Top 10 Games that Should Have Been an Email

[@unrealed]

You guys should do a "Top 10 Games You Need To Be In The Mood For" like what Zee mentions at 20:05. Their are several games like that that CAN be great but are really setting/mood dependent

[@winstonhammonds3314]

Mike is absolutely right about there always being one teacher who feels the need to respond to everything, constantly sharing when everyone just wants to leave.

[@jacobramirez5974]

I LOVE long games! This video was great. It had the opposite effect on me - I will definitely look into these games.

[@Alluvian567]

We played a 6 hour game of RoboRally once, we had four boards 2x2 and a floating fifth board above it with teleports up there and where the pits would drop you to the lower boards. It was also 8 player. Everyone was drunk and rowdy and it was honestly a blast, but one of those things you do once, enjoy it, and move on. This was also very early in the boardgame hobby for all involved, so we were much more forgiving of quirkyness. It was also the first time all these people met in person after having known each other in an mmo for a few years, so it had a lot of things that made it special.

[@IamtheWV17]

I have a similar experience with a lengthy game of roborally at a bucks weekend... alcohol was flowing, and guys hadn't seen eachother in a while.

[@gbank44]

Has there ever been a top ten on the opposite of this: Games that end too soon? Or games that benefit from expanded player counts? These are my favorite things on all of the internet 🤣

[@Shad0wSix]

I agree that Dice Tower should make a Top 10 Games that End Too Soon

[@JasperHayward]

Base Wingspan would be on that list for me

[@TheRatedOniChannel]

King of Tokyo will end up being in the top 3 at least.

[@Lex_Koncord]

Ruins of Arnak has this problem for me

[@CosmicTavern]

Great idea for a list!

[@coasterfreakrob]

A little surprised Villainous isn't mentioned anywhere. My wife and I enjoy the game, but only with two or maybe three players. One time we played it with four, and on top of the way it naturally gets longer with more players, one of the other players had extreme AP, and the game took us over 3.5 hours to finish, which is way too long for that game. I actually ended up not playing optimally and not actively thwarting anybody else's progress with the Fate cards just so that the game would end.

[@blakekaveny]

Zee hasn't played the game and Tom probably doesn't play it enough. But yes I agree . I love the game and all the versions

[@natew.7951]

Yeah, that's literally 90% of my knowledge of the game based on discussions on board game Facebook and Reddit. I know it has Disney characters and it's ridiculously long. Like, I'm pretty sure every time I've seen the game mentioned the length is also mentioned.

[@jonsparks3152]

Such a good point. I love the idea of villainous but man it looks like it should be 45 minutes and instead it is 2 hours! I am almost to the point where I refuse to play it. It would be a great Asych game on BGA because I wouldn’t feel the length as much.

[@bigd5773]

I played it once and only once for this very reason. For the target audience i think it should be about 45-60 minutes. It took hours! My kids played it a couple more times but now it’s been a couple years since they brought it out.

[@ralelunar]

I was surprised by how tedious Villainous plays, for a game that I expected to be family-weight. I think that the issue is the fate deck. It's annoying to play with but it's necessary to use, or else the game is basically solitaire for two hours.

[@jeremiahhammer2282]

As a solo player, game length is a complete non issue with me. In fact, I prefer longer games that I’m able to leave out on the table and play through a scenario or two. I also prefer narrative/legacy style games, so it’s interesting to see you guys’ takes on these games. Cheers, love you Dice Tower! ❤️🙏🏼❤️

[@griffglowen5555]

Discrete is the correct word for playing a game in a single separate session - it’s like the opposite of continuous. Discreet (pronounced the same) means hidden

[@ciderbandit2909]

Absolutely this

[@Skarpo89]

Indeed, surprised at Tom as it's a branch of Mathematics too and he loves that and has thought Maths for many years I think. Like natural numbers are discrete but real numbers and continuous

[@andrewellis712]

Wouldn’t it make more sense to say one continuous session? If it were multiple sessions each would then be discrete

[@lolaldanee2743]

Lol, I had no idea what this list was all about before watching the Introduction. Thanks for the explanation haha

[@TheNathanlockhart]

To Zee's comment that Risk just needs a different end game - there is a version that includes "missions". For example, conquer Europe and South America and you win. Each player gets their own secret objective. It's much faster and much better.

[@jonsparks3152]

I liked Castle Risk better growing up because if you defeated their castle region they were done and everything else came off the board.

[@jasonnewell7036]

Oh, that opening speech about teacher meetings... that was too real. I got painful flashbacks. My staff meeting were always after I had a full day teaching, on for every period and often a playground duty, so I was exhausted. Our full staff meetings were in the school library and they would have these high-backed, plush chairs at the back of the meeting space. I always tried to get there early and grab one of these chairs, because it made things less obvious for when I inevitably fell asleep. Not if, when. But the reference to "that one teacher who has an opinion on everything"... shudder.

[@koalabrownie]

I think another thing about progression in video games is that games often have overlapping rewards. Yes you're waiting to level up, but in the mean time, you find some new gear- or a new crafting recipe. Some reward. That's one thing in civilization, the one more turn phenomenon is often attributed to the fact that the player is constantly getting rewarded as something gets built, or a tile is improved, or research is found, etcetera.

[@junkjunk81]

Good point. This happens in some campaign board games, too. Tom mentioned Gloomhaven, saying you level up every 3-4 scenarios. While that is true, you also get smaller improvements after every game because you can buy equipment and card enhancements. So you always feel like you have something new to play with, even if it is just a new pair of boots or a move card that now let's you jump.

[@warblefly81]

My top game not mentioned was Mice & Mystics. If you play as an adult, the mechanisms aren’t quite there to make it fun enough for the time. However, playing with kids, the game lasts too long for the average kid’s attention span. The first scenario is like 1.5-2 hrs long after reading like a 10 minute story. I love the game, and think it could be great for kids if it was shortened.

[@eesef]

This list should have been an email. Just kidding!! Love the Dice Tower and will watch this video many times like I do with most of their content. 😁

[@Freethedice]

I love the videos with Mike, Zee and Tom. I hope you guys are still doing them!

[@ThaGamingMisfit]

The first entry hit the nail already, Trickerion. My first play took 5 hours... it was a really bad experience. I wanted to like it but I never gave it a chance ever again. When I saw this played on events or weekends, it always took like the whole day.

[@daniellebackus819]

I adore Bohnanza, and I don’t really feel like it goes that long. The first time through the deck is a little long, but the second and third go crazy fast.

[@BlitzkriegBryce]

I'll have to give it another shot, played it once with a group and we all tapped out before it was over. We even were debating if we were playing it wrong since it was dragging on and no one was enjoying it much but I hear a lot of people either like it or outgrew it so it's got to be better than what I experienced.

[@schuechen]

@@BlitzkriegBryce I think the key to a good round of Bohnanza is a lot of wild bartering. If everyone just does the best he can with what he has, it's kind of boring. But when people start wheeling and dealing and promising stuff they don't know, if they can ever keep them, that's where the fun starts

[@lioneart19]

A list of games that are long but would lose something if shortened would be nice too. Games like Twilight Imperium, that give an experience that can't be shortened. Another interesting list, based on Zee's 8 in this list, is of "the cover lied to me".

[@Ian-R-Wilz]

This just popped up across my feed and as a teacher I completely agree with everything they said about teacher meetings. Especially the comment about a teacher who always needs to comment/clarify EVERYTHING even when it was very clearly explained.

[@jeffreyschon]

Zee, I could listen to your sarcastic banter all day. You are hilarious, several legitimate lol's were had here.

[@Raventhecrow]

Thanks for the video! Do "Top 10 Houserules" sometime, i Bet it would be interesting.

[@joker718]

Top 10 Analysis Paralysis inducing games has to be a thing :) Great list BTW.

[@rogerx1258]

I have to say "people who run meetings" by tom at 9:13 was a gem and went very underappreciated... so here it is. :)

[@ralelunar]

I've completely removed the campaign elements from Abomination. I know that's what Plaid Hat is best known for, but I think that this method helps shorten the game by a lot. Now instead, the first half of the game can be solely focused on the worker placement, so it doesn't feel like a slog once you're trying to bring your monster to life.

[@bibleboardgames]

I think Diplomacy turned me off to playing games with others for many years. Pandemic brought me back. Thanks for the video guys!

[@gradybolte8077]

I 100% agree with Mike about Wild: Serengeti. I've seen some discussions on BGG that people have eliminated one round and it made the game much better. However, if you end up coming up with a shorter variant that you like, I would love to hear about it.

[@Keyh]

100% agree with Time Stories. It was something my wife and I LOVED. But after so many of them, the "Go back and do everything we did before and hope our dice rolls are better."

[@DreamReaver]

I totally agree about Fury of Dracula. I like it and I want to play it more, but it is way too long and has too many rules. I played a full 5 player game, I was Dracula and I just decided to die because everybody lost their interest and we were still a long way from the end.

[@dancondonjones]

5 hours of my life I’ll never get back. Never again.

[@danielbuday1895]

Tom looks like an Amish blackjack dealer.

[@ericmeyer3520]

Kung Lao is the Mortal Kombat character you were thinking, Zee!

[@blacksheep9950]

The Order Of The Stick board game was so long that the first expansion was literally called The Shortening.

[@chauveet]

My choice would absolutely be Dungeon Crusade. The Kickstarter game that took several years to get to backers, who were quite surprised to find out that a full game takes between 12 and 15 hours. It was billed as a three to four hour experience

[@teslatwain6848]

43:00 I love when designers give that option- Colab's designer did that- he worked with playtesters to develop an "express" version to go in the original version's rule book from the very first printing so players can choose to play a shorter or a longer version.

[@estherchung82]

Wow that Dice Tower Theme Song Remix in the beginning, that was so fun!! Who does your music for you? That was the best KZbin channel theme song ever!

[@jujulautre]

I am wondering if the problem with Bohnanza isn't that the English editions (or at least, most of them) have additional beans, which make the bean deck 50% bigger than other versions.

[@TheNathanlockhart]

I've had people convince me I was winning by a mile and caused me to end games, which I then lost due to hidden or end game scoring or whatever. I always keep my foot on the gas now even if people think I'm winning by 200 points.

[@PatrickWDunne]

Arkham Horror comes to mind. That game always takes all night to complete.

[@skipmcilvaine]

Trickerion is my absolute favorite game ever. Sad to see people don't like it. 😢

[@skipmcilvaine]

Also, there is a short version included in the box.

[@jasonc2784]

I really enjoyed this list. Thank you. I had originally hoped it was games that could be played by email because I'm looking for a good game other than chess where a few turns a day can be played. I wholeheartedly agree with the choices that I've played. I wondered why I didn't bring these games out anymore. Now I understand my gut reasonings.

[@ambiej123]

If you don’t have a board game arena membership, consider getting one (even the free membership). they have 3 game play options, once of which is called “turn based”, which means you play a turn, leave, opponent plays, leaves, etc. your turn length can typically be 1-2 days. I believe they have suggested games for turn based games, but the option is there for ALL games.

[@charlesbarthel4329]

I hadn't thought about it until you mentioned it but 7th Continent was the perfect pick for this one. My copy continues to collect dust because the game length (and game reset time) are totally wrong for a trial and error type exploration game.

[@bookertexas-ranger2059]

7th continent would be my number one on "games which look like bart simpson swimming when the box is turned on its side" list

[@lihninor]

"I hate long meetings that could have been an email" Takes 90 minutes to list 10 games.

[@lioneart19]

More like 30 games because it's three lists.

[@dilatedbeholder3865]

I hate it when Battlestar Galactica gets chewed out for being too long. Those that love the game know that the game's length is a part of what makes it so epic. It's in the same bracket as Twilight Imperium in that to cut it down would take away from the game itself.

[@TorIverWilhelmsen]

The Game of Thrones board game is basically a slightly shorter Diplomacy. And if you get the expansion you can even vary the player count without messing up the balance!

[@timcowley2391]

I was excited to play Fury of Dracula and I had the same issues as Mike. I couldn't wait for it to end after the second hour.

[@jonathangillies6531]

Completely feel you on the DC deckbuilding game, it just goes on and on…

[@CubReporterK]

I love DC but the more players you have, the more grinding happens. Most deck builders have that issue simply because it takes longer to get a good deck built. Crisis and Watchmen are the longest. There are two ways to shorten the game, use fewer supervillains and/or use a smaller main deck. I mixed most of the sets and use a deck of 100 (4 locations and 24 of each other kind) and about 5-8 supervillains. Rivals is 2 player and plays very fast. It's a very portable game, and a great game to get new players onto the mechanics.

[@davefuller634]

Tainted Grail....getting food to travel around the board added way too much time to the game.

[@desireehagen8281]

I read the classic Dracula… the game must be an exact reenactment of the book. It’s an unreasonably long book and Dracula really does just do his weird tremor alive again and then completely disappear, blarg! 😂

[@dancondonjones]

Looking at my stats, Bohnanza is shorter with more players. 4 players: 80 minutes 5 players: 65 minutes 6 players: 54 minutes. I’m curious to know what length Tom is finding too long.

[@zungagames]

I'm with Mike. I played half a game of FOD and it now sets on my shelf.

[@brianreising3293]

Next: Top 10 Emails That Should Have Been a Game?

[@EarthenGames]

Dang I love a good, long game of Risk. I know there are other great territory games out there with streamlined mechanics, but there’s just something about classic Risk with a full group of players. Hours of battle, politics/ alliances, and other tactics with friends. I understand the luck factors aren’t for everyone, but I personally love a good dice roll

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

This title confused the hell out of me pre viewing! :P

[@user-do8rb6gw5j]

Spartacus is an EVENT game - like Twilight Imperium. That's how it's seen in our group. There's days we meet up to play more than one game. There's days we meet up to play ONE "event" game. Beer helps too.

[@happygolucky1184]

Saving 7th Continent - rather than losing the map you've created, just take a few digital photos of your map layout when stopping and gather up the cards up in whatever order will ease setting the map back up when you resume the game.

[@TheBanimal]

I have played Roborally a dozen times, most of the time while drinking and I have only finished 2 games of it ever. I adore that game still. Spartacus blood and sand is an amazing game! My friends and I love it, we always play the short rules after trying the full rules once.

[@jeffwmoore]

My #1 game for this list would have to be, "Firefly: The Board Game."

[@LaserTagLeague]

I know we’re in the minority but my brother and I could play Firefly for hours and not even have a goal established.

[@rabidpickle]

Great video, thank you! The written-out lists at the very end are from the wrong top 10.

[@nickholcomb9531]

I prefer Catan with 5 over 4. The extra building phase makes it go faster.

[@foxbear60]

I've played DC Deckbuilder with friends who said it takes too long. They are awesome friends, ut they're far more focused on engine building than winning. I went straight for the villain repeatedly and dominated the final score. Once you have enough cards to facilitate taking out the first boss, the bosses then cushion the rest of your deck with strong abilities. Other players will catch on quickly and also start running down bosses. I feel it's way easier to force an ending for than something like Dominion that heavily depends on what other players are doing.

[@sprEEEzy]

My Top 1: Terraforming Mars.

[@tzgardner]

10. Munchkin 9. 7th Continent 8. Terraforming Mars 7. Meeples & Monsters 6. Paladins of the West Kingdom 5. Viscounts of the West Kingdom 4. Viticulture 3. Xia (4 or 5 players) 2. Ark Nova 1. Sentinels of the Multiverse (Oblivaeon mode)

[@freeheeler00]

Play Viticulture Solo. There is never ENOUGH time!

[@mbsisktb9045]

Thank you for saying the colonists I thought that. It was a very interesting game for me but it was so long and so thinky I almost fell asleep and had my next 3 turns planned out.

[@danieldeisinger640]

I live in the same city as Fantasy Flight Games, and go to their HQ to play games - and yeah, so many of their games are so long.

[@benjaminspears8488]

I would add Paperback to this list. I love the game, but the first several turns are tedious until you can gain enough cards to create a variety of words. And then the game lasts a little too long, sometimes with it being impossible to build words with a high enough letter count. I would love to see a streamlined rule set so that the game can be played in under an hour. Maybe have the players start with money to purchase 3-4 cards to add to their deck right away?

[@steveg9939]

Nice Top 10! The first game I thought of when starting the video was Mike’s number 1 game! I rarely play the full game. And hooray for…beans?

[@jaybear7272]

Three hours to play Nemo’s War, Mike? I don’t think I’ve ever taken more than 2 even when learning the game. I’d put Gaia Project on this list. Really fun game, but would be amazing if the game were a round or two shorter and setup were a bit quicker.

[@縞鰺-o3c]

I actually do NOT want Unfathomable to be shorter. I love it the way it is. Well: I still do love Battlestar Galactica. The thematic feeling needs that time for me personally, which is why BSG is still one of my favorite game and no other social deduction / hidden traitor game came close for me. From expansions I love the Pegasus board and the Cylon Fleet board. (The latter one being almost required since without that early-reveal cylons have too few options for such a long game to remain interesting for them.)

[@natew.7951]

Clue: the Great Museum Caper is also an egregiously long hidden movement game.

[@scottelam3726]

I too like Bohnanza, but I wonder why sometimes I pass it by and I think unconsciously, I agree that it's too long by a few rounds. Thanks for pointing that out! As for Diplomacy, I've never played in person.... but it's super fun via email with WEEKLY turns.

[@norspider5449]

I think the existence of Mage Wars: Academy proves that Mage Wars belongs on this list.

[@Fuzzylogicpro]

I watched this video and then the KZbin algorithm started recommending bean-related content.

[@InfernoJo]

Just to bring to your attention because only 1 comment seemed to highlight it: The outtro has a double-take, first one is from previous top ten (I believe is top 10 games that should be on bgg top 10), then plays the correct outtro. Not sure if fixing it is possible now.

[@dblevins343]

It's funny, FFG clearly cared about game length when designing their miniature games. Armada is the oldest and it shows it. It's their slowest paced game. Then they made X-Wing. It literally has an 1hr and 15min time limit. It's the shortest plat time miniature game I know of. Then they have Legion, it's short for a ground based game. They did great on these.

[@natew.7951]

Hey Tom, online games of Risk are timed. If you watch the world championships, you'll not only see a higher degree of skill than you would expect, but also almost no games longer than 60 minutes. I'm just mentioning it because the majority of the Risk player base in this era would find your comments way out of date. Now, the computer does all the busy work (rolling the dice, removing casualties) so that helps a ton of course.

[@davidgotteri]

I still have my first edition (Games Workshop UK) edition of The Fury Of Dracula. It never goes on too long!

[@sealtyk]

I find that I'm in the minority when it comes to game length. When I lay out a game I have 0 plans to play more than 1 game or multiple different games. The chosen game for the evening is the only game of the evening so 3+ hour games don't bother me.

[@Puddleford]

We had a lot of fun years ago with LOTR Risk. I still own both versions and they are both a nice amount of play time because the game ends when the ring enters Mordor.

[@Wonderflonium]

Entertaining list! I completely agree that 7th Continent is too long

[@santeeblack3580]

Now it's gonna be top10 games over too fast...

[@boboy1000]

In some cases I think the game is trying to mimic the source material in that the length was one of the things people liked about it, like Fallout which is a huge world video game and The Name of the Rose which is a very long book.

[@Einbert_Alstein_24]

This list should have been an email.

[@GamingWithGeo]

As far as Fury of Dracula goes, I've loved the game ever since picking up the 2nd edition at least a decade ago. Nowadays I just play the digital version as a full game can be played in around a half hour or so.

[@alwaysardent1125]

Dracula is an annual mood game for me and a few people from the office and friends every october

[@nurseruben5431]

I absolutely loved this top 10! Well done!

[@mychalanaya8163]

discreet - prudent, subtle, unnoticed discrete - individually distinct, separate

[@TheRASDEL83]

Completely agree with Fury of Dracula. The game is VERY thematic but it is so freaking long for what it is! We need a "Dracula Fast and Furious"... with Vin Diesel and Dwayne Johnson in the cover, ok... maybe not that 😂 Risk, I can cut it some slack because it is a very old game and my first game with "minis" technically 🤣 I kind of need "Quest for el Dorado" the dice game now 😳 1:18:20 Me shouting "KUNG LAO!" at the screen 🤣

[@curtislinden9297]

were the lists at the end supposed to be Tom, Mike and Zee's list from the video? 1:29:01

[@emmalind4484]

Speaking about too long games, one game that is too short: Mission Red Planet

[@DarthPizza777]

id love to hear what Sam would say about some of their pics!! 😅😅

[@dreadknot69]

I once played a 5.5 hour 2-player game of Villainous. It was just back and forth and we had each others Fate pile down to exactly what was needed to stop them from winning and then recycling those cards over and over. Neither of us wanted to let the other win so it was brutal. :) Fun, but looooong. I will never play it 2-player again.

[@Poiuytrew.Q]

Top 10 games that should have been a voicemail sent as a text message.

[@nickthequick78._.]

How did nobody say campaign for North Africa

[@patricksullivan6988]

In Mike's defense, "discrete" works, though other words might be better. Tom, you were mistaking "discrete" for "discreet". While homophones, they are two distinct words.

[@gordo6908]

surprised to see mention of runebound 2nd ed, feels buried among the modern adventure games. did you try any of the variants which shortened length and encouraged progress such as the quest variant from 2011 realms of terrinoth and health upgrades limiting encounter options (eg with one health upgrade the player cannot challenge greens, with two the player cannot challenge yellows, etc)

[@fearanarchy]

48:00 @Tom- Chris Anderson made an 18 card Diplomacy-feeling game called Monarch of Elwic. This is EXACTLY what you are asking for. 4-9 players.

[@Revtroz]

I can’t find any references to this game anywhere but I desperately want to try it. Can you post a link?

[@jonsparks3152]

I am interested too! Please tag me.

[@fearanarchy]

@@jonsparks3152 kzbin.info/www/bejne/b3OUlZZ5Zq52jcU

[@fearanarchy]

@@Revtroz kzbin.info/www/bejne/b3OUlZZ5Zq52jcU

[@sergiosaavedra404]

This Video should have been an Email... XD... Naaaah very good video, different, funny content :D

[@Enfant_Feu]

55:08 gotta love Zee throat singing

[@petercsm5769]

Before watching the video I give a thumbs up for the title of this list and now one minute into the video I'd give another thumbs up about hating meetings. 89 minutes to go and I'm already outta thumbs. Excellent work!

[@FunkyTao72]

The final lists in the outro are from another video.