wow this was really sad and depressing. My daughter is about the same age as his daughter was in the picture. I'm imagining how that little girls life must have been and how terrible her death was and its making me physically ill. This is why we have the death penalty

[@grumpyoldlady_rants]

Wow, the system really stopped the ball on this one. How sad. On a side note, I once stuck one of those keys from csnned Ham/sardines (this was the 1950s) into sn electric outlet. It was quite shocking. I learned my lesson.

[@Danielle-nz9tn]

“Michelle said she found him attractive in a Jay Leno kind of way” (3:30). That statement along with that particular mug shot of him really had me chuckling for some reason. Absolutely nothing about this story was funny, however. Such a sad case and abhorrent failure of the Child protective agencies.

[@annalisegiovanni7032]

Good Morning Dr. Grande🌞 Thank you for the new video! It was so extremely awesome to be able to have a video of yours to watch while I'm getting ready in the morning. You're the best🥰

[@wrmlm37]

Too many failures to list. So many of the individual failures sound like these people were "malingering", on the job. Terrible outcome. TY, Dr. Grande.

[@RadiUzunova]

Absolute failure of the system in any level!

[@soyandoat4106]

Thank you so much for your video! Please get all the break that you need! You have been cranking out so many good content that I could not even keep up loll This case is just so sad. The DCF could have stopped this multiple times

[@ZaneZog]

Just curious, but could fetal alcohol syndrome cause this behavior? Also, years ago, so called 'crack babies' were known to become dangerous and uncontrollable.

[@pxxxbxxx1981]

John doesn't have the facial features I've seen in people with fetal alcohol syndrome and the girls I knew with it were also developmentally delayed but not badly behaved. Could be prenatal drugs but seems like DNA + exposure to violence as a toddler flips a switch per that TedTalk on psychosis.

[@itsruckaswife7036]

isn't that a fact about crack babies? I thought they were pretty much guaranteed to have behaviour/anger issues throughout their lives when born to a crack addict. Is that not the case?

[@kimrisnear3866]

He has the mental/behavioral problems and the facial features of fetal alcohol syndrome...parents should be held criminally responsible for the intentional harm their drug use causes the unborn child...

[@zuglymonster]

Please look it up "crack babies" was a myth. Fetal alcohol syndrome is very real though

[@karenengelhardt1610]

He doesn't have FAS facies, but he might be a crack baby.

[@AlinJapan]

Probably unrelated but, in Japan, salt is placed outside a front door in order to keep demons away. Perhaps other cultures have this myth.

[@angelinparadise7282]

I really like the humorous inputs Dr Grande makes. It helps me not to get completely torn apart by humanity mental situation

[@pinkarate1]

That's it! You are SO right! I could never articulate what it was about Dr. Grande and his dark humor that make these atrocious stories both compelling and educational. Thanks!

[@PinkyPuff69]

If I were that custody attorney who experienced his behavior with his little girl in her office that day....I would be haunted by the decision I made for the rest of my life. She did the right thing to call the police and Child Protective Services (after he left.) But it was way too little and much too late to save Phoebe. Why she refused his request to "take care of her for a few minutes" that day, we'll never know. But it would eat me alive.

[@majakolonja4266]

It wasn't her job to be taking care of someone's child at her job.

[@cynic150]

I hope that mental health doctors and methods have evolved and improved since then. The case often seems to have hinged on whether or not John was suffering from mental health issues. If something had been done to help John early on, perhaps his daughter would still be alive today.

[@THE-id1by]

"if something could have been done to help John early on" seems like a pretty tenuous thread to hang that little girl"s life on. There were dozens of chances to help her. It just didn't happen. It seems like people cared about her just not enough. Don't understand why the cop didn't shoot him. He was talking crazy. Unresponsive to commands. Crossed over to the other side of the car to open it in defiance of repeated commands. I can't understand why the cop let him open the door. If he saw the little girl in the backseat he should have shot to prevent him taking her hostage and/or using her as a shield. He did both. And if he didn't see her he would have been justified under the circumstances to prevent him access to possible weapons in the car.

[@makeshift_battlefield_music]

I really don't understand the philosophy of waiting until someone hurts someone before their mental health problem is taken seriously. So much violence could be prevented if there was a different approach. I knew a guy who was going thru something similar to this videos subject, including the wild religious aspect. He also had to do some really screwed up stuff before he was put in custody for mental health evaluation. It was clear to everyone including the cops that he was mentally unwell months before he did what he did, which fortunately was a lot less serious than murder but still put lives at risk.

[@fightingtosurvive6527]

Thanks Dr grande for another great upload! Take good care of yourself. 🌷🌻

[@j.c.denton2060]

I don't know how someone could be attracted to someone in a "Jay Leno sort of way" but that cracked me up.

[@kevinc809]

Wo Wo Wo! 6:10 how could she let her little child go with him? Too busy getting all tattooed up? I don't think I want to hear the rest. She is responsible too. Sick people. I'll probably be the only one here to put some blame on the mother.

[@MadeByChinkee]

Yep. I cannot imagine a parent would let her/his child go with the abusive parent. But then again, these things happens all the time. I for one was given away by my mother to my paternal grandma, 'coz she cannot leave her then husband who was alcoholic and would let me starve while my mom was working. Poor Phoebe. Both parents failed her. A father who just used her for people to accomodate them. A mother who's too busy living her own sweet life with a new boy. 😕

[@judymurray191]

Kevin C…I am a mother and I agree with you 100%!!! What mother let’s her helpless child be in the care of someone so violent towards her. I put the most blame on her because a mother should protect their child!!! I hope she has some sense of guilt for failing to keep her child.

[@kevinc809]

@@judymurray191 Thanks Judy. That's the first place my thoughts went. Not even a court order of custody which means the ball was completely in her court. The man was obviously sick and dangerous. I can't believe she let the poor little girl go with him.

[@gaerinraj2336]

Psychiatrists failed to diagnose him with psychotic problems when it was obvious. Because of his parental abuse on him. Which led to his abuse and murder of his child.

[@allinaday9882]

As it always does in some way.

[@jenniferholden9397]

I think now that the mental health side know that they haven’t the resources so they just discharge them, they discharge people with mental health conditions who’s illness isn’t treatable. I’m from the UK and once over we felt like we were getting things sorted then too many Conservative governments, who have been selling the NHS off because they have money, they don’t need the NHS also they’ve had their empathy bone amputated. When I started nursing in ‘71 we felt like we were getting somewhere, the whole hospital was run as a therapeutic community, I loved it.

[@redsloane9905]

He was dx with schizoid affective disorder I believe Dr G said.

[@ghadamamdouheskarous]

Poor little girl :(

[@kristis4147]

I lived in Tampa during that time and I couldn’t even cross that bridge it was so disturbing to think about

[@user-cs1un6sp1wRennata]

Excellent analysis Dr. Grande!

[@PurrMore]

I live in Florida and I remember this case very well. I remember not being able to think about it without bursting into tears

[@hannah50353]

My word! Talk about dysfunctional family dynamics 🤦‍♀️ Is it any wonder people’s behaviour goes so awry?

[@TheRealTrueCrimeAnalyst]

“Perhaps this clinician graduated from the Catch 22 School of Mental Health Assessment.” 🤣

[@sbell5702]

I am not an expert by any means, but think I would have seen the first red flag in this whole situation. Most everyone let this guy down in his formative years, but EVERYONE let that little girl down.

[@sharonmontano4924]

Everybody knows salt is THE go to substance for repelling demons

[@THE-id1by]

The blessing of salt in the Catholic Church is used as a sacramental in keeping away demons--thought every one knew that.

[@ddahstan6876]

My Gosh. Poor little girl... just can't imagine how terrified and confused she was during her last moments. RIP Precious Phoebe.

[@Violexie-wb7op]

She declined his generous offer! 🤣🤣🤣

[@Meenadevidasi]

Interesting his obsession with God at some point and a Bible written in a language he couldn't understand. Hearing about these whackos really is helping me to sharpen my skills in dealing with people. And making me realize how lucky I have been some of the whackos I've met. Thanks for all you do Dr. Grande.

[@dannynyman9681]

I appreciate hearing mental health professionals critique the mental health profession...it happens so rarely.

[@robburrows2737]

It's a deplorable failure of safeguarding. I think when it's this obvious the incompetents ought to be charged with manslaughter. That would be a wake up call. Nothing appears to suffice.

[@Kai...999]

I’m early. 😀 I’m actually horrified after hearing the details. 😟

[@linadina1966]

Wow this is so sad, the lawyer really f*cked up. If they thought he was dangerous enough to call the police why refuse to keep the child! I mean he was offering!!

[@Vidikis360]

Hi Dr Grande, I love your videos. Can you look into the Asha Degree case from 2000. She was a 9 year old girl that left home in the middle of the night, and was never seen again. I would really love to hear your analysis for that tragic case.

[@zuglymonster]

I think he just did a video about her!

[@missyskye_sea_land9424]

1st for the first time - wow, what an honor💖

[@didamnesia3575]

I think you're 2nd... still pretty good

[@memyself4431]

@@didamnesia3575 😂

[@jandoel]

It's a little known fact that many home hauntings start with possessed garden snail infestations

[@cassandrareedy7369]

If you had ever met a ghost or experienced a possession you wouldn't enjoy the jokes. The proof is in the pudding. One time when cleaning, a growling came from outside. My friend and I prayed and did the ohm. It ohmed back and laughed. My mirrors shattered and NO BODY was outside. I came to not take these things lightly before this incident while working at Conewago Wernersville a repurposed mental hospital from the time they didn't treat mental and physical disorders compassionately... To say the least. Electroshock shack by the basketball court, rails through the building where they chained them up naked for hose-downs, a kitchen bricked off because a cook hung himself, and MOST importantly a closed circuit camera system I was in charge of monitoring. I have stories that are no joke. Let me know if you want to hear them

[@sunnycatc6491]

Haha hence the salt 🐌🧂

[@eveapple4928]

Children are so vulnerable and need adults to speak up for them without fear or favour. Too often the needs of parents / adults are prioritized over children at a systemic as well as individual level and I just don’t get it. Dr Grande, in due course please would you consider the case of Archie Battersby here in the UK? The behaviour of his mother in these circumstances merits examination to see what learning / insights there are, and I believe an analysis by you would really help to inform the discussion and improve our learning as to how individuals navigate these really difficult situations. Thanks and keep up the good work x

[@katiekarakondis3348]

Carlin once said of the U. S. social system:if you're a fetus you are protected, but once you are born you are f**ked

[@helpyourcattodrive]

Thank you for another great video. I appreciate them al. They’re interesting. :)👀⭐️

[@kellyanni5092]

My gosh I have not heard of this. Thanks Dr. G.😉

[@melfreemans]

I'd like a episode about Fritz Klenner and Susie Lynch. I was boarding my horse at the barn where they were killed. It was a day I will never forget. And my friends husband was the police officer who was wounded by them. The whole thing about how he convinced his father that he was in medical school was bizarre. His father was peculiar also. I believe he diagnosed everyone with MS and "cured" them with vitamin C if I remember correctly.

[@1DuncanBell]

The system breaks down yet again, costing a little girl her life.

[@RebelTheUncanny1]

Quite sad that nobody was astute enough to recognize a literal crazy person with a helpless child in his care, or that if they did, didn't give enough of a damn to prevent a tragedy.

[@rpitt5066]

Such a heartbreaking story.

[@rejaneoliveira5019]

My goodness, this is a horror!💔It’s unbelievable the amount of cruelty in this man. I felt mildly nauseated listening to what he did. Thank you for shading some light in cases that are beyond comprehension.❤️

[@snookieg2409]

I would love to hear your analysis of the Wichita massacre.

[@Thebigboram]

How can Dr G deliver such one liners without a smile or even blinking? The stories are terrible for bedtime listening, but the delivery has me laughing in bed and my wife thinks I'm crazy....🤪

[@Chamelionroses]

I hope people get help before things go so far but only hope they can get the help they need. The mental health stigma is still there and costs to get help is still an obstacle at times.

[@marlinfisher2529]

Dear Dr G, perhaps the spirits were on a low salt diet?