Top 10 Games Not to Play with Noobs!

Tom, Sam, and Zee discuss the games they'd rather not play with (or teach to) new, inexperienced gamers!
00:00 - Introduction
02:07 - Sam’s #10
03:29 - Tom’s #10
05:19 - Zee’s #10
06:53 - Tom’s #9
07:49 - Zee’s #9
09:22 - Sam’s #9
12:21 - Zee’s #8
14:14 - Sam’s #8
15:45 - Tom’s #8
16:23 - Zee’s #7
18:44 - Tom’s #7
19:41 - Sam’s #7
21:45 - Tom’s #6
23:00 - Sam’s #6
24:34 - Zee’s #6
26:59 - Sam’s #5
29:15 - Zee’s #5
31:26 - Tom’s #5
33:03 - Sam’s #4
34:54 - Tom’s #4
36:57 - Zee’s #4
39:36 - Tom’s #3
41:30 - Zee’s #3
41:52 - Sam’s #3
43:08 - Zee’s #2
44:51 - Sam’s #2
46:19 - Tom’s #2
48:45 - Sam’s #1
50:55 - Tom’s #1
53:09 - Zee’s #1
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[@Leilataj85]

I’m digging these old videos. I think one of my favorite things is how much Tom enjoys Zee. To be clear, Zee cracks me up, but when he makes Tom laugh it reminds me of being with my best friend. ❤

[@rjba02]

As a person who tends to teach folks who are new to board games, while teaching them, I would play in a way where I go out of my way to make the new player 'Take that' by drawing cards, blocking certain actions they might want etc. and not counting points/working towards victory conditions. When I explain what I just did, they're like 'ohhhh' and then they want to use that sort of technique on me or try a variation of it. Plus, at the end, when counting points, the 'Take that' style tends to make the points end up pretty close. If the noob losses, they feel like they could have gotten over the hump with more familiarity and want to play again. If the noob wins, they get so hyped by beating the experienced player that they want to play again. As the experienced player, you enjoy yourself because you don't have to handicap yourself much and you can also practice different strategies/plays/setups while teaching. Win win situation all around.

[@devekut2]

I have taken to making teaching-aides/cheat-sheets for a lot of the games in my collection to alleviate my hesitation to bring them to the table; when it has been (perhaps) months or years since a game has been played, even if you were an expert at it at one time, you'll be rusty at fine elements of the rules. These cheats ensure that I don't miss points when I'm teaching it.

[@formalsyoutube1181]

I play BSG almost religiously -- every time we have a new player, we play a very barebones setup: 5 players, 2 cylon cards. No Sympathizers, no treachery characters, no cylon leaders, no mutineer, no sympathizer. We use the base board, pegasus ship + cylon fleet boards and that's it. We also make them pick their character first and take their turn first. It's much easier to explain the game and THEN explain the sixth man half-traitor cards and weird optional rules than it would be otherwise

[@rubendekemp4752]

Betrayal at House on the Hill is one where the whole experience can fall apart, particularly if the "noob" is the one who is affected by the Haunt. Not everyone wants to be presented with a rulebook and told to go away for 15 minutes to study.

[@hexadecimil]

About Resistance: if you have trouble explaining Resistance to someone, just ask them to set their game prices down and hand them some crayons. All of the stories I've read in these comments, like wow. Just wow.

[@deltari1105]

I have so few people to play with that I will prefer to teach to every noobs than don't play.

[@MVashM]

deltari this is the sad truth. me too.

[@hypnoticsorin8016]

You would think so, but after awhile noobs tend to still be noobish after multiple game sessions. That alone Has turned me off board gaming to a point where I won't play with them. Thank God for Solo games I suppose

[@TheHouseofPanda]

Has your situation changed at all? Are you stateside?

[@steelman774]

Same same... but I love introducing people to the hobby.

[@jd5iron]

You guys were in rare form today! Kudos on the high energy, the comedic timing, and the positive outlook on a negative topic. I loved this.

[@devinology7]

The main problem with Dead of Winter (and other Semi-coop games) is that some players (seemingly Zee for example) just understand the premise differently from the get go, and they just can't ever seem to see it in the way necessary to make it work. In my opinion he gets it wrong, but that is subjective. Other people actually pick it up very intuitively. "Oh I see, we fail if we do not cooperate, but at the same time I have to look out for me and watch my back with traitors. I have to use diplomacy, bluffing, and manipulation to win. It is very much like real life scenarios".

[@normalwaysplayerone2894]

GWT, I find this game so difficult to teach to new players. All the actions are linked, I just find that when I answer one question it makes three more questions. "What does this mean" "Well it means for every conductor you have, you get to push your train forward that many spaces" "What's a conductor? How do I get one? Why do I need to push the train forward" "Well let's explain all the buildings first, I'll get to that." It's not fun to teach.

[@Blinkin27]

Fire & Axe is my go-to game for Noobs...Is simple, straightforward, and the objective cards gives easy directions for new players.

[@gustavoesmeraldo5966]

completely agree with tom on puerto rico. not a problem teaching the game to several new players, but playing the game and trying to be competitive with 1 player that isn't on the level of the others is hell.

[@NikoTeaJay]

I like playing Ghost Stories with newbies. Yes, it results in crushing defeat if I don't override peoples' autonomy. And I don't. It's a cool, dramatic game as you get pummeled. Ghosts bringing more ghosts. Ghosts stealing dice. Ghosts not dying to dice. I've had good results introducing people to the game.

[@jcb3393]

The one thing I hate about teaching ANY game to a noob is that, inevitably, somebody is going to ask "well, what should I play?" I always respond, "that depends on what *you* want to do. I'm not going to explain strategy to you, and I'm definitely not going to tell you what strategies *I* use, so you can beat me right away!"

[@thegamethemovie9605]

I don't teach strategies. If emergent, then that hooks them. So I prefer games that allow this.

[@coreysmilez5148]

just wanted to say i love your shows. the chemistry between you guys is getting so good. keep it up, i'm learning a lot

[@TheShadesOfBlack]

My #1 is Heroclix. Theres 8 colors for powers, 5 different slots in which powers can be on, with each slot and color combo is a different power, then theres special powers which characters have, along with traits, enhanced aiming and movement, various movement, attack, defense, and damage symbols, each representing something entirely different, and then if you can wrap your head around all of that, then theres minor wordings in the rulebook that changes what affects what. "Outwit can counter a power that an opponent possesses", oh well my trait says I "can use this power" not possess, therefore it doesn't work. My power says "I can use poison and when I do my damage is PENETRATING" "Oh well my power says I IGNORE damage not REDUCE it, therefore PENETRATING damage doesnt affect me, although UNAVOIDABLE damage would. But also I have a trait that says when I TAKE damage, which is different from when I RECEIVE damage." Add on the various types of actions, free actions which dont end the start of your turn, movement actions, close combat attack actions, ranged combat attack actions, ranged combat actions, close combat actions, double power actions, power actions. It takes a LONG time to fully grasp a heroclix game, but at this point it's all just common knowledge to me and its my favorite game to play.

[@Wattorok]

For me: Root. Lovely game but it's like having to teach 4-6 people 4-6 different boardgames, each faction plays completely differently.

[@aronkleinsasser970]

Couldn’t agree more. Root it’s one of my fav games, but so rough to teach to new players. The faction variety is what makes the game so great but it’s a pain to teach. I’m lucky because my gaming group likes playing it, but it’s not a game I readily teach to new people.

[@hardyworld]

I'm surprised more war games didn't make the lists (Warhammer, Battlelore, Battleground Warfare, Axis & Allies, etc.) because once you become experienced at any of those games, you really don't want to play with people unfamiliar with the strategies involved in games that typically last for hours.

[@tourguidechuck]

I couldn't disagree more with Resistance and Inish. I brought Resistance to the table with seven people (three couples and myself), my game, we were all noobs to THIS game. The rules were clearly explained and as play began I commented, "Wouldn't it be funny if Chris were a traitor because he's so quiet and unassuming." Everyone looked at me as if to say,"Why would you say that? " To wit I responded,"Oh, did I forget to tell you? This game is ALL about table talk." Hilarity ensued and we played two games in a row! Two experienced fellows from my gaming club introduced me to Inis and my first game I rather grokked the whole thing well AND was in striking distance of victory. I think it depends on the faculties of the noob.

[@BrettBrewer]

A bit surprised to not see Android: Netrunner on this list! That game is a BEAR to learn, let alone teach.

[@JIPunisherIL]

The first 3-way crossover happening on #3?! THE END IS NIGH.

[@TheMacius99]

Nope, T.I.M.E. Stories was their first 3 - way crossover, on best of the year 2015 list, number two. Not counting "Wits and Wagers" on "top ten better games", but such a narrow list shouldn't be counted here IMO.

[@LookAtTheBacon]

He was talking about the list itself, not in general... we all know there have been 3-way-crossovers before.

[@JIPunisherIL]

Like theonlySeraph said, I was talking about this specific list, I know they've happened before. Maybe my wording was a little shitty, my bad!

[@Jeff321]

JIPunisherIL Half Life 3 confirmed.

[@ShadyNetworker]

I actually have the same thing. I *love* this game, but having to explain it? Goddamn.

[@mtnpapa]

It would be nice to see a follow-up video to this where you could discuss how to learn some of these games. I feel like there are different takeaways - play Peurto Rico on the app to learn the strategy, learn hearts before trying Nyet, watch a game of Resistance before playing (I'm winging it now - you get the idea) :) Maybe it's even a whole other list(s) - the top 10 games you should learn to play with other noobs, or the top 10 games you should watch some youtube videos, then try playing...

[@konstantinstepanov5461]

one game that I had a somewhat bad experience teaching new players was Betrayal... its all well and good until the Haunt starts and that new player is the monster... they came back from the other room so confused going - what do I need to do again? and I was like well crap I dont know because we are not meant to... yeah that game only works if the first time you play you take the monster role no matter the rules.

[@konstantinstepanov5461]

I think any bluffing games (like Coup) is difficult for newer players because its easy to tell when they are telling the truth the just look at the cards and say - Im a Captain so blah blah.... but when they are lying they meander, look at the reference card and go - I am aaaaaaaaaaaaan Assassin... Although I have been played by newer players who did that as part of their bluff once they cought on... but its takes experience in board gaming/poker in general to do that. If you are playing with people who never play games, they might take a good 10 games to be able not to give away their own bluff

[@BobHarrison1229]

Great idea! This is one of my favorite Top 10's. Thanks guys!

[@griffglowen5555]

This vid is a classic I’ve watched several times

[@thecouldntcareless]

All of 404 Law Not Found. That game is SO complicated!!!

[@DarknessProphet]

Go/Baduk/Weiqi would definitely make my list. Whether a move is good or not only becomes clear after you've played a lot of games, and it's not something you can explain to new players without bogging down the whole experience.

[@pixxelwizzard]

This was the most entertaining top 10 video I've seen you guys do. Loved it!

[@IndianaGeologist]

This is such a great video. All you guys are hilarious

[@willomalley7619]

Cosmic bit my group hard because I made the mistake of betrayal in the first game

[@christophepinardouze952]

Great to watch the team together !

[@ianoble]

My top 5: 7 Wonders. Terra Mystica. Eclipse. Starcraft. Trickerion.

[@videjoe]

One of your best top 10s ever, thanks guys.

[@johnyuffels4796]

another problem with roll for the galaxy, if you have not played it for a long time, you have to learn it again.(I played it many times and win a lot.)

[@lystic9392]

Kemet because of the 48 (hundred) upgrade cards. Players won't be playing the game so much as stare at descriptions of what all the upgrades can do.

[@VOMITador98]

I played Fury of Dracula with 2 other people, them playing hunters. They have never seen the game before, I just explained the basics in 10 min and we played. They learned on the way and it was perfectly fine, the game has a lot of rules but most of them can be explained during the game.

[@elink2k1]

This was my favorite top 10 ever. laughed out loud multiple times. I think you guys seriously were saying... if I want to enjoy playing a game, I'm not teaching this. I know if you were asked you would do it.

[@paulanderson7347]

Just want to say I appreciate your guys' work. You all have a great dynamic and have created something useful with your channel. Thanks for getting me into the hobby. Cheers.

[@Therisktaker3]

I believe certain genres of games are harder to teach than others like auction, bluffing, or hidden traitor. I was teaching for sale once and on the first turn someone bid all their money for the best card in the game and that pretty much screwed up the rest of the game for them (even after explaining the possible repercussions.). I agree Nyet was another hard sell. I taught that to people who were familiar with trick taking games and it fell flat because they couldn't understand that the victory rules kept changing each round.

[@avj317]

I would actually say that Shadows Over Camelot is one of those games where you can’t teach and walk away. You have to teach it and play with them. Maybe a future top ten?

[@stevenjudd2383]

Twilight Imperium. Totally agree.

[@allantaylor6032]

Bohnanza. I find new people have such a hard time grasping the idea of giving away cards. It seems to take them a full game of getting crushed to get the idea that they don't actually want all the cards in their hand. It's even worse when you have no cards in your hand and they say "I'll just wait til you get something to trade." Then it's their turn and they say "Wait I have to plant this card?" and then they go on to say "I shouldn't have to plant the card because I intended to trade it with some other player but they had nothing to trade so I'll just hold it till I can trade it." (Yes i have had someone try to do this even though we all explained what was going to happen if they didn't trade the card away before their turn). It's compounded by having to watch them closely to make sure they aren't changing the order of their cards or adding the new cards to the front of their hand or picking up cards they just traded or planting the wrong number of cards or forgetting to pick up cards or trying to trade cards with other players when it's neither players turn. I now that's a run-on sentence, but that's actually what teaching new players feels like. I've even had people accuse people of cheating because they tell other people their entire hand. Or that others are cheating because they don't give them their next (insert bean) when they promised to 4 turns ago. Even though it was explained when they made the deal that promises for future trades are not binding. I love the game and will teach new players, but prefer to have a table full of new people where I can just teach and watch.

[@stephenheninger8498]

I was ok with playing Robinson Crusoe with a noob on the first scenario but the future ones I would agree with Tom, for some games to get around this we do a sample game then a full tutor game where they have one person help which can suck but it helps the strategy part where the teacher is playing against the new player.

[@n90skid]

Cool. I love the music in the end!

[@d.b.4910]

Great top 10 list!

[@dorpth]

Do the opposite list: Games Not to Play with Pros You'd have to disqualify any kind of collectible card game, but after that: -Dominion: People who can predict with Chessmaster like precision how many moves exactly it will take for them to win -Any social deduction mafia game: Look, Mafia started out as a quick game to play at a large party for people who didn't want to bother with learning a structured party game. Since then they've tried to add more and more game to them (Werewolf, Resistance, etc) but it always runs into the same problem. There's always one or two people on the good team who can remember everything, lay out the exact optimal moves, and instantly deduce who the mafia are in X votes. At that point you either go along with everything they say and essentially let them play the game for you and everyone else, or you're the mafia/traitor and are voted out. A lot of deduction games try to get around this by adding arbitrary false positive mechanics (Dead of Winter) but those end up muddying the game up so much that it reaches a point where deduction is nearly impossible and you're just making blind guesses. I flat out refuse to play any social deduction game anymore because of this, with the only exception being Battlestar Galactica because the destiny deck does a decent job of masking Cylons, and at least there's something to do after you're discovered to be a Cylon. Holy crap is it painful though because EVERY casual group CONSTANTLY wants to play Secret Hitler right now. That game I like even less than Resistance. It's the social deduction game for "wacky quirky" people who have just moved on from playing Cards Against Humanity constantly.

[@davidpenry8963]

Fun video. I find myself teaching games quite frequently, and Race for the Galaxy is a favorite to play, so I've taught it a lot. It's definitely not an easy one to teach!

[@MindOfGenius]

38:26 I had a similar, yet different scenario; a serious tournament player was to my right in a 8-player game. Seeing pity on me for how noob I was, he skipped me and eliminated every other player around the table. He finished killing the person to the right, leaving just me and him. It's my turn. I calculate if I attack with everything, and what he could block. Yes! I would have him at -3 and win! "I attack with everything...I think that's game." "No...wait...I block with THIS, then this." He was blocking in unexpected ways I hadn't planed for! "I'm at 1 life." "Oh...Onyx Goblet." (Artifact. Tap to deal 1 damage to a player) He looked at me, then the card and I chuckled. He looked back to me, slowly put back together his deck...put it back in his box...walked out to where everyone else was waiting...and started tO WALK OUT THE DOOR and the host had to stop him.

[@michaelharder3055]

Best episode EVER! You guys are f..... hilarious.

[@Steve-L]

Age of Steam sounds like what Tom has also said about Modern Art. As he has said he doesn't like playing Modern Art because new players can do king making really easy by over bidding. This is true, but I will just play a 2nd game with them.

[@johnr8095]

Puerto Rico. Perhaps the game that newbies can throw off more than any other. I was actually the newbie a bunch of times and played against people who were experienced. And they will instantly tell you that the move you made just gave the game to someone else. Dont ever play this at a convention unless you are experienced and understand the strategy.

[@cat333pokemon]

For our first few games of Hanabi as a group, we allowed hinting to each other at what a good clue would be, and we gradually took away the ability to speak.

[@BoardAllTheTime]

I want Zee's shirt so damn bad.

[@Mr_Jumbles]

Levels of MTG play: 1. Learning the rules. 2. Learning the keywords. 3. Learning how to play a deck. 4. Learning a strategy to play. 5. Learning a meta. 6. Learning how to counter a meta. 7. Learning ALL the metas. 8. Learning how to counter ALL the metas. 9. Learning how to make a side deck so you can counter the meta of whatever is your metas counter. 10. Learning when to give up and just use some the pre made meta pro deck that 95% of everyone else is also using that season.

[@nnk2202]

Mr_Jumbles 11.Learn to quit

[@Sgrand80]

I love the game but you forgot to do step 10 you need to use your life savings.

[@AliciaDarky]

I really like Ghost Stories. We won on our second game, but because my brother and I are "experienced" in a way (strategic videogames and stuff). Although, my mom didn't understand it that much and was asking what to do next. If we play it more, I'm sure she'll get used to it. A thing my brother noticed and it bothers me as well is that it seems lika a player will always be stuck at the tile that makes ghost go back one space at a certain point of the game when things get out of control. I don't like that so much, but it might have been that we have to "get good".

[@mightymatt01]

Challenge Accepted Vassel. I will intentionally not learn Race for the Galaxy, play you at dice tower con and make it competitive. Likely won't win, but will be competitive also if we play a couple of times might just win

[@rikhavok]

Dead of Winter - Playing with a new player. We simply use the hard mode of the mission and no traitor. The rules say that you cannot tell people what your secret mission is. But you can say...Did you get your mission yet? Yes... it’s still a weird concept to understand that the secret mission needs to be fulfilled, but this way, you can simply ask the player once every couple of turns if he is on track for his secret objective. Robison Crusoe - One of my favorite games of all time. Haha. I’ve always wanted to play Cosmic Encounter with you, Tom, as it IS my favorite game of all time. So now I know two games we will have to play. Weird! I didn’t notice that this video is 2 years old? Why did it come up in my stream as a new Video?

[@Overglock]

Playing Resistance with a bunch of newbies, the girl next to me decided she wouldn't be a very good spy. So the cards are dealt out, we all look at our roles, then she places her card face-down, slowly reaches over to my card, looks at it, then swaps her card with mine. I just stared in awe and said "Are you serious?" "It's fine, don't worry," she said. I then had to explain to her how integral to the game it is that we DO NOT know what those cards are and how doing what she did just screwed over that game. Thankfully, Resistance games are very quick and you can start again very easily, but I was just flabbergasted at how she just casually gave away her spy card and didn't think it would affect the game at all.

[@wroot_lt]

Overglock haha, i'm imagining that scene very vividly :D

[@grahammurphy7882]

Overglock my newbie friend was a good guy and failed a mission whilst on it!! I was why? She said and I quote "I didn't want people to know I was a good guy" haha

[@Overglock]

Graham Murphy We stressed several times to the group "IF YOU ARE A GOOD GUY, DO NOT EVER PLAY THE FAILURE CARD."

[@grahammurphy7882]

Haha tell me about it, me and my mate (who played it before) were the spys. We just looked at each other and went "nope this is not the game for this crowd" and got jenga out 😧😧

[@Fanatikk9]

I feel ya! We actually played this game for the first time so we were all noobs BUT my friend did something so INSANELY stupid, I could barely contain myself. She was a spy, along with me and another player. We were down to the 4th mission where two fails were needed to fail the mission. We, the spies, win the game if this is a failure. Well, her and the other spy in our group were picked for the team and the mission was a go! We were going to win, EXCEPT... she picked SUCCESS!!! Not only did she screw up, but I had to keep my cool and not yell cause now we had to make the last mission fail to win. We end up winning and I'm like "we could have won this already, why did you pick success on the 4th mission?!?!?!". She replies, "We still won, quit complaining!" uggghh

[@dorpth]

I never understood why Pandemic, Small World, and Catan were considered gateway games. They are... not simple and easy to someone who has only played Hasbro games up until that point.

[@ceasarsoldier5107]

The cover of Twilight Imperium just screams "Try me out!" What a great collage of artworks

[@Arrowstorm122]

I don't find Inis and Fury of Dracula too bad to play with new people, personally. Surprised nobody mentioned Kemet though.

[@jacobjackson9834]

Arcadia Quest. Explaining so many different hero powers, items, and the fact that the game is both PvP and PvE? Oh man...

[@farmerbob42]

In late but Race for the Galaxy, I would teach it but so often people say 'yeah yeah lets just start, and I'll learn' .... no really, you need to know some things, 'nah!' ... 5 mins in and they have no idea whats going on..

[@kylejacobs1007]

I agree, I love cosmic and I enjoy teaching it. But I'm also slightly disappointed when there is a new player because I love playing with more fun/complex variants.

[@cybergecko6472]

I personally like teaching games I’m just not the best at it. I personally would prefer playing games like Blood Bowl or Scythe with people that have already. Because if not they will loose against a experienced player

[@Njald]

I love that as soon as I saw the topic, I thought of like half the games they put on their lists.

[@ltlpayne]

Would love to see an updated version of this list including Mike and Chris. My top game would be Root

[@kingblue2646]

I think BSG is fine if you don't have to use the sympathiser. I think the problem is the card fundamentally ruins the hidden traitor aspect to it, because it introduces a deliberate metagame of the humans sabotaging themselves so that they won't have a second Cylon. The Cylon Leader was a much better workaround to an inconvenient number of players, even if it was only really made interesting by the mechanics introduced in Daybreak. It's just not worth playing with 4 or 6 players. Might as well do Homeland or something in that situation.

[@monoludico6166]

I'm surprised they haven't included living card games (e.g. Star Wars, Lord of the Rings or Android Netrunner). I feel LCGs are the ephitome of the "never play with newbies" category. Throughout, I absolutely agree with Race for the Galaxy, it'd be my number one. Other games that I'll likely regret to teach to newbies are the ones that include hidden-but-relevant-for-others information, as secret goals/identities.

[@tzgardner]

I agree. My number 1 game would be the old Star Wars CCG. There is just too much to teach and learn from games like these.

[@Jighm]

I don't like playing Battlestar Galactica with NOOBS for the same reason, but more so because I can't play the expansions with them. I've never played this game with others using the expansions even though I have them all. There is ALWAYS a new person at the table.

[@Naru-Maki]

I agree about Hanabi. 😅

[@jamesgoode2408]

Been away from the channel awhile. Tom became a leprechaun, and production has improved! Great job guys.

[@tehbublitz]

Mottainai....So hard to teach.

[@saint1930]

I HATE playing Dominion with newbies. I usually know what my next move is going to be long before it's my turn. I once played a 4 player game that took 1.5 hours because 2 of them were new. I wanted to claw my eyeballs out.

[@rahulc]

I considered Hanabi here but it's fairly quick and people learn fast, so I can accept that first bad game or two.

[@Yohnface]

I expected Terra Mystica somewhere tbh. Although it's not terrible to teach, I tend to spend more time thinking about and helping my opponent than myself.

[@jbundtrock]

interesting about Dominion, since guys recommend that game to everyone in game stores.

[@evergreen_monster]

One of the best lists from you guys, I agree with most your picks, especially your top 3. I only missed Alchemists up there. A huge ordeal to teach that game, it's not only a Deduction game (ala Zee's 2 pick) but a pretty hefty Worker Placement game on top of it. And then the last round enters play and minds are blown. Such a great game though...

[@TheAllroth]

I'm in a very weird position when it comes to Hanabi. Partly I completely agree that it's extremely frustrating when someone new makes a mistake, but on the other hand I LOVE to experience the moment when the game just clicks for them and they suddenly understand the clues thier co-players are giving each other. That final part totally accounts for the annoying bit and makes me actively want to teach this to new people, that I think will get it, that is.

[@ninajiron5488]

Sometimes I think I watch you all because, Zee, you absolutely crack me up! Thank you! Oh, and by the way, played Hanabi for the first time a few days ago...I get what you mean. I frustrated my kids so much (they have only played once)...we were all laughing so hard!

[@Woodclaw]

It's funny that Zee mentioned The Resistance, because I just happened to finish a series of three encounters with grade school kids (9-10 years old) and we taught them how to play various games and they just loved to play Avalon and The Resistance a lot.

[@freddonoso2299]

Dominion? Wth? That's one of our go to games for noobs. I guess you guys had different experiences, either way.... appreciate the video!

[@mrtompso]

Power grid. Just because it's so painful and it can ruin someone else's strategy and also them not getting that they have to be really committed to playing a 2-3 hour game. Plus the time it takes to explain and having to re-explain.

[@davidtroutman9906]

Sam's comments about Shadows reminds me of the "Tales of" story where the traitor was the sweet little grandma.

[@Urutsini]

The biggest reason I want to play BattleCON with experienced players because noobs just don't get why this is my favourite game. They can't see how little luck there is in the game once you are familiar with the cards and aware of what is in the opponent's hand and can predict what your opponent is going to play and conversely hide your intentions. It becomes an intense battle of wits. Noobs simply just don't *get* the game. Unlike Tom though, I find the mechanics of the game easy to teach.

[@Straddllw]

I got to play Twilight Imperium 4 for the first time yesterday at 6 players. We had 4 new players and 2 people who have played TI3 before but never TI4. We played a short game of 10 points - we've all read up on the rules beforehand, it only took 7 and a quarter hours. Much shorter than the 12 hours I was expecting. Fantastic game and experience. It just skyrocketed into my top 3 games. The rules felt quite easy to grasp actually.

[@lexijdavies]

I demonstrate games in shops and at conventions. A lot of the people that I have come to the stall are noobs. A game that people struggle to understand is Mysterium, mainly when they play as the ghost and what they can do with the ravens and clairvoyance track. I also do not like demonstrating Story Cubes or Story Worlds. This is where you roll 6 dice that have 6 different images on them. With the images that come up, you make a story, either alone or alternatively with the people with you. People do not understand that there is no clear end to this and no real winner. Neuroshima Hex is complex to understand, even for those who have played similar games. My boyfriend spend countless hours teaching Fury of Dracula at UK Games Expo June 2016. He knows how hard it is to demonstrate this to new people, especially day and night phases. MTG is a card game which you should only play with people who know what drafting is. Milling through the deck is something that people struggle to grasp the concept of. When I was a noob playing Puerto Rico, the same thing happened to me as what was described. I took my turn, which seemed to be a very valuable turn in my opinion but it made the next players' turn even more valuable, i.e. double the value of points or resources. Hanabi is such an annoying game. If you forget what clues were given to you then you end up discarding cards that you should really keep because its the only one of that number and color or the last one left in the game.

[@Tennethums1]

All games are a real beast to teach other people (especially noobs!) if you make the biggest mistake possible; overload them with rules/input from everyone in the group. Pick ONE person to explain the rules and let that ONE person speak.

[@Tennethums1]

And I would add to my post (after seeing the Shadows Over Camelot commentary) explain games in this way; background (lore, story behind the game), rules and then basic STRATEGY.

[@kustomkure]

For our group that game is INIS

[@candide1772]

Love the Stranger in a Strange Land reference from Sam on Dead of Winter.

[@lopan9748]

Matthew Howell Hell yeah! I thought the same thing. Thou art God.

[@OrcDragon65]

I have always been happy to teach Magic and play with Noobs, there is so much variety that I think it's rewarding to see someone Get It. Deck Choice can eliminate the kind of issues you were talking about.

[@jonydude]

Top 10 list idea: "Games we love that definitely are not for everyone" This is a similar vibe to top ten underrated games, only this is for games where you are not only aware that it isn't popular, but completely understand why.

[@joshuascott5814]

Similar to Twilight Struggle, War of the Ring (my favorite game because I’m a huge Tolkien fan) has several cards that if your opponent doesn’t know they exist, they can totally up-end their whole strategy. I kind of addressed this by making a cheat sheet for all the super powerful cards so anyone can reference it to see what pitfalls might be ahead of them.

[@cthulwho8197]

There's a similar problem to Puerto Rico in drafting games where a newb can pass cards on that they really shouldn't pass on. So the person after them can benefit hugely.

[@AnishChari]

Yes Puerto Rico is awful with New Players. Not Shipping when you should or vice versa is game breaking.

[@gavincramblet3675]

Yeah, when Tom said "Well, I could say this of all Level 99 games..." my first thought was Millennium Blades. While it's still fun with a new player, you pretty much have to play the introductory tournament, which limits the number of strategies experienced players can pull out with a third deck building phase. Plus it is rather rules heavy. That said, I do like how they have rules variants that specifically help newer people learn (like giving them an awesome accessory a the start.)

[@yabbaguy]

Huge contract bridge fan, I play at duplicate games in local clubs (yes, bridge clubs are a thing). I'm almost 25, which makes me one of the youngest players at the club every time I go. Bridge is the most intellectual game that can be played with a deck of cards. But start at 31:10 - Tom, you're right. We're not stuck with only a deck of cards when it comes to gaming options. I think this great game is going to begin a sudden decline very soon. It just isn't one of the biggest shows in town anymore.

[@alicemoore2036]

yabbaguy very sad

[@VinegarAndSaltedFries]

I really don't find the hard difficulty on Neuroshima hex that tough. Maybe it's because I learned on it. I just wish they'd update it.

[@paulnorthey6712]

Very funny, nice sense of good natured banter as always. Have you TOP TEN GAMES THAT ARE KILLED BY THE APP? For example Through the Ages, or Lords of Waterdeep, or Eldrich Horror. I play a lot of Pandemic on the app.