Tomahawk Valley Pan for Roller Lifters, review and install. Pontiac Short Block, part 9

[@FastMonty]

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[@davidwhitman9609]

Excellent! My stock valley pan had a boatload of RTV and was overlapping the stock heads before I removed it. I thought that was normal without a gasket. Glad I watched this as I was just going to use a river of RTV. I even bought a canister tube of Grey to go into my caulk gun.

[@FastMonty]

Ha! Glad I could help... thanks David!

[@GPGTman]

Man, that black valley pan looks great! I'm definitely repainting mine black before installing it.

[@FastMonty]

Agreed! I love it too! Thanks for the comment!

[@nachomax1639]

Ace at PPR did a great job with many parts. I was lucky to have been able to have gone to his shop in San Pedro in the early 2000s and buy many parts from him. I have the gold iridite version.

[@FastMonty]

That's awesome... I wish I knew about them the first time I built this beast. Thanks for the comment!

[@SidewaysTA]

Having seen both examples on your engine, I like these Tomahawk V-pans way better the the flat pans.

[@FastMonty]

I totally agree. I can't wait to give the baffle a go... totally needs it due to me sucking too much oil with the last pan. Thanks for the comment!

[@stevenb3027]

Great job again! i did the exact process on my current build with the valley pan i also had to shave some matarial on the lower side of the intake area due to rubbing issues, i have the wagner valve also but have not fired the engine up as i have a ways tp go on the rest of the build

[@FastMonty]

Thanks Steven... great minds think alike! I can't wait to fire mine too... Thanks for the comment!

[@stevebrown6175]

I’m pretty sure the valley pan bolt holes in the block are drilled through to the cam bore. Depending on how long your bolts are, I think it’s possible to damage the cam bearings bottoming out those bolts. I seen some people replace the bolts with threaded all-rod effectively making studs.

[@FastMonty]

Good point Steve... mine are not through holes. But, I don't know about other blocks from different years. Always a good thing to check. And, yes, using studs would help alleviate that issue. Thanks for the comment!

[@thomashart9304]

My smooth aluminum butler valley pan came with studs specifically because of this issue. Mine is a '71 400 block and the holed are drilled thru.

[@mistermister8998]

I wondered about these! Great video as always Mike!

[@FastMonty]

Thanks, yeah, I can't wait to see how it behaves. See ya next week!

[@billmiller5075]

Great job Mike

[@FastMonty]

Thanks Bill!

[@robertgeary7520]

Great video thank's 👍

[@FastMonty]

Thanks Robert!

[@transam4555]

Like always another awesome video Mike. I was debating if I should use the flat piece valley pan from Butler or the tomahawk. Thanks to this video you have convinced me, we appreciate you taking the time for all these cool videos you make..

[@FastMonty]

Thanks! Yeah, the Tomahawk is the way to go. Can't wait to see how the M/E Wagner valve, and the nice sized baffle behave. Thanks for the comment!

[@transam4555]

@@FastMonty so Mike why did you only use RTV and not the one piece valley pan gasket with the tomahawk cover.

[@transam4555]

I found the answer further down in the comments, thank you Mike!!!

[@FastMonty]

@@transam4555 Good question... I mention it at the 7:30 mark. There are three reasons. One, the pan is not perfectly machined like the block, and may not fit square on the gasket. Two, the gasket increases the height of the pan, which can then interfere with some intake manifolds. Three, that's what Butler does. :) Hope that helps!

[@332ARA]

What paint did you use for the aluminum heads? engine primer? etch primer? sanding prep? How is it holding up?

[@FastMonty]

Good question... I used the same products I used on the Block... here's that video; kzbin.info/www/bejne/nnnQcolog76qjJI It's holding up great!

[@superduty4556]

Have you seen the mod that uses stock LS7 roller lifters and a Ford lifter spider/dog bone setup?

[@FastMonty]

I have... I don't know if the lifter oil band is in the correct location for Pontiac blocks. Let us know, if you know, you know? Ha, ha...

[@superduty4556]

@@FastMonty kzbin.info/www/bejne/nHKuhZtpqrx1qKc Been used with great success. I think there's a forum discussion as well if I can find it.

[@johnmilner7603]

We in Canada would love to buy the Wagner PCV valve but with the dollar exchange rate, it’s way too much since our dollar is worth $0.79 USD.

[@FastMonty]

I hear you... but, probably worth every penny. Maybe start buying some Crypto now, and sell it at the next Bull Run... then you can get a few M/E Wagner valves, and give some away as Christmas Presents? Ha, ha... thanks John!

[@332ARA]

What acid and method did you use to etch the valley pan?

[@FastMonty]

Good question... It's the acid used with the POR 15 application process. Here's that video I did a while back, on how to spray POR 15. kzbin.info/www/bejne/q6Gsp6qLYsifl9k

[@ryandoe9278]

I have the tomahawk one. I saw when you used the other one and I called butler and they told me to just use tomahawk.

[@FastMonty]

Yup, same here... glad I got it. Blowing smoke is not good. lol

[@RMH8520]

Did your old valley pan have the baffle in the neck where the PCV goes? I just sent back the tomahawk one because it would not fit even with modifications. I am now trying the valley pan that butler makes from aluminum.

[@FastMonty]

Good question Bobby... what exactly didn't fit with the Tomahawk? Yes, the old valley pan I had was a Butler pan, with the baffle in the neck. If you go that route, an oil separator will be mandatory, cuz you'll be sucking oil.

[@RMH8520]

@@FastMonty the inner baffle piece wasn’t welded correctly to the outer shell. This caused it to be shifted over to one side when installed. The inner piece was also hitting the block casting at each end so it wouldn’t sit down flat on the block or heads. Mine came from Inline Tube but I’m pretty sure they are all made by the same mfr. I bought one of the original aluminum valley pans 20 years ago and they had no baffle at all. Sucked oil like crazy. I figured Butler had solved this issue by adding that baffle to theirs.

[@FastMonty]

@@RMH8520 was it the pan for roller lifters? The inner half is smaller, which may help. The baffle in the Butler pan doesn't do much, which is why I tried welding on another baffle. Not sure if I made it worse or not... I then asked Butler what to do, they told me to get the Tomahawk. Maybe try the Tomahawk for roller lifters?

[@rickpreusser7509]

looking for a post you had on using a cross over water hose from the back of the engine heads to reduce temperature. Is it possible to do the same to a Chevy engine?

[@FastMonty]

Good Question Rick... I don't know if the same will work for a Chevy. I've never studied the water flow. But, here's my video of the Pontiac cooling trick. (In my opinion, ain't nothing wrong with moving more water around) Let me know what you discover... kzbin.info/www/bejne/eojZh56ofLZ3qdk

[@pontiaco]

no valley pan gasket?

[@FastMonty]

Nope. The risk with a gasket is you have to mount the pan perfectly for no leaks... and it raises the height of it, which could also interfere with your intake manifold. RTV is the way to go. Have fun!

[@mback12000]

Pre egr OE Valley pans fit with roller lifters. You don't need this pan to solve that.

[@FastMonty]

Very interesting... what year did Pontiac change to EGR Valley pans? Thanks for the comment!

[@mback12000]

@Fast Monty's Garage Don't know for sure but pre egr pans look exactly like what you have in the video, including the baffling. That Tomahawk is just a reproduction. Many people use roller lifters with the OE pan. The EGR pans have a much larger external cavity in the center, maybe 6" and square, to accommodate the bottom of the intake manifold. Those typically don't fit roller lifters. IMO, the biggest benefit of the Tomahawk pan is that it's new. It's quite hard to effectively clean a used pan internally, and many people foolishly glass bead them leading to engine damage when the grit comes out later.

[@FastMonty]

@@mback12000 Ahhh, yeah, I'm remembering now. I fairly certain my stock pan hit my new lifters. (That was from 69) My guess is EGR came out in the early 70's, like 73? You know, gas crisis time. But, I also agree buying a new pan is way easier than cleaning an old one. Thanks for the run down!